People from the 6 counties (our wee country)

[Applesisapples]

My wife and I are both Belfast born. My nationality is Irish, not Northern Irish. My wife's nationality is British, not Northern Irish. Politically it's the one thing we agree on, that there's no such thing as 'Northern Irish' when it comes to nationality. That's a different thing from saying that there's no such place, or that it has no right to exist.

I don't think your wife is British, unless born on the bigger island, she would however be a UK Citizen. She would be ethnically British if her family originated from the bigger island.

Good grief! How many times does it have to be pointed out that the term "United Kingdomish" is not used; the adjective deriving from the United Kingdom is "British" i.e. any person born in any part of the UK is British.

I mean, it's hardly as if it's the only idiosyncracy in the language; for example, we still refer to the United Kingdom even when the Sovereign is female...

Bullshit your passport is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, therfore you are either British or Northern Irish depending on where you were born and the ethnicity of your parents.

[Evil Genius]

The planters became Irish long ago, they've just decided to back-pedal after this partition business and say "well actually we were Ulstermen/Northern Irish/British/Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish all along, you know."  And one of the surest signs that someone is telling a lie is their inability to keep their story straight, as you can see from the multitude of replies you get from them when asked the simple question "what are you?"  That's why you get ten different answers...

As I previously stated, the "multitude of replies" stems from the fact that Ulster protestants / unionsists are not a homogeneous group of people.

"Homogeneous" 

Unable to understand what you are or whether you live in a "country", a "nation", a "state", a "province", a "region" etc etc... and feeling like you are Irish, but also British, but also northern Irish but also an Ulsterman, and "even an Englishman" (to quote EG) does not to me seem like the identity of a simply non-homogeneous group of people, but rather a group of people with an identity crisis.

Acknowledging that matters of identity are invariably complex does not present a "crisis" for anyone, unless he/she is so insecure that he/she is desperate for simplicity and certainty.

I am not such a person, even if you may be.

[Evil Genius]

You might have enlarged and emboldened the complete sentence, i.e. I support England in Test Cricket, and considering I have lived in England for years, I have no problem in considering myself "English" when the Test team is playing Australia or India or whoever.

But if you still can't get your head around that, perhaps you might ask eg Eoin Morgan or Ed Joyce for further explanation...

I support England in Test cricket. I still don't feel English even in those moments, any more than I feel English when I support Liverpool

Then how do you explain Eoin Morgan or Ed Joyce playing for England, then. Of course, it might purely be for the money and career etc, but that doesn't apply to this Irishman when he supports England.

Tbh, I was being somewhat "tongue-in-cheek" when I posted it, but it really doesn't bother me in the slightest - it's only a feckin' game, after all.

[Evil Genius]

This wee thread is turning into a cracking little debate.

I personally classify myself as a proud Irishman from Fermanagh. My opinion is that the Brits have no place as a ruling body on this island

And what do you mean by "Brit"?

For I, too, am a "proud Irishman from Fermanagh".

But I am also a "Brit".

Do I get a say in the running of the place or not?

[Evil Genius]

These threads are a laugh. The only thing that can bring the 32 counties together on this board seems to be golf.
I am hitting the drives 30 yards to the left but was raised a Presbyterian in Wicklow. What should I do?

Seeing as you're a right footer, have you considered kicking  it? 

[Nally Stand]

The planters became Irish long ago, they've just decided to back-pedal after this partition business and say "well actually we were Ulstermen/Northern Irish/British/Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish all along, you know."  And one of the surest signs that someone is telling a lie is their inability to keep their story straight, as you can see from the multitude of replies you get from them when asked the simple question "what are you?"  That's why you get ten different answers...

As I previously stated, the "multitude of replies" stems from the fact that Ulster protestants / unionsists are not a homogeneous group of people.

"Homogeneous" 

Unable to understand what you are or whether you live in a "country", a "nation", a "state", a "province", a "region" etc etc... and feeling like you are Irish, but also British, but also northern Irish but also an Ulsterman, and "even an Englishman" (to quote EG) does not to me seem like the identity of a simply non-homogeneous group of people, but rather a group of people with an identity crisis.

