The Advanced Mark

[thewobbler]

Trileac I would think the biggest difference in what we are suggesting boils down to the most likely outcomes:

- If there's a restriction on fist passing, the unintended outcome (I expect) is that players will hoof the ball away as far as they can, especially if there's any semblance of pressure. Which doesn't strike me as a skilled pursuit. Kicking the ball over the sideline would often be a better result than taking a second to look up, and getting bottled up.

- if there's a restriction on when you can pass a ball backwards ie at the 65s, your "get out" ball becomes a punt as close to the square as you can manage. This isn't necessarily more skilled, but it is more tactical: keeping 2-3 players close to goal at all times, thereby playing the percentages, becomes a necessity. Hence the balance of possession can territory would be restored a little.

[thewobbler]

Also I get your reservations about teams not  leaving their own half. But if 10-12 men press into the opposition 65, the opposition would have to leave that sector of the field. They'll have no choice, because there just won't be the room to guarantee ball retention, and when it's coughed up, it'll be usually in kicking range.

Think of James Carr when he came in yesterday. He made a series of lung busting runs across the field. All futile, because his tiring teammates couldn't block off the entire field. Like everyone else, he soon settled down into guarding some space rather than closing it down.

Gaelic football is the only sport on this earth where teams are provided an advantage for interminably  holding onto the ball without doing anything with that possession. Soccer used to have this when you could pass it back to the keeper. One small rule change changed the game immeasurably for the better.

[trileacman]

Also I get your reservations about teams not  leaving their own half. But if 10-12 men press into the opposition 65, the opposition would have to leave that sector of the field. They'll have no choice, because there just won't be the room to guarantee ball retention, and when it's coughed up, it'll be usually in

I've never seen that to be true though. Name a match where a team have pushed 10-12 of their player up into the opponent's half? I haven't seen it happen consistently mostly because it's very hard to co-ordinate and difficult to maintain for 70 minutes.

The James Carr thing reinforces my point. Whether in terms of fitness or tactics it's easier to pack your own defence with men and start defending there. That's why pretty much every team does it. So surely where a team are punished for crossing into your defensive area you'd just pack that area with players and wait for them to enter?

[highorlow]

Quick fact check here.

On another forum Rory Brickendeen is coming in for some criticism for shooting when he called the mark in the late stages of last nights match v Kerry.

Some posters think he had the choice to pass the ball, my understanding is once an advanced mark is called the player must shoot within 15 seconds?

Who's correct here? Could Brickedeen have passed the ball or not after he chose to take the mark.

[JoG2]

Quick fact check here.

On another forum Rory Brickendeen is coming in for some criticism for shooting when he called the mark.

Some posters think he had the choice to pass the ball, my understanding is once an advanced mark is called the player must shoot within 15 seconds?

Who's correct here? Could Brickedeen have passed the ball or not?

Of course he can pass

[Milltown Row2]

Quick fact check here.

On another forum Rory Brickendeen is coming in for some criticism for shooting when he called the mark.

Some posters think he had the choice to pass the ball, my understanding is once an advanced mark is called the player must shoot within 15 seconds?

Who's correct here? Could Brickedeen have passed the ball or not?

Of course he can pass

He can pass or shoot.. calling the mark means he has space and 15 seconds to do either.

[Milltown Row2]

Jarlth has plans to look at the game of football and change its negativity

Going to be difficult

[thewobbler]

Jarlth has plans to look at the game of football and change its negativity

Going to be difficult

I vowed never to type this up again. But I can't help it.

The fundamental problem with football is that the value of possession greatly outweighs the value of territory.

So instead of the rule makers looking at gimmicks - like the advanced mark - they need to look at the fundamental structures of the game.

Bring in the half court rule (no returning over either 45) and bring in a substantial penalty for breaking the rule (45m free from hand or the ground).

There will be a period of adjustment when (particular club) teams who've spent the past 10 years protecting the D, are afraid to leave the D at all. But it'll slowly dawn on everyone that when the opposition press you, the best thing you can do is move the ball quickly into the spaces left in their half. And I before long they'll understand that if they don't score every time it doesn't matter - as the ball will be returned to them much more often under these principles.

