Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Rodger Mona on May 04, 2021, 12:41:14 PM
Very defensive of refs on this forum. I mentioned a couple of years back something i wasnt happy about a ref doing and got completely lambasted on here for it. whilst they should be owed the most credit for their participation in our games they shouldnt be exempt from any scrutiny. Players, managers and comittees get all forms of criticism on here and opinions are shared across the board, but this notion that you cant say anything to or about a ref has to stop. reminds me of the priests in the 70s where you darent of said a word about them....

Seriously? What an analogy...

Ref's are accountable and have been since we brought in assessors, their games are assessed and either feedback on the day or email sent. We could certainly do with more assessors and more assessments but games are reviewed
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Calm Down

Quote from: Rodger Mona on May 04, 2021, 12:41:14 PM
Very defensive of refs on this forum. I mentioned a couple of years back something i wasnt happy about a ref doing and got completely lambasted on here for it. whilst they should be owed the most credit for their participation in our games they shouldnt be exempt from any scrutiny. Players, managers and comittees get all forms of criticism on here and opinions are shared across the board, but this notion that you cant say anything to or about a ref has to stop. reminds me of the priests in the 70s where you darent of said a word about them....

Not my intention Rodger, my point was that there are comments and prejudices being made in respect of fitness etc, when it comes to the business end of the season it was always be a ref capable of staying with play who is appointed to the games, for the leagues etc and down the ages unfortunately I think it is a case of make the best of what we have.

When it comes to making comments on referees performances I also have no problem with these as long as they are fair and balanced, people will forget three 'easy' frees their free taker may have missed but remember the 'soft' free a ref gave to defeat them by a point, criticism is as valuable as praise as long as it is handed out in a fair, consistent and balanced manner

Dunsilly King

The problem I have with refs, is not the individual per say, but the inconsistent application of the rules. Take the prominent Raskarkin ref who does allow more physical contact, then the up coming ref from Tir na nog who blows everything like a non contact sport. Totally frustrating. There has to be something fundamentally wrong when there is such a variance. Apparently both came through the ranks based on these assessors, like seriously. In saying that I would take the Raskarkin refs approach all day long.

Calm Down

The problem may lie with the assessors, I have seen two assessment reports for two different games from Ulster for one of our inter county refs, one was saying that he was letting too much go and to blow everything early and the latter was saying the tackle must be allowed to develop more............seems a no win situation

Kickham csc

Quote from: Dunsilly King on May 04, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
The problem I have with refs, is not the individual per say, but the inconsistent application of the rules. Take the prominent Raskarkin ref who does allow more physical contact, then the up coming ref from Tir na nog who blows everything like a non contact sport. Totally frustrating. There has to be something fundamentally wrong when there is such a variance. Apparently both came through the ranks based on these assessors, like seriously. In saying that I would take the Raskarkin refs approach all day long.

This is one thing (can debate how significant) that is holding Antrim back at the intercounty level. Our games need to be a lot more physical, but not thuggish if we are going to develop players who can handle the white hot heat of intercounty championship

Growing up we would have watched a lot of Derry and Tryone football and it was hell for leather.
When you watch an Antrim game, the intensity levels were well down.

Too picky a ref doesn't help players, too lenient and you open the door for thuggish play.

Who would want to be a ref

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Kickham csc on May 04, 2021, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: Dunsilly King on May 04, 2021, 02:25:46 PM
The problem I have with refs, is not the individual per say, but the inconsistent application of the rules. Take the prominent Raskarkin ref who does allow more physical contact, then the up coming ref from Tir na nog who blows everything like a non contact sport. Totally frustrating. There has to be something fundamentally wrong when there is such a variance. Apparently both came through the ranks based on these assessors, like seriously. In saying that I would take the Raskarkin refs approach all day long.

This is one thing (can debate how significant) that is holding Antrim back at the intercounty level. Our games need to be a lot more physical, but not thuggish if we are going to develop players who can handle the white hot heat of intercounty championship

Growing up we would have watched a lot of Derry and Tryone football and it was hell for leather.
When you watch an Antrim game, the intensity levels were well down.

