Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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Milltown Row2

It's do I want an easy night or do I let teams play championship football?

The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.

The referee has the responsibility of applying the rules.

Where it gets muddled is when the ref misses something (he's human, can happen) or when players decide to get some retribution from a previous challenge that went (in their eyes) against them.

This call from the sidelines that you hear in games, that's your fault ref, you caused that injury, we all know he didn't, he may have 'allowed' a robust tackle go as not every tackle is a foul which in turn leads to some payback, which is a foul, but it's not the refs fault.

I'd two teams years ago who from the get go couldn't handle their emotions, local derby and all that, 3 or 4 minutes in came the cry, you're losing it ref. After that I blew for everything, a free fest which descended into the worst game ever!

If players and managers control their emotions then the ref will have the easiest job, that's where it starts.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Belfast GAA man on August 23, 2021, 02:21:30 PM
do club refs get much training? tough and lonely job alright being on a team of one a lonely pint job so to speak

What training are we talking about?

Rules tests
Fitness tests
Yearly review of new rules, applications, video analysis
Assessments

That sort of training?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Belfast GAA man

Yes thats good to hear u r getting that level of support

antrimman667

As a dual player, refereeing has been set to a high standard. with refs not blowing up as easy as they use to.  if we are gonna compete with other counties we need to let the game flow. this is where the refs in hurling in the county are too whistle-happy I feel .

Rodger Mona

Didnt see any of the senior games last friday, though attended an exciting IFC game between Glenavy and St.Pauls. Pauls just edging it a goal.

Just to comment on some of the statements here regarding refs. iv been critical myself at times of some of the refs and as soon as you mention anything you are told to put your name forward before making comments so we would all need to watch what we say. though i think we can all agree whether we've watched all ireland matches, provincial or even premier league games, we have all been critical or passed comments on refs! they are all human and dont deserve abuse of any description, but they are always going to be a talking point. so criticise away but keep it respectful.

For example, i stood in belfast watching a very important game 2 years ago, and a certain referee somehow mahanged to play 8minutes over injury time.... when the crowd were shouting to the lines man and asking what was going on he said "he'll blow it any second now"...... 5minutes later match was still going on.

To me as a neutral i loved that as it was adding to the excitement of the whole thing but could you imagine if the team who were trying to see the game out for that duration ended up losing that game... poor ref wouldnt of made it to the pavilion!!

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Rodger Mona on August 24, 2021, 09:28:50 AM
Didnt see any of the senior games last friday, though attended an exciting IFC game between Glenavy and St.Pauls. Pauls just edging it a goal.

Just to comment on some of the statements here regarding refs. iv been critical myself at times of some of the refs and as soon as you mention anything you are told to put your name forward before making comments so we would all need to watch what we say. though i think we can all agree whether we've watched all ireland matches, provincial or even premier league games, we have all been critical or passed comments on refs! they are all human and dont deserve abuse of any description, but they are always going to be a talking point. so criticise away but keep it respectful.

For example, i stood in belfast watching a very important game 2 years ago, and a certain referee somehow mahanged to play 8minutes over injury time.... when the crowd were shouting to the lines man and asking what was going on he said "he'll blow it any second now"...... 5minutes later match was still going on.

To me as a neutral i loved that as it was adding to the excitement of the whole thing but could you imagine if the team who were trying to see the game out for that duration ended up losing that game... poor ref wouldnt of made it to the pavilion!!

I'm bored of that to be fair, the only watch that is of any note is the ref's. the linesman is not stopping his watch when players are dropping like flies with cramp and other time wasting routines. The players are all informed and showed the watch whenever they want, and the ref visually shows he's stopping the watch and restarting it. Would you prefer that there was no stoppage time?

I did 6 minutes the other night, its not fair on the team that is behind to have the other team take the piss, if you have different views on that then that's fine, take the medicine and try it out
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

johnnycool

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:35:29 AM
Quote from: Rodger Mona on August 24, 2021, 09:28:50 AM
Didnt see any of the senior games last friday, though attended an exciting IFC game between Glenavy and St.Pauls. Pauls just edging it a goal.

