https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/courts/co-antrim-bar-owner-and-former-gaelic-all-star-fergal-doherty-charged-with-manslaughter-of-customer-aaron-law-42115873.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/courts/co-antrim-bar-owner-and-former-gaelic-all-star-fergal-doherty-charged-with-manslaughter-of-customer-aaron-law-42115873.html)
Awful for all involved. Reading that it sounds like self defence so hopefully gets off
Absolutely awful, for everyone involved
@the prodigy
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
Awful for all involved. Reading that it sounds like self defence so hopefully gets off
I wouldn't say that until I had heard all the facts. But it goes to show what can happen.
Quote from: trailer on November 03, 2022, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2022, 12:36:31 PM
Awful for all involved. Reading that it sounds like self defence so hopefully gets off
I wouldn't say that until I had heard all the facts. But it goes to show what can happen.
Was going to say same thing one punch will have devastated two families here..
Chat on the Tyrone threads about the digging off the ball will result in the same outcome very soon
Horrible situation with a man losing his life.
Hard to know what to say really the whole community is bound to be in shock about it all with the loss of such a young life and such a big community figure currently awaiting a manslaughter trial in jail.
Just horrendous all round!
Awful thing. One punch killings are awful.
Leaving him lying in the road is probably the biggest alarm bell I would have here and could make for a difficult defence!
Knew about this few days ago, hence highlighting some lads attitude on the Tyrone thread about the Clonoe game.
An awful tragedy for all involved, one family without a father and another one looking at jail.
One thing I never understand; and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but once they're outside of the premises the doorman's job is done. If they continue to act up, go inside and close the door for 5 mins. They'll soon get bored and clear off. Don't engage with them. Its a pity so many doormen are morons who are more than happy to indulge in verbals with someone clearly intoxicated.
I also think that the self-defence argument might not cut it, if you're paying the doorman why get involved yourself? What are you paying him for?
Desperately sad for all involved. So many things had to happen to lead to that tragedy,.
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 01:14:14 PM
Awful thing. One punch killings are awful.
Leaving him lying in the road is probably the biggest alarm bell I would have here and could make for a difficult defence!
Didnt read great tbh
would it be considered out of character for him? don't recall him as a dirty player when playing for Derry.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 03, 2022, 01:42:57 PM
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 01:14:14 PM
Awful thing. One punch killings are awful.
Leaving him lying in the road is probably the biggest alarm bell I would have here and could make for a difficult defence!
Didnt read great tbh
I agree, hard to argue having remorse (for the incident in itself, not the death) leaving him lying there, and then propping him against a wall
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2022, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 03, 2022, 01:51:00 PM
would it be considered out of character for him? don't recall him as a dirty player when playing for Derry.
https://m.facebook.com/BallsGAA/videos/monster-hit-by-derrys-fergal-doherty/784187174985767/ (https://m.facebook.com/BallsGAA/videos/monster-hit-by-derrys-fergal-doherty/784187174985767/)
I think this is unfair tbh.
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on November 03, 2022, 02:07:57 PM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on November 03, 2022, 01:42:57 PM
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 01:14:14 PM
Awful thing. One punch killings are awful.
Leaving him lying in the road is probably the biggest alarm bell I would have here and could make for a difficult defence!
Didnt read great tbh
I agree, hard to argue having remorse (for the incident in itself, not the death) leaving him lying there, and then propping him against a wall
Yep. He may be innocent on the punch itself on grounds of self-defense, but how do you defend their conduct afterwards? According to the story a car almost ran over the victim when he was lying in the road. Can't be just panic when they had the wherewithal to eventually prop him up. We're not talking young teenagers here. Would prompt medical treatment have saved him? Even if he gets off on the punch, surely, if things went down as alleged, there is still a criminal case to answer?
Would it not be fair to suggest that immediately after an altercation, the least natural thing for a human to do, is to check on the health of their assailant? The very purpose of fighting / fighting back is to prevent the other purpose from being able to attack you.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 03, 2022, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 03, 2022, 01:51:00 PM
would it be considered out of character for him? don't recall him as a dirty player when playing for Derry.
https://m.facebook.com/BallsGAA/videos/monster-hit-by-derrys-fergal-doherty/784187174985767/ (https://m.facebook.com/BallsGAA/videos/monster-hit-by-derrys-fergal-doherty/784187174985767/)
What a lowlife to post that, its got feck all to do with it. its a shoulder tackle that was legitimate at the time of the game.
Fs that's disgusting.
