Shamrock Rovers Ultras

[dublinfella]

we cant have a rule 42/44 (what made that move?) and go to the high court to demand inclusion in other sports facilities and not expect consequences. we groundshare or we dont. this is kellys point.

Dublinfella,

you can't have a rule 42/44, whatever, because you don't own the stadium you expect to be given.
Back to your previous point of

not fair=/= illegal

- you mightn't care because the end result suits you.

What if the GAA take the same approach in retaliation re the national soccer team playing at croker?
Would you join the gaa bashing brigade, you know, "the taxpayer gave a (small percentage - about 6%? ) grant to Croker, so anybody should be able to use it" brigade?
I've always thought that HQ were pathetic and weren't acting in the best interests of the GAA in not linking fair access to Tallaght with letting the FAI use croker. The latest comments of Sean Kelly adds to my discomfort as to why they didn't.

6%? more in the region of 40%. there was over €100m of public money handed over.

The GAA didnt link Tallaght to it because the FAI would have told them to f**k off. This case isnt as popular in the GAA as you might think. I'd be very surprised if it doesnt go away soon, especially seeing as there wont be the change in Govt stance on it and Kennedy has islolated the local TD's. Just a pity they didnt take the deal about money for Rathcoole while it was on the table.

[snatter]

we cant have a rule 42/44 (what made that move?) and go to the high court to demand inclusion in other sports facilities and not expect consequences. we groundshare or we dont. this is kellys point.

Dublinfella,

you can't have a rule 42/44, whatever, because you don't own the stadium you expect to be given.
Back to your previous point of

not fair=/= illegal

- you mightn't care because the end result suits you.

What if the GAA take the same approach in retaliation re the national soccer team playing at croker?
Would you join the gaa bashing brigade, you know, "the taxpayer gave a (small percentage - about 6%? ) grant to Croker, so anybody should be able to use it" brigade?
I've always thought that HQ were pathetic and weren't acting in the best interests of the GAA in not linking fair access to Tallaght with letting the FAI use croker. The latest comments of Sean Kelly adds to my discomfort as to why they didn't.

6%? more in the region of 40%. there was over €100m of public money handed over.

The GAA didnt link Tallaght to it because the FAI would have told them to f**k off. This case isnt as popular in the GAA as you might think. I'd be very surprised if it doesnt go away soon, especially seeing as there wont be the change in Govt stance on it and Kennedy has islolated the local TD's. Just a pity they didnt take the deal about money for Rathcoole while it was on the table.

Dublinfella,

just for the record:


The total cost for the reconstruction of Croke Park was €260 million. Of this figure €110 million was contributed by the government. However, only €19 million was from taxpayers money, the remainder came from lottery money.
To be totally accurate, the €19 million grant wasn't even directly for the for the GAA - it was provided to ensure the stadium was ready for the Special Olympics opening ceremony.

Now lets compare Croker's funding to that of Lansdowne Road.
Lansdowne is currently estimated to cost €345 million.
This project will receive €191 million in government aid of which €127 million will be from taxpayers money.
It should be noted however that this is just an estimate and the total cost is likely to be much more with the extra funds coming from the taxpayer.

Now, Dublinfella, can you tell us how much the Tallaght project is likely to cost, and more importantly, how much of it will come from the public purse? 
Remember to include the free site, giving an approximate market valuation if necessary.
Can you also outline just exactly how much Sham Rovers (in its current manifestation) are contributing?
For completeness, can you include the monies paid by the local council in having to reclaim public land back from Sham Rovers developers, to whom they had already gifted the land in the first place?
Oh, yes and then add the Govt, ie taxpayer's money to build the thing.

Once you've worked that out, you'll find that the level of taxpayers money given to you bunch of freeloaders at Tallaght will probably exceed that given to Croker! Unfuckingbelievable and totally perverse.

Can you then work out why we in the GAA community at large think we're getting shafted when it comes to public funding of stadium projects.

But, oh I forgot, you don't give a stuff about fairness as long as your beloved Sham Rovers get a free stadium for sweet fa.

