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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM

Title: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM
Just read an article in the Atlantic about so-called "rough rides." Apparently there's a plethora of nicknames for the practice of cuffing someone, throwing him in the back of a van, not strapping him in, and then driving around like a maniac to rough the victim up. "Bringing him to the front" is the act of sudden braking to slam him against the front panel, also known as a "screen test." In Philly they call them "nickel rides" after amusement park rides. If they've got that many names for it then it's a good bet that it's a fairly common practice.

For all this talk of condemning the rioting in Baltimore, which you have to do, I feel a bit uncomfortable with this American culture of hero worship for anyone in a uniform. If someone serves in the military you have to refer to them as a "hero" and thank him for his service, even if you know nothing about him or what he did when he was on tour. You don't know if he spent his time as a mechanic in the base or shooting up civilians on the street. And I certainly don't get this habit some people have of saying "I support the police." As far as I'm concerned I'll be grateful for when they do a good job the same way I'm grateful to the waitress who gives good service that I'm paying for.

I'd make an exception maybe for the likes of firemen since they're not generally armed and not in much of a position to abuse any power. But this doctrine of porcine infallibility makes me very uncomfortable and it will be America's undoing if they don't do a better job of policing the policemen.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 08:06:24 AM
If you feel uncomfortable about the heroes in uniform then is it better to leave?
The Baltimore mayor is bang out of order for her comments on allowing rioters space to destroy.
What sort of message does that send? Liquor stores being looted ain't gonna solve issues.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: illdecide on April 28, 2015, 09:14:04 AM
Ye wouldn't get that behaviour in Lurgan ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: brokencrossbar1 on April 28, 2015, 09:19:14 AM
Sounds pretty similar to a lot of the things that happened here for years.  There is also the favourite of lying the guy on the floor and using him as a foot stool.  This is common in many police forces as they have a serious power trip and are dealing in circumstances that the 'rules' go out through the gate.  Not nice.  As far as hero worshiping them well that's people's preference.  The US and the British love their armies so they do and see them as the extension of their 'empires', physical and psychological.  It's just the way of the world and it will never change for as long as there are 'baddies' and 'goodies'.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 09:26:19 AM
Porcine infallibility? That says a lot right there.

Cops do a very important job, and to say you appreciate them the same way you appreciate a good waitress is a stupid comment and beneath you Eamonn, to be fair. If there were no cops on the streets of San Francisco (hey that would be a great name for a TV programme) you'd soon want them back.

Of course there are bad cops, and of course there are bad practices that have a blind eye turned to them because the higher echelons decide it's worth it, or even encourage it, to throw a few digs at a sc**bag they are arresting. But that does not mean that the job they do is any less important or valuable.

As for this whole 'I appreciate the job you do, and Thank you for your service', of course it's another media driven, establishment driven agenda to ensure they get a never ending stream of young lads and girls to join the meat grinder so they can send them to Iraq, Iran, or a plethora of 'stans' at some stage in the future. It makes me sad that the American people, a people I like a lot, cannot see that they are being force fed this shite and lapping it up, with almost every broadcast, TV program and sporting event they go to or see. Major sports in America are particularly bad for this, and I don't believe it's because they really believe it, I think it's because they want to keep the government onside for any decisions they need in the future around stadiums etc.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Whether you agree with it or not, the military is one of the pillars upon which the country is built and as a result is interwoven into pretty much every facet of society.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 28, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
Some very disturbing recent(ish) articles on policing in the U.S. 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/08/12/taken (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/08/12/taken)

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/02/son-deceased)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 28, 2015, 01:09:05 PM
If you have the time, this piece "Don't Talk to Police"  is well worth the watch.  The first speaker, a lawyer, is very engaging, and makes a great case as to why you should never speak to the police.  Scarily, the second speaker, a detective, agrees with everything the lawyer says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 01:52:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 11:35:55 AM
Whether you agree with it or not, the military is one of the pillars upon which the country is built and as a result is interwoven into pretty much every facet of society.

Most of the country is oblivious to the true costs of war as most people don't serve or don't have to serve. It's poor people and people from rural areas with no other options. The "I support the troops" ribbons and the rest is just meaningless lip service to the people who suffer the real costs for shit pay and a veterans' welfare system that is ridiculously inadequate. For a country like the US which has to stick it's nose in all over the world to "protect freedom", there should be some kind of compulsory service. Might be a few less sabre - rattling chicken hawks around then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 01:56:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.

Wonder how it would have all went down had Gore prevailed.  Would the GOP, Fox News, Limbaugh and the rest of the right wing have spent those years beating the war drums and bullying everyone into submission on Iraq and freedom fries and Hans Blix?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 01:56:58 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.

3/4 of my wifes nephews served recently...2 in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq. 2/3 are college graduates from good 4 year colleges and went in as officers (their dad served several tours in Vietnam and I guess that was their motivation) The third barely made it through high school and was in all types of trouble before using the Marines as a way out of a sticky situation.

The men and women who served are under no illusions that the whole thing is a crock. You send them off to fight a war woefully under equipped, then have minimal support systems in place for them when they come back. 

One of my wifes nephews fought in Marjah and commanded a team there. (1) He got shot, but was relatively unscathed due to the body armor he was wearing. When he came back stateside he had to turn in all his equipment, and was "charged" ($$) for damaging military property because his body armor was destroyed.

(2) Same guy was in a Humvee that got hit by a roadside bomb and completely screwed up his back. I dont know the ins and outs, but lets just say the medical treatment he qualified for as a veteran went nowhere near covering his needs.

I douby 1% of people in Ireland know anyone who ever fought in a war.

Id say 90%+ of people in the US know someone who fought in a war in the past 15 years.

I wouldnt call it faux patriotism...I just think the average American views the military through a completely different lens than the average Irish person

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 02:23:49 PM
whitey, the faux patriotism I'm referring to is the gestures and 'recognition days' you see in all the major sports and major corporations. I have no doubt that most individuals have genuine patriotic feelings, but they are at least 'stoked' by the ads, the NFL armed forces weekends, the 'just back from Afghanistan surprises for parents at MLB and NHL etc etc etc'.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:07:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:59:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 02:40:09 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 02:08:04 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 02:06:44 PM
Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda

Of course, and anyone that doesn't agree with you fits into that category.

It must be obvious at this stage, even to you, that many of these incidents are indefensible. Cops make mistakes and errors of judgement everywhere. Pointing this out is not left wing propaganda.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm  referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is viewed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

Tillman was killed by friendly fire.

That more than anything should convey the pointlessness of war.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

I know an Irish-American lad, right wing zealot, proud ex- Marine and otherwise nice guy, who proudly told me how he kicked some Irish cousins out of his house, never to speak to them again,  around the time of the Iraq war build-up for having the nerve to say that US foreign policy may have contributed to 9/11.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:28:29 PM
Possibly, but most were going to be conscripted anyway. Secondly, many  were earning the average industrial wage-they weren't the highly paid superstars of today. Thirdly comparing Wolverhampton Wanderers circa 1939 to 2011 AZ Cardinals is a stretch to say the least
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

He claimed that no one from Ireland could even comprehend his decision, as if it were some sort of higher function. We could point to any number of Irish people who gave up their lives for their country. Presumably his celebrity makes him better than others.

But I prefer to highlight the complete pointlessness of it. He died a young man, killed by those he volunteered to serve.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:17:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:04:05 PM
How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion)

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

I know an Irish-American lad, right wing zealot, proud ex- Marine and otherwise nice guy, who proudly told me how he kicked some Irish cousins out of his house, never to speak to them again,  around the time of the Iraq war build-up for having the nerve to say that US foreign policy may have contributed to 9/11.

Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:37:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

He claimed that no one from Ireland could even comprehend his decision, as if it were some sort of higher function. We could point to any number of Irish people who gave up their lives for their country. Presumably his celebrity makes him better than others.

But I prefer to highlight the complete pointlessness of it. He died a young man, killed by those he volunteered to serve.

I think I've addressed the fact that only Americans could think like that. And I agree about how ironically futile it was to throw away a young life. My point is that the American public are all the time being encouraged to follow his lead, and others, in order to fulfill American foreign policy. That's why I say it's a cynical sort of 'appreciation for your service'.

I think a good example is the cover up of how he died actually. They really didn't want it to come out that not only was it a waste of life, but it was wasted by themselves.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

This is exactly it.

Thank you for your service but now f*ck off for yourself.

(http://cronkitenews.asu.edu/assets/images/11/12/14-vets-graphic-numbers-full.jpg)

Whitey actually emphasised the poor treatment of ex-servicemen earlier.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:59:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

To be honest, I think we've had enough of this tangent. It's not really relevant to the point anymore. You said it simply wouldn't occur, I pointed out that it has occured in the past. Now you speak about Premiership Footballers, so I'll ask about NBA players, any other NFL players, MLB players etc etc.

Pat Tillman did something that was unusual, but it is not representative of all American Athletes, nor is it unique to just Americans.

That's it as far as I'm concerned.

Now as for why your average Joe in the states appears to be so in thrall to the uniform, I still believe it is because he is told to be that way every single where he looks. Even his heroes of the gridiron or the diamond tell him. It would be hard *not* to be with all that going on. And that is the cynicism I refer to, because as we have all pointed out, despite the lip service, the US treats its Vets deplorably.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.
[/quote

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:02:45 PM
Jaysus whitey, we're jumping around like fleas on a blanket here :) You're on about Noraid now? What's that got to do with whether Americans are being brainwashed into a sham of support for their servicemen and women?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:04:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

While I respect the Irish peacekeeping missions you're not seriously making that comparison are you? LOL.  A good few served in the FCA too while you're at it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:06:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

Either way this made for some interesting reading

http://spartacus-educational.com/2WWfootball.htm

Is it the celebrity goes to war element that fascinates you?

Many of our Gaa players are in the army and have served in war zones. The Earlys spring to mind.

Or is it that he turned his back on his big earning potential and planned to risk his life at war for a few years?

That is hardly unique either.

In fairness, I don't like having a go at Pat Tillman per se. I hope it's not coming off as that. I watched Tillman play, and I remember him in ASU. He was an iconic figure in Arizona before he ever went to join the Marines. What he did was extremely principled, and brave. While I question a lot of the US foreign policy, and the reason he found himself in that situation, I don't think I want to question his own personal motivation or bravery. And in terms of sacrifice, what he gave up financially, even if he returned home 100% fine, was a massive statement.

So I'd prefer not to linger on Pat, other than to say that while what he did was definitely brave and noteworthy, plenty of other people have served in Armies around the world having been professional sportsmen or sportstars of note.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:06:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

Please show me an example of  'this complete insistence that you're right all the time'. I am simply making my points like everyone else.

If you disagree with them, fine. But your post above is reads exactly of what you accuse me of.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:09:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:59:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.

I don't think the people who got arms and money from America recognized "Ireland" either-and they seems to me to be the loudest in their condemnation of US foreign policy
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on April 28, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 04:14:47 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 03:38:43 PM
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

As long as other people's kids are lining up to go and die or be hideously maimed, Americans will keep supporting US foreign policy. Because Soviets/Saddam/AL Qaida/ISIS/Ebola are coming to American shores...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:16:17 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

He is from Mayo afaik.

Suggesting that because Noraid existed, it somehow prohibits us from having an opinion on Israel is, even if we didn't support Noraid is........well I'd better not say or MacDanger will get offended.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:17:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:25:57 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:17:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.

Yes, I would stand by that opinion.  Let's just say that I personally know a well known, High profile Sinn fein member who was Stateside before the peace process started up. He is now an Elected representative. Let's just say, I had some very interesting conversations with him
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:28:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

That may be true AZ but the numbers are overwhelming even if you take into account population we are talking over 100 years for the UK and 1 month for the US!!

Of course it isn't just the fault of the police force for all these killings and the Gun Culture accounts for a hell of a lot of death by cop in the US but even still it's enormous!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:29:30 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Is that you Hannity??!!!!?!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on April 28, 2015, 04:32:24 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

I'd say if you trawled through enough stats you'd find that more Cops in the US have been gunned down that the police in the UK, so its no wonder some of the Cops in certain situations are prepared to shot first and ask questions later.

Whilst I can understand that, with that comes an acceptance that the Police have a difficult and dnagerous job to do, so the legislators seemingly turn a blind eye to all indiscretions irrespective if the Cop was in any danger or not and the cops themselves are taking liberties.

There's no easy solution especially when every nut job can get their hands on a gun of one kind or other, legally or otherwise.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 04:59:56 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?

Ah Jaysus were so far into the weeds here we'll never get out

AZ made some accurate statements about the military hoopla which goes on at US sporting events. The point which I tired (unsuccessfully it would seem) to make was when you view this hoopla through the eyes of the fans who attend such events, they would most likely have a different view of the military than say most people in Ireland (who probably wouldn't know a single person who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan) Most would think it's great (or at least he ones I know do)

Pat Tillman is relevant to the conversation, because here you have a real time real life hero who gave up a multi million dollar contract and endorsements to serve his country in an elite special forces unit. AZ Cardinals fans would most likely not  view a tribute to the military as hoopla in any way shape or form





Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:00:32 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Fear, uncertainty & doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:01:54 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Don't mind Trump. He will say anything to get in the news, especially stuff to endear him to the Fox watching tinfoil hat crowd. And Fox, well, what else would they say given the demands of their audience?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:03:16 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

LOL!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2015, 05:10:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:13:36 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.

There is no doubt some of these guys shoot first and ask questions later out of fear. I would imagine some of these neighbourhoods are not places you would want to find yourself so yes it is understandable to a degree. But better resources and training might help.

That and scrapping the NRA and FOX.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

...and Nappies for all!!

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-553ebc9a/turbine/bal-baltimore-riots-looting-cvs-drugstore-20150427/800/800x450)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 05:18:34 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2015, 05:10:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.

Having seen what I have seen and now that I know what I know....I would be all in favor of compulsory military service with no waivers and a separate line item on your pay stub showing a "war tax". Those fvcking idiots may not be as fast to start a war next time around if people truly knew the cost...both human and financial
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...
Title: !!
Post by: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:26:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Nappies for all!!

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-553ebc9a/turbine/bal-baltimore-riots-looting-cvs-drugstore-20150427/800/800x450)

;D Fair enough.

Should be easy enough to ID all those people however.
Title: Re: !!
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:35:02 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

What do you think will happen if the police and the national guard go in guns blazing against Baltimore street gangs?

And what is wrong with sending a representative to that funeral?

Black protests are happening because a tipping point was reached in the killing of unarmed black males, not because of Obama. Obama is irrelevant. The internet and the ubiquitousness of smart phones allowing people to film everything are what is happening. These cases went uninvestigated/whitewashed until recently. Now that is no longer possible because everything hits the news and You Tube and the publicity is emboldening black people to resist, albeit not without being coopted by criminal elements. But go ahead and blame the mighty, evil Obama if you want. What will you right wingers do in two years when he's gone and the other evil incarnate, Hillary, doesn't win. Who will you blame for all of society's ills then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: CSC on April 28, 2015, 05:38:22 PM
Throwing my 2 cents into the argument;

From my experiences with Americans, they are intelligent enough to draw a distinction between foregin policy makers / politicians, and the actual solder, and the sacrifices that solders make to serve the county.

So as big a mistake as Iraq and Vietnam was from a policy / strategy point of view, Americans view the sacrifices that the individual solder makes as the same as WWII in Europe on the beaches and in the Asia Pacific in the islands.

They also understand what war does to a man, i.e. the dehumanization of the enemy and morality, and so tend to respect the physical and physiological demands war places on solders.

So Americans do not think its a double standard when holding politicians accountable for bad leadership / policy, while respecting the solder who defends the policy which significant sacrifices.
Title: Re: !!
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:40:17 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/27/team-obama-to-respond-to-baltimore-rioting-requests-law-enforcement-restraint/
Title: Re: !!
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Title: Re: !!
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Not at all thats not what I'm saying.
Obama is not doing his job as a leader. He is the President. But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should. There is nothing wrong with sending a representative to the funeral if you at the same time tell the rioters to stand down. When you only do one as the leader of a country surely you are implying a message to one side of the argument - whether you intend to or not....
Title: Re: !!
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:53:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:49:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...

Is it only Black people at fault, including and especially Obama?
Not at all thats not what I'm saying.
Obama is not doing his job as a leader. He is the President. But because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should. There is nothing wrong with sending a representative to the funeral if you at the same time tell the rioters to stand down. When you only do one as the leader of a country surely you are implying a message to one side of the argument - whether you intend to or not....

Given that you cannot click on even the link to Breitbart I posted above:

By 9:00 p.m., as fires were breaking out across the city, Hogan revealed during a press conference that that Obama called to thank him for declaring a state of emergency in response to the rioting and asked him to exercise "due restraint."

"I assured him that we were," Hogan explained to the press. "The last thing we want to do is escalate violence. I assured him we would not stand by and allow our city of Baltimore to be taken over by thugs."

Hogan also indicated that Obama revealed that Lynch would visit Baltimore to help de-escalate the violence.

"He said that we need to get control of our streets, and he endorsed the action taken tonight," Hogan explained.

White House officials confirmed to reporters that Obama spoke to Hogan this evening, but declined to share any details of the conversation.

By 9:00 p.m., Lynch also released a lengthy statement condemning the "senseless acts of violence" in Baltimore vowing that the Justice Department "stands ready to provide any assistance that might be helpful."

"As our investigative process continues, I strongly urge every member of the Baltimore community to adhere to the principles of nonviolence," she said, promising to work with Baltimore leaders to "protect the security and civil rights of all residents."

"I will bring the full resources of the Department of Justice to bear in protecting those under threat, investigating wrongdoing, and securing an end to violence," she added.


The highest law enforcement official in the administration not enough for you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Because the AG, his law enforcement representative, has done so and its her job?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

QuoteBut because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

QuoteBut because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

QuoteBut because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

QuoteBut because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.

On the flip side of all that Muppet as a husband and father, looking at these shootings, looking at the riots, the looting, the descent into chaos when either people are pissed off about something or a natural disaster strikes, like a hurricane and there is a shortage of food or water - what choice do I have, faced with all of this? Other than to arm myself and be willing to protect my family?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:26:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:22:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:14:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:05:53 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:02:01 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:56:51 PM
Why can't Obama publicly state it himself??

Did you not already answer that?

QuoteBut because of his colour his is choosing not to stand when he should.

As a leader he should though?
Regardless of colour?

I realise that an entire army of Republicans and their supporters are filling every US vacuum with 'its all Obama's fault' messages, all of the time, for everything. It can be hard to see the wood from the trees with all that noise.

But for me it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if he does or not. Focusing on that is politicking and nothing more. He will probably come out tomorrow and say whatever and then the US media will focus on why it took a day or two. Anything but ask the hard questions.

As an aside, it is hard to see this stat/story as not linked to the same type of problem: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/11/us/school-shootings-cnn-number/index.html)

74 school shootings in 18 months. Wow.

On the flip side of all that Muppet as a husband and father, looking at these shootings, looking at the riots, the looting, the descent into chaos when either people are pissed off about something or a natural disaster strikes, like a hurricane and there is a shortage of food or water - what choice do I have, faced with all of this? Other than to arm myself and be willing to protect my family?

If it was happening outside my door, I think I would agree with you.

But we all know that will only throw fuel on the fire and who knows where it could end up?

We took the gun out of the politics of the 6 counties, someone needs to find a way to do it in The States.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:35:34 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Actually I think I understand you better now on Obama. Rather that it being a politically motivated criticism, you hope it might actually help things, is that right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:36:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
I left NJ right after Hurricane Sandy. I've never felt as helpless as a husband and parent. I was down through Baltimore a few times and never really cared for it. NJ was chaos for Sandy.
I relocated to Seattle and live 10 mins from any town. But there was a school shooting in Seattle late last year. There are constant shootings in the City itself all the time.
We're slowly working on a plan to make it back home to Ireland.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 28, 2015, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.

I'm surprised you didn't take a trip down to "The Block".....a must do for all tourists

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/booze_news/prostitution-and-other-allegations-but-no-police-officer-to-testify/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:56:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 06:46:37 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.

I'm surprised you didn't take a trip down to "The Block".....a must do for all tourists

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/booze_news/prostitution-and-other-allegations-but-no-police-officer-to-testify/

I didn't know that was there! But it was years ago when I was there, it mightn't have existed then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

(http://i1.wp.com/pzfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/baltimore-riots-for.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:20:55 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Yes that ship has sailed, long ago.

The problem is that the NRA constituency sees even the most minor nod towards gun control legislation as a sellout and the beginning of Obama coming for their guns and big government repression of citizens. And the fact that politicians and lobbyists hype this all out of proportion for donations doesn't help either, despite the issue being fairly settled, minor controls aside, at this point.

I've no issue with someone owning a gun, but why they need a combat- level armory is nothing but deluded paranoia, similar to much of the right wing discourse.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 07:16:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 05:05:32 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

(http://i1.wp.com/pzfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/baltimore-riots-for.jpg)

And that proves what?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on April 28, 2015, 09:13:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM
Just read an article in the Atlantic about so-called "rough rides." Apparently there's a plethora of nicknames for the practice of cuffing someone, throwing him in the back of a van, not strapping him in, and then driving around like a maniac to rough the victim up. "Bringing him to the front" is the act of sudden braking to slam him against the front panel, also known as a "screen test." In Philly they call them "nickel rides" after amusement park rides. If they've got that many names for it then it's a good bet that it's a fairly common practice.

For all this talk of condemning the rioting in Baltimore, which you have to do, I feel a bit uncomfortable with this American culture of hero worship for anyone in a uniform. If someone serves in the military you have to refer to them as a "hero" and thank him for his service, even if you know nothing about him or what he did when he was on tour. You don't know if he spent his time as a mechanic in the base or shooting up civilians on the street. And I certainly don't get this habit some people have of saying "I support the police." As far as I'm concerned I'll be grateful for when they do a good job the same way I'm grateful to the waitress who gives good service that I'm paying for.

I'd make an exception maybe for the likes of firemen since they're not generally armed and not in much of a position to abuse any power. But this doctrine of porcine infallibility makes me very uncomfortable and it will be America's undoing if they don't do a better job of policing the policemen.

Did the guy arrested look like he couldn't walk before he was put in the van?
Is there any video of him before this to see what happened to him ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:14:11 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:36:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 06:31:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 06:30:01 PM
Its too late for that now unfortunately.
There is no groups to decommission.
It's real, very real and very scary.

Are you near Baltimore?

I was there a few times. Nice enough in the small centre, I was always told never to walk anywhere else.
I left NJ right after Hurricane Sandy. I've never felt as helpless as a husband and parent. I was down through Baltimore a few times and never really cared for it. NJ was chaos for Sandy.
I relocated to Seattle and live 10 mins from any town. But there was a school shooting in Seattle late last year. There are constant shootings in the City itself all the time.
We're slowly working on a plan to make it back home to Ireland.

Can't blame you for moving back, there's so many shottings around here these days that it doesn't make the news anymore. I just take it for granted that everyone is carrying a weapon. Its sad when I have to tell my 6 year old to stop playing cops and robbers in the playground because I'm afraid of what might happen.
Cops are generally overly aggressive over here but if you witnessed the crap they put up with you might understand why.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:43:06 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

Wouldn't move back if you paid me!

Many more options in the US.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!

You should spend a summer here, it's brutal.A typical summers day is like one if those hot and hazy days that you get in NJ during the summer but its everyday for 6 months. But on the plus side you have lower property taxes, no state or local tax and you get a lot more for your money when buying property and of course the winters are beautiful. If you like heat its the place to live.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

I agree, I hope to have the family back before my eldest is 10 years old. Even if I was to stay in the U.S I would leave Florida.   
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 12:28:27 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 10:17:59 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

I agree, I hope to have the family back before my eldest is 10 years old. Even if I was to stay in the U.S I would leave Florida.

Too many rednecks?  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 12:32:13 AM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:54:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

Know the general area well. Should be able to get a very nice house with pool for a fraction of what Seattle or NJ cost. Weather obviously amazing!

You should spend a summer here, it's brutal.A typical summers day is like one if those hot and hazy days that you get in NJ during the summer but its everyday for 6 months. But on the plus side you have lower property taxes, no state or local tax and you get a lot more for your money when buying property and of course the winters are beautiful. If you like heat its the place to live.

I've spent time there in summer (I've a retired parent there). I love the heat! Like the seasons though too, so I don't know if I could take year around living there, despite the financial advantages. Plus the wife can't stand the place for longer than a few days.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on April 29, 2015, 12:37:11 AM
that will be the last of my Mrs family - he Da and brother are down there his wife and kids so we'll put in a few years in FL, My hope is to keep a house there when we leave and have it to rent out or use ourselves in winter or whatever. I think after 3 years of FL heat we'd be sick of it and Ireland would be appealing (thats the plan anyway).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 29, 2015, 12:37:11 AM
that will be the last of my Mrs family - he Da and brother are down there his wife and kids so we'll put in a few years in FL, My hope is to keep a house there when we leave and have it to rent out or use ourselves in winter or whatever. I think after 3 years of FL heat we'd be sick of it and Ireland would be appealing (thats the plan anyway).

There's a good market for so-called snowbird rentals. In some cases you can make as much renting to them just for the winter as renting to a family all year around (and a lot less hassle too as no kids to wreck the place!).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: FL/MAYO on April 29, 2015, 02:02:32 AM
Plenty of rednecks and snowbirds, most of the snowbirds are heading back up north at the moment. I lived in New York for 8 years and enjoyed it a lot more, so much more to do up there. It will be a good experience to live here for 3 years, by the time you settle in you will be on your way to Ireland.
J70, we have a few wild Donegal men down here so you would be right at home ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on April 29, 2015, 04:24:21 AM
So by the same token, white police officers shooting/choking black men is unequivocal proof of police racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 05:05:04 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM


Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.

And we're off again...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:08:27 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 05:05:04 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM


Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like a Nobel prize winner.

And we're off again...

Aw come on, you enjoy the banter...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on April 29, 2015, 06:38:38 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:56:43 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on April 28, 2015, 09:41:26 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 09:31:51 PM
actually planning on Fort Myers in 3 years or so before making the final jump to Ireland. The Mrs has family there and my work is there too so would work out well

That's funny, I always thought the Seattle area would be a good spot to move to. I hope to be out of here in 3 years, we're moving back also.

I think we'd stay if West Coasters were more like East coasters.... love the area, the outdoor life, the schools are decent, the weather is great but the people would drive you mad with their PC attitude... everything is fine everything is cool.... give me straight talkers any time.

Our move back to Ireland won't be permanent. Get the kids off to Uni and we'll move home base again likely to France. Been on the move now for 10 years and can't see us settling long in one place -the world is too big.

USA is a great place to live for now - but as we get older and the kids get up a bit I think it's not the ideal spot.

Had a good chuckle at that Im in Socal and while I wouldn't say their PC exactly they are very non confrontational or something, can be bizzare.

In saying that tho.. I had a couple come out and shout the odds at me for parking my car in front of their house the other day. The old dude fired insults at me up the street. If I was at home I would have had a good ole barney with them... but over here you never know who or what your getting involved with so I told them it was a public street and walked on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on April 29, 2015, 09:46:48 AM
America....lovely place....unfortunately full of Americans...wouldn't live there for all of Donald Trump's money..
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

But maybe that's just me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
I have lived in the US for 11 out of the last 14 years. I moved back to Ireland for 3 years in there but found myself coming back here due to opportunities. I'm glad I moved back home and got it out of my system but can't see myself moving back again as there are much more opportunities for my kids here. We live in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley) and while it's a lot different than the rest of the U.S. it can still be a crazy place. There are many other positives that will keep me here, much more than the negatives.
The Police do a great service to the community, a job I wouldn't do for any money. It very easy to sit on the other side of a screen and talk about it but none of us know the stress they are under every time they go to work in a society that allows guns to be easily got. The military are put on a pedestal also, some of it because of beliefs but some of it is seeing neighbors kids coming home crippled or in body bags. Every country has their own social problems but in this country its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:20:28 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.

That's the best thing I've seen in ages. This lady is a shining example.
That should be shown on repeat on every channel. Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:20:28 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

I often say "f**k the Democrats".

If only there were a serious,  viable alternative. The GOP is an utter joke at this stage.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

(http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/embedded_full/public/2015/04/27/2015-04-27t214110z1604462212gf10000075265rtrmadp3usa-police-baltimore.JPG?itok=FdKXuRRX)

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Of course he should be prosecuted if they can prove he stole the stuff.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2015, 07:32:52 PM
QuotePresident Obama Condemns Both the Baltimore Riots and the Nation's 'Slow-Rolling Crisis'
By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS and MATT APUZZOAPRIL 28, 2015 New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Obama responded with passion and frustration on Tuesday to the violence that has rocked Baltimore and other cities after the deaths of young black men in confrontations with the police, calling for a period of soul-searching about what he said had become a near-weekly cycle of tragedy.

Speaking from the White House Rose Garden, Mr. Obama condemned the chaos unfolding just 40 miles north of the White House and called for "full transparency and accountability" in a Department of Justice investigation into the death of Freddie Gray, the young black man who died of a spinal cord injury suffered while in police custody.

He said that his thoughts were also with the police officers injured in Monday night's unrest in Baltimore, which he said "underscores that that's a tough job, and we have to keep that in mind."

But in a carefully planned 14-minute statement during a news conference with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, Mr. Obama made clear that he was deeply dismayed not only by the recent unrest in several cities but also by the longstanding yet little-discussed racial and societal forces that have fed it.

"We have seen too many instances of what appears to be police officers interacting with individuals, primarily African-American, often poor, in ways that raise troubling questions," Mr. Obama said. "This has been a slow-rolling crisis. This has been going on for a long time. This is not new, and we shouldn't pretend that it's new."

He spoke as Loretta E. Lynch, the new attorney general, dispatched two of her top deputies to Baltimore to handle the fallout: Vanita Gupta, her civil rights chief, and Ronald L. Davis, her community-policing director. The unrest there and the epidemic Mr. Obama described of troubled relations between white police officers and black citizens have consumed Ms. Lynch's first two days on the job and could define her time in office.

They have also raised difficult and familiar questions for Mr. Obama about whether he and his administration are doing enough to confront the problem, questions made all the more poignant because he is the first African-American to occupy the White House.

The president struggled for balance in his remarks. He pushed back against critics who have said he should be more aggressive in his response to questionable practices by the police, saying: "I can't federalize every police department in the country and force them to retrain."

Mr. Obama also made clear that he had no sympathy for people rioting in the streets, calling them "a handful of people taking advantage of the situation for their own purposes," who should "be treated as criminals."

And he said that law enforcement officials and organizations that represent them must also admit that "there are some police who aren't doing the right thing."

The day after chaos erupted across Baltimore, people who were assembled near a looted CVS drugstore discussed the violence.

But he emphasized that the problem went far beyond the police, who he said are too often deployed to "do the dirty work of containing the problems that arise" in broken urban communities where fathers are absent, drugs dominate and education, jobs and opportunities are nonexistent.

The president had initially avoided commenting on the unrest in Baltimore, allowing only still photographers into the Oval Office on Monday afternoon as he held an unscheduled meeting with Ms. Lynch, thus denying reporters the chance to ask him questions about the chaos then unfurling one state away. The issue dominated Ms. Lynch's first day on the job, and her response to it will be watched closely. As he prepared to swear her in, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. said that Ms. Lynch, the first black woman in the post, was uniquely qualified to bridge the divide between minority neighborhoods and police officers clashing over the use of deadly force. Within hours, Baltimore was in flames.

Ms. Lynch's predecessor, Eric H. Holder Jr., the first black attorney general, was the face of the Obama administration's response to unrest in Ferguson, Mo., last year after a white police officer killed an unarmed black teenager there, and he relished the opportunity to talk about policing and race relations.

It made him a hero of the civil rights movement, but drew sharp criticism from police groups who said the attorney general did not do enough to support them.

Ms. Lynch, a career prosecutor, came into office promising to strike a new tone and planned to visit police groups this summer. But the riots in Baltimore after the death of the 25-year-old Mr. Gray have overtaken that timeline. Almost as soon as she had taken her oath, there were signs that Baltimore was about to erupt.

As mourners gathered for Mr. Gray's funeral, the police announced that three street gangs had pledged to work together to "take out" police officers. The University of Maryland shut down its Baltimore campus early, saying it had been warned that the area could soon turn violent.

At the Justice Department, Ms. Lynch was met by Ms. Gupta and Mr. Davis for a lengthy update on Baltimore. It was her first meeting as attorney general, and it led to the unscheduled trip to the White House to meet with Mr. Obama.

In one meeting on Tuesday, Ms. Lynch told officials that while in Baltimore, they should meet not only Mr. Gray's family but also the officers who were most seriously injured. "When officers get injured in senseless violence, they become victims as well," she said, a Justice Department official told reporters.

As night set in on Monday, chaos reigned on Baltimore's streets. Rioters burned and looted businesses. Others hurled rocks. Police officers were injured, and the police commissioner said his department was outnumbered in its own city.

Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland activated the National Guard, sending hundreds of soldiers into the city after dawn on Tuesday.

Ms. Lynch issued a statement in which she condemned "the senseless acts of violence by some individuals in Baltimore that have resulted in harm to law enforcement officers, destruction of property and a shattering of the peace in the city."

It was a message that Mr. Obama echoed on Tuesday, as he bristled at what he argued was the news media's habit of focusing on dramatic images of brutality and chaos rather than on what have been mostly peaceful protests in Baltimore and other cities.

"One burning building will be looped on television over and over and over again, and thousands of demonstrators who did it the right way, I think, have been lost in the discussion," Mr. Obama said.

He said the that "overwhelming majority" in Baltimore protested peacefully and went back into the streets Tuesday to clean up after "a handful of criminals and thugs who tore up the place." Ms. Lynch, a child of the segregated South and the daughter of a local civil rights leader, has spoken of the need for police officers — because they wield the power — to repair broken relationships. But she has also spoken repeatedly about the police as a force for good in minority neighborhoods.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 29, 2015, 08:05:29 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:20:28 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

Talk radio/Fox News fake outrage and drooling aside,  what does this have to do with Obama?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 29, 2015, 11:09:59 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Stew, you are understandably outraged at what you believe is a crime against people like yourself and you want something done about it. Fair enough.

This is exactly how the protestors feel when they see unarmed men, like themselves, shot. Is that not understandable too?

That is not to endorse the law-breaking looters. TBH the far right must be delighted with the looting as it shines the spotlight away from the real issue.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 11:43:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 29, 2015, 11:09:59 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:16:43 PM
Ah no harm in him at all at all, sure all he did was rob some hard working family of their goods because he saw an opportunity to steal from them!

He is a **** that should be locked up for theft!

Stew, you are understandably outraged at what you believe is a crime against people like yourself and you want something done about it. Fair enough.

This is exactly how the protestors feel when they see unarmed men, like themselves, shot. Is that not understandable too?

That is not to endorse the law-breaking looters. TBH the far right must be delighted with the looting as it shines the spotlight away from the real issue.

Too right muppet. First thing I would think of when someone I don't actually know gets killed by the authorities is which store do I need to loot from.
To be fair CVS have a good range of items. Don't even need the key to the pharmacy cabinets either...smashy smashy!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on April 30, 2015, 01:38:22 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:50:27 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

See, eventually you've come around to my way of thinking ;)

as for police control, you got me there. How far up the chain does it need to go. are their review boards enough? Certainly the people of ferguson didn't think so.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:59:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 30, 2015, 07:46:30 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

But maybe that's just me.

Maybe it is.

So how many incidents will it take to satisfy you then? If black people were being abused / harassed / disproportionately imprisoned on a widespread and regular basis, would that qualify as a race war?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 30, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 30, 2015, 01:38:22 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.

You could probably apply a similar rationale to young men in Derry in the early 1970s
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: guy crouchback on April 30, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on April 30, 2015, 10:01:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:59:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.

