The Advanced Mark

[lenny]

They obviously want to encourage more kicking into the forwards.

Personally, I don't see much wrong with it. Accurate kicking and catching are skills we want to reward.

Totally agree, the advance mark has been a big success this year. Teams like Cavan and tipp have been successful playing a much more direct game than we've seen in previous seasons. This was surely as a result of the advanced mark. Mayo have been more direct than normal also and have used Aidan o Shea at full forward for good parts of games. It's been exciting to watch.

It has in its f**k. Mayo have used Aidan O'Shea at full forward in the past as he's a good target man, counties had been doing this before the mark. Team had already started to go much more direct again in the last few years before the mark.

It encourages teams to flood back now, majority of marks seem to be called somewhere between the 21 yard line and 45 yard line as teams have dropped back.

The only thing the advanced mark serves to do is dilute the quality of forward player. A forward no longer looks to sell a dummy or take his man on after winning a ball because he gets a free shot a goal.

It also is really unfair on a defender, part of the quality of a good defender is someone who is an excellent shadower, he might allow you get the ball but he's going to make sure you're going nowhere with it after.

You do know that not all kicks forward result in marks and that forwards still have to do these things??

Also your last part is nonsense. That "shadower" thing is part of the modern game when your defence is flooded let the forward win it and pass him off to a forward coming back to defend. It used to be you had to stop your man from getting the ball by getting out in front or reading the play and this is partly getting back to that.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of it but I'd like to see it play out for a year or 2 before I'd pass final judgment. I've yet to see a team really use it as a prolonged defined tactic so it would be interesting if that were to happen.

I agree with your idea to give it another season or 2. As I said before it was very interesting to see 2 unheralded teams coming through this year who utilised a very direct style. I've never seen Cavan or tipp being as direct before using the big man at full forward and it got them a lot of scores. As a consequence there was a lot less of the sideways, over and back boring possession game which is very boring to watch and in my eyes is sucking the life out of the game. After another couple of seasons we should be able to give a definitive view on the success of the advanced mark. At the moment it looks promising.

[TabClear]

A good forward should beat his man to the ball the vast majority of the time assuming the ball in is decent and there is not a notable pace differential. Yes a good defender can try  to mark in front and read the play but the bottomline is that the forward knows where he is going to go next, the defender has to react to the forwards movements, the converse is not as important.

[Angelo]

A good forward should beat his man to the ball the vast majority of the time assuming the ball in is decent and there is not a notable pace differential. Yes a good defender can try  to mark in front and read the play but the bottomline is that the forward knows where he is going to go next, the defender has to react to the forwards movements, the converse is not as important.

+1

A good defender is never trained to gamble, they are trained to follow their man and stick tight.

[Milltown Row2]

They obviously want to encourage more kicking into the forwards.

Personally, I don't see much wrong with it. Accurate kicking and catching are skills we want to reward.

Totally agree, the advance mark has been a big success this year. Teams like Cavan and tipp have been successful playing a much more direct game than we've seen in previous seasons. This was surely as a result of the advanced mark. Mayo have been more direct than normal also and have used Aidan o Shea at full forward for good parts of games. It's been exciting to watch.

It has in its f**k. Mayo have used Aidan O'Shea at full forward in the past as he's a good target man, counties had been doing this before the mark. Team had already started to go much more direct again in the last few years before the mark.

It encourages teams to flood back now, majority of marks seem to be called somewhere between the 21 yard line and 45 yard line as teams have dropped back.

The only thing the advanced mark serves to do is dilute the quality of forward player. A forward no longer looks to sell a dummy or take his man on after winning a ball because he gets a free shot a goal.

It also is really unfair on a defender, part of the quality of a good defender is someone who is an excellent shadower, he might allow you get the ball but he's going to make sure you're going nowhere with it after.

You do know that not all kicks forward result in marks and that forwards still have to do these things??

Also your last part is nonsense. That "shadower" thing is part of the modern game when your defence is flooded let the forward win it and pass him off to a forward coming back to defend. It used to be you had to stop your man from getting the ball by getting out in front or reading the play and this is partly getting back to that.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of it but I'd like to see it play out for a year or 2 before I'd pass final judgment. I've yet to see a team really use it as a prolonged defined tactic so it would be interesting if that were to happen.

They have to all those things a lot less now.

It was never about stop your defender getting the ball. I have heard some amount of nonsense on here but this takes the biscuit. Serious question, have you ever played the game? The first that would be roared at a corner back from the sideline when a ball went to his man was don't foul. If you are marking a good player sometimes you have no option but to let him win that ball and just try to stop him from doing anything with it. The hallmarks of a top class defender is someone who knows when to go for the ball and when to let his man get the ball and hold him up.

