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Well dunno where that came from but up Cavan. Beggan mom, what are they smoking in BBC?

Ridiculous decision, they were dying to give it to Beggan simply due to the fact that he got an NFL trial.

Personally thought Beggan should have done better for that first goal in injury time.

[An NI business in Finance/Captial Markets and IT has access to GB and EU markets]

Having read through the 11 pages of the actual report,it would be handed back to an Economics Undergraduate and He/She would be told to consider another career route

The Authors base their case for starters on an assumption that they know the amount of UK subvention into NI every Year,which is news to anyone versed in these matters as the UK government has never stated an exact total or given an exact breakdown

They then assume that a UI would need to match the current NI contribution to a UK defence Budget,(no thanks Lads,We wont be paying for Trident or Aircraft Carriers)or continue to pay a pro rata portion of UK Debt AFTER NI had left the UK or that the UK would reneage on pension contributions by NI workers paid into the UK pension pot when NI was part of the Uk.

Those 3 areas alone come to anywhere between £5 and £7 bn per annum.

it also assumes that growth rates and productivity are stuck to the floor over the next 20 years, takes no account of the savings or synergy brought about by an All Island Economy and takes no account of inputs from the likes of the EU or FDI going into the 6 counties at 26 counties levels.

This is the type of scrutiny that should be published in the media, but it doesn't make a good headline.
I know for a fact, there are quite a few large multi-national's investing in setting up offices and expanding existing operations in NI as a direct result of Brexit and the finalising of the Windsor agreement. An NI business in Finance/Captial Markets and IT has access to GB and EU markets whilst taking advantage of generally lower salaries and operating costs than in GB and ROI. We're talking high value jobs being created here and the impact of those jobs on the NI economy remain to be seen.
But I don't hear anyone in the media talking about that.

Doesn't the Framework/Protocol, dual access thingy, only apply to goods, not services??

I wouldn't even pretend to know the intricacies of the framework. But, I know 2 multinationals expanding in NI for this exact reason (I've got it first hand from senior people in both).

Is a piece of software classed as goods?
Company I work for provides services both sides of the border, across Europe, GB and the US.
I'm not clever enough to understand how that all hangs together though.

Sure the lucks been hanging out of the penalty Kick Champs (X2), why change anything? just go full of the bull until it goes pear shaped and then think about it.

Any examples of when other Ulster teams didn't go all out to win Ulster and as a direct result they won an AI?

Congratulation to you both!
Now that you've given away the venue - does that mean we're all invited to the evening do?

Having read through the 11 pages of the actual report,it would be handed back to an Economics Undergraduate and He/She would be told to consider another career route

The Authors base their case for starters on an assumption that they know the amount of UK subvention into NI every Year,which is news to anyone versed in these matters as the UK government has never stated an exact total or given an exact breakdown

They then assume that a UI would need to match the current NI contribution to a UK defence Budget,(no thanks Lads,We wont be paying for Trident or Aircraft Carriers)or continue to pay a pro rata portion of UK Debt AFTER NI had left the UK or that the UK would reneage on pension contributions by NI workers paid into the UK pension pot when NI was part of the Uk.

Those 3 areas alone come to anywhere between £5 and £7 bn per annum.

it also assumes that growth rates and productivity are stuck to the floor over the next 20 years, takes no account of the savings or synergy brought about by an All Island Economy and takes no account of inputs from the likes of the EU or FDI going into the 6 counties at 26 counties levels.

This is the type of scrutiny that should be published in the media, but it doesn't make a good headline.
I know for a fact, there are quite a few large multi-national's investing in setting up offices and expanding existing operations in NI as a direct result of Brexit and the finalising of the Windsor agreement. An NI business in Finance/Captial Markets and IT has access to GB and EU markets whilst taking advantage of generally lower salaries and operating costs than in GB and ROI. We're talking high value jobs being created here and the impact of those jobs on the NI economy remain to be seen.
But I don't hear anyone in the media talking about that.

I genuinely believe Donegal could ambush Derry.
McGuinness has been planning for it all year, they've undoubtedly improved since last year and they now have a forward or two to take some of the scoring burden off McBrearty.
Injuries will be key here - Donegal need McHugh and McBrearty fully fit and firing.
Hopefully Derry will be full strength with McKinless back, but I fully expect this game to be close.

