Just had to start this ball rolling!
Gotta predict an easy victory for crozier. Paddy bradley or not the antrim rearguard is woeful, muldoon and lynch definitely look a good bet to stick a few in the net
Surely derry will hav too much for this antrim team. but remember longford! derry have a habit of underachieving
Quote from: Stalin on May 07, 2007, 04:43:01 PM
Surely derry will hav too much for this antrim team. but remember longford! derry have a habit of underachieving
no better team to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory than Derry alright.
Still Longford have some decent talent and are playing well this past couple of seasons and troubling a lot of the top counties. Had a great u21 side too recently.
While a shock (not if you think about the lack of preparation and tactics from the Derry mgt) it would be a huge shock if Antrim were to win.
This is not impossible as we all know that anyone can win on championship day.
Antrim very quiet right now which is never good for the favourites in the game !
still expect Derry to win by 5 points
Aparently paul murphy has joined the panel and collie devlin is motoring well which is good news.
id like to see devlin get some good quality ball in and show how good he is on this stage.a few antrim boys mite be thinkin of the States already.
Derry to do enough to progress.
Whiskey, is Sean Leo still on the panel?
I know Derry should be comfortable winners in this game but nothing surprises me any more when it comes to being a Derry supporter.
The number of times we have been beaten in games we should have easily won makes it difficult to be confident going into any game. Derry never seem to perform when up against a poor side but usually have PB to keep them in front. If he's not playing, anything could happen.
Is it true Joe Brolly is helping out in Antrim?
:-X
yeah apparently he is. he has the inside info on the weaknesses antrim need to expose!!
sean leo not on the panel though he's impressed as one for the next year or 2. he's another coupla years at u-21 and the senior hurling in the meanwhile. don't know how you identified me as a coleraine man so quick superhans! ;D
joe brolly apparently took a few training sessions with the antrim footballers but don't think it would matter if mick o'dwyer was involved. they just don't have good enough players in certain positions at this time. derry may perform better without pbradley than people think as well, muldoon and gilligan on good form will do enough to beat antrim
is that Sean Leo McGoldrick, brother of Barry whos father is an Antrim man?
he's barry's brother alrite, dunno if his father is an antrim man or not?
His father is from ballycastle, big into his hurling
Sean Leo scored 23 points in the derry intermediate final last year I think it was so he must be some hurler himself!!
his father is from belfast, played for antrim footballers then married a derry woman. def not from b'castle!
speaking as` a neutral if bradley doesnt play could be a blessing for derry as they will not be so 1 dimensional.granted he is possibly the best forward but there is a resemlence in the way derry and down play (coulter) where they just seem to target the one player and teams can snuff it out.maybe good against antrim but duno if donegal, tyrone or armagh
is big daryl martin starting for the safrons?????
Sean Leo has one, if not two, Ukster College Hurling All-Stars.
some hype over this game!
loads. There was more response to the 'stephen nolan plays gaelic football' post.
Though i suppose that fat bastard would overshadow anything.
both teams trained today at casement.
any word on the starting 15 for derry?
Did you hear about the Antrim player who got a straight red last week in a club game but somehow it is now 2 yellows so is available to start against Derry
:o who?
might watch a bit of the championship tonight to hear PB interview abaout his suspension!
not much craic about this game, but i suppose it'll only be a matter of showing up for the Oakleafers ;)
anyways, enough of the silly rumours about red cards being taken down to two yellows- heres what i think will line out on Sunday for us:
McGreevy
Tony Scullion
AN Other
Loughrey
Crozier
Quinn
Mick McCann
Gallagher
Brady
Doherty (if fit)
Close
Cunningham
McGourty
a couple of free spots that i aint sure of, wouldnt be surprised to see Tomas McCann at wing half forward also.
a full forward line of left footers.
and what?!
i'll tell you what, since you're the one in the know- I'll take a bet with you that FF line starts... ;)
m mccann was the player who was put as receiving 2yellows instead of the red he was shown during game. apparently there was a quick phonecall made to jody gormly threatening the withdrawal of all cargin players unless it was changed!
Quote from: ThatsTheFootball on May 29, 2007, 10:53:28 AM
m mccann was the player who was put as receiving 2yellows instead of the red he was shown during game. apparently there was a quick phonecall made to jody gormly threatening the withdrawal of all cargin players unless it was changed!
:D
yeah....right!! :D :D you're some craic!
thats what i heard from a VERY reliable source
slim r u saying michael mccann wasn't shown a straight red against dunloy
yes, sure am. his second yellow wasnt even a foul!
we did get another man straight red-ded that evening.
stop trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes slim. everyone knows it was mccann that was shown the straight red card for an apparent dangerous tackle that resulted in a dunloy player colliding with the fence
Quote from: PlayWithTheWind on May 29, 2007, 10:13:55 AM
a full forward line of left footers.
Three protestants starting for antrim? is that a first?
wise up man and stop talking through yer hole. i was there and witnessed it- our full back was sent off for 'dangerous play' when he slipped and ended up tripping his man on the way down with the ball in his hands! your source is way off!
Is it true that Philly Maguire of St Teresa's has been drafted into the Saffron panel?
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on May 29, 2007, 10:35:46 AM
and what?!
i'll tell you what, since you're the one in the know- I'll take a bet with you that FF line starts... ;)
slim, bring a thick wallet on sunday, u'll need it £17 through the door then you will have to give me money!!
my 17 quid will be staying put ;) though i may hand it over the bar in Casement.
that will be the FF line starting, i'm almost certain of that but we'll find out soon enough.
i wouldn't be complaining if it was, but i just dont see it.
Quote from: ONeill on May 29, 2007, 11:55:28 AM
Is it true that Philly Maguire of St Teresa's has been drafted into the Saffron panel?
3 u21's were drafted in last week and they have been training along with the rest of the lads. its a small panel of 27 so them boys were drafted in so training matches 15 a-side could be played. yes wee philly from st teresas is one of those boys included.
Wud ye expect any different of cargin
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Can I also ask our dear neighbours to please leave the Maghera Streakers at home, nobody wants to see 2 or 3 drunken idiots running around the pitch in their boxer shorts while thinking its hilarious while the rest of the Derry support cheer and shout as if its a great laugh.
many thanks.
lads which McGourty is likely to be starting. to be honest don't even know which of them are playing this year. is Andy McLean not involved this year?
they are all playing, only cj is in the antrim squad. in todays irish news he said he knows he will play with both brothers in the antrim team in the fututre and cant wait for it.
I think Slims's team will be very close to the starting line-up, with Brady and Gallagher either side of Niblock and Bell at wing back.
Wouldn't be too sure of McGourty starting.
Correct ONeill, stick Niblock at 11 in my team and move Brady to the wing. I'd rather see Scullion at 5 but cant see him not starting in the corner.
I assume McVeigh will get a run-out?
think so, may even start. i heard the jist of the team at the weekend, had a slap of drink in me at the time so not 100% but thats the jist of it anyhow.
Quote from: CiKe on May 29, 2007, 02:02:32 PM
is Andy McLean not involved this year?
no, he opted out as he is in his final year at university plus not long after a serious operation.
Quote from: ONeill on May 29, 2007, 02:47:15 PM
I assume McVeigh will get a run-out?
will play full back
well slim you were wrong for a change :P
2 out of 3 wasnt bad though!
Paddy won his appeal last night so will be available for selection on sunday, although I wouldn't be surprised if he tells the county where to go!!!!!!!!!!
Agree with you there Daisy.
Baker leaves the set up, obviously a bit pissed off with something going on, Peter Doherty brought in over his head or something. Skinner asked to leave the panel shortly after, and Paddy gets the book thrown at him (rightly or wrongly) by a county board representing a county he has served so well for years.
I`d say dont even mention the county set up round Bradley way right now. No doubt their focus this year is JML, and I`d say they (glenullin) are as good as whats about Derry at the minute. Talk about a one fingered salute that would be.
Class acts, both, no doubt about it. Big winnersto be the Mitchells. If I was Madden I`d be delighted the way these side shows are going, from a club perspective. Talk about motivation!
With those two available, Derry would have one of the most potent forward lines in the country. Without them, well whats another year. Imagine a forward line without two guys who would always get you 8-10 points from play on most given days.
Quote from: johnjoe on May 30, 2007, 09:41:41 AM
Derry would have one of the most potent forward lines in the country. Without them, well whats another year. Imagine a forward line without two guys who would always get you 8-10 points from play on most given days.
only if the ball gets delivered into the FF lin John Joe.
Derry's biggest problem over the past 12 - 15 years (that I have picked out) has been a severe lack of ball or quick ball into the FF line.
It wouldnt matter who you have in it Jesus flanked by Osama bin Laden and Matt Connor - if the ball doesnt come in quickly enough or not at all, then your team are not going to be getting too many scores.
The FF is THE score getting line. If you dont score, you tend to lose.
If Derry get that right out the field, then i'd agree with you even more.
Otherwise its just potential.
Lynchbhoy, seen Skinner two or three times recently, and he is on FIRE. Twice the player, leaner, meaner, sharper than his NFL performances. Sorry, but a full grade, or two, better than Barry Mc Goldrick or Gavan Donaghy, or a Diver at 12.
Would offer much more as a scoring threat too. Hypothetical though for Sunday, but going forward, a defining choice in store for PC in terms of his managerial tenure!
A manager always wants access to his best players!
Quote from: johnjoe on May 30, 2007, 10:25:13 AM
Lynchbhoy, seen Skinner two or three times recently, and he is on FIRE. Twice the player, leaner, meaner, sharper than his NFL performances. Sorry, but a full grade, or two, better than Barry Mc Goldrick or Gavan Donaghy, or a Diver at 12.
Would offer much more as a scoring threat too. Hypothetical though for Sunday, but going forward, a defining choice in store for PC in terms of his managerial tenure!
A manager always wants access to his best players!
Dont get me wrong JJ.
I think the two Bradleys are top drawer.
BUT the problem is out the field. Derry have great ability to win posession - have very good midfielders and are rarely beaten there. the problem is in the distribution and SLOW distribution into the FF line.
If the ball isnt delivered quickly, then the defender is up with the run the likes of the Bradleys make - so makes scoring even more difficult.
But any ball is better than no ball in. Derry seem to @rse about with it round the middle third of the pitch and eventually get dispossessed.
The Bradleys are superb. The passing into them (and all FF lines over the past 15 years) has been rubbish/non-existant.
Only an opinion, but with/if the two Bradleys back in and settled into the set up, I really believe youse are serious dark horses for Ulster and beyond. Without them Derry still look like quality all over the pitch, and just look at the quality of your possible subs bench.
Joe O Kane, Ciaran Mc Keever, Liam Hinphy, Paul Murphy, Keenan/Mcgoldrick/Mc Eldowney. add in the two Bradleys, and just think of the unbelievable competition for places there.
Cant think there would be too much slacking at training, or any room whatsover for complacency. A managers dream.
First time since 93 Derry has had such a strong panel, with the subs bench the best for years. A reflection on the quality at the minute in the Oak Leaf county. Having said that, I`ll be with Antrim all the way on Sunday, win lose or draw.
Quote from: johnjoe on May 30, 2007, 11:03:43 AM
First time since 93 Derry has had such a strong panel, with the subs bench the best for years. A reflection on the quality at the minute in the Oak Leaf county. Having said that, I`ll be with Antrim all the way on Sunday, win lose or draw.
A ferrari without a steering wheel aint much use JJ !
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 30, 2007, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: johnjoe on May 30, 2007, 11:03:43 AM
First time since 93 Derry has had such a strong panel, with the subs bench the best for years. A reflection on the quality at the minute in the Oak Leaf county. Having said that, I`ll be with Antrim all the way on Sunday, win lose or draw.
A ferrari without a steering wheel aint much use JJ !
Lynchboy I enjoy all your quick comments about Crozier and his inability as a manager. Derry quite simply have not got the players to break into the top tier and win the All Ireland. They have a few very talented players but on the whole they dont have the mentality or the footballing quality required. All this talk about clubs taking precedence over the county is just an excuse. County players in Tyrone are every bit as (and in some cases probably more) committed to their blubs than their counterparts in Derry.
You talk about Tyrone having average players but an excellent manager and that it is the manager who sets them apart. I dont agree, yes Harte is an excellent manager and master tactician but it was the quality of the players that made the thing work in 2003 and 2005. Harte has been the manager since 2003 and the seasons where he didnt suceed where those when he was missing the real quality players. Take this year for example, Brian McGuigan wont play and I will be amazed if Tyrone win the All Ireland without him.
So Loughshore Lad, Tyrone have great quality players (and this is why they won 2 all-irelands), but take one of these players away and they have no chance?
Derry are missing a top-quality manager, Tyrone have one, and this is why they will always be amongst the favourites to win Sam.
Quote from: Will Hunting on May 30, 2007, 11:32:28 AM
So Loughshore Lad, Tyrone have great quality players (and this is why they won 2 all-irelands), but take one of these players away and they have no chance?
Derry are missing a top-quality manager, Tyrone have one, and this is why they will always be amongst the favourites to win Sam.
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
In order to win the really tight games Tyrone need all these guys in peak shape and for this reason I think McGuigan will be too much of a miss.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley however neither of these two guys have consistently did it at county level against the likes of Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: Will Hunting on May 30, 2007, 11:32:28 AM
So Loughshore Lad, Tyrone have great quality players (and this is why they won 2 all-irelands), but take one of these players away and they have no chance?
