Guess the Sindo Headline

[Angelo]

Could the PIRA supporters explain to me how the Irish kennel club and the Le Mons hotel were part of a "war with the British".
Or Gardai Hand, Clerkin, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan.
Or Private Kelly
Or Senator Fox.
And what did continuing the War from 1974 to 1998 achieve?

Could the above Old IRA supporter explain to me what murdering Maria Lindsay and Protestants in Dunmanway achieved?
Or the 200 disappeared during the War of Independence.
The gory civil war which cost 2k lives
The murder of 750 civilians during the War of Independence
The killings of elected TDs and Ministers during the Civil War (Kevin O'Higgins etc)
And was all that murder and bloodshed worth abandoning their northern brethren in a sectarian state where they watched state forces allow nationalist families be burn out of their homes by loyalists mobs, have British soldiers open fire on unarmed civilians in the streets of Derry and have intelligence collude with sectarian death squads to execute civilian families in their own homes?

I know the above poster has me on ignore. Because he's not much of a man who has the courage to really stand behind the moronic and small minded comments he makes.

[Armagh18]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?

Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?

[Snapchap]

Could the PIRA supporters explain to me how the Irish kennel club and the Le Mons hotel were part of a "war with the British".
Or Gardai Hand, Clerkin, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan.
Or Private Kelly
Or Senator Fox.
And what did continuing the War from 1974 to 1998 achieve?

About as much as the Dunmanway Massacre did, would you say? Or did you actually think civilians weren't targetted by the Old IRA?

[trueblue1234]

Poor Rossfan always leaves himself open.

[Rossfan]

Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.

[Angelo]

It should be noted for the record that Rossfan REFUSES to condemn sectarian killings by the old IRA and has removed any credibility from his moral standpoint.

[Angelo]

Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.

This isn't a thread about 1969-1998 so it's a bizarre contention that you can't answer that question due to the timeline.

Why don't you answer the question rather than avoiding it. You like to dish it out but can't take it back.

[mouview]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?

Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?

If that is the case, why are they not in government already? Think about it...

[Angelo]

Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.

Why would they?

Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.

I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.

If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?

Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?

If that is the case, why are they not in government already? Think about it...

Because Ireland is partitioned.

Because the same generation who voted FF and FG for decades were the same generations who turned a blind eye to institutional child abuse.

[Snapchap]

Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.

I already did answer your question. My answer, as you no doubt read, was as follows:

"about as much as the Dunmanway Massacre".

Maybe you just missed that bit because you are just so thoroughly conditioned to turning a blind eye to atrocities carried out by the Old IRA out of a fear of having to confront your deeply rooted hypocrisy.

Besides, this thread isn't about the PIRA. If you want to talk about them, then sadly for you, that means the Old IRA are fair game to talk about too. Why are you so evasive when asked the same questions about the Old IRA as you ask others about the PIRA?

[seafoid]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

[clonadmad]

The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today

They were winners


The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of

Brits out of the North

NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it

They lost

There's the difference

There is it. The single most stupid post ever contributed to gaaboard. Congratulations.

Typical nordie victim whinging

If you lot had a bit more Dan Breen about ye and a little less Freddie Stakeknife

Yed have been a lot further on

The reality is that what push came to shove in the war of independence you had the 6 northern counties hiding under the bed,

when the likes of Tom Barry was outnumbered 60 to 1 in West Cork and still carrying the fight to the British

The Nordies couldn't even create enough trouble in so called nationalist areas like Derry city or South Armagh to tie down British troops, never mind come to the aid of their under pressure southern brigades

Is that you Eoghan?

That's the best the nordies on here can come up with it?

If you knew anything Harris you'd know he hated the "old" IRA as much as the provo's


Back on topic

The reality is the northern IRA couldnt eke out any bit of Territory in the 6 counties even in the most nationalist of areas

And your provos lost the war they were fighting

Because Ill say it slowly again

The Northern State is still in existence

As for the bleating about a death toll in the war of independence and nordie clowns pointing at the death toll

And again I'll say it slowly

It was a   drumroll.  war.

[trueblue1234]

Because the south sold out.

[Snapchap]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.

So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.

So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?

You are a hypocritical clown.

[Angelo]

The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.

There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.

Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.