John Mitchel - a lover of slavery - time to remove his name from GAA clubs?

[whitey]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I know of Kevin Lynch's, what other clubs are named after hunger strikers?

Not necessarily just clubs, but grounds and competitions too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodys-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-28527638.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gaa-ira-cup-follow-ifas-lead-sectarianism-reform-says-trevor-ringland-950353%3famp

Oh, you've changed your post totally then, there's been many a debate on these in the past, look them up

I'm sure there has, but you can't be selective in your outrage.

Either everything is on the table or nothing is on the table.

[Baile Brigín 2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

Plenty of religious iconography in other sports, do they have the same arguments? St Pats spring to mind, catholic iconography on their crest too. I think thats maybe more a county argument, clubs don't necessarily have to be as inclusive.

By the way, if this new East Belfast club names themselves after Carson or Cromwell nobody who thinks names are just namrs can object.

[Baile Brigín 2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I know of Kevin Lynch's, what other clubs are named after hunger strikers?

Not necessarily just clubs, but grounds and competitions too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodys-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-28527638.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gaa-ira-cup-follow-ifas-lead-sectarianism-reform-says-trevor-ringland-950353%3famp

Oh, you've changed your post totally then, there's been many a debate on these in the past, look them up

I'm sure there has, but you can't be selective in your outrage.

Either everything is on the table or nothing is on the table.

I don't think it should be driven by unionism, or percieved ideas of unionism, but why not?

If your club was named 140 years ago after a random rebel with no connection to the community, whats wrong with a discussion about a rebrand? I think in particular the small number of camogie and ladies football clubs who are standalone should be able to consider, now wait for it, naming themselvrs after a female figure.

But it has to be an internsl process.

[whitey]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

Plenty of religious iconography in other sports, do they have the same arguments? St Pats spring to mind, catholic iconography on their crest too. I think thats maybe more a county argument, clubs don't necessarily have to be as inclusive.

By the way, if this new East Belfast club names themselves after Carson or Cromwell nobody who thinks names are just namrs can object.

Well you could go around in circles until the cows come home

So some people are offended by words spoken 140 years ago, but aren't offended by something that actually happened 40 years ago

[whitey]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I know of Kevin Lynch's, what other clubs are named after hunger strikers?

Not necessarily just clubs, but grounds and competitions too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodys-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-28527638.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gaa-ira-cup-follow-ifas-lead-sectarianism-reform-says-trevor-ringland-950353%3famp

Oh, you've changed your post totally then, there's been many a debate on these in the past, look them up

I'm sure there has, but you can't be selective in your outrage.

Either everything is on the table or nothing is on the table.

I don't think it should be driven by unionism, or percieved ideas of unionism, but why not?

If your club was named 140 years ago after a random rebel with no connection to the community, whats wrong with a discussion about a rebrand? I think in particular the small number of camogie and ladies football clubs who are standalone should be able to consider, now wait for it, naming themselvrs after a female figure.

But it has to be an internsl process.

Completely agree. It should be left up to the members of the club to figure out and hold a vote, but having outsider dicatate what's acceptable and unacceptable is a little too precious for my liking

[Milltown Row2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I know of Kevin Lynch's, what other clubs are named after hunger strikers?

Not necessarily just clubs, but grounds and competitions too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodys-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-28527638.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gaa-ira-cup-follow-ifas-lead-sectarianism-reform-says-trevor-ringland-950353%3famp

Oh, you've changed your post totally then, there's been many a debate on these in the past, look them up

I'm sure there has, but you can't be selective in your outrage.

Either everything is on the table or nothing is on the table.

I'm not outraged, I'm not bothered to be honest, The name was taken for what it was,  to the people of that parish, a person who for them was a Irishman looking to right the wrongs in Ireland. Unbeknown to them he was in favour of the Confederates and slavery.

No google and poor enough education in those days. I doubt any of his manuscripts made it to Castlebar.

Everything on the table is a daft approach tbh. Deal with the subject matter and move on. Deal with the 'other outrage' and move on.

I'd say go back to those topics you've brought up and deal with them on that thread

[Baile Brigín 2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

Plenty of religious iconography in other sports, do they have the same arguments? St Pats spring to mind, catholic iconography on their crest too. I think thats maybe more a county argument, clubs don't necessarily have to be as inclusive.