Too picky a ref doesn't help players, too lenient and you open the door for thuggish play.

Who would want to be a ref

The players dictate the pace and style I feel. If two teams want to go at it and play within the rules then happy days, the problem is players taking a hard tackle and seeking revenge, this normal spills over and the cry is "For flip sake ref, you caused that"

Its a no win situation.

Its the referees interpretation of the rules, not the supporters or the teams or the manager who is trying to referee it from the sideline, the variance comes from a lot factors, how they see the game, how they apply the rules, how they played the game. If we stuck to the letter of the law in relation to the rules the the consistency will be there, it would also be basically a non contact sport with not too many players at the end of the game ;)
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Calm Down

#20676
The thing I have always struggled with is the notion of a 'soft free', if a player is fouled by say a tug of the jersey and slowed down should this not be a free or is the ref being too picky? Does a man have to be half maimed for a free? As MR2 said al too often a ref is perceived to have caused an injury due to not being in control, therefore where is the line drawn?

@Dunsilly King, it is interesting that you have chose two SW referees for your example of evil v good, have they wronged you or your club or something?

Rodger Mona

MR2 please dont take it as i was comparing refs to priests of the 70's.  ;D Absolutely not, i was just remarking on the forums sensitivity, to any statements made regarding refs. thats all. It all adds to the banter after all

One point to make on the whole situation though from my own perspective. Obviously its a thankless job and thats reflected by the now demand we have for refs in the county. But we have now players and managers at club level who now train 4-6 nights a week between gym and s&c sessions and a total shift to a more professional environment. 10 years ago nobody would have seen the huge transformation in our games and the effort it takes to participate at any grade of senior level. There are Irish league teams/players not doing near what gaa clubs/players are doing training wise. So i think its fair when people are asking and raising concerns about the fitness of refs especially at senior level as the reffing needs to be in line with the damands of the modern game. I know from watching games around the county and seeing what goes on, thats not the case in some occasions. Overall we have more good refs than not so good. There are refs who wouldnt get a senior game in other counties due to fitness levels, age and theirimplementation of the rules. Now on the same breathe i would never name these people or try to belittle them individually as i take my hat off for stepping up when no one else does but its defintely an elephant in the room scenario that people arent keen on talking about.

Before i get the "put your name forward before saying that about men out trying their best" comments, let me just say i know myself i would make a horrible ref

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Rodger Mona on May 04, 2021, 03:17:51 PM
MR2 please dont take it as i was comparing refs to priests of the 70's.  ;D Absolutely not, i was just remarking on the forums sensitivity, to any statements made regarding refs. thats all. It all adds to the banter after all

One point to make on the whole situation though from my own perspective. Obviously its a thankless job and thats reflected by the now demand we have for refs in the county. But we have now players and managers at club level who now train 4-6 nights a week between gym and s&c sessions and a total shift to a more professional environment. 10 years ago nobody would have seen the huge transformation in our games and the effort it takes to participate at any grade of senior level. There are Irish league teams/players not doing near what gaa clubs/players are doing training wise. So i think its fair when people are asking and raising concerns about the fitness of refs especially at senior level as the reffing needs to be in line with the damands of the modern game. I know from watching games around the county and seeing what goes on, thats not the case in some occasions. Overall we have more good refs than not so good. There are refs who wouldnt get a senior game in other counties due to fitness levels, age and theirimplementation of the rules. Now on the same breathe i would never name these people or try to belittle them individually as i take my hat off for stepping up when no one else does but its defintely an elephant in the room scenario that people arent keen on talking about.

Before i get the "put your name forward before saying that about men out trying their best" comments, let me just say i know myself i would make a horrible ref

No all comments are fine and we've younger ref's coming through who are wanting to push up the ladder and do intercounty and so on, fitness levels is important and keeping up to the modern players is difficult but I know of at least 10/12 lads that have decent enough fitness levels that are not intercounty.

