Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

Started by Angelo, October 22, 2020, 10:36:07 AM

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Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

Yes
122 (71.8%)
No
48 (28.2%)

Total Members Voted: 170

Chief

Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:33:55 PM
Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 08:55:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 22, 2020, 07:22:09 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 22, 2020, 07:18:07 PM
For a vaccine to be effective at stopping community transmission , it'll have to be taken by the majority of the population , no ?

I'm alright though Jack, I'm not in an at-risk demographic

Maybe do some research on vaccines in our history and some of the long term health problems they can be attributed to.

I'll take my chances without it. If I catch the virus I will look after myself and following the quarantine procedures.

Do you get the flu vaccine annually?

Question - if your going to "take your chances", will you refuse hospital treatment if things get serious?

If you change your mind
Be the first in line
The vaccine is free
Take a chance on me
If you need me, let me know
Gonna be around
Covid has no place to go
When I come to town

If you're all alone
Up there in Tyrone
Honey, I'll be free
Take a chance on me
Gonna do my very best
And it ain't no lie
If you put me to the test
I won't let you die
Take a chance on me
That's all I ask of you, honey
Take a chance on me
Go and get vaccined
Stop Covid nineteen

Jesus wept...

sid waddell

Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
If a vaccine is approved by the EU I'll be taking it.

Anybody with half a brain will do likewise.

You have to wonder how it is even a debate
Three words: Right wing propaganda

Plenty of wing nuts on the left advocating for no vaccines too, take that crap to the US politics thread.
The anti-vaccine ideology is overwhelmingly pushed by those with right-wing "libertarian" sympathies

Anti-vaccine ideology has deeply infected mainstream right-wing politics and media

There is no such similar problem on the broad left

Right-wing propaganda and disinformation is one of the central problems of our time, it is a virulent cancer

Again, there is no such similar problem on the broad left

Look at the New Zealand election

Why did that country overwhelmingly opt for sensible social democratic government rather than the screaming yahoos that rule the roost in the US, UK and increasingly Australia?

Because Murdoch media is not a factor

We are far from perfect in this country but Murdoch media is not a factor here either - unfortunately we do have some other outlets and minor demagogues here to take up the slack of disinformation and we are also quite influenced by what's happening in the UK and US

Plenty on the left too.
Heres governor of Vermont Democratic candidate David Zuckerman. His voting history makes for interesting reading....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/21/anti-vaccine-coronavirus-137446
You can scour the internet for individuals if you like in an effort to create a false equivalence but isolated individuals and cranks do not make a systemic problem

Science denial and fact rejection are now intrinsic parts of the international right-wing

That is very far from the case on the broad left

False equivalence is also a systemic right-wing problem

I didnt have to scour. Hes on the ballot in Vermont in November. He's a left wing democrat. And he's not alone.

San Francisco kids are well below the required vaccinated level (95%) for herd immunity. San Fran of course. Being a city that *checks notes*  Hillary won 84.5% of the vote in 2016.

There are loons in all political walks of life.
But again, there are a hell of a lot more in right-wing politics

Science denial, fact rejection and a fantasy world of la la is the defining characteristic of right-wing politics

It's a freak show

Of course as a Trump supporter you would deny this because you are one of the people who have been brainwashed

Noam Chomsky quite rightly says the Republican party is the most dangerous organisation in the world - in human history

Even the Nazis didn't plan to incinerate the planet

RedHand88

Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
If a vaccine is approved by the EU I'll be taking it.

Anybody with half a brain will do likewise.

You have to wonder how it is even a debate
Three words: Right wing propaganda

Plenty of wing nuts on the left advocating for no vaccines too, take that crap to the US politics thread.
The anti-vaccine ideology is overwhelmingly pushed by those with right-wing "libertarian" sympathies

Anti-vaccine ideology has deeply infected mainstream right-wing politics and media

There is no such similar problem on the broad left

Right-wing propaganda and disinformation is one of the central problems of our time, it is a virulent cancer

Again, there is no such similar problem on the broad left

Look at the New Zealand election

Why did that country overwhelmingly opt for sensible social democratic government rather than the screaming yahoos that rule the roost in the US, UK and increasingly Australia?