[dublinfella]

if you think the GAA has been 'shafted' by the FF govt after taking €110m for CP alone, never mind some white elephants up and down the country with no strings attached we are on a different page altogether. what utter ingratitude.

the FAI/IRFU made their pitch and got their loot. the Tallaght stadium will see Rovers in there with more conditions on their tenency than any GAA club would tolerate. The state will actually own Tallght stadium, so to compare it to capital grants for GAA grounds is apples and oranges.

again, why werent the DCB into the Dept like a shot when those sorts of sweeties were being handed out? its a perverse way of approaching it. try and stop the other mob getting a damn thing rather than go in and get some for ourselves.

the fact that the GAA knocked back a matching offer for Rathcoole to pursue a 2,000 seater stadium that TD admitted they would never use is criminal

[blast05]

I believe in the order of 60% as a soccer ground

OK, lets take a huge leap and take your 60% figure as accurate  ...... then show me an example of any GAA ground in the country that has got a similar level of exchequer funding.
...
...
...

Yes, you see, there are none.
So is it fair that soccer at Eircom League level - a sport that puts funds towards paying players rather than infrastructure - gets a higher percentage of exchequer funding towards facilities (Athlone Town, who own their ground having been given their site for free in addition to the huge amount of funding, as another major recent example) than a pair of sports codes that put all of their funds back into the game and holds a place in Irish culture and the Irish psyche that is far higher than any other sport ?
This is the key point. The fact that you are already using as a smokescreen to try and claim victory the possibility that TD may not having the financial muscle to follow up on their conviction is a bit pathetic.

[snatter]

if you think the GAA has been 'shafted' by the FF govt after taking €110m for CP alone, never mind some white elephants up and down the country with no strings attached we are on a different page altogether. what utter ingratitude.

the FAI/IRFU made their pitch and got their loot. the Tallaght stadium will see Rovers in there with more conditions on their tenency than any GAA club would tolerate. The state will actually own Tallght stadium, so to compare it to capital grants for GAA grounds is apples and oranges.

again, why werent the DCB into the Dept like a shot when those sorts of sweeties were being handed out? its a perverse way of approaching it. try and stop the other mob getting a damn thing rather than go in and get some for ourselves.

the fact that the GAA knocked back a matching offer for Rathcoole to pursue a 2,000 seater stadium that TD admitted they would never use is criminal

So Dublinfella, you don't deny that more taxpayer's money will probably end up being given to you freeloaders at Tallaght than was given to us at Croker?

Remember that the lottery was set up specifically to fund large sports projects exactly like Croker - its not Govt money like you shameless freeloading hypocritical beggars are getting.

And for the f**king MILLIONTH TIME - this isn't about excluding Sham Rovers from anything - its about the INCLUSION of the GAA in an almost wholly publicly funded stadium.

An also for the MILLIONTH f**king TIME - the GAA bought the land at Rathcoole. It's theirs to do with as they please because THEY OWN IT, ie PAID MONEY FOR IT.
Admittedly a strange concept for vermin like Sham Rovers to understand.

Totallly different form being GIVEN a free site and then getting a free stadium built on it.

Anyway, I think it is already established that DCB want to develop a training facility their.
Its not as well located as the public stadium at Tallaght.

DO YOU NOT GET IT? this is about about equality and fair play.
Are you so blinkered by your love of Sham Rovers not to able to see the difference?

[dublinfella]

I believe in the order of 60% as a soccer ground

OK, lets take a huge leap and take your 60% figure as accurate  ...... then show me an example of any GAA ground in the country that has got a similar level of exchequer funding.
...
...
...

Yes, you see, there are none.
So is it fair that soccer at Eircom League level - a sport that puts funds towards paying players rather than infrastructure - gets a higher percentage of exchequer funding towards facilities (Athlone Town, who own their ground having been given their site for free in addition to the huge amount of funding, as another major recent example) than a pair of sports codes that put all of their funds back into the game and holds a place in Irish culture and the Irish psyche that is far higher than any other sport ?
This is the key point. The fact that you are already using as a smokescreen to try and claim victory the possibility that TD may not having the financial muscle to follow up on their conviction is a bit pathetic.

Pearse Stadium Galway got well over 60%.

I can think of hundreds of examples of GAA clubs taking free land from the state, Rathcoole is relevent to this. how much did the DCB pay for it?

The issue here is that the GAA cant involve itself in the grant system and then complain if someone else gets a percieved better deal., especially if the deal itself would be contary to GAA rules.  Rovers have to share their stadium with other teams and sports to get it completed. Would the GAA allow that? No. Would you have accepted taxpayers money for CP with those strings attached?

