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I'm really struggling with this post.

It seems that one argument being presented is that because some players may have mental health issues, or some don't enjoy training or the pressure of playing to win championship, then the current competitive structures are wrong. Football and hurling is a competitive sport, and you shouldn't look negatively on teams who are prepared to (and agree to) training regimes, as a manager can't implement one without players consent.

In all sports there is a a clear development process

Play for fun - up to U12 (titles/ results shouldn't matter)
Play to compete U12 - U16ish (focus on competing in games, titles results shouldn't matter)
Play to win  U 18 upwards

This is a natural path, and as someone said earlier, you get more enjoyment out winning than losing games.

So if teams like Donegal and Dublin put in a serious effort in training, it's on them and fair play to them, and if they fall short, then they will be disappointed, but in a few years, you do look back on the losing campaigns with pride, if you challenged to win

Regarding the players who don't want to make a commitment, or who have mental health issues, that is a completely separate issue.

The GAA has an obligation to provide a service to these players, in the form of recreational games and counseling support. (South Antrim league is a fine example, and years ago Creggan starting hurling in the NA JHL which was a no pressure, - development league)

So playing to win, win at all costs is not an issue for me,

Other services just need to be supplied (i.e should every GAA club have a cycling club, rec basketball league, rec soccer leagues, of non touch GAA leagues??

[its about fulfilling potential]

I think General lee hit the nail on the head, its about fulfilling potential, or at least it always has been for me anyway.
Some lads aren't bothered about that sort of thing, they just want to play a game of football, and then go home and forget about it.
That's fine, but not everyone is like that. (and from the higher level of club football, up to county football, they are in the minority these days)
Just because there are a section of people that just want no commitment recreational football, doesn't mean everyone should operate on that basis.In most clubs, there is reserve/junior b football for that, or plenty of other sports out there that offers participation on that level.
Most lads want a outlet where they can push and challenge themselves. A chance to achieve something out of the norm of everyday life. That might be a junior club championship for some, or sam maguire for others, with every level in between.

I would also agree with some other posters though, that the level of enjoyment has to be there too, but the stories I am hearing about mangers doing this and that, is just down to plain poor management IMO.
A good coach/ manager should be able to push his players to get the most out of themselves while still retaining the element of enjoyment too. Its about balance. There should always be a bit of craic and banter in the changing room, and on the training field and that element of socialising together, but a different level of enjoyment also comes when as a group you have worked hard together and achieved something.
That doesn't mean a senior championship for everyone,as Indiana said only one club a year will do that. But that shouldn't stop the rest from striving to be as good as they can be and enjoying the journey along the way.

Brilliant post.

Everything highlighted in bold is spot on.

Its about balance. There should always be a bit of craic and banter in the changing room, and on the training field and that element of socialising together, but a different level of enjoyment also comes when as a group you have worked hard together and achieved something.


The enjoyment for me was always the craic in training, pure banter. But I've always played with lads who were great craic, but were deadly serious about winning, or facing the challenge to win. And there is great fulfillment, even in defeat, when collectively you have trying to achieve the possible and impossible.

On another point, great to see my old club mate on the sidelines last night, now head of fitness for LFC

[Scott Brown was only interested in acting the hardman.]

Awful result. Team selection was woeful. with the exception of Griffiths and Tierney there was no passion. Scott Brown was only interested in acting the hardman. No leadership on our off the field. At this rate Aberdeen will win the league.

That's all Scott Brown has ever done imo. Dreadful player.
Wouldn't be just wonderful if Aberdeen did win it.

Why would that be wonderful? are you an Aberdeen supporter? What connections do you have with them? This sickens my hole TBH as the portion of Ireland that supports Celtic the rest want to see them beat. You don't support any other team in that Country and Celtic having the Irish connections you'd rather see Rangers/Aberdeen or any other team for that matter win the title...and if you've no interest in Celtic (look at the title of the thread) why come in and try to wind people up (we've already got Fearon for that)

The Irish Connection thing is resigned to history . . . what exactly is the Irish connection to the Club now? There are more Englishmen on the team than Irish players.

What I see now is a virtual monopoly on the Scottish Premier League and why wouldn't anyone want to see someone new come in and break the mould. Celtic supporters should be looking for it too as the lack of genuine competition has seen the board try and maintain the club on a shoestring which has led to the decline in quality of manager since Strachan really.

It was said at the time that Celtic couldn't cope with the loss of Rangers and so it has transpired. For the better of football in Scotland overall I think an Aberdeen Premier League victory would be refreshing!

If you ever go to a Celtic game you will realise the Irish connection is as strong as ever with the fans.

Football without fans, is nothing.

That is what the great Jock Stein said and the fans of the club certainly seem to identify strongly with their Irish heritage.

Celtic's average league attendances from 98-2012 were averaging 58k . . . the average for this season is 44k. The Sectarian element is disappearing and the whole "us and them" thing will be gone within the next 2 generations I would think and then what have we got left?? An average football club with a great history!!

