Potential New Armagh Managers (with a bit of luck we'll need one)

[Hank Everlast]

From what ive heard, not only is joe and geezer not on speaking terms but a few of the bigger names on the panel including geezer have said that they will not play under joe again!

[Armagh Exile]

Just after speaking to a journalist friend and they told me that Joe Kernan has resigned.

[corn02]

Reliable Exile?

[armaghniac]

BBC version


Joe Kernan has resigned as Armagh manager in the wake of the Orchard team's exit from the championship.
Armagh won their first All-Ireland title in 2002 in Kernan's first year in charge and they lost out to Tyrone in the decider 12 months later.
The Crossmaglen man also guided Armagh to four Ulster SFC triumphs and a national league title in 2004.
Armagh were defeated by Donegal in the Ulster SFC before Derry beat Kernan's team in the All-Ireland qualifiers.

[Uladh]

Whispers coming through if a major bust up at the executive meeting earlier this evening. strange development considering joe mor went to it seeking a further term.

[Orchard Warrior]

I'm sure noone will doubt the great things that Joe has done for Armagh in the early stages of his management. His biggest contribution was to have the vision to create the conditions for a very talented group of players to flourish. McAlinden, for all his strengths, inhibited a lot of players and his regimented approach didn't allow the team to reach its potential. Joe provided the team with state of the art facilities, exposed them to new training approaches and brought Grimley in to fine tune the team's approach and persona.

Things probably started to go wrong in 2004 when the rest of the country caught up tactics wise and Armagh were unwilling to adapt. There would have been a feeling that the approach needed to change to enable the team to develop further but it was resisted on an ongoing basis.

Joe will always be remembered for bringing the holy grail and that is how it should be.

[Uladh]

Don't want to use the tribute thread on the main page to have a debate so best to keep it here.

Bc, i understand your loyalty to your former club manager but blind faith will lead you up some very dark alleys.

Noone is doubting the great times Joe has brought to the county but the underachievement since cannot be ignored in some paltry attempt to avoid hurting the man's feelings. in my opinion, armagh's greatest ever collection of players have been largely wasted. Joe did a lot of things right but increasingly recently he did a lot of things wrong and confusingly. noone should have carte blanche over our county team, irrespective of past glories. players are judged on performance only (most of the time) and it should be no different for management.

The bottom line is that Joe lost the dressing room some time ago and last year's usurping of perceived players' ally Grimley was a misguided attempt to regain control. More informed football men in the county have increasingy realised that Joe was not taking the team in the right direction and as well as he did, Its after time for a change.

[southdown]

Armagh have probably been the most consistent team in Ireland sinse the turn of the millenium.  They should have won more than one all ireland title.  Although this period saw them capture an all aireland it could also be seen as a dissapointment that they didnt win more.  But Joe will always be remembered as the man who brought them there first sam and should be remembered in a positive way.

[pintsofguinness]

BC from another thread...

All you buzzards as rrhf so rightly called you can fcuk away off now and leave the man and his family alone.  While there may not have been direct attacks on them Uladh with his "rumours" and "stories" always had a wee side story to every event and POG with his Blue and Gold Bridge glasses cannot see beyond Creggan Bridge.

Don't talk such shite, what have I ever said that a majority of armagh fans don't agree with?
That Joe should go?
That Stephen should not be on the county panel?

And as for your comment that people should "leave him and his family alone"....where the f**k did anyone say anything about this family other that Stephen is not a county player? 
Get a grip of yourself. 

[brokencrossbar1]

POG, there has been constant sniping on the board here and in other places about how Joe is only in it to further his own family's interests, that he is only there to get all his sons playing, that nepotisnm rules his decision making. 

Like all people he has made mistakes and he is the one who must deal with that, but to say that Armagh underachieved because of Joe is plainly wrong.   In 2002 Armagh punched above their weight in my view.  They got some lucky breaks throughout the campaign and Kerry took their foot off the peddle in the second half of the final.  They were undoubtedly one of the most consistent teams of recent times, but we all got blinded by the single AI success and believed the media hype and our own delusions.

They could have won another AI and only for the Gormley block would have but I think they were at the highest level that they could have achieved. I don't buy into the whole bullshit that they should have won more.  They could have but over the peiod of 6 years that Joe was manager they won more than any other Armagh team ever did and frankly I think they were lucky to win one AI. 