A real tragedy. The deceased had 2 kids. Awful.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 02:46:59 PM
Would it not be fair to suggest that immediately after an altercation, the least natural thing for a human to do, is to check on the health of their assailant? The very purpose of fighting / fighting back is to prevent the other purpose from being able to attack you.
Would ya stop.You don't leave someone unconscious in the middle of a road.
Quote from: Tubberman on November 03, 2022, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 02:46:59 PM
Would it not be fair to suggest that immediately after an altercation, the least natural thing for a human to do, is to check on the health of their assailant? The very purpose of fighting / fighting back is to prevent the other purpose from being able to attack you.
Would ya stop.You don't leave someone unconscious in the middle of a road.
It's about 30 years since I connected a punch, so I'm no expert in the appropriate decorum after taking a man's head off.
But I worked in plenty of pubs, some with door staff, some without. And never have I seen a member of staff go to to check on the health of someone who was forcibly removed.
Nor have I seen a brawl in a street end with one man on the ground and his opponent standing over him checking he is okay.
Joe Brolly taking the case.
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 03, 2022, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 02:46:59 PM
Would it not be fair to suggest that immediately after an altercation, the least natural thing for a human to do, is to check on the health of their assailant? The very purpose of fighting / fighting back is to prevent the other purpose from being able to attack you.
Would ya stop.You don't leave someone unconscious in the middle of a road.
It's about 30 years since I connected a punch, so I'm no expert in the appropriate decorum after taking a man's head off.
But I worked in plenty of pubs, some with door staff, some without. And never have I seen a member of staff go to to check on the health of someone who was forcibly removed.
Nor have I seen a brawl in a street end with one man on the ground and his opponent standing over him checking he is okay.
Its not a normal fight situation here
Doormen have a duty of care (I know most of them don't usually act with respect but thats no excuse)
The person who threw the punch in this case owned the premises - to leave the victim lying for 15mins and not check on him even after a minute is not right in my opinion.
Quote from: clarshack on November 03, 2022, 01:51:00 PM
would it be considered out of character for him? don't recall him as a dirty player when playing for Derry.
No comparison to be made or parallel to be drawn here whatsoever.
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 03:25:05 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on November 03, 2022, 03:07:35 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on November 03, 2022, 02:46:59 PM
Would it not be fair to suggest that immediately after an altercation, the least natural thing for a human to do, is to check on the health of their assailant? The very purpose of fighting / fighting back is to prevent the other purpose from being able to attack you.
Would ya stop.You don't leave someone unconscious in the middle of a road.
It's about 30 years since I connected a punch, so I'm no expert in the appropriate decorum after taking a man's head off.
But I worked in plenty of pubs, some with door staff, some without. And never have I seen a member of staff go to to check on the health of someone who was forcibly removed.
Nor have I seen a brawl in a street end with one man on the ground and his opponent standing over him checking he is okay.
Its not a normal fight situation here
Doormen have a duty of care (I know most of them don't usually act with respect but thats no excuse)
The person who threw the punch in this case owned the premises - to leave the victim lying for 15mins and not check on him even after a minute is not right in my opinion.
In the immediate aftermath of something like that, ie within seconds it probably wouldn't be a natural thing to do no. I am assuming he knew he put him on the ground and knew he was still there minutes after he had done it, which is completely different.
Quote from: gallsman on November 03, 2022, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: clarshack on November 03, 2022, 01:51:00 PM
would it be considered out of character for him? don't recall him as a dirty player when playing for Derry.
No comparison to be made or parallel to be drawn here whatsoever.
Yeah 100%
For what it's worth I would have said this was out of character for him.
The problem is that when someone is intoxicated, it takes very little to knock them down. Plus they aren't going to protect their head whilst falling in the same way a sober person is. Any sort of head blow can be absolutely devastating.
Why did he get involved?
There were doormen there?
Absolutely tragic situation for all involved.
Really I wouldn't want to pass comment on either party as nobody here really knows what happened.
The sad truth is there is a family who have lost a father and another where the father is currently in prison.
There are no winners here no matter what the outcome.
Devastating for all involved.
Very tragic and it can happen to anyone. However its the actions or in this case the lack of actions which is the issue. Leaving someone out there for 15 mins and then dragging them in without any kind of assistance is the big issue along with lying to the police at the initial stage.
If he was in a party in relation to a stag night, I wondered why no- one had went out after him to check where he went, after been put out. Most small bars don't need a bouncer, the rear /side door, at this bar is at the side of the road at a t junction. You can Literally walk out onto the road at this point. Tragic for all Involved, and 2 young kids left no father.
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Quote from: eachaidh on November 03, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Advice noted. What is wrong with posting opinions?
