Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 238379 times)

general_lee

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3420 on: June 15, 2021, 10:59:11 PM »
Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

God knows.

They absolutely should appoint and move on.

SF should not block appointments. The precedent would be extremely dangerous and do nobody any good.

If ILA is the point of principle then do the work on an ILA and bring it forward. There is no point of principle grandstanding that SF might want to do that they couldnít do down the line.

DUP should do the proper committee work on whatever draft comes forward.

Iíd say DUP would be bucked in any near term election. The longer term outlook would only be moderately better.

Any election will be about the protocol. The biggest issue will be sabre rattling on the protocol and how that shakes down the unionist votes. Not sure there would be much change in the nationalist vote other than if a few can see that Alliance have a chance of winning seats that wouldnít in the past then there might be a few first time Alliance voters from the nationalist ranks
I would 100% vote for AP in Upper Bann if it meant ousting Carla Lockhart

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3421 on: June 16, 2021, 11:36:32 AM »
Do our NI posters think SF/DUP will come to an agreement in the next week or will the Assembly collapse again?

God knows.

They absolutely should appoint and move on.

SF should not block appointments. The precedent would be extremely dangerous and do nobody any good.

If ILA is the point of principle then do the work on an ILA and bring it forward. There is no point of principle grandstanding that SF might want to do that they couldnít do down the line.

DUP should do the proper committee work on whatever draft comes forward.

Iíd say DUP would be bucked in any near term election. The longer term outlook would only be moderately better.

Any election will be about the protocol. The biggest issue will be sabre rattling on the protocol and how that shakes down the unionist votes. Not sure there would be much change in the nationalist vote other than if a few can see that Alliance have a chance of winning seats that wouldnít in the past then there might be a few first time Alliance voters from the nationalist ranks
I would 100% vote for AP in Upper Bann if it meant ousting Carla Lockhart
Definitely think that will feature.

But also donít rule out the fact that in a lot of constituencies AP might be the party of first choice for some individuals but they didnít think AP could get elected. That is beginning to change

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3422 on: June 16, 2021, 12:50:37 PM »
And right on cue the day after Leo talks about a new United Ireland  Beattie says now is not the right time to be talking about it.
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93-DY-SAM

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3423 on: June 16, 2021, 02:45:14 PM »
And right on cue the day after Leo talks about a new United Ireland  Beattie says now is not the right time to be talking about it.

There will never be a right time for Unionists to talk about it. Similar to a child sticking their fingers in their ears not wanting to listen to what is going on around them only for everyone else to have moved on. Then they'll cry they were not involved.

 

smelmoth

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3424 on: June 16, 2021, 03:05:15 PM »
Beattie et al will run from the debate for as long as they can. Nothing surprising there.

There will come a time when they will change their mind or there will come a time when they are irrelevant.

The point when they change their mind is when wider elections show a majority of seats won by nationalists. That is when the SoS starts to come under pressure and is the last point that political unionism could come to the table. I donít see political unionism coming to the table until it has to. That is a failing of political unionism.

The point where political unionism becomes irrelevant (on this issue) is when a significant proportion of soft unionists or potential unionists vote for parties that do engage in the discussion - principally Alliance.

yellowcard

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3425 on: June 16, 2021, 03:18:55 PM »
Varadkar didn't really say anything new but we all know how Unionists are frantically searching for an Irish/EU bogeyman so that they can redirect any anger away from their own politicians and the British government. It's an age old tactic of theirs. They will shortly be printing off effigies of Varadkar, Coveney and Van der Leyen as we speak in preparation for their annual hate fest Bonfire day out. And I'm only half joking!

Could we even see a future merger between the Alliance Party and FG? It would seem to me like the most natural fit. Due to the nature of society in the north and it's dysfunctional economy which is entirely dependant on subvention grants, I have no idea where the Alliance Party stand on the left-right divide though.   

Armagh18

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3426 on: June 16, 2021, 04:58:33 PM »
Varadkar didn't really say anything new but we all know how Unionists are frantically searching for an Irish/EU bogeyman so that they can redirect any anger away from their own politicians and the British government. It's an age old tactic of theirs. They will shortly be printing off effigies of Varadkar, Coveney and Van der Leyen as we speak in preparation for their annual hate fest Bonfire day out. And I'm only half joking!

