The vaccine rollout

[Angelo]

It's strange on this one that we seem to be dismissing slow rollouts of the vaccine, only X % done. Yet deaths are much, much lower than that and we've changed the course of the planet.

Bad news sells.

Exactly.

It's easier for governments to blame people for not complying that to actually put solutions in place then when you have naive folly who will accept everything without actually questioning and looking at the data.

[imtommygunn]

It's got nothing to do with "the data".

The government has f**ked up by having no working track and trace, by not closing borders, by underfunding the NHS (the south equally as bad from what I can see)  and I'm sure the list could go on.

The health system is now f**ked unless they lockdown. It's as simple as that.

Dissecting data from year a, b or c to the nth degree - whether you understand the data or not - will make no difference to that fact. The health service(s) are in a very crippling time and will continue to be until this gets cleared. To alleviate pressure on the health service until they get , what we all hope or we are in big bother, the silver bullet of a vaccine then we need to lockdown. There are no other options.

The governments here couldn't run a piss up in a brewery never mind successfully navigate a global pandemic and this is why it has come to what it has come to.

[Angelo]

It's got nothing to do with "the data".

The government has f**ked up by having no working track and trace, by not closing borders, by underfunding the NHS (the south equally as bad from what I can see)  and I'm sure the list could go on.

The health system is now f**ked unless they lockdown. It's as simple as that.

Dissecting data from year a, b or c to the nth degree - whether you understand the data or not - will make no difference to that fact. The health service(s) are in a very crippling time and will continue to be until this gets cleared. To alleviate pressure on the health service until they get , what we all hope or we are in big bother, the silver bullet of a vaccine then we need to lockdown. There are no other options.

The governments here couldn't run a piss up in a brewery never mind successfully navigate a global pandemic and this is why it has come to what it has come to.

It's the same all over Europe.

There are other options. We just chose the one that solely focuses on Covid and completely ignore the devastating impacts of implementing that strategy.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the cure might have far more consequences than the problem?

[imtommygunn]

There are other options if you have a government who either a) can or b) will implement them. We don't. (Incidentally those involve shutting borders first and foremost - never going to happen - then a lot more after that).

We don't have a cure. We have a stop gap until we can find a magic silver bullet of a vaccine which we all may pray works.

[GetOverTheBar]

Ah sure everyone's going to die so why bother wasting money on Hospitals, doctors, health systems etc.....?

You were the man celebrating the fact the North was undergoing a rough enough time with regards to numbers.

To be honest, I don't really think there's much point in you trying to go down the moral route.

[Angelo]

There are other options if you have a government who either a) can or b) will implement them. We don't. (Incidentally those involve shutting borders first and foremost - never going to happen - then a lot more after that).

We don't have a cure. We have a stop gap until we can find a magic silver bullet of a vaccine which we all may pray works.

Sweden are the only gov in Europe who did something different.

They've not done any worse than the other countries despite being pilloried for it by the know nothings.

[imtommygunn]

I haven't looked in that much detail of Sweden if I'm honest. One thing I would say is that data on this is more than deaths - it is also how the health service copes and has capacity to cope. Anything I see on your analysis of data, and I don't read it all, would suggest your bottom line is deaths. It is a lot more than that. Maybe I could be picking you up wrong.

Also without delving too much I would have thought that by bringing in restrictions of some sort they are almost admitting they should have done that in the first place anyway.

[Angelo]

I haven't looked in that much detail of Sweden if I'm honest. One thing I would say is that data on this is more than deaths - it is also how the health service copes and has capacity to cope. Anything I see on your analysis of data, and I don't read it all, would suggest your bottom line is deaths. It is a lot more than that. Maybe I could be picking you up wrong.

Also without delving too much I would have thought that by bringing in restrictions of some sort they are almost admitting they should have done that in the first place anyway.

And what about lockdowns? What about the data of them, we know the stigma of high unemployment rates on a society never mind when you go through all the different vulnerable groupings and the impact it has on them.

[imtommygunn]

What about lockdowns?

What data do you want on them?

x businesses shut because of lockdown. y people killed themselves due to the impacts of lockdown.

What are you looking for here?

[Angelo]

What about lockdowns?

What data do you want on them?

x businesses shut because of lockdown. y people killed themselves due to the impacts of lockdown.

What are you looking for here?

An acceptance that the cure could have more far reaching and long lasting damage than the problem.

[imtommygunn]

It may have or then on the other hand it may not have.

We'll never know.

I think it will have massive negative repercussions and I wish we didn't have to do it. However I also think that not doing it would have significantly more negative repercussions.

What is this argument about? Is thinking like the above meant to make someone a bad person or something?

[armaghniac]

It's got nothing to do with "the data".

The government has f**ked up by having no working track and trace, by not closing borders, by underfunding the NHS (the south equally as bad from what I can see)  and I'm sure the list could go on.

The health system is now f**ked unless they lockdown. It's as simple as that.

Dissecting data from year a, b or c to the nth degree - whether you understand the data or not - will make no difference to that fact. The health service(s) are in a very crippling time and will continue to be until this gets cleared. To alleviate pressure on the health service until they get , what we all hope or we are in big bother, the silver bullet of a vaccine then we need to lockdown. There are no other options.

The Health services North and South have a lot wrong with them in normal times and some disgraceful waiting lists. However, even a good health service can't cope with a once in a century disease without extra measures, Germany being a good current example.

Anyone old enough to die from Covid will remember that 39 years ago at this exact time of year (8 Jan) that most of Ireland was completely fecked up by snow and had to pretty much close down. Now of course when there is snow you can say that the government should have more equipment etc, but given the frequency of heavy snow it isn't really feasible to do that. After that snow the US government donated Ireland snow blowers, these were never used and were scrapped after 20 years or so, as sufficient snow did not fall for 28 years (2010). Likewise you cannot run the health service with loads of extra staff and hospitals for a once in a 100 year event.

And whatever about the anti lockdown brigade last year when they said that a vaccine might never come, to let Covid rip a few weeks before vaccines become available would be an act of monumental stupidity.

[Angelo]

It may have or then on the other hand it may not have.

We'll never know.

I think it will have massive negative repercussions and I wish we didn't have to do it. However I also think that not doing it would have significantly more negative repercussions.

What is this argument about? Is thinking like the above meant to make someone a bad person or something?

So you don't know but dismiss anyway. Right now is the time to take the right action.

[johnnycool]

Matt Hancock goes on a PR stunt to a GP's clinic to see how they're getting on with the vaccinations and their batch didn't arrive........

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-surgery-visited-by-matt-hancock-to-mark-oxfordastrazeneca-jab-rollout-has-delivery-of-it-delayed-12181327?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

[imtommygunn]

It may have or then on the other hand it may not have.

We'll never know.

I think it will have massive negative repercussions and I wish we didn't have to do it. However I also think that not doing it would have significantly more negative repercussions.

What is this argument about? Is thinking like the above meant to make someone a bad person or something?

So you don't know but dismiss anyway. Right now is the time to take the right action.

I've not dismissed anything.

Does every choice you make mean you dismiss every other potential choice?

You are the mosyt dismissive person here lol