https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000wmjv
Didn't realise he lost a brother at an early age, for a child he would have had a shitload to deal with.
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 04:51:08 PM
Didn't realise he lost a brother at an early age, for a child he would have had a shitload to deal with.
Oisin was only a baby when his brother Thomas was drowned at a summer school in Rann na Feirste. He wouldn't remember, but it would have been a shadow in the house.
Oisin McConville is one of the best GAA pundits around, he has no set agenda and generally calls the game as he sees it. He's definitely the best co-commentator when he is on BBC. I've noticed that he is increasingly also branching into non GAA media stuff, I wonder would a career in politics be somewhere he is heading towards. I think he would be best advised to stay away from it though, best stick to what he does best.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 31, 2021, 05:32:35 PM
Oisin McConville is one of the best GAA pundits around, he has no set agenda and generally calls the game as he sees it. He's definitely the best co-commentator when he is on BBC. I've noticed that he is increasingly also branching into non GAA media stuff, I wonder would a career in politics be somewhere he is heading towards. I think he would be best advised to stay away from it though, best stick to what he does best.
Would agree. The likes of Oisín and Marty Clarke take pride in good quality analysis of the game itself , shoot from the hip, never afraid to give an opinion but steer clear of sound bites and personal insults. Oisín's contribution outside GAA speaks for itself.
Quote from: 6th sam on May 31, 2021, 05:53:07 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on May 31, 2021, 05:32:35 PM
Oisin McConville is one of the best GAA pundits around, he has no set agenda and generally calls the game as he sees it. He's definitely the best co-commentator when he is on BBC. I've noticed that he is increasingly also branching into non GAA media stuff, I wonder would a career in politics be somewhere he is heading towards. I think he would be best advised to stay away from it though, best stick to what he does best.
Would agree. The likes of Oisín and Marty Clarke take pride in good quality analysis of the game itself , shoot from the hip, never afraid to give an opinion but steer clear of sound bites and personal insults. Oisín's contribution outside GAA speaks for itself.
Yes, Clarke is very good also.
Best talkback in ages because normal talkback is just another version of nolan.
Quote from: yellowcard on May 31, 2021, 05:32:35 PM
Oisin McConville is one of the best GAA pundits around, he has no set agenda and generally calls the game as he sees it. He's definitely the best co-commentator when he is on BBC. I've noticed that he is increasingly also branching into non GAA media stuff, I wonder would a career in politics be somewhere he is heading towards. I think he would be best advised to stay away from it though, best stick to what he does best.
Have to say he is very good as a pundit. It's a pity RTÉ don't have him on more often, instead of Dessie Dolan for instance.
Him and Clarke are a level above what RTÉ have. Hopefully it's the start of them getting some half decent analysis.
Was listening to him on the road home earlier. The funny thing is even though I've known him all my life I learned something about him today I never knew and in hindsight it makes an awful lot of sense for some stuff that happened. Proud to call him my friend but questioning some of his taste in music ;D
What about his point about encouraging Protestants to participate in Gaelic games?
This isn't something that will change quickly but comments like Oisin's will hopefully open up discussion so that we can build a broad base of gaels who think this is a good idea. The second step is come up with practical options on how to achieve it and then to get going with those solutions
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 31, 2021, 08:09:59 PM
Was listening to him on the road home earlier. The funny thing is even though I've known him all my life I learned something about him today I never knew and in hindsight it makes an awful lot of sense for some stuff that happened. Proud to call him my friend but questioning some of his taste in music ;D
Started of with Whitesnake and all downhill from there
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 08:20:32 PM
What about his point about encouraging Protestants to participate in Gaelic games?
This isn't something that will change quickly but comments like Oisin's will hopefully open up discussion so that we can build a broad base of gaels who think this is a good idea. The second step is come up with practical options on how to achieve it and then to get going with those solutions
Probably refine that to Northern Protestants.
Its a very interesting one. When you think of the discussion about a United Ireland in the "General" area - and think of how unionists might be persuaded that in a UI they won't be trampled over and they will be a welcome party on the island - which may mean moderate "unionists" could vote for a UI if it was a compelling economic case - then the GAA is probably one of the cornerstones in making the case.
Would folks accept dropping the tricolour and national anthem if they knew it increased the chances of a UI within 20 years? Would that be against the charter of the GAA? Or would it be very much in keeping with what Michael Cusack et al were aiming for when founding the GAA?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 31, 2021, 08:27:44 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 08:20:32 PM
What about his point about encouraging Protestants to participate in Gaelic games?