Derry are missing a top-quality manager, Tyrone have one, and this is why they will always be amongst the favourites to win Sam.
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
In order to win the really tight games Tyrone need all these guys in peak shape and for this reason I think McGuigan will be too much of a miss.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley however neither of these two guys have consistently did it at county level against the likes of Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry
A bit harsh to say Derry only have 2 exceptional players....what about Lockhart, Diver, Gilligan, McCloy (best full back in the country for 2/3 years in my opinion)? We have as many exceptional players as Tyrone. The difference is defo the management and the non-existant tactics deployed in derry teams of recent years. If we got our tactics and management right I think we could seriously push for Ulster and All-Ireland honours. As it stands, Ulster is a possibilty but nothing more.
i think it was spillane who said that every county has 15 players that are as good as any other in any other county, its how you use them that makes the difference. i agree with lynchboy that the distribution just isnt quick enough. if we had the ball pumped in first day the 2 bradleys wud destroy any defence! u can take one man out of a match but u cant handle 2 like that! derry also must use ALL of their players. colin devlin is a class act and because of derrys fascination with kickin the ball to the bradleys (which any team will now see as predictable) colin devlin was made to look like a joke against armagh a couple of years back! i felt sorry for him...and thats hard for me to say bein from the loup :D :D
Delvin has not the strenght to be consistant county forward, he has potential, but alot of weights work to do.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 30, 2007, 12:58:31 PM
Delvin has not the strenght to be consistant county forward, he has potential, but alot of weights work to do.
Totally agree here. The lad has had a lot of injuries but he was not even a regular on the Ballinderry team 2 seasons ago and now Derry folks are talking about him being a potential county star?? He has potential but an awful lot of improvement to make in order to reach county standard/
Quote from: tbrick18 on May 30, 2007, 12:33:54 PM
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: Will Hunting on May 30, 2007, 11:32:28 AM
So Loughshore Lad, Tyrone have great quality players (and this is why they won 2 all-irelands), but take one of these players away and they have no chance?
Derry are missing a top-quality manager, Tyrone have one, and this is why they will always be amongst the favourites to win Sam.
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
In order to win the really tight games Tyrone need all these guys in peak shape and for this reason I think McGuigan will be too much of a miss.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley however neither of these two guys have consistently did it at county level against the likes of Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry
A bit harsh to say Derry only have 2 exceptional players....what about Lockhart, Diver, Gilligan, McCloy (best full back in the country for 2/3 years in my opinion)? We have as many exceptional players as Tyrone. The difference is defo the management and the non-existant tactics deployed in derry teams of recent years. If we got our tactics and management right I think we could seriously push for Ulster and All-Ireland honours. As it stands, Ulster is a possibilty but nothing more.
None of the players you mention are as good as their counterparts on the Tyrone team with the exception of McCloy and that is purely because Tyrone dont have a decent full back at the moment. McCloy is suspect as was highlighted by Donegal in the championship last year.
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 30, 2007, 12:58:31 PM
Delvin has not the strenght to be consistant county forward, he has potential, but alot of weights work to do.
fair point max! one for the future no doubt!
management is a massive part of any team. derry dont seem to have everyone playin the same way - direct towards goal. i wtached fergal doherty fist a ball about 30 yards back to the keeper against laois at celtic park and it almost embarrassed me. turning into soccer! fergal is one of the most naturally gifted footballers in the county and if men that are on a county team cant take another player on then they shouldnt be there. im not singling out fergal it seemed to be the whole team. a kcik across the field, a fist back to someone, a fist back again, another ball across the field. nothin direct and i cant understand it because derry have the players that can do that. alot of derrys players seem to be afraid to run it past the opposition, they make a strong run then turn when they get to a man to ship it off to someone else!
derry need to know whats goin on all over the field almost bein able to kick a pass without lookin, knowing someone will be in that space. look at the reading of the game betweem stephen mcdonnell and ronan clarke for armagh, possibly one of the best in the country!
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:17:53 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 30, 2007, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: johnjoe on May 30, 2007, 11:03:43 AM
First time since 93 Derry has had such a strong panel, with the subs bench the best for years. A reflection on the quality at the minute in the Oak Leaf county. Having said that, I`ll be with Antrim all the way on Sunday, win lose or draw.
A ferrari without a steering wheel aint much use JJ !
Lynchboy I enjoy all your quick comments about Crozier and his inability as a manager. Derry quite simply have not got the players to break into the top tier and win the All Ireland. They have a few very talented players but on the whole they dont have the mentality or the footballing quality required. All this talk about clubs taking precedence over the county is just an excuse. County players in Tyrone are every bit as (and in some cases probably more) committed to their blubs than their counterparts in Derry.
You talk about Tyrone having average players but an excellent manager and that it is the manager who sets them apart. I dont agree, yes Harte is an excellent manager and master tactician but it was the quality of the players that made the thing work in 2003 and 2005. Harte has been the manager since 2003 and the seasons where he didnt suceed where those when he was missing the real quality players. Take this year for example, Brian McGuigan wont play and I will be amazed if Tyrone win the All Ireland without him.
We shall disagree over it then.But That doesnt mean you are wrong or that I might even be right.
Paddy C is a nice man, but I have had first hand exp as him being a manager.But he is equiv to 50% of the bosses out there in Gaelic football.
Its not just Gaelic football. There are instances of teams being far better than they look on paper. Soccer , rugby, hurling, basketball....
Its no fluke when a team punches above its weight. It can be, but not for sustained periods.
I'll use Celtic as an example. Decent players bought by ONeill - but it took a managerial tactical change going 352 and playing a certain style to make them virtually unbeatable in scotland (and england when they met english teams) and not many triumphed over them at home in europe.
When they stopped using a 352 and went 442 again, the same players playuing - the team went back to being poor again.
Tactics alone wont win you games. Same for talent alone wont win. A combo mix of both is what is needed. Some managers get this by luck and then see what they have and progress from there. Others (like Mick ODwyer) create it (not just down to great tactics either).
We have as much talent as we had in 1993. Maybe Gaelic football is more competitive these days. But we have a team of 15 men almost as good as the reat. That could be enough given the right man in charge.The odds are it wont happen though.An ulster title some time is achievable, other than that good runs in the qualifiers is all we can hope for. AI Semi finals perhaps. Unless things change.
From http://antrim.gaa.ie/ (http://antrim.gaa.ie/)
Antrim boss names team for USFC opener. 30 May 2007
Antrim Senior Football manager Jody Gormley has named his first side to compete in the Bank of Ireland Ulster Senior Football Championship against Derry on Sunday 3rd June in Casement Park.
1. Sean McGreevey - Naomh Pól
2. Tony Scullion - Clann na hÉireann
3. Paul Doherty - Naomh Mhuire
4. Kevin O'Boyle - Clann na hÉireann
5. Sean McVeigh - Naomh Uile
6. Gavin Bell - Ui Dhonnabhain Rosa
7. Justin Crozier - Clann na hÉireann
8. Michael McCann - Clann na hÉireann
9. Joe Quinn - Naomh Pól
10. Aodhan Gallagher - Naomh Gall
11. Kevin Niblock - Naomh Gall
12. James Loughery - Naomh Brid
13. Conor McGourty - Naomh Gall
14. Kevin Brady - Naomh Ergnat
15. Patrick Cunningham - Lámh Dhearg
16. Chris Kerr - Naomh Gall
17. Ciaran Close - Clann na hÉireann
18. Eoin O'Neill - Clann na hÉireann
19. Darrel Martin - Chiceann
20. Tomas Close - Ui Dhonnabhain Rosa
21. Paul Close - Ui Dhonnabhain Rosa
22. Michael Rea - Naomh Seosamh
23. Colin Brady - Naomh Gall
24. Conor McGoldrick - Naomh Treasa
25. Patrick Logan - Naomh Uile
26. Liam Gartland - Naomh Pól
27. John Finnucane - Lámh Dhearg
We have as much talent as we had in 1993. Maybe Gaelic football is more competitive these days. But we have a team of 15 men almost as good as the reat. That could be enough given the right man in charge.The odds are it wont happen though.An ulster title some time is achievable, other than that good runs in the qualifiers is all we can hope for. AI Semi finals perhaps. Unless things change.
[/quote]
I'd have to disagree Lynchboy, the 93 panel would be a fair bit better than the current one. Obviously, PB would be a better forward than those in 1993, but there aren't many players in the current panel fit to lace the boots of McKeever, Scullion, Downey, McGurk, Tohill, McGilligan, Barton and even the likes of Heaney who went through a heck of a lot of hard work.
the starting 15 will not play those positions so im told!
Not a bad Antrim team considering. Glad to see some physical presence added with Quinn and Doherty. Surprised to see Kieran Close on the bench - thought he was on fire for club but then we seem to have an abundance of small left footed corner forwards so I suppose someone had to go. Disappointed, for the game in general might I add, that Bradley got off but it's been one big mess from start to finish.
Lynchboy to say Derry have as much talent now as they had in 93 is IMHO ridiculous. Look at the defense - you could fit one player from today's defense in 93 - someone either Lockhart or McGuckin at no. 4. Not a midfielder would get near the team, probably not a half forward would get near the team and Paddy Bradley or Enda Muldoon might make the FF line. The current Derry team granted will more than likely beat Antrim but they are no more than a half decent side as opposed to 93 when they were obviously outstanding.
At present Derry are a half forward line,a corner forward, half a defense in fact probably three quarters of a defense, probably a goalie and one midfielder short of being AI challengers! Doherty, Lockhart, McGuckin, Bradley and maybe Muldoon on a good day are the only players who would get on AI challenger teams! Some would argue McCloy - not so sure though...
This Derry team is not even close to the quality of the 93' team. Players don't have the same commitment , desire or technical quality, P Bradley 'huffed' and wouldn't train .... 'mind you his club training is probably of a higher standard' .... E Coleman wouldn't have accepted that, he commanded and got total respect and therin lies the problem as also indicated by Max The Bradley bros atitude is indicative of the current 'unprofessional' set up. However, I hope they perform to best of their ability.
Tyrone are a very ordinary side since P Canavan retired and will struggle to make an impact at National level, also the standard of Derry club football is and has always been much higher than Tyrone clubs. Compare the number of Derry clubs that have had success at Ulster and All-Ireland level , however this success has not been replicated at county level. As a whole I think Tyrone players presently are much more committed to the County scene
Derry will won on Sunday with a few points to spare
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
In order to win the really tight games Tyrone need all these guys in peak shape and for this reason I think McGuigan will be too much of a miss.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley however neither of these two guys have consistently did it at county level against the likes of Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry
Loughshore lad,
You've got caught in a time trap & it's time to waken up and smell the coffee!
I went down to Clones to see Tyrone against Fermanagh & to be honest with the exception of Sean C & Gormley they were nothing to right home about.
Ricey has lost the plot & he thinks he's back playing Ice hockey. He was a good McKeever type terrier a couple of seasons ago, but he has lost the basics.
Granted O'Neill had a fantastic season in 05, but that was a single season, he was sub in 03 & has been plagued with injury ever since.
Mulligan scored the goal of the century against Dublin to kick start his season in 05 at the QF stage, but without Peter to draw the defence he is nothing special. I will give him credit for a bit of craft to "buy" the foul by Niall Bogues to get the second last score of the Fermanagh game & fair play to him!!
Hughes was a passenger at Clones as was Dooher for most of the game.
The full back spot for Tyrone is severely suspect. It was obvious Jack O'Connor had tutored Fermanagh to place a decent high fielder at the edge of the square ala Donaghy. One goal & one great save later from the 2 Femanagh midfielders they lost their confidence and potentially the scalp of the championship!! Do you think Brian McIver won't have thought of he same!!
For Tyrone to be relying on Cavlin at 31 to save them, they are not in good shape at the moment.
The young lad in corner forward looked very sharp in the second half as did Tommy McGuigan in the first, Com C is not of the same calibre as his brother & Mellon is an average journey man. McCullagh just blows hot and cold.
I think at this point of the season Derry are in as good a shape as Tyrone. A couple of lucky decisions from the ref (ala Peter C free against Armagh in the semi replay of 05) and Derry could get an Ulster - & I believe that is the only piece of silverware any Ulster team will be lifting this year!
Tyrone paid Brian McGuigan to come back from Oz, & they will need him plus O'Neill, plus Mulgrew firing on all cylinders by August, but with Donegal next & the restructured back door system the balance of players may not be good enough to last to then!! :-X :-X
Realtalk, do you anything surrounding the situation as to why Paddy Bradley hasnt been training.
To say it is to do with poor attitude is rediculous.
Reading in the Star today he says that he didnt train as he wasnt going to be properly focused with the ban hanging over his head, and this was going to do no good for the rest of the players. I think thats a fair enough point.
I also know that being from his own club he has trained away continousally and always had the intention of going back to Derry. In fact, no one in the club knew until Sun night he was going to the DRA as he wanted to keep everything quiet and didnt want media attention surrounding it
That doesnt seem to merit a label of poor attitude
Quote from: Hungry Exile on May 31, 2007, 01:12:47 AM
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
In order to win the really tight games Tyrone need all these guys in peak shape and for this reason I think McGuigan will be too much of a miss.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley however neither of these two guys have consistently did it at county level against the likes of Tyrone, Armagh and Kerry
Loughshore lad,
You've got caught in a time trap & it's time to waken up and smell the coffee!