My own take on the ranking for the ulster championship (based on form and the draw).

1 - Derry - out and out team to beat regardless of the draw. 
2 - Armagh - draw lends to an 'easier' route to the final. 
3 - Donegal - seem to be a resurgence in them, should give Derry a game with a fully fit team.
4 - Down - Should get over Antrim with no fuss, and may catch Armagh on the hop to make it to a final.
5 - Tyrone - should get over the line in their first game, likely to get beat by Derry/Donegal. 
6 - Monaghan - expect them to beat Cavan and give Tyrone a game, but fall short at this point.   
7 - Fermanagh - expect Armagh to beat them, but it will be a grind for the most of it.
8 - Cavan - no real expectations on Cavan, exit at the first hurdle. 
9 - Antrim - Down seem to be showing promise, so expect Antrim to go out at their hands handy enough. 

Derry v Armagh a likely final. 

Derry's only downfall in my eyes would be injuries to key players(Mc Guigan, Rodgers or Glass) or taking their eye off the ball. 

For Armagh to win, they would need to get over the mental hurdle of caving under the pressure of big games that has haunted them this past 3 years. 

Generally agree - but....
Monaghan could be a different prospect come championship with Beggan back and remember McManus hardly played in the league. If they have both those players available and get back to the sort of form they showed in the Dublin match, I'd expect them to beat Tyrone.

Tyrone - I just dont see it at the minute. Lots of talk about senior players returning from injury. Most of them are well past their best and will struggle to get up to championship level having not played in the league. McCurry has become very inconsistent, I do think Canavan is good but I also think he's markable. McShane might find form, but I really don't see where Tryone can score enough to trouble any of the top teams. Tactically, I think they are lacking too and reports of another player leaving the panel tends to suggest all is not well in the camp.

For me Tyrone v Monaghan is weighted towards Monaghan.

Don't expect Derry to win Ulster, no idea who will tho.

A fully fit Tyrone would have to be in with a shout, they have serious players, think it would be madness for Derry to go full throttle in Ulster if they want to lift Sam.

Can someone tell me how you don't go 'full throttle' for a championship match. The GAA is full of cliché's like this. Does Mickey tell the lads to take it easy vs Donegal in Celtic park? Does he rest key players so they are fit for the group stage in 2 months time?

The chances are Derry won't win Sam, they maybe have a 25% chance with the bookies, so you keep trying to win everything you can in my view. I'd say most Derry fans will be annoyed if they aren't in another Ulster final.

100%.
Winning the next game will be the goal from here on in. Be that Donegal in a QF or Dublin in an AI Final. There's no point in thinking about winning Ulster or Sam if you lose your next game, ultimately it makes it harder.
Harte I expect will pick the team he thinks will get the job done in any given game.

[25%. The unemployment rate is however only 2% (a great example of joke statistics).]

Everyone wants a plan from Dublin for a UI but the biggest problem is the North has 225,000 public sector employees and 590,009 private sector while the South has 370,000 public sector and 2.3m private sector. This is not even addressing the high economic inactivity rate in North at 25%. The unemployment rate is however only 2% (a great example of joke statistics).

So well over 100,000 public sector employees in North will have to lose jobs and find a job in the private sector. Where? That will have to be in the first paragraph of Dublin's plan but no one wants to read that and there's no political will in North or GB to solve that problem.

On the plus side, the South will have a €100bn sovereign wealth fund by 2035 and the Yanks might throw in a few bob to help a smooth transition.

The economic inactive includes students and retired people. Neither of which should be included. That's the problem with statistics.

So 25% of the population of NI is either retired or a student? Would never have guessed it.
In terms of NI Public sector - I feel its over inflated and there are a sizeable minority who drift through whilst not doing very much. Unions protect those people resulting in a Public Sector which is undermined by the costly under-performing minority.

Donegal deserved to win but Armagh were awful. Falling back in to all the old habits I thought they had moved away from this year (Louth match excepted).

The manner of the defeat against a Donegal who will get much better is hard to take. I'd no longer be confident of an Ulster final let alone hoping for something more. 

having saw down Fermanagh and antrim they should be making it with bit to spare.