Because Murdoch media is not a factor

We are far from perfect in this country but Murdoch media is not a factor here either - unfortunately we do have some other outlets and minor demagogues here to take up the slack of disinformation and we are also quite influenced by what's happening in the UK and US

Plenty on the left too.
Heres governor of Vermont Democratic candidate David Zuckerman. His voting history makes for interesting reading....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/21/anti-vaccine-coronavirus-137446
You can scour the internet for individuals if you like in an effort to create a false equivalence but isolated individuals and cranks do not make a systemic problem

Science denial and fact rejection are now intrinsic parts of the international right-wing

That is very far from the case on the broad left

False equivalence is also a systemic right-wing problem

I didnt have to scour. Hes on the ballot in Vermont in November. He's a left wing democrat. And he's not alone.

San Francisco kids are well below the required vaccinated level (95%) for herd immunity. San Fran of course. Being a city that *checks notes*  Hillary won 84.5% of the vote in 2016.

There are loons in all political walks of life.
But again, there are a hell of a lot more in right-wing politics

Science denial, fact rejection and a fantasy world of la la is the defining characteristic of right-wing politics

It's a freak show

Of course as a Trump supporter you would deny this because you are one of the people who have been brainwashed

Noam Chomsky quite rightly says the Republican party is the most dangerous organisation in the world - in human history

Even the Nazis didn't plan to incinerate the planet

I'm not a Trump supporter. I just have my reservations with the modern Democrat party.

sid waddell

Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 10:51:05 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 10:37:54 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 10:22:29 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 08:11:45 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 07:55:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on October 22, 2020, 05:49:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on October 22, 2020, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 04:44:21 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 22, 2020, 04:38:07 PM
If a vaccine is approved by the EU I'll be taking it.

Anybody with half a brain will do likewise.

You have to wonder how it is even a debate
Three words: Right wing propaganda

Plenty of wing nuts on the left advocating for no vaccines too, take that crap to the US politics thread.
The anti-vaccine ideology is overwhelmingly pushed by those with right-wing "libertarian" sympathies

Anti-vaccine ideology has deeply infected mainstream right-wing politics and media

There is no such similar problem on the broad left

Right-wing propaganda and disinformation is one of the central problems of our time, it is a virulent cancer

Again, there is no such similar problem on the broad left

Look at the New Zealand election

Why did that country overwhelmingly opt for sensible social democratic government rather than the screaming yahoos that rule the roost in the US, UK and increasingly Australia?

Because Murdoch media is not a factor

We are far from perfect in this country but Murdoch media is not a factor here either - unfortunately we do have some other outlets and minor demagogues here to take up the slack of disinformation and we are also quite influenced by what's happening in the UK and US

Plenty on the left too.
Heres governor of Vermont Democratic candidate David Zuckerman. His voting history makes for interesting reading....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/21/anti-vaccine-coronavirus-137446
You can scour the internet for individuals if you like in an effort to create a false equivalence but isolated individuals and cranks do not make a systemic problem

Science denial and fact rejection are now intrinsic parts of the international right-wing

That is very far from the case on the broad left

False equivalence is also a systemic right-wing problem

I didnt have to scour. Hes on the ballot in Vermont in November. He's a left wing democrat. And he's not alone.

San Francisco kids are well below the required vaccinated level (95%) for herd immunity. San Fran of course. Being a city that *checks notes*  Hillary won 84.5% of the vote in 2016.

There are loons in all political walks of life.
But again, there are a hell of a lot more in right-wing politics

Science denial, fact rejection and a fantasy world of la la is the defining characteristic of right-wing politics

It's a freak show

Of course as a Trump supporter you would deny this because you are one of the people who have been brainwashed

Noam Chomsky quite rightly says the Republican party is the most dangerous organisation in the world - in human history

Even the Nazis didn't plan to incinerate the planet

I'm not a Trump supporter. I just have my reservations with the modern Democrat party.
A lot of people say that

We had one guy here recently who kept insisting he wasn't a Trump supporter but has now admitted to voting for them

It's why this is very far from a done deal for Biden

I don't think there's a person supporting the Democrats who doesn't have reservations about them for different reasons

That's a function of them being a broad church party, a church so broad that it is the party of basically anybody in US politics who isn't crazy

Seaney

Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
The perverse logic of this is incredible but not unsurprising

Covid - The Disease
Don't know the long term consequences
Unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely aid the spread of the disease if I get it, potentially causing the death of others
"HAPPY ENOUGH WITH THAT, CARRY ON REGARDLESS, BRING IT ON"

Covid - The Vaccine
Don't know the long term consequences
VERY unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely help stop the spread of the disease, potentially saving the lives of others
"FCUK THAT SHIT, DON'T WANT IT ANYWHERE NEAR ME"

How, in the name of sweet fcuk does anyone with a brain arrive at this kind of decision?