I went down to Clones to see Tyrone against Fermanagh & to be honest with the exception of Sean C & Gormley they were nothing to right home about.
Ricey has lost the plot & he thinks he's back playing Ice hockey. He was a good McKeever type terrier a couple of seasons ago, but he has lost the basics.
Granted O'Neill had a fantastic season in 05, but that was a single season, he was sub in 03 & has been plagued with injury ever since.
Mulligan scored the goal of the century against Dublin to kick start his season in 05 at the QF stage, but without Peter to draw the defence he is nothing special. I will give him credit for a bit of craft to "buy" the foul by Niall Bogues to get the second last score of the Fermanagh game & fair play to him!!
Hughes was a passenger at Clones as was Dooher for most of the game.
The full back spot for Tyrone is severely suspect. It was obvious Jack O'Connor had tutored Fermanagh to place a decent high fielder at the edge of the square ala Donaghy. One goal & one great save later from the 2 Femanagh midfielders they lost their confidence and potentially the scalp of the championship!! Do you think Brian McIver won't have thought of he same!!
For Tyrone to be relying on Cavlin at 31 to save them, they are not in good shape at the moment.
The young lad in corner forward looked very sharp in the second half as did Tommy McGuigan in the first, Com C is not of the same calibre as his brother & Mellon is an average journey man. McCullagh just blows hot and cold.
I think at this point of the season Derry are in as good a shape as Tyrone. A couple of lucky decisions from the ref (ala Peter C free against Armagh in the semi replay of 05) and Derry could get an Ulster - & I believe that is the only piece of silverware any Ulster team will be lifting this year!
Tyrone paid Brian McGuigan to come back from Oz, & they will need him plus O'Neill, plus Mulgrew firing on all cylinders by August, but with Donegal next & the restructured back door system the balance of players may not be good enough to last to then!! :-X :-X
You have not read any of my posts too well. Where did I say Tyrone would win anything this season? I merely said that they had 5 exceptional players who would all need to be playing at the peak of their powers in order for them to have a chance of winning anything this season. Out side of these 5 Tyrone struggle just like the vast majority of other counties. Brian McGuigan will not be playing any football this season and he will simply be too much of a miss for Tyrone to overcome.
You are talking about Tyrone having a suspect full back I think you will find I actually highlighted this a few pages back. I happen to know Brian McIver and have no doubts he will be targeting the dodgy Tyrone full back - just like he did when Donegal beat Derry in the ulster championship semi final last season ;D ;D
Quote from: Springfield on May 31, 2007, 08:25:37 AM
Realtalk, do you anything surrounding the situation as to why Paddy Bradley hasnt been training.
To say it is to do with poor attitude is rediculous.
Reading in the Star today he says that he didnt train as he wasnt going to be properly focused with the ban hanging over his head, and this was going to do no good for the rest of the players. I think thats a fair enough point.
I also know that being from his own club he has trained away continousally and always had the intention of going back to Derry. In fact, no one in the club knew until Sun night he was going to the DRA as he wanted to keep everything quiet and didnt want media attention surrounding it
That doesnt seem to merit a label of poor attitude
i wudnt say poor attitude but springfield wud it not be fair to say he could have trained once a week with them to show a bit of committment? he was always goin to take this to the highest level (as anyone would) so there was always the chance he would be back. county players in derry dont have the desire anymore. it just doesnt seem as much of an honour as it used to be. now its about travellin expenses, free gear and how well the county look after them and not the other way round! (im not singlin pb out here) i just feel if he was goin to keep appealin with the possibility of bein available v antrim should he not have trained with the county at some stage rather than "checking in with them" as he said in his interview. whats your opinions on this springfield?
Well Louper his atitude to the county set up seems a lot more commited than a certain defender from your own club
Quote from: fer fox ache on May 31, 2007, 09:25:59 AM
Well Louper his atitude to the county set up seems a lot more commited than a certain defender from your own club
Joe O'Kane made his mind up not to play county football this year PB always knew he was coming back and probably sooner rather than later. Im just sayin if he was going to keep appealing with the chance of getting back for Antrim match i cant understand why he didnt train with them at all through this period. Do u not agree that he could have gave them a few sessions even if nothin else to keep himself right, and to keep in contention for a
starting place?
lads, in all fairness- the Derry side in 93 were champions , but would grind out results by stopping teams play with their physicality and scored more form half back line from play than the forwards did.
You cant really compare the sides as football has changed so much the footballer of today is lighter , faster and fitter.
But I would say there is not much in it regarding the sides.
I would say Derry full back line today beat the FB line then.
93 - McKeever, No full back , Scullion
v
07 McGuckian , McCloy , & ?? (sometimes OKane)
The keepers - well there wouldnt be a whole lot in it, with McCusker getting my nod.
HB lines - no contest 93 version wins against any current day formation.
MF - while Derry 93 wins, in a one on one analysis, MgGilligan (one of my all time footballing heroes) would not be a patch in footballing terms against Doherty - but McGilligan just was the perfect foil for Tohills runs forward.
HF line - neither team had a half forward line worth talking about. Looking back in fond memory of the 93 HF line means you are forgetting how rubbish they were.
All they did was fall back and allow the half forwards run up the field to score in the confusion and space this superb 'tactic' created.
Draw.
FF line
I'd give the 07 line the nod.
PAddy & Eoin & Muldoon v
yellow joe (who couldnt be picked against a six county team as if he got hit he'd be out of the game)
The honest and decent Seamus Downey and ace free taker Gormley
thats how I see it lads.
We hit form that year, maybe that half back tactic was created rather than just happened to be what the three boys liked doing.
But I dont think we are much different then compared to now.
my opinion obviously.
PB told Paddy Crozier he wanted to get away from it all for a few weeks, let the team prepare for the Antrim match without the shadow of his suspension, the hype of his unavailibility and then the rumours of his appeal to the DRA affect the squads preparation. I think it was a good enough call.
As far as Im aware he wasnt at all convinced that the DRA would find in favour of him, not because of the case, but because he and G O Kane were so confident that the Ulster appeal would work , they were dumfounded when it didnt.
As far as attitude and desire goes, you dont know PB very much if you think he hasnt either of these. I would go as far as toi say Iv never seen a more focused person who trains hard, works lots on his own and always aims to prove critics wrong
Quote from: Springfield on May 31, 2007, 10:14:32 AM
As far as attitude and desire goes, you dont know PB very much if you think he hasnt either of these. I would go as far as toi say Iv never seen a more focused person who trains hard, works lots on his own and always aims to prove critics wrong
maybe a bit harsh alrite, but iwasnt singling out PB i mean in general the real desire to do good for ure county seems to be lacking a bit.
as for PB doing work on his own it seems very evident that this is true. the transformation from him bein "all left" was unbelievable, and this didnt come about from swingin the right boot at the ball a few times! it musta took some work so fair play. and if wot u say about PB not wantin to upset the team etc is genuine then fair play to him for puttin the team first. we have an actual chance of winnin ulster this year so im lookin fwd to the season ahead!
Have to say the word that I hear from his fellow county players from Bellaghy, is that they say Bradley works real hard at his game and that he is not found wanting in that respect
Quote from: Springfield on May 31, 2007, 10:14:32 AM
PB told Paddy Crozier he wanted to get away from it all for a few weeks, let the team prepare for the Antrim match without the shadow of his suspension, the hype of his unavailibility and then the rumours of his appeal to the DRA affect the squads preparation. I think it was a good enough call.
As far as Im aware he wasnt at all convinced that the DRA would find in favour of him, not because of the case, but because he and G O Kane were so confident that the Ulster appeal would work , they were dumfounded when it didnt.
As far as attitude and desire goes, you dont know PB very much if you think he hasnt either of these. I would go as far as toi say Iv never seen a more focused person who trains hard, works lots on his own and always aims to prove critics wrong
what a martyr :D
Lynchboy, I have always enjoyed your comments and usually I find them not to far off the mark. Argued a few strong points with you...nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately I have to say that I find your assessment to be so inaccurate of this current squad in comparsion to the 93 squad...I am actually shocked...seriously!!!!...that someone who seems to have a reasonable grasp fo football has made the assessment that you have just made scares me into thinking....have you got a f**king clue at all ??? ???
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 31, 2007, 10:32:40 AM
Lynchboy, I have always enjoyed your comments and usually I find them not to far off the mark. Argued a few strong points with you...nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately I have to say that I find your assessment to be so inaccurate of this current squad in comparsion to the 93 squad...I am actually shocked...seriously!!!!...that someone who seems to have a reasonable grasp fo football has made the assessment that you have just made scares me into thinking....have you got a f**king clue at all ??? ???
Obv not if you think I havent ! :)
Max, youre a bit hard on Lynchbhoy there.
Come on now, the Derry team of 93 was a real credit, and all that, but they werent all superstars. Without getting personal, I can think of four or five average enough players on the 93 team, and I`m sure you can as well. (At least they have all-ireland medals).
I can think of quite a few of them who would really really struggle in todays game.
No full back, would JMG be RHB on todays team, given that it was his fitness got him in, and they are all fit nowadays. FMC at 7, not so sure. How would Big Mc Gilligan fare in todays game, or big Heaney, etc etc.
A key point i think is the quality of your subs bench this year - much better than 93.
Keepers I`m not sure about, but the other 20 would be as follows.
93 Scullion, Mc Keever, Downey, Tohill, Mc Gilligan, Barton, Gormley, Brolly, Cassidy, S Downey.
07 Mc Guckian, Mc Cloy, Lockhart, Liam Hinphy, Doherty, Lynch, PB, Muldoon, Devlin, and dark horse C Mc Keever.
Thats ten from each team, say 11 each if you include both keepers. A skinner doing everything right also in there.
Just for the sake of it, heres my actual team.
GK(?)
McKeever, Mc Cloy, Scullion,
Downey, Lockhart, Hinphy/McKeever
Tohill Mc Gilligan
Doherty, Barton Lynch
Gormley, Muldoon, P Bradley.
Sorry Max, but thats 7 out of 14 places for current squad. Lynchbhoy`s not that far away!
Just an opinion of course!
is there a match on this Sunday? or are we just going to be living on past glorys? :D
can the 'weak wee lads' from Antrim give the in-breds a game?! surely not...
Joint team 93 and present:
McCusker
McKeever Scullion McGuckin
McGurk Downey Coleman
Tohill McGilligan
Gilligan Barton Muldoon
Brolly Bradley Gormley
for anybody to take Downey out of CHB in preference of Lockhart, well its just not worth discussion. anyone who has Gilligan on ahead of any of the Derry 93 forwards...let me put it this way...simply does not know if a ball is stuffed or pumped
How Gilligan is on any Derry team is beyond me
Quote from: Uladh on May 31, 2007, 12:03:15 PM
How Gilligan is on any Derry team is beyond me
I used to have this opinion but having seen him in the league a few times this year, he seems a different player than his last stint with the county. I just hope he continues to show up when it comes to the bigger games.
Derry hf line in 93 were VERY poor as forwards.
Heaney played as a third mf, Barton as an auxillary chb dropping behind mf to cover for Downey (who incidentally was a poor man marker as a chb). Cassidy was the only forward in that line and maybe it was because he had no support - struggled all championship long.
But the only alternative we had was McNicholl who went on as a sub and was taken off in the same game - which tells its own story.
People often look back on past meories and they become better with age. Same happening here. I thought the hf line and FB position were poor then, and still do.
Sundays game has brightened a bit with the option of Paddy B in the forwards.
As long as we get all the frees we are due with antrim obv fouling our lads a lot, then Paddy will slot them all over.
It mightn't be the close 10 point vistory now that we thought it might be, we could win by even more! ;)
Lads,
On the topic of 93, this question was asked of me last week - Can you name the subs named on the teamsheet for the Final?
Could only think of 3, McNicholl, Diamon, Tohill
Does anyone have the listing
Raffery,Mulvenna, Ferris,Burns,McNicholl,Quinn
Max, your most recent post re Downey v Lockhart is a cheap shot. they are two different types, one stays and man marks, the other went forward like a greyhound out of the traps, that needed Barton sweeping up for him if the move broke down.
I have gone for a team with the best players, and one or two may not be in their all time favourite position, but still worthy of a position they could still play. Are you saying Downey couldnt play an attacking half back role?
Downey outdoubted class, no argument. But you cant come on and say others havent a clue, UNLESS YOU STICK YOUR OWN NECK OUT, and pick YOUR team comprising of the past and present.
Now, we`ll start with Quinn, and then theres Cassidy!!
Come on now, lets have it please. Impress us all with your team selection.
At a guess from memory...the subs
Don kelly, Danny Quinn, Eamon Burns, Steven Mulvenna(the only Antrim man to have an All ireland senior football medal) Richard Ferris, Dermot Mc Nicholl, Karl Diamond, Briam Mc Cormaick and possibly Dermot ONeill
John Joe I wont even discuss it, for anyone to suggest Lockhart is a better CHB than Downey, a man who played there in numerous championships for derry (in winning Ulster and All Irelands FFS) against a man who has never played a championship match until this sunday in the position. Thats just a start. I wont do it, your wasting my time
John Joe........have been keeping an eye on you recently........
