Gay marriage

[J70]

There is a degree of bullying on this thread, subtle as it may be.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how ridiculous others consider it to be.  It is the joy of anonymous posting FFS.

Hold on a minute there. No one is captive here. No one is being forced to post or read the discussion. But if you offer up your opinion in a public forum like this you are not entitled to not have it challenged. If challenges to your opinions upset you, then don't post them.

Slow down there!! Where have I said challenging an opinion is wrong?  The past 6/7 posts on this thread sum up exactly what way the debate shoud progress, it is the sniping at other posters for their beliefs/views without proper debate that annoys me.

Well I'm not sure what you're referring to then as the overall tone of this discussion has been pretty mild.

[Eamonnca1]

If we take God out of the equation, do we believe in nature? Nature obviously designed children to be created by the coming together of a man and a woman, not a man and another man of woman and another woman.

Glad you brought that up. Homosexual behaviour is well documented in nature in hundreds of species. Same sex couples raising offspring has also been observed.

Next question.

[Oraisteach]

I hate to join the game so late in the second half, especially a game with so many layers—gay marriage, gay adoption, healthcare coverage issues.

Still, maybe somebody can clear things up a bit for me.  If a healthcare plan provides coverage for contraception and abortion, and a Catholic institution is providing that plan, where's the dilemma.  Can't that church have faith that its Catholic members will simply not avail themselves of those services, and instead will adhere to the tenets of that church?

[J70]

I hate to join the game so late in the second half, especially a game with so many layers—gay marriage, gay adoption, healthcare coverage issues.

Still, maybe somebody can clear things up a bit for me.  If a healthcare plan provides coverage for contraception and abortion, and a Catholic institution is providing that plan, where's the dilemma.  Can't that church have faith that its Catholic members will simply not avail themselves of those services, and instead will adhere to the tenets of that church?

True. Healthcare coverage is compensation for work. Do they stop employees spending the wage part of their compensation on those things?

[fitzroyalty]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

On what grounds do you put gays in the same bracket as alcoholics and abusers?

In any case there is no law against alcoholics or violent people from having children.

It was not me that brought alcoholics/abusers into discussion but another poster...

Influences that would be potentially missing through the  lack of one sex in this case can be compensated in various other ways  e.g. help from family members, teachers, sports coaches etc.

Doesn't wash with me.

So what about single-parent families where either the mother or father is missing completely (death, out of life completely etc.) does the same apply?

That is a variable of which you can have no control over, which is totally different from adoption. I hardly see it ideal as approving a same-sex adoption on the basis that Uncle Jimmy will take care of the 'daddy stuff' and Coach Carter will do his bit regards sports, physical exercise etc. Ideally an adopted child should not have to look elsewhere from their home for these missing influences.

Ideally you need a father figure and a mother figure. I don't care what anyone says, that is the ideal scenario. You cannot compensate for a mother's love nor can you compensate for a father's love.

If a child has has two mums, they still don't have a dad no matter how many uncles, coaches, male role models they may have in their life. The same applies if the child has two dads.

This view may appear narrow-minded, ignorant, discriminatory etc etc. but nothing posted on this thread yet has persuaded me otherwise.

[fitzroyalty]

this thread cracks me up

just for the non PC Brigade, are you aware that the whole idea that a "family" as you define it, i.e. parents of opposite sex and their kids only became a viable entity in the late 16th century? and actually only became commonplace 150 years later? The raising of children before that was done by an extended circle including extended family and neighbors and various other "elders" in the community...

Care to hazard a guess as to why the 'traditional' family structure that the non-PC Brigade subscribe to has been so widespread ever since?

[nifan]

That is a variable of which you can have no control over, which is totally different from adoption. I hardly see it ideal as approving a same-sex adoption on the basis that Uncle Jimmy will take care of the 'daddy stuff' and Coach Carter will do his bit regards sports, physical exercise etc. Ideally an adopted child should not have to look elsewhere from their home for these missing influences.

So should a child not be placed with a hetero couple if the father doesnt like sport? this is getting confusing....

[nifan]

Puck, If I unsubscribe from our current health plan in work and seek my own through something like Cobra we're talking a couple of thousand dollars a month. Already with subsidized healthcare through my job, my contributions are close to $600 per month. We are a single income family with two kids and one more on the way.

If I was faced between choosing between my faith and my family - hand on heart I'd have to choose my faith. My family wouldn't have me otherwise.
That may seem like a ridiculous statement but I really would and my family would support my decision.

Iceman - I dont know if im reading this right - theres a lot going on in this thread.

Are you saying you would refuse the subsidized healthcare if there was an OPTION within the package for abortion etc?

And if so - if you had a sick child you would put that conviction ahead of them?

[fitzroyalty]

That is a variable of which you can have no control over, which is totally different from adoption. I hardly see it ideal as approving a same-sex adoption on the basis that Uncle Jimmy will take care of the 'daddy stuff' and Coach Carter will do his bit regards sports, physical exercise etc. Ideally an adopted child should not have to look elsewhere from their home for these missing influences.

So should a child not be placed with a hetero couple if the father doesnt like sport? this is getting confusing....

I am using sport as a loose example of what would constitute a father's influence; which would more than likely be missing when (for example) two lesbians adopted a wee fella.

[Hardy]

If I was faced between choosing between my faith and my family - hand on heart I'd have to choose my faith.

I find this chilling and it's why blind faith scares the hell out of me.

[Maguire01]

That is a variable of which you can have no control over, which is totally different from adoption. I hardly see it ideal as approving a same-sex adoption on the basis that Uncle Jimmy will take care of the 'daddy stuff' and Coach Carter will do his bit regards sports, physical exercise etc. Ideally an adopted child should not have to look elsewhere from their home for these missing influences.

So should a child not be placed with a hetero couple if the father doesnt like sport? this is getting confusing....

I am using sport as a loose example of what would constitute a father's influence; which would more than likely be missing when (for example) two lesbians adopted a wee fella.

Well it's too loose. As nifan said, what if the father doesn't like sport? And what evidence is there that lesbians don't like sport?

Give us a list of the things that only a father/man can provide. And i'd expect these things to be fairly critical in the raising of a child.

[Maguire01]

If I was faced between choosing between my faith and my family - hand on heart I'd have to choose my faith.

I find this chilling and it's why blind faith scares the hell out of me.

That's called being a fundamentalist.

[Puckoon]

And what evidence is there that lesbians don't like sport?

Is it wrong to find this funny?

[whiskeysteve]

lol - 17 pages on ad nauseum gay marriage debate.  way to waste your time folks. and half of you just in it for the sake of debate as well 

[Eamonnca1]

lol - 17 pages on ad nauseum gay marriage debate.  way to waste your time folks. and half of you just in it for the sake of debate as well 

Surely posting on a thread that you're not interested in is an even bigger waste of time.