In my opinion, the 14K reduction in average attendance has less to do with the sectarian element disappearing, and more to do with the quality on the pitch. Just moved over from living in the states for 10 years. Trying to brainwash my son to being a Celtic supporter via educating him on the great Celtic attacking football style.

Watched the game on Sunday, and OMG, that was embarrassingly poor.

So as great a supporter as I am, I am in no rush to bring my lad up to Celtic Park, because the football on display would suck the life out of you.

If Celtic were playing good football, with great young talent, and competing in Europe, the attendances would go up, with or without Rangers

Sell the ground to developers, Redevelop Corrigan Park, lets move on

BTW, get the CoE sorted while your at it

Could we not set up "Exile Clubs" in Dublin, e.g. Dublin Ulster, Dublin Munster, etc  and direct players moving to join their host exile clubs.

Worked for rugby in London, why not here.

Orrrrrrrrr, how about a Dublin Kerry club, yea ha, that would be some craic

[It's a shame that the right have butchered the US political system to such an extent that many find it more beneficial to exploit situations to suit their own political agenda rather than talk or seek actions as to how we can prevent these things from happening in the first place!!]

Of course it's a horrible situation nobody is saying it isn't. How can we remedy such a problem?? Well improve treatment of mental health and stop guns would be two ways... But you lads aren't too interested in those types of ideas.

The reason why an unarmed black guy getting shot by police gets more attention than this is because it's not supposed to happen. Police aren't supposed to shoot unarmed citizens. How anyone can try and equate the to situations is beyond me!

What's more worrying is the fact that you right wing lunatics are more interested in getting other people's opinions on the matter than actually talking about how such situations could be avoided. It's a shame that the right have butchered the US political system to such an extent that many find it more beneficial to exploit situations to suit their own political agenda rather than talk or seek actions as to how we can prevent these things from happening in the first place!!

But sure go and call out another poster for not saying enough about it that will solve everything!!

You got it half right. Both the left and right exploit these issues without a real effort to address the root cause.The left don't really come up with solutions, and their political strategy is to exploit these issues to maximize the black votes.

For example, poor education performance in poor areas seems to be a major causal issue, yet time and time again, Democrats support the status quo in support of teacher unions, instead of other strategies that might improve the issue (De Blasio NYC).

Speaking of De Blasio, after Eric Garner died, he stated in a press conference that it was a disgrace that a man should die over selling loose ciggies (a trivial crime), and blamed the NYPD on pursuing the sellers of loose ciggies. He never mentioned that the prosecution of loose ciggie sellers was a top priority to the NYC and NY state due to significant income tax loss, and instructed the NYPD to come up with a strategy to ensure prosecutions .

One year on and the prosecution of selling of loose ciggies is still a high priority for NYC, and the NYPD are still aggressively pursuing sellers. What's changed. Nothing.

On the right, there is a fear game being played, but a refusal to do anything about gun control.

Both sides are just playing the game

UUJ is just a collection of names. I won't be surprised if they don't win

Wouldn't be the first time that's happened 

UCC 1-9 UCD 3-11.

Semi final line up

UL v UCD
UUJ v DCU or Carlow IT.

Would UCD be favorites? I see they won the Ryan Cup earlier, so it looks like they'll take some stopping

Good man kickham. You're now forcing the favourite tag onto UCD when you know rightly your beloved UUJ are a country mile ahead of the rest when it comes to players. There's usually less big names on Railway cup teams ffs. With them at home it's theirs to loose, much as it pains me to say it.

Actually serious question, I'm living on foreign lands at the minute, so regarding opposition player quality wise, not up to speed with the other colleges.

Just noticed that UCD won the Ryan Cup, so I suppose they are strong this year, UL beat the huns , so they should be strong and DCU are DCU.

UCC 1-9 UCD 3-11.

Semi final line up

UL v UCD
UUJ v DCU or Carlow IT.

Would UCD be favorites? I see they won the Ryan Cup earlier, so it looks like they'll take some stopping

[squander SUSI money]

Turn it into an u-21 competition.
Problem solved.

Agreed.

They'll have 3 years to play Sigerson - you have to draw the line somewhere. This would prevent colleges trying to recruit well established county players to come and do masters courses at their establishment. I'm not against any mature student going back to college, good luck to them - they just aren't eligible to play sigerson.

I thought this had already been resolved, i.e Rules have been passed that you have 4 (or 5) years to play at college. So after freshers, each player would have 3-4 years at Sigerson. sligo could caught out on this last year regarding the Student Officer, as new rules limit the available years and prevent student officers.

Doesn't solve the problem of lads taking up nonsense courses as mature students for the sole purpose of playing football.

You mean a Masters or a PGCE are nonsense courses?

When the main reason they are in that college is because of the moneyhat they were given because they're good at football, yeah. Most of the big players would never choose to go to the UK and squander SUSI money if not for the money on offer.

FOAD you free state pig.

Plenty of intercounty GAA players from the 26 have gone over to university in England. Colm McFadden being one, Caoimhaoin King of Meath being another and I'm sure there are plenty other.