How would you rate Frank Delargy as a manager/Coach???
;) :D :D :D
Take it you dont rate him max ::)
Thats not it :D :D
have another guess
Now Max!
Not saying at all that Lockhart is better than Downey. But are you saying Lockhart wouldnt make your team.
In fact, forget my team completely, what would yours be.
Any one can criticise, but unless you have a go yourself, it still comes across as a cheap shot!
I wont...and I'tell u why...nearly all of the current team have not even gotten us to an Ulster final, never mind won and then go on and won an All Ireland. If you cannot get to even an Ulster final how can they even start to be compared. Lochhart and Muldoon have Ulster medals thats it. Bradley played in one Ulster final in which he was shite. All of the players in the 93 team at some point delivered in big games be it Ulster or Croke park or against Down/ Donegals(91,92,93,94) who were All Ireland champions.Others delivered in 87 and others in 98, never mind the National Leagues. For example Mark Lynch has yet to play ONE big game against quality opposition in championship that would make you say...yeah he's there, so how can he even be put in the same sentence. These are the facts...I am not even using attitude as a criteria yet
Max aye know the craic ur on about wit Johnjoe ;)
JJ you havent answered my question.....how do u rate Delargy
Max, fair enough, you make some good points there.
But you can also use your imagination to work out how many of the 93 team would be lining out on Sunday, if they were still at their peak. open to debate, but I`d still say 5 or 6 of the current squad would be there or thereabouts.
Lockhart, Doherty, Lynch, Bradley, Muldoon all certs. Only question who on the 93 team would lose out.
Its all about opinions, anyway.
North Antrim, you`re really on the ball. Have you anything to contribute here?
As a hurling man u wudnt prob value my opinion......although after reading sum of yours i have as much knowledge as u seem to him.....Mark Lynch - Not how can you seriously justify his inclusion as of yet he hasnt delivered for Derry. Name me a player from 93 team who didnt deliver at some stage of their campaign.....Lockhart before downey at CHB!! My word thatwas shocking to say the least......or maybe you know traits about these players that we dont
John Joe
Max has declined to comment on this (maybe a sensitive issue) :'(, but thought you may be interested.
A wee birdie told me you and him go back a long way?! Even into management!!
Seems as though the Ex- Bellaghy manager has really gone and done
it this time :o
Appartently one of his victims was a certain Bellaghy referee.
But then again, rumour has it, it was all a scam and Paddy Bradley now has the deeds for that particular property!! :D
Check out the link JJ.
http://www.voicesnewspaper.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=829
John Joe - why will you not answer question - How do u rate Delargy
North Antrim, seeing you might actually get the chance to see Mark Lynch in the flesh for the first time, on Sunday, by default because you wouldnt be there if there was no hurling, maybe then you may be able to offer some opinion. Until then, sorry but its my feeling you are well out of your depth here, especially on the subject of Derry Football.
Maybe best sticking to the Antrim hurling thread. No offence intended, not wanting a needless sllanging match!
You have taken Max`s post and just repeated what he said. Have you an opinion of your own to offer this thread?
John Joe - as u said in a previous post - we are entitled to our opinions......im just curious why u wont answer my question bout Delargy...thats all...not trying to start anything. I have seen Mark Lynch in the flesh believe it or not....was at Derry V Armagh match 2 years ago, watched live coverage of DERRY v Donegal last year, and he didnt count. Now i hope he comes good but im only arguing that at the minute he doest merit inclusion on 93 team.
Your an Antrim man are you not??
MITM, I saw the article and I`m gobsmacked.
We all know the man in question, and I am not in a position to judge him. It looks bad though, and my first reaction is I hope to God he can get all this sorted out. Everyone is innocent until they are proved guilty, and we should all be very careful here.
Personally I like the guy, outside of football, and I hope he gets through this. Not a nice place to be, I wouldnt think.
Quote from: johnjoe on May 31, 2007, 02:40:35 PM
MITM, I saw the article and I`m gobsmacked.
We all know the man in question, and I am not in a position to judge him. It looks bad though, and my first reaction is I hope to God he can get all this sorted out. Everyone is innocent until they are proved guilty, and we should all be very careful here.
Personally I like the guy, outside of football, and I hope he gets through this. Not a nice place to be, I wouldnt think.
:D
NA, like yourself, Antrim thru and thru, for better or worse, and till I die.......
But with a genuine respect for Derry football, having been in and around it for a few years now. And Mark Lynch IS the business, trust me. So to is Justin Crozier, if that makes anyone feel better.
Will shout myself hoarse for the Saffrons, but when Antrim exit the c`ship, if Derry are still there, I`d go and give them a shout. Maybe it was because my early Croke Park memories are full of Mc Elhinney with the headband in the mid seventies, and all that, but Ive always had an interest in derry football,, esp being from a neighbouring parish.
Antrim WILL make it to the top, but I dont see it happening without Kelly, K Mc Gourty, Dougan, G O Boyle,Micko, Magill, and Convery, etc and this year there are to many rookies learning their trade. Antrim have a 3-5 year plan, and no one is more confident than me re our ability to do this, etc, but we will need all our best players available, fit, and hungry.
JohnJoe what is the situation with sean kelly ( a fantastic footballer) and kevin Mc Gourty. I presume kelly is injured and kevin is in a huff he didnt get his way over something.
Magill and Dougan are too fond of the social life and have not got the hunger so rule them out!
kelly was been doing a pgce in england and is only getting finished now,
i would imagine he will need to stay there for 2 yrs after he qualifies as its something to do with teaching requirements in england as same has happened alot of my friends and mcgourty was concentrating on sigerson and slagged off gormleys initial panel so wasnt asked back
Wish Jody and the boys good luck on sunday, but I see it as the way jody has set out his stall, discipline, committment etc, then a few of the guys missing this year will get another crack next year, and they will know what is required if they want a jersey.
They were given out too freely in the past, and too many took liberties. Jody has brought an all or nothing culture, and while it may hurt in the short term, it will benefit Antrim greatly in the medium term.
No great expectation this year, but hopefully a few good performances will act as a catalyst for next year. Get the respect back in the jersey, and the hunger, and there should be better days ahead for the long suffering Saffronian.
in my experience of kevin it wouldnt matter what jersey it was or who he was playing for, he has no respect for anyone or thing except himself. which is a pity he is a talented footballer and can be an ok person.
Quote from: Black and white on May 31, 2007, 04:31:12 PM
in my experience of kevin it wouldnt matter what jersey it was or who he was playing for, he has no respect for anyone or thing except himself. which is a pity he is a talented footballer and can be an ok person....
when he's sleeping!!!
Derry: B Gillis, M McGoldrick, K McCloy (capt), G O'Kane, P Cartin, SM Lockhart, C McKeever, F Doherty, J Conway, B McGoldrick, C Gilligan, J Diver, R Wilkinson, E Muldoon, M Lynch
No Bradley, no great surprise
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on May 31, 2007, 12:44:05 PM
At a guess from memory...the subs
Don kelly, Danny Quinn, Eamon Burns, Steven Mulvenna(the only Antrim man to have an All ireland senior football medal) Richard Ferris, Dermot Mc Nicholl, Karl Diamond, Briam Mc Cormaick and possibly Dermot ONeill
Max,
Good stab - was Collie McGurk & Bateson on the bench / panel?
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 31, 2007, 08:41:11 AM
Quote from: Hungry Exile on May 31, 2007, 01:12:47 AM
Quote from: loughshore lad on May 30, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
Tyrone have 5 players who are exceptional - Ricey, Gormley, Cavanagh, O'Neill and Mulligan. Then you have McGuigan who makes the difference and can control the game in the really tight situations.
Derry have two exceptional players in my opinion - Kevin McGuckin and Paddy Bradley ...
Loughshore lad,
You've got caught in a time trap & it's time to waken up and smell the coffee! ...
Tyrone paid Brian McGuigan to come back from Oz, & they will need him plus O'Neill, plus Mulgrew firing on all cylinders by August, but with Donegal next & the restructured back door system the balance of players may not be good enough to last to then!! :-X :-X
You have not read any of my posts too well. Where did I say Tyrone would win anything this season? I merely said that they had 5 exceptional players who would all need to be playing at the peak of their powers in order for them to have a chance of winning anything this season. Out side of these 5 Tyrone struggle just like the vast majority of other counties. Brian McGuigan will not be playing any football this season and he will simply be too much of a miss for Tyrone to overcome.
You are talking about Tyrone having a suspect full back I think you will find I actually highlighted this a few pages back. I happen to know Brian McIver and have no doubts he will be targeting the dodgy Tyrone full back - just like he did when Donegal beat Derry in the ulster championship semi final last season ;D ;D
Loughshore,
You have valid points there, and I must confess I haven't read all of your comments as I only get a chance to glance through the pages. My point was you were unfair to exaggerate the cream of Tyrone and dismiss the dross of Derry.
A set of simple comparisons, if you were to ask my preferences:-
Ricey v Lockhart; no comparison Lockhart every time - now the "class stakes" are 5/3 in favour of Tyrone
Mulligan v Muldoon; again Muldoon wins hands down - he has been used as the Derry utility player for years to sort out problem areas - now the score is 4/4
What I will agree with Derry's best players don't come close to the calibre of Cavanagh & McGuigan. Both players destroy teams consistently by getting the ball into the danger area. Also Tyrone had a certain Peter C when they last won the AI.
As for McIver I have watched him when he was over your near neighbours & he appears to have the ability to read a game well and make timely switches - a valuable commodity. Is it true Big Adrian is part of his backroom team?
Quote from: hardstation on June 01, 2007, 01:01:19 AM
QuoteIs it true Big Adrian is part of his backroom team?
Yes, the curly haired one is with 'whatdoyoucallit' in the Donegal setup. He seems to like being part of the backroom staff anywhere. He was Mickey Moron's right hand man with UUJ this year. He calls more of the shots than he gets credit for.
I must admit I laughed at the Sigerson final this year as two Ballinderry men were both "driving from the back seat" McGuckin with UUJ at one side of the TV platform & Dessie Ryan standing just behind the QUB squad at the other side of the platform giving"Jamsie the odd bit of advice." I wonder did they share a car down the road as Adrian would have been goin past Dessie's house!! :D :D
Quote from: johnjoe on May 31, 2007, 03:15:32 PM
Antrim WILL make it to the top, but I dont see it happening without Kelly, K Mc Gourty, Dougan, G O Boyle,Micko, Magill, and Convery, etc and this year there are to many rookies learning their trade. Antrim have a 3-5 year plan, and no one is more confident than me re our ability to do this, etc, but we will need all our best players available, fit, and hungry.
Therein lies why we will not overly trouble a poor Derry side on Sunday. Add Andrew McLean to that list and you have over half a team sitting out for various reasons. Some of the reasons given are extremely weak and you have to question if there is the will to make Antrim force again. McLean is certainly not the only inter-coutny footballer doing finals this summer - is he the only one to opt out?
We are short at least three of our best defenders (Convery, Kelly, McLean - even possibly Niall Ward). The forward line is weak with at least 2/3 of the full forward line already booked onto a Boston bound plane on Tuesday.
Unless and until we get players who fully realise the commitment and sacrifice necessary to be competitive in Senior inter-county football, we will wallow in the depths of Division 4 and the Tommy Murphy Cup.
L'Derry by at least 5.
Bradley trained last night with the Derry squad in Castledawson, his first since the suspension!!
also, Big Mal of Bellaghy is coaching the goalkeepers :o
Slim why are you so surprised about Mal coaching the keepers. He is now one fo the top keeper coaches about. In that there is no doubt.
Big Adrian...what a legend
QuoteMax has declined to comment on this (maybe a sensitive issue) , but thought you may be interested.
A wee birdie told me you and him go back a long way?! Even into management!!
Man In The Middle, I gave the reason why I would not pick a team...here it is again...just for you as you seem intellectually challenged. My reasoning seems so obvious...at least to me
QuoteI wont...and I'tell u why...nearly all of the current team have not even gotten us to an Ulster final, never mind won and then go on and won an All Ireland. If you cannot get to even an Ulster final how can they even start to be compared. Lochhart and Muldoon have Ulster medals thats it. Bradley played in one Ulster final in which he was shite. All of the players in the 93 team at some point delivered in big games be it Ulster or Croke park or against Down/ Donegals(91,92,93,94) who were All Ireland champions.Others delivered in 87 and others in 98, never mind the National Leagues. For example Mark Lynch has yet to play ONE big game against quality opposition in championship that would make you say...yeah he's there, so how can he even be put in the same sentence. These are the facts...I am not even using attitude as a criteria yet
JohnJoe, can i just clarify - who is the McKeever in your half-back line:
Quote
GK(?)
McKeever, Mc Cloy, Scullion,
Downey, Lockhart, Hinphy/McKeever
Tohill Mc Gilligan
Doherty, Barton Lynch
Gormley, Muldoon, P Bradley
Re all those antrim players not playing - I'm pretty sure that McClean has been having injury problems. O'Boyle only started back to club football this year, Convery is 28 and maybe Jody is thinking of players for the future, Micko and Niall Ward are not county footballers and Magill has never had the commitment. McGourty - more trouble than he's worth though disappointing about Kelly.
Out of the list maybe Convery and Kelly I would like to see there. The others I can see justifiable reasons for them not being there.