What 'conviction' are they following up exactly? That time, effort and money could have been used to compete with Rovers either on coaching or infrastructure, rather than delaing the project in the vain hope Rovers would go bust and a new FG minister for sport would over-rule his department. And in the mean time every club in the area is at a disadvantage. Madness.

[snatter]

Dublinefella,

seriously, you're full of absolute shite.

How can you compare the GAA PAYING for Rathcoole, when Sham Rovers are being given both public land and public funding for a free stadium.

60% funding for Pearse stadium? MY ARSE! for starters how much did the land cost?
When you bought your house, did you buy just the bricks and mortar, or did you buy the site as well? (assuming you did actually buy your house, or did you get O'Donoghue to do that for you as well?)

The GAA has involved itself in this instance because there is a manifest unfairness and abuse of procedure within this particular grant allocation.
For the minister to intervene and ride roughshod over the councils public consultation and previous decision to include gaelic games is perverse.
The % funding given to this project is perverse when compared to others, especially when the attendances at county gaa grounds are so much higher than the souple of thousand scrotes that you guys get.

An btw, the only clubs genuinely at a disadvantage in the Tallaght area are the GAA ones who are being excluded from a public stadium built for free on their doorstep.

[stephenite]

Dublinefella,

seriously, you're full of absolute shite.

That's why I have given up on discusing anything with him, it is impossible to have a rational discussion based on facts,  - the courts will decide

[dublinfella]

Dublinefella,

seriously, you're full of absolute shite.

How can you compare the GAA PAYING for Rathcoole, when Sham Rovers are being given both public land and public funding for a free stadium.

60% funding for Pearse stadium? MY ARSE! for starters how much did the land cost?
When you bought your house, did you buy just the bricks and mortar, or did you buy the site as well? (assuming you did actually buy your house, or did you get O'Donoghue to do that for you as well?)

The GAA has involved itself in this instance because there is a manifest unfairness and abuse of procedure within this particular grant allocation.
For the minister to intervene and ride roughshod over the councils public consultation and previous decision to include gaelic games is perverse.
The % funding given to this project is perverse when compared to others, especially when the attendances at county gaa grounds are so much higher than the souple of thousand scrotes that you guys get.

An btw, the only clubs genuinely at a disadvantage in the Tallaght area are the GAA ones who are being excluded from a public stadium built for free on their doorstep.

a few facts

the GAA payed the exact same per acre Rovers did. But they are beggers etc?  Ballyboden have recently sold land to developers given to them for free. odds on rathcoole will go the same way.

The council decided to allow Gaelic Games in contingent on funding remaining in place. They democratically overturned their second vote on the stadium 10 days later when this funding was withdrawn.

The GAA have rejected use of the stadium for the local youths as is and wont be asked again when its finished.

[blast05]

Just watching TV3 news review at the moment - they are reporting about Paul Stokes, the guy that drove his car into the entrance of the RTE studios. Hes was described as delusional in court. A similar analysis is all i can come up with when trying to figure your comments through this thread   

I'll leave it you snatter for now

[snatter]

Dublinfella,

exchequer funding for a 10,000 capacity stadium they will own approx €6m.

taxpayers bill for a 2,000 seater ground the local clubs wont use anyway approximatly €15m.

no doubt you will explain to me why the latter is a better investment 

couple points here:

1. you're making a very belated, and very partial attempt to state the cost of building Tallaght.
€6m may have been agreed on a bankrupt project many years ago. Not a snowballs chance in hell of a restarted project completing it for anything close to that. Reliable estimates in Irish Times had it about €13m, taking into account all fees paid (including that paid by the council to get their own land back from previous incarnation of Sham Rovers thieving bankrupt beggars).

2. yet again, you ommit the cost of the freely gifted land in the first place. Even zoned as recreational land, it would have a value of several million euro.

3. the SDCC may be notional owners, but you bunch of freeloaders will be effective owners, lease guaranteed prime use of a facility purpose built for yourselves.

4. and THIS IS A KEY POINT  - after spending tens of millions on a facility for you beggars, why should the public even have to consider building any other facility just for the GAA down the road. Any moron with a grasp of economics could see that it makes more sense to build one truly municipal facility for both GAA and soccer.