Just to comment on some of the statements here regarding refs. iv been critical myself at times of some of the refs and as soon as you mention anything you are told to put your name forward before making comments so we would all need to watch what we say. though i think we can all agree whether we've watched all ireland matches, provincial or even premier league games, we have all been critical or passed comments on refs! they are all human and dont deserve abuse of any description, but they are always going to be a talking point. so criticise away but keep it respectful.

For example, i stood in belfast watching a very important game 2 years ago, and a certain referee somehow mahanged to play 8minutes over injury time.... when the crowd were shouting to the lines man and asking what was going on he said "he'll blow it any second now"...... 5minutes later match was still going on.

To me as a neutral i loved that as it was adding to the excitement of the whole thing but could you imagine if the team who were trying to see the game out for that duration ended up losing that game... poor ref wouldnt of made it to the pavilion!!

I'm bored of that to be fair, the only watch that is of any note is the ref's. the linesman is not stopping his watch when players are dropping like flies with cramp and other time wasting routines. The players are all informed and showed the watch whenever they want, and the ref visually shows he's stopping the watch and restarting it. Would you prefer that there was no stoppage time?

I did 6 minutes the other night, its not fair on the team that is behind to have the other team take the piss, if you have different views on that then that's fine, take the medicine and try it out

WRT timings MR2, we've one of those scoreboards where you can put a clock timer on if for say 30 minutes once the referee starts the half. We've decided not to use that function and just keep the time of day on it.

As a referee do you think having the countdown timer is a hindrance to the referee like as you say that clock doesn't take stoppages into consideration?

Gold

Controversial 1 but surely refs can influence games if they wish to

There defo must be times a player has said something and pissed a ref off, leading to the ref not giving that player a free the next time hes say being clearly dragged back etc and ultimately influencing a result

Same with teams refs don't like etc. Humans doing the reffing so has to happen.

Defo see it when a ref knows 1 team from their area reffing another team "calm down Breezer, don't be at it" versus "number 10 come here. Name? Black card."  Game over.
"Cheeky Charlie McKenna..."

Milltown Row2

Quote from: johnnycool on August 24, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:35:29 AM
Quote from: Rodger Mona on August 24, 2021, 09:28:50 AM
Didnt see any of the senior games last friday, though attended an exciting IFC game between Glenavy and St.Pauls. Pauls just edging it a goal.

Just to comment on some of the statements here regarding refs. iv been critical myself at times of some of the refs and as soon as you mention anything you are told to put your name forward before making comments so we would all need to watch what we say. though i think we can all agree whether we've watched all ireland matches, provincial or even premier league games, we have all been critical or passed comments on refs! they are all human and dont deserve abuse of any description, but they are always going to be a talking point. so criticise away but keep it respectful.

For example, i stood in belfast watching a very important game 2 years ago, and a certain referee somehow mahanged to play 8minutes over injury time.... when the crowd were shouting to the lines man and asking what was going on he said "he'll blow it any second now"...... 5minutes later match was still going on.

To me as a neutral i loved that as it was adding to the excitement of the whole thing but could you imagine if the team who were trying to see the game out for that duration ended up losing that game... poor ref wouldnt of made it to the pavilion!!

I'm bored of that to be fair, the only watch that is of any note is the ref's. the linesman is not stopping his watch when players are dropping like flies with cramp and other time wasting routines. The players are all informed and showed the watch whenever they want, and the ref visually shows he's stopping the watch and restarting it. Would you prefer that there was no stoppage time?

I did 6 minutes the other night, its not fair on the team that is behind to have the other team take the piss, if you have different views on that then that's fine, take the medicine and try it out

WRT timings MR2, we've one of those scoreboards where you can put a clock timer on if for say 30 minutes once the referee starts the half. We've decided not to use that function and just keep the time of day on it.

As a referee do you think having the countdown timer is a hindrance to the referee like as you say that clock doesn't take stoppages into consideration?

I'll be honest, I never look at the scoreboard or clock, they can be a hinderance as the supporters are shouting and coaches... I show the watch they can see for themselves what's left, the generally do so I've never really any issues from the lads on the pitch

I've actually thought the 15 minute breaks would have shortened the injury time, but take the last game I did, I stopped the watch dead on 15 minutes for the last part, told players, bar injuries and stoppages we have 15 minutes left, I mentioned to managers that I'll be stopping the watch should I have to, I played 6 minutes of injury, the other team was going ballistic! I fail to see what I have done wrong (on this occasion lol)
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Rodger Mona

MR2 Can you or any of the other refs/ former refs enlighten us as to what guidance or advice the refs are given on stoppages and how that reflects on injury time... i can see where you are coming from but it doesnt seem to be across the board. Other Refs blow it up nearly on the end second of time given no matter what happens during play.

and tell me has there been a change in the rules as to what a black card is? watching games this year there doesnt seem to be as many given for checking runners or 3rd man type stuff...