More f**king scaremongering!! Sure we may as well build bunkers for ourselves and  prepare for the apocalypse!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 10:53:18 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on April 30, 2015, 08:59:08 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 30, 2015, 01:38:22 AM
So instead of looting shops and burning down these guys could be at home working on an education to pull themselves out of the mess. Yep, go out and be the next Freddy Gray or Rodney King. What will that do only help the haters to hate. Eric Thomas should be brought into talk to these guys 'how bad do you want it'
There's no excuse for some of the shootings but there certainly is no excuse for looting and burning down homes/business.

You could probably apply a similar rationale to young men in Derry in the early 1970s

That's exactly what has hit me here with regard to all those so quick to condemn the black community as a whole.

How quick have our own 'leaders' in the north been to speak out against protests in the past, is it acceptable when its religion just not when its skin colour?

Also hadn't realised CVS was a family run mom and pop store, aside from the fact that the photos in the thread (as far as I can see) prove nothing; has anyone asked to see a receipt?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: theskull1 on April 30, 2015, 11:20:27 AM
Mind being told a story about a lorry load of shop bound chickens stopped and emptied during a hunger strike protest in south Derry. People filled their freezers and ate for months on the fondly called the hunger strike hens. I'm sure it wasn't an isolated incident
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 01:50:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:59:37 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 06:23:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 05:07:28 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:56:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:41:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:07:34 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 07:21:52 PM

And that proves what?

(http://i58.tinypic.com/a2td3b.jpg)

I see three white guys, possibly journalists (looks like a camera in standing lad 's grasp), who look like they are getting pushed around by some black guys.

I ask again, regarding a race war, what does your photo prove?

It shows that given half a chance for civil disobedience violence will be used indiscriminately, especially to get back at 'the man'.
Pushed around is putting it mildly, they're getting a kicking.

Where's Rev Al and friends to condemn this behaviour? What if the above scene was in reverse - you think Sharpton and Jackson would be quiet??? It's bad enough when some drug pusher or store robber dies and they laud them like some Nobel winner.

So nothing to do with a race war then?

Re-read my first sentence. If its still over your head there's nothing I can do for you.

Yeah, I saw it. Protests can turn into mob violence.

What does that have to do with a race war, stoked by Obama or otherwise?

Ok good you saw it...now we're getting somewhere.
Can you tell me if there is a particular group who's protesting and rioting and what the common denominator is amongst them.
Or perhaps you can't fully appreciate rainbows and have no idea what's happening at traffic lights.

Perhaps, but it is pretty clear that one cannot extrapolate from a single incident that a race war is in progress or even pending.

But maybe that's just me.

The states is slowly turning into a cesspit with more and more ghettos. You can't see it coming?
It will make Mad Max seem like a teddy bears tea party.

The problems of cities like Baltimore and Detroit and others have existed for decades, as has the poor relationship between minorities and police. How that translates into a race war for which Obama Is responsible is beyond me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
The main reason these issues appear different now is the rise of smart phones and CCTV.

Anyone who is out of order in public runs the risk of very public scrutiny. In the past is would have been one cop's word against a dead criminal's word. Now we can watch a video and make our own minds up.

TBH I think this sort of thing will get worse for all of us. Anyone who has heard of the high profile GAA official's misfortune can only shudder at where we are going with the rise of the recording devices and youtube etc.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: JoG2 on April 30, 2015, 02:06:51 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on April 30, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?

Crane and Shore are primed and ready
(http://www.boston-legal.org/9-Brains/images/4x9-boston-legal-balcony-4.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

I say fair play to her.

I wonder, however,  how much of the adulation she is receiving is discussing her stated motivation i.e. keeping her black teenage son away from police.

"That's my only son and I don't want him to be a Freddy Gray"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on April 30, 2015, 02:21:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

So the violence from the mother in slapping and punching her is good as she doesnt want him involved in the violence. but the violence from the protesters is bad because emmmm ... And the violence from the police is good because emmmmm....

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on April 30, 2015, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: guy crouchback on April 30, 2015, 09:11:41 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

the coastguard?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bqruw7bCcAAOnih.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 29, 2015, 04:57:09 PM
Quote from: stew on April 29, 2015, 04:20:28 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default)

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?


The Mayor is the epitome of what is wrong with the looney left..................... Hey rioters, we are going to give you a shit load of space to do your thing and this is fine, destroy our city as long as none of you get shot by the big bad police. tr**p should be in jail and Obama is a disgrace to the office of President, fcuk the democrats!

I often say "f**k the Democrats".

If only there were a serious,  viable alternative. The GOP is an utter joke at this stage.

Yes it is, they are the NRA's bitch and they are leaderless and rudderless at this stage.

I cannot imagine Clinton as President, ffs Obamination would do a better job, she used to be a Republican before she me WJC, and now look at the aul dawg!

If ever a country needed more political options it is the good ole US of A.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on April 30, 2015, 05:47:56 PM
If only a few mothers of the bankers and Wall Street gangsters had given them a slap.

They have stole and destroyed more than those currently rioting in Baltimore could ever dream off
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on April 30, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!

So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 11:31:03 PM
It is sad to see some of our country thinking the way they do.

This was written about us:

......Little is cultivated and even less is sown. The problem here is not the quality of the soil but rather the lack of industry on the part of those who should cultivate it. This laziness means that the different types of minerals with which hidden veins of the earth are full are neither mined nor exploited in any way. They do not devote themselves to the manufacture of flax or wool, nor to the practice of any mechanical or mercantile act. Dedicated only to leisure and laziness, this is a truly barbarous people. They depend on their livelihood for animals and they live like animals........

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 30, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
Í presume the previous post was about Mayo!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 30, 2015, 11:45:15 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 30, 2015, 11:43:11 PM
Í presume the previous post was about Mayo!

The Brits didn't come near Mayo back then.  ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographia_Hibernica (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographia_Hibernica)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on April 30, 2015, 11:53:56 PM
Quotehe spent most of this first visit in Waterford and Cork. During his second visit he visited Dublin, Wicklow, Meath, Kildare and, possibly, Athlone and Lough Derg


That explains a lot
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 04:57:18 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 30, 2015, 05:52:09 AM
Quote from: heganboy on April 29, 2015, 04:40:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 29, 2015, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on April 29, 2015, 04:17:18 PM
its a pity we don't have more parents like the mother of that lad in the riots who slapped her kid all the way home.
Maybe the message might get through to people to keep your kids under control and we'd have a far better world.

In case you didn't see it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRlmCf1Kj2o

Woohoo- I knew we could find something to agree on FC!

First step, parents keep their kids in better order.

Now, who's going to keep the police under control?

I'm actually surprised all the loony PC brigade on here weren't condemning that mother for slapping her child.

I'm not, she was black, if she had been a cracker they would have hung her out to dry!!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 05:12:51 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Yeah, whites just destroy city centres when their basketball team loses.

Are whites disproportionately stopped and harassed by police?  How many white Eric Garners,  Freddy Grays, Walter Scotts, Akai Gurleys, Tamir Rices, John Crawfords and Amodou Diallos have been killed by police lately?

We will never know because there is no liberal agenda to be gained by giving these deaths the same amount of pub than their black counterparts!


You are correct, I blame the GOP, the NRA, the Ku Klux Klan and Christian Churches everywhere for the behavior of the albino police force of the USA.

White people getting killed by cops gets no publicity, much better for the media whena black guy gets done!

So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

Eh no! I never suggested that at all at all, merely pointing a fact is all.

I grew up in the north and know all about policemen shooting to kill, the same rules need to apply to all citizens and they are upheld by the vast majority of cops, even the RUC had a few decent men in their ranks!

I do not know what the answer is here, I do know that men should not be dying in police custody and that policemen need to be retrained and go through rigorous training to ensure they have the tools to safely arrest citizens without harm to themselves or the person getting arrested, how you do that remains to be seen.

Looters are the scum of the earth and deserve to be harshly punished, as do cops that shoot citizens dead with no apparent reason other than the color of their sking, not near good enough!




Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:19:00 AM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 06:51:31 PM
Quote from: lfdown2 on April 30, 2015, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: stew on April 30, 2015, 04:30:55 PM
More whites were killed by cops in 2014 than Blacks or hispanics!

Do whites not make up 77% of the population? (wiki) If true it is hardly surprising, nor does it prove much.

I never said it proved anything, I will say that when whites get killed by the cops no one is seen rioting, same goes for the hispanics.

Why do African Americans tend toward rioting in these cases when the other minorities and indeed white people do not? What makes them so special???

Still clinging on to the whole slavery thing and using it as a tool to blame everything and everyone else for their circumstances.
and who doesn't like some five fingered discounts at your local CVS?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 07:22:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

When your talking about disproportionately, you will also know that there is a Disproportionately larger amount of young black men in organized crime gangs. Yes there are also Hispanic, Asian and other gangs and in this area (Bay Area) Hispanics are definitely targeted more by cops whether it be for Gang activity or legal status. Cops shouldn't kill people in their custody but likewise they need to be able to do their jobs without the fear that they could killed over a traffic violation.

One thing for sure there is much more tension in the air everywhere over here. Everyone has to be much more careful about what they say, the way things are worded, even down to the recruitment policies in companies. Looters are thugs whatever color and the Al Sharpens of the world need to cop on and stop defending this sort of stuff.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.

Tell that to my black friend who got a traffic ticket for failing to yield to some invisible pedestrians in a crosswalk.

Tell that to my black friends who get pulled over by the cops nearly every single day for no f***ing reason.

Tell that to my ex's BF who gets pulled over every day while driving his Lexus and is often asked "did you steal this?" (He's a former pro footballer. But as far as the local cops are concerned he's a suspect.)

Tell that to the black dude who keeps getting prosecuted for "trespassing" at the store where he works.

Tell that to the black professor who was arrested while walking up to the front door of his own house in a nice neighbourhood.

QuoteYou have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

Yes, quite. Don't tell me. You're "not racist...?"

QuoteThe fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.


Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.

If only that were true...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius)

How is it so difficult to see the parallels with our own community not so long ago?

Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 08:25:26 AM
I was on a work course in Europe last week and one of the other attendees was an Irish guy who's based in our office in Seattle. We got to chatting about politics/race/religion etc (he loves getting to vent when working outside the States as all the topics taboo in the office). He's a very liberal, openly gay guy but when it came to talking about race relations and incidents like Freddie Gray and Michael Brown, I couldn't believe his position. Whether it's due to poor quality reporting or some other reason, his understanding of the Brown shooting was that Brown had committed an armed robbery and subsequently pointed a gun at the cop Darren Wilson, as a result of which "there wasn't anything dodgy about it at all." I was gobsmacked.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:51:55 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.

Tell that to my black friend who got a traffic ticket for failing to yield to some invisible pedestrians in a crosswalk.

Tell that to my black friends who get pulled over by the cops nearly every single day for no f***ing reason.

Tell that to my ex's GF who gets pulled over every day while driving his Lexus and is often asked "did you steal this?" (He's a former pro footballer. But as far as the local cops are concerned he's a suspect.)

Tell that to the black dude who keeps getting prosecuted for "trespassing" at the store where he works.

Tell that to the black professor who was arrested while walking up to the front door of his own house in a nice neighbourhood.

QuoteYou have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

Yes, quite. Don't tell me. You're "not racist...?"

QuoteThe fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.


Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.

Oh yawn bloody yawn!
I suppose in your mind Freddie Gray was studying Greek Literature at Harvard and volunteered at the Animal Rescue shelter in his spare time.

As for the scenarios you might want to cut and paste a little better. One glaring error in there.
and don't forget to label ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:04 AM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:38 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...


You can just imagine a Thatcherite sitting in their living room in the 1970s drinking tea saying the exact same thing
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 09:19:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:04 AM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.

It is amazing to see some Irish people take the Trevelyan view. Particularly regarding a people who were brought there against their will, in slavery. Just like the Irish were sent in slavery to the Caribbean (http://www.amazon.com/To-Hell-Barbados-Cleansing-Ireland/dp/0863222870). And just like the aristocratic British viewed the Irish in Ireland as lazy, useless vermin, these Irish react in horror when the rodents have the nerve to challenge the foot on their throats. And of course it is 'their fault' for forcing us to put a foot on their throats.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on May 01, 2015, 09:38:36 AM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
+1

I'm shocked at some of the ignorant views posted on here. I must be naive but I always had the idea that as a people we would identify with the underdog or downtrodden due to our history, I was obviously wrong.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on May 01, 2015, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on May 01, 2015, 11:17:32 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 01, 2015, 09:38:36 AM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.


Quote from: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 10:31:31 AM
+1

I'm shocked at some of the ignorant views posted on here. I must be naive but I always had the idea that as a people we would identify with the underdog or downtrodden due to our history, I was obviously wrong.

The amount of mindless, vicious and mostly casual racism at large in this country is not widely understood, I think. And it's not just among the uneducated. I play tennis with group of middle-aged fellas, from many walks of life. Most of them would consider themselves educated. The amount of racist attitude revealed in casual conversation is surprising. The latest example was one of them saying he has specified that when he dies, his death must be certified by two doctors, one of whom must be white.

The good news is that these attitudes appear to be non-existent in the younger generation (at least the educated ones).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 01, 2015, 12:39:59 PM
Having lived in the USA for 7 years, and having travelled quite a bit around the world, I can honestly say that Australia and the USA are the 2 most racist countries that I have visited. How the descendants of immigrants treat fresh immigrants is horrible.

As the saying goes, "The cow soon forgot it was a calf"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 01, 2015, 12:47:03 PM
This is what Donald Rumsfeld had to say about looting in Iraq a few years ago:

"While no one condones looting, on the other hand, one can understand the pent-up feelings that may result from decades of repression and people who have had members of their family killed by that regime, for them to be taking their feelings out on that regime," he said. "And I don't think there's anyone in any of those pictures ... (who wouldn't) accept it as part of the price of getting from a repressed regime to freedom."

Rumsfeld said in the United States there has been looting and riots and they eventually come under control.

"Think what's happened in our cities when we've had riots and problems and looting. Stuff happens!"


http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2003/04/11/Rumsfeld-Looting-is-transition-to-freedom/63821050097983/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY9l73Yo9Pw

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 01:44:01 PM
Quote from: Keyser soze on May 01, 2015, 09:38:36 AM
It always amazes me that so many Irish people, with the history of occupation, enslavement, starvation, persecution, transportation, dispossession etc inflicted on this country over so many years, can be so intolerant of other races and nationalities and exhibit such rabid right wing views.

Some of the comments on here are truly shocking and the accompanying vitriol towards posters who have a contrasting view is completely uncalled for.

Liberalism is pure and true and Republicanism is nasty and evil, so sayeth the majority of the gaaboard so it must be true!!!! :'(
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:33:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 09:00:04 AM
Typo fixed.

All of those scenarios in there are true. I can put you on touch with the ones I know if you want, and I can give you citations for the others.

But of you prefer to just deny that blacks have a hard time in America, and if you prefer the "lalala I can't hear you!" approach then knock yourself out. Plenty of people stateside are in denial about racism so you're hardly alone.

And it's all one way traffic? When are you moving to Oakland?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Denn Forever on May 01, 2015, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or Ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Well the UDA have had tough since  the GFA.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:50:37 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on May 01, 2015, 03:38:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Quote from: east down gael on May 01, 2015, 01:57:36 PM
You're being very dismissive there stew, it's not about liberalism or republicanism, a few of the comments on here have been lazy and crude. A group of people don't get a bad reputation for nothing?? Why are we yapping over a few drug dealers and thieves getting shot? If the police in this or any other country took someone's life in the same circumstances as happened in Baltimore or Ferguson, there would be outrage and rightly so.
     That has nothing to do with political ideologies,it has to do with the right to justice.

Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Well the UDA have had tough since  the GFA.

Besides the tea parties at the Aras :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 04:56:18 PM
Officers charged with murder, misconduct and manslaughter.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 05:05:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:06 AM

Oh, so now your man in Baltimore was a drug dealer and a thief? Well you can't libel the dead so I suppose this post doesn't have to be taken down. Although I think I'm starting to understand where your name comes from.

Ehhh... He was in prison for Drug Dealing. His own Brother-in-law stated that he was a drug dealer still so not sure why your pretending he wasn't or distorting the truth.

It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hid that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 05:05:59 PM
It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hide that.

just so I'm clear what has the length of his rap sheet got to do with this?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 05:54:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 05:08:54 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 05:05:59 PM
It still doesn't give an excuse for killing the man but he did have a long rap sheet don't try to hide that.

just so I'm clear what has the length of his rap sheet got to do with this?

If you put yourself into dangerous positions due to your activities there is a risk factor involved. If he had been shot or killed by another gang you would never have heard of him.

Take a look at this chicago website - have to say it's very impressive. The stats are very telling - now where is the daily news coverage?

http://heyjackass.com/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:03:02 PM
what do you make of the allegations made by another prisoner in the van who said Freddy was trying to injure himself?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:09:32 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:03:02 PM
what do you make of the allegations made by another prisoner in the van who said Freddy was trying to injure himself?

He has since clarified his remarks and said that the police mis-quoted him. He is adamant that Freddy Grey was not trying to injure himself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 01, 2015, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.

Here's the best part. Freddy Grey didn't even do anything illegal or anything wrong. All he did was made eye contact with an officer and took off running. Looks a little odd, but hardly illegal, no grounds for arrest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:08:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

If you run from police then they will believe you are suspicious and they will chase you.
If you don't do anything wrong you won't be arrested in the first place. There would be no issue being stopped by the cops then.
You have to wonder then why certain groups get a bad reputation...it's not for nothing...

The fact the riots are starting over the deaths of drug dealers and thieves is beyond me.

and as for being nervous and suspicious - you say you aren't? hmmmm....right.

Oh yeah, what did Freddie Gray do?

And no, I am not nervous of black men. I've been in NYC for more than a decade straight now, and never, ever have I had any problems. I am careful not to go to certain areas at certain times, but that could apply in any town or city with any race of people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:29:08 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 06:21:29 PM
I am careful not to go to certain areas at certain times, but that could apply in any town or city with any race of people.

and which neighbourhoods would these be?

Those hipster areas are very dangerous at nighttime.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 07:22:38 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
So are you claiming that blacks are NOT disproportionately targeted by cops? That a black mother should be no more worried about her son getting stopped by cops than you or me? Policies like stop and frisk DON'T target blacks? That people are not, consciously or otherwise,  more nervous and suspicious of black men?

When your talking about disproportionately, you will also know that there is a Disproportionately larger amount of young black men in organized crime gangs. Yes there are also Hispanic, Asian and other gangs and in this area (Bay Area) Hispanics are definitely targeted more by cops whether it be for Gang activity or legal status. Cops shouldn't kill people in their custody but likewise they need to be able to do their jobs without the fear that they could killed over a traffic violation.

One thing for sure there is much more tension in the air everywhere over here. Everyone has to be much more careful about what they say, the way things are worded, even down to the recruitment policies in companies. Looters are thugs whatever color and the Al Sharpens of the world need to cop on and stop defending this sort of stuff.

What is the right wing fixation with Al Sharpton? You can't talk to any of them in the US without Sharpton coming up within a minute or two.

Is it fair that blacks are far more likely to go to prison and get longer prison sentences for the same drug offenses as white people?

Young black men are more than 20 times as likely to be killed by police as young white men. Is there any evidence that they're 20 times more likely to commit a crime or do something that warrants being killed by police?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.

So what you're telling me is that he wasn't a drug dealer
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:41:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.
he was hardly an angel Eamonn?
Granted he didn't deserve to die but he wasnt the model citizen you're championing either...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:46:23 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:41:29 PM
he was hardly an angel Eamonn?

Well, he was black, now that you mention it...
Quote
Granted he didn't deserve to die but he wasnt the model citizen you're championing either...

Ah, there's the "but" again. There's always a "but" isn't there?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
now you're twisting. You are suggesting he was lifted for nothing. You are suggesting he was put in to the bus and lifted just for looking at the police. You are suggesting he had a clean record and was a model citizen. His only crime was being black type shit.
You have already documented how you feel about the police and I think you're letting that sway your judgement in this case.

This lad did not deserve to die. No buts or ands about about it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 01, 2015, 06:55:41 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

Excellent post ET; well said.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.

Serious charges too.

Proveable? We will see.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
Quotelook no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

That is fairly clear Whitey - even to people like me who are obviously cognitively challenged. But it is a red herring.

A man went whole into the back of a police vane and came out his spine snapped. No human being deserves that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:26:37 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.

Do a little research my friend.....it's called Cambridge Rindge and Latin School.....Ben Afleck and his brother both attended the same school.

As for it being brilliantly answered......brilliantly answered if you don't know your @rse from your elbow-Lol
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:29:49 PM
True - you don't know your arse from your elbow. Thanks for admitting it, and we can both get on with our lives, as it is clear by your evasion you won't answer the thrust of either of my posts.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:30:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
Quotelook no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

That is fairly clear Whitey - even to people like me who are obviously cognitively challenged. But it is a red herring.

A man went whole into the back of a police vane and came out his spine snapped. No human being deserves that.

You are 100 percent correct and I sincerely hope justice will be served. If you have $20 spare, or get it in the library....read An Invisible Thread.....most people couldn't even comprehend what these inner city kids are faced with growing up

(Boston Marathon Bombing a very sore spot for me for a variety of reasons in case you can't tell)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 07:45:06 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on May 01, 2015, 06:50:22 PM
now you're twisting. You are suggesting he was lifted for nothing. You are suggesting he was put in to the bus and lifted just for looking at the police. You are suggesting he had a clean record and was a model citizen. His only crime was being black type shit.
You have already documented how you feel about the police and I think you're letting that sway your judgement in this case.

This lad did not deserve to die. No buts or ands about about it

More twisting than Chubby Checker.
Any sign of that apology yet Eamonn?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:49:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
It seems that the officers are being charged in this case
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

police forces have to held to the proper standard of law, even if there are dealing with less than model citizens.

Serious charges too.

Proveable? We will see.

Probably not provable, some sort of lesser charge will be proven, in due course.
But it needs to initiate some sort of official audit of people bouncing around in Black Marias.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:01:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:01:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
I said type of emigrant....I did not say that they were the typical emigrant.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:13:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:06:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:01:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:16:51 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

So what is your point? Why the rant about the family of the Boston Bombers? You said "look no further than" them for the type of immigrant "currently being let in"

Are you cognitively challenged or just having a rough day? Re read my post.

I reread it. Evidently I am cognitively challenged,  so you are going to have to spell it out.
I said type of emigrant....I did not say that they were the typical emigrant.

Ok, one family went bad.  So what?



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:34:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 07:45:06 PM
Any sign of that apology yet Eamonn?

Quiet.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

Must be a pain in the neck to have such a short memory. I've highlighted your own racist words in your own post above.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:43:40 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
Brilliantly answered - use the worst case example to tar an entire generation of emigrants, in a country that was founded on waves upon waves of immigration.

Not even you would hold up the US Public Education system as the best money could buy. And good work using my criticisms of Irish immigrants attitudes to segue into a criticism of current immigrants, thus avoiding the point of my post - a man went whole into the back of a police van for a minor charge and came out with a snapped spine. And some people on here - including you (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I'll apologise) think "Good enough for him."

Not good enough for him - not good enough for any human.

Did you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.   

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, but to flippantly dismiss the opinions of Irish immigrants as "wanting to pull up the ladder" behind them is disingenous to day the least

BTW...I used to live about 1/4 mile from where this happened

http://www.dotnews.com/2011/man-critical-following-shooting-nahant-avenue
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:46:00 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:43:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on May 01, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
I haven't been in the US since 97 but I don't think any of those crimes warrant a death sentence?

At least with an execution, you don't linger with a broken back.

Never mind the blatant racism on this thread, the pure callous indifference to the suffering of others is disgraceful. I know it's fun, but just because you're behind a keyboard, there is no need to let your inner sociopath out to play.

A man - MAN in case you were mistaken that it was some poor beast - went into a police van whole, for a minor offense, and came out with his spine snapped. There would be more humanity shown to a dog on the street than he got, either there or here on this board.

And as for the poisonous rationalizations "Well if he was shot by a drug gang, yadda, yadda, yadda..." I would hope that as citizens of such a freedom loving country, you would hold your constabulary to higher standards than gang bangers. The reason some policemen are heroes is that they recognise that higher standard, espouse that standard, live that standard. But it seems to me in the rush to isolate the "Other" in US society, everyone in blue becomes a hero in the fight against this nebulous "Other" - gang members, blacks, terrorists, Muslims, gays, liberals - and the medals are pinned on chests without being earned.

Now you have an entire institutional wing of the state (police forces in the US) incapable of gaining or keeping the trust of a sizable minority, whilst they are applauded for things they have not done and do not represent.

Whilst an entire generation of Irish who went over and sheltered under "Liberty's" banner cannot wait to pull up the ladder behind them and assimilate. And this not a generation on from when a government apparatus on our own island threw lads in the back of vans for rides very similar to the one Freddie Gray got, whilst squaddies who didn't know the Falls from Niagra, did the dying for their masters.

Gore Vidal (i love quoting liberals!!) called it the "United States of Amnesia". It seems like a few contributors have gone native in that country.

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.

  Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in.

Phoney asylum seekers, immediately go on welfare, instead of assimilating they become radicalized, given the best educations money can (or the taxpayer) buy and still not good enough for them.

Mother flees back to wherever she fled from to avoid a shoplifting charge, one daughter pinched for drugs, another daughter charged with forgery, Tamerlan (aka  Speedbump) main suspect in a double homicide.

Are you saying that the Boston Bombers typify the current type of immigrant to the US?

Where did I say that?

Must be a pain in the neck to have such a short memory. I've highlighted your own racist words in your own post above.

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:13:14 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: WhiteyDid you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 08:58:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:06:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:31:46 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 06:26:18 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I think you need to pay a little more attention as you're a little deluded.

Here's the rap sheet. Apology will be accepted when you're ready.



• March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

• March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

• January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

• January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

• December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

• December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

• January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

• September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

• April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

• July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

• March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

• February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

• August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

• August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

• July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Nice try. That's an arrest record, not a conviction record.

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:08:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:13:14 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: WhiteyDid you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.

So you think that everyone who emigrates does that out of a sense of adventure.....you need to get out more

I actually helped out a lad from the North as best I could last year. Lost everything is the crash and as a self employed person qualified for about £30 dole per week if I recall correctly. (Some guy went belly up owing him about £200k)

Wife and 2 kids and about to lose his house back hime, he came out for 3 months to see if he could dig out of a hole, but without transport just couldnt make a go of it. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2015, 08:58:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:11:38 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 01, 2015, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:42:58 AM
Quote from: lfdown2 on May 01, 2015, 08:12:02 AM
Should we kill all drug dealers and thieves?

Let's qualify this - thief in this instance means store robber (referring to Ferguson incident)

hmmmmm...you think is it that tough to choose?

f**k it, sure run a red light, shoot the ****.

And those thieving Bankers, f**k it shoot them all as well...

That's the ticket foxcommander, its back to to good ole days of the wild west.

Here's the best part. Freddy Grey didn't even do anything illegal or anything wrong. All he did was made eye contact with an officer and took off running. Looks a little odd, but hardly illegal, no grounds for arrest.

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:35:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 01, 2015, 09:56:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.
All these charges are that charges nothing else , the weak da and mayor did this to appease the rioters and we will see the final judgement later.


Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:46:00 PM

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.

Oh dear. You really only remember one word out of the whole sentence? Here are your words again:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Do you see it yet? No? Let's try again...

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Got it yet? How are you getting on? No? Still struggling? Allow me:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:04:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

Doing back-breaking to pick food out of the fields to feed your ungrateful face isn't contributing to society?

Changing the sheets on your hotel room bed so you can stay overnight at bargain prices isn't making it a better place?

Working more hours than there are daylight isn't sacrificing for their families?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:06:42 PM

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

So on what grounds was he arrested then? On what charge, exactly? Come on, Matlock. Tell us!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 01, 2015, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2015, 08:58:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?

You really need to read your own posts.

And tell me, if you are such a success, how come you are lecturing us on how dangerous it is where you live,?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:07:48 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM
Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

And what threat, prey tell, did Mr Grey present when cuffed and lying on the floor in the back of that van?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:12:07 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2015, 10:07:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 09:11:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 01, 2015, 08:58:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:41:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 07:02:48 PM

The American experiment worked because in former times emigrants worked hard, learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place.


If only today's immigrants worked long hours doing back-breaking work in the fields for a pittance, or earning so little money in the hospitality or fast food industry that they can barely get by.  Lazy hallions the lot of them. If only they'd go out and work in those bottom-end jobs like so many hard working white Americans do. Grrrr!!!!

You conveniently didnt address the " learned English, assimilated, contributed to society, sacrificed for their families and made it a better place" part of my post.  Congrats

You mean the auld slavery right?

Dont know too many Irish people or immigrants who owned slaves.  Did you pass junior cert history, or did you get a special needs waiver?

You really need to read your own posts.

And tell me, if you are such a success, how come you are lecturing us on how dangerous it is where you live,?

How did you do in English in the Junior Cert? Do you understand the difference between past, current and future tenses?    I pointed out where I USED to live..... 20 years ago ...ie the neighborhood where the guy from Conemara got murdered (and where that lad from the North I helped out last year lived for the 3 months he was out here trying to save his house)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:19:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 08:46:00 PM

Since when is calling someone a cvnt racist. He' as white as you and I are.

Oh dear. You really only remember one word out of the whole sentence? Here are your words again:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Do you see it yet? No? Let's try again...

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Got it yet? How are you getting on? No? Still struggling? Allow me:

"Look no further than that cvnt who's on trial for the Boston Marathon Bombing, and maybe you'll understand what type of emigrants that are currently being let in."

Lazy, dishonest, entitled, drug taking, criminal. I think that would be a good starting point for describing the Tsarnaev family. Nowhere did I mention their race...which from what I can tell is the same as yours and mine. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:23:48 PM
Okay, porcine apologists. Let's hear you justify this. Girl gets drunk, gets abusive, how do you restrain her? Cuff her? Or slam her to the ground face first and break several bones in her face?

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor (http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor)

If the Guards acted like these jack-booted thugs you'd be up in arms.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 10:25:48 PM
It is not hard to understand the stresses of being a officer of the law in a country where there is almost universal availability of guns to those that want one. It is also not difficult to understand the heightened levels of stress in attempting to police areas where the police are in no way seen as welcome and where there is a very real threat of violence towards the police simply because of their occupation.

I do have a few questions.

why is the fact that Gray had a record relevant in his death? I genuinely don't understand why that is continually mentioned.

Where do you live that you are nervous riding the subway at night?


p.s. http://grammarist.com/usage/loose-lose/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.

So when do I get my apology?  I see you decided to change tack and attack whitey instead to deflect the fact that YOU'RE WRONG

see we can all do large font....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:40:57 PM
Quote from: heganboy on May 01, 2015, 10:25:48 PM

why is the fact that Gray had a record relevant in his death? I genuinely don't understand why that is continually mentioned.


I can't understand how you can't understand. Fairly obvious to me.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

Unfortunately the expanded welfare state had has the unintended consqeuence of attracting people to come who dont want to work.......they want to work the system

http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/20144530/2012/11/20/lawmakers-outraged-over-fed-welfare-ebt-push-for-immigrants

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2013/04/case-worker-illegal-aliens-got-food-stamps-by-the-vanload/

http://www.floppingaces.net/2012/04/24/obamas-welfare-nation-ebt-cards-now-being-used-for-bail-money/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:50:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:34:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:05:01 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Is that an admittance that he WAS a drug dealer?

I think he sold a bit more than weed...but that's alright yeah?
You know what? You're absolutely right. As soon as he took one look at that cop, he was a dead man and rightly so. You win.

So when do I get my apology?  I see you decided to change tack and attack whitey instead to deflect the fact that YOU'RE WRONG

see we can all do large font....

What apology?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:55:12 PM

Where do you live that you are nervous riding the subway at night?


p.s. http://grammarist.com/usage/loose-lose/
[/quote]

One of biggest Irish enclaves in Boston is Adams Village in Dorchester. Great neighborhood but you have to ride the Red Line to get there. Havent lived there for close to 20 years, but you had to be very cautious rising at night.....

Looks like not too much has changed

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/14/teen-charged-in-crime-spree-near-red-line-stations/

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/05/31/fights_break_out_at_carson_beach/

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/01/04/police-use-iphone-tracking-app-find-and-arrest-suspected-teenage-robbers/qFTS5YRZF8yIZVaWU9IlHN/story.html
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 10:58:37 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 01, 2015, 03:29:11 PM
Let's stand up for the rights of drug dealers and violent robbers.  :o

Pay attention.

Freddy Grey was not a drug dealer.

Freddy Grey was not a violent robber.

His offense was to look at a police officer, and he paid with his life. This is the kind of thing that went on in Nazi death camps, not what you expect of the forces of law and order in a country that preposterously claims to be a beacon of freedom in the world.

But in your eyes he was black, so that makes him guilty of... something or other. Yours is the George Zimmerman approach, the same racist attitude that the right spews every day towards Obama. It's the attitude of "I think the black guy's up to no good."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

An apology for saying this before you corrected yourself by saying he was dealing.

as Muck Savage pointed out you've just lost credibility
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 01, 2015, 11:02:14 PM
Apparently, in the eyes of some people here, having the opinion that cops shouldn't murder the people they're employed to protect makes you "a left wing nut". I just give up altogether.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:24:45 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:06:16 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:06:42 PM

Next thing you'll be telling us is Al Capone was a nice lad only filed his taxes wrong.

Dude, he was caught multiple times with illegal substances on him, sometimes to distribute (Sell/Deal). He was know to the cops because of this, they meet him, he looks at them, he runs - Not in the least suspicious? Enough reason to chase?

It not enough reason to kill the man but don't try to make this guy out to be a guy who never did anything wrong, you loose all credibility.

So on what grounds was he arrested then? On what charge, exactly? Come on, Matlock. Tell us!

First you say he was't a dealer, then you say he sold a "wee" bit of weed. Now your asking why a known drug dealer, who just ran from the cops for no reason was arrested. Your all over the place man, maybe they needed to do a cavity search.

My point is your making a known Drug dealer out to be a Saint when he's not, I say again he didn't deserve to die but do pretend he was a saint.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:35:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:23:48 PM
Okay, porcine apologists. Let's hear you justify this. Girl gets drunk, gets abusive, how do you restrain her? Cuff her? Or slam her to the ground face first and break several bones in her face?

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor (http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2015/05/01/body-cameras-capture-bart-cop-slamming-woman-face-first-into-floor)

If the Guards acted like these jack-booted thugs you'd be up in arms.

And she was WHITE - I'm heading to the City now, lets loot the shops around Market and O'Farrell tonight

What should we do Eamonn, abolish the Police force and let everyone police themselves?
Lets see what happens in Oakland in a few weeks if the Dubs win the NBA title...... Lets see what excuses are used then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 11:47:45 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:35:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?

You're right it is double standards but tbf, the guys who uphold the law have to be held to higher standards than the sc**bag you're talking about. From what I've read on this (and it's not that extensive) the story isn't that the cops were in some way scared for their safety in this case?

I get what you're saying (or at least what I think you're saying) that the cops in these type of situations (albeit not this one) shoot because they (rightly or wrongly) fear for their lives. And that has a certain logic to it when viewed from their side of things. But when viewed from the other side (non-white who may or may not have broken the law), it's basically an attack by the state based on your skin colour.  How to reconcile those two views is another matter,  it probably comes down to the acceptance of guns in American culture, the more people who have guns, the more likely someone is to get shot.

For me, the parallels with the British army / RUC in the north believing every second Catholic was an IRA gunman are hard to escape.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 01, 2015, 11:56:29 PM
So maybe we should just have black cops police the black neighborhoods and white cops police the white neighborhoods.  That would solve everything
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 12:17:49 AM
Gil Scot Heron summed a lot up in this poem

Whitey On The Moon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtBy_ppG4hY
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 04:45:11 AM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!

Ain't that the truth...bleedin' heart liberals.
Drug dealers are scumbags. end of story. I don't care what colour they are.
ditto violent thieves.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:28:15 AM
Here's a sample of life in what conservatives call "post racial America":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:32:45 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 11:35:42 PM
What should we do Eamonn, abolish the Police force and let everyone police themselves?