[dublinfella]

1: the delays and therefore cost increases are down to one source and one source only. a clique in TD CLG.

2: the site wasnt actually free. however, numerous GAA clubs, including TD have taken cheap/free land off the state. so its ok for the GAA but an outrage if its the FAI?

3: 'you bunch'? again, its ok if TD get in for literally free but an outrage if Rovers get in for some contribution?

4: any moron with a ruler can tell you this is simply about feasability. a senior GAA pitch does not fit on a soccer one. to do so would reduce the capacity to a point that its useless and economically unviable. TD tried and failed to turn this into an election issue contriving some conspiracy against the GAA. there isnt one. they had a look and it didnt work. get over it.

all this beggars and freeloader nonsense points to an anti-soccer agenda as opposed to any rational look at whether groundsharing between the GAA and others is feasable and or desiarable. in this case it isnt. all the rest is bluster.

[snatter]

Dublinfella,


>> 1. you're making a very belated, and very partial attempt to state the cost of building Tallaght.
>> €6m may have been agreed on a bankrupt project many years ago. Not a snowballs chance in hell of a restarted project
>> completing it for anything close to that. Reliable estimates in Irish Times had it about €13m, taking into account all fees paid
>> (including that paid by the council to get their own land back from previous incarnation of Sham Rovers thieving bankrupt
>> beggars).

>>>> 1: the delays and therefore cost increases are down to one source and one source only. a clique in TD CLG.

You're having a laugh - the delays here are due to thieving, inept, serial  moral and financial bankrupts going bust, taking public funding with them, forcing the SDCC to buy back land they already owned, etc , etc.

>> 2. yet again, you ommit the cost of the freely gifted land in the first place. Even zoned as recreational land, it would have a value >> of several million euro.

>>>> 2: the site wasnt actually free. however, numerous GAA clubs, including TD have taken cheap/free land off the state. so its ok >>>> for the GAA but an outrage if its the FAI?

Name one GAA unit that have had a free site and a free 10k stadium.
Are we seriously expected to accept Athlone Town and yourselves getting these free deals while we sink millions of our own money into catering for much bigger crowds at our grounds.

>>3. the SDCC may be notional owners, but you bunch of freeloaders will be effective owners, lease guaranteed prime use of a
>>facility purpose built for yourselves.
>>>>3: 'you bunch'? again, its ok if TD get in for literally free but an outrage if Rovers get in for some contribution?

Nobody here in GAA land is suggesting anything other than fair equitable treatment for both Sham Rovers and Dublin GAA. Both units should pay the same contribution and have equal access rights.
Anything less than equitable treatment will be an outrage.

>> 4. and THIS IS A KEY POINT  - after spending tens of millions on a facility for you beggars, why should the public even have to
>> consider building any other facility just for the GAA down the road. Any moron with a grasp of economics could see that it makes
>> more sense to build one truly municipal facility for both GAA and soccer.
>>>> 4: any moron with a ruler can tell you this is simply about feasability. a senior GAA pitch does not fit on a soccer one. to do so >>>> would reduce the capacity to a point that its useless and economically unviable. TD tried and failed to turn this into an election >>>> issue contriving some conspiracy against the GAA. there isnt one. they had a look and it didnt work. get over it.

Ah, but a soccer pitch does fit into a GAA one - can you think of an obvious solution here? Can our moron work it out?

[dublinfella]

1: Snatter. If it wasnt for TD's intervention the stadium would be finished and Rovers and the local GAA would be using it. Even you cant deny that.

2: Free lamd? Rathcoole. Ballyboden (now appartments). Thats just within a few miles of Tallaght. Similar funding %? Pearse Stadium. Your point would be far stronger if TD were putting anything into this rather than shortcutting all the work you claim the GAA does to get its infrastructure up.

3: Agreed, but the DCB seem not to be on message there.

4: Irrelevant and well you know it. If the site were big enough for a GAA pitch and a viable stadium there wouldnt be this discussion. It isn't, and turning this into a political battle has spectacularly backfired on the GAA. Even if they win the case, it will be totally phyricc as the SDCC will just re-vote and TD are left holding a legal bill for millions. And nothing in Rathcoole. Brilliant strategic vision from the DCB. Unless this is about the 'last man standing' and trying to screw Rovers with delays, in which case, they failed too.

[bottlethrower7]

dublinfella, heres a good album for you to check out