This isn't something that will change quickly but comments like Oisin's will hopefully open up discussion so that we can build a broad base of gaels who think this is a good idea. The second step is come up with practical options on how to achieve it and then to get going with those solutions
Probably refine that to Northern Protestants.
Its a very interesting one. When you think of the discussion about a United Ireland in the "General" area - and think of how unionists might be persuaded that in a UI they won't be trampled over and they will be a welcome party on the island - which may mean moderate "unionists" could vote for a UI if it was a compelling economic case - then the GAA is probably one of the cornerstones in making the case.
Would folks accept dropping the tricolour and national anthem if they knew it increased the chances of a UI within 20 years? Would that be against the charter of the GAA? Or would it be very much in keeping with what Michael Cusack et al were aiming for when founding the GAA?
Dropping the flag and anthem as a tactic to increase the chances of a United Ireland kind of misses the point
Middle class unionists probably won't have a huge problem with the anthem as they are likely to also be rugby fans and are down in Dublin for a lot of International games.
However, if there was to be a UI Unionists are going to be expected to drop GSTQ and I suppose the same would have to happen with Amhrán na bhFiann - regardless of whether it represents 90%+ of the island of Ireland. I suspect there would have to be a discussion about a flag that best represents a UI.
On the other hand, regardless of what compromises are or are not made a United Ireland is on the horizon. DUP's political views are not in keeping with modern society, they really screwed themselves over going into power with the Tories and paid no attention to what happened with the Lib Dems.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 08:33:41 PM
Dropping the flag and anthem as a tactic to increase the chances of a United Ireland kind of misses the point
Does it?
Do you think it wouldn't be a 32 county Ireland under a different flag and national anthem?
What were the United Irishmen and all others fighting for before 1916 then? Was it less of a 32 county Ireland?
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
Middle class unionists probably won't have a huge problem with the anthem as they are likely to also be rugby fans and are down in Dublin for a lot of International games.
A few sweeping generalisations there. We will have to do better than that.
Anyway Amhrán na bhFiann is played half a dozen times a year at the rugby. It's used a bit more often in GAA and in a lot of locations unlike a D4 day out.
Also I think we can aim a little higher than things people don't have a huge problem with
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
However, if there was to be a UI Unionists are going to be expected to drop GSTQ and I suppose the same would have to happen with Amhrán na bhFiann - regardless of whether it represents 90%+ of the island of Ireland.
Why is this being linked to a United Ireland at all? And I guess we are talking about making an effort before a United Ireland?
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
I suspect there would have to be a discussion about a flag that best represents a UI.
Again all this isn't about or after a UI. Why any need for a flag at all?
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 31, 2021, 09:04:29 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 08:33:41 PM
Dropping the flag and anthem as a tactic to increase the chances of a United Ireland kind of misses the point
Does it?
Do you think it wouldn't be a 32 county Ireland under a different flag and national anthem?
What were the United Irishmen and all others fighting for before 1916 then? Was it less of a 32 county Ireland?
I don't think that what is talking about is a UI of any description. That's a separate issue. This is a question about GAA on the island of Ireland. Are the games to be bound to nationalism and identity or about sport and reaching out to the peoples of the island.
The offer to Protestants who be generous and genuine. And not a tactic to help engineer a UI. It should be about depoliticising rather than further politicising GAA
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 31, 2021, 08:27:44 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 08:20:32 PM
What about his point about encouraging Protestants to participate in Gaelic games?
This isn't something that will change quickly but comments like Oisin's will hopefully open up discussion so that we can build a broad base of gaels who think this is a good idea. The second step is come up with practical options on how to achieve it and then to get going with those solutions
Probably refine that to Northern Protestants.
Its a very interesting one. When you think of the discussion about a United Ireland in the "General" area - and think of how unionists might be persuaded that in a UI they won't be trampled over and they will be a welcome party on the island - which may mean moderate "unionists" could vote for a UI if it was a compelling economic case - then the GAA is probably one of the cornerstones in making the case.
Would folks accept dropping the tricolour and national anthem if they knew it increased the chances of a UI within 20 years? Would that be against the charter of the GAA? Or would it be very much in keeping with what Michael Cusack et al were aiming for when founding the GAA?