Of course. The only alternative to bloodthirsty paramilitary cops shooting all around them is to abolish the police and let us live in a Mad Max environment. As is the case in the black-and-white binary world of the conservative mind, it has to be all or nothing. There's no happy medium. There's no such thing as police being professional or obeying the law while upholding it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 02, 2015, 06:34:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 04:45:11 AM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:23:03 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on May 01, 2015, 09:14:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 08:38:43 PM
I see your Freddy Grey's rap sheet and I raise you the killer cops' rap sheets.

Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. is charged with second-degree depraved heart murder, involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, manslaughter by vehicle and misconduct in office.

Officer William G. Porter is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Lt. Brian W. Rice is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Edward M. Nero is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Officer Garrett E. Miller is charged with second-degree assault, misconduct in office and false imprisonment.

Sgt. Alicia D. White is charged with involuntary manslaughter, second-degree assault and misconduct in office.

Bit more serious than selling a bit of weed, wouldn't you say?

Two pages back you are claiming he wasn't a dealer, now he's selling stuff - what is he??

Yes these are farm more serious crimes, and I hope brought to Justice if true.

Stick around muck savage, you aint seen nothing yet with the left wing nuts on here!

Ain't that the truth...bleedin' heart liberals.
Drug dealers are scumbags. end of story. I don't care what colour they are.
ditto violent thieves.

Thats all well and good, but the likes of gallwhatever and wee Eamon on here have you pegged as an idiot, right wing uncaring piece of shite, they complicate the fact that these guys they hold up are dope dealing mothafuckas or thugs that beat and steal for a living, guess what................... If you do neither you will have nothing to worry about regardless of race, color or creed!

Liberals like these gentlemen are accountable for nothing, they are apologists for the lazy and the inept and they throw dirt and twist the words of people who call a spade a spade, in all my time on here that Gallsman is the worst of the worst, the king sewer rat, he spews liberal bile and is the boards leading moral coward in my humble opinion!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 02, 2015, 06:38:03 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.

This is what I hate about you c***ts! Why cant you actually say what you mean, that right wingers are racist scumbags!

Stop effing around and say what you mean  for the love of all that is holy!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 07:23:37 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:32:45 AM

There's no happy medium.

Do you mean that you can't be SORT OF a drug dealer or SORT OF a violent thief.  ???

Keep making excuses for the ignorant.

You still haven't said when you are moving to Oakland to live in the ghettos. Such fancy talk from your ivory tower


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:29:18 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 02, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 01, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on May 01, 2015, 10:21:52 PM
So what did you mean by "the type of emigrants that are currently being let in?"

Im referring to their moral character, not the color of their skin.

It's just that when you say "most of the emigrants that are being allowed in now" I thought you were referring to their place of origin, which in most cases today means south of the border, which means having darker skin.

That's a different discussion entirely.

I was referring to people who are coming here LEGALLY....hence my use of the term "let in"......and then going on welfare, as opposed to previous generations who came LEGALLY and worked their way into the middle class. 

When I came, I had to sign a form that stated I was ineligible for any form of welfare.

(Of the 3 examples I gave on the abuse of welfare, I did used one example of illegals abusing the system, but that example was used to prove that despite what Democrats will tell you, immigrants DO  in fact get welfare)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

I know you play fast and loose with logic but given at no point when calling you out on your racism did I reference the cops in any way, I'm not sure how you think I've drawn that conclusion.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 02, 2015, 11:52:43 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

At least Stew can acknowledge a point. In fact I think Stew half agrees with most points, but feels obliged to attack what he thinks are 'liberals'. The polarised view of the world in the US (them and us) is a very hard box to think outside of.

The others can't make a coherent argument between them. They just rant idiotically. In fact they make the case against themselves better than anyone else.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: maigheo on May 02, 2015, 12:12:42 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.
Give it a rest GHD.Go start another thread about this subject and rant away to your hearts desire
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 02, 2015, 01:26:59 PM
Quote from: give her dixie on May 02, 2015, 10:23:10 AM
No matter what crimes these people commit in the USA, or no matter how much drugs they sell, or whatever country they came from, they will never scratch the surface of crimes committed by the US Government, or the mass murderers dressed up as heroes returning from various invasions and wars in other countries.

I'm sure the citizens of France, along with the poor bastards who were in the concentration camps would disagree with you on this point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

It does kinda F*** up the argument.
Or maybe they are uncle toms.

I see gall is calling names...what age is he?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on May 02, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
Quote from: muppet on May 02, 2015, 11:52:43 AM
In fact I think Stew half agrees with most points,

The others can't make a coherent argument between them. They just rant idiotically. In fact they make the case against themselves better than anyone else.

I was wondering when you were going to stick your beak in...not like you to miss an opportunity to dish out your infinite wisdom on every f****** subject.

So you are now a mindreader as well Muppet? Or just want to talk for other people instead and what they *might* think...

If you want to read back on this thread I think its Eamonn who's had the flimsy case...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 09:54:33 PM
It's not rocket science, the police should go out and arrest drug dealers and  the like, if they have been committing crimes. Then should then bring them to the station promptly and charge them, not bounce them around in a van for an hour.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 12:06:26 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 02, 2015, 09:54:33 PM
It's not rocket science, the police should go out and arrest drug dealers and  the like, if they have been committing crimes. Then should then bring them to the station promptly and charge them, not bounce them around in a van for an hour.

Why is this opinion considered unreasonable or lily-livered pinko thinking?

How is killing the arrestee even arguable?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

You can be prejudiced towards people of the same race, especially when you're probably getting abused by some of them for being a black representative of a police force with a poor relationship with the community. You can embrace a institutional ethos that treats young males of your own race with heightened suspicion and brutality.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:46:32 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 01, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 01, 2015, 08:13:14 PM
Ok, one family went bad.  So what?

Not that previous generations of immigrants were all upstanding citizens. I think that the US should have banned immigration from Donegal after Mad Dog Coll. 

Quote from: WhiteyDid you ever think the attitudes of Irish Immigrants may be formed by the fact that they actually live here and deal with this stuff every day.

You have the luxury of expressing your views from 3,000 miles away. You dont have to live in a dodgy neighborhood or ride the subway late at night.  I think you said yourself that you hadnt been here since 1987.

You don't have to either, you actually chose to move there.

Was thinking of Mr Coll myself!

And what of all those ethnic organized crime groups?

Or the Irish draft riots and black lynchings in NYC during the Civil war.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 03, 2015, 12:52:13 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:35:14 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on May 01, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
Quote from: stew on May 01, 2015, 09:13:24 PM

Really, so this lad catches the eye of a cop, has prior form and decides to do a runner but it is simply 'a little odd'  ;)

I just had lunch today with a cop who lost his best friend in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin not so long ago, his 21 year old friend was on his first day on the job in a cop car on his own, a few hours into his shift he was a first responder to a robbery and drew his gun but waited until the perp fired before firing instead of shooting first, result.................. He died and he killed the sc**bag who killed him, some of you bies would do well to walk in the shoes of a cop and see how you would react when the scum of the earth starts coming at you!

This guy wasn't "coming at" the cops

Your right, the lad I am talking about was said to be afraid of ending up crucified on CNN and MSNBC and decided to wait to shoot until he was shot at................... This made the news for 24 hours.............Locally, double standard here surely?

Where is the double standard?

The suspect was killed. He did not escape justice.

And I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid if a cop had shot an armed suspect in the midst of a robbery. Happens every day.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:20:35 PM
I see a cop was shot in the head in New York yesterday. The 5th NYPD officer shot in the past 5 months. Reports that the police are going to start burning buildings in Time Square as as of yet unconfirmed.

Obviously I am being a smart arse, but this is the report. Every black man in America should be cursing this f**king idiot. This is exactly the sort of thing that cops point to when people rightly call them on over aggressive policing.

http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/ (http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 07:29:10 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:20:35 PM
I see a cop was shot in the head in New York yesterday. The 5th NYPD officer shot in the past 5 months. Reports that the police are going to start burning buildings in Time Square as as of yet unconfirmed.

Obviously I am being a smart arse, but this is the report. Every black man in America should be cursing this f**king idiot. This is exactly the sort of thing that cops point to when people rightly call them on over aggressive policing.

http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/ (http://pix11.com/2015/05/02/police-officer-shot-in-queens-village/)

Everyone everywhere should be cursing the f**king idiot. He is a lowlife sc**bag and thankfully they seem to have caught him and he will face justice properly.

Hopefully Officer Moore makes a full recovery.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:32:09 PM
I mean in the context of what we are talking about here. The reason why some cops feel like they can shoot black men indiscriminately/feel nervous or threatened when dealing with 'suspicious' black men (delete as applicable) is precisely this. It's contributing to the whole vicious circle over there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 03, 2015, 07:38:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 07:32:09 PM
I mean in the context of what we are talking about here. The reason why some cops feel like they can shoot black men indiscriminately/feel nervous or threatened when dealing with 'suspicious' black men (delete as applicable) is precisely this. It's contributing to the whole vicious circle over there.

I understand your point, but I think they are in the wrong job if they think they can just shoot first and and ask questions later. That is simply a return to The Wild West. I notice in some of the more extreme cases of cops shooting black men, where it is subsequently shown there was little or no threat, the cop is on his own. If things are so dangerous wouldn't it be better to have them working in pairs?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 03, 2015, 07:55:21 PM
"In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do."

Full article:

QuoteOnly justice and equality will fix America's race problem

BY GARY YOUNGE

On November 26, 2007, Brandon Moore, an unarmed 16-year-old, was shot in the back while running away from a security guard in Detroit. The guard made it look like sport. "[He] put one arm on top of the other arm and started aiming at us," Brandon's brother John Henry, who was with him at the time, told me. "Brandon wasn't involved in anything. He was the last one to take off running, I guess." The shooter was an off-duty policeman with a history of brutality. Sacked from the force after he was involved in a fatal hit-and-run accident while drunk-driving, he was reinstated a few years later on appeal. He went on to shoot dead an armed man in a neighbourhood dispute, and shot and injured his wife in a domestic fracas.

The story got a paragraph in Detroit's two daily newspapers. Neither even bothered to print Brandon Moore's name. The policeman was reassigned to a traffic unit until he was cleared by an "investigation". The cold-blooded killing of Walter Scott, who was shot eight times in the back as he ran away from a policeman in North Charleston, South Carolina, is not news in the conventional sense. Such shootings are neither rare nor, to those who have been paying attention, surprising. Sadly, they are all too common. It is news because, thanks to the video footage, we have incontrovertible evidence at a moment when public consciousness has been heightened and focused on this very issue. While in this case the policeman involved has been fired and charged, such a degree of proof is no guarantee of justice. There was video evidence of police choking Eric Garner to death in Staten Island while he protested "I can't breathe", and his killers were acquitted; there was video of evidence of Rodney King's beating in Los Angeles, and his assailants walked free. But in an era of 24-hour news and social media, video guarantees attention.

Black people have been dying for this kind of attention for years. Michael Brown died for it; Kajieme Powell died for it; Tamir Rice died for it ; Justus Howell died for it. The roll call could go on — and until something fundamental changes, not just with American policing but in the American psyche, it will get longer. The fact that Scott was killed on the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's assassination makes stark the distinction between the reality of the post-civil rights era and pretensions to a post-racial era. The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. You wouldn't have a hashtag that said #blackmencanplaybasketball or #blackmusicmatters, because only the most deluded would ever deny that. But the reason #blacklivesmatter has resonated is because it succinctly summarises the current contradictions. We can celebrate a black president, black professors, black astrophysicists and black tennis players all we want. But the issue of the sanctity of black life has still not been settled .

Brutality of the police

The slogan of the day, born from a Twitter hashtag, is Blacklivesmatter. That says a lot. And so Scott's murder stands not simply as an outrageous and horrific incident in its own right but as an emblem for all the Brandon Moores who have gone down in a hail of bullets to deafening silence; a proxy for a reign of racial terror that has not been removed since the civil rights era but merely refined; a harsh illustration of a system that both systemically criminalises working-class black communities and, on occasion, cavalierly condemns those who live in them to summary execution. It lends a name and a moving image to those who have perished unnamed and unseen, and whose deaths could not move the nation's conscience.

"I have witnessed and endured the brutality of the police many more times than once — but, of course, I cannot prove it," wrote James Baldwin in 1966, in A Report from Occupied Territory . "I cannot prove it because the Police Department investigates itself, quite as though it were answerable only to itself. But it cannot be allowed to be answerable only to itself. It must be made to answer to the community which pays it, and which it is legally sworn to protect, and if African Americans are not a part of the American community, then all of the American professions are a fraud." The fact that the country is at least recognising this issue is heartening. But what it took to get it there is sickening. For this is the standard of proof necessary to force a reckoning with contemporary racism.

This is what it takes to thwart a conversation about the ostensible shortcomings in black culture, from parenting to rap music, which — some claim — make such policing inevitable and instead concentrate on the pathology of state violence. If all young black men bought a belt and pulled their trousers up tomorrow, they still wouldn't be able to outrun a trigger-happy cop's bullet. The bar is so high, and the capacity for empathy so low, that apparently no amount of statistics and personal testimony can convince a critical mass of white Americans that the problem is not African-Americans claiming victim hood but their being victimised.

In the absence of such evidence, black people have to make the case for not being killed — no criminal record, no questionable acquaintances, no drugs or alcohol in your lifeless body, A-grade students and devoted fathers. If you want the nation to be outraged at your murder, be sure to have led an impeccable life. Nothing less will do. In The Audacity of Hope, US President Barack Obama recalls sitting in the Illinois senate with a white legislator watching a black colleague (whom he refers to as John Doe) explain why eliminating a certain programme was racist. "You know what the problem is with John," the white senator asked him. "Whenever I hear him, he makes me feel more white." "[His] comment was instructive," Obama reflected. "Rightly or wrongly, white guilt has largely exhausted itself in America."

Guilt, of any racial variety, never achieved much anyhow (even if it did, there are therapists for that). It won't close the pay gap, the unemployment gap, the wealth gap or the discrepancy between black and white incarceration. It won't bring back Walter Scott, Trayvon Martin or Brandon Moore. It's not guilt that people are demanding but justice and equality. Only then will a tragic incident such as this be news for the right reason — because it is both rare and unexpected, not because someone was in the right place at the right time with a Samsung and a conscience.

— Guardian News & Media Ltd
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 03, 2015, 09:04:07 PM
Eamonn, are people saying that all cops are racist, and targetting blacks? Or are they saying they are over zealous in their shoot to kill policy on black suspects, or black criminals that are known to them?

I can't accept that all cops are racist, even the black ones, nor can I accept that a large number of them are.

What I can accept is that a large number of cops would rather shoot a suspect if they felt in the slightest threatened of their own life. In many ways I can sympathise with that view, but it's not really a good outlook for someone who is supposed to 'protect and serve'.

Obviously I can also accept that there are a small number of cops who would just look for any excuse to shoot a black suspect, but I think they are in the minority.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 04, 2015, 12:09:18 AM
It's not as simple as are they racist or not, AZ.  A lot of the time cops are put into neighbourhoods that they have no connection to or understanding of.

I lived in East Harlem for 8 years, and one night, July 4th, I was having a party in my apartment.  Coming back from the shops, several cops pushed in behind me and got into the elevator, without asking.  They left one of their buddies behind.  These guys, it turned out, were not long out of the academy, and were from Long Island.  They had never set foot in the neighbourhood until that night, and were there for the overtime, it being Independence Day.  As the lift was going up, they were laughing about how they had thrown the guy left behind "to the wolves."  They kept asking why I lived here; they were amazed that a white guy would live in this part of the city.  They may have been decent enough types, but they were completely inappropriate for the neighbourhood.  They clearly had no experience of minority-white neighbourhoods, and going by their chat, not much experience of being around black/hispanic people.

I've no reason to think these guys were particularly racist, but given how nervous they were, I wouldn't have liked to see them have to handle any tense situation that night.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 09:54:11 PM
I know it's not as simple as that Jell, I'm just asking what the perception is among the people rioting or protesting against the police. My take on it is that the various PDs in the states are not inherently racist, but the societal issues over there are leading to a lot of tense scenarios where police officers are shooting unnecessarily, partly out of fear for themselves.

Other officers I'm sure are racist and are delighted to have a chance to act out on it, but I don't think that number is in any way high. That's why I'm curious about what the protestors really believe.

That cop in New York died by the way. An Irish American as well, not unusually in the NYPD. RIP to him. His name is Brian Moore.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 09:54:11 PM
I know it's not as simple as that Jell, I'm just asking what the perception is among the people rioting or protesting against the police. My take on it is that the various PDs in the states are not inherently racist, but the societal issues over there are leading to a lot of tense scenarios where police officers are shooting unnecessarily, partly out of fear for themselves.

Other officers I'm sure are racist and are delighted to have a chance to act out on it, but I don't think that number is in any way high. That's why I'm curious about what the protestors really believe.

That cop in New York died by the way. An Irish American as well, not unusually in the NYPD. RIP to him. His name is Brian Moore.

Yes, its all over the news right now in NYC about Officer Moore.

As for what is driving the protests... surely it is the experience of the black communities at the hands of the police? The city of Baltimore, for example, has had to dish out millions of dollars in compensation to victims of police brutality in the past few years. And whether or not policies such as Stop and Frisk help drive down crime in poor neighbourhoods, they also antagonize and embitter the people who can't go about their lives without being repeatedly stopped and hassled by police for no reason other than their skin colour. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2015, 10:20:16 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

Read the Blindside or The Invisible Thread and much will be revealed
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

But the cops, who get plenty of leeway if you talk to any of them, HAVE to follow the rules as agents of the law, surely?

And of course policies such as Stop and Frisk are based around poor neighbourhoods, which, in many US cities, happen to be predominantly black. But where does that leave the majority of black people who are law-abiding, yet are continually harrassed by cops when they've done nothing? Or see people they know go down for far more severe sentences than white people get for the same crimes?

I don't know what the answer is. But what is happening isn't working.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2015, 10:21:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 04, 2015, 10:14:05 PM
But *why* do the police have policies like that? Especially given the large amount of black cops in Baltimore. You have to think it's a larger issue than just the police like to pick on black people.

There has to be a holistic view of this, and it has to try and take the gun crime away from the streets as much as possible. If less criminals own guns, less cops would feel the need to brutalise or shoot suspects, in my view at least.

It would take time of course, but berating the cops while expecting them to keep law and order is just not going to be productive, in an atmosphere where they feel like they are basically at war with criminals, and they are the only ones expected to follow rules. It's a recipe for disaster.

But the cops, who get plenty of leeway if you talk to any of them, HAVE to follow the rules as agents of the law, surely?

And of course policies such as Stop and Frisk are based around poor neighbourhoods, which, in many US cities, happen to be predominantly black. But where does that leave the majority of black people who are law-abiding, yet are continually harrassed by cops when they've done nothing? Or see people they know go down for far more severe sentences than white people get for the same crimes?

I don't know what the answer is. But what is happening isn't working.

Of course they have to follow the rules, but that's my point. The frustration level must be huge when they are constrained and the opposition isn't. If the rules break down though, we'll be back to Wyatt Earp.

The bit in bold, I think we all agree :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 06, 2015, 01:57:55 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

What is a resist c***ts?

Tit, show me were I have been racist not resist you abomination of a human being!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 06, 2015, 02:04:02 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

I never said that they were there for the taking and I resist being called a resist you absolute tosser!!! )


Prove me a racist, I f**king dare ya you useless bastard!!

Ya cant because I am anything but!

You liberal piece of shite, prove me a racist Gallsman!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 08, 2015, 01:45:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.


The f**k he does, he is, apart from a certain Kerryman, the most ignorant hoor on this board!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on May 08, 2015, 02:28:07 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 10:43:09 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 02, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2015, 08:41:54 AM
Fine stew, let me be the first to call you on it. You and fox and whitey and all the others here are disgracefully resist c***ts, whether you admit it or not.

Nobody is claiming Freddie Gray or Michael Brown or any of the others were saints. That does not mean their lives were there for the cops to do whatever the f**k they pleased with them.

LOL...so were the 6 police officers charged last night rascist too?

You do realize that 3/6 were in fact black, including the guy facing the most serious charges.

I know you play fast and loose with logic but given at no point when calling you out on your racism did I reference the cops in any way, I'm not sure how you think I've drawn that conclusion.

Evidence of alleged racism please Gallbladder!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: LeoMc on May 21, 2015, 01:52:20 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83056000/jpg/_83056422_027260243.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 21, 2015, 01:56:14 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 21, 2015, 01:52:20 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83056000/jpg/_83056422_027260243.jpg)

For some reason that photo reminds me of Junior football.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2015, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: LeoMc on May 21, 2015, 01:52:20 PM
At least Texan law officials can handle an arrest without killing anyone or inflaming the situation. 

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/media/images/83056000/jpg/_83056422_027260243.jpg)

I thought a few of the bikers WERE killed by the cops?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 21, 2015, 04:55:20 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on May 21, 2015, 06:11:44 PM
i think the surprising thing about gun crime in the US is that there is not more. when there are 89 guns per 100 (highest in the world)people in the country, and the incarceration rate is the highest in the world, with over 2.2 million prisoners you would expect this to happen more...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 21, 2015, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2015, 04:55:20 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.

Was reading about her.

Very sad.  :'(
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on May 21, 2015, 06:47:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 21, 2015, 06:24:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 21, 2015, 04:55:20 PM
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/Police-Officer-Shot-304450711.html?device=tablet&c=y

Female officer whose premature baby was due to be released from the hospital today, gunned down in Nebraska executing an arrest warrant.

Was reading about her.

Very sad.  :'(

Very sad indeed.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on May 22, 2015, 03:20:05 AM
Really shocking and very sad

Highlights another issue in the US that affects many many people, and that is lack of Maternity Leave for mothers. This poor woman was working after giving birth because she wanted to spend her vacation time (or scant maternity leave) with her baby and not use it up while her baby was in hospital.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 01, 2015, 02:10:16 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on June 01, 2015, 06:42:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2015, 02:10:16 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.
.

That's f**king terrifying.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 01, 2015, 08:27:44 AM
Loopers. Why were you thinking of me??. Oh I get in now. I didn't realise it was Phoenix. Not surprised.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: DuffleKing on June 01, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 01, 2015, 08:27:44 AM
Loopers. Why were you thinking of me??.

Islamophob
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 01, 2015, 09:09:50 AM
Is that like my Centra key fob that gets me points when I spend money?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 01, 2015, 04:09:46 PM
pure hatred right there.... too many extremists in this country.
I'm a big fan of the police. I'm happy they are on the streets out here. They get a bad rep but for the most part they do a great job. They can be heavy handed at times but they have a saying better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Given the same position with my life on the line,  I don't know if I would think any differently...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 01, 2015, 07:23:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on June 01, 2015, 06:42:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 01, 2015, 02:10:16 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBPEWYPkP5M


AZOffally......I was thinking of you when I saw this.

This is as close to insanity as I have ever seen.......heavily armed civilians having a "draw Mohamed" event outside a Mosque looking to provoke a reaction.
.

That's f**king terrifying.

There are a lot of stupid people on the planet.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 05:33:10 PM
http://mediatakeout.com/274988/neighbors-call-police-when-too-many-black-teens-show-up-to-a-pool-party-in-texas-and-cops-brutalize-the-teens-blacklivesmatter.html (http://mediatakeout.com/274988/neighbors-call-police-when-too-many-black-teens-show-up-to-a-pool-party-in-texas-and-cops-brutalize-the-teens-blacklivesmatter.html)

This cop should be jailed. A complete nut job. Thankfully he didn't fire his gun.

How does someone like this end up on a police force? Seriously?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-texas-police-pool-party-video-205421706.html (http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-texas-police-pool-party-video-205421706.html)

Cop on 'administration leave'.

The girl he threw on the ground is 15.

The neighbour who phoned the cops complaining that there were too many blacks there (if that is in fact what happened) should be done for a hate crime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/mckinney-texas-pool-video/index.html (http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/mckinney-texas-pool-video/index.html)

Here is what another cop said: "But David Wagner said the officer's action was justified.

"Outside of being a little rough with the girl, I think the officer responded correctly," he posted on the page. "He was vastly outnumbered and the crowd was hostile. They could have overrun him and taken away his weapon. By drawing his weapon he was able to get the crowd to retreat.
"

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:17:04 PM
the first time I watched it a bunch of people did in fairness come rushing at him. On first pass one fella put his hand to his shirt line and it may have been judged at the time as going for a weapon. On second pass he was hitching them up or something but who knows in the heat of the moment?
I might be able to justify pulling the weapon when outnumbered and at risk of being taken but I can't justify his antics running around and handcuffing people and throwing a girl to the ground and detaining her like that.
They should have brought the K9 unit in. No need for guns - crowd will disperse very quickly and handlers are less highly strung than that idiot
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:43:09 PM
I've watched it a couple of time now. The cop is the problem. Look at everyone else in the video, including his colleagues. The scene is cam and the other kids even returned something that the cop dropped to another cop. It is all fine until our hero goes crazy. He is ordering all the black kids onto the ground, ignoring the white kids. The kids all seem to know each other and are talking be the cop is treating them completely differently. He then loses the plot completely shout ing obscenities before dragging the 14 year old girl and throwing her around.

There is no justification for his behaviour and he should not hold any position of authority.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.

::)

You asked the question. Failing to comply with an officer and giving backchat. If she was smart she'd have shut up and left the scene.
Now where's uncle Al and Rev Jesse??? This is NCAAP gold for TV propoganda.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:10:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 06:43:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Sounds like she was mouthing off. She had ample opportunity to walk away but didn't.

Yea, she should have shot her, like you would have done.

::)

You asked the question. Failing to comply with an officer and giving backchat. If she was smart she'd have shut up and left the scene.
Now where's uncle Al and Rev Jesse??? This is NCAAP gold for TV propoganda.

We know, you would have shot her, and probably some of the others.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

He was shouting randomly 'get your ass out of here'. He had compellable lost his mind.

Hardly anyone left. He then grabbed the black girl, out of a group with white kids who hadn't left either, by the head and threw her on the ground and assault her.

I am shocked that anyone can defend this.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:20:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

Now now whitey - if you've forgotten already the police are supposed to stand back for fear of being labelled - just like the Baltimore riots recently

People like muppet seem to encourage that stance.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:21:42 PM
We know Fox, you would have shot her.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:19:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:14:39 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:08:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:03:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:00:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:58:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:23:44 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 06:20:48 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on June 08, 2015, 06:00:04 PM
over stimulated ass-hole. Theres no way that was part of his training - what an idiot.

There is another video showing two women (one a black teenager and the other a white mother) pulling each others hair. Apparently this is evidence of the disturbance. This imho would have justified calling the police but nothing justifies the behaviour of that cop. And both women in the 'fight' should have been arrested until it was established exactly what happened.

The problem now could be with all of the bandwagons and agendas that follow a story like this, there could be riots and reactionary violence which does no one any good.

Respectfully disagree

Cop was very patient with everyone, and gave her numerous opportunities to leave before he slapped the cuffs on her. 2 idiots then approach him as he is struggling with her

If you or I or anyone else on this board did the same thing we would have faced a very simllar reaction.

Never, ever, ever, ever interfere with an officer whos arresting someone!

What was he arresting her for?

Im not an attorney, and the law varies from state to state, but if I were to hazard a guess Id say she got arrested for "failing to comply with a direct order from a law enforcement official".

She actually disobeyed 3/4 times before she finally got arrested

What order did she disobey? She was standing well away from him and he went over to her. Remember she is a 14 year old girl (according to the latest reports).

Maybe you were watching a different video, but I distinctly heard him order her and the group she was with to move away several times

She did move away. He went to her. Also he was only giving orders to the black kids. She was in a group with some white kids. He grabbed her, and only her, by the head and threw her on the ground.

He ordered the black kids to get on the ground or to move away but, even though there were white kids with them, it was obvious to everyone he was only giving orders to the blacks.


I find it disgusting that people can defend this blatant racism.

LOL-its black and white ! (no pun intended)

She disobeyed a direct order (on numerous occasions) and got arrested.

I have seen the exact same thing happen white people outside a bar in South Boston

He was shouting randomly 'get your ass out of here'. He had compellable lost his mind.

Hardly anyone left. He then grabbed the black girl, out of a group with white kids who hadn't left either, by the head and threw her on the ground and assault her.

I am shocked that anyone can defend this.

Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: theskull1 on June 08, 2015, 07:27:39 PM
How to raise a black son in America

http://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_how_to_raise_a_black_son_in_america?language=en (http://www.ted.com/talks/clint_smith_how_to_raise_a_black_son_in_america?language=en)

Surely this resonates with anyone who grew up in the north?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:28:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:29:02 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:21:42 PM
We know Fox, you would have shot her.

I don't think that's the correct solution

She should be tried by the courts if she was found guilty of an offence or the officer should be tried and dismissed if he's found to be in the wrong. It's quite simple.

You're quite hysterical muppet...


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:28:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

The other kids stood doing exactly what she did.

The video had nothing to do with a bar in Boston. It is kids on the street being policed by a rabidly racist cop. He ignored the white kids who were actually filming him, so he could handcuff the black kids for standing up. And you see nothing wrong with that naked racism?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
Meanwhile residents in the area put this up. Why were the cops called in the first place?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG7iwBjUAAEsfmP.jpg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:45:43 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
Meanwhile residents in the area put this up. Why were the cops called in the first place?

(https://twitter.com/ZahidArabFox4/status/607672344618758144/photo/1)

Because some kid posted his pool party on social media and half the town showed up. This has happened in Ireland but we managed without any police brutality to the kids involved.

But of course you wouldn't be bothered if he shot her.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:48:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:32:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:28:52 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:22:14 PM


Having lived here for 21 years, if a cop is yelling "get your ass out of here" in my direction, Im going to comply

I will leave the mental health evaluations to the professionals

So it was ok for him to target 1 14 your old black girl and assault her? You actually think that was an appropriate response?

Absolutely it was  appropriate

A 40 year old white guy would get the exact same treatment if he behaved in a similar manner. I have seen it with my own eyes.

The other kids stood doing exactly what she did.

The video had nothing to do with a bar in Boston. It is kids on the street being policed by a rabidly racist cop. He ignored the white kids who were actually filming him, so he could handcuff the black kids for standing up. And you see nothing wrong with that naked racism?

Direct quote from a black guy who lives in the neighborhood.

"This is not a racist neighborhood," said Benét Embry, a local radio personality who lives in the area and witnessed the incident. "There are a lot of good people in this community. It's unfortunate that an event like this brings the spotlight."

Embry, who is black, said he appreciated the police officers' speedy response in calming a rowdy situation.

"That's what they are supposed to do: protect us. I don't know any other way he could have taken her down or established order," he said.

Embry said that teenagers who do not live in the neighborhood started jumping over the fence to get to the party and were causing a disturbance. He said Dajerria was talking back to Casebolt.

"She's bringing more stress into an already volatile situation," Embry said. "Out of a hundred kids, you probably had seven who are acting the fool. They totally spoiled it for everybody else."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 08:01:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

I wonder would muppet change his tune if hundreds of teens invaded his neighbourhood and were on his property.   ;)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 08, 2015, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.

keep changing the subject and youll end up back where you started
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:18:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 08:14:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:10:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Kids jumped over a fence?

Seriously?

Did you have a childhood?

Why didnt you paraphrase the whole sentence......kids who jumped over the fence AND WERE CAUSING A DUSTURBANCE or did that part of his comment not fit your narrative-LOL

Are you arguing that this is why the cop beat up a 14 year old girl? He targeted her during the period we see in the clip. The fence and 'disturbance' are irrelevant at this stage. He has no idea who did what and is simply shouted obscenities at the blank kids.

keep changing the subject and youll end up back where you started

How have I changed the subject?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on June 08, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 08, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on June 08, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 08, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.

He has no business being in a position of authority and is unfit to be a policeman in my opinion, if I was black I could never have faith in this man, I have none and I am white!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 01:30:31 AM
He badly needs to learn how to deal with a crowd. It was a non-threatening situation and he made it into something more.

If he were in a genuinely difficult situation, he's likely to shoot someone imo
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 09, 2015, 03:34:54 AM
Quote from: stew on June 08, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 08, 2015, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: heganboy on June 08, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
I understand the uproar but really all you have here is a cop who lost his shit along with his temper. Should the cops be called to a hair pulling at a pool party? prob not. Should he lose his shit like that- prob not. Should he pull his weapon- probably not, should he be rubbing a 14 year olds face in the ground and be sitting on her? Balance of probability says no. Is there a case for a slap on the wrist - hell yeah. Public assassination for racism, thats the very same over reaction that he just displayed.

Probably not the best form of employment for the guy but as they say in Armagh - "there's worser out there"

This is all fair comment.

I saw a Facebook page calling for him to be fired and jailed and thought he should be given precisely  what he denied those black kids, due process.

Just because he is an out of control reactionary doesn't mean everyone else should be.

He has no business being in a position of authority and is unfit to be a policeman in my opinion, if I was black I could never have faith in this man, I have none and I am white!

Agree 100% Stew.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2015, 05:21:20 AM
What amazes me is how quickly everyone assumes, like the cop did, that it was the black kids who were "causing a disturbance."

So how do the klan grand wizards and chief dragons explain this...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 09, 2015, 06:29:31 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 09, 2015, 05:21:20 AM
What amazes me is how quickly everyone assumes, like the cop did, that it was the black kids who were "causing a disturbance."



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjHwOHFJGk)

Depends if you believe her side of the story. She states that everyone at the event were local or classmates but other reports talk of the party being advertised on facebook.
As Muppet stated earlier these kids were invading residents property and jumping fences - I think that could be deemed a disturbance.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 12:37:35 PM
Not sure where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread for it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0609/706833-albert-woodfox/

The bit about the state wanting to re-try him stinks of people not wanting to admit their mistakes
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 09, 2015, 12:41:34 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 09, 2015, 12:37:35 PM
Not sure where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread for it

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0609/706833-albert-woodfox/

The bit about the state wanting to re-try him stinks of people not wanting to admit their mistakes

"the judge also listed his "lack of confidence in the state to provide a fair third trial"

Wow. Some statement from the judge.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 10, 2015, 06:53:57 AM
Jumped fences, eh? Well that settles it. Shoot the blackguards!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 01:15:59 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

"He came into the call out of control and as the video shows was out of control during the incident," McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley told a news conference. Casebolt tendered his resignation on his own, Conley added.

"I had 12 officers on the scene, and 11 of them performed according to their training. They did an excellent job," Conley said.

Fair play to the Chief. I think he has called it correctly.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were fvckin Irish Americans, as white as you or I

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened when they didnt comply?

Youve got it....they had the handcuffs slapped on them!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on June 10, 2015, 02:51:05 PM
Did they all resign afterwards, then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 10, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Quote from: foxcommander on June 08, 2015, 07:29:02 PM
the officer should be tried and dismissed if he's found to be in the wrong. It's quite simple.


Screen - as above....

I understand why you may have missed that since Muppet and eamonn scream a little too loudly ...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were white

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened.....when they didnt comply they had the handcuffs slapped on them and they were as white as I am

I'm not even getting into the racist thing you guys were trying to say that the officer used appropriate force. . . the police chief doesn't think he did and obviously the officer upon reflection realised he didn't either.

Also as stated by the police chief there were another 11 officers on the scene who didn't have to resort to the 'takedown' of a 14 year old like their colleague did. She was a 14 year old girl in a bathing suit why on earth did the officer have to throw her around like a rag doll and rub her face in the pavement?!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 02:39:31 PM
Quote from: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 11:19:43 AM
It's great to see foxcommander and whitey on here defending the Policeman and he isn't even going to defend himself!!!

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-policeman-resigns-seen-video-throwing-girl-ground-215553860.html

The video is blatant lads it's ridiculous how you could defend it!!