We won't get every call and even the fittest ref can't be in the ruck of players and seeing everything, but he'll do his best
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

whatwillbwillb

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2021, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rodger Mona on May 04, 2021, 03:17:51 PM
MR2 please dont take it as i was comparing refs to priests of the 70's.  ;D Absolutely not, i was just remarking on the forums sensitivity, to any statements made regarding refs. thats all. It all adds to the banter after all

One point to make on the whole situation though from my own perspective. Obviously its a thankless job and thats reflected by the now demand we have for refs in the county. But we have now players and managers at club level who now train 4-6 nights a week between gym and s&c sessions and a total shift to a more professional environment. 10 years ago nobody would have seen the huge transformation in our games and the effort it takes to participate at any grade of senior level. There are Irish league teams/players not doing near what gaa clubs/players are doing training wise. So i think its fair when people are asking and raising concerns about the fitness of refs especially at senior level as the reffing needs to be in line with the damands of the modern game. I know from watching games around the county and seeing what goes on, thats not the case in some occasions. Overall we have more good refs than not so good. There are refs who wouldnt get a senior game in other counties due to fitness levels, age and theirimplementation of the rules. Now on the same breathe i would never name these people or try to belittle them individually as i take my hat off for stepping up when no one else does but its defintely an elephant in the room scenario that people arent keen on talking about.

Before i get the "put your name forward before saying that about men out trying their best" comments, let me just say i know myself i would make a horrible ref

No all comments are fine and we've younger ref's coming through who are wanting to push up the ladder and do intercounty and so on, fitness levels is important and keeping up to the modern players is difficult but I know of at least 10/12 lads that have decent enough fitness levels that are not intercounty.

We won't get every call and even the fittest ref can't be in the ruck of players and seeing everything, but he'll do his best

MR2 10/12 lads is just not not enough in a county the size of ours and the number of games to be played in both codes, and yes some younger lads are coming through. However a lot of lads and I do know this fail the written tests regular as well as the bleep test. You referred to it on previous posts, what is the test as there are a few and what is the level that has to be attained. The reason I ask is that lads are committing 4-5 nights a week to play only, referees are paid now and for those who are popular or are naturally good referees walk away at the end of the year with a tidy sum or half yearly, and yes that could mean 30+ games but thats their choice after all. So to be fair clubs and players should expect their officials to be fit enough to see a game through 60 minutes. I remember Ray Matthews, Owen Elliott, Garrett Duffy , Eamon Hasson all training through the winter/christmas to pass a bleep test and exams for years. Where did these lads go all of a sudden, Elliott referees in Derry why not Antrim?

Milltown Row2

We've about 10/12 refs that our intercounty so they have their own standard to meet, the criteria for club refereeing is slightly less in terms of the beep test, we do one and I think inter county do two, their pass rate for rules test again is higher, ours is 85 I think, this year was online, so you fail you can't referee.

As for fitness I said outside of our inter county ref's we've about 10/12 thst are at a decent level of fitness, I'd say better than mine. So that could be over 20/24 refs up to a level of fitness set down by Croke park!

I've done the beep test several years, it's hard, and again I would consider myself fit (for 49)

As god the expenses, what do you recommend? Nothing?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

paddyjohn

Quote from: whatwillbwillb on May 04, 2021, 07:30:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2021, 04:45:24 PM
Quote from: Rodger Mona on May 04, 2021, 03:17:51 PM
MR2 please dont take it as i was comparing refs to priests of the 70's.  ;D Absolutely not, i was just remarking on the forums sensitivity, to any statements made regarding refs. thats all. It all adds to the banter after all

One point to make on the whole situation though from my own perspective. Obviously its a thankless job and thats reflected by the now demand we have for refs in the county. But we have now players and managers at club level who now train 4-6 nights a week between gym and s&c sessions and a total shift to a more professional environment. 10 years ago nobody would have seen the huge transformation in our games and the effort it takes to participate at any grade of senior level. There are Irish league teams/players not doing near what gaa clubs/players are doing training wise. So i think its fair when people are asking and raising concerns about the fitness of refs especially at senior level as the reffing needs to be in line with the damands of the modern game. I know from watching games around the county and seeing what goes on, thats not the case in some occasions. Overall we have more good refs than not so good. There are refs who wouldnt get a senior game in other counties due to fitness levels, age and theirimplementation of the rules. Now on the same breathe i would never name these people or try to belittle them individually as i take my hat off for stepping up when no one else does but its defintely an elephant in the room scenario that people arent keen on talking about.