Now desist from talking out of your little weasel hole.

From the SUSI webpage

Student Grant




The Closing date to submit new applications for the 2015/2016 Academic year is 1st August 2015

For all information on student grants for 2015/16 please go to susi.ie

The student grant is the main source of financial help available from the Irish State for students in full-time Post Leaving Certificate Courses (PLCs) and full-time higher education undergraduate courses. Support is available to eligible students in most colleges in Ireland as well as eligible Irish students in many colleges in Northern Ireland, the UK and other EU States.

For eligible students, the grant is there to help with the various costs of participating in further or higher education. Students on part-time courses, access or foundation courses (in higher education institutions) and short courses are not eligible to apply for a student grant.

Family and/or personal income is a key factor that will be assessed when you apply for a student grant but there are also some other conditions. Full details on the Student Grant scheme (2015), including associated legislation, are available at susi.ie

So..... southern students might not be giving up or squandering SUSI money as they may well be still qualified to receiving SUSI support while studying in NI, UK and EU.

But obviously all those courses are OK, it's just the pesky UUJ courses

Turn it into an u-21 competition.
Problem solved.

Agreed.

They'll have 3 years to play Sigerson - you have to draw the line somewhere. This would prevent colleges trying to recruit well established county players to come and do masters courses at their establishment. I'm not against any mature student going back to college, good luck to them - they just aren't eligible to play sigerson.

I thought this had already been resolved, i.e Rules have been passed that you have 4 (or 5) years to play at college. So after freshers, each player would have 3-4 years at Sigerson. sligo could caught out on this last year regarding the Student Officer, as new rules limit the available years and prevent student officers.

Doesn't solve the problem of lads taking up nonsense courses as mature students for the sole purpose of playing football.

You mean a Masters or a PGCE are nonsense courses?

Turn it into an u-21 competition.
Problem solved.

Agreed.

They'll have 3 years to play Sigerson - you have to draw the line somewhere. This would prevent colleges trying to recruit well established county players to come and do masters courses at their establishment. I'm not against any mature student going back to college, good luck to them - they just aren't eligible to play sigerson.

I thought this had already been resolved, i.e Rules have been passed that you have 4 (or 5) years to play at college. So after freshers, each player would have 3-4 years at Sigerson. sligo could caught out on this last year regarding the Student Officer, as new rules limit the available years and prevent student officers.

How many of the UUJ team have been there since freshers?. Killian Clarke and Argue weren't.. Clarke was in AIT and Argue in DIT.. Paddy McBrearty was in Maynooth. Ryan McHugh was in Sligo It as was Evan Regan

Regan doing a Masters.

It's absolutely insane. UUJ winNing the Sigerson would make a mockery of the competition.

The Sigerson has been a mockery for a long time but that's what makes it interesting. Its purely about which Uni has the best players in any given year and watching a whos who of county players lining out for a team makes the games interesting. Tralee where at it years ago, DIT have been at it - UUJ aren't doing anything that they weren't doing 15 years ago. In my view the Sigerson is a competition that isn't taken too seriously, outside those that are taking part.

Nope. Vast majority of colleges don't field teams of players they nearly entirely poached from other colleges' courses. DCU got some abuse but they never did anything of the level of UUJ. What Jordanstown are doing is precipitating change by being so brazen in their abuse of the system.

Any evidence of this abuse other than the usual "dogs on the street" know.

If they were so brazen then why have they not been punished???

And a point of note;

UCD brought in scholarships to the GAA in 95-96, followed by DCU etc.
So is UCD's Sigerson win in 96 tainted? It must be, they had scholarship students, nobody else had!!!

Students transfer all the time, change of course, college closer to home etc, and if a student wants to go to a college to get a scholarship, then why not. And if UUJ is offering a good scholarship package, and a student want to avail of it, why the negative response. Surely everybody should be asking why their colleges are not stepping up to the plate in regards to scholarships.

This whole UUJ being the bad boys goes the whole way back to the 80's, when they had the audacity to enter the Sigerson. They were met with resistance from the established Sigerson colleges at the time due to the Jordanstown being a Poly and having HNDs etc. and the elite colleges at the time were not happy about it.

The fact that they are being focused on here, while giving other colleges a bye ball is a joke.

And finally, I'll go back to my first point. Any evidence of this abuse other than the usual "dogs on the street" know and if they were so brazen then why have they not been punished???

Does anyone really care about the Sigerson anymore (apart from those playing in it).  County teams the half of them it would seem.

You make out like this level of outside 'caring' has changed. When was it any different? It is what it is. Do you think many turn up for Junior B club matches? Should they be chopped because of that too?

Exactly, spot on. The players care and that's all that matters.

You have 4 years to win the Sigerson, playing with mates from different clubs, counties, provinces.

That limited time frame results in each Sigerson weekend bringing it's own special pressure / tension / excitement etc.

The Sigerson weekend is truly a great weekend, for players and supporters.