Could we even see a future merger between the Alliance Party and FG? It would seem to me like the most natural fit. Due to the nature of society in the north and it's dysfunctional economy which is entirely dependant on subvention grants, I have no idea where the Alliance Party stand on the left-right divide though.   
Alliance arenít great but Jaysus theyíre a step above those FG twats surely?

yellowcard

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3427 on: June 16, 2021, 05:32:28 PM »
Varadkar didn't really say anything new but we all know how Unionists are frantically searching for an Irish/EU bogeyman so that they can redirect any anger away from their own politicians and the British government. It's an age old tactic of theirs. They will shortly be printing off effigies of Varadkar, Coveney and Van der Leyen as we speak in preparation for their annual hate fest Bonfire day out. And I'm only half joking!

Could we even see a future merger between the Alliance Party and FG? It would seem to me like the most natural fit. Due to the nature of society in the north and it's dysfunctional economy which is entirely dependant on subvention grants, I have no idea where the Alliance Party stand on the left-right divide though.   
Alliance arenít great but Jaysus theyíre a step above those FG twats surely?

What does 'not great' even mean in a northern political context where most things are seen through an us and them lense and where the economy functions on cuckoo economics in the form of a UK subvention grant. None of the political parties have to set budgets in terms of raising taxes and allocating spending as would occur in any normally functioning society. So we don't know where Alliance stand on the economy. They are attracting younger more progressive voters from both sides of the divide and I think that it is possible that FG would be looking at how they could attract a portion of the 1.8 million people should unity occur. They could be potentially looking towards targeting those middle ground voters. 

Lets be honest, FG of all the political parties in the south, have never shown much interest in the north. They can see the winds of change and are showing more interest in it simply because it is politically expedient to do so, not out of any great long held aspiration for Irish unity. FF, the once labelled Republican Party in the south, now look doomed longer term as they get swallowed up by both FG and SF.   

weareros

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3428 on: June 16, 2021, 09:04:28 PM »

Lets be honest, FG of all the political parties in the south, have never shown much interest in the north. They can see the winds of change and are showing more interest in it simply because it is politically expedient to do so, not out of any great long held aspiration for Irish unity. FF, the once labelled Republican Party in the south, now look doomed longer term as they get swallowed up by both FG and SF.   

Questionable if that is true for Varadkar and Coveney. They are not John Brutonís FG. The Protocol is close to creating an economic UI and has essentially realigned the Northís economy in the direction of Dublin and Brussels. It also saved the North from the worst excesses of Brexit. FG for all their other ills were probably the only party that could have pulled this off due to being politically aligned with all the main players in Europe - as Tusk, Barnier and Ursula all belong to EPP. And all held and continue to hold the line, despite all the abuse from Tory press. Surprised the lack of credit here and sometimes feels like opinion in south is formed by right wing English press as thereís a line of thought now that the duo messed up big time with the Protocol. But thereís also a strand of Nationalism and Middle Ground in North that appreciated an Irish gov not caving into London.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3429 on: June 16, 2021, 09:29:17 PM »
Peter Barry was fairly pro nationalist too.
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6th sam

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3430 on: June 16, 2021, 09:50:21 PM »
Peter Barry was fairly pro nationalist too.

Would agree RF.
Iím no fan of FG, but Coveney and Barry would be the stand out FG politicians for having a rapport with the Irish in the the six counties . Both very impressive performers
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 09:30:41 PM by 6th sam »

Snapchap

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3431 on: June 17, 2021, 01:42:14 PM »
And right on cue the day after Leo talks about a new United Ireland  Beattie says now is not the right time to be talking about it.

As was Alan Kelly, a man who is regularly at pains to insist his party is the heir to the legacy of James Connolly yet who has been critical of Varadkar uttering his support for an end to partition.

dec

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3432 on: June 17, 2021, 03:48:11 PM »
Peter Barry was fairly pro nationalist too.


He demonstrated his affection for the north by running in 4 different Westminster constituencies in one election.