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on November 03, 2022, 06:36:32 PM
Quote from: eachaidh on November 03, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Advice noted. What is wrong with posting opinions?
Another forum I read/post on have done this re the Mason Greenwood case, no discussion at all allowed on threat of banning.
Reason given is that anything posted could prejudice the case and get the forum into bother. Probably a bit extreme but they're just erring on side of caution.
Quote from: eachaidh on November 03, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Don't think there has been anything posted on this thread (so far) that wasn't mentioned in any of the newspaper or tv reports that I have watched and read today.
EC Unique is the only man that can shut down threads
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on November 03, 2022, 06:36:32 PM
Quote from: eachaidh on November 03, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Advice noted. What is wrong with posting opinions?
I remember there being trouble around the Irish rugby trial and tweets that had been posted by members of the public. There were fears it could sway the jury.
Obviously some people have strong opinions either way given the parochial nature of the GAA so it's dodgy territory to be in for a discussion forum.
No need to shut or lock this thread, irrelevant that ots a local person involved.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on November 03, 2022, 01:17:34 PM
Knew about this few days ago, hence highlighting some lads attitude on the Tyrone thread about the Clonoe game.
Think the difference between an incident such as this and any on field assault is that the death seems to occurs from the head banging off a pavement or kerb not from the punch itself.
Quote from: eachaidh on November 03, 2022, 06:03:51 PM
This is now a live criminal case and it is extremely unwise for anyone on this site to be posting opinions about alleged facts.
If there are admins on GAABoard, I'd advise you close this thread
Pffffft.
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 03, 2022, 04:03:24 PM
Absolutely tragic situation for all involved.
Really I wouldn't want to pass comment on either party as nobody here really knows what happened.
The sad truth is there is a family who have lost a father and another where the father is currently in prison.
There are no winners here no matter what the outcome.
Devastating for all involved.
The defence and prosecutors have agreed on the events reported in the media? All I see here is people talking about whats reported unless I'm missing something?
I hope the lesson learned out of this incident is that anyone who feels like throwing a punch (whether in the heat of the moment or otherwise) can lead to terrible consequences.
.
Quote from: tyrone08 on November 03, 2022, 04:54:31 PM
Very tragic and it can happen to anyone. However its the actions or in this case the lack of actions which is the issue. Leaving someone out there for 15 mins and then dragging them in without any kind of assistance is the big issue along with lying to the police at the initial stage.
Yes and Doherty was refused bail because of a few other incidents.
Where did you read that? The article I read said it was due to it being a small community and the potential to interfere with witnesses which tbh I thought odd but no expert in these things
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 03, 2022, 08:57:31 PM
. Quote from: tyrone08 on November 03, 2022, 04:54:31 PM
Very tragic and it can happen to anyone. However its the actions or in this case the lack of actions which is the issue. Leaving someone out there for 15 mins and then dragging them in without any kind of assistance is the big issue along with lying to the police at the initial stage.
Yes and Doherty was refused bail because of a few other incidents.
Where are you pulling that from??
I didn't read anything saying that either, but one report, possibly the Telegraph, mentioned one of the reasons for objecting to bail was the likelihood of re-offending, which I found a bit odd.
It was on the RTE website report. Joe Brolly objected to it being used as a reason for refusing bail as well as the other reasons.
Think the Belfast Live fb page alluded to previous incidents/outsanding allegations which Brolly wasnt happy with
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2022, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 03, 2022, 08:57:31 PM
. Quote from: tyrone08 on November 03, 2022, 04:54:31 PM
Very tragic and it can happen to anyone. However its the actions or in this case the lack of actions which is the issue. Leaving someone out there for 15 mins and then dragging them in without any kind of assistance is the big issue along with lying to the police at the initial stage.
Yes and Doherty was refused bail because of a few other incidents.
Where are you pulling that from??
From the RTE report..
Police objected to bail, contending he is likely to reoffend, adding they are looking into reports of allegations of other assaults, and that there are witnesses to the weekend's events that they have still to speak to.
Barrister Joe Brolly, acting for Mr Doherty, objected to allegations of previous assaults being raised, saying "this is already a difficult situation where a young man has lost his life".
He referred to "speculative incidents that haven't been investigated".
"It's entirely prejudicial in the absence of any evidence that would be acceptable in a court of law," he said.
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2022, 09:23:39 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on November 03, 2022, 08:57:31 PM
. Quote from: tyrone08 on November 03, 2022, 04:54:31 PM
Very tragic and it can happen to anyone. However its the actions or in this case the lack of actions which is the issue. Leaving someone out there for 15 mins and then dragging them in without any kind of assistance is the big issue along with lying to the police at the initial stage.