Screenexile.....the accusation on here was that this was evidence of a rascist police officer, targetting the black kids.  We have an EYEWITNESS account From a BLACK man who LIVES in the neighborhood and HE said it had nothing to do with racism, yet most posters on here conveniently ignore his version of events.

Failure to comply with a direct order from a police officer will lead to a takedown like this. I saw it with my own 2 eyes outside a bar in South Boston and the people were arrested were white

FFS on the last day of school in my town someone called the cops over some high jinks by a group of graduating seniors.....guess what happened.....when they didnt comply they had the handcuffs slapped on them and they were as white as I am

I'm not even getting into the racist thing you guys were trying to say that the officer used appropriate force. . . the police chief doesn't think he did and obviously the officer upon reflection realised he didn't either.

Also as stated by the police chief there were another 11 officers on the scene who didn't have to resort to the 'takedown' of a 14 year old like their colleague did. She was a 14 year old girl in a bathing suit why on earth did the officer have to throw her around like a rag doll and rub her face in the pavement?!

You may not have been taking the rascist angle but others were

She was instructed to leave the area at least 4 times and failed to comply on each and every occasion.

If you or I did the same we would have had a similar or worse outcome than she did....I have seen it with my own eyes
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does? 

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on June 10, 2015, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Oh jesus he pulls out Hannity!!!!

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/sean-hannity-mckinney-cop-had-to-defend-himself-from-being-shanked-by-pool-party-teens/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:08:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

LOL-so after watching that interview and hearing the questions directly (even from Hannity)  do you still stand by your previous assertion that it was an incident fuelled by rascism?  Yes or no
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:13:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:08:27 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:05:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 04:40:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 04:32:21 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 03:24:26 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

So if its about kids in Texas why are you iignoring the the eyewitness testimony of a black man who was there.

Do you have better insight into how events unfolded that he does?

You are ignoring everything, except a quote from someone who said he was an eyewitness. You don't even know what question he was asked.

The cop quit. His Chief castigated him. Whitey says he was doing a great job beating up that girl.

Beg to differ.......https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpVJ2J919Q

Hannity  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Why did the other 11 cops not have to bravely throw bikini clad teenage girls onto the ground in order to defend themselves?

Here is what the Police Chief said: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-pool-party-casebolt-resigns-mckinney-police-article-1.2252485)

He said Casebolt's actions were 'indefensible'.

LOL-so after watching that interview and hearing the questions directly (even from Hannity)  do you still stand by your previous assertion that it was an incident fuelled by rascism?  Yes or no

I wouldn't watch Hannity if he was the last TV on earth.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:18:24 PM
How convenient
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:18:24 PM
How convenient

You go to Fox News chief right-wing lunatic Hannity to try to prove it wasn't racist!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You might watch that crap but don't expect the rest of us to.

Here is what the guy who took the video said:

Brandon Brooks, who posted the videos to YouTube, said in the original video's description, "A fight between a mom and a girl broke out and when the cops showed up everyone ran, including the people who didn't do anything. So the cops just started putting everyone on the ground and in handcuffs for no reason. This kind of force is uncalled for especially on children and innocent bystanders."

.....

The teen who filmed the video, who is white, agreed. He can be seen in the video walking around and talking to the black teens, who are being forced to sit on the ground, without the Casebolt saying anything to him.

Brooks told Buzzfeed, "Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic. [The cop] didn't even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible."



Hannity me arse.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:35:45 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:21:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 05:18:24 PM
How convenient

You go to Fox News chief right-wing lunatic Hannity to try to prove it wasn't racist!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You might watch that crap but don't expect the rest of us to.

Here is what the guy who took the video said:

Brandon Brooks, who posted the videos to YouTube, said in the original video's description, "A fight between a mom and a girl broke out and when the cops showed up everyone ran, including the people who didn't do anything. So the cops just started putting everyone on the ground and in handcuffs for no reason. This kind of force is uncalled for especially on children and innocent bystanders."

.....

The teen who filmed the video, who is white, agreed. He can be seen in the video walking around and talking to the black teens, who are being forced to sit on the ground, without the Casebolt saying anything to him.

Brooks told Buzzfeed, "Everyone who was getting put on the ground was black, Mexican, Arabic. [The cop] didn't even look at me. It was kind of like I was invisible."



Hannity me arse.

LOL...changing the subject again....now trying to make it about Hannity

The guy did interviews all over the place....that one was the one that popped up first, probably due to view count. 

Heres one he did on CNN......or is it against your religion to watch CNN too??

Of course some people are going to say its racist, but theres a different POV from equallly credible sources saying the complete opposite but your completely ignoring them

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PClAOQ7ZMok

Oh, by the way hes now getting death threats for saying it wasnt rascist
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.

Well given that you wont watch the Hannity video, we may as well leave it there. 


I guess the "it" bikini girls dad is referring to could be construed as the entire incident not the incident specific to his daughter. If theyre quoting bikins girls dad, and Im going on the assumption that theyre referring to his daughters takedown

They spend significant time talking about and disceting the Casebolt incident on the Hannity video.

Im not defending his actions....Im just saying that they arent rascist....and several African American eyewitnesses say the same thing as me and several white witnesses have the same opinion as you
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:38:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:30:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:22:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:19:23 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 06:06:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 10, 2015, 06:01:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 05:49:51 PM
That man is not dealing with the specific Casebolt incident, he is mainly talking about the whole event.

All he said about Casebolt is that he doesn't believe that he showed up with the intent of being racist. That is fine. It is his opinion and he is entitled to it. Eater way it would be hard to prove Casebolt's intent.

But the facts in the video are that Casebolt ignored the white kids and assaulted only black kids. That is a fact no matter how people try to spin it. Saying that it was a coincidence that they are black is stretching things, because if you notice at no time did Casebolt ask whether anyone was local or not. Case bolt decided who was who on colour alone.

You are a gas man claiming people are ignoring things while you ignore the following:

1) Casebolt quit after watching the video;
2) Casebolt's Police Chief has condemned his actions;
3) The Mayor has expressed dismay at the policing of Casebolt in the video;

The whole event is defined by the Casebolt incident-LOL.

And yet your interviewee doesn't even talk about him or the girl. Why is that?

Are you watching the same video as me?

1:26 interviewee quotes the bikini girls father as saying "this is all about race"

They don't discuss Casebolt's actions with the girl do they?

You don't want to post about anyone who talks specifically about Casebolt's action because, as his Police Chief, his actions are 'indefensible'. But yet you are trying to defend his actions.

Well given that you wont watch the Hannity video, we may as well leave it there. 


I guess the "it" bikini girls dad is referring to could be construed as the entire incident not the incident specific to his daughter. If theyre quoting bikins girls dad, and Im going on the assumption that theyre referring to his daughters takedown

They spend significant time talking about and disceting the Casebolt incident on the Hannity video.

Im not defending his actions....Im just saying that they arent rascist....and several African American eyewitnesses say the same thing as me and several white witnesses have the same opinion as you

Why was Casebolt only aggressive with the black kids?

As for Hannity.

I wouldn't watch FOX News if I was being tortured. It is a source of serious embarrassment to me that names like Hannity & O'Reilly, good Irish names, are so prominent on such a despicable channel.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

Wha?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:25:29 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 10, 2015, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on June 10, 2015, 03:11:36 PM
I won't disagree with you whitey as you live in the states so presumably you're correct in what you say.

In non-threatening situations like this though, surely the cops should be trying to diffuse tension rather than ratchet it up. Because it's the norm for cops to behave like this doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do

Never mind his Boston bar story. This is about kids in Texas. The States is a huge country with cops differing from state to state. You can't get into a bar in Boston without a passport, even if you are on a zimmer-frame. It varies wildly.

There were 11 other cops who did nothing and have been backed by their Chief. Dirty Harry style policing might be up Whitey's street, but thankfully he is in a minority.

Wha?

Usually the only ID they will take from foreigners. It doesn't matter what age you are, even if you are obvious north of 80.

Haven't encountered it regularly anywhere other than Boston.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

Yeah, but you look like a Paddy. They probably thought you were collecting funds for Noraid :)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

Yeah, but you look like a Paddy. They probably thought you were collecting funds for Noraid :)


If they'd asked, I'd have split the money with them.  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 07:22:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

You'd have just shot him straight away wouldn't you?

No need to bother with an boring arrest or a costly court process. Just shoot them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does in Fox News land. And maybe North Korea.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2015, 07:31:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.

Don't remember Boston being that bad TBF although I did get refused a couple of places (I wasn't 21 at that time)  May have got stricker since.

San Diego on the other hand was a total nightmare, I actually got refused a couple of places with a passport, not an acceptable form of ID apparently :D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 07:42:42 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 11:26:26 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 11, 2015, 10:30:51 AM
I've been in several bars in Boston and have never been asked for a passport :) Maybe I look like a Yank. Damn Runners with Jeans!

The only time I wasn't asked was if it was mainly a restaurant or once in a very locals bar away from the city centre. Every other time, its a passport.

There's supposedly 300,000 students in Boston, so some bars just make it a policy of id-ing everyone.

Other bars that have had "issues", may be forced by the licensing board to adopt a similar policy.

Someone else was telling me that a bar can lower the premium on their public liability insurance by having stringent I'd checks.....so from time to time you actually get scanned in like at the airport.

That's fair enough, but I have been with guys approaching 60, who were refused, because they didn't have ID (they would only accept a passport). Have to say one of them blew a gasket completely and it was one of the funniest things I've seen. Picture a grey, balding beer-bellied Irishman, with a bad knee, arguing over whether has ID to prove he is over 21.

Were ye drunk and roaring and shouting as you came up the street? Or were ye wearing wife beater tee shirts? 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on June 11, 2015, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

I think we actually have had a few campaigns over the last few thousand years #everyoneslivesmatter

some of the celeb sponsors have been #Jesus #Mohammed (#nopics!) #Gandhi #buddha and a few other well known commies and lefties.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 09:00:41 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Please quote where I stated that.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

Some of the worst atrocities against the Irish in Ireland were carried out by Irish people. But they were carried out on behalf of the British.

By your logic the Brits were never guilty of anything against the Irish.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Clov on June 11, 2015, 09:21:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

I think this is were we disagree. For me his innocence or guilt is irrelevant to his treatment while in police custody. Moreover, it seems to me it is irrelevant to the rest of the article. That line could read that he was a known drug dealer, as you put it, and the entire rest of the article would stand as written.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 09:38:03 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 09:21:57 PM
I think this is were we disagree. For me his innocence or guilt is irrelevant to his treatment while in police custody. Moreover, it seems to me it is irrelevant to the rest of the article. That line could read that he was a known drug dealer, as you put it, and the entire rest of the article would stand as written.

I agree with that. Should not have happened.
But the media portrayal and with your article saying that he was a random citizen being picked on by the police for no particular reason is misleading of the facts.
The police have a tough job to do to keep the streets safe. Without enforcing the law and catching criminals it wouldn't be liveable for everyone else. Look what happens in the streets when police don't intervene...riots and looting galore, and that would be just the start of it.

Maybe they need more social workers and can wheel out the "come from a broken home" excuse for the behaviour.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray’s death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

Some of the worst atrocities against the Irish in Ireland were carried out by Irish people. But they were carried out on behalf of the British.

By your logic the Brits were never guilty of anything against the Irish.

Changing the subject again I see
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

Dog whistle....shmog whistle

Are some cops bullies?   Yes

Are some cops rascist? Absolutely

Are some cops thundering ar$eholes? Bet your life they are

But is EVERY incident between cop and a person of color rooted in Rascism-not on your life!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:14:19 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

I merely stated that the article failed to mention that he was a known offender (a drug dealer in this case), not picked on at random for his colour. But you can twist it whatever way you like if it suits you.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 11:13:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....if you're black

Yes, very easily fixed - did that for you.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 11:28:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:10:01 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 09:05:09 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 08:28:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 08:19:16 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:40:48 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 07:25:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Clov on June 11, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/adam-shatz/freddie-gray

"It's true that some protesters in Baltimore exploited the rage over Gray's death to loot and destroy property"

No way!!

"It's not clear why he was a person of interest, other than that he was a young black male"

Omitted that Freddie Gray was a known drug dealer. The article loses any credibility.

Don't see how that matters?

It does if you are trying to paint someone in an innocent light to justify your article.
If he had previous it's disingenuous to say "not clear why he was a person of interest". Peddling drugs is an offence is it not? That's why he ran.

Selling crack to kids. What a good chap. Defend his rights to deal Muppet!!

No one is defending anyone's right to deal.

You are denying any of these people the right to even a trial, never mind the right to live.

Muppet - start your campaign #DrugDealersLivesMatter

So drug dealers are to be killed before trial, in horrible, tortuous ways? Good stuff Foxcommander.

Dog whistle, racist stuff. Glad to see your spiritual king Mr. Limbaugh is suffering a slump in ratings, it's enough to make you think sanity may be returning to at least some areas of the American media.

You do realize that 3/6 of the officers charged in Baltimore are actually BLACK??

baltimore police officers charged

And they are also the ones facing the most serious charges?

https://tribwxin.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/s047047812-300.jpg?w=770

So before you go making accusations of rascism, make sure you do just a little research

And before you go on with that kind of ridiculous riposte, credit us with a little intelligence, even if we live outside the intellectual powerhouse that is the United States. The identity and race of the alleged murderers is not the issue. The issue is Foxcommander's implications that he deserved it because he was a drug dealer - and there is the dog whistle moment, because of course , the vast majority of drug dealers are black. Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Please don't come on here expecting not to be called out for coded racism when you are plainly using it. We are not thick, and some of the attitudes on here are atrocious. No point calling them anything other than what they are.

Dog whistle....shmog whistle - na,na,nana, na - playground stuff, ignore the point.

Are some cops bullies?  Yes - and this bullying is usually directed towards people of colour

Are some cops rascist? Absolutely - please, enough with the one bad apple defence, how much does "some" have to be before you describe the institution as racist rather than the indivduals?

Are some cops thundering ar$eholes? Bet your life they are - I'd rather they all be assholes on an equal opportunities basis than "some" being racist regularly

But is EVERY incident between cop and a person of color rooted in Rascism-not on your life!!! - Not every incident has to be based on racism for a lot of racist incidents to have taken place. If the standard for institutional racism to exist is that every arrest has to be based on that, then you're basing your argument on the exception rather than the rule, making it impossible to prove that there is any problem a all - but then you knew that, didn't you?

You nearly got there Whitey, nearly got there... but Roger Ailes would be proud of your logic towards the end.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 11, 2015, 11:55:42 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Probably highlights how alot of people misunderstand how police forces are setup in America

To answer Muppets point America is a much more diverse place than Ireland socially, economically, culturally and so based on these needs police coverage is a lot more fragmented in America than in Ireland. So many cities setup their own departments so they can have more control of the police force based on the localised requirements and expectations of law enforcement.

Where I live the beach cities have their own police force so that the police are well rehearsed in the needs of tourists and what is acceptable for tourists to do and maybe have a gradual escalation of enforcement. Whereas in the more urban areas police are straight in deal with things quickly and abruptly b4 a situation gets out of hand. If these standards were applied to the beach cities they would very quickly have no tourists. On the other hand if the Beach cities police standards were applied to south central they would be taken advantage of and do very little enforcement

I imagine Universities have them for similar reasons as a university campus is a unique environment with unique requirements for law enforcement
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Ah Jaysus Muppet you're losing the plot completely-LOL. I never said that the cops werent the problem-I said that every incident involving an officer and a person of color was not necessarily based on race. (And this article proves that point to a tee)

When  I did make  the point about the Boston cops hammering the $$hite out of a bunch of people (male and female I might add) outside a bar for failing to comply with an order, you jumped down my throat and said that that was t relevant to what happened in TX.

Now you're saying that not alone is police brutalityrelevant, but that's it's the crux of the issue.

So now you're actually agreeing with me


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:13:23 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 11, 2015, 11:55:42 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Probably highlights how alot of people misunderstand how police forces are setup in America

To answer Muppets point America is a much more diverse place than Ireland socially, economically, culturally and so based on these needs police coverage is a lot more fragmented in America than in Ireland. So many cities setup their own departments so they can have more control of the police force based on the localised requirements and expectations of law enforcement.

Where I live the beach cities have their own police force so that the police are well rehearsed in the needs of tourists and what is acceptable for tourists to do and maybe have a gradual escalation of enforcement. Whereas in the more urban areas police are straight in deal with things quickly and abruptly b4 a situation gets out of hand. If these standards were applied to the beach cities they would very quickly have no tourists. On the other hand if the Beach cities police standards were applied to south central they would be taken advantage of and do very little enforcement

I imagine Universities have them for similar reasons as a university campus is a unique environment with unique requirements for law enforcement

In my area.....town police, State Police, County Sherrifs (really only do prisoner transport) Environmental Police (enforce fishing regulations) Harbormaster (enforces town bylaws as they pertain to leisure watercraft) MBTA Police (if I take the subway into Boston) Amtrak Police (if I take the train to Amtrak Train to NYC) Park Police (responsible for National Parks) Postal Police (at the Main post office downtown Boston. There's probably some other ones I'm missing
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Rossfan on June 12, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
What's " a person of color(sic)"?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:29:45 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 12, 2015, 12:14:42 AM
What's " a person of color(sic)"?

Remember years ago Rossfan there used to be tinkers in Ireland.........and you wouldn't find a t**ker now to save your life........

Kinda the same thing here with the evolution from Negro to Colored person to black person and now (probably all Obama fault) were almost back to colored person again with "person of color". In case you didn't know American keyboards are missing the "U" key
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 03:12:15 AM
12 year-old black kid plays with a toy gun in a park. Cops show up and he's dead within two seconds. Let's hear your justification for this summary execution, you banjo-playing rednecks:

QuoteTamir Rice: judge finds cause for murder charge over police killing of 12-year-old

A judge in Ohio said on Thursday he had found probable cause to charge a police officer with murder for the fatal shooting of 12-year-old Tamir Rice last year.

Judge Ronald Adrine of the Cleveland municipal court said there were grounds to prosecute officer Timothy Loehmann with murder, manslaughter, reckless homicide and negligent homicide.

Adrine also found there was probable cause for a charge of negligent homicide against officer Frank Garmback, Loehmann's partner, who was present when Tamir was shot at a park on 22 November while holding a pellet gun.

Tamir Rice
Tamir Rice. Photograph: Facebook
The judge's recommendation, however, was brushed aside by Timothy McGinty, the Cuyahoga County prosecutor, who pledged to proceed as planned with having a grand jury decide on whether the officers should be charged.

"This case, as with all other fatal use of deadly force cases involving law enforcement officers, will go to the grand jury," McGinty said in a statement. "That has been the policy of this office since I was elected. Ultimately, the grand jury decides whether police officers are charged or not charged."

In a 10-page order, Judge Adrine wrote that after viewing surveillance video, which shows Tamir being shot dead within two seconds of Loehmann's arrival, he was "still thunderstruck by how quickly this event turned deadly".

The judge said Tamir was given "little if any time" to respond to any commands from the officers, that his arms were not raised, and that he made no "furtive movement". Adrine wrote: "Literally, the entire encounter is over in an instant."

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Adrine noted that his role remained "advisory in nature" and that any charges must be brought by prosecutors for the city of Cleveland or Cuyahoga County.

However, Walter Madison, an attorney for Tamir's family, said on Thursday that he knew of no legitimate impediment to a prosecution and that Loehmann and Garmback should be arrested and arraigned in court.

"We are very much relieved and it is a step towards procedural justice and people having access to their government," Madison told the Guardian.

The judge's finding followed community leaders taking advantage of a little-known law to appeal directly to the judge to commence a prosecution of the officer, as is permitted in Ohio and a few other states.

The Counted: people killed by police in the United States in 2015 – interactive
The Guardian is counting the people killed by US law enforcement agencies this year. Read their stories and contribute to our ongoing, crowdsourced project
Read more
"State law does provide an avenue for a private citizen having knowledge of facts to initiate the criminal process," Adrine wrote in his order.

Madison said the judge's finding showed "the police are public servants and not the public's master".

In a statement issued through their attorneys, the Rice family said the eight community leaders who filed affidavits to the judge accusing the officers of murder had "provided a blueprint for the nation to follow in addressing many of the relationship problems between African Americans and law enforcement".

Loehmann shot Tamir dead while responding to a 911 call claiming Tamir was pointing his pellet gun. The caller noted the gun was "probably fake", though it is unclear if that information was shared with the officers.

Adrine noted in his order on Thursday that the video shows the officers' patrol car was "still in the process of stopping when Tamir is shot", that for four minutes "neither officer approaches Tamir as he lies wounded on the ground", and that they physically restrained Tamir's sister when she tried to reach him.

An investigation into the shooting by the Cuyahoga County sheriff's office has been completed and handed to the office of McGinty, the county prosecutor.

Clifford Pinkney, the county sheriff, said his office had conducted an "extensive, thorough and unbiased investigation" based on thousands of documents, multiple interviews and reconstructions of the incident.

The decision to proceed with a grand jury in Tamir's case has prompted anxiety among his family's supporters, who argue that the format lacks transparency and favours police officers in controversial cases.

A grand jury in St Louis, Missouri, last year declined to indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old in August. The following week, a grand jury in New York decided not to indict a police officer who caused the death of Eric Garner, an unarmed black man, by placing him in a chokehold.

Earlier this year Barack Obama's White House policing taskforce recommended that all fatalities caused by law enforcement officers be investigated by independent prosecutors to avoid potential conflicts of interest among local authorities.

Full story including the shocking video:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/11/tamir-rice-police-officer-murder-charge (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/11/tamir-rice-police-officer-murder-charge)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 12, 2015, 03:18:10 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on June 11, 2015, 09:55:51 PM
Now of course, we could bring up the fact that as a black person, you are many times more likely to be incarcerated than than a white person arrested and convicted for the same crime. But that would be just playing the game.

Easily fixed. Don't break the law....

You completely ignored the "same crime" bit, which was the point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 05:10:36 AM
Anybody who says black people should "just obey the law and no harm will come to them" would need to spend a day in America living as a black person to see what it's like. Here's probably the best example I've seen of how differently blacks and whites are treated in this "post racial America" that the right wing media keeps talking about. Two people do the exact same thing: openly carry an AR15 rifle in the street in a state where it is legal to do so. Watch the different reactions from the police and come back to me with your theories about why racial prejudice has nothing to do with it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on June 12, 2015, 10:59:42 AM
I imagine there is an ingrained sort of racial profiling alright. Imagine if it was a guy from the middle east!?!

The unfortunate fact though, is that there is a high level of crime among poor black areas, which is a societal issue. On the front line, a cop might not be considering societal issues, or might be buck ignorant and unwilling to bother. Some of them undoubtedly see black skin as the equivalent of gang colours.

That is wrong, but in some highly charged situations, I would have sympathy for cops who feel they are in danger. I also feel this explains the fact that quite a few cops involved in questionable incidents are black too, so I feel pure racism (Black Guy is inferior to White Guy) is not the issue, it's more that they are almost assuming a higher propensity to violence if the suspect is black, no matter the colour of the officer.

I feel no sympathy for this bully in Texas, and he is right to fall on his sword, and I'm glad the PD doesn't try to defend him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 12, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:52:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 11, 2015, 10:20:45 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/26/us/yale-blow-son-detained/

Here's another one. Black kid at Yale, son of someone famous, has gun pulled on them and wrestled to the ground by a Yale cop in a case of mistaken identity.

Holy blue murder all weekend on the airwaves and in the liberal press....ha never heard the like

The one pertinent fact that was left out of the entire story was that the cop involved was actually BLACK-LOL

You are too stupid to realise your latest link proves this is about the victims. Your story actually proves the point we are making, not disproves it.  ;D

The cops are the problem, regardless of their colour. The likely source of the problem though is the incredibly ignorant medieval attitudes of people like yourself, Foxcommander and Hannity. Sadly it appears there are quite of few of you shoot to kill merchants.

There is more to it than simple colour, class is a major factor here. But colour is the easiest way to discriminate in the US. In Ireland it was religion. All the same.

Ah Jaysus Muppet you're losing the plot completely-LOL. I never said that the cops werent the problem-I said that every incident involving an officer and a person of color was not necessarily based on race. (And this article proves that point to a tee)

When  I did make  the point about the Boston cops hammering the $$hite out of a bunch of people (male and female I might add) outside a bar for failing to comply with an order, you jumped down my throat and said that that was t relevant to what happened in TX.

Now you're saying that not alone is police brutalityrelevant, but that's it's the crux of the issue.

So now you're actually agreeing with me

You said 'The one pertinent fact that was left out' was that the cop was black. You thought this turned the story on its head. It doesn't. IT still shows cops being overaggressive to an unarmed black man.

You finally expanded your story on what you witnessed outside a bar in Boston. So what? Post up a video till we have a look. It might prove that cops can be overaggressive to white Irish people too, who knows. You won't tell us. I had made the point that his is also about class, but class is easiest identified by colour where you are.

You seem to think that because you saw cops beating up some people that this makes them beating up blacks ok.

And you think this is an argument?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on June 12, 2015, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.

So let me explain. Every city in the US has their own police force. A lot of the universities in the US have as many people as as city and in the case of a private college the grounds are private so they need their own police force. They are needed to keep the place for young kids, first time away from home, underage drinking and of course women from being attacked.

I'm not going to try to defend the Texas cop last week however I do think he felt threatened when he pulled the gun when the crowd went in to save the girl (from looking at the video I think he pulled the gun on a white guy who could have been taken for reaching for a gun).

I don't believe that all these incidents are racially driven. There's a huge PR push behind the 'blacklivesmatter' campaign and are ready to jump on every incident. Cops today are under huge pressure, pull a gun early and get hammered in the media, pull it too late and you could end up dead. The reason that there are so many black men incarcerated is not because of racist cops but because of government/social reason. If the PR people put as much focus on this they would save a lot more black lives, but that's not glamorous or easy for some of the activists.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 12, 2015, 02:19:03 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/wmex_backing_host_michele_mcphee_in_oui_assault_counts

Headline in Boston Herald this morning-LOL

Local Right Wing Radio Host arrested for OUI, resisting arrest and assaulting a state trooper.  Took 3 troopers to subdue her and get the cuffs on resulting in her requiring 20 stitches

#fatwhitedrunkchickslivesmatter

And I have about as much sympathy for her as I had for bikini girl
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 04:23:59 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 05:10:36 AM
Anybody who says black people should "just obey the law and no harm will come to them" would need to spend a day in America living as a black person to see what it's like.

Why not give us a report then? You never answered me about when you plan to move to Oakland.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 04:25:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 12, 2015, 02:19:03 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/06/wmex_backing_host_michele_mcphee_in_oui_assault_counts

Headline in Boston Herald this morning-LOL

Local Right Wing Radio Host arrested for OUI, resisting arrest and assaulting a state trooper.  Took 3 troopers to subdue her and get the cuffs on resulting in her requiring 20 stitches

#fatwhitedrunkchickslivesmatter

And I have about as much sympathy for her as I had for bikini girl

Someone broke the law and deserves to be charged. Wait a minute......  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 06:32:04 PM
And what, prey tell, does my location have to do with the racism of cops? Hmm?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 08:08:13 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 06:32:04 PM
And what, prey tell, does my location have to do with the racism of cops? Hmm?

You mentioned that we should walk a mile in another man's shoes. At least you should try it first and then give us a report of how it goes. Or do you like pontificating from the ivory tower too much?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:09:44 PM
He tells black people to just stop getting shot and them asks me about life in the ivory tower.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 08:54:38 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:09:44 PM
He tells black people to just stop getting shot and them asks me about life in the ivory tower.

Have fun in Oakland. Can't wait to hear how you get on....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
I hang out in Oakland occasionally. What of it?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:03:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 08:57:43 PM
I hang out in Oakland occasionally. What of it?

Which neighbourhoods?  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
Quote from: Muck Savage on June 12, 2015, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 12, 2015, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on June 11, 2015, 11:22:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 11, 2015, 10:56:46 PM
When you think about it, it is a very sad state of affairs that a university has to have its own police department.

Why?

Does every institution have its own police department? Is this the case with hospitals, massive companies etc? I honestly don't know. I just have never seen a university with its own police department before. I would guess this has more to do with the tragic mass shootings that occur so frequently, and possibly the insane gun laws, rather than any social policy, but again I honestly don't know. Maybe there is a genuine benefit to a strong police presence in college. (Thank God there wasn't any when I was in college, in Belfast, during the troubles - imagine!).

If the mantra of the lunatic fringe is 'obey the law', then surely the law should be simple enough for the common man, and the common cop to understand? If the cops need to be split up into different organisations to deal with a huge diversity of situations, then how on earth can the common man be expected to keep up with all these differences to ensure he is 'obeying' the law?

But regardless, the problem is a small minority of police think they are the law and it is they who should be obeyed. The secondary problem is that there are idiots like Hannity defending them.

So let me explain. Every city in the US has their own police force. A lot of the universities in the US have as many people as as city and in the case of a private college the grounds are private so they need their own police force. They are needed to keep the place for young kids, first time away from home, underage drinking and of course women from being attacked.

I'm not going to try to defend the Texas cop last week however I do think he felt threatened when he pulled the gun when the crowd went in to save the girl (from looking at the video I think he pulled the gun on a white guy who could have been taken for reaching for a gun).

I don't believe that all these incidents are racially driven. There's a huge PR push behind the 'blacklivesmatter' campaign and are ready to jump on every incident. Cops today are under huge pressure, pull a gun early and get hammered in the media, pull it too late and you could end up dead. The reason that there are so many black men incarcerated is not because of racist cops but because of government/social reason. If the PR people put as much focus on this they would save a lot more black lives, but that's not glamorous or easy for some of the activists.

I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Muck Savage on June 13, 2015, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

Eamonn - He actually responded to a statement that black people are more likely to be incarcerated than a white man for the same crime.
The response was "Easily fixed. Don't break the law..." , this would be a good first step for the majority of Black or White people in prison.

Your getting as bad as FOX with all the half truths and snippets put together to tell a story that suits the agenda

Whats your solution to addressing the problem?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2015, 01:44:26 AM
Quote from: Muck Savage on June 13, 2015, 09:36:10 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

Eamonn - He actually responded to a statement that black people are more likely to be incarcerated than a white man for the same crime.
The response was "Easily fixed. Don't break the law..." , this would be a good first step for the majority of Black or White people in prison.

Your getting as bad as FOX with all the half truths and snippets put together to tell a story that suits the agenda

Whats your solution to addressing the problem?

You accuse HIM of half truths??

The point, that foxcommander skips over, is the biased justice system and blacks being more severely punished that whites for the same things.

Although I don't get why Eamonnca would feel the need to explain it.

I think most people here are intelligent enough to see when someone ignores a valid argument or makes strawman arguments and is intellectually dishonest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2015, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2015, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.

Gave me the best laugh of the weekend....I'm sure the Sharia police and Military dictators who run the countries the top 12 universities are located in would be well able to keep law and order-Lol
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 14, 2015, 03:48:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2015, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on June 13, 2015, 05:04:43 PM
I see.

Maybe when the rest of the world grows up and has big universities, even private ones, they will need their own police departments too? They won't even need to be underage drinking because the drinking age will be 18 in most of those countries. God knows how the women will survive.

There's no need to be so defensive about this, Muppet. Policing is very fragmented in the US, that's just the way it's set up. Each municipal unit has its own police department, even the smallest town will have its own PD. Fire departments are the same, it's all run on the same lines as local government. Some universities are so big and cover such a big area that they have their own zip codes and in some cases even their own police departments. I don't know if it's the best way to do things or not but there it is.

I asked why it was different in the US. I was given reasons that apply to universities all over the world: really really big, drinking, women aren't see etc. Your comment 'that's just the way it is set up' is more of an answer to the question, even if it isn't very satisfactory.

BTW no US university makes the top 12 in the world in size (acc to Wiki).

If every big institution has its own Police Department, with its local command chain, training, policy and procedures etc, how on earth are standards across police forces measured or maintained? How is information and experience shared? For example, we know that there was intelligence warning of the 911 attack available but it fell between the various stools of difference intelligence and law enforcement agencies. If that catastrophic failure to protect itself didn't the message across it is hard to know what will.

Fire Departments don't have extraordinary powers over citizens so that wouldn't bother me too much. But the police do.

The worst thing about all this is the Fox News philosophy whereby they insist the police are the law, rather than serve the law. We have seen this type of authoritarian thinking throughout history, and it is always abused.

You should check out New Jersey. There is town after town, with no line between them except on a map, and they all have their own police force. You drive down the street from Jersey City into Hoboken and the only thing that might indicate you're in a different town is a sign saying "Welcome to Hoboken" or whatever, yet the sign divides two completely separate police forces. And then you throw in the Port Authority police in the same area who look after the Holland and Lincoln tunnels, PATH stations etc.

Of course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2015, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 14, 2015, 06:30:46 PM
QuoteMuppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

I would point at the system.

QuoteOf course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.

This is a fair observation of the system. A country's police force has to be entirely separate from the political system. Many politicians can't help themselves and will try to interfere, and that is why the system has to be strong enough to protect against that. This happens everywhere, including and especially in Ireland.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 14, 2015, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2015, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.

Omagh you're comparing apples with cannonballs comparing a state wide ballot initiative with a proposition at the annual town meeting which  deals almost entirely with issue of budget. 

I wasn't clear enough in my statement, what I should have said was that if I felt the town needed an extra officer, I could table a motion that would allow the town to allocate the necessary budgetary dollars to allow that to happen.  Then at the town meeting, everyone registered voter gets their say, both for and against, including said professionals you alluded to.

What's the alternative...have a system like in Ireland where. Your only recourse is to call up Joe Duffy or Tommy Marren
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 11:41:40 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2015, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 14, 2015, 04:01:20 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 14, 2015, 03:50:54 PM
Muppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

The American system creates massive problems for the police guns being one of the most obvious ones...look at this eejit

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/peter-nathan-steinmetz-barrow-brain-scientist-arrested-at-airport-with-ar-15-6637874

But there is also other problems such as wealth disparity, mass immigration and the subsequent culture misunderstandings etc etc.

All in all it makes America a very difficult place to police

omaghjoe....most of the people criticizing the police don't live in the U.S. and haven't a clue as to what goes on here. They read one sided biased left wing crap and then jump down the throats of anyone who has a different opinion......ie the people who actually live here and interact with law enforcement on a daily basis

And all this talk about Fox News, Rush Limbaugh etc......the real irony is that the vast majority of the problem police depts are in heavily DEMOCRATIC towns and cities.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/black-voters-in-st-louis-county-direct-their-anger-at-the-democratic-party/2014/10/14/e6957b8a-4f02-11e4-aa5e-7153e466a02d_story.html

And the issue of every town having its own police dept has as much to do with property tax and local autonomy as anything else. Eg in my town the Chief of Police (and indeed every police officer) are appointed by and paid for by the town through property taxes. That gives the town the latitude to appoint (and indeed fire) officers and a chief after a rigorous interview process.

If I as a resident feel that the town needs an extra police officer, I can (if I have 100 signatures) have a motion tabled at the annual town meeting and the residents get to have a vote on the motion.

Thats true democarcy in action

Your right about people jumping down others throats on this thread but I its coming from both sides if your honest. Democrats in America tend to be self righteous fundamentalists, while Republicans tend to be self righteous fundamentalists. That's the people who are making the most noise at least most people I feel are in between but get caught up in the nonsense. Demonising the other side will only entrench their position

The fragmented nature of American police has its benefits and that is that areas are policed more locally according to their needs however it tends to amplify the huge differences that already exist in America. But again not really the polices fault, more the system.

Also democracy isn't there for the masses to run things, it is there to make those in power accountable. Public affairs should be run by public officials that know their field, they should however be accountable to the public by way of democracy. How does the public know the best way to police their city...they don't. What do you or I know about whether  or not an extra policeman will make the place better policed?.... We don't....the police do....Maybe better communications, different methods, less paperwork, more paperwork would mean things are run better, you or I don't have clue.