Will hunting, in answer to your question, I really rate your number 7 on Sunday. I think by the end of this season youse will all be thinking along the same lines.
i know its premature to compare him with FP, the mo 7 in 93, but Mc Keever has a huge future, right in the mould of the previous Mc Keever. (legend)
Id bet most people on this thread are surprised to see him listed on Sunday, but those who have seen him in action a few times this year are not at all surprised by his inclusion. You saw it here first!
Yeah, JohnJoe, it's a bit premature alright!! I would also go so far as to say it's madness including Cathal McKeever in a 2007/1993 select!
Not surprised to see him starting on Sunday at all as I named him in a team I predicted earlier in the week. Let's hope he puts in a good performance.
Am I missing it - what is the Derry team if it's been named?
Derry (SFC v Antrim): B Gillis; M McGoldrick, K McCloy, G O'Kane; P Cartin, SM Lockhart, C McKeever; F Doherty, J Conway; B McGoldrick, C Gilligan, J Diver; R Wilkinson, E Muldoon, M Lynch.
Subs: S O'Kane, Patsy Bradley, Paul Bradley, C Devlin, R Dillon, G Donaghy, L Hinphey, J Keenan, E Lynn, F McEldowney, P Murphy, P O'Hea.
Strength in depth :-\
Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 01, 2007, 08:43:41 AM
Quote from: johnjoe on May 31, 2007, 03:15:32 PM
Antrim WILL make it to the top, but I dont see it happening without Kelly, K Mc Gourty, Dougan, G O Boyle,Micko, Magill, and Convery, etc and this year there are to many rookies learning their trade. Antrim have a 3-5 year plan, and no one is more confident than me re our ability to do this, etc, but we will need all our best players available, fit, and hungry.
Therein lies why we will not overly trouble a poor Derry side on Sunday. Add Andrew McLean to that list and you have over half a team sitting out for various reasons. Some of the reasons given are extremely weak and you have to question if there is the will to make Antrim force again. McLean is certainly not the only inter-coutny footballer doing finals this summer - is he the only one to opt out?
We are short at least three of our best defenders (Convery, Kelly, McLean - even possibly Niall Ward). The forward line is weak with at least 2/3 of the full forward line already booked onto a Boston bound plane on Tuesday.
Unless and until we get players who fully realise the commitment and sacrifice necessary to be competitive in Senior inter-county football, we will wallow in the depths of Division 4 and the Tommy Murphy Cup.
L'Derry by at least 5.
I had a visit from 1/3 of the Antrim full forward line. He has asked me to point out that I inadverently typed 2 in the above quote rather than 1. Sorry about that. He also told me which corner he is going to put the penalties as well.
Bradley isnt named in the 27 but that doesnt mean to say he wont play.
As far as I know you can name 15 subs at senior county level and it'll be no surprise to see Bradley coming on to rescue Derry in the last 10 minutes when they are 5 down to the mighty Saffrons.
Quote5 down to the mighty Saffrons
Is that a crossword clue? :P
Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 01, 2007, 01:21:41 PM
I had a visit from 1/3 of the Antrim full forward line. He has asked me to point out that I inadverently typed 2 in the above quote rather than 1. Sorry about that. He also told me which corner he is going to put the penalties as well.
who was the visitor? paddy "hands" cunningham? everyone knows young mcgourty is off to boston and hes not the only one.
Eugene Kelly was on the panel in 1993 aswell tho saw no action at all.
If McKeever keeps his head, doesnt get involved in the niggly stuff and cooncentrates on the football he will be a great addition to the team.our half backs dont contibute enuff goin fwd so hopefully he can rectify this.
surprised with Crook startin altho PC has persisted with him lately
Derry to win by 4
Tifosi bianconeri
its obvious that theres a lot of loud mouths in the antrim camp, irish news knows their every move!
saffron sam. not sure it's for you to be saying someone has a weak excuse if they're doing they're finals. some may well still be playing but each to their own - I don't think anyone can be faulted for taking a year out to be honest.
CiKe ur 100% spot on...if the lad failed the exams, there would not be one sole in Antrim outside of his family who would give one F**k. Some people can do both others can't. Some would see the training as release others would se as additional pressure on time management.
Derry to be losing at half time, Paddy to sit the lads down, give them a mouthful, Derry turn it up a notch in the second half, 5 point win
Any chance of the weather stopping today's games at Casement?
There is an article about todays game in the Sunday Times, and who is one of the main contributors....??? You have guessed it, the boul Kevin Mc Gourty. Even though he is not involved he wouldnt let an oppurtunity to bask in the limelight pass him by. I wonder does he keep a scrapbook of all his interviews and pull his plums over it......??
It's been pissing in Belfast all morning, bring ur brollys lads ;)
what does he say? i like kevin and always got on well with him but obviously he doesn't do himself any favours at times. i'll reserve judgement till i see what he has to say though.
What exactly did he say?? i think i see derry having to fight alot harder than they expect in this match...
derry by a point
What happened that the football match ended up being postponed, when the hurling match was able to go ahead?
The hurling should never have gone ahead. The pitch was waterlogged even then. Don't think I've ever been so soaked and cold in my entire life.
Footballers are pansies :)
Great day for Antrim, its not often they get through the 1st day of their championship campaign unbeaten. Well done to all involved!
soaking.
stood all day in casement in the rain waiting for the big match.gutted! minors were brutal, derry played them off the pitch. serious lack of individual class. number 7 A. Gribben worked hard. as for the hurling - brutal!
What happens next week ? Do we have to pay in again ?
They announced that we would all get in free.
free in, gates will be open for all
ticket holders for stand contact the county board to get renewed tickets
free in and hopefully a decent day should/could make it a special day - encourage all to attend
Quote from: PlayWithTheWind on June 03, 2007, 06:29:02 PM
as for the hurling - brutal!
Were you expecting a great game in those conditions?
Will be interesting to see the attendance next weekend. There's talk of prices putting people of games. If its advertised well could be a decent crowd which there may not otherwise have been.
Is it free in to everyone, even those who didn't attend today?
Your skin will need to be rightly wrinkled from the previous week in order to get in.
i'm gathering from the championship that you should have got something when you paid in and unless you can produce it next week you'll be paying in again!
Quote from: pintsofguinness on June 03, 2007, 09:27:20 PM
i'm gathering from the championship that you should have got something when you paid in and unless you can produce it next week you'll be paying in again!
Thats only for the covered stand. The rest of the ground will be free.
forgot to say the minor captain number 3 d.mc cann worked hard too.
uslter hurling is at an all time low
heard a few people complaining about the football being called off. thier argument was if hurling can be played on it then surely football can be. valid point, although i think it was the right decision to call the match off. boys train all year for this match and to have to train all year to play 70mins in those conditions is not fair on anyone!
Quote from: hardstation on June 03, 2007, 08:55:43 PM
That's the end of Conor Mc Gourty's championship then, with him flying to Boston on Tuesday (from what I read on this board).
young mcgourty is now flying to boston a week later, tues 12th a st galls boy told me that today.
Mc Gourty should not be involved if he is f**king off after the match.
That's a total farce if he's planning on flying out already. What's the point in fans even going to watch the team or having a discussion about them when they don't give much of a fcuk, and are planning for failure. Terrible attitude going into the Championship
Quote from: ExiledGael on June 03, 2007, 10:01:40 PM
That's a total farce if he's planning on flying out already. What's the point in fans even going to watch the team or having a discussion about them when they don't give much of a fcuk, and are planning for failure. Terrible attitude going into the Championship
Im pretty sure he didnt get the attitude from the grass......
he hasnt stated hes going away to anyone. jody doesnt know about boston. its all kept low key around the antrim camp. sadly hes not the only one going.
Quote from: PlayWithTheWind on June 03, 2007, 10:15:01 PM
he hasnt stated hes going away to anyone. jody doesnt know about boston. its all kept low key around the antrim camp. sadly hes not the only one going.
Has Jody Gormley been on the moon? The dogs in the street knew he was going. I think its a kick in the balls for their clubs too.
I just dont understand the mentality of it. Surely at training they are all focused on winning and convinced they will win & having this sentiment drummed into them. But surely somewhere in his head he is thinking "i dont think we will win" cos he is away in the morning after the game......
As far as i know Cj isnt for the states. His folks were against it and he hasnt been going for some time now, i may well be wrong but its not often i am :P
anyway, Derry live to fight another day but the clock is ticking....
What about McGourty - is he really going to Boston this week ?
Quote from: orangeman on June 04, 2007, 10:12:24 AM
What about McGourty - is he really going to Boston this week ?
No, I made that up.
im sure jody doesnt have to stick with the same team, im sure if he finds out about cj going he won't play him, if that is right that he is still going.
on the downside, more chance of paddy bradley being involved in the re fixed game
young McGourty is flying to boston on tuesday 12th june - FACT!
yes i believe Conor is going next week but he's not the only one from that team picked, Cunningham is going as well i hear and maybe a few more. it's a big loss for our club in both codes but we have had to deal with that for the last few years.
we have at least five starters in both teams going soon it's a killer for mangers but what do you do, going away for the summer is some craic. should he be on the panel when knowing he's heading off? no but that's up to the manager
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2007, 12:48:04 PM
Aye, he's definatley going. Just got it confirmed to me. Is thon brother of his still going? Remember he came on the board asking us if there was any truth in the rumour? :D
this should actually go in the Sunday World, what a knob that man is registering here under the name ''Shaws Road'' and asking about himself in an attempt to have people talking about him. what a tit. pity the silly hoor didnt hide his e-mail address before hand :D ;D
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2007, 12:48:04 PM
Is thon brother of his still going? Remember he came on the board asking us if there was any truth in the rumour? :D
Hopefully his is a one way ticket.
Quote from: PrivatePile on June 03, 2007, 11:34:43 AM
There is an article about todays game in the Sunday Times, and who is one of the main contributors....??? You have guessed it, the boul Kevin Mc Gourty. Even though he is not involved he wouldnt let an oppurtunity to bask in the limelight pass him by. I wonder does he keep a scrapbook of all his interviews and pull his plums over it......??
I think PrivatePile has it covered about "Shaws Road" !
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2007, 01:39:33 PM
Quote from: The Real SlimShady on June 04, 2007, 01:35:27 PM
Quote from: hardstation on June 04, 2007, 12:48:04 PM
Aye, he's definatley going. Just got it confirmed to me. Is thon brother of his still going? Remember he came on the board asking us if there was any truth in the rumour? :D
this should actually go in the Sunday World, what a knob that man is registering here under the name ''Shaws Road'' and asking about himself in an attempt to have people talking about him. what a tit. pity the silly hoor didnt hide his e-mail address before hand :D ;D
What do you expect from a pig but a grunt. He also posted on how intelligent himself and Dan Mc Cartan are. What a spa! :D
Quote from: shaws road on February 22, 2007, 05:02:41 PM
nico have been watching your post on some other blogs on this site you are very critical of him lol he has actually never played well for antrim your right and does go on abit but he was unreal for Queens and st galls last year as has Sean Kelly been, whom i think is also overrated as has never done it for Antrim anyway thats what i heard bout yesterday and why his no inclusion
Quote from: shaws road on February 22, 2007, 04:07:04 PM
Good win for Queens in Belfield never easy to win at I cant remember last time they won there any ideas? Word on the street is Mc Gourty is very unwell at the present time and has gone for some tests but also heard he came on for second half but paper did not suggest this any inside information? on this also as an antrim man no sign of James Loughry was he on the squad or injured??????
[/quote]
Quote from: shaws road on February 10, 2007, 12:20:26 AM
shaws road very good reply but even like i dont like him mc gourty is the only player in antrim history and will ever be probabaly to play in five all irelands in two years and from what i hear in st galls its massive , mc gourty v kelly only one win winnner with me kelly but according to last sundays paper the irsh times o dywer calls mc gourty as good as egan the county forard for kerry during the golden years surely not micko he is good but not that good
Quote from: shaws road on February 09, 2007, 10:27:23 PM
i hear tonight that the two mc gourty cj and kevin and sean keely have agreed to go to chicago for the summer ina $20,000 move any truth in this from people in boston and they paln to have karl stewart and colm bardy before the summer is out???
You can feel the love for Kevin McGourty on this thread :D :D :D
im guessing hes not the most popular player in Antrim then?
considering he has been at queens for years he couldn't have done to well cos the thick cnut cant spell, or was it to be a double bluff
Can't see any issue whatsoever with a player heading to the States once his county team has been eliminated from the championship; former US-based (for the summer) player and the current Antrim manager will agree with me. Where there may be an issue is with players agreeing to deals in advance, but again such deals are dependent on performance in the championship at home. I hope himself and all the other boys from Antrim and other counties have a very enjoyable, competitive and financially rewarding summer in the States that they wouldn't otherwise get at home in the Tommy Murphy Cup.
From what I have known of Kevin he's dead on, but I don't see why he's up for debate in this thread seeing as he's not on the panel? is this not supposed to be about the game this weekend??
think the mcgourtys are very overrated, kevin and conor. sigerson form really doesnt compare to ulster championship at all. on the other hand players like michael mcgoldrick (derrys corner back) are underrated, he was a very solid player in a brilliant all ireland winning minor full back line where he was slightly overshadowed. Theres also been great competition for places in derrys full back line - mccloy mcguckin lockhart g okane mceldowney, etc, so hes come in quietly.