I don't think there's any need for the anthem at any match, expect maybe All Ireland finals, as that's the national final. The tri colour isn't needed at any GAA ground, even Croke Park. The GAA's own flag should be flown.
The GAA promotes Irish identity, sport, culture, language, music etc. We don't need the flag. We already know who and what we are.
Quote from: smelmoth on May 31, 2021, 09:08:14 PM
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
Middle class unionists probably won't have a huge problem with the anthem as they are likely to also be rugby fans and are down in Dublin for a lot of International games.
A few sweeping generalisations there. We will have to do better than that.
Anyway Amhrán na bhFiann is played half a dozen times a year at the rugby. It's used a bit more often in GAA and in a lot of locations unlike a D4 day out.
Also I think we can aim a little higher than things people don't have a huge problem with
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
However, if there was to be a UI Unionists are going to be expected to drop GSTQ and I suppose the same would have to happen with Amhrán na bhFiann - regardless of whether it represents 90%+ of the island of Ireland.
Why is this being linked to a United Ireland at all? And I guess we are talking about making an effort before a United Ireland?
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 08:50:06 PM
I suspect there would have to be a discussion about a flag that best represents a UI.
Again all this isn't about or after a UI. Why any need for a flag at all?
Ok fair enough it did get a little political there.
However, I do agree with RadioGAAGAA there is an issue with flags and anthem used in the GAA that would be off-putting to protestants in GAA. Flags and anthems, will always divide rather than unite and more so in the North. If the GAA were to remove this, making itself a neutral and inclusive organisation to all people on the island of Ireland then I would suspect there would be an uptake in the sport amongst protestants. However, I would question how significant the impact would be.
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.
There would be a benefit in appeasing them because you are disarming them from having any sort of anti-GAA agenda. Once these issues they raise (mainly politicians) disappear you might see protestants think "They have done this to make us feel welcome in their organisation so let's give it a go".
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.
Possibly, especially the grounds named after more recent republicans. But against that - many of the grounds are named after Protestants who fought for a United Ireland.
Whether the average Billy on the street will bother to make the distinction is a different matter...
Most grounds are not named after anyone contentious.
There is a broader issue, one of the strengths of the GAA is strong family connections. I used to send my 90 year aunt some clips on Cross' Rangers and point out that she knew the grandparents of those playing. In general, some clubs are a bit clannish. In addition, in the 6 counties the GAA has almost internalised the role it is given and while it would not tuen away someone going to state school or the like, it wouldn't attempt promotion in such places. In my opinion it should never assume the role of representing one community only, it might not get large numbers, it will rebuffed by bigots, but the point should be made on every occasion .
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didn't have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.
That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but what's it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism) , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and it's one of its strengths . Welcome everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin Why did outstanding athlete con O'callaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 11:38:01 PM
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?
Yes
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 11:38:01 PM
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC7Xv7kHiZ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC7Xv7kHiZ4)
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2021, 11:38:01 PM
Are people who play soccer and rugby unpatriotic by just playing those sports?
Lol. I'm not saying that at all.
I'm just saying (The North, and Dublin GAA are the best examples of this) , a proportion of gaa members go the extra mile because of the "Irish " ethos of the GAA. There is a concern that if you dilute that, you may lose more than you gain . That said, In a new ireland all trappings should be up for debate- tradition/uniqueness versus inclusiveness .
As a popular sport GAA punches above its weight currently , despite not having the global marketing attractiveness and simplicity of soccer. There is a fear that if GAA had to compete against soccer purely as a sport, soccer has too many aces. However GAA has a USP ( unique selling point) that other sports envy. We should always look to improve our inclusiveness but should be careful about diluting the Irish dimension.
There is a sense of identity you get with the GAA which you don't get with soccer. It's part of parish, who you are etc. Flying tricolours / playing national anthems has nothing to do with this.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
There is a sense of identity you get with the GAA which you don't get with soccer. It's part of parish, who you are etc. Flying tricolours / playing national anthems has nothing to do with this.
very much so and that's the biggest selling point for the GAA. The community aspect.
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.
It's what they've been fed for years by their political leadership unchallenged but once they do attend an event or go inside a GAA club they're apprehensive at first but once they see the walls aren't adorned with tricolours or posters of the proclamation at every cut and turn.
We run various weight loss initiatives and dementia workshops who pull in from all sections of the local community and you can almost see the surprise from the local protestants and ones moved into the area that the walls have pictures and of various teams on them and that the nationalist agenda isn't a big thing but irish culture like the sport, language, dance and music are more important.
