Murder of Aisling Murphy

[Truthsayer]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

[Milltown Row2]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process.
 

Here's a scenario when we talk about victims and their priorities. The Gilford 4 and Birmingham 6 were arrested trialled and convicted, the families on both sides suffered awful injustice

Getting it right for both is important, every case is different and not as clear cut as us armchair viewers think.

It's not perfect as I've shown above, the mistakes made in the past present changes in the law to help not make those mistakes again but seems defence have loopholes to get what's best for their clients

On this particular case I hope they rot in some pit of a place for the rest of their lives for helping that murdering sc**bag

[Truthsayer]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process.
 

Here's a scenario when we talk about victims and their priorities. The Gilford 4 and Birmingham 6 were arrested trialled and convicted, the families on both sides suffered awful injustice

Getting it right for both is important, every case is different and not as clear cut as us armchair viewers think.

It's not perfect as I've shown above, the mistakes made in the past present changes in the law to help not make those mistakes again but seems defence have loopholes to get what's best for their clients

On this particular case I hope they rot in some pit of a place for the rest of their lives for helping that murdering sc**bag

Can't disagree with any of that. The debate started with bail for the ones who tried to cover the murder. I just don't see why they get bail after conviction.
And other example was the man accused of rape and murder of the showjumper in Fermanagh. He got bail!.. and suicided..
That was the debate about bail on very serious charge... debate went off on other tagents.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

I don't agree nor disagree but is victim the right word in this instance?

[Truthsayer]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

I don't agree nor disagree but is victim the right word in this instance?

I see what you're getting at. The Victim Charter is rights for 'victims' before and after a conviction is secured.

[David McKeown]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

I don't agree nor disagree but is victim the right word in this instance?

I see what you're getting at. The Victim Charter is rights for 'victims' before and after a conviction is secured.

When I started about 18 years the term used was injured parties. Then it became alleged injured parties. Now it's complainants. That said there has been a far greater and much needed focus on victims rights. Victim impact statements are be coming more common. Special measures are becoming more widely used. Views of complainants are sought in respect of alternative charges etc. There is obviously a lot more can be done. The difficulty is as one Judge pointed out to me years ago. The right to a fair trial only applies to defendants.

[Truthsayer]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

I don't agree nor disagree but is victim the right word in this instance?

I see what you're getting at. The Victim Charter is rights for 'victims' before and after a conviction is secured.

When I started about 18 years the term used was injured parties. Then it became alleged injured parties. Now it's complainants. That said there has been a far greater and much needed focus on victims rights. Victim impact statements are be coming more common. Special measures are becoming more widely used. Views of complainants are sought in respect of alternative charges etc. There is obviously a lot more can be done. The difficulty is as one Judge pointed out to me years ago. The right to a fair trial only applies to defendants.

We're coming from our own experiences and I suppose viewpoints. I have an amount of knowledge of the workings of the courts and have felt frustrated with it all regarding complainents/victims' rights. 
I respect you have a greater knowledge and it isn't a debate can be fully dissected and sorted on social media.. judiciary still evolving hopefully and trying to do that with fair rights for all.. accused & victim.

[David McKeown]

What happened  other post where you blamed it all on lawyers on the take?

Is that directed at me?

Was too long and stuff personal to a local case. I didn't say 'all' lawyers.. is cases dragged out forever and I am aware every 'mention', as listed in court papers, is £££ for lawyers. And after 2 years... jury sworn in, trial ready to start... client rearraigned and 'guilty' plea, Why is that? you think could have been plea ages before. I'll keep debate with you David. Not directed at you personally. I don't even know you.
Gallsman keen to get even with me for proving him wrong on the Kneecap case   

It's certainly not £££ for lawyers. There's no mention fees in the Magistrates Court at all and fees in the Crown court are between £64 and £86 and to get that weve usually spent at least 3 or 4 hours on the case between reading preparing and attending. No lawyers are getting rich of mentions.

As for defendants pleading at the last minute there's often very good reason for that. They can range from defendants waiting to see if witnesses will attend court, whether expert evidence benefits them, whether pleas to lesser sentences can be taken etc. Lawyers aren't profiting from that either and defence lawyers definitely aren't the ones dragging it out. Dragging out cases doesn't aid lawyers. I recently finished a high profile murder that took over three years for a range of reasons the fee was relatively low and much less than I could make in other courts or other types of work.  The way fees work the vast majority of the fee was made immediately and the extra fees were very small.

Fair enough and defendants have their rights and you have your job to do. In my experience the rights of victims can be very secondary and these cases dragging out (what often seems unnecessarily) for ages are torturous. And bail with defendants up on very serious offences back in the home town of the victim.
Victims seem very far down in priority in the whole process... an after thought.
 

I don't agree nor disagree but is victim the right word in this instance?

I see what you're getting at. The Victim Charter is rights for 'victims' before and after a conviction is secured.

When I started about 18 years the term used was injured parties. Then it became alleged injured parties. Now it's complainants. That said there has been a far greater and much needed focus on victims rights. Victim impact statements are be coming more common. Special measures are becoming more widely used. Views of complainants are sought in respect of alternative charges etc. There is obviously a lot more can be done. The difficulty is as one Judge pointed out to me years ago. The right to a fair trial only applies to defendants.

We're coming from our own experiences and I suppose viewpoints. I have an amount of knowledge of the workings of the courts and have felt frustrated with it all regarding complainents/victims' rights. 
I respect you have a greater knowledge and it isn't a debate can be fully dissected and sorted on social media.. judiciary still evolving hopefully and trying to do that with fair rights for all.. accused & victim.

It's a very difficult process and massively under resourced which still has a long way to go. I genuinely think everyone is trying within the confines of a good but far from ideal system.