You use words like likely and potentially, what if the vaccine was likely, potentially very much the cause of deaths, illness or deformities in the future, are those more acceptable than whatever number of deaths from covid when you subtract the 28 day lag anomaly.

I do use those words.  There's no point in using absolutisms when the reality is that we're not certain.

The "what if" game is a ridiculous one.

What if Covid was the cause of "deaths, illness or deformities in the future?"

See how easy this is?

And what if it weren't and a vaccine with unknown health implications was?

Seaney

Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 08:55:59 PM
Quote from: Angelo on October 22, 2020, 07:32:01 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on October 22, 2020, 07:22:09 PM
Quote from: ballinaman on October 22, 2020, 07:18:07 PM
For a vaccine to be effective at stopping community transmission , it'll have to be taken by the majority of the population , no ?

I'm alright though Jack, I'm not in an at-risk demographic

Maybe do some research on vaccines in our history and some of the long term health problems they can be attributed to.

I'll take my chances without it. If I catch the virus I will look after myself and following the quarantine procedures.

Do you get the flu vaccine annually?

Question - if your going to "take your chances", will you refuse hospital treatment if things get serious?

Why would one, I have contributed all my life to the NHS through my taxes, why would one refuse hospital treatment, what a ridiculous statement. 

Franko

Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
The perverse logic of this is incredible but not unsurprising

Covid - The Disease
Don't know the long term consequences
Unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely aid the spread of the disease if I get it, potentially causing the death of others
"HAPPY ENOUGH WITH THAT, CARRY ON REGARDLESS, BRING IT ON"

Covid - The Vaccine
Don't know the long term consequences
VERY unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely help stop the spread of the disease, potentially saving the lives of others
"FCUK THAT SHIT, DON'T WANT IT ANYWHERE NEAR ME"

How, in the name of sweet fcuk does anyone with a brain arrive at this kind of decision?

You use words like likely and potentially, what if the vaccine was likely, potentially very much the cause of deaths, illness or deformities in the future, are those more acceptable than whatever number of deaths from covid when you subtract the 28 day lag anomaly.

I do use those words.  There's no point in using absolutisms when the reality is that we're not certain.

The "what if" game is a ridiculous one.

What if Covid was the cause of "deaths, illness or deformities in the future?"

See how easy this is?

And what if it weren't and a vaccine with unknown health implications was?

Ah FFS.

Seaney

Quote from: Chief on October 22, 2020, 09:57:55 PM


You didn't answer the question, presumably because your answer would expose your hypocrisy.

And to cover your backside your trying to deflect attention back onto me- juvenile enough approach to a debate but that what you get from the anti vac brigade as the actual substance of their argument is pathetic.

My position is clear, I would take the vaccine and hopefully that would hopefully prevent illness. If however I still got sick for some unlikely reason, including an adverse reaction to the vaccine, and needed treatment I would of course accept hospital care.

You see unlike you antivac clowns I always listen to qualified medical experts, not quacks or yahoo's that I find on the internet, or unqualified gobshites from up the road.

There is a running theme here - ask loads of questions but if someone else asks questions they are somehow being disingenuous, I have been called an angry man twice now yet the vitriol being hurled to those especially Angelo who disagreed with the narrative is unreal.

Seaney

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:40:57 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
The perverse logic of this is incredible but not unsurprising

Covid - The Disease
Don't know the long term consequences
Unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely aid the spread of the disease if I get it, potentially causing the death of others
"HAPPY ENOUGH WITH THAT, CARRY ON REGARDLESS, BRING IT ON"

Covid - The Vaccine
Don't know the long term consequences
VERY unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely help stop the spread of the disease, potentially saving the lives of others
"FCUK THAT SHIT, DON'T WANT IT ANYWHERE NEAR ME"

How, in the name of sweet fcuk does anyone with a brain arrive at this kind of decision?

You use words like likely and potentially, what if the vaccine was likely, potentially very much the cause of deaths, illness or deformities in the future, are those more acceptable than whatever number of deaths from covid when you subtract the 28 day lag anomaly.

I do use those words.  There's no point in using absolutisms when the reality is that we're not certain.

The "what if" game is a ridiculous one.

What if Covid was the cause of "deaths, illness or deformities in the future?"

See how easy this is?

And what if it weren't and a vaccine with unknown health implications was?

Ah FFS.

Ah bless does the game not work when you aren't winning!