In fairness I was maybe a little raw after the match but I am not as confident as I was before yesterday

Not saying you are one of them, but Armagh fans have unrealistic expectations for this crop of players. The team is in a better place than it was but there's  still a way to go to get to Derry's level. Is McGeeney the man, I'm not sure but I don't think there is a queue for the job.  Rian O'Neill I understand has had issues outside of the game and is being eased back in. Talking of unrealistic expectations though the fans have placed too much on his shoulders and indeed Oisin's before him. Maybe just let them play football they both are class acts on their day. It was strange I'd say that the best club team in the county didn't have one starter.

this is it in a nutshell. Our fans think we are a top 4/5 team when in reality we are far from it

How exactly are we far from a top 4/5 team. We've proven against Galway and Derry in the last 2 seasons that we are on a par with those 2 sides. Arguably should have beaten Derry last season and beat Galway in the group game. Last Sunday was undoubtedly a blow and would make you reevaluate whether we have learned anything from other recent close defeats. I think we are outside the top 3 at the minute but that can easily change on the basis of one result. Our season will be defined by the Ulster championship this year as I don't think many are realistically expecting us to win the All Ireland.

In my view it would be nice to see us just throw off the shackles and give it a go. Irrespective of whether we actually win anything if we can produce football like the 2022 back door campaign I'd be more than satisfied with that. Plus it actually suits our best players to take this approach anyway as the reality is that we've been losing tight games playing the cautious, cagey stuff anyway. 

your laast paragragh sums it up. If we played to our capabilites and threw off the shackles then we could reach the AISF. As it is, despite recent QF results we arent close. We dont play good football. We cannot close out games or win big games at CP. We dont have a midfield and we lack that real top quality forward who can guarantee you at least 5/6 points in the big big games a la Clifford or McGuigan

I couldn't argue with any of that but if we opened up and kicked the ball inside more regularly to 2 inside forwards I think we would be closer. And if not then at least we would have something to get behind. We have enough good kickers of the ball to play this style and make us less predictable. 

Clifford is a generational player so we don't need to have one of those as long as we have enough other good forwards which I firmly believe that we do. The obsession with risk free football and making every game an arm wrestle might help make us competitive but it won't actually help us win anything.   

for me Rian ONeill is a problem. First up, we wont win anything without him playing but the question is where does he play best??? He could be our forward to score 6/7/8 a game but you lose what he can bring out the field. Turbo is decent but in big games he doesnt have it. Or at least he hasnt shown it yet anyway

I personally think Armagh don't have enough scoring threat, even though there seems to be a belief that they have great forwards.
Rian ONeill has the potential to be that marquee forward, but he's a confidence player and focuses too much on the physical side of the game rather than the football side. In saying all of that, for me he could be best suited to a half forward type role and given the freedom of the park. Winning ball, running at defences, taking long range frees and scores. But the temperament needs to be right.

The tell tale sign on the true level of this Armagh side is the Ulster Final last year imo. Derry were a bit of a shambles, didn't play well, had the worst possible week leading up to an Ulster final and Armagh still couldn't beat us. Derry won that game on penalties, but it should never have got to that stage. Derry still had the mental strength to keep it together for penalties even given everything that had gone on....it really was set up for Armagh and they couldn't take advantage.
So say what you want about McGeeney, but that comes down to the quality of the players in my view.
I have a feeling that when ever McGeeney does go, Armagh might only then realise that he over-achieved with the players available. But all of that is and outside view in, so I could well be wrong.

I think Armagh are a top 8/10 side - just teetering on that line between Div 1/2. Could give anyone a game, but ultimately dont have enough to seriously challenge Dublin/Kerry and hopefully Derry.
They are in that Tyrone/Monaghan/Mayo/Roscommon bracket of teams imo.

[Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing . Probably got away with it too]

I don't think it's mockery to be honest.

It's more frustration.

A sizeable group of GAA followers - perhaps even the majority - have limited interest in rules being applied correctly, fairly or consistently. Instead they have an inner expectation that every coin toss should land in their favour.

Social media then provides an echo chamber for this approach, which allows them to feel vindicated, indeed unbiased, to have these thoughts.

It's not a GAA unique issue by the way. Soccer is drowning in "attack referee first, analyse performance second" followers. The NFL is falling down with it. Even in rugby where the players and management are almost entirely courteous to referees, suffers from it.

People are people.

Makes refereeing very difficult all the same.