Acknowledging that matters of identity are invariably complex does not present a "crisis" for anyone, unless he/she is so insecure that he/she is desperate for simplicity and certainty.

I am not such a person, even if you may be.

So what can only be described as the constant indecision from the Unionist population as to whether they live in a country, or state, or region, or ('the') province, or nation, is actually just a sign of confidence and of the maturity to not look have to look for certainty? I've heard it all now.

Sorry, but to me it is a sign of identity crisis.

[Evil Genius]

My wife and I are both Belfast born. My nationality is Irish, not Northern Irish. My wife's nationality is British, not Northern Irish. Politically it's the one thing we agree on, that there's no such thing as 'Northern Irish' when it comes to nationality. That's a different thing from saying that there's no such place, or that it has no right to exist.

I don't think your wife is British, unless born on the bigger island, she would however be a UK Citizen. She would be ethnically British if her family originated from the bigger island.

Good grief! How many times does it have to be pointed out that the term "United Kingdomish" is not used; the adjective deriving from the United Kingdom is "British" i.e. any person born in any part of the UK is British.

I mean, it's hardly as if it's the only idiosyncracy in the language; for example, we still refer to the United Kingdom even when the Sovereign is female...

Bullshit your passport is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, therfore you are either British or Northern Irish depending on where you were born and the ethnicity of your parents.

Re-read what you have just posted.

Note the word "Great".

When asked their Nationality, English, Scots or Welsh do not routinely refer to themselves as "Great British", do they?

It's the same as if a Geographer asked someone living in Shetland, Anglesey, the Isle of Man, or even the Isle of Wight whether they came from "Great Britain" - their answer would have to be "No".

But if he were to ask them if they were "British" (nationality), they are perfectly entitled to answer "Yes".

As, indeed, would people from Northern Ireland....

[Evil Genius]

The planters became Irish long ago, they've just decided to back-pedal after this partition business and say "well actually we were Ulstermen/Northern Irish/British/Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish all along, you know."  And one of the surest signs that someone is telling a lie is their inability to keep their story straight, as you can see from the multitude of replies you get from them when asked the simple question "what are you?"  That's why you get ten different answers...

As I previously stated, the "multitude of replies" stems from the fact that Ulster protestants / unionsists are not a homogeneous group of people.

"Homogeneous" 

Unable to understand what you are or whether you live in a "country", a "nation", a "state", a "province", a "region" etc etc... and feeling like you are Irish, but also British, but also northern Irish but also an Ulsterman, and "even an Englishman" (to quote EG) does not to me seem like the identity of a simply non-homogeneous group of people, but rather a group of people with an identity crisis.

Acknowledging that matters of identity are invariably complex does not present a "crisis" for anyone, unless he/she is so insecure that he/she is desperate for simplicity and certainty.

I am not such a person, even if you may be.

So what can only be described as the constant indecision from the Unionist population as to whether they live in a country, or state, or region, or ('the') province, or nation, is actually just a sign of confidence and of the maturity to not look have to look for certainty? I've heard it all now.

Sorry, but to me it is a sign of identity crisis.

Aye, you've heard it. It's a shame you seem incapable of understanding it, though.

Still, that's your problem, not mine.

[Main Street]

Northern Irish, Ulster, Irish and British.
Is it an identity stew, one identity with multiple shades?

Or is each identity in a separate compartment?  with a top drawer priority identity, right down to lower drawer identity?

[Applesisapples]

My wife and I are both Belfast born. My nationality is Irish, not Northern Irish. My wife's nationality is British, not Northern Irish. Politically it's the one thing we agree on, that there's no such thing as 'Northern Irish' when it comes to nationality. That's a different thing from saying that there's no such place, or that it has no right to exist.

I don't think your wife is British, unless born on the bigger island, she would however be a UK Citizen. She would be ethnically British if her family originated from the bigger island.