Franko

Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:47:13 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:40:57 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:35:28 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: Seaney on October 22, 2020, 06:37:52 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 22, 2020, 06:00:45 PM
The perverse logic of this is incredible but not unsurprising

Covid - The Disease
Don't know the long term consequences
Unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely aid the spread of the disease if I get it, potentially causing the death of others
"HAPPY ENOUGH WITH THAT, CARRY ON REGARDLESS, BRING IT ON"

Covid - The Vaccine
Don't know the long term consequences
VERY unlikely to kill me in the short term
Will most likely help stop the spread of the disease, potentially saving the lives of others
"FCUK THAT SHIT, DON'T WANT IT ANYWHERE NEAR ME"

How, in the name of sweet fcuk does anyone with a brain arrive at this kind of decision?

You use words like likely and potentially, what if the vaccine was likely, potentially very much the cause of deaths, illness or deformities in the future, are those more acceptable than whatever number of deaths from covid when you subtract the 28 day lag anomaly.

I do use those words.  There's no point in using absolutisms when the reality is that we're not certain.

The "what if" game is a ridiculous one.

What if Covid was the cause of "deaths, illness or deformities in the future?"

See how easy this is?

And what if it weren't and a vaccine with unknown health implications was?

Ah FFS.

Ah bless does the game not work when you aren't winning!

This is depressing.

And what if it weren't and a disease with unknown health implications was?

Seaney

And therein lies the conundrum, so what totally berate folk who are trying to weigh up the options and make an informed choice with the information available, or do you just like name calling?

Franko

Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:53:26 AM
And therein lies the conundrum, so what totally berate folk who are trying to weigh up the options and make an informed choice with the information available, or do you just like name calling?

If it really is a 50:50 shot, why not pick the option that has the potential to save lives, over the one which has been proven worldwide over the past 10 months to aid the spread of a disease which kills people?

Seaney

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:53:26 AM
And therein lies the conundrum, so what totally berate folk who are trying to weigh up the options and make an informed choice with the information available, or do you just like name calling?

If it really is a 50:50 shot, why not pick the option that has the potential to save lives, over the one which has been proven worldwide over the past 10 months to aid the spread of a disease which kills people?

Alternatively you could look at it as why not resist the option which may impact the health of oneself and ones family in years to come, whilst continuing to practice the fundamental rules of washing hands often and for 30 seconds, wear masks in indoor settings and practice social distancing?  From what I gather they are going to give the vaccine to the vulnerable first, so if these have current underlying health conditions or are near their end of life, if they get the vaccine and die within 28 days have they died from the vaccine?

Franko

Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:53:26 AM
And therein lies the conundrum, so what totally berate folk who are trying to weigh up the options and make an informed choice with the information available, or do you just like name calling?

If it really is a 50:50 shot, why not pick the option that has the potential to save lives, over the one which has been proven worldwide over the past 10 months to aid the spread of a disease which kills people?

Alternatively you could look at it as why not resist the option which may impact the health of oneself and ones family in years to come, whilst continuing to practice the fundamental rules of washing hands often and for 30 seconds, wear masks in indoor settings and practice social distancing?  From what I gather they are going to give the vaccine to the vulnerable first, so if these have current underlying health conditions or are near their end of life, if they get the vaccine and die within 28 days have they died from the vaccine?

You ignored the question.

The masks and social distancing is working well at the minute across the world.

They will have died from whatever it is that killed them.

Seaney

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 09:03:17 AM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2020, 08:55:55 AM
Quote from: Seaney on October 23, 2020, 08:53:26 AM
And therein lies the conundrum, so what totally berate folk who are trying to weigh up the options and make an informed choice with the information available, or do you just like name calling?

If it really is a 50:50 shot, why not pick the option that has the potential to save lives, over the one which has been proven worldwide over the past 10 months to aid the spread of a disease which kills people?

Alternatively you could look at it as why not resist the option which may impact the health of oneself and ones family in years to come, whilst continuing to practice the fundamental rules of washing hands often and for 30 seconds, wear masks in indoor settings and practice social distancing?  From what I gather they are going to give the vaccine to the vulnerable first, so if these have current underlying health conditions or are near their end of life, if they get the vaccine and die within 28 days have they died from the vaccine?

You ignored the question.

The masks and social distancing is working well at the minute across the world.

They will have died from whatever it is that killed them.

I give an alternative, if you are tested positive for covid and get hit but a bus 28 days later you are a registered covid death.