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Rodger Mona on August 24, 2021, 11:44:06 AM
MR2 Can you or any of the other refs/ former refs enlighten us as to what guidance or advice the refs are given on stoppages and how that reflects on injury time... i can see where you are coming from but it doesnt seem to be across the board. Other Refs blow it up nearly on the end second of time given no matter what happens during play.

and tell me has there been a change in the rules as to what a black card is? watching games this year there doesnt seem to be as many given for checking runners or 3rd man type stuff...

This is down to the timekeeper/ref I personally let all concerned know what I'm doing, injury time is stoppages, injury, keeper pissing about with the ball, subs, and so on, I've played the game long enough and managed long enough to know when someone is taking the piss (not a technical term we use)

Other Ref's may give a standard set of extra minutes and blow, I prefer stopping the watch, so my watch will always show 15m played at the end. The rules say you have to add on time for injuries/stoppages and subs, they are not normal playing stoppages, like the keeper setting the ball down and hitting it, or frees, only when they take added time it should be a hop ball and add on that stoppage from that.

If a team is in front and is deliberately wasting time then it should be added on, I can't see why anyone wouldn't agree to that.

You'd feel annoyed if you managed a team that the ref didn't allow for time wasting, subs, injuries.. I personally would encourage the team to play the game out, keep ball and run down the clock naturally, no stoppages then, the playacting by some is embarrassing at times.

As for the black card, I've only done it twice this year strangely, Its got to be a deliberate pull down or a blatant body check, that I've got to see, remember I'm following the ball most times, body checks are hard to get unless its right in front of you, and what you see and what I see will always be different.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Tyrdub

Quote from: johnnycool on August 24, 2021, 09:44:36 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 09:35:29 AM
Quote from: Rodger Mona on August 24, 2021, 09:28:50 AM
Didnt see any of the senior games last friday, though attended an exciting IFC game between Glenavy and St.Pauls. Pauls just edging it a goal.

Just to comment on some of the statements here regarding refs. iv been critical myself at times of some of the refs and as soon as you mention anything you are told to put your name forward before making comments so we would all need to watch what we say. though i think we can all agree whether we've watched all ireland matches, provincial or even premier league games, we have all been critical or passed comments on refs! they are all human and dont deserve abuse of any description, but they are always going to be a talking point. so criticise away but keep it respectful.

For example, i stood in belfast watching a very important game 2 years ago, and a certain referee somehow mahanged to play 8minutes over injury time.... when the crowd were shouting to the lines man and asking what was going on he said "he'll blow it any second now"...... 5minutes later match was still going on.

To me as a neutral i loved that as it was adding to the excitement of the whole thing but could you imagine if the team who were trying to see the game out for that duration ended up losing that game... poor ref wouldnt of made it to the pavilion!!

I'm bored of that to be fair, the only watch that is of any note is the ref's. the linesman is not stopping his watch when players are dropping like flies with cramp and other time wasting routines. The players are all informed and showed the watch whenever they want, and the ref visually shows he's stopping the watch and restarting it. Would you prefer that there was no stoppage time?

I did 6 minutes the other night, its not fair on the team that is behind to have the other team take the piss, if you have different views on that then that's fine, take the medicine and try it out

WRT timings MR2, we've one of those scoreboards where you can put a clock timer on if for say 30 minutes once the referee starts the half. We've decided not to use that function and just keep the time of day on it.

As a referee do you think having the countdown timer is a hindrance to the referee like as you say that clock doesn't take stoppages into consideration?

I always ask for it be switched off or not used, it just causes problems.

Hurling league match earlier this year, 1 team 2 points behind, timer showed 30s left for some reason but by my 2 watches i'd played 4 mins over. Losing team went daft, turns out there was a glitch in the clock

Kickham csc

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2021, 05:57:23 PM
It's do I want an easy night or do I let teams play championship football?