Yes and Doherty was refused bail because of a few other incidents.
Where are you pulling that from??
From RTE...
You didn't read it very well that's not what the RTE article says...
Quote"There is a concern that the court would have that there is a risk that the defendant could either interfere with the investigation or the course of justice. That was the only reason I'm not minded to admit him to bail,"
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
RTE news report says that the police objected to bail on grounds they were investigating other assault allegations and that there were witnesses they still needed to speak to.
The same article also goes on to say judge refused just on the fact there were witnesses still to speak to first.
So you are both sort of right.
Quote from: screenexile on November 03, 2022, 11:35:31 PM
You didn't read it very well that's not what the RTE article says...
Quote"There is a concern that the court would have that there is a risk that the defendant could either interfere with the investigation or the course of justice. That was the only reason I'm not minded to admit him to bail,"
Well you didn't read it very well either..
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
Leaving him on the road for 15 minutes and then propped up against the bar without calling an ambulance seem to be the 2 key points for the prosecution.
A lot of lads speculating here on something they have just read about in a newspaper. Two families caught up in this very tragic incident and a man dead.
Can you not all wait for the final verdict and the whole story to come out before jumping to conclusions and assumptions?
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on November 04, 2022, 12:50:06 PM
A lot of lads speculating here on something they have just read about in a newspaper. Two families caught up in this very tragic incident and a man dead.
Can you not all wait for the final verdict and the whole story to come out before jumping to conclusions and assumptions?
People discuss newsworthy events, that's life.
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2022, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
Leaving him on the road for 15 minutes and then propped up against the bar without calling an ambulance seem to be the 2 key points for the prosecution.
They wouldn't be factors in terms of securing the conviction but would be relevant to sentencing if an individual is convicted
Am 10mins down the road from this hence not gonna really comment online, but it best wait to the full details on what happened, is released,
A very sad situation , praying for everybody
Quote from: David McKeown on November 04, 2022, 01:35:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2022, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
Leaving him on the road for 15 minutes and then propped up against the bar without calling an ambulance seem to be the 2 key points for the prosecution.
They wouldn't be factors in terms of securing the conviction but would be relevant to sentencing if an individual is convicted
That's interesting, didn't know that.
Quote from: WT4E on November 03, 2022, 08:41:36 PM
Quote from: tbrick18 on November 03, 2022, 04:03:24 PM
Absolutely tragic situation for all involved.
Really I wouldn't want to pass comment on either party as nobody here really knows what happened.
The sad truth is there is a family who have lost a father and another where the father is currently in prison.
There are no winners here no matter what the outcome.
Devastating for all involved.
The defence and prosecutors have agreed on the events reported in the media? All I see here is people talking about whats reported unless I'm missing something?
Not referring to anything anyone has said on here, its just a general comment.
I dont like the trial by media type stuff that happens in these cases and newspaper reports are just someone's version of events, not necessarily fact.
I feel sorry for all involved.
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2022, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on November 04, 2022, 01:35:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2022, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
Leaving him on the road for 15 minutes and then propped up against the bar without calling an ambulance seem to be the 2 key points for the prosecution.
They wouldn't be factors in terms of securing the conviction but would be relevant to sentencing if an individual is convicted
That's interesting, didn't know that.
I see Mr Justice O'Hara the senior criminal judge made this exact point today in granting bail
Quote from: David McKeown on November 09, 2022, 06:01:17 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on November 04, 2022, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on November 04, 2022, 01:35:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 04, 2022, 12:02:33 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on November 03, 2022, 11:50:16 PM
The headline of nearly every article online makes mention of the fact that he appears to have left the chap unresponsive for so long. Difficult to muster much sympathy if that indeed proves to be the case. As said above its generally the fall that does the damage. If you are 6 foot tall and you go down like you've been felled that's a long way for your head to travel towards a kerb at speed.
Leaving him on the road for 15 minutes and then propped up against the bar without calling an ambulance seem to be the 2 key points for the prosecution.
They wouldn't be factors in terms of securing the conviction but would be relevant to sentencing if an individual is convicted
That's interesting, didn't know that.
I see Mr Justice O'Hara the senior criminal judge made this exact point today in granting bail
Must have been looking in here
We all follow David for his legal expertise no shame in a judge doing likewise 😃
Sure its either David or thon Bcb1 gipe 😉😃
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html)
Quote from: cornerback on September 28, 2023, 01:01:00 PMhttps://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html)
Sad state of affairs for everyone.