For me a UI is more important than retaining a tricolour or Amhrán na bhFiann if it came to that.
JC a kind of related but also unrelated question... What club do Kircubben represent? Driving through there at the weekend and saw a load of hurls. I didn't think it would be a hurling stronghold.
The GAA really stood up during this pandemic (at a local level) in terms of loads of GAA clubs delivering stuff to vulnerable people etc and like you say run plenty of community initiatives.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 09:31:47 AM
JC a kind of related but also unrelated question... What club do Kircubben represent? Driving through there at the weekend and saw a load of hurls. I didn't think it would be a hurling stronghold.
The GAA really stood up during this pandemic (at a local level) in terms of loads of GAA clubs delivering stuff to vulnerable people etc and like you say run plenty of community initiatives.
Kircubbin is 80+ % catholic and that's where Ballycran would garner most of their players from. The Orange hall along the shore and the names on some of the local businesses would suggest otherwise but there you go.
Ah that was what threw me. I did wonder where Ballycran got their players from.
Would Ballygalget be the Cloughey area between portaferry and portavogie? Doesnt seem too built uo of an area population wise. Would Ballygalget be a more rural club?
Quote from: ardtole on June 01, 2021, 09:51:37 AM
Would Ballygalget be the Cloughey area between portaferry and portavogie? Doesnt seem too built uo of an area population wise. Would Ballygalget be a more rural club?
We'd take from the Cloughey area which is now adorned in flegs and so would Ballycran to an extent as well. The demographics in that area has changed significantly since i was a teenager. A lot of new builds in that area have young catholic families in them considering the place had a "Cloughey True blues" pipe band..
We're almost exclusively rural although we take from areas like Cloughey and indeed Portaferry, neither of which are overly big places either.
Quote from: 6th sam on May 31, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didn't have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.
That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but what's it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism) , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and it's one of its strengths . Welcome everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin Why did outstanding athlete con O'callaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
The patriotic principles you refer to are what? The flag and anthem?
Are we really going to see lots of nationalists turn away from the GAA, stop sending their kids to play, because the flag/anthem are removed/limited?
I do Agree that both need removing but not because it would help bring in more unionists (although if it helps, that's good too). I just don't think they are needed. Surely as passionate GAA people, we are mature enough and secure enough in our identity that we don't need a flag/anthem? The GAA is a thriving sporting/cultural organisation, and it will still thrive without them. If anyone turns away from the GAA if they are removed, maybe that would say a lot about them and their priorities
Quote from: Solo_run on May 31, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 31, 2021, 09:44:20 PM
If you were to believe some of the shite on social media you would think the Gaa was just another breakaway of the ira. There are certain people it will never appease. Like you say the uptake would be questionable. The problem for me would not be flags and anthems it would be the naming of grounds.
There would be a benefit in appeasing them because you are disarming them from having any sort of anti-GAA agenda. Once these issues they raise (mainly politicians) disappear you might see protestants think "They have done this to make us feel welcome in their organisation so let's give it a go".
Are you serious? These people would near oppose oxygen in the atmosphere if you reiterated to them enough times that Sinn Fein breathe it. Look at the absolute shítshow made of the Irish Language Act. The mere thought of it sends shivers down these reactionary bigots' spines. They're incapable of rational thought. If Republicans support something you can guarantee they will find some excuse to oppose it.
The GAA hasn't a chance, no matter what it does. Even the so-called liberal and great white hope of Unionism Doug Beattie can't bear the thought of an ILA. He even got his knickers in a twist when St Pauls in Lurgan had the audacity to have their goal nets in their club colours, or as Doug saw it a big "fück you" from the club to Unionists - because they can't view the Irish national flag as anything other than an IRA flag and by extension the colours of that flag (even though the colours of the nets were green, white and gold).
Strangely though not a peep from him when the local degenerates erected soldier F paraphernalia and all the other usual trappings in the town centre for the local Nationalists to enjoy. When some wags removed the Soldier F banner and burnt it that DUP wench Carla Lockhart described it as a hate crime!
I'm all for the GAA being progressive, improving relations and encouraging those from a traditional Unionist background to take part in our games but realistically (regardless of what changes are made) this will be confined to some of the more middle-class clubs in Belfast.