The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.

The referee has the responsibility of applying the rules.

Where it gets muddled is when the ref misses something (he's human, can happen) or when players decide to get some retribution from a previous challenge that went (in their eyes) against them.

This call from the sidelines that you hear in games, that's your fault ref, you caused that injury, we all know he didn't, he may have 'allowed' a robust tackle go as not every tackle is a foul which in turn leads to some payback, which is a foul, but it's not the refs fault.

I'd two teams years ago who from the get go couldn't handle their emotions, local derby and all that, 3 or 4 minutes in came the cry, you're losing it ref. After that I blew for everything, a free fest which descended into the worst game ever!

If players and managers control their emotions then the ref will have the easiest job, that's where it starts.

The players firstly have a responsibility to play within the rules. End of.

The referee has the responsibility of applying the rules.

Wrong way around, The referee has the responsibility of both establishing the latitude he will use in the application of the rules, and the actual application of the rules.

Players usually will respond to the referee and conduct themselves in that manor. If player see one of their teammates getting rough treatment and the referee doesn't deal with it properly, usually the group mentality of looking after your own kicks in, i.e. if the referee won't protect us we will have to. A lot of times, players and managers lose control their emotions when the referee is not properly or consistently applying the rules.

To the referee's on here, if you disagree with this, then you don't understand a key element of competitive physiology that exists in all contact sports. A referee can't control players from doing a dirty action, but how they deal with that will majorly influence how the game is played after that point

My youngest (U-8) plays soccer, during a match, the other teams left back continually left his feet with a two footed lunge to get the ball. The ref was walking past me and I quietly mentioned to him that its a foul and that he is going to hurt someone. The ref threatened to send me to the car, 10 mins later the left back did break an ankle.

I lost it, saying that it was the referees fault and it was, and his response as to tell me to control my emotions. He was more interested in controlling me than in properly controlling the game.

I regretted not losing my control earlier, as it would probably have prevented an 8 year old having his leg broken

This is why managers and supporters react the way they do on the sideline, and good referee's are ably to manage this

Milltown Row2

So and eye for eye attitude? Hopefully you're not looking after kids teams, where you teach them the rules and respect  of the games and how to play football and hurling.

The referee applies the rules full stop, it's up to the players to abide by them, so to take your attitude if I see someone driving their car without a seat belt on or speeding I can do the same?

As for understanding the game my CV as a player and manager gives me enough experience and insight in playing competitively and managing competitively. Your players should and always play by the rules if they don't then they'll lose sight of what's ahead.

No one goes out to have a bad game, players managers and ref's can have a bad day, the team take it collectively while the ref is generally on his own.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Kickham csc

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2021, 06:23:22 PM
So and eye for eye attitude? Hopefully you're not looking after kids teams, where you teach them the rules and respect  of the games and how to play football and hurling.

The referee applies the rules full stop, it's up to the players to abide by them, so to take your attitude if I see someone driving their car without a seat belt on or speeding I can do the same?

As for understanding the game my CV as a player and manager gives me enough experience and insight in playing competitively and managing competitively. Your players should and always play by the rules if they don't then they'll lose sight of what's ahead.

No one goes out to have a bad game, players managers and ref's can have a bad day, the team take it collectively while the ref is generally on his own.

Looked after kids teams for years, and my teams we very well behaved and disciplined. No problem there, but you seem to deflect any comments about how referees have the biggest impact on how a games played onto players and managers fault, and that's a problem. Seems that referees have no self reflection.

The influence on how a games played is 1 Manager, 2 referee, and 3 Managers. But on the pitch and during the game, its 1 Referee, 2 Players, and 3 Manager.

Regarding the seat belt analogy, not applicable as another person not wearing a seat belt doesn't impact me, but if a member of the opposing team hits one of my team and the ref doesn't take action, that does impact my team.

If the referee is consistently allowing players to run 8 steps  before bouncing / soloing a ball, all players will do it. This is natural. If you have a team being over aggressive and not getting punished by the ref, one of your players will get hurt, and the team will have a duty of care to each other to stand up to it. Look at the Mayo Dublin game, the ref and officials missed about 4 red card offences, Mayo got more aggressive after,