Just seems to me that players like mcgourty and other good minors are gettin hyped up in the papers these days before they have done anything at senior for the county. Paddy Heaney in the Irish News is wild for it. I mind a few years ago he wrote an article on a young mark lynch with a picture of wayne rooney and a caption saying 'wayne rooney is soccers equivalent of mark lynch'.
If mcguckin was fully fit and marking mcgourty on sunday he'd put him in his pocket
I agree that I've yet to see anything special from Kevin McGourty, just some fine workmanlike performances. Conor, on the other hand, had produced sublime underage performances. You can only go on that at the minute.
I thought McGourty was outstanding for Queens in the Sigerson Final,Fielded some magnificant ball.Other than that havent seem that much else of him.
id have thought hed have acted as a good foil alongside a big high fielding midfielder at centrefield, ala a Joe Quinn,McGourty Centrefield might work.
if you'd have Joe Quinn on as a 'high fielding midfielder' ahead of Michael McCann you need yer head checking.
Who will be Derry's first scorer?
Vote on the Derry website www.derrygaa.ie (http://www.derrygaa.ie)
Strange match today, the best team won no doubt but Antrim looked good at times.
CJ and Paddy Cunnngham kicked some brilliant scores, McGourty is going to be some player in a few years, scored a real peach with the outside of his boot in the second half
Muldoon was impressive, Gilligan at times also
Antrim aren't in the Qualifiers
And Gilligan was awful
Good point!
Quote from: Craigyhill Terror on June 10, 2007, 06:16:47 PM
Antrim aren't in the Qualifiers
And Gilligan was awful
Would agree Gilligan had a poor first half in front of goal, but we killed Antrim in the second half within 2 minutes of the restart. Was it not Gilligan who disposessed the Antrim defender that led to the goal? At the end when Derry was playing cat & mouse on the 45 it was Gilligan who looked up & drove over a pont from 50m. I'm sure Crozier won't mind if he is equally as awful against Monaghan as long as he scores 6 points!!!
Maybe its me...perhaps the sun got to me...but I thought the game was just awful. Derry were very very poor and I thought Antrim was an excuse for a county team. The game was a bore from start to finish. I also thought the ref was going to mess the entire proceddings altogether, what a tube. Derry have an awful lot of improving to do...perhaps the old adage of when playing a poor team they can bring you down to their standard applied to Derry. Lynchboy your fault of the Derry team came to hunt them in fine style today. For the first 10 minutes Derry were direct and put first time ball into Muldoon and occassionally Lynch. We were 6pts up to 1pt...then guess what.....we tried to fist the ball up our arses...drive you nuts. In truth the score line after 20 minutes should have read 10ts to 2pts allowing for reasonable misses, but simple frees and easy chances went to the wall. Derry responded well after half time and the goal ensured an easy win. I read a poster earlier who thought Antrim played really good football at times....I'm stunned.
Slim if the Antrim captain from Cargin cannot get on that forward line we have to assume that the manager should be charged with gross incompetance in assessing him good enough to be captain in the first place.
I left at half time as the sun was baking the son but it didn't pain me as I also thought it was a real yawnathon. Derry realised early on that they weren't up against much and stepped off the gas/lost focus. Antrim were devoid of any game plan.
I'd worry about Crozier. He makes some rare decisions at times. Derry were strolling but for some strange reason he decided to move Lynch into the middle from FF and he just clogged up an already congested area. That was when Antrim began to pick up scraps.
I heard later that Gormley took off Niblock. Is that correct? Why? I thought he was one of Antrim's best players from what I saw. CJ fulfilling his promise rapidly.
Quote from: ONeill on June 10, 2007, 09:30:18 PM
I heard later that Gormley took off Niblock. Is that correct? Why? I thought he was one of Antrim's best players from what I saw.
Niblock is over-rated, the boy cant run. I saw him leave the ground as the match was over, looked as if he went straight to the shower after being taking off. Strange for a player not to leave with the rest of the team.
I seen a poster on this board got interviewed there for the championship show, acting very sensible and mature. Its well seen his university days are behind him.
awful game and on that display we're an awful team.
Beaten by a piss poor Derry side who will get ass raped by Monaghan. Gormley oviously hasnt got a clue what he's at, most of the game he left McGourty & Cunningham up front with FOUR Derry defenders- FOUR!! he seemed to be happy to let Derry run through and pray they put it wide from long range (which they did-12 times!!)
McGourty totally justified his selection, Gallagher was pathetic, though I thought Niblock played rightly.
McVeigh- terrible performance.
Crozier played well and was Antrims next best to McGourty (2 minors from last year!) Mick McCann done well and had some class catches.
Joe Quinn is done.
McGreevey ditto.
Another disasterous year, now the boys can sail off to America and we can get on with the club scene. f**k the Murphy Cup, isnt worth a shite.
Edit: and if anyone knows where the f**k James Loughrey went between 3.30pm and 5pm they can let us know.
looking forward to hearing what excuses John Joe and Slim come up with for that performance...Derry were missing the two Bradleys and Mc Guckian...and still cantered to an easy win. It hard to believe that after 7 months of work that was Antrims best effort. More passion in tea bag. It has been 41 years since Antrim last beat Derry in the championship, 1966...on yesterdays show its going to be good few years more :D
WTF is Brolly doing coaching the Antrim forwards....on the evidence it looks like he has not a clue either. I noticed that in his Sunday column in the Irish Mail on Sunday he never commented on either last Sunday or this about the game, due to his involvment with Antrim....what a joke
Antrim seconds were woeful, Derry only marginally better.
Antrim have at least 6 players just not up to county level and they were always going to be exposed at this level.
No ifs or buts, jody Gormley had an absolute stinker in terms of positional sense and tactically I never saw worse at this level. I will go into more detail later.
The big question is can we get all our best players back on board, because Sean Kelly, kevin Mc Gourty, Tony Convery, Michael Magill, Mark Dougan, Michael Herron (hurling) Gerard O Boyle etc are grade A players who would undoubtedly have made a massive difference. and I can think of a few others.
This is not Derrys problem, and I genuinly wish them well, but they know they will need improvement from yesterdays performance.
On another note, I thought the booing for PB coming on yesterday was nothing short of disgraceful
is pb carrying an injury springfield? the booing was expected after all antrim were cheering derrys wides...spides...any word on skinners suspension?
max, away and take ur head from up his arse why don't you!
what he did to barry cassidy was nothing short of a disgrace, ffs.
and he got off with it.
also max eoin bradley isnt even on the panel so how can you say derry were missing him.
johnjoe, why do you talk about these players who when given the chance did not commit, some had genuine reasons,
others put their social life and egos first!
we are trying to build for the future not take steps backwards.
i know we were piss poor yest but derry have aspirations of winning ulster, we on the other hand have to hope for a decent draw in the tommy murphy probably without one of our better players yesterday.
Quotemax, away and take ur head from up his arse why don't you!
Culchy, your name is very appropriate
Surely its bad enough to have the worst team in Ireland outside of Kilkenny in football without making complete asses of urselves when PB came on...the fault of the whole saga is with the GAA rules, they are a joke...and the onus is on the GAA to fix them
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on June 11, 2007, 11:51:20 AM
Quotemax, away and take ur head from up his arse why don't you!
Culchy, your name is very appropriate
Surely its bad enough to have the worst team in Ireland outside of Kilkenny in football without making complete asses of urselves when PB came on...the fault of the whole saga is with the GAA rules, they are a joke...and the onus is on the GAA to fix them
:D
always get a laugh out of Max. its the GAA's fault poor oul Paddy gripped the Ref by the throat :D
and this coming from the man who spread it all around the world wide web!!!
just pray Paddy doesnt find out who you are Maxy ;)
aye max rite enough why are u defendin pb...its no-ones fault but his own but you are right in one sense that these silly loop holes need to be closed of asap so no more of these ridiculous decisions pop up and people have to serve their time!
Look Slim, Pb grabbed the ref, and he got his suspension...he got off because the GAA rules are a joke....
This is how silly they are...PB grabs the ref, he admits to it at the meeting where he is handed down 3 months, he appeals the whole way and then he gets off.....now if that is not the GAA's responsibility to get those rules fixed...whose is it?
did he admit to it? sure has he not been arguing all along that he never touched him? springfield any word on what skinners suspension will be? is headbutting a 3 month offence?
Heard the ref was going to put him in for alesser offense..... :o
ah for f**k sake...will these wallys ever have to serve any of the correct and proper sentences that should be handed down to them. Every other club has to suffer with missing players when their suspended but glenullin seem to be able to dodge losing their best players at crucial times in the year.
the booing of PB coming on was a piss take, game was finished as i could see so wind your neck in. all counties have some people that will clap at misses and in the first half Derry sure had a few.
Antrim were never going to beat Derry derry were only going to beat themselves with the amount of wides a better team will punish them. no all ireand champions coming from this end of the draw
It keeps 41 years of beating our next door neighbours going. One way traffic in terms of the slagging rights. Keeping them in their rightful place ;) :P :D :D :D
Well I suppose we can take some satisfaction in the fact that last time an antrim club played a derry club in a competitive football game the antrim team won that one :)
You might remember that game Max ;)
skinner is being reported for use of the head without any contact but as far as i gather , once you mention the head its an automatic two month suspension. not justifying the action but had bruno gave skinner his fair share of frees and being going by the rule book in the first place, his marker would have been double yellow carded long before this.
as for PB, he tore a quad muscle as far as im led to believe.how long he will be out remains to be seen.surprised to see him coming on yesterday at all. id say this was just a bit of piss taking on derry's part.
Good to see ye all love St Galls so much, considring how many of their stars did not committ to the county :o :o :o
41 and counting :P
Jez..thats older then me...thats along time to keep being beaten...Robert the Bruce springs to mind
Good one imtommygun ;D ;D ;D
your bile isnt worth reading Max, you wouldnt know if a football was blew up or stuffed!
DYCPS07
Tattoo time by the looks of it, never heard as much bumming and blowing over a shite Derry team who beat a piss poor Antrim performance.
I'll be having a major punt on Monaghan in the next round, a banker me thinks. ;)
Slim...good luck on the bet, did ye think that ye would not get slagging over yesterday. Inevitabl
Jesus Springfield are you ever going to see anything rationally where Eoin is involved? Just because he didnt get the frees you say he should have, he was justfied he sticking the head into his marker???
didnt i say i wasnt justifying the action.what i was merly saying was that bruno had a stinker of a game.as for calling the incident a headbutt, its abiot OTT. the two men had their heads pushed forward into each other and as the dungiven man moved his head back, eoin continued to push his forward.it wasnt a draw back of t6he head and a full on headbutt.
none the less, hel get two monthes.with him suspended and paddy injured, our championship hopes are up in smoke
just becasue you made the statement i am not trying to justifiy it, doesnt mean you didnt go on to try and justifiy it. what you did was like saying
no offence but you are one ugly c*nt.
Is Paddy out for long? i dont think you championship hope are over just yet
Quote from: Springfield on June 11, 2007, 04:56:02 PM
didnt i say i wasnt justifying the action.what i was merly saying was that bruno had a stinker of a game.as for calling the incident a headbutt, its abiot OTT. the two men had their heads pushed forward into each other and as the dungiven man moved his head back, eoin continued to push his forward.it wasnt a draw back of t6he head and a full on headbutt.
none the less, hel get two monthes.with him suspended and paddy injured, our championship hopes are up in smoke
He put his head into our player, not a fully blown head butt I agree, but he then attempted to throw another punch at him, going off the pitch another altercation ensued where he hit another Dungvien player, albeit rather pathetically. He made a real tit of himself and has probably fcuked up Glenullin's already slim championship chances.
Good piece by Heaney in the Irish News today.
Jody had to adapt after the performance in the league and as I was saying on Sunday alot of Derry's wides were forced rather than just plain bad shooting. The difference was indeed that Derry did have a couple of half forwards about to pop them over on occasion from long range and eventually Antrims lack of experience (and arguably skill) cost them.
Blanket defence used by the successful Ulster teams over the past number of years. Antrim try it, it works for a bit and they eventually fall. It will come with hard work and application.
Milltown Row - I await your scorn/scepticism with bated breath.
Quote from: Glensman on June 12, 2007, 08:49:22 AM
Good piece by Heaney in the Irish News today.
Jody had to adapt after the performance in the league and as I was saying on Sunday alot of Derry's wides were forced rather than just plain bad shooting. The difference was indeed that Derry did have a couple of half forwards about to pop them over on occasion from long range and eventually Antrims lack of experience (and arguably skill) cost them.
Blanket defence used by the successful Ulster teams over the past number of years. Antrim try it, it works for a bit and they eventually fall. It will come with hard work and application.
Milltown Row - I await your scorn/scepticism with bated breath.
bollocks. Antrim covered the area where any half decent forward would score 10 times out of 10 and left the wing and beyond the 45 free of any kind of defence. Derry kicked 10 wides in the first half and you're trying to tell me this was due to good defending by Antrim?? good defending wouldnt allow 10 shots! when Derry realised the amount of space on the wings the popped it out there and had a go- even threw it out beyond the 45 for Diver to drive one over the heads of Antrims 12 man defence and between the sticks!!
Only back in country this morning. We won anyway. Heard not too impressive but still in the semis. Anyone who was at the match go through player ratings. Missed monday supplement of the irish news. No one kept it for me. cheers!!