I will be the first one i admit I don't know all the rules these days. However, I know what I see and that things being done inconsistently within games. A ref will blow player up for over carrying but not player B. Or charging or whatever. I've no issue with them doing that against an Armagh man but only if they apply it the same against the other team. And it's not just Armagh games I'm referring to. I've seen it in other games also. I get it can come down to the refs interpretation of a charge for example, but surely his interpretation can't change in the same game?

I'd two incidents in a game the other day... Hurling game

First was a free, over the shoulder tackle no interest in playing the ball.

Second incident, opposing team, lad reaches in over the shoulder with hurl to try and flick ball away, intentionally trying to play ball rather than trying to stop player!

Cries come for a free, followed by "what's the difference?" And "we want consistency"

Two different views, one whistle

The over the shoulder "flick" is getting pretty common in hurling, but is that not a chop down which should be a foul, no?

Not if he plays the ball, if he attempts to play ball misses, chops down or plays hurl it's a foul, but the body check style, arms out, followed by a plea of "he's dipped into it" that means nowt, players have a duty of care also.

Had to laugh, called a foul, knee high strike, absolutely nowhere near the ball. Lad says you were at that when you were playing  . Probably got away with it too

Class.

[Toss a coin to decide direction of play. Youve played a whole match with that ref, deal with it.]

I'd be an advocate of playing a period of extra time and then if it is a draw, restart on a golden score. I realise that this would bring issues in terms of "soft" frees and the players are completely wrecked... but I really hate penalties 

Wouldnt be much fun trying to get a golden score if you are playing into a gale force wind

Or with an inconsistent referee who blows a free incorrectly and the game is lost based on that.
Penalties have much less risk of allowing other factors influence the result.

And is a golden score (goal) not something that used to exist in soccer? Surely we wouldn't be going down the soccer road! 

Toss a coin to decide direction of play. Youve played a whole match with that ref, deal with it.

You've played a whole match with a ref, weather conditions, injuries etc and neither one of you could win.
Penalties to decide it - deal with it.

I'd be an advocate of playing a period of extra time and then if it is a draw, restart on a golden score. I realise that this would bring issues in terms of "soft" frees and the players are completely wrecked... but I really hate penalties 

Wouldnt be much fun trying to get a golden score if you are playing into a gale force wind

Or with an inconsistent referee who blows a free incorrectly and the game is lost based on that.
Penalties have much less risk of allowing other factors influence the result.

And is a golden score (goal) not something that used to exist in soccer? Surely we wouldn't be going down the soccer road! 

I like Sidebottom, seems like a genuinely nice guy and is a real GAA man. He played hurling himself I believe.
But....his commentary is so cheesy it puts me off.

I really like Niblock too, he's obviously knowledgeable and I love the podcast. He's an excellent presenter - not sure about his live commentary skills though.

Makes no difference, if its penalties or 45's or a one one one match up they'll all end up as a difficult loss.

The games have to be finished on the day/night no point dragging people half way round the country for replays anymore, the cost of that alone and within the football/hurling calendar it near impossible to find a space come championship.

Even at club level come championship in counties that have dual players it's a massive drain on players fitness and injuries

GAA has been using penalties in the game for as long as I can remember, its not like they have copied anyone in that regard, its now being used to finish the game, seen a game where it was either 45's or frees from the 21 when this all came about, they would have been there all night, in fact the game was cancelled by the chairman and replayed to much fanfare at the time.

Yeah I agree.
I personally like penalties. I've seen the Tyrone club championship won on penalties, Ulster championship and the now the Div 1 League. The drama and excitement adds to the experience in my view.
By having replays, there's additional cost to supporters and during a cost of living crisis where attendance at games is already expensive there'd be a huge outcry about the Grab All Association fleecing the regular supporter.
Also, in the past we've all seen replays that have been complete one-sided affairs after the underdog missed their opportunity the first day - which in my view is unfair on the underdog.

Using 45s is no better than penalties. I'd argue penalties are better as you're testing the skill of the keeper AND the penalty taker. It's also a test on being able to hold your nerve.

No matter what approach is taken to get a winner from a drawn game, there'll always be some people who are not happy. There doesnt seem to be any movement from Croke Park or the new President on doing away with penalties, so they are here to stay. Embrace it I say.

It's always horrible to get beat - in the old days one defeat in championship and you're gone. Then the back door came along, then super 8s, now the new setup. How many chances do teams need to win?