It's clear to me that you never played the game. Shadowing has always been a key part in what makes a good defender.

Jesus!!

If your defender isn't winning primary possession and allowing the attacker to 'have' the ball and hope he takes it off him then I can see you must be looking after a Tyrone club team in Ulster 

The first thing roared at a defender is get out in front and win your f**king ball, the next thing roared from the sideline if he continues to do this is "sub ref"

Allowing an attacker the ball it nuts, if he sprints out and gets the ball out the wing then yes manage the situation, but the forward mark is generally a high ball pumped in and a defender should have time to challenge himself for the ball, and I'd ask the question as to why he isn't touch tight!

As a defender a pumped high ball is a 50/50 in fact it favours a defender.

I'm not for the forward mark btw

The first thing roared at a defender is not to foul. Get out in fron leaves you open to getting caught in behind. It doesn't sound like you've played the game but the same as in any sport, you do not get caught in behind, it's unforgivable. Good defenders are trained to be able to shadow their man and be on their tail at all time, if they can get the ball they go for it, if they can't they get tight.

You seem to be saying that defenders are trained to be kamikaze, gung ho nuts who commit for every ball blindly - which is idiotic and the sign of someone who has never played the game or only played junior football maybe.

If can quote me where I said that then I'll agree with you, but you obviously read this with your eyes wide shut

[GetOverTheBar]

As a player I don't mind the inside mark, I think it should be let run its term and see what tactical innovations can come from it - I think we are only at the start of that particular cycle and would open the game up for different builds of players, particularly at club level.  There is no doubt we'll soon see a team completely built upon getting those free shots and it will cause an outrage, but for now, it looks relatively like an untapped resource.

I've played both attack and defence, I can see the logic in both arguments - but we want an attacking game, so the reward I suppose should be with the attacker? I'm not overly keen on these wee pop passes to just inside the 45 (half of them don't even go the required distance) but I suppose it creates space and discourages the zonal defence as a result. As a defender, don't you have enough to be at? It's rough on defenders, at least in the AFL if you catch the man you can rip him to the ground as a bit of payback. Although majority of defenders play in front now so it's not really such as issue.

Critically, I suppose we are playing Aussie Rules now with the ball. I enjoy the AFL so I'm not too bothered but I know some people can't stand the stop / start of the mark. It can wear on the patience, maybe more so the older generation. I'd have preferred we adopt the ladies pick up or hooter system but this is what they have brought in.

[general_lee]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

[Angelo]

They obviously want to encourage more kicking into the forwards.

Personally, I don't see much wrong with it. Accurate kicking and catching are skills we want to reward.

Totally agree, the advance mark has been a big success this year. Teams like Cavan and tipp have been successful playing a much more direct game than we've seen in previous seasons. This was surely as a result of the advanced mark. Mayo have been more direct than normal also and have used Aidan o Shea at full forward for good parts of games. It's been exciting to watch.

It has in its f**k. Mayo have used Aidan O'Shea at full forward in the past as he's a good target man, counties had been doing this before the mark. Team had already started to go much more direct again in the last few years before the mark.

It encourages teams to flood back now, majority of marks seem to be called somewhere between the 21 yard line and 45 yard line as teams have dropped back.

The only thing the advanced mark serves to do is dilute the quality of forward player. A forward no longer looks to sell a dummy or take his man on after winning a ball because he gets a free shot a goal.

It also is really unfair on a defender, part of the quality of a good defender is someone who is an excellent shadower, he might allow you get the ball but he's going to make sure you're going nowhere with it after.

You do know that not all kicks forward result in marks and that forwards still have to do these things??

Also your last part is nonsense. That "shadower" thing is part of the modern game when your defence is flooded let the forward win it and pass him off to a forward coming back to defend. It used to be you had to stop your man from getting the ball by getting out in front or reading the play and this is partly getting back to that.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of it but I'd like to see it play out for a year or 2 before I'd pass final judgment. I've yet to see a team really use it as a prolonged defined tactic so it would be interesting if that were to happen.

They have to all those things a lot less now.

It was never about stop your defender getting the ball. I have heard some amount of nonsense on here but this takes the biscuit. Serious question, have you ever played the game? The first that would be roared at a corner back from the sideline when a ball went to his man was don't foul. If you are marking a good player sometimes you have no option but to let him win that ball and just try to stop him from doing anything with it. The hallmarks of a top class defender is someone who knows when to go for the ball and when to let his man get the ball and hold him up.