Was in Derry over the weekend. First time in a while we drove home along the main road as we normally have to head to Tyrone first. Anyway, it was on that road that we were listening to the interview. I never had paid much attention before. A nothing place in my life. Never even heard of it hardly. Coming into it I saw the Institute ground on the right hand side and as we drove the flags got bigger and more and more prevalent. 3 big f**k off flags per lamp post, NI flag, Butchers Apron and either a UVF or a Soldier F flag. Hundreds of them. Everywhere. Few miles up the road you have Dungiven. Strong nationalist/republican area. Thriving club and strong Irish ethos, probably one of the areas that you'd expect some markings of the areas 'identity', particularly at this time of the year with the 40 anniversary of the Hunger Strikers. Not a single Tricolour, not a single one. A few Dungiven black and whites along the way at houses but that was about it. I think I saw maybe 2 posters for Kevin Lynch and that was it.
The difference in what you can actually see is frightening. Driving round the Articlaves, and the Limavadies etc and all you see is flag after flag after flag. It used to be intimidating but as a confident, open nationalist/republican who is steeped in the GAA it doesn't work any more. Whilst what Oisín says is true that in the North there is not the same attraction for Protestants to join up, there is less of a likelihood given what is happening within their own community and the fear mongering that comes from all sides of their 'leadership'. Why compromise when compromising is a single pathway with no likely benefit?
Have your flags, have your marches, have your 'culture', the Irish language, the Irish music, the Irish sporting identity, and the revived Irish identity will continue to grow. Join our journey forward, or stay stuck in 1690 forever.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 01, 2021, 03:04:59 PM
Was in Derry over the weekend. First time in a while we drove home along the main road as we normally have to head to Tyrone first. Anyway, it was on that road that we were listening to the interview. I never had paid much attention before. A nothing place in my life. Never even heard of it hardly. Coming into it I saw the Institute ground on the right hand side and as we drove the flags got bigger and more and more prevalent. 3 big f**k off flags per lamp post, NI flag, Butchers Apron and either a UVF or a Soldier F flag. Hundreds of them. Everywhere. Few miles up the road you have Dungiven. Strong nationalist/republican area. Thriving club and strong Irish ethos, probably one of the areas that you'd expect some markings of the areas 'identity', particularly at this time of the year with the 40 anniversary of the Hunger Strikers. Not a single Tricolour, not a single one. A few Dungiven black and whites along the way at houses but that was about it. I think I saw maybe 2 posters for Kevin Lynch and that was it.
The difference in what you can actually see is frightening. Driving round the Articlaves, and the Limavadies etc and all you see is flag after flag after flag. It used to be intimidating but as a confident, open nationalist/republican who is steeped in the GAA it doesn't work any more. Whilst what Oisín says is true that in the North there is not the same attraction for Protestants to join up, there is less of a likelihood given what is happening within their own community and the fear mongering that comes from all sides of their 'leadership'. Why compromise when compromising is a single pathway with no likely benefit?
Have your flags, have your marches, have your 'culture', the Irish language, the Irish music, the Irish sporting identity, and the revived Irish identity will continue to grow. Join our journey forward, or stay stuck in 1690 forever.
In mixed areas and decent residential areas the flags are not there, where I live there are no flags in any of the houses, anywhere, they don't come over the hill at Monkstown and stick up flegs! nor are they down in Whiteabbey village either. But those wee town that are solely protestant or 95% its decked out within an inch of its existence! BT9 in Belfast there will not be any either and I'd say its half and half, but the locals would not tolerate the area looking like a shithole.
Like you, a fleg doesn't intimidate me I don't even see them anymore. I see an eyesore
The flag is an insecurity thing. It makes me laugh now tbh. When younger and I was brought up in a nationalist only area I'd not have seen them so for a wee bit they annoyed me but you grow out of it. Sure look at the crown roundabout in Larne. How could you do anything but laugh?
I would be in England / Scotland a good bit. You'd be lucky to see one flag on any visit never mind streets bedecked in them.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 01, 2021, 03:35:18 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on June 01, 2021, 03:04:59 PM
Was in Derry over the weekend. First time in a while we drove home along the main road as we normally have to head to Tyrone first. Anyway, it was on that road that we were listening to the interview. I never had paid much attention before. A nothing place in my life. Never even heard of it hardly. Coming into it I saw the Institute ground on the right hand side and as we drove the flags got bigger and more and more prevalent. 3 big f**k off flags per lamp post, NI flag, Butchers Apron and either a UVF or a Soldier F flag. Hundreds of them. Everywhere. Few miles up the road you have Dungiven. Strong nationalist/republican area. Thriving club and strong Irish ethos, probably one of the areas that you'd expect some markings of the areas 'identity', particularly at this time of the year with the 40 anniversary of the Hunger Strikers. Not a single Tricolour, not a single one. A few Dungiven black and whites along the way at houses but that was about it. I think I saw maybe 2 posters for Kevin Lynch and that was it.