A fan is prob better than paddy heaney anyway!!
You can keep your bollocks Slim...when forced to shoot from distance you are more likely to miss than if you are shooting from nearer the net. Fact. Antrim did that by keeping Derry out of their 21/40 as best they could - giving 10 shots from distance is better than a few inside and giving goal chances.
Muldoon was just a different class and caught a couple of long balls and popped them over.
Gilligan didn't get too many opportunities as Loughrey was on him tight enough but when play loosened up in second half with Antrim chasing/wilting he did and he scored a few...therefore Antrim's tactic worked.
It was just quite a few things outside of the tactic that didn't work - when Antrim did get the ball and broke they often ran into traffic, some basic errors etc etc.
Also and again I agree with Paddy Heaney - aside from their goal which came from an error Derry did not have a sniff of a goal chance. Therefore what was a big problem previously was erradictaed. Again it was just the fact that there weren't too many outlets between the defence and the wee men up front.
If Antrim were allowed 17 players this would have all been solved...
Glensman
Sorry I don't know how anyone could argue that Antrim played the right tactics....if they were planning on losing but keeping the score down maybe but there was absolutely no chance of winning with them tactics....
It was absolutely hilarious watching players just turn their backs on the ball and sprint back to defence when the ball was lost...Derry players were allowed bring the ball from their own 21 yard line up to the Antrim half without anyone even getting close to make a tackle..
There were example of Antrim getting a free in midfield - they had 2 players in the Derry half being marked by 4 defenders and they had no-one running forward....
How were Antrim going to avoid running into traffic when everyone in the ground knew that they couldn't kick the ball forward as there were no forwards to kick the ball to!!!!
Quote from: Glensman on June 12, 2007, 12:18:47 PM
You can keep your bollocks Slim...when forced to shoot from distance you are more likely to miss than if you are shooting from nearer the net. Fact. Antrim did that by keeping Derry out of their 21/40 as best they could - giving 10 shots from distance is better than a few inside and giving goal chances.
Muldoon was just a different class and caught a couple of long balls and popped them over.
Gilligan didn't get too many opportunities as Loughrey was on him tight enough but when play loosened up in second half with Antrim chasing/wilting he did and he scored a few...therefore Antrim's tactic worked.
It was just quite a few things outside of the tactic that didn't work - when Antrim did get the ball and broke they often ran into traffic, some basic errors etc etc.
Explain the easy frees Gilligan missed in the first half then Einstein - too much pressure from Loughrey then too.
Antrims tactic worked?? holy f**k. You are obviously not the sharpest knife in the drawer Glensman- Antrim were beat convincingly by a very very poor Derry performance.
''giving 10 shots from distance is better....'' I'll stop you right there- giving any free shots from anywhere is the height of stupidity, maybe it'd be OK if they were playing Mitchels or someone of that calibre but a County side that had Enda Muldoon on it?! Get a grip man.
''when Antrim did get the ball and broke they often ran into traffic...''
when you have 13 men behind the ball it doesnt leave defenders much of an outlet when they do get hold of it- look at Tony Scullion in the 2nd half, a couple of driving runs up the field with absolutely nobody in front of him apart from Derry jerseys and 2 hidden Antrim ones covered by 4 defenders in CJ and Cunningham.
Loughrey? Loughrey was absolutely brutal man, were you at the game?!#
''Also and again I agree with Paddy Heaney - aside from their goal which came from an error Derry did not have a sniff of a goal chance. Therefore what was a big problem previously was erradictaed''
a 12 year old could have erradicated that problem-they'd just have done what Gormley did and brought all the players back in front of goal!!
I've listened to a lot of chat about the tactics and who played well/poor etc since Sunday but you're the 1st person to have came from this slant. You seem to have accepted that we aren't good enough and are willing to settle for that.
Slim you arent good enough and you should settle. and you calling Derry a very very very poor team doesnt make them one. Derry are at worst an average team maybe even just above average esp with Bradley playing.
Quote from: derrymad on June 12, 2007, 11:20:58 AM
Only back in country this morning. We won anyway. Heard not too impressive but still in the semis. Anyone who was at the match go through player ratings. Missed monday supplement of the irish news. No one kept it for me. cheers!!
A fan is prob better than paddy heaney anyway!!
Firstly, Irish News ratings:ANTRIM RATINGS
Sean McGreevy: Probably could share 20 per cent of the blame for Derry's goal. His short kick-out to Sean McVeigh was a bit risky and the Antrim full-back was dispossessed. His long
kick-outs were more effective. Didn't have a save to make. 6
Tony Scullion: The Cargin defender did a good job on Mark Lynch. For a brief period, he was released into the half-back line and broke forward with purpose before being pulled back to nullify Paddy Bradley. 6.5
Paul Doherty: Tracked Joe Diver for the majority of the game at wing-half, but the Derry man had too many openings at Antrim's goalposts for Doherty's liking. 5
Kevin O'Boyle: An encouraging debut for the Cargin defender. Kept Raymond Wilkinson quiet for most of the game. 6
Sean McVeigh: The Antrim full-back found Enda Muldoon's craftiness too much. He was also caught in possession which led to Derry's goal. 5
Gavin Bell: Saw off Barry McGoldrick's threat and was moved around Antrim's backline. Didn't really get into any attacking positions. 6
Justin Crozier: The 19-year-old Championship debutant broke forward from centre-back to great effect several times and showed he has a lot of quality. But didn't see the ball enough. 7
Michael McCann: A mixed bag for the highly-rated midfielder. Won a couple of high balls, but made some unforced errors. 6
Joe Quinn: Enjoyed some good and bad spells against Fergal Doherty. Strangely, dropped back in front of his defence at times, but didn't have the influence Antrim would have expected. 6
Aodhan Gallagher: Worked tirelessly and had reasonable spells on Paul Carton and Patsy Bradley. Had a sniff of the goalposts in the 48th minute, but scuffed his shot. 5
Kevin Niblock: An odd substitution by Jody Gormley. The St Gall's centre-forward was up for the fight and was giving Sean Marty Lockhart a run for his money. Effective from open play. 7
James Loughery: Expended a lot of energy by shuttling back to pick up Conleith Gilligan and cut out the hub of Derry's attack in the first half. Gilligan, though, had more influence in the second period. 5.5
Conor McGourty: A touch of class. The fearless teenager didn't see a lot of the ball, but still managed to pick off three smashing points from play. Antrim's best player by some distance. 8
Kevin Brady: Played a very defensive game and therefore didn't make an impression. Pushed further forward in the second half, but was surprisingly substituted when he might've pinched a three-pointer. 6
Patrick Cunningham: Ended the game with five points and did his bit for the cause. Reliable from frees and linked play well. 7
Subs
Eoin O'Neill: Didn't make the impression on Sean Marty Lockhart, but tried very hard. 5
Ciaran Close: Like for like with Kevin Brady making way. Looked lively, but didnt get a shot at the posts. 5
Paul Close: Not on long enough to be rated.
DERRY RATINGS
Barry Gillis: Had no saves to make. Claimed one very awkward high ball that dropped at cross-section of the crossbar and upright. 7
Michael McGoldrick: Had a tough baptism against CJ McGourty, who landed three points from play, although there wasn't much McGoldrick could have done on two of them. 5
Kevin McCloy: Initially it looked like Paddy Cunningham would have too much speed for McCloy, but he survived a couple of scares and held his opponent scoreless from play. 6
Gerard O'Kane: Was extremely prominent in the opening quarter when he made several strong runs from defence. Thereafter he got on with defending and did a sound job on Kevin Brady. 6
Paul Carton: Forced to retire after just half-an-hour. Guilty of one bad error when he lost possession, but otherwise was solid. 6
Sean Martin Lockhart: Had a few tricky moments against Kevin Niblock. Competent and efficient at centre-back, he would probably have preferred to mark with CJ McGourty. 6
Cathal McKeever: Assumed the role of spare defender when his opponent, James Loughrey dropped back into the Antrim defence. Provided cover for McCloy and McGoldrick and picked up a few stray passes. Distribution was good. 7
Fergal Doherty: Went through a phenomenal amount of work. Showed great example when he gave away possession with a bad pass, but then won the ball back for Derry after chasing, then robbing Michael McCann with a great tackle. 7
James Conway: The Ballinderry man won an inordinate amount of possession. He made driving runs, landed a couple of telling passes and caught his fair share of kick-outs. 8
Barry McGoldrick: Struggled to escape the shackles of the impressive Justin Crozier. Scored a good point in the 17th minute. 5
Conleith Gilligan: Had a poor first half in which he kicked four wides. Was transformed in the second half. Played a key role in setting up the goal and finished the game with an impressive tally of 0-5. 7
Joe Diver: Was a member of the quartet which included Doherty, Conway and Patsy Bradley that allowed Derry to dominate at midfield. Struck a great point in the seventh minute. 7
Raymond Wilkinson: Did well when setting up the goal for Mark Lynch. Tried hard but his shooting lacked accuracy and conviction. 5
Enda Muldoon: Star Man
In a game bereft of genuine quality, Muldoon was like a rose amongst thorns.
James Conway provided a towering display of power and industry, CJ McGourty struck three fine points, but Muldoon was just undiluted class.
Virtually every time he had the ball, something happened. He scored four points from play. He was also fouled for a number of scores. On one occasion he out-fielded three Antrim defenders who promptly fouled him and Gilligan converted.
With Paddy Bradley sitting on the sidelines, Derry needed a forward to win the game for them. Muldoon filled the breach with aplomb. 8.5
Picture: Jonathan Porter
Mark Lynch: Was guilty of a couple of wides. Got into the scoring groove when moved to wing-forward. Got the all-important goal. 6.5
Subs
Patsy Bradley: Replaced Paul Carton. Had a fine second half, particularly in the closing quarter when he collected lots of breaking ball. 7
Colin Devlin: Move and acts like a quality corner-forward. Just needs to start hitting the target. 6
Paddy Bradley: Not on long enough to be rated.
Liam Hinphey: Not on long enough to be rated.
Now Saffron Sam's ratingsANTRIM RATINGS
Sean McGreevy: Shamefully treated in the past by Culbert, showed commendable attitude in coming back. May have a backroom role to play, but it is time to blood young Kerr. 6
Tony Scullion: Looked fit, but unable to kick the back in the direction he intended. Wouldn't get near a full strength Antrim defence. 5
Paul Doherty: Certainly knocked his pan in and produced a committed performance, but has to be a central defender. 7
Kevin O'Boyle: Very quiet game (as did his opponent), unusual man-marking style. Has potential. 6
Sean McVeigh: Not a full back, was never a full back and was totally the wrong man to be asked to deal with the only attacking option Derry had. I don't blame him - I blame those who put him there and told him not to challenge under the high ball. 4
Gavin Bell: Not a county standard footballer, I don't blame him; I blame those who put him there. 6
Justin Crozier: Will be the mainstay of the Antrim defence for years to come if he doesn't get afflicted with Carginitis. 7
Michael McCann: Decent performance, but not just big or strong for inter-county midfield. Would be more at home at half-forward, but again one to build the team round. 7
Joe Quinn: Time's up for big Joe I'm afraid, but he's done his bit for Antrim through many lean years. 5
Aodhan Gallagher: See Gavin Bell. 4
Kevin Niblock: Seemed to be doing ok - surpirse change. 6
James Loughery: Not particularly noticeable, but hopefully will provide something in the future. 6
Conor McGourty: It must be extremely frustrating for such an exceptional talent to be surrounded by such mediocrity and to have such tactics employed by his own team. Will be the mainstay of the Antrim forward line for years if he doesn't get his brother Kevinitis. 9
Kevin Brady: Needed much more from the most experienced man in the forward line. 6
Patrick Cunningham: Decent game, scored a cracker from 55 yards. Will be a bit part of the Antrim forward line for years if he doesn't get Buchananitis. 7
Subs
Eoin O'Neill: Pointless substitution. 3
Ciaran Close: Strangely didn't wear his shirt before he came on, but got on just long enough to prove why he didn't start. 4
Paul Close: Not on long enough to be rated.
DERRY RATINGS
Barry Gillis: A liability for later in the summer. Uncomfortable under the high ball and kicks big looping kickouts making it extremely difficult for his team to win clean possession. 5
Michael McGoldrick: Tried hard against McGourty but too small. 5
Kevin McCloy: Very solid in the air, but could have been cleaned out for pace. 7
Gerard O'Kane: Very disappointing, good at solo running with the head down, but little else. 6
Paul Carton: An accident waiting to happen. Has neither the discipline or skill needed for championship football. 6
Sean Martin Lockhart: Didn't impress me as a chb, may be better sacrificing him to man mark the opposition dangerman. 6
Cathal McKeever: Looked the part, but wasn't overly tested. Better option than Hinphey. 7
Fergal Doherty: Horse of a game. Has nearly everything you would want as a midfielder. We were cleaned out there. 8
James Conway: See Fergal Doherty. 8
Barry McGoldrick: Lacked pace for the wing, more suited to chf - may struggle to get his place the next day. 5
Conleith Gilligan: Awful first half, missed several easy chances. Has never convinced me that he is capable of making the step up to county standard. Decent second half as those around him wilted in the sun. 5
Joe Diver: Big strong performance, prepared to throw his weight around. Harshly penalised for overcarrying twice. Excellent point, but came across as a bit of a loose cannon. Unfortunate to be substituted. 7
Raymond Wilkinson: Who? 4.