[Milltown Row2]

Surely just leave defenders in defence forwards stay up front and midfielders can roam the pitch?

[thewobbler]

Surely just leave defenders in defence forwards stay up front and midfielders can roam the pitch?

See that's roughly how I think things would pan out with the half court rule. Some teams would stick to counter attacking football, which is no bad thing in itself so long as they don't have elongated possession before pressing go, but even the most rigid defensive structure would need at least one totem full forward as the plan b / blind alley option. For if they don't have that, they're just going to keep giving the pressing team the ball back.

[Milltown Row2]

Surely just leave defenders in defence forwards stay up front and midfielders can roam the pitch?

See that's roughly how I think things would pan out with the half court rule. Some teams would stick to counter attacking football, which is no bad thing in itself so long as they don't have elongated possession before pressing go, but even the most rigid defensive structure would need at least one totem full forward as the plan b / blind alley option. For if they don't have that, they're just going to keep giving the pressing team the ball back.

Mine, from a referee's perspective is easier to manage

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

Surely just leave defenders in defence forwards stay up front and midfielders can roam the pitch?

See that's roughly how I think things would pan out with the half court rule. Some teams would stick to counter attacking football, which is no bad thing in itself so long as they don't have elongated possession before pressing go, but even the most rigid defensive structure would need at least one totem full forward as the plan b / blind alley option. For if they don't have that, they're just going to keep giving the pressing team the ball back.

Mine, from a referee's perspective is easier to manage

How would it be?
How are you to know who is playing backs, midfield or forwards? Teams are making positional switches all the time, subs come in with 27 on the back and you have to keep track of who is making his way forward etc? That sounds very difficult.

His idea that once the ball goes over a certain line it is not allowed to go back over it is surely much easier managed?

[Derryman forever]

Any suggestion that Defenders or forwards  cant cross the half way line is simply laughable.
Half backs have been scoring  since adam wad a boy.

The biggest problem with football is negative commentary and too much  available to see and comment on.
Go back and watch games from the 70s , 80, and 90s. There were many Turgid affairs with very poor skills and no plan. Just hoof it as far as possible and hope.

[thewobbler]

Any suggestion that Defenders or forwards  cant cross the half way line is simply laughable.
Half backs have been scoring  since adam wad a boy.

The biggest problem with football is negative commentary and too much  available to see and comment on.
Go back and watch games from the 70s , 80, and 90s. There were many Turgid affairs with very poor skills and no plan. Just hoof it as far as possible and hope.

The second biggest problem with football is that people from counties that are doing well, would quite happily sleep through a season of matches as long as their county wins Sam.

f**k whether the sport is in any way fun or entertaining, so long as we are winning.

[Dreadnought]

Jarlth has plans to look at the game of football and change its negativity

Going to be difficult

I vowed never to type this up again. But I can't help it.

The fundamental problem with football is that the value of possession greatly outweighs the value of territory.

So instead of the rule makers looking at gimmicks - like the advanced mark - they need to look at the fundamental structures of the game.

Bring in the half court rule (no returning over either 45) and bring in a substantial penalty for breaking the rule (45m free from hand or the ground).

There will be a period of adjustment when (particular club) teams who've spent the past 10 years protecting the D, are afraid to leave the D at all. But it'll slowly dawn on everyone that when the opposition press you, the best thing you can do is move the ball quickly into the spaces left in their half. And I before long they'll understand that if they don't score every time it doesn't matter - as the ball will be returned to them much more often under these principles.

How can you actually police this? Would this not be the very essence of law of unintended consequence? I already see many issues with this by barely thinking if it for a few seconds. Coaches will try coach around it. So will it in fact slow up play, and players won't pass the 45 until they are ready to. What then if defenders can block a player off in a U formation to force the ball carrier back one direction and give up a free? That'd look horrible. This isn't basketball with a small court, 10 players, non-contact, and a shot clock. Making arbitrary lines is just silly and cannot see how it makes the game any better otehr than ruining teh spectacle even more