By the way, if this new East Belfast club names themselves after Carson or Cromwell nobody who thinks names are just namrs can object.

Well you could go around in circles until the cows come home

So some people are offended by words spoken 140 years ago, but aren't offended by something that actually happened 40 years ago

Ultimately clubs have the discretion to call themselves what they want. Calling yourself after an INLA hunger striker is clearly a statement. Calling yourelf after a slaver and racist has become one. Both need to be looked at.

None of the clubs involved though can credibly call themselves cross community. No unionist will hurl for Kevin Lynch's. Very hard to sell John Mitchel to the new Irish. They are off to Castlebar Celtic. And nobody can complain.

So there are practical as well as traditional arguments

[Baile Brigín 2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I know of Kevin Lynch's, what other clubs are named after hunger strikers?

Not necessarily just clubs, but grounds and competitions too

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sunday-life-reveals-sports-bodys-controverisal-memorials-to-dead-ira-members-in-ulster-28527638.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsletter.co.uk/news/gaa-ira-cup-follow-ifas-lead-sectarianism-reform-says-trevor-ringland-950353%3famp

Oh, you've changed your post totally then, there's been many a debate on these in the past, look them up

I'm sure there has, but you can't be selective in your outrage.

Either everything is on the table or nothing is on the table.

I'm not outraged, I'm not bothered to be honest, The name was taken for what it was,  to the people of that parish, a person who for them was a Irishman looking to right the wrongs in Ireland. Unbeknown to them he was in favour of the Confederates and slavery.

No google and poor enough education in those days. I doubt any of his manuscripts made it to Castlebar.

Everything on the table is a daft approach tbh. Deal with the subject matter and move on. Deal with the 'other outrage' and move on.

I'd say go back to those topics you've brought up and deal with them on that thread

I would question tbe unbeknownst to them line.

But if he was acceptable then and now isn't, whats the problem with a name change?

[Rossfan]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

I think you'll find Constance Markievicz (nee Gore-Booth) had some connection to her native Sligo

[BennyCake]

Here's a thought...

If we're going waaaaay back here about controversial figures, alleged racism, slavery etc.... Could we not say that the actual foundation of the GAA was xenophobic? An organisation that did not include the sports associated with another country in its setup, and then banning its own members from watching/participating in these "foreign games"?

Maybe the GAA as an organisation needs closing down?

[Baile Brigín 2]

So what about the clubs in the 6 counties, named after INLA members and Hunger Strikers

I'm sure many people in the broader community would find those names objectionable......should they be changed?

What about a club or county logo that promotes one religion over another?  Should new logos and crests be mandated?

(I could be mistaken, but naming clubs after Nationalist icons was very common in the early years of the organization-so the older the club, the more likely they would have such an association)

At least you could argue Kevin Lynch was a member of the club.

Mitchel died 23 years before the GAA was founded. I doubt Roger Casement or Countess Markievicz were big sports fan, and had hee haw to do with Belfast or Sligo. I think the arbitrary nature of naming may come home to roost.

I think you'll find Constance Markievicz (nee Gore-Booth) had some connection to her native Sligo

Her granparents lived there. Tenious.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Here's a thought...

If we're going waaaaay back here about controversial figures, alleged racism, slavery etc.... Could we not say that the actual foundation of the GAA was xenophobic? An organisation that did not include the sports associated with another country in its setup, and then banning its own members from watching/participating in these "foreign games"?

Maybe the GAA as an organisation needs closing down?

And the GAA grew out of those positions. So why not this one too?

[Baile Brigín 2]

And Roger Casement may have had no connection to Belfast but he did to County Antrim, which is why they named the county ground after him, which happens to be in Belfast.

Ok, he lived in Antrim for 3 years as a kid, so I will walk that back somewhat. But he isn't exactly linked intimately with the place. Is there no other local figure?

[BennyCake]

Aye, Mickey Marley.

Marley Park? Oh, name's taken.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Aye, Mickey Marley.

Had to google that.

Isn't it odd that very few clubs commemorate working class/labour figures. Always the catholic nationalist side.

Dozens of Pearses. One named after Connolly. And thats in Glasgow.

Are amy GAA clubs named after women who aren't St. Bridget?