It's clear to me that you never played the game. Shadowing has always been a key part in what makes a good defender.

Jesus!!

If your defender isn't winning primary possession and allowing the attacker to 'have' the ball and hope he takes it off him then I can see you must be looking after a Tyrone club team in Ulster 

The first thing roared at a defender is get out in front and win your f**king ball, the next thing roared from the sideline if he continues to do this is "sub ref"

Allowing an attacker the ball it nuts, if he sprints out and gets the ball out the wing then yes manage the situation, but the forward mark is generally a high ball pumped in and a defender should have time to challenge himself for the ball, and I'd ask the question as to why he isn't touch tight!

As a defender a pumped high ball is a 50/50 in fact it favours a defender.

I'm not for the forward mark btw

The first thing roared at a defender is not to foul. Get out in fron leaves you open to getting caught in behind. It doesn't sound like you've played the game but the same as in any sport, you do not get caught in behind, it's unforgivable. Good defenders are trained to be able to shadow their man and be on their tail at all time, if they can get the ball they go for it, if they can't they get tight.

You seem to be saying that defenders are trained to be kamikaze, gung ho nuts who commit for every ball blindly - which is idiotic and the sign of someone who has never played the game or only played junior football maybe.

If can quote me where I said that then I'll agree with you, but you obviously read this with your eyes wide shut

The first thing roared at a defender is get out in front and win your f**king ball, the next thing roared from the sideline if he continues to do this is "sub ref"

[lenny]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

[Milltown Row2]

They obviously want to encourage more kicking into the forwards.

Personally, I don't see much wrong with it. Accurate kicking and catching are skills we want to reward.

Totally agree, the advance mark has been a big success this year. Teams like Cavan and tipp have been successful playing a much more direct game than we've seen in previous seasons. This was surely as a result of the advanced mark. Mayo have been more direct than normal also and have used Aidan o Shea at full forward for good parts of games. It's been exciting to watch.

It has in its f**k. Mayo have used Aidan O'Shea at full forward in the past as he's a good target man, counties had been doing this before the mark. Team had already started to go much more direct again in the last few years before the mark.

It encourages teams to flood back now, majority of marks seem to be called somewhere between the 21 yard line and 45 yard line as teams have dropped back.

The only thing the advanced mark serves to do is dilute the quality of forward player. A forward no longer looks to sell a dummy or take his man on after winning a ball because he gets a free shot a goal.

It also is really unfair on a defender, part of the quality of a good defender is someone who is an excellent shadower, he might allow you get the ball but he's going to make sure you're going nowhere with it after.

You do know that not all kicks forward result in marks and that forwards still have to do these things??

Also your last part is nonsense. That "shadower" thing is part of the modern game when your defence is flooded let the forward win it and pass him off to a forward coming back to defend. It used to be you had to stop your man from getting the ball by getting out in front or reading the play and this is partly getting back to that.

Personally I'm not a massive fan of it but I'd like to see it play out for a year or 2 before I'd pass final judgment. I've yet to see a team really use it as a prolonged defined tactic so it would be interesting if that were to happen.

They have to all those things a lot less now.

It was never about stop your defender getting the ball. I have heard some amount of nonsense on here but this takes the biscuit. Serious question, have you ever played the game? The first that would be roared at a corner back from the sideline when a ball went to his man was don't foul. If you are marking a good player sometimes you have no option but to let him win that ball and just try to stop him from doing anything with it. The hallmarks of a top class defender is someone who knows when to go for the ball and when to let his man get the ball and hold him up.

It's clear to me that you never played the game. Shadowing has always been a key part in what makes a good defender.

Jesus!!

If your defender isn't winning primary possession and allowing the attacker to 'have' the ball and hope he takes it off him then I can see you must be looking after a Tyrone club team in Ulster 

The first thing roared at a defender is get out in front and win your f**king ball, the next thing roared from the sideline if he continues to do this is "sub ref"

Allowing an attacker the ball it nuts, if he sprints out and gets the ball out the wing then yes manage the situation, but the forward mark is generally a high ball pumped in and a defender should have time to challenge himself for the ball, and I'd ask the question as to why he isn't touch tight!

As a defender a pumped high ball is a 50/50 in fact it favours a defender.

I'm not for the forward mark btw

The first thing roared at a defender is not to foul. Get out in fron leaves you open to getting caught in behind. It doesn't sound like you've played the game but the same as in any sport, you do not get caught in behind, it's unforgivable. Good defenders are trained to be able to shadow their man and be on their tail at all time, if they can get the ball they go for it, if they can't they get tight.