The difference in what you can actually see is frightening. Driving round the Articlaves, and the Limavadies etc and all you see is flag after flag after flag. It used to be intimidating but as a confident, open nationalist/republican who is steeped in the GAA it doesn't work any more. Whilst what Oisín says is true that in the North there is not the same attraction for Protestants to join up, there is less of a likelihood given what is happening within their own community and the fear mongering that comes from all sides of their 'leadership'. Why compromise when compromising is a single pathway with no likely benefit?
Have your flags, have your marches, have your 'culture', the Irish language, the Irish music, the Irish sporting identity, and the revived Irish identity will continue to grow. Join our journey forward, or stay stuck in 1690 forever.
In mixed areas and decent residential areas the flags are not there, where I live there are no flags in any of the houses, anywhere, they don't come over the hill at Monkstown and stick up flegs! nor are they down in Whiteabbey village either. But those wee town that are solely protestant or 95% its decked out within an inch of its existence! BT9 in Belfast there will not be any either and I'd say its half and half, but the locals would not tolerate the area looking like a shithole.
Like you, a fleg doesn't intimidate me I don't even see them anymore. I see an eyesore
Our local Alliance MLA, ex camog Kellie put up a facebook post about loyalist paramilitary flegs going up in Cloughey..
Strangely very few likes and comments below it considering when she mentions integrated education all the great and good row in behind her about how it's the way forward, yet very little about UVF flegs in what is now a mixed area.
They don't bother me in the slightest either, akin to a dog pissing against the post..
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 03:42:49 PM
The flag is an insecurity thing. It makes me laugh now tbh. When younger and I was brought up in a nationalist only area I'd not have seen them so for a wee bit they annoyed me but you grow out of it. Sure look at the crown roundabout in Larne. How could you do anything but laugh?
I would be in England / Scotland a good bit. You'd be lucky to see one flag on any visit never mind streets bedecked in them.
Is it still there? I worked in the place that made it lol!! Would have been young catholic students working on it...
I think it was made for the queen celebrations of some sorts and they were meant to keep it on there for just that period but have left it there!
That's about 8/9 years or more
Agreed about all of this but the thing is that is still a very strong mentality of a large core of people. Like cornered rats they are getting angrier and angrier, the whole move by the DUP to have an outreach program is not to assuage any of their fears but to bring the angry dog back inside the yard so it can do its angry barking for them and there is a few hard years ahead I fear
I do think you are right on that BC. The siege mentality is being created as we speak and the DUP are going to be nothing more than loyalist paramilitary puppets.
Equating nationalists with catholics is an error. Nationalists are increasingly secular
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 03:42:49 PM
The flag is an insecurity thing. It makes me laugh now tbh. When younger and I was brought up in a nationalist only area I'd not have seen them so for a wee bit they annoyed me but you grow out of it. Sure look at the crown roundabout in Larne. How could you do anything but laugh?
I would be in England / Scotland a good bit. You'd be lucky to see one flag on any visit never mind streets bedecked in them.
I have seen more Union Jack's in the North than I have living in England.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2021, 09:27:09 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 01, 2021, 09:01:54 AM
There is a sense of identity you get with the GAA which you don't get with soccer. It's part of parish, who you are etc. Flying tricolours / playing national anthems has nothing to do with this.
very much so and that's the biggest selling point for the GAA. The community aspect.
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.
It's what they've been fed for years by their political leadership unchallenged but once they do attend an event or go inside a GAA club they're apprehensive at first but once they see the walls aren't adorned with tricolours or posters of the proclamation at every cut and turn.
We run various weight loss initiatives and dementia workshops who pull in from all sections of the local community and you can almost see the surprise from the local protestants and ones moved into the area that the walls have pictures and of various teams on them and that the nationalist agenda isn't a big thing but irish culture like the sport, language, dance and music are more important.
For me a UI is more important than retaining a tricolour or Amhrán na bhFiann if it came to that.
Genuine question. If the volunteerism in the gAA is just down to community, why do community based soccer clubs usually struggle more with volunteers .