Enda Muldoon: Superb, radar like accuracy, but doesn't convince in the way that Kieran Donaghy does in that role. 9
Mark Lynch: Wasted standing in the corner for near an hour. Get him out to the half forward line or midfield. Scored one great point when moved out.
Subs
Patsy Bradley: Surprising introduction at half back, but more than justified this. Certainly worth a start the next day. Very unlucky to be behind Conway and Doherty in the pecking order. 7
Colin Devlin: Too small. 6
Paddy Bradley: Shouldn't have been brought on - very disappointing that Derry choose to do this.
Liam Hinphey: Not on long enough to be rated.
Look it's very simple we (Antrim) don't have the players that can match other teams in Ulster even Fermanagh for size, yes we can match them for skill but what was evident on Sunday was that we were smaller than all the Derry lads bar Wilkinson who makes up for it with speed, McCann in midfield is a big lad for Antrim but up against the Derry lads he looked average in height. We died in the second half so our fitness levels were poor as well.
Blanket defence only works if the team is super fit, play as a team, who look for the ball, and half forwards defending and attacking the whole game. Too many times on Sunday I saw lads standing still after they off loaded the ball, that's bull-shite.
Antrim were coming out of defence and there was no options for them. I don't want to harp back to when we won the Ulster club and semi final but, that was a major part of our game, support play, working the ball into the forward line, another big part of our game was the fitness, when an opposing player had the ball he was closed down by at least 3 players forcing errors or making him over carry the ball. The intensity that Naomh Gall put into those games I've yet to see at Antrim county level.
When Cargin beat us last year in Championship, they had it. Antrim need to develop a team spirit, very hard to do when players don't get on or are heading off every summer. But don't come on and say we forced Derry to play badly. When the game was 6 each at half time that's when Antrim should have put them on the back foot.
I was standing in the crowd with at least 6 players that played for the county last year. The lads have various reasons for not playing but I'd say Antrim need these lads to be playing or part of the panel for Antrim to be competitive
One of Antrim's tactics worked.
Making them where possible shoot from long range. The fact that we are otherwise limited, did not have the fitness/ability to get up and down the field when breaking out after winning the ball is outside of the fact that Derry didn't have one goal chance which was a clear weakness previously. When the tactic worked well it saw Antrim go in level at half time. It wasn't pretty but if Antrim had've got a couple of scores here and there in the second half at crucial times and not given away a silly ball for the goal things might have been different.
And you get a grip Slim...in case you didn't notice Muldoon was full forward (largely playing inside the 21 or thereabouts)...and the points he scored were largely where (as a super player) he caught the ball long and stuck it over. The swarm defence doesn't work where there a good long high ball to a player of his calibre. Antrim just don't have someone that could match him. Not the fault of the Antrim players (though McVeigh should have been off him earlier) as he is a class act.
In a Gaelic match you get shots...people get chances ... in defence its about minmising potential for score. Antrim did that well enough first half. They just don't have, at this stage the ability to break out and score themselves.
Antrim's tactics were negative for sure Dubsforsam but they had/have to start somewhere. We don't all have a free running Alan Brogan or someone with the engine of Ciaran Whelan/Shane Ryan.
Saffronsam I never said I was Einstein...Gilligan missing frees had nothing to do with Loughrey. Was there any point in your post?
I am not trying to paint a beautiful picture of what went on on Sunday but trying to draw something from it. We as a county lose, blame people, procrastinate, then the manager is forced out and someone tries something different. Viscious circle.
With Sean Kelly in as a wing back, Kevin McGourty instead of Joe Quinn, Michael Magill as a bigger target man up front...there is hope.
Maybe I am a dreamer but fcuk it if I want to I can and no one can stop me!
Off to collect my toys from outside the pram.
I agree with you entirely Milltown Row.
Hope it has not come across that I say that we made Derry play badly. I just think that Antrim stiffled them for a bit anyway. Better than getting steamrolled in my book.
Couldn't argue too much with your ratings SS2 but to say he doesn't convince like Kieran Donaghy in that rule is ludicrous. When fit, Enda Muldoon is better than DOnaghy in that role simply because he can do everything Donaghy does but he'll kick you 4 or 5 points from play as well. As shown on countless occasions like the goal in the AISF against Galway 2001 and in 2005 against Westmeath. Remember that last year was Donaghy's rookie season.
As for the rest I would wholeheartedly agree, although I think that while Gilligan has yet to prove himself at this level, his club form shows he is capable of doing it and I hope that his 2nd half performance will help spur him on to greater things further on in the year.
Judging from those ratings I would say that our FB line has now become our weak link in the team. McCLoy is susceptible to pace, GO'K isn't a corner back and I think it's too soon for McGoldrick to make the step up to this level. I think the sooner we get McGuckin back and move Lockhart in there the better we will be.
In an ideal world I would pick the following Derry team for the next day!
Gillis - Hasn't done anything to suggest he shouldn't start.
McGuckin - Will he be available for the next match? I hope so because we are struggling here. If not I think McEldowney should get a run out here the next day as he couldn't be any worse than McGoldrick.
McCloy - Commanding on the edge of the square but will struggle with pace if McGuckin and Lockhart aren't around.
Lockhart - Has to be in here to do a man to man job on Freeman.
GO'K - The man is a half back... end of.
Patsy Bradley - Has the presence and the strength, distribution may be a problem but I think he's worth a go.
McKeever - Not sure about him yet but he is a good ball carrier and I've heard good things about him.
Doc & Conway - Blossoming into a great partnership... who'd have thought it when these 2 were minors!!!
Lynch - Good long range scorer and hasn't the pace for the inside, also an option for kickouts as well, he has to be played here.
Gilligan - Great distributor and playmaker, usually a reliable long range point taker as well. Let's hope his 2nd half form stays.
Diver - A tower of strength against Antrim although I have to disagree with SS2, that one handed bounce that takes him 6 steps is definitely a foul on the ball. Apart from that he was immense and hopefully does the same against Monaghan.
P Bradley - (Remember this is an 'ideal' team) No question
Muldoon - When fit he's a class act!
E Bradley - Given his recent form for Glenullin he has to be getting a game I just hope that whatever is going on between him and Crozier can get resolved.
I know that there is a strong possibility that McGuckin and the 2 Bradleys will be unavailable but I think that the team I've named above is without question the best we could put out and I hope we can see it in the c'ship this year becasue it is a team that would be very difficult to beat!
Glensman
Why does the start have to be with a totally negative style of football?????
What would be wrong with your forwards actually marking the backs when they have the ball so that they can't give pressure free passes???
Why didn't they man up at midfield also to stop players having 15 yards of space to pick a pass?
Why were defenders just allowed to stroll around all day without having anyone to mark...its marking a forward that should be concentrating a defender not being part of 2 spare men at the back...
How about getting players fit enough to run for 70 mins or if not have plans in place to replace them after 40/50 mins???
How about training defenders to actually defend 1 on 1....surely making them go one on with with either of your corner forwards in training would teach them that???
how about if your full back can't cope in the air then don't let the opposition have all the time in the world to hit accurate high balls?? pressure them...
Quote from: Glensman on June 12, 2007, 03:39:44 PM
I agree with you entirely Milltown Row.
Hope it has not come across that I say that we made Derry play badly. I just think that Antrim stiffled them for a bit anyway. Better than getting steamrolled in my book.
For f**k sake man, cant you read that? better than getting steamrolled, thats embarrassing. and if you look at the match again you can see that for the last 20 mins it was a training game for Derry, therefore it was a quare oul steamrolling- regardless if there was 6 or 60 points in it!
what club are you from? and please, whatever you do- don't coach any young lads at your club if you're going to promote this blanket defence shite. Play the game the way it should be played and the way in which its most enjoyable for both those watching and playing. I know for as long as i'll be involved in any form of coaching, this type of shite wont be on the agenda!
You seem to think Antrim can be sort of proud of their performance- maybe the players can, but not the management for sending them out to play like that. If we'd gone man for man in the proper shape of a team and lost by 6 we could say, well, we gave it a good go. But we didn't, we played negatively and were deservedly thumped.
bringing back 2 forwards into the backline infront of the full Forward line is madness.
Both Cavan (in the replay) and Monaghan dropped ONE player in front of Benny Coulter against Down and it was effective.
Id question how much training was done in implementing this tactic.
One Particular ball which came into Muldoon in the first half,where despite there being 3/4 Antrim players around he had a relatively easy scoring chance which he took.
The Two extra players were totally out of position and didnt seem to know where they were supposed to be covering.
Thats nothing but bad coaching in my opinion.
I believe Slim to be correct in that if Antrim had to have went out man for man against Derry instead of using these ridiculous tactics,then they would have been alot closer to Derry in the end than 6 points.
I'll quit when I am well...behind.
I just try to look for positives (maybe even in negatives). Its hard going into a long summer of football without looking forward to your county in action. Which pretty much counts for every summer.
I think there is merit in some of the things that Antrim did on Sunday (and I know for a fact that there wasn't much time put into the system...it was adopted relatively recently). And there are certainly very big failings.
For my whole life I have argued against friends that it should be county first. I am starting to waiver.
PS I definitely think Muldoon is as good if not better than Donaghy.
For anyone to actually compare Enda Muldoon to Kieran Donaghy, to me is ridiculous!! Granted Donaghy is a good fielder of the ball, Muldoon oozes footballing abiliity. To me anyone who has a football brain could clearly see this.
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2007, 03:49:49 PM
Couldn't argue too much with your ratings SS2 but to say he doesn't convince like Kieran Donaghy in that rule is ludicrous. When fit, Enda Muldoon is better than DOnaghy in that role simply because he can do everything Donaghy does but he'll kick you 4 or 5 points from play as well. As shown on countless occasions like the goal in the AISF against Galway 2001 and in 2005 against Westmeath. Remember that last year was Donaghy's rookie season.
Quote from: Glensman on June 12, 2007, 09:34:56 PM
PS I definitely think Muldoon is as good if not better than Donaghy.
Quote from: Oak Leafer on June 12, 2007, 10:04:01 PM
For anyone to actually compare Enda Muldoon to Kieran Donaghy, to me is ridiculous!! Granted Donaghy is a good fielder of the ball, Muldoon oozes footballing abiliity. To me anyone who has a football brain could clearly see this.
I speak as someone who has watched Muldoon since minor (I was at the All-Ireland final in '95) and as someone whose great-grandmother was born in Keenaught, so there is no anti-Derry bias here. Muldoon has over the years produced some superb match-winning performances and there is no doubt that he is a great fielder and an exceptionally accurate kicker of the ball. However I feel Sunday proved my point. Whilst he had a field day against a player who had never played that position before, the number of times he has failed to produce against real full backs (Lawn, Bellew, Paddy Campbell, Tony Convery etc.) is quite high. No-one should doubt his natural ability, but there is more to being a great footballer. For example he doesn't have the strength to break tackles or the pace to break free from a challenge.
As always, this board will be full of different opinions. If I had to pick between the two to play forward for Antrim I would go with Kieran Donaghy. If I was a Derry man faced with the same choice I would still pick Donaghy.
Might start a poll.
Quote from: screenexile on June 12, 2007, 03:49:49 PM
Diver - A tower of strength against Antrim although I have to disagree with SS2, that one handed bounce that takes him 6 steps is definitely a foul on the ball. Apart from that he was immense and hopefully does the same against Monaghan.
I thought the decisions were harsh, rather than wrong.
Quotenumber of times he has failed to produce against real full backs (Lawn, Bellew, Paddy Campbell, Tony Convery etc.) is quite high.
SS2.... Tony Convery....what an absolute joke...talk about lack of power and pace...well Covery has them all
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on June 13, 2007, 08:48:16 AM
Quotenumber of times he has failed to produce against real full backs (Lawn, Bellew, Paddy Campbell, Tony Convery etc.) is quite high.
SS2.... Tony Convery....what an absolute joke...talk about lack of power and pace...well Covery has them all
Yet comfortably held Muldoon the last time he marked him.
Max, I have seen Tony Convery man mark Muldoon on three occasions, and more than broke level each time. I accept big Enda is the real deal, and Ive seen more than my share of his scoring ability, but I`d say Enda would have enormous respect for Tony Convery. ( a first cousin of big joe diver)
Couldnt let you away with ridiculing the ability of one of footballs gentlemen! Highly respected by all in the game.
Irish News today P Cunningham says he's not stateside???
JJ ...what I'm saying is to put him in the same bracket as Lawn, Bellew is the real joke
Quote from: Maximus Marillius on June 13, 2007, 10:52:01 AM
JJ ...what I'm saying is to put him in the same bracket as Lawn, Bellew is the real joke
Have to agree there. Convery is a decent player but no where near the calibre of the men he has been compared to.
Have to agree with you there Loughshore Lad - Bellew, Campbell etc are in a different league - simple as that.
but I`d say Enda would have enormous respect for Tony Convery. ( a first cousin of big joe diver)
??? ??? ::)
so mcdoooowell, is big enda scared of joe diver or what da feck has that got to do with anything!!
i agree with previous posters, in that there is no comparison betwween big enda and thon tube donaghy.
donaghy is a basketball player with great hands no doubt about it.
but big enda is an outstanding all round footballer with a great footballing brain.
he makes every skill look and seem so easy.