I am not sure where u live exactly but in California they have these propositions where anyone can basically propose a referendum that the entire state has to vote on. They are truely the most idiotic thing ever as most people dont have a clue what they are voting on but vote anyway, some people call it true democracy, I call it a shambles.

Omagh you're comparing apples with cannonballs comparing a state wide ballot initiative with a proposition at the annual town meeting which  deals almost entirely with issue of budget. 

I wasn't clear enough in my statement, what I should have said was that if I felt the town needed an extra officer, I could table a motion that would allow the town to allocate the necessary budgetary dollars to allow that to happen.  Then at the town meeting, everyone registered voter gets their say, both for and against, including said professionals you alluded to.

What's the alternative...have a system like in Ireland where. Your only recourse is to call up Joe Duffy or Tommy Marren

Huh??... I wasn't compering the two. I was using the ca props to highlight another example where the populace of America are too involved in making decisions for things that they know nothing about.
They should have input of course and those in charge should be accountable to that populace however but they should not be involved in the actual decision.

Are there only two choices? Ireland's and America's? Now that is apples and cannonballs! How about a democratically accountable technocracy?

Local issues should be dealt with locally however we live in an increasingly connected world where we deal less with our neighbours and more with people further and further away. To govern that we will need to have an increasingly centralised governance that deals with how to we connect to each other.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2015, 04:01:44 AM
There's advantages and disadvantages to localized policing, but I think the main problem is a lack of police accountability. Contrary to what Whitey says about Joe Duffy, in Ireland (north) you've got the office of Police Ombudsman, in the south you've got the GSOC. At least in theory you have independent bodies that you can go to that have the power to investigate the cops, so you have somebody to police the policemen.

In the US you've got the Department of Justice but that's very high up the ladder at federal level which probably makes it a bit inaccessible to the average joe with a complaint. Plus it probably depends on what kind of an administration is in the White House. I couldn't see a Republican administration being as keen to investigate police wrongdoing.

You could try complaining directly to the police department, but the conflict of interest there is obvious enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v7lF5ttlQ)

If I were to put independent police ombudsmen in place in the states I'd say county level would be the best place for it. City level would be a bit too messy, plus you have some police departments that straddle various cities and even counties in some cases. BART police, which patrols the Bay Area Rapid Transit system, can be found in about half a dozen different counties and probably twenty different cities.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 15, 2015, 04:53:30 AM
Quote from: muppet on June 14, 2015, 06:30:46 PM
QuoteMuppet, You make good points about the system in America and there is no doubt it has its fragmented nature has its failing but the police are only trying to police within that system.

So it begs the question what's the problem? Is it the system? or the police?

I would point at the system.

QuoteOf course, there is a lot of cooperation and coordination between them, but it is horribly sympomatic of politicians trying to keep their little fiefdoms and power.

This is a fair observation of the system. A country's police force has to be entirely separate from the political system. Many politicians can't help themselves and will try to interfere, and that is why the system has to be strong enough to protect against that. This happens everywhere, including and especially in Ireland.

Pretty much agree with everything you said there Muppet (no really) but...(just messin!)

Actually at the risk of getting off topic I would expand it even more and take politicians out of running things directly. They just aren't good at it.....they are good at getting elected but often know nothing about the fields they are running and are subject to short term trends, fashions, and misled public opinion that often aren't beneficial in the long run. I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2015, 06:34:21 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 15, 2015, 04:53:30 AM
I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.

That's pretty much how local government already works in the states. Professional city staff do the technical homework, they produce reports and make their recommendations.

Council meetings are then held in public, city staff are represented by the city manager and city attorney. Elected council members can ask questions of city staff on their recommendations, members of the public can make their comments, and council votes on it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 16, 2015, 04:56:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 13, 2015, 06:20:55 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 12, 2015, 09:18:22 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 12, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
"None of", "your," and "business."

LOL - You mean one where there are Chai Latte's and Couscous ;)
Make sure the nice police officers are keeping an eye out for you.

For the benefit of anyone wondering what Fox is on about, let me recap.

He says that all black people have to do is to stop breaking the law and the law will stop hassling them.

I said that he'd know it's not that simple if he tried to see things from a black person's point of view.

He responded by telling me that if he needs to see things from a black person's perspective, then I should move to Oakland where black people live.

No, it makes no sense to me either.

I do love the fact that you think people here can't read so you have kindly provided a synopsis for them.
It's a fairly inaccurate account with your half truths..but I guess you're trying to save face.

Let me know when you spend your day as a black man in Oakland and report to the board how the experience was. Maybe you can dress up like that Rachel Dolezal to get the authentic feel.
Unless you're all talk and no substance...  :-*
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on June 16, 2015, 05:16:00 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 15, 2015, 06:34:21 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on June 15, 2015, 04:53:30 AM
I would propose industry experts run things and politicians hold them accountable.

That's pretty much how local government already works in the states. Professional city staff do the technical homework, they produce reports and make their recommendations.

Council meetings are then held in public, city staff are represented by the city manager and city attorney. Elected council members can ask questions of city staff on their recommendations, members of the public can make their comments, and council votes on it.

Nah Eammon its not. They provide their recommendations based on their professional opinion. However then the politicians get to make the  decision based on whether or not they think this will help or dent their and their party colleagues chances of getting reelected. Its not about what is actually best for the community they are serving is about what is best for the politicians, the only time they are likely to make a decision that would be contrary to the opinion of their electorate is to line their own pockets
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2015, 07:09:46 AM
Good man, Fox. So now you want me to do the blackface thing as well, eh?

Maybe now would be a good time for you to tell us what point you're trying to make, because I'm damned if I know what you're waffling about.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 16, 2015, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 16, 2015, 07:09:46 AM
Good man, Fox. So now you want me to do the blackface thing as well, eh?

Maybe now would be a good time for you to tell us what point you're trying to make, because I'm damned if I know what you're waffling about.

You should try reading the thread again including my last post. Instructions were on there.
Don't ask someone to do something if you're not prepared to do it yourself first.....

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 04:48:46 AM
You're talking through your hat. You're telling me I need to go to Oakland, and live there disguised as a black man in order to have empathy for black people.

The fatal hole in that argument is that I need to do no such thing.  I already have said empathy for what they're going through. You clearly don't, as is evidenced by your simplistic "all you have to do is not break the law and you'll be fine" mantra.  If anybody needs to move to Oakland and live there disguised as a black man it's you, because you don't seem to have the empathy and compassion that decent human beings have.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 17, 2015, 06:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 04:48:46 AM
You're talking through your hat. You're telling me I need to go to Oakland, and live there disguised as a black man in order to have empathy for black people.

The fatal hole in that argument is that I need to do no such thing.  I already have said empathy for what they're going through. You clearly don't, as is evidenced by your simplistic "all you have to do is not break the law and you'll be fine" mantra.  If anybody needs to move to Oakland and live there disguised as a black man it's you, because you don't seem to have the empathy and compassion that decent human beings have.

I never said empathy.

Again more twisting and half-truths. People here can read you know.
You mentioned walking in another mans shoes to see how police would treat you if you weren't white. Go for it. Can't wait for the report. What part of Oakland will you be going to or should I mind my own business still?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 06:03:17 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 18, 2015, 04:20:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 06:03:17 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.

I wasn't telling you to go blacked-up to a poor Oakland neighbourhood to empathise with the local population.
I was kinda hoping you would go so you'd get your self-righteous ass pistol-whipped  ;D

But you knew not to go already......
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on June 22, 2015, 10:09:29 PM
http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/ (http://www.thejournal.ie/chicago-cop-shooting-at-car-2173808-Jun2015/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on June 24, 2015, 05:02:25 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 18, 2015, 04:20:33 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on June 17, 2015, 06:03:17 AM
"Walking in another man's shoes" is another way of saying "empathy," Mr Rumsfeld.

I wasn't telling you to go blacked-up to a poor Oakland neighbourhood to empathise with the local population.
I was kinda hoping you would go so you'd get your self-righteous ass pistol-whipped  ;D

But you knew not to go already......

Haven't heard from you in a while Eamonn, are you still safe and sound? - you didn't head over from the comfort of those nice SF Bistros and Gastropubs to prove your point did you?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on August 12, 2015, 08:03:45 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/05/woman-drives-car-into-goodwill.ktrk/video/playlists/caught-on-camera/ (http://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/08/05/woman-drives-car-into-goodwill.ktrk/video/playlists/caught-on-camera/)

Bizzarre confrontation between a cop and, well, it is hard to tell. Thankfully it didn't escalate.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 10, 2015, 01:20:02 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 10, 2015, 01:41:35 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 10, 2015, 01:20:02 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0910/726884-james-blake/)

Should arrest more tennis players.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 12, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
Video of that 'arrest': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmR3zoD5ag (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmR3zoD5ag)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34751128

Where do you go from here?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 07:24:42 PM
Good Jesus, that is terrible. God rest his soul.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 07:54:37 PM
To answer your question "Where do you go from here?" - hope that the police force pursuing his killers are dedicated, efficient and implacable in their purpose. If, however, you are implying, Fox, that the savagery of this crime indicates a community which cannot be policed, then I'd have to disagree. You could never convince me that 99.999% of Chicago's population feel anything but revulsion and disgust for this act. But again, if that is not what you are implying (and it would be helpful if you clarified exactly what your question means) I am happy to be corrected. I do feel that this crime has very little to do with what we have been discussing on this thread, unless the implication I sense from your statement is actually the case.

The reason we hold police in democratic societies to higher standards of behaviour is for exactly situations like this. If they have the support and trust of the community, they have better odds of bringing these evil people to justice. If they have squandered that trust (and it certainly seems in America that trust between law enforcement agencies and the black community in particular is at a generational low) then not only is the crime harder to solve but the everyday life of the citizens is immeasurably deteriorated.

Finally, as absolutely awful as this act was ("unfathomable" was very apt) it does not nor should it be used to, extrapolate an entire community's behaviour. A large amount of mass shootings in America are carried out by young Caucasian men (with some notable exceptions). It doesn't tell us anything about those men as a demographic.

Everyone knows about Chicago's problem with crime and shootings - and perhaps the only sensible things you can take from the data is that poverty and the lack of economic opportunity lead to increased criminal behaviour (no brainer) and the easy availability of firearms increase the level of violence involved in criminal acts (even more of a no brainer, and I think I posted some figures on this earlier in the thread, or some thread related).

I would not want to have to police the South Side of Chicago - I think at times it would be a dangerous and thankless task. I equally would not want to live there in poverty, with very little societal support. And I especially wouldn't want the horrific death of a family member to be used a cheap debating point, proving that my own commmunity were incapable of acting in a civilized manner. Which I hope you're not doing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 07:59:19 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 07:54:37 PM
To answer your question "Where do you go from here?" - hope that the police force pursuing his killers are dedicated, efficient and implacable in their purpose. If, however, you are implying, Fox, that the savagery of this crime indicates a community which cannot be policed, then I'd have to disagree. You could never convince me that 99.999% of Chicago's population feel anything but revulsion and disgust for this act. But again, if that is not what you are implying (and it would be helpful if you clarified exactly what your question means) I am happy to be corrected. I do feel that this crime has very little to do with what we have been discussing on this thread, unless the implication I sense from your statement is actually the case.

The reason we hold police in democratic societies to higher standards of behaviour is for exactly situations like this. If they have the support and trust of the community, they have better odds of bringing these evil people to justice. If they have squandered that trust (and it certainly seems in America that trust between law enforcement agencies and the black community in particular is at a generational low) then not only is the crime harder to solve but the everyday life of the citizens is immeasurably deteriorated.

Finally, as absolutely awful as this act was ("unfathomable" was very apt) it does not nor should it be used to, extrapolate an entire community's behaviour. A large amount of mass shootings in America are carried out by young Caucasian men (with some notable exceptions). It doesn't tell us anything about those men as a demographic.

Everyone knows about Chicago's problem with crime and shootings - and perhaps the only sensible things you can take from the data is that poverty and the lack of economic opportunity lead to increased criminal behaviour (no brainer) and the easy availability of firearms increase the level of violence involved in criminal acts (even more of a no brainer, and I think I posted some figures on this earlier in the thread, or some thread related).

I would not want to have to police the South Side of Chicago - I think at times it would be a dangerous and thankless task. I equally would not want to live there in poverty, with very little societal support. And I especially wouldn't want the horrific death of a family member to be used a cheap debating point, proving that my own commmunity were incapable of acting in a civilized manner. Which I hope you're not doing.

I can do what I like, thank you for your concern.

How are the police supposed to keep law and order on a population that has absolutely no rules and respect.
If they are capable of this.....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 07, 2015, 11:10:06 PM
At least some are charged with their acts

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34754889
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 08, 2015, 03:25:12 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

I see you've pulled out the "R" card pretty easily to my response about law and order. And even if I was how does this affect you?
Are you faux morally outraged??

Your conditioning by the thought police/PC brigade has rendered you unable to see issues as they are in case you get labelled. Such ignorance makes allowances for criminal behavior which shouldn't be tolerated. The police have a tough job but in your eyes anyone who backs them is wrong in your opinion.

No wonder society is going to the dogs.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 08, 2015, 05:26:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 07, 2015, 07:59:19 PM
How are the police supposed to keep law and order on a population that has absolutely no rules and respect.
If they are capable of this.....

To which population are you referring?

I wonder...

Maybe you mean Chicago? Illinois? United States?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Harold Disgracey on November 08, 2015, 08:30:23 PM
Absolutely no justification for this and yes the victims were black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVuyO85cINg&sns=em
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 09, 2015, 06:10:57 AM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

(http://www.teleread.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/a09bc_worlds-smallest-violin.jpeg)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2015, 08:41:17 AM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

You understand what the Republican Southern Strategy was, don't...


Oh wait, why do I bother? Of course you don't.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:11:30 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjABahUKEwjqmry5_4LJAhXEtQ8KHUBJBqE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenation.com%2Farticle%2Fexclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy%2F&usg=AFQjCNFUxueXNMe4t_VDtD2LoV4KKB8ZKg&bvm=bv.106923889,d.ZWU
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 07, 2015, 08:09:42 PM
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

You're using the incredibly tragic death of a young child to advance a racist viewpoint. I'd say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you know the meaning of the word "shame". I see on other threads you are encouraging other posters to go in blackface. You are the one with "no rules or respect" for either the users of this board, the black community in general, and, at the very base of it, I doubt you have much of it for yourself either.

You have a nice Saturday night.

It is open season on conservatives on this site, Chicago is Obama's stomping ground and being a conservative does not a racist make, please remember that the democrats were the plantation owners, you know, the lads than owned slaves, it was a republican who changed that dynamic!

Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

FFS Stew, Lincoln  was 150 years ago, and is viewed with extreme  hostility  by a substantial  part of the "states rights"-loving GOP base these days, you know, the ones who try to deny the role of slavery as the primary  cause of the civil war.

And even if that WEREN'T  the case,  the racists deserted the Democrats and moved, en masse, to the GOP, between Goldwater and Reagan. It wasn't the equivalent  of modern liberal  Democrats who were lynching  and turning hoses on civil rights activists  and regular  black people .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2015, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

While looking for something else (Muslim sportsman who refused to stand for the National Anthem) I found this site:

I know it isn't connected to the thread but some of the 'headlines' are priceless:

http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/ (http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/)

Evidence Emerges That Michelle Obama Never Birthed Malia And...

NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips...

Hillary Clinton Is OFFICIALLY Getting Charged With THIS... Her Campaigned Is Ruined..

Heroic Man Shuts Down 27,000 Mosques For THIS Reason...


It is like Waterford Whisper News, without the humour. But no matter how insane, or blatantly obvious, the naked hatred appears, you can see this sort of stuff works on some people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 03:31:52 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

While looking for something else (Muslim sportsman who refused to stand for the National Anthem) I found this site:

I know it isn't connected to the thread but some of the 'headlines' are priceless:

http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/ (http://theuspatriot.com/2015/03/07/muslim-nba-player-refuses-to-stand-for-national-anthem-for-this-disgusting-reason/)

Evidence Emerges That Michelle Obama Never Birthed Malia And...

NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips...

Hillary Clinton Is OFFICIALLY Getting Charged With THIS... Her Campaigned Is Ruined..

Heroic Man Shuts Down 27,000 Mosques For THIS Reason...


It is like Waterford Whisper News, without the humour. But no matter how insane, or blatantly obvious, the naked hatred appears, you can see this sort of stuff works on some people.

f**k me. .. the comments on the Dion Waiters article!  :o

I wouldn't  mind, but the incident  occurred , and he issued a denial, four months before these halfwits discovered it! ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 09, 2015, 09:26:27 PM
That was written by an education professional? Holy f**k.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 09, 2015, 10:15:38 PM
 
Quote from: stew on November 09, 2015, 01:21:56 AM
Clinton is going to win the presidency, it will be the single worst Presidency this country has ever seen, the bias in this country pertaining to the media is disgusting and the sheep will follow, journalistic integrity is dead and has been for decades, socialism in this country will bankrupt and destroy it, that is all.

Socialism might destroy the country, but it is very doubt if Clinton will introduce anything of the sort.

Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 03:31:52 PM
NBC Claims All Americans Will Be Implanted With Microchips...

FFS, they are struggling to get microchips in their credit cards!



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 10, 2015, 02:55:57 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 09, 2015, 09:14:42 AM
You should read that Stew - and it is exactly the same thing that Foxcommander is doing in his posts.

You still got faux outrage? As I said why do you get your panties in a twist?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 01:39:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

And not everyone is happy about the metal detectors

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6735290
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.
.

Vast majority of their funding comes from individual members

http://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/

And the other side of the argument to give some balance

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/13392



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 07:01:53 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

Ah ok. I misunderstood.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 07:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!

Actually the CNN piece lays it out pretty clearly that while Corp donations are important they are dwarfed by the individual contributions.  And CNN would hardly be viewed as a friend by the NRA

I'm sure there are some contributions that may fall into that gray area, but from what I have read, and from people I know who are NRA members,  contributions (both direct and indirect) from corporations are DWARFED by those of individual members

Just out of curiosity, what are you implying when you say "just look at whee the NRA gets its funding".
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 08:42:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 07:16:34 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 06:25:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 05:15:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 05:06:00 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 01:22:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:25:51 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 09, 2015, 11:24:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 09, 2015, 09:47:08 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:06:01 PM
Just received the attached email from the school Dept....thought it may be of interest to those who seem confused by police procedures after a school shooting


Dear Parents and Guardians, You are invited to attend a Parent Information Night focused on the Enhanced Lockdown practices and procedures that will be used in our school district. The meeting has been scheduled on November ...... 2015. The meeting will be held at the school in the cafetorium starting at 6:30 pm. Officer Williams will facilitate this meeting with the school administrators. Officer Williams will explain the Lockdown procedures and will answer any questions that the members of the audience may have. Officer Williams will speak to the students at each school following the Parent Information Night. A practice drill with the students will be scheduled at both schools following the informational sessions with Officer Williams.We hope that you will be able to join us

I went through this in work last year. We had an actual full day with class and a drill, complete with real state cops and everything! We then had to produce an active shooter plan for our specific office, which included an inspection by local police.

Sadly, preparing for this type of eventuality is simply something you need to do these days in the states, particularly when you work in certain jobs which might make you a target.

School is doing the right thing here, just like when they used to drill for nuclear bombs back in the 60s or earthquakes out west.

The school is doing what it has to do. No problem there.

But the solution to the nuclear bomb threat was dialogue and disarmament, oh and token drills.

The solution to earthquakes is better infrastructure, early warnings and yes drills.

The solution to school shootings.............is only drills?

Well, some schools, especially  in poor minority  neighbourhoods, have security  and metal detection stations to try to control students  bringing  in weapons.  Beyond that, the NRA won't allow much else, except  maybe arming all teachers and adult students!

I didn't even want to go there.

Are these the most stupid people ever created?

For example, why is it, especially after 911, that the NRA weren't campaigning for every airline to put a loaded gun under every seat?

I would suggest looking at where the NRA get their funding.

Honestly don't see the difference between calling for everyone in one soft target (schools) to be armed and remaining silent on another soft target (airplanes), from the NRA POV.

Of course attacks on the latter don't see calls for a ban on guns, so they have no interest in those 'bad guys'.

And Whitey, how does the NRA balance with Democracynow? I had never heard of them until I just looked them up, but they are wildly opinionated journalists at worst. Not people supporting frequent mass shootings.
CNN reported it one way.....Democracynow reported it another....read both sides and make up your own mind where he NRA get their money. That is the balance I am referring to

So between the PAC, the lobbying section, the small donators  and the hidden corporate dark money, no one REALLY knows where the funding comes from!

Actually the CNN piece lays it out pretty clearly that while Corp donations are important they are dwarfed by the individual contributions.  And CNN would hardly be viewed as a friend by the NRA

I'm sure there are some contributions that may fall into that gray area, but from what I have read, and from people I know who are NRA members,  contributions (both direct and indirect) from corporations are DWARFED by those of individual members

Just out of curiosity, what are you implying when you say "just look at whee the NRA gets its funding".

I didn't find the CNN piece clear-cut at all.

Wasn't implying anything - just merely observing that the NRA's motives and campaigns were very probably dictated by the sources of their money. I'd no idea (and still dont after reading  those pieces!) where the bulk of their funding  comes from.

"Follow the money" is always safe advice!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 10, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
So a white College official is branded a racist by black students, some of whom are on the football team, they decide to hold the University hostage and refuse to play despite offering no proof that the man is a racist, in fairness they claim he is not doing enough to rid racism from the campus.

One kid goes on hunger strike to get him ousted and he invariably quits, caving to the pressure.

The lunatic left is running the asylum, now the Chancellor has resigned the day as well.


Limbaugh is claiming that the guy was fired for being white, as for me, I do not know if he was a racist but students making decisions on faculty could only happen under this President, it is madness!

I would have thought an investigation appropriate, and any student on a scholarship under me that told me they were refusing to play would have had their scholarship pulled as soon as they missed a practice!

These are dangerous times here in the States, this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 10, 2015, 09:33:54 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

Stew,
Obama may be the face of the country, but the large corporations are the ones first swaying and secondly pushing the big decisions, either through direct lobbying, or by influence through political donations. Look at the tax code for the evidence...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 09:34:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
So a white College official is branded a racist by black students, some of whom are on the football team, they decide to hold the University hostage and refuse to play despite offering no proof that the man is a racist, in fairness they claim he is not doing enough to rid racism from the campus.

One kid goes on hunger strike to get him ousted and he invariably quits, caving to the pressure.

The lunatic left is running the asylum, now the Chancellor has resigned the day as well.


Limbaugh is claiming that the guy was fired for being white, as for me, I do not know if he was a racist but students making decisions on faculty could only happen under this President, it is madness!

I would have thought an investigation appropriate, and any student on a scholarship under me that told me they were refusing to play would have had their scholarship pulled as soon as they missed a practice!

These are dangerous times here in the States, this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

I thought he resigned because, heaven help us, the football team refused to play due to his complete  lack of action in the face of some racist incidents on campus?

The sad part of this, to me, is how college authorities would only react once the cash cow football  team threatened to withdraw their services.

What in the name of Jesus does Obama have to do with it? Or is it those uppity blacks refusing to accept racist acts that is the problem?

Dangerous  times??? ;D

And seriously... Limbaugh ???
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

Stew, are you seriously suggesting that students protesting is evidence that Obama has destroyed the world?

This may come as a shock to you, but the words 'students' and 'protest' have appeared together before y'know.




Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 10, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxAHODo5Ds

Very reasonable people thsoe Missouri protesters-LOL
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

Fcuk sake, really? Here we go, weak on foreign policy, a liar on Benghazi, he gave up 5 or 6 top Al Queda for one American defector! He tells the enemy he is sending 50 of his top men in to a war zone, announces it on tv the stoopid fooker!The trillions he has heaped on the national debt, more then everyone else before him, forcing Obamacare on some who cannot afford it but have o have it, the way Obamacare was rolled out, the way he has done fack all about the Israeli's, the fact that the number of homeless people has gone up in his tenure.

That should keep you going for a while!

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .

He has credibility you numpty, the numbers do not lie ffs.

Rabble rousing is not solely the dominion of the right, the left are doing a great job of rabble rousing at the minute themselves don't you think?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 10, 2015, 11:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxAHODo5Ds

Very reasonable people thsoe Missouri protesters-LOL

Wow!

I have never seen such carnage.

Unbelievable that this is even mentioned in the same breath as minor events like mass shooting in schools.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on November 10, 2015, 11:38:51 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

Fcuk sake, really? Here we go, weak on foreign policy, a liar on Benghazi, he gave up 5 or 6 top Al Queda for one American defector! He tells the enemy he is sending 50 of his top men in to a war zone, announces it on tv the stoopid fooker!The trillions he has heaped on the national debt, more then everyone else before him, forcing Obamacare on some who cannot afford it but have o have it, the way Obamacare was rolled out, the way he has done fack all about the Israeli's, the fact that the number of homeless people has gone up in his tenure.

That should keep you going for a while!

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .

He has credibility you numpty, the numbers do not lie ffs.

Rabble rousing is not solely the dominion of the right, the left are doing a great job of rabble rousing at the minute themselves don't you think?

Trump has numbers too is he credible??

Lady GAA Ga has 52.2m followers on Twitter does that make her credible? Numbers mean very little the quality of what you do and say is what makes you credible!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2015, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 11:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxAHODo5Ds

Very reasonable people thsoe Missouri protesters-LOL

Wow!

I have never seen such carnage.

Unbelievable that this is even mentioned in the same breath as minor events like mass shooting in schools.

Little thing called the First Amendment.
http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/university_of_missouri_protests_first_amendment.php
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 02:11:35 AM
To be fair, I don't know what kind of source the CJR is, but it seems self evident that this photo journalist had every right to try and document what was a public demonstration. Whilst I would have a "liberal" bent myself, this is People's Front of Judea type stuff.

Don't get me wrong - I fundamentally believe that "PC" (which, at its heart, is a plea for good manners and tolerance towards others) has done immensely more harm than good, but the self righteousness and lack of awareness on display by the protestors (again if the source and video are borne out) is very disappointing.

Still don't know what Obama has to do with it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 02:19:59 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

Fcuk sake, really? Here we go, weak on foreign policy, a liar on Benghazi, he gave up 5 or 6 top Al Queda for one American defector! He tells the enemy he is sending 50 of his top men in to a war zone, announces it on tv the stoopid fooker!The trillions he has heaped on the national debt, more then everyone else before him, forcing Obamacare on some who cannot afford it but have o have it, the way Obamacare was rolled out, the way he has done fack all about the Israeli's, the fact that the number of homeless people has gone up in his tenure.

That should keep you going for a while!

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .

He has credibility you numpty, the numbers do not lie ffs.

Rabble rousing is not solely the dominion of the right, the left are doing a great job of rabble rousing at the minute themselves don't you think?

Sure if numbers is the determinant, then creationism must be credible too.

And I never said only the right rabble rouse. I said Limbaugh is a rabble  rouser.

But if you have issues with leftists rabble rousing, then bring them up.

As for your Obama rant (but... but... Benghazi!!!), once again, what is the connection to this Missouri  story?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:39:23 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 02:11:35 AM
To be fair, I don't know what kind of source the CJR is, but it seems self evident that this photo journalist had every right to try and document what was a public demonstration. Whilst I would have a "liberal" bent myself, this is People's Front of Judea type stuff.

Don't get me wrong - I fundamentally believe that "PC" (which, at its heart, is a plea for good manners and tolerance towards others) has done immensely more harm than good, but the self righteousness and lack of awareness on display by the protestors (again if the source and video are borne out) is very disappointing.

Still don't know what Obama has to do with it.


Columbia Journalism Review would be a non partisan source IMHO....quite well regarded by most

("The Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism is one of the professional graduate schools of Columbia University. Located in the Morningside Heights neighborhood of New York City, it is the only journalism school in the Ivy League and one of the oldest in the United States and the world. The school was founded by Joseph Pulitzer in 1912, and offers Master of Science and Master of Arts degrees in journalism as well as a Ph.D. in communications.

In addition to graduate degree programs, the Journalism School houses the Pulitzer Prizes and administers several prizes, including the Alfred I. duPont–Columbia University Award. It also co-sponsors the National Magazine Awards and publishes the Columbia Journalism Review, essentially a trade publication for journalists")

I dont think any sane or fair person would condone oppression or repression of any description, but if these protesters continue along THIS path they will do their cause more way harm than good.

Theres a big beef going on up at Yale right now too, and while Im sure some of the initial grievances are legit its now bordering on insane.

Someone else brought Obama into it...not me
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omochain on November 11, 2015, 05:48:38 AM
Stew.... I have been silent for about 5 years ... hoping that you would decide that Limbaugh is not a nice person,... of your own volition!!!!! But alas my hopes are as always are off the mark.  :o
BTW hope your health is good
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 02:19:59 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

Fcuk sake, really? Here we go, weak on foreign policy, a liar on Benghazi, he gave up 5 or 6 top Al Queda for one American defector! He tells the enemy he is sending 50 of his top men in to a war zone, announces it on tv the stoopid fooker!The trillions he has heaped on the national debt, more then everyone else before him, forcing Obamacare on some who cannot afford it but have o have it, the way Obamacare was rolled out, the way he has done fack all about the Israeli's, the fact that the number of homeless people has gone up in his tenure.

That should keep you going for a while!

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .

He has credibility you numpty, the numbers do not lie ffs.

Rabble rousing is not solely the dominion of the right, the left are doing a great job of rabble rousing at the minute themselves don't you think?

Sure if numbers is the determinant, then creationism must be credible too.

And I never said only the right rabble rouse. I said Limbaugh is a rabble  rouser.

But if you have issues with leftists rabble rousing, then bring them up.

As for your Obama rant (but... but... Benghazi!!!), once again, what is the connection to this Missouri  story?

See this is were you liberals get caught with your knickers down around your ankles, I never said but ...but .... benghazi, I was asked what my problem with Obama was and wrote a lot more than benghazi.

I do find it interesting however that apart from lying about what I wrote you went straight to Benghazi,.

Don't make yourself out to be a liar, you have lost when you lie about what is written.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:57:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 11:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxAHODo5Ds

Very reasonable people thsoe Missouri protesters-LOL

Wow!

I have never seen such carnage.

Unbelievable that this is even mentioned in the same breath as minor events like mass shooting in schools.

Little thing called the First Amendment.
http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/university_of_missouri_protests_first_amendment.php

I am no fan of limbaugh, he is brash and arrogant these days but only a fool thinks he has no credibility, he is a very powerful voice with an audience in the tens of millions.

Lady gaga is not either running for the presidency not does she have a massive Polk so forum from which she espouses her political bent, you need to do better.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 11, 2015, 10:07:06 AM
Quote from: omochain on November 11, 2015, 05:48:38 AM
Stew.... I have been silent for about 5 years ... hoping that you would decide that Limbaugh is not a nice person,... of your own volition!!!!! But alas my hopes are as always are off the mark.  :o
BTW hope your health is good

Limbaugh is not a good guy but he is a very powerful one and I do agree with him,on the issue of these students determining faculty is madness frankly.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 11, 2015, 10:33:01 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 09:15:15 PM
So a white College official is branded a racist by black students, some of whom are on the football team, they decide to hold the University hostage and refuse to play despite offering no proof that the man is a racist, in fairness they claim he is not doing enough to rid racism from the campus.

One kid goes on hunger strike to get him ousted and he invariably quits, caving to the pressure.

The lunatic left is running the asylum, now the Chancellor has resigned the day as well.


Limbaugh is claiming that the guy was fired for being white, as for me, I do not know if he was a racist but students making decisions on faculty could only happen under this President, it is madness!

I would have thought an investigation appropriate, and any student on a scholarship under me that told me they were refusing to play would have had their scholarship pulled as soon as they missed a practice!

These are dangerous times here in the States, this country is getting more and more effed up by the day under Obama.

Did you not write this Stew?

You brought up the story. You pointed to it as evidence of 'dangerous times'. And in the same sentence you blamed Obama.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 11:09:52 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:53:48 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 02:19:59 AM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 10, 2015, 10:34:21 PM
Quote from: stew on November 10, 2015, 10:18:03 PM
Uppity blacks? You said that I did not.

The problem here is that the students are now determining who has a job and who does not, they have castigated this guy and called him a racist? Where is the proof?

Again their claims should have been investigated but you cannot allow students to be deciding who has a job and who does not.

By the way, people of all races were involved.

Finally, Limbaugh hosts the biggest radio show in the country so yeah, Limbaugh, you might not like him but he is a powerful republican voice.

So what is the connection with Obama then?

Fcuk sake, really? Here we go, weak on foreign policy, a liar on Benghazi, he gave up 5 or 6 top Al Queda for one American defector! He tells the enemy he is sending 50 of his top men in to a war zone, announces it on tv the stoopid fooker!The trillions he has heaped on the national debt, more then everyone else before him, forcing Obamacare on some who cannot afford it but have o have it, the way Obamacare was rolled out, the way he has done fack all about the Israeli's, the fact that the number of homeless people has gone up in his tenure.

That should keep you going for a while!

And I don't care how "powerful " Limbaugh  is. A credible, reasonable, intelligent  commentator he is not. An expert in demagoguery, rabble rousing and anti-intellectualism, absolutely .

He has credibility you numpty, the numbers do not lie ffs.

Rabble rousing is not solely the dominion of the right, the left are doing a great job of rabble rousing at the minute themselves don't you think?

Sure if numbers is the determinant, then creationism must be credible too.

And I never said only the right rabble rouse. I said Limbaugh is a rabble  rouser.

But if you have issues with leftists rabble rousing, then bring them up.

As for your Obama rant (but... but... Benghazi!!!), once again, what is the connection to this Missouri  story?

See this is were you liberals get caught with your knickers down around your ankles, I never said but ...but .... benghazi, I was asked what my problem with Obama was and wrote a lot more than benghazi.

I do find it interesting however that apart from lying about what I wrote you went straight to Benghazi,.

Don't make yourself out to be a liar, you have lost when you lie about what is written.

Spare me the sanctimony. I can hardly be misrepresenting what you said when I quoted it FFS.

The point about the "but...but...Benghazi" bit is that right wingers haven't shut up about for the past three years, even as investigation after investigation has found nothing criminal or illegal. And here we are talking about a bunch of college footballers in Missouri precipitating the resignation of their university president, and you somehow (in a way you've yet to explain) connect it to Obama and Benghazi. So what the f**k has Obama or any of the other shite you posted got to do with the story?

And on the rest of the stuff... we tried to discuss this with you, ad nauseum, a few weeks back. I asked you repeatedly what Obama should have done with the deficit and the rest in the circumstances in which he was elected, and you came up with nothing.

If you want to revisit the discussion, fine. Things like homelessness are going to rise during a historical financial collapse you know. The country was in economic freefall, losing 800,000 jobs a month when Obama was sworn in.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:57:36 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 12:19:19 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 10, 2015, 11:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 10, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sTxAHODo5Ds

Very reasonable people thsoe Missouri protesters-LOL

Wow!

I have never seen such carnage.

Unbelievable that this is even mentioned in the same breath as minor events like mass shooting in schools.

Little thing called the First Amendment.
http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/university_of_missouri_protests_first_amendment.php

I am no fan of limbaugh, he is brash and arrogant these days but only a fool thinks he has no credibility, he is a very powerful voice with an audience in the tens of millions.

Lady gaga is not either running for the presidency not does she have a massive Polk so forum from which she espouses her political bent, you need to do better.

Ok, maybe he has "credibility" with a certain segment of the population. He tells them what they want to hear. Government and minorities and gays and environmentalists are to blame for all their problems. Hitler had credibility with a lot of Germans in the 1930s. Doesn't make what they say true though.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: deiseach on November 11, 2015, 03:04:38 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Well said, Lord Widgery.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 11, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM


Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they the police had obeyed the law.


Fixed that for you
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Yes, because one or two frivolous complaints (assuming for the sake of argument you are correct) delegitimizes everything else.

Away back to Fox News with you...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.