I hope the new manager takes the players to this new level that everyone seems to think there is but I really think people are deluding themselves.  I agree that it is time for change but to lay the blame for Armagh's "under-achievement" at Joe Kernan's door is simply wrong.

[Uladh]

They could have but over the peiod of 6 years that Joe was manager they won more than any other Armagh team ever did and frankly I think they were lucky to win one AI. 

I hope the new manager takes the players to this new level that everyone seems to think there is but I really think people are deluding themselves.  I agree that it is time for change but to lay the blame for Armagh's "under-achievement" at Joe Kernan's door is simply wrong.

This is a Gaa discussion board and we are only here to talk about football. do you think everyone is going to agree? you have said yourself Joe made mistakes but i think we will disagree the extent of the mistakes. Surely you don't expect that to go umentioned in this day and age?

Your opinion on armagh's potential is merited though not one i would agree with. Kernan won nothing on his own and he was blessed with the talent at his disposal. there is a huge element of supporters, and tellingly players, who believe that mismanagement has cost armagh a lot of championship matches in the last 3/4 years.

[brokencrossbar1]

Uladh, of course we are here to discuss football and people will disagree.  I have my loyalties and I will stand by them. 

The reality is that Joe made decisions in crucial games which did not work out, such is the fate of a manager.  There is an old adage, players win games, managers lose them.  I think Joe has taken a lot of flak for his decisons which on their own had major influences on games.  Of all the decisions he made which did not work out, I think taking McGeeney off against Tyrone was the most glaring.

Let's look though at the bigger picture.

In 2003 Armagh were within a last ditch block of winning an AI, coupled with a bad refereeing decision.

In 2004 they were beaten in a shock result against Fermanagh, complacency beat Armagh that day.

In 2005 Tyrone beat them and Joe must take some of the blame for that outcome. However, the players had the chance that day and did not close the game out.
I
n 2006 they were beaten by the best team in the last 20 years and you could see that the players were very tired.  However, if Francie had not received the yellow card when he did things may have been different.

This year they went into the championship without the spine of the team.  He played Stephen, against the opinion of many, yet he did ok.  He played Oisin on the back of a very good year in his AI club success.  Many he shouldn't have.  He played Marsden who did not seem up to speed.  He placed faith in big Paul which, in fairness, most managers would have.  The forwards did not score enough and the changes could have been made, but players got their chance in the National League to prove they were up to it and by many accounts I have heard did not warrant playing.  After all of this, a silly goalkeeping error and a bad refereeing decision means they are out!

This sort of situation is not the fault of the manager.  In my view, Joe has made mistakes, and the players have made mistakes.  It is time for some people to realise that Armagh is not the footballing dynasty that people believe it is.  It is certainly in better shape than it was 15 years ago, but perspective is what is needed.

[Uladh]

Like any sport, Its all about opinions

I could offer vastly differing analysis on his time than yours bc but we'll not agree with each other anyway.

Whilst you cannot exonerate the players and blame joe for every failing, neither can you lavish praise on joe an exempt him from criticism because armagh have achieved silverware in this era, when its patently obvious that he has been incredibly lucky with the players he inherited

Its time for a change

[tevez]

Let's have a look at the contenders for the next Armagh manager. This is going to be a hard job, as the man who gets it will have to deal with high expectations and he will have to introduce a number of new players, but this if can be achived and the right man could take Armagh back to the top.
Not in any order
1. Grimley, seems like he had alot of influence when Armagh done well, 2003 2004 etc. Knows the players etc. But rumurs of him drinking with players etc doesn't fill me with the optimism I would like
2. J.Rafferty Was there this year but don;t know if he is the man for the job, tactially and would the players respect him and look up to him enough. Something tells me no.
3. P. Rafferty Done very well with the Under 21's. Knows the young players well, and would not e afraid to use him. Downside is that he has never been involved with county management. Have doubts,
4. McGeeney. Think of him more of a man at the minute to come in as an assistant manager. Think it is too soon for him to be the manager.

All of these men have good points, but I just have a slight gut feeling that none of them would be really the man for the job. Maybe they would I don't know.
What about somebody high profile from the outside. There would be no favourism, and the players would certainly look up to him.

What do you's think?  I haven't made up my mind yet!

[corn02]

Uladh, what happened at the meeting regarding the bust up?