Gaa strength is not purely down to patriotism but I do think it has an effect in most clubs, It would be a high risk strategy to dilute that. We have had members from a perceived "unionist" background in our club for years, we are proud of our irishness but it's not "in your face", and is nothing to do with religion or politics. We welcome everybody , their background is irrelevant . It seems to work very well. Surely we need to embrace and respect difference rather than move to a neutral blandness . By way of analogy , are we asking for A change of name of the "Royal Victoria Hospital" ? : obviously not, it's an historic name and is irrelevant to most people . If it's threatening and exclusive get rid of it, if it's historical , unique and non threatening , why remove it?
Tbh with the patriotism point and why soccer clubs struggle I do think you maybe have a point. I don't know what makes the GAA the kind of hub of the community as opposed to soccer but where I grew up and where family etc have grown up that's the way it has been. How it started like that I don't know but think there is probably historical reason for it.
Another factor is ownership of grounds too which adds to identity IMO. (We had no soccer setup where I am from so hard to compare why it hasn't the impact).
I don't find anything in the GAA threatening but not really about what I find. It's all about perception etc. There has never really been any move to get rid of royal type naming from anything.
Quote from: 6th sam on May 31, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didn't have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.
That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but what's it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism) , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and it's one of its strengths . Welcome everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin Why did outstanding athlete con O'callaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
If GAA can't thrive on its own merits then it's bucked either way.
Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they can't be arsed. It's sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.
If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then that's the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just don't think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2021, 09:27:09 AM
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.
Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted
Quote from: smelmoth on June 01, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2021, 09:27:09 AM
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.
Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted
Would agree.
All "Protestants" I know either don't care , admire the GAA or are members of the GAA
Quote from: smelmoth on June 01, 2021, 09:33:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 01, 2021, 09:27:09 AM
Speak to the average protestant in the north and their perception of the GAA is almost like an IRA training camp and the Shinners run every GAA club in the north.
Your perception of the average Protestant is horribly distorted
I've had that said to me by a former boss from Larne but there is a certain level of ignorance within some of the protestant population as to what the GAA is about.
Quote from: smelmoth on June 01, 2021, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 31, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didn't have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.
That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but what's it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism) , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and it's one of its strengths . Welcome everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin Why did outstanding athlete con O'callaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
If GAA can't thrive on its own merits then it's bucked either way.
Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they can't be arsed. It's sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.
If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then that's the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just don't think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport
Being patriotic has nothing to do with a flag or an anthem for me, and doesn't have to be threatening . I think one of the mistakes being promoted in the North , is that everything must be neutralised , and if you're not neutral you're some sort of bigot , as opposed to respecting diverse identities and viewpoints. I follow GAA and soccer but only volunteer for GAA as I feel it's a positive manifestation of irishness and what makes us unique. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone but many of the best GAA volunteers I know, commit partly because of irishness.
In my opinion it's simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA with the Orange order. As a prominent journalist once said "the difference is the GAA wants to include , the OO wants to exclude." A unionist can be a GAA member , a Catholic can't join the OO.
The GAA is a unique organisation that thrives in this country , as an indigenous sport and community organisation. We should be wary of diluting those elements which have us punching above our weight. Positive uniqueness and cultural protection is important in any society .
Is the interview available anywhere?
Tried Radio 6 counties podcasts on phone but no sign.
There is a link on the opening post.
Quote from: 6th sam on June 01, 2021, 10:25:16 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on June 01, 2021, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 31, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on May 31, 2021, 10:19:01 PM
You have to look at how unionists feel walking/driving past a GAA ground with a tri colour flying. Some might feel unwelcome, intimidated or offended or might think, well I'll not be sending my kids there, even if they do play with local catholic kids.
Would we enter an orange hall or send our kids into one on some summer scheme/cross community thing, with the union flag flying above the door? Not trying to compare the GAA with the OO by the way. Just think a lot of Catholics would feel similar to unionists towards GAA
How many grounds have a tricolour ?
As a club that always had members from a unionist background , we didn't have to change anything, just be welcoming and keep politics out of it.
That said, if people think that Gaelic games can thrive on their own merits without patriotic trappings need to think again. Why does gaa volunteerism dwarf all other sports...patriotism is a big part of that.
The gaa does not have the professional and international attraction of most other competing sports eg soccer, rugby, but what's it has nailed is a sense of place: club, county , country .