May I be bold enough to suggest you actually spend 5 minutes reading about what happened (2.5 mins from each side) before you get on your high horse
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:43:39 PM
The Hunger Striker, you know, the Mizzou hunger striker who feels he is being kept down by the white man, Guess what?

BREAKING NEWS: You know Jonathan Butler, the Mizzou student that started a hunger strike because he wanted the school's president fired for something he had no part in? It turns out he comes from a family with a net worth of over $20 million!!!
http://people.equilar.com/.../eric-butler-unio.../salary/690589...

Give that man a polo mint!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

I will answer it for you then, given that scenario he would absolutely have a case to answer, is that exactly how it went down?

If it is he is a bad cop that needs to go away for a long time, there are scumbags in every strata of society just as there are scumbags in every job on the planet, thankfully there are a lot more decent people than the former.

Drug dealing bullies, if they are hurting people, especially cops should be taken down alive if possible, if not, better him or her than the peeler.

Drug dealers are scumbags, they know the risks and I would shed no tears for any drug dealing piece of crap that peddles misery.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.

May I be bold enough to suggest you actually spend 5 minutes reading about what happened (2.5 mins from each side) before you get on your high horse

I have read about what happened from various different sources, but I think you're taking up my post in a manner it wasn't intended (probably my writing more than anything else). I shouldn't have said institutions such as Yale and Mizzou in the last paragraph above as it gives the impression I'm referring specifically to these recent incidents - I'm not.

So, just to be clear, what I'm saying is that it is perfectly understandable for black people to horribly offended by white people in black face. It happens every year around this time, on campus and off, and the ubiquity of social media means it gets highlighted a lot more. People need to cop on and consider the feelings of others, and that's just basic Civics 101.And I stand by what I say, that these smaller acts of ignorance make it possible for an atmosphere to exist in which racism can flourish - again, either on campus or off.

As for the instances of frat house racism, there have been so many caught in the past year on social media, SAE in Oklahoma City being the most obvious.

Which leads me to the specifics of the Yale situation. With regard to the emails from Howard and then Christiakis - firstly, I think Howard's was badly worded, and in trying to close off any avenue where the college could be criticised, came across as overly proscriptive and certainly open to mockery. But Christiakis' reply reminds me of an old quote about feuds in academic institutions - "they are so bitter because there is so little at stake." Christiakis writes like that, as if the ideals she is lauding like the First Amendment, have no limits in the real world. As everyone knows, and as i have posted before, there is no right to absolute free speech (the old shouting fire in the theatre metaphor) and on a mixed campus, respect for others sensitivities is a civilising force.

Also, her call out to the need for universities to be a space to be transgressive, is actually the worse kind of white privilege excess. In the sixties students transgressed by having sex, dropping acid and dropping out - they were transgressing against a system and "punching up" as it were. Asking for students to be allowed to transgress by having the freedom to mock a minority is "punching down".

However, her thinking is just muddled enough for me to think she is just genuinely out of touch and should not have to lose her job. She thinks she is fighting for free speech and i think she would be appalled to be thought of as racist.

As for the frat party, there are loads of conflicting accounts, and given what SAE did at Oklahoma last year, i think it would be fairly easy for any refusal to be given as dark an interpretation as possible. I'm not saying it did not happen, I'm just saying there is a reasonable doubt. I don't think the particular chapter should be disbanded (in as much as I'd think the entire Greek system should be disbanded) but given the reputation it has nationally now, I'd say SAE is probably a dead duck.

There are so many racial problems in America now that are feeding into these specific cases, I just think it is oversimplifying to think of it as false victimhood. There are too many examples of dead victims nationally to dismiss.

Also, no high horse. I love America, always have, lived there for a year in the late 90s and I have always promised myself that I'd get back there for a long trip again (which I hope to do next year).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 11, 2015, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.

May I be bold enough to suggest you actually spend 5 minutes reading about what happened (2.5 mins from each side) before you get on your high horse

I have read about what happened from various different sources, but I think you're taking up my post in a manner it wasn't intended (probably my writing more than anything else). I shouldn't have said institutions such as Yale and Mizzou in the last paragraph above as it gives the impression I'm referring specifically to these recent incidents - I'm not.

So, just to be clear, what I'm saying is that it is perfectly understandable for black people to horribly offended by white people in black face. It happens every year around this time, on campus and off, and the ubiquity of social media means it gets highlighted a lot more. People need to cop on and consider the feelings of others, and that's just basic Civics 101.And I stand by what I say, that these smaller acts of ignorance make it possible for an atmosphere to exist in which racism can flourish - again, either on campus or off.

As for the instances of frat house racism, there have been so many caught in the past year on social media, SAE in Oklahoma City being the most obvious.

Which leads me to the specifics of the Yale situation. With regard to the emails from Howard and then Christiakis - firstly, I think Howard's was badly worded, and in trying to close off any avenue where the college could be criticised, came across as overly proscriptive and certainly open to mockery. But Christiakis' reply reminds me of an old quote about feuds in academic institutions - "they are so bitter because there is so little at stake." Christiakis writes like that, as if the ideals she is lauding like the First Amendment, have no limits in the real world. As everyone knows, and as i have posted before, there is no right to absolute free speech (the old shouting fire in the theatre metaphor) and on a mixed campus, respect for others sensitivities is a civilising force.

Also, her call out to the need for universities to be a space to be transgressive, is actually the worse kind of white privilege excess. In the sixties students transgressed by having sex, dropping acid and dropping out - they were transgressing against a system and "punching up" as it were. Asking for students to be allowed to transgress by having the freedom to mock a minority is "punching down".

However, her thinking is just muddled enough for me to think she is just genuinely out of touch and should not have to lose her job. She thinks she is fighting for free speech and i think she would be appalled to be thought of as racist.

As for the frat party, there are loads of conflicting accounts, and given what SAE did at Oklahoma last year, i think it would be fairly easy for any refusal to be given as dark an interpretation as possible. I'm not saying it did not happen, I'm just saying there is a reasonable doubt. I don't think the particular chapter should be disbanded (in as much as I'd think the entire Greek system should be disbanded) but given the reputation it has nationally now, I'd say SAE is probably a dead duck.

There are so many racial problems in America now that are feeding into these specific cases, I just think it is oversimplifying to think of it as false victimhood. There are too many examples of dead victims nationally to dismiss.

Also, no high horse. I love America, always have, lived there for a year in the late 90s and I have always promised myself that I'd get back there for a long trip again (which I hope to do next year).

The frat guy also  wouldn't let a gay guy in......I'm guessing he wouldnt have let a fat ugly white chick in either......I'm guessing he would t have let ME in.......just because the guy is a raving fvckin arsehole doesn't mean that this evidence of some institutionalize racism at Yale

The girl who reported it on Twitter wasnt even there....she heard it second hand....and an African Amerian frat member who was also manning the door supposedly said that it NEVER happened, (but now he's gone to ground-LOL) and there were plenty of Afican Americans admitted on the night

My point is that there's plenty of examples of REAL rascism that need to be addressed. Why waste your time on stupid crap such as this!!!!!!

It's widely acknowledged that these guys are assholes of the highest order.....why would highly educated accomplished people like these girls even lower themselves by going to their stupid fvckin Halloween Party. ( When I went to UCD there was a similar obnoxious D4 rugby clique who treated anyone from outside their circle with utter contempt and disdain)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.

Sure, you're a white guy who doesn't automatically elicit suspicion and fear on the part of the cops and gets the benefit of the doubt.

But its easy to single out Freddie Gray (although one is forced to wonder if you ever smoked a joint in your youth in Ireland, or done anything that involved illegal trade of some kind).

What about Eric Garner who was selling single smokes? The black guy in Walmart who was murdered for looking at an airgun. Or any of the numerous other black people murdered by cops whose cases have come to light over the past year thanks to mobile phones? 

In any case, there is nothing ridiculous about my question, but you can't even allow yourself to be seen to concede that that the cops would be in the wrong in my scenario.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:33:31 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:55:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

I will answer it for you then, given that scenario he would absolutely have a case to answer, is that exactly how it went down?

If it is he is a bad cop that needs to go away for a long time, there are scumbags in every strata of society just as there are scumbags in every job on the planet, thankfully there are a lot more decent people than the former.

Drug dealing bullies, if they are hurting people, especially cops should be taken down alive if possible, if not, better him or her than the peeler.

Drug dealers are scumbags, they know the risks and I would shed no tears for any drug dealing piece of crap that peddles misery.

And yet most of here have probably dabbled in some kind of drugs at some point in our lives. The drug trade doesn't function in a vacuum.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:38:15 AM
Quote from: stew on November 11, 2015, 09:43:39 PM
The Hunger Striker, you know, the Mizzou hunger striker who feels he is being kept down by the white man, Guess what?

BREAKING NEWS: You know Jonathan Butler, the Mizzou student that started a hunger strike because he wanted the school's president fired for something he had no part in? It turns out he comes from a family with a net worth of over $20 million!!!
http://people.equilar.com/.../eric-butler-unio.../salary/690589...

Give that man a polo mint!

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing your point.

What does his wealth have to do with the point he was making i.e. the university authorities were ignoring the racist incidents?

Link is dead BTW.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 01:43:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.

May I be bold enough to suggest you actually spend 5 minutes reading about what happened (2.5 mins from each side) before you get on your high horse

I have read about what happened from various different sources, but I think you're taking up my post in a manner it wasn't intended (probably my writing more than anything else). I shouldn't have said institutions such as Yale and Mizzou in the last paragraph above as it gives the impression I'm referring specifically to these recent incidents - I'm not.

So, just to be clear, what I'm saying is that it is perfectly understandable for black people to horribly offended by white people in black face. It happens every year around this time, on campus and off, and the ubiquity of social media means it gets highlighted a lot more. People need to cop on and consider the feelings of others, and that's just basic Civics 101.And I stand by what I say, that these smaller acts of ignorance make it possible for an atmosphere to exist in which racism can flourish - again, either on campus or off.

As for the instances of frat house racism, there have been so many caught in the past year on social media, SAE in Oklahoma City being the most obvious.

Which leads me to the specifics of the Yale situation. With regard to the emails from Howard and then Christiakis - firstly, I think Howard's was badly worded, and in trying to close off any avenue where the college could be criticised, came across as overly proscriptive and certainly open to mockery. But Christiakis' reply reminds me of an old quote about feuds in academic institutions - "they are so bitter because there is so little at stake." Christiakis writes like that, as if the ideals she is lauding like the First Amendment, have no limits in the real world. As everyone knows, and as i have posted before, there is no right to absolute free speech (the old shouting fire in the theatre metaphor) and on a mixed campus, respect for others sensitivities is a civilising force.

Also, her call out to the need for universities to be a space to be transgressive, is actually the worse kind of white privilege excess. In the sixties students transgressed by having sex, dropping acid and dropping out - they were transgressing against a system and "punching up" as it were. Asking for students to be allowed to transgress by having the freedom to mock a minority is "punching down".

However, her thinking is just muddled enough for me to think she is just genuinely out of touch and should not have to lose her job. She thinks she is fighting for free speech and i think she would be appalled to be thought of as racist.

As for the frat party, there are loads of conflicting accounts, and given what SAE did at Oklahoma last year, i think it would be fairly easy for any refusal to be given as dark an interpretation as possible. I'm not saying it did not happen, I'm just saying there is a reasonable doubt. I don't think the particular chapter should be disbanded (in as much as I'd think the entire Greek system should be disbanded) but given the reputation it has nationally now, I'd say SAE is probably a dead duck.

There are so many racial problems in America now that are feeding into these specific cases, I just think it is oversimplifying to think of it as false victimhood. There are too many examples of dead victims nationally to dismiss.

Also, no high horse. I love America, always have, lived there for a year in the late 90s and I have always promised myself that I'd get back there for a long trip again (which I hope to do next year).

The frat guy also  wouldn't let a gay guy in......I'm guessing he wouldnt have let a fat ugly white chick in either......I'm guessing he would t have let ME in.......just because the guy is a raving fvckin arsehole doesn't mean that this evidence of some institutionalize racism at Yale

The girl who reported it on Twitter wasnt even there....she heard it second hand....and an African Amerian frat member who was also manning the door supposedly said that it NEVER happened, (but now he's gone to ground-LOL) and there were plenty of Afican Americans admitted on the night

My point is that there's plenty of examples of REAL rascism that need to be addressed. Why waste your time on stupid crap such as this!!!!!!

It's widely acknowledged that these guys are assholes of the highest order.....why would highly educated accomplished people like these girls even lower themselves by going to their stupid fvckin Halloween Party. ( When I went to UCD there was a similar obnoxious D4 rugby clique who treated anyone from outside their circle with utter contempt and disdain)

Whitey is there a problem with your reading or my writing? Or do you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? I said above that there was a reasonable doubt that the incident had ever happened, and that the previous history of SAE on other campuses was probably colouring the perception of this particular chapter. I also said in brackets that I reckoned the entire greek system should be dismantled.

But...if it was true, then it would be an example of "real" racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 01:51:43 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 01:43:10 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 10:25:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 11, 2015, 05:13:05 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 11, 2015, 02:37:36 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

lol...if kicking up a stink about an email regarding Halloween costumes or a frat boy only allowing white girls into a keg party isn't false victimhood I don't know what is (Yale)

Whitey if people think in this day and age it is still ok to wear blackface or to refuse people entry to a party specifically because of their skin colour, that is not false victimhood. It is the smaller incidents such as these that enable the bigger ones to happen. Racism works by denying the humanity of those discriminated against and whilst the protestors at Mizzou might be oblivious to irony, the basic message of making campuses free from prejudice is laudable.

Civil rights activists died for the right of minorities to attend institutions such as Yale and Mizzou - letting white  frat boys roll back those freedoms just for the thrill of transgression is pathetic and the institutions should be responding in a far more aggressive manner to them.

May I be bold enough to suggest you actually spend 5 minutes reading about what happened (2.5 mins from each side) before you get on your high horse

I have read about what happened from various different sources, but I think you're taking up my post in a manner it wasn't intended (probably my writing more than anything else). I shouldn't have said institutions such as Yale and Mizzou in the last paragraph above as it gives the impression I'm referring specifically to these recent incidents - I'm not.

So, just to be clear, what I'm saying is that it is perfectly understandable for black people to horribly offended by white people in black face. It happens every year around this time, on campus and off, and the ubiquity of social media means it gets highlighted a lot more. People need to cop on and consider the feelings of others, and that's just basic Civics 101.And I stand by what I say, that these smaller acts of ignorance make it possible for an atmosphere to exist in which racism can flourish - again, either on campus or off.

As for the instances of frat house racism, there have been so many caught in the past year on social media, SAE in Oklahoma City being the most obvious.

Which leads me to the specifics of the Yale situation. With regard to the emails from Howard and then Christiakis - firstly, I think Howard's was badly worded, and in trying to close off any avenue where the college could be criticised, came across as overly proscriptive and certainly open to mockery. But Christiakis' reply reminds me of an old quote about feuds in academic institutions - "they are so bitter because there is so little at stake." Christiakis writes like that, as if the ideals she is lauding like the First Amendment, have no limits in the real world. As everyone knows, and as i have posted before, there is no right to absolute free speech (the old shouting fire in the theatre metaphor) and on a mixed campus, respect for others sensitivities is a civilising force.

Also, her call out to the need for universities to be a space to be transgressive, is actually the worse kind of white privilege excess. In the sixties students transgressed by having sex, dropping acid and dropping out - they were transgressing against a system and "punching up" as it were. Asking for students to be allowed to transgress by having the freedom to mock a minority is "punching down".

However, her thinking is just muddled enough for me to think she is just genuinely out of touch and should not have to lose her job. She thinks she is fighting for free speech and i think she would be appalled to be thought of as racist.

As for the frat party, there are loads of conflicting accounts, and given what SAE did at Oklahoma last year, i think it would be fairly easy for any refusal to be given as dark an interpretation as possible. I'm not saying it did not happen, I'm just saying there is a reasonable doubt. I don't think the particular chapter should be disbanded (in as much as I'd think the entire Greek system should be disbanded) but given the reputation it has nationally now, I'd say SAE is probably a dead duck.

There are so many racial problems in America now that are feeding into these specific cases, I just think it is oversimplifying to think of it as false victimhood. There are too many examples of dead victims nationally to dismiss.

Also, no high horse. I love America, always have, lived there for a year in the late 90s and I have always promised myself that I'd get back there for a long trip again (which I hope to do next year).

The frat guy also  wouldn't let a gay guy in......I'm guessing he wouldnt have let a fat ugly white chick in either......I'm guessing he would t have let ME in.......just because the guy is a raving fvckin arsehole doesn't mean that this evidence of some institutionalize racism at Yale

The girl who reported it on Twitter wasnt even there....she heard it second hand....and an African Amerian frat member who was also manning the door supposedly said that it NEVER happened, (but now he's gone to ground-LOL) and there were plenty of Afican Americans admitted on the night

My point is that there's plenty of examples of REAL rascism that need to be addressed. Why waste your time on stupid crap such as this!!!!!!

It's widely acknowledged that these guys are assholes of the highest order.....why would highly educated accomplished people like these girls even lower themselves by going to their stupid fvckin Halloween Party. ( When I went to UCD there was a similar obnoxious D4 rugby clique who treated anyone from outside their circle with utter contempt and disdain)

Whitey is there a problem with your reading or my writing? Or do you just want to argue for the sake of arguing? I said above that there was a reasonable doubt that the incident had ever happened, and that the previous history of SAE on other campuses was probably colouring the perception of this particular chapter. I also said in brackets that I reckoned the entire greek system should be dismantled.

But...if it was true, then it would be an example of "real" racism.

I'm agreeing with you......just expanding on the course of events for the benefit of those who may not realize that there's more to this than the main stream media would have one believe
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.

Sure, you're a white guy who doesn't automatically elicit suspicion and fear on the part of the cops and gets the benefit of the doubt.

But its easy to single out Freddie Gray (although one is forced to wonder if you ever smoked a joint in your youth in Ireland, or done anything that involved illegal trade of some kind).

What about Eric Garner who was selling single smokes? The black guy in Walmart who was murdered for looking at an airgun. Or any of the numerous other black people murdered by cops whose cases have come to light over the past year thanks to mobile phones? 

Didn't need drugs - I had other healthy pursuits. Football being the main one.
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

and Eric Garner wasn't earning a living selling single cigarettes. Do you actually believe that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 12, 2015, 03:58:04 AM
Ah, the old "do nothing wrong and you won't get in trouble" trope. Is this myth ever going to die?

Compare two different people exercising their open carry rights. One is white, one is black. How do you explain the different police responses, Fox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvW_zBvJlsA)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 12, 2015, 05:05:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.

Sure, you're a white guy who doesn't automatically elicit suspicion and fear on the part of the cops and gets the benefit of the doubt.

But its easy to single out Freddie Gray (although one is forced to wonder if you ever smoked a joint in your youth in Ireland, or done anything that involved illegal trade of some kind).

What about Eric Garner who was selling single smokes? The black guy in Walmart who was murdered for looking at an airgun. Or any of the numerous other black people murdered by cops whose cases have come to light over the past year thanks to mobile phones? 

Didn't need drugs - I had other healthy pursuits. Football being the main one.
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

and Eric Garner wasn't earning a living selling single cigarettes. Do you actually believe that?

He was selling single cigarettes on the day they killed him. It's why the wanted to arrest him that day.

And sorry, but if you grew up getting harassed by cops only because of your skin colour, such as under  "stop and frisk" programmes ,  you probably  would have a few choice words for them too. Would not mean you deserved summary execution.

And spare us the sanctimony. I'm fuckin certain  you've broken a few rules in your time, just like everyone  else, whether that is traffic laws or tax laws or doing something  stupid when drunk. Difference  is when you are black in America, you are far more likely  to pay a heavy price for your mistake.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2015, 05:05:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.

You'd have to suspect  the likes of Foxcommander aren't even Irish, such is their complete cluelessness when it comes to topics like this which strike so close to home.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 02:05:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2015, 05:05:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.

You'd have to suspect  the likes of Foxcommander aren't even Irish, such is their complete cluelessness when it comes to topics like this which strike so close to home.

Hahahahahaha...yep. You're right there Ted  ;)

Strikes so close to home indeed. Straight outta Compton eh lads?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 02:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2015, 05:05:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.

You'd have to suspect  the likes of Foxcommander aren't even Irish, such is their complete cluelessness when it comes to topics like this which strike so close to home.

and if I wasn't - does that mean that you're a xenophobe?

Then again I might be asian. That would make you a racist

CALL THE PC POLICE - plenty on here to pick from...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 01:58:05 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 12:29:05 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 09:51:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 07:16:54 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 06:13:28 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 11, 2015, 02:44:29 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2015, 12:36:49 PM
Stew can explain for himself here, but the only connection I can see to Obama is this meme that is so prevalent on the right that race relations have somehow deteriorated under Obama, which explains Black Lives Matter. The right, at least the Fox News/talk radio right, does not recognize or accept that blacks still suffer discrimination, and thus see any protests against police brutality or, lately, incidents such as the Missouri university one, as blacks trying to claim false victimhood. The ironic thing is that these are the same people who are now gearing up the annual "War on Christmas" bullshit (see the Starbucks cup "scandal" this week) and are forever lamenting the perceived sorry lot of the white christian in the US (See Huckabee, Cruz et al. in the Republican primaries). That all of this black protest has happened under Obama is not a coincidence to them, with his utterly innocuous statement about Trayvon Martin used as evidence that he is trying to incite racism. The idiots cannot see that the reaction against police brutality has occurred because, in the aftermath of Martin's homicide, the reality that black men do in fact suffer as a result of societal preconceptions and prejudices has been repeatedly thrust into the spotlight due to Youtube and the fact that everything is now captured on mobile phones. This was coming to a head regardless of whether Obama was president or not. Black people have decided they are going to highlight this shit when it happens and not go silently any more. And I say fair play! The only actual real connection I can see to Obama is that society has reached a point where a black president can be elected and perhaps the Black Lives Matter thing has benefited from the same societal evolution.

Michael brown, freddie gray (#drugdealerslivesmatter) and eric garner would all be alive if they had obeyed the law.
Puts that campaign into perspective of what it really is, an excuse to do whatever you want and pull out the race card to gain traction.

Let's hope you get no sympathy if a cop guns you down for bitching to him about being pulled over for speeding.

I mean, you would have deserved it because you were breaking the law. ::)

You wishing me dead J70?

Yes, that was my point... ::)

You didn't make it very well then.

Or perhaps its a case of utter stupidity or (hopefully for the sake of your intelligence, if not your honesty) willful ignorance on your part?

But let's take it one step at a time. First...

If a cop pulled you over for going a wee bit over the speed limit or having a broken rear light, do you think there would be no case to answer if he ended up shooting you or choking you to death because you gave him a bit of mouth?

Keep backpeddling. And you can apologise. Just like you do for all those lawbreakers.

No back pedalling here. I stand by all I've said.

Apologize for what?

And answer the question please.

No. I don't have to.

Of course you don't have to.

But its rather telling that you're afraid to answer such a simple question!

Not bringing myself to answer ridiculous questions. I don't deal drugs like Freddie Gray so no need to fear the cops.

Sure, you're a white guy who doesn't automatically elicit suspicion and fear on the part of the cops and gets the benefit of the doubt.

But its easy to single out Freddie Gray (although one is forced to wonder if you ever smoked a joint in your youth in Ireland, or done anything that involved illegal trade of some kind).

What about Eric Garner who was selling single smokes? The black guy in Walmart who was murdered for looking at an airgun. Or any of the numerous other black people murdered by cops whose cases have come to light over the past year thanks to mobile phones? 

Didn't need drugs - I had other healthy pursuits. Football being the main one.
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

and Eric Garner wasn't earning a living selling single cigarettes. Do you actually believe that?

He was selling single cigarettes on the day they killed him. It's why the wanted to arrest him that day.

And sorry, but if you grew up getting harassed by cops only because of your skin colour, such as under  "stop and frisk" programmes ,  you probably  would have a few choice words for them too. Would not mean you deserved summary execution.

And spare us the sanctimony. I'm fuckin certain  you've broken a few rules in your time, just like everyone  else, whether that is traffic laws or tax laws or doing something  stupid when drunk. Difference  is when you are black in America, you are far more likely  to pay a heavy price for your mistake.

J70. I assume you do know that the 4 officers facing the most serious charges in the Freddie Gray death are African Americans.  And that the  "supervising officer" in the Garner case was also an African American

I'm not saying that these 2 individuals weren't done wrong, I'm saying that it's lazy and uninformed to start yelling rascism every time someone dies at the hands of the police
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 02:12:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 12, 2015, 05:05:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 03:38:31 AM
You see, if you behave yourself and don't do anything illegal you don't get into trouble. Manners will also normally stop you getting into any trouble with cops.

You see, having grown up in the North, I personally know this not to be the case. As do many other posters here.

And I also know that this is not simply something that can be blamed on the police. However when you do not address discrimination in any shape of form, then it becomes dangerous to be from the wrong tribe, whatever tribe that is. Color is an easy one, accent can be another, the rise of religion- I think we've all been there, and we're all screwed because of it.
So what is it that we should do to fix it?
I think admitting there is a problem is a good start. To be poor and black in America is quite simply a disadvantage in may many are areas of life. Fox commander and whitey. I think you should at least consider that to be from a poor area and to be black does present a very different reaction from the police forces of the United States than if one is not...
For someone to protest about that treatment is a very natural reaction. For others to empathize and then do something about it in whatever fashion is probably (though not always) a good second step.

You'd have to suspect  the likes of Foxcommander aren't even Irish, such is their complete cluelessness when it comes to topics like this which strike so close to home.

and if I wasn't - does that mean that you're a xenophobe?

Then again I might be asian. That would make you a racist

CALL THE PC POLICE - plenty on here to pick from...

As with your deliberate missing of the point yesterday, another transparent  attempt at distraction.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really  are thick as a plank:

My point is that you appear to have zero understanding of what black people go through, despite the fact that our fellow Gaels in the north experienced similar abuse at the hands of the state and the Unionist population  for decades. And you go further back into the history  if the island as a whole for similar.

Hence my wondering if your background is indeed Irish (I guess I'd assumed everyone on this GAA website was).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:11:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

Its called internalized racism.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8

Ok, but I don't think anyone would argue that EVERY incident is evidence  of racist attitudes. And I'm sure that some get falsely  flagged. And I'm sure that some people try to use it to their advantage to try to get off the hook. And teenagers being what they are everywhere  I am positive  that some give attitude to cops and tell them they're filming them to try to pressure  them. But long standing problems clearly exist that need to be dealt with, for the sake of both sides. The thing with all these phone  films, allied to the increasing footage from body ad dash cameras,  is that a lot of these cases now have clear footage to help clear things up.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:00:14 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:52:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:03:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

In that case the singling out might  not be based on race per se, but it would still be based on appearance. If the same lad was from Foxrock or Ballsbridge and wearing expensive clothes and jangling the keys to Daddy's Range Rover, would the cop approach him with the same jaundiced view before he even engaged him? The profiling, prejudging and differential treatment and outcome is the issue, whether that is based on race, accent, dress or whatever.

Are you denying that there is any real issue here for black people?

Of course there are real issues for black people. The point I'm making is that not EVERY fractious interaction between the police and a black person is based on race.  Some are, some aren't.

By jumping on EVERY incident and claiming rascism, actually deflects attention from the real incidents


Case in point-BLM were out protesting on the streets after this guy was shot dead by police

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm6zWeEuAi8

Ok, but I don't think anyone would argue that EVERY incident is evidence  of racist attitudes. And I'm sure that some get falsely  flagged. And I'm sure that some people try to use it to their advantage to try to get off the hook. And teenagers being what they are everywhere  I am positive  that some give attitude to cops and tell them they're filming them to try to pressure  them. But long standing problems clearly exist that need to be dealt with, for the sake of both sides. The thing with all these phone  films, allied to the increasing footage from body ad dash cameras,  is that a lot of these cases now have clear footage to help clear things up.

Correct....a reasonable person wouldn't say that EVERY incident is motivated by race, but the actions of many in the BLM movement makes me believe they're not reasonable people

Can you imagine protesting the shooting of that murderous sc**bag, when the video clip I shared has been all over the evening news
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:12:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

He said "came down hard simply because  he was a traveller "
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
On the video Whitey (just watched it - f**k me! :o), did BLM really protest AFTER seeing it?

Because  that guy was clearly a serious  and present danger to the public and police who had to be stopped immediately.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:17:18 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:12:42 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

He said "came down hard simply because  he was a traveller "

Yeah I think that came from Gallsman's post. But I think what he meant was what I said.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
On the video Whitey (just watched it - f**k me! :o), did BLM really protest AFTER seeing it?

Because  that guy was clearly a serious  and present danger to the public and police who had to be stopped immediately.

Not only did they protest, but this interaction was recorded (with a black cop I might add)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0



(Oh.....I just read the comments on the video and it seems like it keeps getting deleted by people who do t want it to be seen)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!

What you're missing is the scenario where he cop in question is  a TRAVELLER himself.

Can a "TRAVELLER GARDA" be prejudiced against "CIVILIAN TRAVELLERS"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 05:34:07 PM
Splitting hairs here a bit - I know Travellers are campaigning to be officially recognised as an ethnic grouping but, if we take as a starting point, two white men, one a guard, who treats the other unfairly because he hears from the accent that he is a traveller. Is there any difference between a black cop looking at someone wearing a hoodie and his jeans slung low and treating him unfairly?

Picking the most unlikely example, saying it can't be proved and then extrapolating backwards from that, won't wash. There are countless examples throughout history of oppressive systems using members of a particular ethnic group to persecute that group. I'm not going to go into them because the conversation is guaranteed to take a swerve into some fairly unsavory alleys.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!

What you're missing is the scenario where he cop in question is  a TRAVELLER himself.

Can a "TRAVELLER GARDA" be prejudiced against "CIVILIAN TRAVELLERS"
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
On the video Whitey (just watched it - f**k me! :o), did BLM really protest AFTER seeing it?

Because  that guy was clearly a serious  and present danger to the public and police who had to be stopped immediately.

Not only did they protest, but this interaction was recorded (with a black cop I might add)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0



(Oh.....I just read the comments on the video and it seems like it keeps getting deleted by people who do t want it to be seen)

That looks like it was filmed in the aftermath. The cop was explaining  what happened.

Can't see much damning  with that. The protester got a bit stroppy about the cops putting their hands on them, but thats about it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!

What you're missing is the scenario where he cop in question is  a TRAVELLER himself.

Can a "TRAVELLER GARDA" be prejudiced against "CIVILIAN TRAVELLERS"

I didn't miss that. I already answered it. And the answer is yes.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!

What you're missing is the scenario where he cop in question is  a TRAVELLER himself.

Can a "TRAVELLER GARDA" be prejudiced against "CIVILIAN TRAVELLERS"
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
On the video Whitey (just watched it - f**k me! :o), did BLM really protest AFTER seeing it?

Because  that guy was clearly a serious  and present danger to the public and police who had to be stopped immediately.

Not only did they protest, but this interaction was recorded (with a black cop I might add)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0



(Oh.....I just read the comments on the video and it seems like it keeps getting deleted by people who do t want it to be seen)

That looks like it was filmed in the aftermath. The cop was explaining  what happened.

Can't see much damning  with that. The protester got a bit stroppy about the cops putting their hands on them, but thats about it.

Well BLM must feel it hurts their cause because they keep deleting it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:56:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:52:09 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:37:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:33:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:30:23 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on November 12, 2015, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:43:18 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 04:30:32 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 12, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 03:39:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 02:31:43 PM
Whitey, why does a cop have to be of a different race for it to be a signal of racial prejudice?

The issue is the institution and who the agent represents , not  just the individual. Society views black men with suspicion. That seeps into police policy and actions. A black cop can easily have preconceptions about likely guilt based purely on skin colour and thus conduct themselves  differently than if it were some white or Asian  person they were looking at.

So following that logic...a Garda (let's say from Kerry) stationed in Dublin.....who comes down hard on a tracksuit wearing resident of Ballymun or Finglas is rascist toward white people....interesting point of view.

Not to put words in J70's mouth but, em, no? You're not following the logic at all. Nor do I suspect you're attempting to.

It's EXACTLY the scenario he's painting.

Do you think you can be rascist to your own race?

J70 has made a perfectly reasonable point - and to elaborate on it - imagine a guard came down hard on a Traveller, simply because he was a Traveller - prejudice is prejudice whether it is based on race, appearance, class or demographic.

Remember the standard that we should be judged on - the content of our character only.

So if the Garda was a traveller, and he came down hard on a fellow traveller simply because he was a traveller, then following your logic, he would be prejudiced against travelers.

Yes.

What other conclusion could you possibly  draw if he came down hard only because  the guy was a traveller.

I think what whitey is saying is that if a Garda came down heavily on a traveller and was actually a traveller himself, then it would be fairly unlikely the reason he came down hard on him was due to him being a traveller. And could just be a case of the garda being a dick rather than racist motives.

Yes...that is exactly my point

If a cop is a dick to a guy simply because he is a traveller, that is clearly evidence that the cop has some kind of issue with travellers. If I'm missing  something, please fill me in!

What you're missing is the scenario where he cop in question is  a TRAVELLER himself.

Can a "TRAVELLER GARDA" be prejudiced against "CIVILIAN TRAVELLERS"
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 05:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 05:14:06 PM
On the video Whitey (just watched it - f**k me! :o), did BLM really protest AFTER seeing it?

Because  that guy was clearly a serious  and present danger to the public and police who had to be stopped immediately.

Not only did they protest, but this interaction was recorded (with a black cop I might add)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0



(Oh.....I just read the comments on the video and it seems like it keeps getting deleted by people who do t want it to be seen)

That looks like it was filmed in the aftermath. The cop was explaining  what happened.

Can't see much damning  with that. The protester got a bit stroppy about the cops putting their hands on them, but thats about it.

Well BLM must feel it hurts their cause because they keep deleting it

Maybe they do, but I don't see much wrong with it. Tensions run high in those situations . The cop did a great job keeping it all reasonably calm.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I already said that it was all over the 6 o clock news (hours before this protest took place)

I wonder will the family of the dead sc**bag get invited to the white house, it seems to be the fad in this administration. :-[
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:43:46 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I stand corrected....they did not immediately release it....they immediately showed it to Civil and Religous leaders in the African American community who then issued statements detailing whad had happened....thats who I saw on the news that same evening.

"While Scott and other religious and community leaders viewed the video not long after the shooting, officials held off releasing it to the public until West could be buried, and the Moynihan and West families could view the video. But, Conley said, a meeting with West's family could not be scheduled, and officials felt they had to act." Boston Globe
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I already said that it was all over the 6 o clock news (hours before this protest took place)

I wonder will the family of the dead sc**bag get invited to the white house, it seems to be the fad in this administration. :-[

Is Oprah still on the air? Would be a guaranteed appearance (fee)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I already said that it was all over the 6 o clock news (hours before this protest took place)

I wonder will the family of the dead sc**bag get invited to the white house, it seems to be the fad in this administration. :-[

Is Oprah still on the air? Would be a guaranteed appearance.

On the air? She own's the Oprah Winfrey network ffs.  :D

In related news..............

Jonathan Butler — the University of Missouri grad student who became the public face of the #ConcernedStudent1950 protests that forced the resignation of both the school's president and chancellor — claimed several times that he was hit by a car carrying the president in early October during the school's homecoming parade.

However, a look at video of the incident itself shows that Jonathan Butler actually rushes towards the car.



The claim of being hit by the car, a red covetable carrying President Wolfe, was significant in the protests so much so that Butler demanded an apology in the very first list of demands made by the students. The first demand reads in full (emphasis added):

We demand that the University of Missouri System President, Tim Wolfe, writes a handwritten apology to the Concerned Student 1-­9-­5-0 demonstrators and holds a press conference in the Mizzou Student Center reading the letter. In the letter and at the press conference, Tim Wolfe must acknowledge his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Student 1-9-5-­0 demands. We want Tim Wolfe to admit to his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators.