Before i get the "put your name forward before saying that about men out trying their best" comments, let me just say i know myself i would make a horrible ref

No all comments are fine and we've younger ref's coming through who are wanting to push up the ladder and do intercounty and so on, fitness levels is important and keeping up to the modern players is difficult but I know of at least 10/12 lads that have decent enough fitness levels that are not intercounty.

We won't get every call and even the fittest ref can't be in the ruck of players and seeing everything, but he'll do his best

MR2 10/12 lads is just not not enough in a county the size of ours and the number of games to be played in both codes, and yes some younger lads are coming through. However a lot of lads and I do know this fail the written tests regular as well as the bleep test. You referred to it on previous posts, what is the test as there are a few and what is the level that has to be attained. The reason I ask is that lads are committing 4-5 nights a week to play only, referees are paid now and for those who are popular or are naturally good referees walk away at the end of the year with a tidy sum or half yearly, and yes that could mean 30+ games but thats their choice after all. So to be fair clubs and players should expect their officials to be fit enough to see a game through 60 minutes. I remember Ray Matthews, Owen Elliott, Garrett Duffy , Eamon Hasson all training through the winter/christmas to pass a bleep test and exams for years. Where did these lads go all of a sudden, Elliott referees in Derry why not Antrim?

Eamon Hassan is Derry man so why did he ref in Antrim and not Derry?

Matthews & Duffy left after the "incident" in Ballymena along with Garreth Brown from Glenravel. Herbie McAuley from Glenravel was a decent ref and he left to work away, Yer man Kelly from the Johnnies was a decent ref also. McCotter from Sarsfields, his first name escapes me. We always had a core of decent refs but just not enough and that's going back to the days of Tommy McIntyre, Eugene McHugh, Ger Robinson and Jim Murray. I think the problem is that when they retire there is nothing coming behind them to take over.

whatwillbwillb

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 04, 2021, 08:07:30 PM
We've about 10/12 refs that our intercounty so they have their own standard to meet, the criteria for club refereeing is slightly less in terms of the beep test, we do one and I think inter county do two, their pass rate for rules test again is higher, ours is 85 I think, this year was online, so you fail you can't referee.

As for fitness I said outside of our inter county ref's we've about 10/12 thst are at a decent level of fitness, I'd say better than mine. So that could be over 20/24 refs up to a level of fitness set down by Croke park!

I've done the beep test several years, it's hard, and again I would consider myself fit (for 49)

As god the expenses, what do you recommend? Nothing?
[/b]


Did i say I had an issue with expenses MR2? Wanna read it again? My point is that clubs through their contributions to the county help cover in some way those payments, so the least they should expect is a referee who is fit for purpose, simple enough. There's no cheap shots here!

Milltown Row2

You brought in that the refs make a tidy sum, it's not a wage and any one who's doing it for that reason is doing it for the wrong reason.

Nothing would pay your enough to take abuse.

You say clubs are training 4/5 nights a week ( excessive) and you want a ref to match that? You know majority of refs are retired players? The next time the refs do the bleep test come up, I'll run along side you.

As for reading posts again you obviously read mine completely wrong and got your numbers all mixed up
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

whatwillbwillb

Totes & Paddy would be proud of ya, I know they reads this regularly and actually had to warn lads about posting too! No fear here of a bleep test MR2, always on the defensive, they do make a tidy sum spoke to many a lad who's honest enough to disclose their expenses. Didn't say he/she had to match that again you see what you wanna see, you should maybe listen the odd time, thats your game after all!!! Lol. :D As for numbers all wrong please