Good grief! How many times does it have to be pointed out that the term "United Kingdomish" is not used; the adjective deriving from the United Kingdom is "British" i.e. any person born in any part of the UK is British.

I mean, it's hardly as if it's the only idiosyncracy in the language; for example, we still refer to the United Kingdom even when the Sovereign is female...

Bullshit your passport is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, therfore you are either British or Northern Irish depending on where you were born and the ethnicity of your parents.

Re-read what you have just posted.

Note the word "Great".

When asked their Nationality, English, Scots or Welsh do not routinely refer to themselves as "Great British", do they?

It's the same as if a Geographer asked someone living in Shetland, Anglesey, the Isle of Man, or even the Isle of Wight whether they came from "Great Britain" - their answer would have to be "No".

But if he were to ask them if they were "British" (nationality), they are perfectly entitled to answer "Yes".

As, indeed, would people from Northern Ireland....

We are indeed entitled to call ourselves what we are, but the term British or GB invariably refers to the other Island. I would seriously doubt many Scots or Welsh would call themselves British in the first instance.

[seafoid]

I think the Scots are very watery on the question of independence and that a good proportion would call themselves British. At least the ones I know would often say "British" if they were asked when abroad.   

[deiseach]

It's the same as if a Geographer asked someone living in Shetland, Anglesey, the Isle of Man, or even the Isle of Wight whether they came from "Great Britain" - their answer would have to be "No".

Where does Lindisfarne fit into this definition of the island of Great Britain?

[Nally Stand]

The planters became Irish long ago, they've just decided to back-pedal after this partition business and say "well actually we were Ulstermen/Northern Irish/British/Ulster-Scots/Scotch-Irish all along, you know."  And one of the surest signs that someone is telling a lie is their inability to keep their story straight, as you can see from the multitude of replies you get from them when asked the simple question "what are you?"  That's why you get ten different answers...

As I previously stated, the "multitude of replies" stems from the fact that Ulster protestants / unionsists are not a homogeneous group of people.

"Homogeneous" 

Unable to understand what you are or whether you live in a "country", a "nation", a "state", a "province", a "region" etc etc... and feeling like you are Irish, but also British, but also northern Irish but also an Ulsterman, and "even an Englishman" (to quote EG) does not to me seem like the identity of a simply non-homogeneous group of people, but rather a group of people with an identity crisis.

Acknowledging that matters of identity are invariably complex does not present a "crisis" for anyone, unless he/she is so insecure that he/she is desperate for simplicity and certainty.

I am not such a person, even if you may be.

So what can only be described as the constant indecision from the Unionist population as to whether they live in a country, or state, or region, or ('the') province, or nation, is actually just a sign of confidence and of the maturity to not look have to look for certainty? I've heard it all now.

Sorry, but to me it is a sign of identity crisis.

Aye, you've heard it. It's a shame you seem incapable of understanding it, though.

Still, that's your problem, not mine.

OK but leaving the arrogant and condescending attitude at the door, have you anything constructive to say in regards my post?

[deiseach]

It's the same as if a Geographer asked someone living in Shetland, Anglesey, the Isle of Man, or even the Isle of Wight whether they came from "Great Britain" - their answer would have to be "No".

Where does Lindisfarne fit into this definition of the island of Great Britain?

They were Geordies weren't they?? Fog on the Tyne is all mine, all mine...

Indeed they were. One of the funniest things I ever heard was Mark Radcliffe commenting on their collaboration with Paul Gascoigne on a remake of Fog on the Tyne: "most footballers adopt the Rex Harrison mode of speaking the words when singing. Some of them, however, can't even speak in tune . . ."

[Galwaybhoy]

"So you have to be a catholic, speak Irish, and follow GAA to be considered Irish?" - In my opinion, you are not really considered as much of a "true Irishman" if you do not meet the broad citeria that I originally listed.  That is, you are not meant to feel wholly included if you are not catholic, follow GAA etc.  I am not saying this to wind you up, it is simply how I and, I'm failry sure, others like me feel.

Wow.  I dont know what to say.  Other than thats the biggest load of rubbish I have read in some time.