Butler also tweeted about the incident several times.

This bastard should be sued for slander!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:58:01 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I already said that it was all over the 6 o clock news (hours before this protest took place)

I wonder will the family of the dead sc**bag get invited to the white house, it seems to be the fad in this administration. :-[

FFS Stew.

Is there any point in asking you to support that statement?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:59:53 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:50:37 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 06:49:04 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 06:41:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Yes, but they're on the street  protesting the shooting of a career criminal who shot a police officer in the face at point blank range and then continued firing at the other officers. Do you think that helps their cause?

Depends on timeline. If they're protesting  before they knew the details, it could be understood. If they're still out after that video is made public, then if course that is damaging to their cause.

I don't know  how well coordinated and run the movement  is in terms of setting up protests and controlling where and when they occur.

I already said that it was all over the 6 o clock news (hours before this protest took place)

I wonder will the family of the dead sc**bag get invited to the white house, it seems to be the fad in this administration. :-[

Is Oprah still on the air? Would be a guaranteed appearance.

On the air? She own's the Oprah Winfrey network ffs.  :D

In related news..............

Jonathan Butler — the University of Missouri grad student who became the public face of the #ConcernedStudent1950 protests that forced the resignation of both the school's president and chancellor — claimed several times that he was hit by a car carrying the president in early October during the school's homecoming parade.

However, a look at video of the incident itself shows that Jonathan Butler actually rushes towards the car.



The claim of being hit by the car, a red covetable carrying President Wolfe, was significant in the protests so much so that Butler demanded an apology in the very first list of demands made by the students. The first demand reads in full (emphasis added):

We demand that the University of Missouri System President, Tim Wolfe, writes a handwritten apology to the Concerned Student 1-­9-­5-0 demonstrators and holds a press conference in the Mizzou Student Center reading the letter. In the letter and at the press conference, Tim Wolfe must acknowledge his white male privilege, recognize that systems of oppression exist, and provide a verbal commitment to fulfilling Concerned Student 1-9-5-­0 demands. We want Tim Wolfe to admit to his gross negligence, allowing his driver to hit one of the demonstrators, consenting to the physical violence of bystanders, and lastly refusing to intervene when Columbia Police Department used excessive force with demonstrators.

Butler also tweeted about the incident several times.

This b**tard should be sued for slander!

Well, if the video shows it was his own fault, then I'm sure the lawyers will easily go after him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
LOL.....just watched the video.....driver tried to turn the car around at a minimal rate of speed and yer man walks right up and bangs into the bumper to prevent him from doing so...at which point the driver stops.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 12, 2015, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
LOL.....just watched the video.....driver tried to turn the car around at a minimal rate of speed and yer man walks right up and bangs into the bumper to prevent him from doing so...at which point the driver stops.

Some of these people simply want to be famous, he should be arrested for that shit and sued, some one the the left are driving this anti police agenda to the max the bastards!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?

So a hoodie and hanging trousers, the uniform of just about every black kid in America, is the equivalent of a balaclava/combat boots worn by a paramilitary in Belfast?

Got it.  ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
LOL.....just watched the video.....driver tried to turn the car around at a minimal rate of speed and yer man walks right up and bangs into the bumper to prevent him from doing so...at which point the driver stops.

Some of these people simply want to be famous, he should be arrested for that shit and sued, some one the the left are driving this anti police agenda to the max the b**tards!

I thought this dude was mixed up in the Missouri university thing, NOT a police issue?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?

So a hoodie and hanging trousers, the uniform of just about every black kid in America, is the equivalent of a balaclava/combat boots worn by a paramilitary in Belfast?

Got it.  ::)


Given that studies show you are far less likely to be arrested as a white person for possession of drugs in the States than a black person, one would have to assume that whilst you may not be racist in and of yourself, you are certainly applying a racial profiling policy.

Lads, trying to use police statistics is a dead end for you - stop and frisk, the disproportionate rate of prosecution of drug offences in minority communities, sentencing discrepancies and the race skewed prison population all undermine your arguments.

If one part of the community is policed far more vigorously than the other, then of course there will be more arrests, leading to people like Foxcommander saying that that part of the "population" has no "rules or respect" or their demonisation as "scumbags" by people like Stew. Easy answers for ignorant questions, and far more dangerous than some lad reading "Anarchy for Dummies" and attacking the fender of a car.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 08:03:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
LOL.....just watched the video.....driver tried to turn the car around at a minimal rate of speed and yer man walks right up and bangs into the bumper to prevent him from doing so...at which point the driver stops.

Some of these people simply want to be famous, he should be arrested for that shit and sued, some one the the left are driving this anti police agenda to the max the b**tards!

I thought this dude was mixed up in the Missouri university thing, NOT a police issue?

If he reported it to the police he could be done for filing a false report are wasting police time. Otherwise slander would be a civil matter
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?

So a hoodie and hanging trousers, the uniform of just about every black kid in America, is the equivalent of a balaclava/combat boots worn by a paramilitary in Belfast?

Got it.  ::)


Given that studies show you are far less likely to be arrested as a white person for possession of drugs in the States than a black person, one would have to assume that whilst you may not be racist in and of yourself, you are certainly applying a racial profiling policy.

Lads, trying to use police statistics is a dead end for you - stop and frisk, the disproportionate rate of prosecution of drug offences in minority communities, sentencing discrepancies and the race skewed prison population all undermine your arguments.

If one part of the community is policed far more vigorously than the other, then of course there will be more arrests, leading to people like Foxcommander saying that that part of the "population" has no "rules or respect" or their demonisation as "scumbags" by people like Stew. Easy answers for ignorant questions, and far more dangerous than some lad reading "Anarchy for Dummies" and attacking the fender of a car.

I defer to whiteys video to show respect for an officer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0

That's respect eh? The use of the N word would get another section of the community into a lot of trouble.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 08:03:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:43:39 PM
Quote from: stew on November 12, 2015, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
LOL.....just watched the video.....driver tried to turn the car around at a minimal rate of speed and yer man walks right up and bangs into the bumper to prevent him from doing so...at which point the driver stops.

Some of these people simply want to be famous, he should be arrested for that shit and sued, some one the the left are driving this anti police agenda to the max the b**tards!

I thought this dude was mixed up in the Missouri university thing, NOT a police issue?

If he reported it to the police he could be done for filing a false report are wasting police time. Otherwise slander would be a civil matter

True.

If he is from a very rich family as Stew suggested, a civil suit would be a certainty.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?

So a hoodie and hanging trousers, the uniform of just about every black kid in America, is the equivalent of a balaclava/combat boots worn by a paramilitary in Belfast?

Got it.  ::)


Given that studies show you are far less likely to be arrested as a white person for possession of drugs in the States than a black person, one would have to assume that whilst you may not be racist in and of yourself, you are certainly applying a racial profiling policy.

Lads, trying to use police statistics is a dead end for you - stop and frisk, the disproportionate rate of prosecution of drug offences in minority communities, sentencing discrepancies and the race skewed prison population all undermine your arguments.

If one part of the community is policed far more vigorously than the other, then of course there will be more arrests, leading to people like Foxcommander saying that that part of the "population" has no "rules or respect" or their demonisation as "scumbags" by people like Stew. Easy answers for ignorant questions, and far more dangerous than some lad reading "Anarchy for Dummies" and attacking the fender of a car.

I defer to whiteys video to show respect for an officer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0

That's respect eh? The use of the N word would get another section of the community into a lot of trouble.

WTF are you talking about?

Overall, that's a pretty civil discussion. Gets a little bit heated at the end, but it's an emotionally charged event.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 08:35:06 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:41:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: Gmac on November 12, 2015, 06:19:25 PM
Suppose I was a cop on the south side of Chicago for 20  years and over that time 80% of people I arrested for drug possession or intent to distribute were black with hoodies and pants hanging around their arses would I be a racist for watching out for said persons to pull over or traffic stop or would I be a good cop ,?

Are you basing your decision to pull them over purely on their race/dress, or do you have some cause to believe that the individuals in question are carrying drugs?

If I choose to walk around Belfast with a full balaclava and combats would you think I'm inviting trouble or not?

So a hoodie and hanging trousers, the uniform of just about every black kid in America, is the equivalent of a balaclava/combat boots worn by a paramilitary in Belfast?

Got it.  ::)


Given that studies show you are far less likely to be arrested as a white person for possession of drugs in the States than a black person, one would have to assume that whilst you may not be racist in and of yourself, you are certainly applying a racial profiling policy.

Lads, trying to use police statistics is a dead end for you - stop and frisk, the disproportionate rate of prosecution of drug offences in minority communities, sentencing discrepancies and the race skewed prison population all undermine your arguments.

If one part of the community is policed far more vigorously than the other, then of course there will be more arrests, leading to people like Foxcommander saying that that part of the "population" has no "rules or respect" or their demonisation as "scumbags" by people like Stew. Easy answers for ignorant questions, and far more dangerous than some lad reading "Anarchy for Dummies" and attacking the fender of a car.

I defer to whiteys video to show respect for an officer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ULf-n8l2rY0

That's respect eh? The use of the N word would get another section of the community into a lot of trouble.

Big difference between having no respect for yourself or having no respect for a system that does not value you. But of course Fox, you're white, so you'll never have to experience that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 12, 2015, 09:11:37 PM
I was actually going to ask him that but then i thought "life is too short."

There you go - Middle Aged Irish Lives matter as well.

I'll get me coat....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...

"A huge example" of inequality?

Seriously?

You really don't understand  the difference?

You don't understand people reclaiming a word that was historically  a symbol of their enslavement and second-class citizenship?

You don't understand  how their use of it is completely  different to white use of it?

You don't get the equivalent difference between gay people using the word "queer" and it's traditional  use as a term of abuse?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...

You don't understand  how their use of it is completely  different to white use of it?

I don't. If it's in the dictionary I should be allowed use it exactly the same way as anyone else.

or is it ok to use discrimination? How do you know my background - or are you basing it on the colour of my skin?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:57:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...

You don't understand  how their use of it is completely  different to white use of it?

I don't. If it's in the dictionary I should be allowed use it exactly the same way as anyone else.

or is it ok to use discrimination? How do you know my background - or are you basing it on the colour of my skin?

White use of the word carries the baggage of a history of slavery and white repression of blacks. Black use of it does not. Their use of it is basically  a "f**k you" to that history. I seriously  doubt if you can't see that and thus can only put this down to yet more intellectual  dishonesty  on your part.

I don't know your background  or skin colour. Chances are very strong you're a white Irish male, like almost all of us here.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:52:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:57:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...

You don't understand  how their use of it is completely  different to white use of it?

I don't. If it's in the dictionary I should be allowed use it exactly the same way as anyone else.

or is it ok to use discrimination? How do you know my background - or are you basing it on the colour of my skin?

White use of the word carries the baggage of a history of slavery and white repression of blacks. Black use of it does not. Their use of it is basically  a "f**k you" to that history. I seriously  doubt if you can't see that and thus can only put this down to yet more intellectual  dishonesty  on your part.

I don't know your background  or skin colour. Chances are very strong you're a white Irish male, like almost all of us here.

Nobody owns a word or should dictate what language anyone else chooses to use. It's only the thought police again monitoring this. People like yourself who seem to allow this fake victimhood to continue. Isn't there still calls for reparations in the USA? Don't tell me that's chancing your arm....this is a continuation of this policy to gain leverage ...don't kid yourself its not.

Hulk Hogan, Paula Deen - careers ruined for using a particular word once
Dr Dre uses the same word multiple times in his music and wins Grammys.

If you PC bunch want equality you're not doing a good job. If anything you are tripping over yourselves to apologise.

Look at south Africa's hiring policies if you want to see good examples of how that goes...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 13, 2015, 05:47:24 AM
Fenian, Taig, Hun, Black, Brit

Take your pick

"If its in the dictionary i should be allowed to use it"

Try it, i have a list of bars in Belfast, you should start there. The felons, the hatfield, Sandy Row RSC.

Bring your "rights to use words" dictionary with you, should be pretty straightforward to explain.  No bother.

"Nobody owns a word"

You should open with that....



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are

It sure does. Anyone who supports the first amendment is supporting the right of these 'cvnts' to have easy access to guns.

BTW the cop stopped him 'During a traffic stop' so do't overplay the 'protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon' bullshit. There is no need for it.

That said, the cop was just doing his job didn't deserve what happened to him. Hopefully he recovers.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 09:23:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHsv4Rpmflc

Fox's experiment with language
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are

It sure does. Anyone who supports the first amendment is supporting the right of these 'cvnts' to have easy access to guns.

BTW the cop stopped him 'During a traffic stop' so do't overplay the 'protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon' bullshit. There is no need for it.

That said, the cop was just doing his job didn't deserve what happened to him. Hopefully he recovers.

That is a disgraceful comment....it was not a random "traffic stop" as you so smugly describe it....they were responding to a shooting in a minority neighborhood at the time.  6 members of a gang unit do not pull you over in a "traffic stop".  They absolsolutely were putting their lives on the line stopping known gang members immediately after a shooting

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/30/wounded-boston-police-officer-john-moynihan-says-road-recovery/MJZIPMEIuWXdueGFrG0VHL/story.html



"A clergymen and anti-violence leader, the Rev. Mark Scott of the Azusa Christian Community, said he is praying for Moynihan and his family, and for a neighborhood that has been plagued by violence.

"There is much work that people have done with the police that has made our community a lot safer," he said."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 02:49:26 PM
Did Pryor repudiate it Stew? I never heard that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 03:15:46 PM
Wow, you really want to drop the N-bomb, don't you? You're getting all excited about it.

(Probably whilst gazing at a laminated pic of Paula Deen...)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 03:15:46 PM
Wow, you really want to drop the N-bomb, don't you? You're getting all excited about it.

(Probably whilst gazing at a laminated pic of Paula Deen...)

The laminate is wearing off at this stage ;)

Now excuse me while I go listen to NWA on my walkman.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 04:06:50 PM
Here's a suggestion - instead of listening to NWA, or us bleating heart liberals, why don't you follow your own advice to Eamonnca1. You're clearly a man who knows the mean streets. Why don't you go for a walk through Oakland whilst exposing the double standards of black people being able to use the N word whilst you can't?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 04:12:06 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 04:06:50 PM
Here's a suggestion - instead of listening to NWA, or us bleating heart liberals, why don't you follow your own advice to Eamonnca1. You're clearly a man who knows the mean streets. Why don't you go for a walk through Oakland whilst exposing the double standards of black people being able to use the N word whilst you can't?

Stop trying to get Eamonnca1 off the hook. I've been saying the streets aren't safe, he thinks it's like sesame street in his big multi-cultural wonderland.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 04:45:22 PM
I'm not saying the streets aren't safe - I'm saying that there is a thing called context, which means, whilst he would be safe sauntering along with his latte, you'd have a bigger problem, using the N word. You'd have your arse handed to you, and you'd deserve it, whether black people use it themselves or not.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 05:00:48 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 04:45:22 PM
I'm not saying the streets aren't safe - I'm saying that there is a thing called context, which means, whilst he would be safe sauntering along with his latte, you'd have a bigger problem, using the N word. You'd have your arse handed to you, and you'd deserve it, whether black people use it themselves or not.

Such an event wouldnt happen as I know better than to venture into such neighbourhoods, unlike the bold Eamonn.
While you think these no-go areas are restricted to the likes of Oakland you'll see them closer to home in the near future. I wonder will you feel as smug then.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 05:15:12 PM
Not smug at all Fox - if you wandered down Blanchardstown main street tonight calling everyone you met "skangers" the same thing would happen. You see, being an ignorant bollix tends to translate across all cultures in our multicultural fantasy land. And if you know better than to walk down those streets (which means you don't go down them, thus perhaps, limiting your knowledge of them? Hmm, logic anyone?) than hopefully you'll know better than try to proscribe what words those people feel offended by.

Spoofer.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 13, 2015, 05:59:56 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 02:49:26 PM
Did Pryor repudiate it Stew? I never heard that.

He did, I saw him being interviewed and he brought the subject up, he said he had changed because of a conversation he had with some guy in Africa that shook him to the core.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2015, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 04:45:22 PM
I'm not saying the streets aren't safe - I'm saying that there is a thing called context, which means, whilst he would be safe sauntering along with his latte, you'd have a bigger problem, using the N word. You'd have your arse handed to you, and you'd deserve it, whether black people use it themselves or not.

Easytiger....I hope you realize that theres neighborhoods in some of the big US cities, such as Chicago where white people wouldnt DRIVE through, never mind WALK through....day or night.

Some of these places you could get shot or stabbed for no reason other than just being there.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 06:21:27 PM
Well as a white person whitey, i lived in a fairly rundown area in Worcester Mass for a little under a year - there was an actual crack house two doors up, myself and my two mates plus another family in an apartment down the block were the only white faces in that community, and we came and went into our apartment for months with no hassle from the surrounding people, and  we got to be on speaking terms with a lot of our neigbours - just nods, "hellos" and "how's it goings". Now, bear in mind, we were all 20/21, working really hard and drinking like fish - some nights we stumbled home from Millbury Street and the dive bars and I've no idea how we made it, and to the locals, we were just the crazy Irish guys. I can honestly say that i never felt one instance of fear or apprehension whilst living there.

Now Worcester may not be New York, but it is the second biggest city in New England after Boston, at the time (96/97) it was still mired in recession, and even at the best of times Worcester was a kip - and we lived in the worst part of it (don't even ask why we were there).

And for the final irony, the only scrap I ever got into over there was with a bunch of college football players from Holycross, who were an absolute bunch of dicks (and were all white, and claimed to be Irish American!)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 06:21:27 PM
some nights we stumbled home from Millbury Street and the dive bars and I've no idea how we made it, and to the locals, we were just the crazy Irish guys. I can honestly say that i never felt one instance of fear or apprehension whilst living there.

Stupidity knows no fear. Thats youth for you.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 06:33:25 PM
I'll have to defer to you that subject Fox - you must be an expert as you seem to live your life in fear
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 13, 2015, 11:43:02 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 13, 2015, 06:21:27 PM
Well as a white person whitey, i lived in a fairly rundown area in Worcester Mass for a little under a year - there was an actual crack house two doors up, myself and my two mates plus another family in an apartment down the block were the only white faces in that community, and we came and went into our apartment for months with no hassle from the surrounding people, and  we got to be on speaking terms with a lot of our neigbours - just nods, "hellos" and "how's it goings". Now, bear in mind, we were all 20/21, working really hard and drinking like fish - some nights we stumbled home from Millbury Street and the dive bars and I've no idea how we made it, and to the locals, we were just the crazy Irish guys. I can honestly say that i never felt one instance of fear or apprehension whilst living there.

Now Worcester may not be New York, but it is the second biggest city in New England after Boston, at the time (96/97) it was still mired in recession, and even at the best of times Worcester was a kip - and we lived in the worst part of it (don't even ask why we were there).

And for the final irony, the only scrap I ever got into over there was with a bunch of college football players from Holycross, who were an absolute bunch of dicks (and were all white, and claimed to be Irish American!)

I'm laughing about your Holy Cross story because I know a couple of guys who played football there. Like the conversation we had about the Yale frat members earlier this week....these guys are fvckin assholes to everyone

I know Worcester very well and am up there at least twice a month and my wife grew up a couple of towns over. I typically hang with the lace curtain Irish up in O Connors on W Boylston St.

You are correct.......Worcester is a $hithole.....but a "no go area" it is not!!!!

Just to give you some perspective:  Worcester has a violent crime rate of 9.88 per 1000 residents

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/bbj_research_alert/2012/12/is-provincetown-really-the-murder.html

The worst neighborhood in the country is in Baltimore.....it has a violent crime rate of 93.79

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/25-most-dangerous-neighborhoods/

The places on that top 25 list are the places you wouldn't go day or night by foot or in a car. You'd be very lucky to make it out unscathed






Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 14, 2015, 12:20:26 AM
It was a different time when i was there Whitey - you're talking mid 90s and it was a terrible hole. So I wouldn't mind those stats. I took a little walk down memory lane there and did a bit of reseach and downtown has certainly become more gentrified in the last 10 years - they are really playing up the 30,000 students- although I went on street view there and Clapp Street (if you can believe the name, where we had our apartment) is still an awful kip.

Certainly, when I was there we were warned about staying out of Piedmont Street and the environs - but I was working with a painting crew that got a lot of municipal contracts which meant we were painting community centres, drug treatment clinics, secure hospitals, DUI clinics etc all around these areas, and again, we never got any hassle from anyone there, it was always the college kids slumming it in Stony O'Briens who were the assholes.

You know you don't have to be in a big city to be in a no go area - I remember a mate who lived in Salem telling me that Newton was an absolute war zone at the time.

I laughed when you mentioned O'Connor's - that was were you took a date to impress them (if you were lucky enough to get one). Otherwise we were hanging out under the big luminous Leprechaun's hat in the Emerald Isle. Good Jaysis, we had some good times, despite the location.

We actually painted St. Pauls Cathedral down on Chatham Street, just round the corner from Worcester Common. All our names are still up there in the eaves, along with a gold leaf shamrock our boss insisted on leaving up there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 12:44:08 AM
Don't believe me if you dont want to, but Worcester was never in the same league as places such as Baltimore or Chicago when it came to crime

And Newton is one of the wealthiest towns in  Masaachusetts. Whoever was telling you that must have been off their medication at the time.   Maybe you've got switched it around in your head and a guy from Newton told you that Salem is dangerous.

2 of my clients sons worked as busboys up in O Connors....I heard some great stories about working there.

..Brendan is a real character.  He was coaching St Johns soccer team one year and a player got sent off for using bad language.  At half time Brendan flipped the lid and supposedly was roaring "that there better be no fvckin bad language used on anyone on his team". Seemingly it was secretly recorded too.

There's another bar, north of downtown and whether you pass at 9 am or 9 pm there a bunch of dodgy looking characters outside smoking. Maybe that's one of the spots you used to go into
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: easytiger95 on November 14, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
I'm not saying I don't believe you - I'm telling you (as I did above) that I know Worcester was not New York. But it is the biggest city in New England bar Boston, at the time it was suffering from a desperate recession and drug problem (Piedmont Street had HIV epidemic signs posted on the lamposts, there were shooting gallerys and crack houses all through downtown) and i and my mates ended up living in the middle of it. As you know Whitey, it is a long way from Millbury Street to West Boylston.

As for Newton, I may have got the wrong town there. It was some place you passed through on the greyhound on the way to Salem (which wasn't too bad, he was living in the touristy part)

Oh yeah, if there was dodgy characters outside, we were there. And three more innocent young fellas you never met in your life. Worcester opened our eyes, let me tell you.

I always promised myself I'd do a drive through New England and go through Worcester again. I might be doing it next summer. Hopefully we can meet in O'Connors over a few pints (no politics or religion though Whitey!)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 01:10:50 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on November 14, 2015, 12:54:27 AM
I'm not saying I don't believe you - I'm telling you (as I did above) that I know Worcester was not New York. But it is the biggest city in New England bar Boston, at the time it was suffering from a desperate recession and drug problem (Piedmont Street had HIV epidemic signs posted on the lamposts, there were shooting gallerys and crack houses all through downtown) and i and my mates ended up living in the middle of it. As you know Whitey, it is a long way from Millbury Street to West Boylston.

As for Newton, I may have got the wrong town there. It was some place you passed through on the greyhound on the way to Salem (which wasn't too bad, he was living in the touristy part)

Oh yeah, if there was dodgy characters outside, we were there. And three more innocent young fellas you never met in your life. Worcester opened our eyes, let me tell you.

I always promised myself I'd do a drive through New England and go through Worcester again. I might be doing it next summer. Hopefully we can meet in O'Connors over a few pints (no politics or religion though Whitey!)

Your buddy was talking about Chelsea.  Its just North of Boston. It always was and always be a dump.  Theres was a strip club up there and I lost count on how many people got knifed or shot in there. And it had a motel attached to it too...so you can draw your own conclusions as to what used to go on in there.  Happy to say I only went there once

Let me know if your coming out...I have tons of friends who have very different opinions to me, but were all well read and travelled so we respect each others opinions.  You dont learn anything hanging out with people who agree with everything you believe in
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are

It sure does. Anyone who supports the first amendment is supporting the right of these 'cvnts' to have easy access to guns.

BTW the cop stopped him 'During a traffic stop' so do't overplay the 'protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon' bullshit. There is no need for it.

That said, the cop was just doing his job didn't deserve what happened to him. Hopefully he recovers.

That is a disgraceful comment....it was not a random "traffic stop" as you so smugly describe it....they were responding to a shooting in a minority neighborhood at the time.  6 members of a gang unit do not pull you over in a "traffic stop".  They absolsolutely were putting their lives on the line stopping known gang members immediately after a shooting

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/30/wounded-boston-police-officer-john-moynihan-says-road-recovery/MJZIPMEIuWXdueGFrG0VHL/story.html



"A clergymen and anti-violence leader, the Rev. Mark Scott of the Azusa Christian Community, said he is praying for Moynihan and his family, and for a neighborhood that has been plagued by violence.

"There is much work that people have done with the police that has made our community a lot safer," he said."

YOU provided the link and YOUR link said: "During a traffic stop". I was quoting from YOUR link! You might have at least read it.

Now apologise for your spectacular stupidity good lad.  :D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are

It sure does. Anyone who supports the first amendment is supporting the right of these 'cvnts' to have easy access to guns.

BTW the cop stopped him 'During a traffic stop' so do't overplay the 'protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon' bullshit. There is no need for it.

That said, the cop was just doing his job didn't deserve what happened to him. Hopefully he recovers.

That is a disgraceful comment....it was not a random "traffic stop" as you so smugly describe it....they were responding to a shooting in a minority neighborhood at the time.  6 members of a gang unit do not pull you over in a "traffic stop".  They absolsolutely were putting their lives on the line stopping known gang members immediately after a shooting

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/30/wounded-boston-police-officer-john-moynihan-says-road-recovery/MJZIPMEIuWXdueGFrG0VHL/story.html



"A clergymen and anti-violence leader, the Rev. Mark Scott of the Azusa Christian Community, said he is praying for Moynihan and his family, and for a neighborhood that has been plagued by violence.

"There is much work that people have done with the police that has made our community a lot safer," he said."

YOU provided the link and YOUR link said: "During a traffic stop". I was quoting from YOUR link! You might have at least read it.

Now apologise for your spectacular stupidity good lad.  :D

Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL

RE READ THE QUOTE FROM THE MINISTER

See you're just reinforcing what I've been saying all along....skimming the headlines from 3000 miles away and getting on your high horse without knowing the details.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:28:39 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:22:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 02:40:26 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 13, 2015, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 13, 2015, 08:27:42 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 12, 2015, 11:05:26 PM
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392


Heres a video from earlier in the night.....the one at the bottom of the page


Cop got shot in the face protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon and this is how they react.  Absolute fvckin disgrace

BTW this WAS on youtube but got pulled because once agin it shows what a shower of complete cvnts some of these people are

It sure does. Anyone who supports the first amendment is supporting the right of these 'cvnts' to have easy access to guns.

BTW the cop stopped him 'During a traffic stop' so do't overplay the 'protecting THEIR neighborhood from a dangerous and violent felon' bullshit. There is no need for it.

That said, the cop was just doing his job didn't deserve what happened to him. Hopefully he recovers.

That is a disgraceful comment....it was not a random "traffic stop" as you so smugly describe it....they were responding to a shooting in a minority neighborhood at the time.  6 members of a gang unit do not pull you over in a "traffic stop".  They absolsolutely were putting their lives on the line stopping known gang members immediately after a shooting

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/30/wounded-boston-police-officer-john-moynihan-says-road-recovery/MJZIPMEIuWXdueGFrG0VHL/story.html



"A clergymen and anti-violence leader, the Rev. Mark Scott of the Azusa Christian Community, said he is praying for Moynihan and his family, and for a neighborhood that has been plagued by violence.

"There is much work that people have done with the police that has made our community a lot safer," he said."

YOU provided the link and YOUR link said: "During a traffic stop". I was quoting from YOUR link! You might have at least read it.

Now apologise for your spectacular stupidity good lad.  :D

Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL

RE READ THE QUOTE FROM THE MINISTER

See you're just reinforcing what I've been saying all along....skimming the headlines from 3000 miles away and getting on your high horse without knowing the details.

You are making a fool of yourself now.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Here is the link YOU posted and to which I responded: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db1_1427671392)

Here is the entire article with the bit I quoted, verbatim, in bold:

Once again, we are reminded how tragically ineffective gun laws are in preventing criminals from obtaining and using them in purely evil acts. In this particular situation, we are also shown how very little actual facts matter to certain people who deliberately refuse to acknowledge any aspect of an incident other than race.

A highly decorated Boston Police Officer and former Army Ranger was shot in the face Friday night, by a perpetrator who the "law" states should not have been in possession of a firearm. During a traffic stop, Officer John Moynihan was approaching the vehicle when the driver got out of his car, pulled a gun, and shot the officer point-blank in the face. The suspect, 41-year-old Angelo West, then started running as he fired several more shots at other officers on the scene.According to CNN, Police Commissioner William Evans stated that West emptied the .357 Magnum he was carrying in the shoot-out, during which time he was effectively neutralized after he was struck with rounds fired by the other officers and killed on the scene.
Evans stated that West had several previous gun related convictions. The two other passengers in the vehicle were arrested on unrelated charges involving a warrant and a probation violation.

One unidentified woman who was in the vicinity was struck in the arm by a stray bullet and suffered a flesh wound but is expected to be alright.

Officer Moynihan was not so lucky. Although he is still alive at the time of this article, he is in a medically induced coma and listed in critical condition at Boston Medical Center. The bullet that struck him in the face, entered his skull just under his right eye and became lodged near the back of his head behind his right ear.

Infuriating footage of an impromptu protest following the incident has been uploaded to YouTube. Dozens of people gathered together in order to verbally harass police officers for the slaying of the cop-shooter, Angelo West.

At several points in the video there can be heard abrasive comments, insults, and accusations being hurled at the officers who were trying to maintain a perimeter. One woman in particular is heard repeatedly saying, "Everyone put your hands up," in an obvious attempt to stir up the crowd by referencing the Michael Brown incident, in which another black man was also justifiably shot and killed for attacking a police officer.

Although it was dark and the visual clarity leaves something to be desired, the audio is clear and documents the animalistic intent of the crowd in their attempt to incite a physical confrontation with police officers.

What the hell is wrong with these people? A person, whose job is to protect and serve the citizens of the city, is shot in the face by a disgustingly violent thug — his life is now hanging in the balance — and all they care about is that a black man was shot and killed by cops.

Instead of showing up to harass officers, these asshats should have been standing there in quiet reverence, praying for the officer while holding candles and leaving flowers to show their gratitude and respect for the man who was brutally attacked while trying to make their neighborhood a little safer. They should be thanking the cops that took out a vicious and dangerous perpetrator, because in doing so, they likely saved any number of innocent people in their area from eventually becoming victims at his hands.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Blah blah blah...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Blah blah blah...


B-b-b-b-but didn't you accuse me this: "Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL?"  ;D ;D

Surely you are not a hypocrite as well as unable to read your own posts and links?  ;D ;D ;D

Now man up and admit that in your haste to stick the boot into me, you f*cked it up royally.  :D

And then I'll move on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Blah blah blah...


B-b-b-b-but didn't you accuse me this: "Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL?"  ;D ;D

Surely you are not a hypocrite as well as unable to read your own posts and links?  ;D ;D ;D

Now man up and admit that in your haste to stick the boot into me, you f*cked it up royally.  :D

And then I'll move on.

Blah ball blah
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:51:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Blah blah blah...


B-b-b-b-but didn't you accuse me this: "Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL?"  ;D ;D

Surely you are not a hypocrite as well as unable to read your own posts and links?  ;D ;D ;D

Now man up and admit that in your haste to stick the boot into me, you f*cked it up royally.  :D

And then I'll move on.



Blah ball blah


It isn't quite Cicero, but it is distinctly less embarrassing than your recent efforts.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 14, 2015, 06:01:09 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:51:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 14, 2015, 05:33:00 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 14, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Oh and I'll take that apology.  ;)

Blah blah blah...


B-b-b-b-but didn't you accuse me this: "Never can admit your wrong Muppett can you-LOL?"  ;D ;D

Surely you are not a hypocrite as well as unable to read your own posts and links?  ;D ;D ;D

Now man up and admit that in your haste to stick the boot into me, you f*cked it up royally.  :D

And then I'll move on.



Blah ball blah


t isn't quite Cicero, but it is distinctly less embarrassing than your recent efforts.  ;D ;D ;D

Blah blah blah
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 15, 2015, 07:43:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 04:12:06 PM
Stop trying to get Eamonnca1 off the hook. I've been saying the streets aren't safe, he thinks it's like sesame street in his big multi-cultural wonderland.

What are you waffling about now? Where did I say there's no such thing as unsafe streets?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-pc-college-protesters-who-raised-these-little-monsters/


Even a well known progressive, Bill Maher, getting tired of the campus clowns at Yale
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2015, 01:08:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-pc-college-protesters-who-raised-these-little-monsters/


Even a well known progressive, Bill Maher, getting tired of the campus clowns at Yale

Could you not just watch CBeebies instead?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 16, 2015, 01:19:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 01:08:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-pc-college-protesters-who-raised-these-little-monsters/


Even a well known progressive, Bill Maher, getting tired of the campus clowns at Yale

Could you not just watch CBeebies instead?

Blah
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2015, 02:07:33 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 16, 2015, 01:19:11 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 01:08:23 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-pc-college-protesters-who-raised-these-little-monsters/


Even a well known progressive, Bill Maher, getting tired of the campus clowns at Yale

Could you not just watch CBeebies instead?

Blah

Ah, you are watching CBeebies.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 16, 2015, 02:08:32 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:52:07 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:57:58 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 09:35:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 12, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

You bleat on about inequality but that's a huge example of one rule for some...

You don't understand  how their use of it is completely  different to white use of it?

I don't. If it's in the dictionary I should be allowed use it exactly the same way as anyone else.

or is it ok to use discrimination? How do you know my background - or are you basing it on the colour of my skin?

White use of the word carries the baggage of a history of slavery and white repression of blacks. Black use of it does not. Their use of it is basically  a "f**k you" to that history. I seriously  doubt if you can't see that and thus can only put this down to yet more intellectual  dishonesty  on your part.

I don't know your background  or skin colour. Chances are very strong you're a white Irish male, like almost all of us here.

Nobody owns a word or should dictate what language anyone else chooses to use. It's only the thought police again monitoring this. People like yourself who seem to allow this fake victimhood to continue. Isn't there still calls for reparations in the USA? Don't tell me that's chancing your arm....this is a continuation of this policy to gain leverage ...don't kid yourself its not.

Hulk Hogan, Paula Deen - careers ruined for using a particular word once
Dr Dre uses the same word multiple times in his music and wins Grammys.

If you PC bunch want equality you're not doing a good job. If anything you are tripping over yourselves to apologise.

Look at south Africa's hiring policies if you want to see good examples of how that goes...

Once again  you just ignore the historical context of the use of the word. Paula Dean and Hulk Hogan have no defence whatsoever in using the word like they did. In their contexts, it was used as a racial slur. Do you think their use of it was appropriate?
In what way is it equivalent to a black man using it in a rap song?

And WTF gas the N-word got to do with reparations? ;D

And unless you are going to explain to us how blacks are full of shit about discrimination they face, spare us the false victimization bullshit.

Honestly, you come across as someone who has a bit of resentment against black people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2015, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

Don't be a stupid Paddy.  ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 16, 2015, 05:33:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

Don't be a stupid Paddy.  ;)

You pale skinned, potato craving, self-victimising, alcoholic.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 16, 2015, 05:36:14 PM
On a different angle of the PCness is the term "Oriental" faux pas on the East Coast?