Quote from: cornerback on September 28, 2023, 01:01:00 PMhttps://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html (https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/gaa/manslaughter-charge-against-former-derry-gaa-star-withdrawn/a410368988.html)
QuotePreviously, defence barrister Joe Brolly had contended that "it's as obvious a case of self-defence as I have come across in 30 years of practice as a criminal defence barrister".
Regardless of the legality of self defence or not his actions after it were horrendous. Who drags a human and dumps him at the side of a wall.
If you are in a car crash and leave you are charged with leaving the scene of an accident. How he got away with this I will never know
Quote from: tyrone08 on September 28, 2023, 05:33:49 PMRegardless of the legality of self defence or not his actions after it were horrendous. Who drags a human and dumps him at the side of a wall.
If you are in a car crash and leave you are charged with leaving the scene of an accident. How he got away with this I will never know
It appears he didn't commit a crime
Is it common in these kind of events that the person doesn't get charged David? Is this in any way related to the family not pursuing?
I don't know the ins and outs of how these things work but when I read about it I did think Doherty was in for a good few years at least in jail.
It's a very sad situation tbh. I doubt he meant to do what was done but leaving the boy there the way he did wasn't a good look either. No winners.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 28, 2023, 05:54:30 PMIs it common in these kind of events that the person doesn't get charged David? Is this in any way related to the family not pursuing?
I don't know the ins and outs of how these things work but when I read about it I did think Doherty was in for a good few years at least in jail.
It's a very sad situation tbh. I doubt he meant to do what was done but leaving the boy there the way he did wasn't a good look either. No winners.
Its hard to say whats common and whats not because each case is usually fact specific.
The actions after the fatal blow though rarely impact upon the decision to charge.
In any case resulting in a death the PPS have to apply a two stage test. First is there a reasonable prospect of conviction? Secondly is it in the public interest. In cases like this involving a death the PPS have to consider two things at that first stage. One can they prove that the defendant caused the death and secondly what level of intent can they prove.
If they can prove a defendant unlawfully caused a death and that he intended to cause that death or to cause really serious harm then they prosecute for murder.
If they can prove a defendant unlawfully caused a death but not intend to kill or cause really serious harm then they can prosecute for manslaughter.
If they cant prove the defendant unlawfully caused the death then no prosecution is the correct decision.
I say to show that what happens after the death is usually irrelevant save for times it would should the intent of the defendant.
From what I have read about this case it would appear that the issue was whether or not the defendant acted unlawfully. If that's right nothing after the fatal blow is relevant.
The law also allows you to use self defence provided it is appropriate and proportionate to what you honestly believe is happening (not reasonably believe just honestly believe). That seems to be the issue here as it is in a lot of one punch cases. If the defendant was acting in accordance with an honest believe a single punch in self defence is likely to be considered proportionate and reasonable. If thats the view of the PPS then a no prosecution decision is the correct one.
In answer to your other question, the views of the deceased's family will be considered if the first stage of the above test for prosecution is met but the views of the family will ultimately be unlikely to stop a prosecution as there's a considerable public interest in prosecuting all cases involving a death. Also I see the family appear to have requested a review of the PPS decision not to prosecute.
It is indeed a very sad situation for all involved
Thanks David that's very interesting.
I have heard it said that the victim was not unconscious immediately after the incident, and that members of the stag party were supposedly keeping an eye on him outside, but nobody realised the severity of the situation.
Feel very sorry for everyone involved.
The whole thing is a tragedy and nothing can change that.
I can't comment on the rights or wrongs as I don't know enough about it, but Doherty will have to live with what happened and a family will have to live without a father.
Doherty will no doubt have his name tarnished regardless of legal outcome as that seems to be the way these things work, but I doubt that gives the family any closure or sense of justice.
No winners here.
Quote from: Caesar on September 29, 2023, 10:59:52 AMI have heard it said that the victim was not unconscious immediately after the incident, and that members of the stag party were supposedly keeping an eye on him outside, but nobody realised the severity of the situation.
Feel very sorry for everyone involved.
Sad state of affairs all round. Nobody woke up that morning intending to do what they did.
Surprised the incident in Rostrevor hasn't been mentioned
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/co-down-gaa-player-21-in-induced-coma-following-easter-sunday-assault-we-pray-he-makes-a-speedy-recovery/a2133480377.html
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 08, 2024, 10:56:00 AMSurprised the incident in Rostrevor hasn't been mentioned
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/co-down-gaa-player-21-in-induced-coma-following-easter-sunday-assault-we-pray-he-makes-a-speedy-recovery/a2133480377.html
Any update on this lad? Is he doing any better?