You seem to be saying that defenders are trained to be kamikaze, gung ho nuts who commit for every ball blindly - which is idiotic and the sign of someone who has never played the game or only played junior football maybe.

If can quote me where I said that then I'll agree with you, but you obviously read this with your eyes wide shut

The first thing roared at a defender is get out in front and win your f**king ball, the next thing roared from the sideline if he continues to do this is "sub ref"

So I didn't say kamikaze defending. Thanks

[Main Street]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

Yes but this is the advance mark thread.

I'd agree with the general, it's shite and doesn't add anything to the game but I haven't seen it used very much this year in the championship games or have I missed something?

[lenny]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

Yes but this is the advance mark thread.

I'd agree with the general, it's shite and doesn't add anything to the game but I haven't seen it used very much this year in the championship games or have I missed something?

Tipp kicked loads of long, high balls into their full forwards v Cork and kept 3 men inside most of the time. They didn't win too many marks but the prospect of a mark meant this was a worthwhile tactic. It was also very effective. Cavan used the same tactic in a number of their games. They generally kept at least one big man like galligan or madden inside. Again it didn't always lead to a mark but the prospect of a mark encouraged them to use that tactic.

[manfromdelmonte]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

Yes but this is the advance mark thread.

I'd agree with the general, it's shite and doesn't add anything to the game but I haven't seen it used very much this year in the championship games or have I missed something?

Tipp kicked loads of long, high balls into their full forwards v Cork and kept 3 men inside most of the time. They didn't win too many marks but the prospect of a mark meant this was a worthwhile tactic. It was also very effective. Cavan used the same tactic in a number of their games. They generally kept at least one big man like galligan or madden inside. Again it didn't always lead to a mark but the prospect of a mark encouraged them to use that tactic.

I fully expect Dublin to target the mayo full back line with early balls played in

[Main Street]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

Yes but this is the advance mark thread.

I'd agree with the general, it's shite and doesn't add anything to the game but I haven't seen it used very much this year in the championship games or have I missed something?

Tipp kicked loads of long, high balls into their full forwards v Cork and kept 3 men inside most of the time. They didn't win too many marks but the prospect of a mark meant this was a worthwhile tactic. It was also very effective. Cavan used the same tactic in a number of their games. They generally kept at least one big man like galligan or madden inside. Again it didn't always lead to a mark but the prospect of a mark encouraged them to use that tactic.

I more meant to say that I didn't seee many advanced marks being taken and converted.
Though there were a few where the player just played on.

[Hound]

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

Lads it's f**king shite and clearly none of yous have kicked a ball in the last ten years. Refs are bad enough at applying the rules as it is without burdening them with this garbage. Maybe at county level it isn't as noticeable (or else you're all just blind) but at club level it adds absolutely nothing and gives forwards a massive advantage without any incentive that encourages forward play. Rewarding 25m chest high passes is bullshit

What's destroying the game at the moment is how good teams are at keeping possession and how reluctant they are to give a pass with any degree of risk. The result is endless side to side passing around the middle of the field. I've seen teams keep the ball for 4 or 5 minutes without getting the ball inside the 45 metre line and the other team just sit back waiting for them to come in. That has made numerous games unwatchable over the last couple of seasons. This season has been different because teams have an alternative offensive tactic. Teams like Cavan and Tipperary have come from nowhere to win their province playing a direct game with much less boring possession rubbish. I don't think they'd have been anywhere near as direct but for the inside mark.

Yes but this is the advance mark thread.

I'd agree with the general, it's shite and doesn't add anything to the game but I haven't seen it used very much this year in the championship games or have I missed something?

Tipp kicked loads of long, high balls into their full forwards v Cork and kept 3 men inside most of the time. They didn't win too many marks but the prospect of a mark meant this was a worthwhile tactic. It was also very effective. Cavan used the same tactic in a number of their games. They generally kept at least one big man like galligan or madden inside. Again it didn't always lead to a mark but the prospect of a mark encouraged them to use that tactic.

I fully expect Dublin to target the mayo full back line with early balls played in

I don't have the stats, but I would guess Paddy Small has taken near the same number of advanced  marks as the rest of the Dubs forwards put together. It may be why he's (so far) stayed ahead of Mannion in the pecking order.

[Armagh18]

It is a ridiculous rule and anyone who has ever played the game will know this. Any defender will do their best to stop the forward winning clean possession, but a lot of the time it doesnt work, that shouldnt result in a free shot for the forward. They should still have to take the defender on/ lay the ball off.