If In our quest to draw in more unionists we dilute one of the things that makes us compete against the odds( ie patriotism) , we need to be careful what we wish for . Unionists are unlikely to join in their droves, and yet patriotic motivation for members may be diluted .
GAA is unique as an Irish sporting and cultural organisation and it's one of its strengths . Welcome everybody :yes, dilute patriotic principles: risky . Look at Dublin Why did outstanding athlete con O'callaghan choose GAA? Being a patriotic gaeilgeoir probably influenced that decision.
Be careful what u wish for!
If GAA can't thrive on its own merits then it's bucked either way.
Must volunteers in the clubs I have been involved in are volunteering around the underage structures. They do that because they want their kids running around. And they like the game. Few volunteer around Scor because they can't be arsed. It's sports and activity that gets them involved not patriotism.
If people are turning up and volunteering because of a flag and anthem then that's the orange order with a different flag and different anthem. I just don't think that represents most people. I think must attend sport because they like the sport
Being patriotic has nothing to do with a flag or an anthem for me, and doesn't have to be threatening . I think one of the mistakes being promoted in the North , is that everything must be neutralised , and if you're not neutral you're some sort of bigot , as opposed to respecting diverse identities and viewpoints. I follow GAA and soccer but only volunteer for GAA as I feel it's a positive manifestation of irishness and what makes us unique. I'm not saying that's the case for everyone but many of the best GAA volunteers I know, commit partly because of irishness.
In my opinion it's simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA with the Orange order. As a prominent journalist once said "the difference is the GAA wants to include , the OO wants to exclude." A unionist can be a GAA member , a Catholic can't join the OO.
The GAA is a unique organisation that thrives in this country , as an indigenous sport and community organisation. We should be wary of diluting those elements which have us punching above our weight. Positive uniqueness and cultural protection is important in any society .
I agree that it is simplistic and unfair to equate the GAA and OO. Which is why I am doing expressly the opposite.
In my experience the driver around an interest in Gaelic sports is an interest in sports generally and specifically the ones you played. Nationalism will certainly be a driver for some but just don't see the evidence that this is a key driver.
There isn't really any need for flag, anthem etc.
I recall a number of years back a sponsor who operated in NI used a map of NI showing their outlets in the promotion of a county club championship. A few of our less forward looking citizens were outraged at the tangential use of a map of NI in anything promoting GAA. Most people just thought they were assholes. It was sport. A sponsor was helping. Just get on with things.
The assholes involved just kept repeating the mantra of "32 county organisation". There was no need for that politicisation and from what I could see most nationalists agreed
I got savaged by 2 doctrinaire types here sone time ago for expressing an opinion on national flags at sports grounds in the 6 Counties.
That same 32 County line was forcibly expressed.
In the 26 I'd estimate nearly 100% of Gaelic games players/volunteers etc are there because of an interest in sport and in many places gaelic games are the only serious sport played.
In many places young lads dabble at all sports as long as possible.
The patriot stuff went out from the 1960s onwards due to influence of TV and the end of the Ban.
Would I be right in guessing that Protestants playing Gaelic games in the 6 would be from apolitical not particularly unionist families??
Quote from: Rossfan on June 02, 2021, 01:58:35 PM
I got savaged by 2 doctrinaire types here sone time ago for expressing an opinion on national flags at sports grounds in the 6 Counties.
That same 32 County line was forcibly expressed.
In the 26 I'd estimate nearly 100% of Gaelic games players/volunteers etc are there because of an interest in sport and in many places gaelic games are the only serious sport played.
In many places young lads dabble at all sports as long as possible.
The patriot stuff went out from the 1960s onwards due to influence of TV and the end of the Ban.
Would I be right in guessing that Protestants playing Gaelic games in the 6 would be from apolitical not particularly unionist families??
That last bit is probably right. There won't be any hard evidence either way.
The 32 county organisation is just a line that gets trotted out. It's not an answer to a question but a failure to answer. It's a bit like the "community spokesmen" in loyalist areas up here and their frequent calls for a "multi agency" response to crime, deprivation and lack of opportunity in loyalist areas. You ask which agencies they are thinking of and they are flummoxed. They use the phrase but have no clue what it is they are actually arguing. It must be addressed my "agencies" and there must be 2 or more. Leaves you with the distinct impression that multi agency means a fair share of the financial spoils between UDA and UVF so that there won't be any falling out