The term "Asian" annoys my shite. Mainly because its inaccurate for who is aimed at, and the subsequent confusion with Indians who arent deemed "Asian" but "Indian", and then the added confusion with that term and Native Americans

I've asked why cant they just be called "Oriental" and the only answer I get is "because that's what you call a rug".... WTF????
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 16, 2015, 07:08:18 PM
Are Isrealis Asians in the US?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 16, 2015, 07:34:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2015, 07:08:18 PM
Are Isrealis Asians in the US?

Not since they joined the Eurovision, along with Australia.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 17, 2015, 03:35:15 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 15, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/maher-goes-off-on-pc-college-protesters-who-raised-these-little-monsters/


Even a well known progressive, Bill Maher, getting tired of the campus clowns at Yale

I despise that bollocks, cant abide him at all at all.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:40:21 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 16, 2015, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

Don't be a stupid Paddy.  ;)

Shut up you bog-trotting, sheep-shagging leprechaun
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.

Why would a friend of yours call you a fenian or a taig in the first place?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 02:06:48 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.

Why would a friend of yours call you a fenian or a taig in the first place?

Why does it matter? It can happen, and I think nothing of it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:33:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

No, it's called nuance and context and historical knowledge.

But, go ahead and tell us why i am wrong. Please explain us to us how a white person calling a black person the n-word, with all the baggage that history brings with that, is the same as a black person calling another black person  the n-word.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.

Why would a friend of yours call you a fenian or a taig in the first place?

You couldn't picture a northern catholic wearing the fenian slur as a badge of honour, to say "f**k you" to some bigoted DUP-types?

You cannot understand the thought process behind co-opting a slur?

You would have sympathy for a unionist in that case whining that "they can call themselves fenians, but we can't!" and "equality!"?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:56:09 PM
BTW, I am not aware of any laws preventing you from using the n-word, at least not in the states or Ireland.

So you are free to shout it at the top of your lungs, safe from the forces of the state!

Whether you have the balls to back up your apparent feelings of resentment  and defiance against this "inequality" with action is a different  issue!

You could also just start a "respect for ALL users of the n-word" or "white people are taking the n-word back... again!" campaign!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.

Why would a friend of yours call you a fenian or a taig in the first place?

You couldn't picture a northern catholic wearing the fenian slur as a badge of honour, to say "f**k you" to some bigoted DUP-types?

You cannot understand the thought process behind co-opting a slur?

You would have sympathy for a unionist in that case whining that "they can call themselves fenians, but we can't!" and "equality!"?

Nope. How is it a badge of honour? If Willie wants to use it then go ahead. I just think he's an ass for doing so but i'm not going to start some witchhunt for saying it, even with the historical usage it carries along with it.

Maybe I have thicker skin than you do J70....you seem to be quite touchy at the slightest thing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:33:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

No, it's called nuance and context and historical knowledge.

But, go ahead and tell us why i am wrong. Please explain us to us how a white person calling a black person the n-word, with all the baggage that history brings with that, is the same as a black person calling another black person  the n-word.

Because it's a word. Now don't be having another of your little hissy fits.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:37:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 02:00:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 17, 2015, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

I don't mind being called a fenian or taig by my friends. If Jamie Bryson or Willie Frazer called me one, I'd feel an awful lot different.

Why would a friend of yours call you a fenian or a taig in the first place?

You couldn't picture a northern catholic wearing the fenian slur as a badge of honour, to say "f**k you" to some bigoted DUP-types?

You cannot understand the thought process behind co-opting a slur?

You would have sympathy for a unionist in that case whining that "they can call themselves fenians, but we can't!" and "equality!"?

Nope. How is it a badge of honour? If Willie wants to use it then go ahead. I just think he's an ass for doing so but i'm not going to start some witchhunt for saying it, even with the historical usage it carries along with it.

Maybe I have thicker skin than you do J70....you seem to be quite touchy at the slightest thing.

Not really. I'm not the one seemingly upset because  I can't say the n-word while blacks can.

And the badge of honour thing, if I must explain it, refers to someone taking an intended slur, saying "f**k you, I'm not going to let this word be used to put me down", and co-opting it and redefining it. It's actually quite common. And its hilarious  watching the bigots get their knickers in a twist when it happens!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 04:52:08 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 02:33:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 16, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 13, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: stew on November 13, 2015, 02:41:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 12, 2015, 08:53:54 PM
BTW foxcommander, are you really  bothered by the fact that white people can't use the N-word, but black people have reclaimed it?

It irks me to be honest, it is a repugnant word that should be eradicated to history, it is hypocritical for a black man to call another black man the N word.

Richard Prior figured that out late in life, I would say Bill Cosby as well but you know! :P

It's still only a word though even if it's offensive to some. It's amazing how hysterical some can get - the paula deen witchunt was evidence.

There can't be double standards if you bang on about a fair society. Key and Peele use it in their routines - hilarious. Michael Richards uses it in a standup routine - career over.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on anyone using a word.

Unless the word is "Voldemort". Or "Candyman" 3 times in a row.

Apart from the fact that Key and Peele are black, and Michael Richards and Paula Dean are white. You are full of shit if you say  can't see the difference in the context of when and how they said it and baggage that the race of the person  using the word brings.

If you think, as Stew says, that blacks probably  should just let the word die, fine, that is a separate argument, albeit something that is not up to you, assuming you are a white person.

But this idea that black and white use of the word is equivalent is just idiotic and is a childish naked play for false victimhood. "They're using the word, so why can't I?" :'(

It's called equality - or is that not what you want?

No, it's called nuance and context and historical knowledge.

But, go ahead and tell us why i am wrong. Please explain us to us how a white person calling a black person the n-word, with all the baggage that history brings with that, is the same as a black person calling another black person  the n-word.

Because it's a word. Now don't be having another of your little hissy fits.

Its the same because it's a word?

Obviously there is more to it than it just being a word. For starters YOU seem to care an awful lot about it for it just to be a simple word. That aside, you refuse to acknowledge the bleeding obvious (once again), so there's not much else to say, for now.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Of course its only a word, and a word is only a sound that we hear, and associate it with a concept in our minds. But its not about that sound, its really about the concept you are trying to project from your mind to the outside world.

If you use any of the words that you chaps have mentioned for whatever reason they have become commonly understood to be associated with a derogatory concept about certain people. If you are going to use it, you need to be dam well aware of this association and its consequences. And if you are using it in a non derogatory way (irony camaraderie, whatever) you need to use some means of disassociating with the derogatory concepts to the audience that hears it, whether that be context, lengthy explanation or whatever. Otherwise your gonna run into a world of shit, which you actually might anyway, alls it takes is one of audience to not understand the non-derogatory concept your trying to project and you'll be associated with the derogatory concept forever.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Of course its only a word, and a word is only a sound that we hear, and associate it with a concept in our minds. But its not about that sound, its really about the concept you are trying to project from your mind to the outside world.

If you use any of the words that you chaps have mentioned for whatever reason they have become commonly understood to be associated with a derogatory concept about certain people. If you are going to use it, you need to be dam well aware of this association and its consequences. And if you are using it in a non derogatory way (irony camaraderie, whatever) you need to use some means of disassociating with the derogatory concepts to the audience that hears it, whether that be context, lengthy explanation or whatever. Otherwise your gonna run into a world of shit, which you actually might anyway, alls it takes is one of audience to not understand the non-derogatory concept your trying to project and you'll be associated with the derogatory concept forever.

I hear you Joe. I just cant stand the hypocrisy to be so offended by a word but then use it so flagrantly yourself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 17, 2015, 08:47:37 PM
Friend of mine said he loves the word "c*nt", in fact he says it is one of his all time favourite words. Still maintains he has the right to punch in the mouth anybody that calls him one though.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 08:49:02 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Of course its only a word, and a word is only a sound that we hear, and associate it with a concept in our minds. But its not about that sound, its really about the concept you are trying to project from your mind to the outside world.

If you use any of the words that you chaps have mentioned for whatever reason they have become commonly understood to be associated with a derogatory concept about certain people. If you are going to use it, you need to be dam well aware of this association and its consequences. And if you are using it in a non derogatory way (irony camaraderie, whatever) you need to use some means of disassociating with the derogatory concepts to the audience that hears it, whether that be context, lengthy explanation or whatever. Otherwise your gonna run into a world of shit, which you actually might anyway, alls it takes is one of audience to not understand the non-derogatory concept your trying to project and you'll be associated with the derogatory concept forever.

I hear you Joe. I just cant stand the hypocrisy to be so offended by a word but then use it so flagrantly yourself.

You say you hear him and then just ignore what he said, all in the same sentence? ;D

How can it be hypocrisy when you are not using the word in the same offensive way?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 17, 2015, 08:47:37 PM
Friend of mine said he loves the word "c*nt", in fact he says it is one of his all time favourite words. Still maintains he has the right to punch in the mouth anybody that calls him one though.

As long as he is willing to accept  the same from anyone he himself uses it against in the same spirit!

"C*nt" is an interesting one. Run of the mill for those of us from Ireland; horrible, disgusting, lowest of the low, misogynistic slur in the US!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 08:55:30 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 17, 2015, 07:33:09 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Of course its only a word, and a word is only a sound that we hear, and associate it with a concept in our minds. But its not about that sound, its really about the concept you are trying to project from your mind to the outside world.

If you use any of the words that you chaps have mentioned for whatever reason they have become commonly understood to be associated with a derogatory concept about certain people. If you are going to use it, you need to be dam well aware of this association and its consequences. And if you are using it in a non derogatory way (irony camaraderie, whatever) you need to use some means of disassociating with the derogatory concepts to the audience that hears it, whether that be context, lengthy explanation or whatever. Otherwise your gonna run into a world of shit, which you actually might anyway, alls it takes is one of audience to not understand the non-derogatory concept your trying to project and you'll be associated with the derogatory concept forever.

I hear you Joe. I just cant stand the hypocrisy to be so offended by a word but then use it so flagrantly yourself.

If you take it at face value of a sound = a word = a single meaning then of course its contradictory. But as I said languages are much more complicated than that as they project our thoughts and concepts to the outside world

But its not the word, its the derogatory concept that the listener would be offended by. If they also use the same word in a non derogatory way they are trying to project a different concept, and if thats how its understood by speaker and listener then there is no problem.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 17, 2015, 08:47:37 PM
Friend of mine said he loves the word "c*nt", in fact he says it is one of his all time favourite words. Still maintains he has the right to punch in the mouth anybody that calls him one though.

As long as he is willing to accept  the same from anyone he himself uses it against in the same spirit!

"C*nt" is an interesting one. Run of the mill for those of us from Ireland; horrible, disgusting, lowest of the low, misogynistic slur in the US!

Is it? I knew it was seriously faux pas but I didnt know that.

I use it the odd time here, wanna see the looks I get!  ;D ;D ;D

....But in light of the above I might quit! Tho I usually be taking about men...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 09:06:37 PM
...just to clarify, is it derogatory about women?

or

...a hateful way to call someone a woman hater?


obviously googling is NSFW
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 17, 2015, 09:32:32 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 09:06:37 PM
...just to clarify, is it derogatory about women?

or

...a hateful way to call someone a woman hater?


obviously googling is NSFW

Oh, the former.

And yeah, be careful how you use it in the states!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 19, 2015, 01:44:48 AM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 17, 2015, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 17, 2015, 08:52:06 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 17, 2015, 08:47:37 PM
Friend of mine said he loves the word "c*nt", in fact he says it is one of his all time favourite words. Still maintains he has the right to punch in the mouth anybody that calls him one though.

As long as he is willing to accept  the same from anyone he himself uses it against in the same spirit!

"C*nt" is an interesting one. Run of the mill for those of us from Ireland; horrible, disgusting, lowest of the low, misogynistic slur in the US!

Is it? I knew it was seriously faux pas but I didnt know that.

I use it the odd time here, wanna see the looks I get!  ;D ;D ;D

....But in light of the above I might quit! Tho I usually be taking about men...

Where in the States are you Joe?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881

Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881

Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.

Nah.

Give everyone guns so that you wouldn't need police then. Both the woman and the med student would have been armed so there would have been a shootout and the bad guy would be dead, just like the movies.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881

Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.

Nah.

Give everyone guns so that you wouldn't need police then. Both the woman and the med student would have been armed so there would have been a shootout and the bad guy would be dead, just like the movies.

Muppet - What a daft comment. I was expecting you would recommend counselling for the shooter so he can be rehabilitated.

If a cop shot the guy you'd have riots and protests and the bufoons on here would be lamenting his loss, not to mention the usual #BLM group on the telly demonising the police.

Not forgetting the candlelight vigils for him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 02:44:19 PM
Well that was easy.  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2015, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881

Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.

Nah.

Give everyone guns so that you wouldn't need police then. Both the woman and the med student would have been armed so there would have been a shootout and the bad guy would be dead, just like the movies.

Muppet - What a daft comment. I was expecting you would recommend counselling for the shooter so he can be rehabilitated.

If a cop shot the guy you'd have riots and protests and the bufoons on here would be lamenting his loss, not to mention the usual #BLM group on the telly demonising the police.

Not forgetting the candlelight vigils for him.

You will have to point out where anyone has said anything about cops shooting a dangerous man brandishing a gun having just tried to kill someone. Whitey posted a video to something similar last week - maybe you'll find it in those comments.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881



Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.

Nah.

Give everyone guns so that you wouldn't need police then. Both the woman and the med student would have been armed so there would have been a shootout and the bad guy would be dead, just like the movies.

Muppet - What a daft comment. I was expecting you would recommend counselling for the shooter so he can be rehabilitated.

If a cop shot the guy you'd have riots and protests and the bufoons on here would be lamenting his loss, not to mention the usual #BLM group on the telly demonising the police.

Not forgetting the candlelight vigils for him.

You will have to point out where anyone has said anything about cops shooting a dangerous man brandishing a gun having just tried to kill someone. Whitey posted a video to something similar last week - maybe you'll find it in those comments.

Wouldn't have put it past them to make excuses...

He'd probably have had his picture plastered on the walls like Michael Brown and the other crims at the Shine A Light concert last week, featuring such a-holes as Bruce Springsteen *spit*, Nicki Minaj and John Legend (he picked his own surname).

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2015, 07:23:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:39:15 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 01:51:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 02:40:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
How do you police animals like this?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-identified-shooting-good-samaritan-new-orleans-medical-student-n467881



Catch the f**ker and send him down for a very long time, obviously.

Nah.

Give everyone guns so that you wouldn't need police then. Both the woman and the med student would have been armed so there would have been a shootout and the bad guy would be dead, just like the movies.

Muppet - What a daft comment. I was expecting you would recommend counselling for the shooter so he can be rehabilitated.

If a cop shot the guy you'd have riots and protests and the bufoons on here would be lamenting his loss, not to mention the usual #BLM group on the telly demonising the police.

Not forgetting the candlelight vigils for him.

You will have to point out where anyone has said anything about cops shooting a dangerous man brandishing a gun having just tried to kill someone. Whitey posted a video to something similar last week - maybe you'll find it in those comments.

Wouldn't have put it past them to make excuses...

He'd probably have had his picture plastered on the walls like Michael Brown and the other crims at the Shine A Light concert last week, featuring such a-holes as Bruce Springsteen *spit*, Nicki Minaj and John Legend (he picked his own surname).

So no one has said a word then?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Really?

Prove it.

Show where I defended a murderer.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 24, 2015, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

I'm surprised you haven't been screaming about the big case in Chicago were the cop was indicted today on first degree murder and the video is about to hit the public.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Really?

Prove it.

Show where I defended a murderer.

Where did I say murderer?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Really?

Prove it.

Show where I defended a murderer.

Where did I say murderer?

You were the one posted the link with the murder in it.

Have you forgotten already?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 24, 2015, 09:13:31 PM
Socal Muppet.

Overall thoughts is that the police here have an extremely tough job here, the availability of guns and wealth disparity are the source of the problem IMO.

Racial Profiling happens, the news does it, I do it all the time myself when driving. Also the police arent always the sharpest knifes in the drawer and there is a few bad eggs but most are alright considering their circumstances.

On a different slant I heard a story about the paradoxes the police face. In the 70 and 80s the LAPD was rife with localised corruption with gangs etc. So to combat this they logically enough started recruiting police without local ties. The result? Lack of understanding or empathy of the communities being policed, Police brutality skyrocketed, Community relations plummeted and as result policing became even more difficult.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 09:22:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Really?

Prove it.

Show where I defended a murderer.

Where did I say murderer?

You were the one posted the link with the murder in it.

Have you forgotten already?

And I referred to a concert broadcast on TV with springsteen and pals mourning the death of crims like Michael Brown. Try reading again.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on November 24, 2015, 09:13:31 PM
Socal Muppet.

Overall thoughts is that the police here have an extremely tough job here, the availability of guns and wealth disparity are the source of the problem IMO.

Racial Profiling happens, the news does it, I do it all the time myself when driving. Also the police arent always the sharpest knifes in the drawer and there is a few bad eggs but most are alright considering their circumstances.

On a different slant I heard a story about the paradoxes the police face. In the 70 and 80s the LAPD was rife with localised corruption with gangs etc. So to combat this they logically enough started recruiting police without local ties. The result? Lack of understanding or empathy of the communities being policed, Police brutality skyrocketed, Community relations plummeted and as result policing became even more difficult.

I have no problem with any of this.

The bad eggs need to be dealt with though. Not have excuses made for them and then blind encouragement to continue as if there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 24, 2015, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 09:22:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 09:07:51 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:48:29 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 08:19:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

Really?

Prove it.

Show where I defended a murderer.

Where did I say murderer?

You were the one posted the link with the murder in it.

Have you forgotten already?

And I referred to a concert broadcast on TV with springsteen and pals mourning the death of crims like Michael Brown. Try reading again.

You need to read your own posts.

You referenced me specifically in that that post. I was talking about the link you posted with the murder. You invented a political allegiance for me ('Lefty') and you invented pals for me. You are now pretending that you were talking about them only. And you are outraged by your inventions.

But this false reality you created doesn't change the fact that I was talking about the very real link you posted, and the very real murder contained therein.

It proves my point about you attacking arguments that weren't made and you aren't remotely bothered whether they were or weren't. You will just invent stuff and be outraged by it. FOX NEWS style.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 24, 2015, 09:38:59 PM
I once stole a 10p mix up as a kid. I guess if I ever get shot dead by cops, there wouldn't be any point to an inquest because of my criminal past.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 24, 2015, 09:50:37 PM
Quote from: gallsman on November 24, 2015, 09:38:59 PM
I once stole a 10p mix up as a kid. I guess if I ever get shot dead by cops, there wouldn't be any point to an inquest because of my criminal past.

Maybe if in the process of stealing the 10p, you pointed a gun at a police officer, or tried to run him over win a car, or shot him in the face then I'm sure there would be an inquest
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on November 24, 2015, 09:54:21 PM
Yeah, that just didn't happen.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2015, 02:14:58 AM
https://youtu.be/Ix2N6_jLAgA (https://youtu.be/Ix2N6_jLAgA)

The video from Chicago. That policeman is in trouble going by that. The kid didn't go near him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Linkbox on November 25, 2015, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

I'm surprised you haven't been screaming about the big case in Chicago were the cop was indicted today on first degree murder and the video is about to hit the public.

It's pretty bad J70.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/laquan-mcdonald-police-killing-chicago-video-released

Police statement at the time...

On the night of October 20, a squad car responded to a call that someone was trying to break into cars in an industrial area on the southwest side. The officers found a boy with a knife in the street. He ignored their orders to drop the knife. A police spokesman described the boy in terms that suggest he was emotionally disturbed. ("He's got a 100-yard stare. He's staring blankly.") The responding officers didn't have a Taser. Waiting for one to arrive, they followed the boy in their squad car, as he walked a block to 41st and Pulaski.

A second squad car arrived. The boy again refused to drop the knife. The police tried to use the two vehicles to box him in against a construction fence on Pulaski. He punctured a tire and damaged the front windshield of one of the police cars. Officers got out of their vehicles. The boy approached them with the knife in his hand. One of the officers shot him in the chest. He was pronounced dead at Mount Sinai Hospital.


What the video shows...

The video, which last six minutes and 54 seconds, captures the final moments of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald's life on 20 October 2014 as he is confronted by two armed police officers in the middle of a Chicago street. The teenager is seen striding down the center of a two-way street and appears to be carrying a knife when the dashboard camera of a police patrol vehicle captures the moment that two officers point handguns at him.

He turns briefly toward one of the officers and is then shot, the impact of the first bullet apparently spinning him around before he collapses on the street. A puff of smoke or dust can be seen rising from his body apparently as a bullet hits the ground. The camera continues to focus on his prone body as the officers, now out of frame, shoot him multiple times. An autopsy report from the Cook County medical examiner's office showed that McDonald was shot 16 times.

Documents filed in court describing the video's contents say for 14 to 15 seconds, the officer – Jason Van Dyke– unloads his entire gun into the teen, who is laying face down on the ground with his arms and legs jerking from the impact of the shots. Of the eight or more officers on the scene, Van Dyke is the only one to have discharged his weapon, although a colleague can be seen with his gun drawn and pointed at McDonald.

The video ends shortly after a final puff of smoke rises from the ground and one of the officers moves forward and appears to kick an object from McDonald's right hand.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2015, 02:32:39 AM
Quote from: Linkbox on November 25, 2015, 02:16:40 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 24, 2015, 08:23:07 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 24, 2015, 08:17:28 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 24, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
So you are arguing and even spitting at people for arguments that 'you wouldn't put it past them to make' but that nonetheless you don't know and don't care whether they made them or not?

I don't care much for springsteen. It's not like you and your lefty pals haven't defended these crims being heralded before.

I'm surprised you haven't been screaming about the big case in Chicago were the cop was indicted today on first degree murder and the video is about to hit the public.

It's pretty bad J70.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/laquan-mcdonald-police-killing-chicago-video-released

Police statement at the time...

On the night of October 20, a squad car responded to a call that someone was trying to break into cars in an industrial area on the southwest side. The officers found a boy with a knife in the street. He ignored their orders to drop the knife. A police spokesman described the boy in terms that suggest he was emotionally disturbed. ("He's got a 100-yard stare. He's staring blankly.") The responding officers didn't have a Taser. Waiting for one to arrive, they followed the boy in their squad car, as he walked a block to 41st and Pulaski.

A second squad car arrived. The boy again refused to drop the knife. The police tried to use the two vehicles to box him in against a construction fence on Pulaski. He punctured a tire and damaged the front windshield of one of the police cars. Officers got out of their vehicles. The boy approached them with the knife in his hand. One of the officers shot him in the chest. He was pronounced dead at Mount Sinai Hospital.


What the video shows...

The video, which last six minutes and 54 seconds, captures the final moments of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald's life on 20 October 2014 as he is confronted by two armed police officers in the middle of a Chicago street. The teenager is seen striding down the center of a two-way street and appears to be carrying a knife when the dashboard camera of a police patrol vehicle captures the moment that two officers point handguns at him.

He turns briefly toward one of the officers and is then shot, the impact of the first bullet apparently spinning him around before he collapses on the street. A puff of smoke or dust can be seen rising from his body apparently as a bullet hits the ground. The camera continues to focus on his prone body as the officers, now out of frame, shoot him multiple times. An autopsy report from the Cook County medical examiner's office showed that McDonald was shot 16 times.

Documents filed in court describing the video's contents say for 14 to 15 seconds, the officer – Jason Van Dyke– unloads his entire gun into the teen, who is laying face down on the ground with his arms and legs jerking from the impact of the shots. Of the eight or more officers on the scene, Van Dyke is the only one to have discharged his weapon, although a colleague can be seen with his gun drawn and pointed at McDonald.

The video ends shortly after a final puff of smoke rises from the ground and one of the officers moves forward and appears to kick an object from McDonald's right hand.


And people have the nerve to wonder why black people do not trust the cops. What if there had been no video?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 25, 2015, 04:46:18 AM
Maybe they're mentally ill. But it's a bit hard to fix that after they've been summerily executed.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on November 25, 2015, 05:07:08 AM
Reminded me alot of this....
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/sep/07/local/me-ashley7
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 25, 2015, 05:28:06 AM
Fox will be along any second with the usual "och sure he deserved it" and "what else are the cops supposed to do" defense.  In the hope that he doesn't suffer from the reality-distortion field that most American conservatives live in, here is some incontrovertible evidence that it is possible to disarm a knife-wielding person without riddling him with bullets:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/31/man-knife-attacks-cops-uk-orig.cnn (http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/31/man-knife-attacks-cops-uk-orig.cnn)

I await Fox's "but the USA has different laws of physics" defense with great interest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Denn Forever on November 25, 2015, 11:20:02 AM
I wonder what happens  in states where it is legal to openly carry guns?

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20150211-open-carry-in-other-states-has-its-limits.ece

Also what did the Statute say before it was Amended?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.

If Trump had his way the kid would have had a gun, like everyone else. And then there would be no issue with his death.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 25, 2015, 05:28:06 AM
Fox will be along any second with the usual "och sure he deserved it" and "what else are the cops supposed to do" defense.  In the hope that he doesn't suffer from the reality-distortion field that most American conservatives live in, here is some incontrovertible evidence that it is possible to disarm a knife-wielding person without riddling him with bullets:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/31/man-knife-attacks-cops-uk-orig.cnn (http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/07/31/man-knife-attacks-cops-uk-orig.cnn)

I await Fox's "but the USA has different laws of physics" defense with great interest.

I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.


erm...he was walking down the road brandishing a knife....
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.


erm...he was walking down the road brandishing a knife....

Correct.

But you have been defending cops shooting unarmed people dead. So it is a no-brainer that you would cheer for the instant execution of someone carrying a knife.

Good to see the authorities are waking up to these rogue cops though. The worst thing is that in the past stupid kids were just stupid kids, but now if they think they are instantly about to be shot dead, they might panic and do something even more stupid. This trigger-happy situation could escalate and make life more dangerous for cops as well as citizens.

Defending the cops is doing no-one any good. Least of all the cops.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 09:36:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.


erm...he was walking down the road brandishing a knife....

Correct.

But you have been defending cops shooting unarmed people dead. So it is a no-brainer that you would cheer for the instant execution of someone carrying a knife.


This guy wasn't unarmed. End of.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 25, 2015, 10:05:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 09:36:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.


erm...he was walking down the road brandishing a knife....

Correct.

But you have been defending cops shooting unarmed people dead. So it is a no-brainer that you would cheer for the instant execution of someone carrying a knife.


This guy wasn't unarmed. End of.

The cop has been charged with murder.

It certainly isn't 'end of'.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 26, 2015, 12:19:10 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 10:05:59 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 09:36:04 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 25, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
Quote from: J70 on November 25, 2015, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 04:30:42 AM
I do have to wonder why would anyone walk down the street brandishing a knife if they didn't want to appear as a danger to the public.

Probably drunk or high looking at the way he was walking.

Do you think the policeman's response was appropriate?

They have been defending cops that shoot unarmed people.


erm...he was walking down the road brandishing a knife....

Correct.

But you have been defending cops shooting unarmed people dead. So it is a no-brainer that you would cheer for the instant execution of someone carrying a knife.


This guy wasn't unarmed. End of.

The cop has been charged with murder.

It certainly isn't 'end of'.

He can't even admit that the cop in this case fucked up!  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 26, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
Not every police shooting is justified......this one certainly wasn't

Not every police shooting is motivated by race.....this one probably was

There are approx 4-500 black on black murders in Chicago and the surrounding towns every year

(When some of the housing projects were knocked, the residents were relocated to surrounding towns, turning them into war zones as well)

Maybe the BLM movement could divert some of heir rage towards their own people who are destroying their communities

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Walter Cronc on November 26, 2015, 02:52:33 PM
Read recently that Chicago and Toronto are roughly the same size. Apparently there are more murders in one month in Chicago than in one year in Toronto. Crazy!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.

You better bring your pepper spray and baton when you visit Oakland then....Can't wait to hear how you get on...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on November 26, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.

You better bring your pepper spray and baton when you visit Oakland then....Can't wait to hear how you get on...

Here's a question. . . why do the police gun down these people? Surely someone wielding a knife can be incapacitated with a shot to the leg?!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: deiseach on November 26, 2015, 04:46:41 PM
They wouldn't be there but for the men of violence. . . you have nothing to worry about if you are a law-abiding citizen . . . you should worry more about the killers in your own community . . . all the arguments deployed to defend the loose-cannon policing in the United States were deployed by every Unionist bigot after the latest atrocity visited upon the Nationalist population by the security forces. To see them regurgitated here is utterly shameful.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 26, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
Not every police shooting is justified......this one certainly wasn't

Not every police shooting is motivated by race.....this one probably was

There are approx 4-500 black on black murders in Chicago and the surrounding towns every year

(When some of the housing projects were knocked, the residents were relocated to surrounding towns, turning them into war zones as well)

Maybe the BLM movement could divert some of heir rage towards their own people who are destroying their communities

I agree with everything you say.

The only thing is, I think we should hold the police to a far higher standard than the local petty hoodlums. So it is important to send out the right message from the law enforcement point of view.

As for the black on black crime. The stats are appalling. And it needs to be dealt with. But it shouldn't be used as cover for bad eggs in the police force.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 26, 2015, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 26, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
Not every police shooting is justified......this one certainly wasn't

Not every police shooting is motivated by race.....this one probably was

There are approx 4-500 black on black murders in Chicago and the surrounding towns every year

(When some of the housing projects were knocked, the residents were relocated to surrounding towns, turning them into war zones as well)

Maybe the BLM movement could divert some of heir rage towards their own people who are destroying their communities

I agree with everything you say.

The only thing is, I think we should hold the police to a far higher standard than the local petty hoodlums. So it is important to send out the right message from the law enforcement point of view.

As for the black on black crime. The stats are appalling. And it needs to be dealt with. But it shouldn't be used as cover for bad eggs in the police force.

there should be no cover for the bad eggs in the police force but you only had to look at the RUC in your own back yard to understand how these feckers get protected.

Black on black crime is an absolute disgrace, were are these protesters on that issue?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 05:38:47 PM
Quote from: screenexile on November 26, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.

You better bring your pepper spray and baton when you visit Oakland then....Can't wait to hear how you get on...

Here's a question. . . why do the police gun down these people? Surely someone wielding a knife can be incapacitated with a shot to the leg?!

Absolutely. A taser would have been more appropriate.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 26, 2015, 05:39:45 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on November 26, 2015, 02:52:33 PM
Read recently that Chicago and Toronto are roughly the same size. Apparently there are more murders in one month in Chicago than in one year in Toronto. Crazy!

True enough. Toronto has European style murder rates and is probably less than Dublin

Chicago on the other hand http://heyjackass.com/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 26, 2015, 05:52:14 PM
No one can even begin to imagine what some of these kids have to deal with when growing up

There is no easy fix to these issues short of some serious social engineering

This case was particularly horrific, bt you can see how someone could grow up to be a stone cold killer


(I understand this guy wasn't convicted of murder, but you can see how one human being could have complete lack of empathy for others)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 26, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 05:52:14 PM
No one can even begin to imagine what some of these kids have to deal with when growing up

There is no easy fix to these issues short of some serious social engineering

This case was particularly horrific, bt you can see how someone could grow up to be a stone cold killer


(I understand this guy wasn't convicted of murder, but you can see how one human being could have complete lack of empathy for others)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-sex-trafficking-sentencing-met-20141017-story.html

How do you save someone like that, before they commit the terrible crime? That judge was very understanding in fairness. Because he did serious damage to those girls' lives. 'Breaking the cycle' is right.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
There are approx 4-500 black on black murders in Chicago and the surrounding towns every year

There's plenty of white-on-white violence. That's because most people are killed by people they know, but that doesn't stop people going on about black-on-black violence as if it proves that blacks are genetically predisposed to violence.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.

You better bring your pepper spray and baton when you visit Oakland then....Can't wait to hear how you get on...

3 things.

1 - I'm not a police officer.

2 - I've told you until I'm blue in the face that I've been to Oakland many times.

3 - I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you keep going on about me visiting Oakland. What point are you trying to make?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 02:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 04:49:56 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 25, 2015, 05:30:42 PM
I look forward to the day you are asked to risk your life unarming a knife wielding assailant with your bare hands.
You'd be wishing you had a gun then.

Nice little straw man. Clearly you didn't watch the video. They didn't disarm him with their "bare hands." They used pepper spray and batons.

You better bring your pepper spray and baton when you visit Oakland then....Can't wait to hear how you get on...

3 things.

1 - I'm not a police officer.

2 - I've told you until I'm blue in the face that I've been to Oakland many times.

3 - I'm still waiting for you to tell me why you keep going on about me visiting Oakland. What point are you trying to make?

You already know from prior correspondence. You can review at your leisure.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:28:22 PM
Translation: "I'm too lazy to make my own argument, go off and laboriously search through the archives and make my argument for me."

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 26, 2015, 06:34:16 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:22:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 02:46:29 PM
There are approx 4-500 black on black murders in Chicago and the surrounding towns every year

There's plenty of white-on-white violence. That's because most people are killed by people they know, but that doesn't stop people going on about black-on-black violence as if it proves that blacks are genetically predisposed to violence.

I referring to Chicago specifically....how many white people are killed in the city of Chicago every year?

Very few I would imagine. Prove me wrong and put the numbers up
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on November 26, 2015, 07:11:25 PM
Can someone point me to the guffaw emoticon?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 07:13:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:28:22 PM
Translation: "I'm too lazy to make my own argument, go off and laboriously search through the archives and make my argument for me."

Probably be far more fun than watching those awful NACB videos...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
According to Justice Department statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 26, 2015, 11:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
According to Justice Department statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)


I haven't a clue why your going down this path (unless to distract from the black on black crime that happens on the big cities.

Go back and reread the thread...

.I'm specifically referring to the  400/500 murders per year in Chicago...that are BLACK ON BLACK....

What part of that we're you unable to comprehend first go around
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 27, 2015, 02:29:45 AM
MSNBC had a Mayor on who claims he is far more concerned with white on white crime than he is Muslim extremists, that is fine and all except for the fact that he lives in an area were 97% of the homeowners are white!

Donald Trump is finished I hope after mocking a disabled reporter, what sort of **** does that? The fact of the matter is he is leading in the polls.......................Just.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 27, 2015, 04:44:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 11:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
According to Justice Department statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)


I haven't a clue why your going down this path (unless to distract from the black on black crime that happens on the big cities.

Go back and reread the thread...

.I'm specifically referring to the  400/500 murders per year in Chicago...that are BLACK ON BLACK....

What part of that we're you unable to comprehend first go around
Whitey,
i thought he was addressing the point pretty well actually

however there are about 15,000 murders in the US every year.
about 9000 of those are gun deaths about 60%
about 45% of american households have a (registered) gun

ref Chicago:
in 2014 there were 390 murders recorded by Chicago PD (lowest in nearly 50 years)

now here's where it gets interesting:
The victim in about 80% of those cases is black, and about 17% are hispanic

year to date numbers are up- 453 so far. arrests have been made (or cop accused, or murder/suicide)

However your claims are in for a lot of questioning, because less than a quarter of the murders in Chicago are solved.

hard to know whodunnit. Hard to know their race...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2015, 03:09:16 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 27, 2015, 04:44:26 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 26, 2015, 11:13:28 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
According to Justice Department statistics, 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf (http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf)


I haven't a clue why your going down this path (unless to distract from the black on black crime that happens on the big cities.

Go back and reread the thread...

.I'm specifically referring to the  400/500 murders per year in Chicago...that are BLACK ON BLACK....

What part of that we're you unable to comprehend first go around
Whitey,
i thought he was addressing the point pretty well actually

however there are about 15,000 murders in the US every year.
about 9000 of those are gun deaths about 60%
about 45% of american households have a (registered) gun

ref Chicago:
in 2014 there were 390 murders recorded by Chicago PD (lowest in nearly 50 years)

now here's where it gets interesting:
The victim in about 80% of those cases is black, and about 17% are hispanic

year to date numbers are up- 453 so far. arrests have been made (or cop accused, or murder/suicide)

However your claims are in for a lot of questioning, because less than a quarter of the murders in Chicago are solved.

hard to know whodunnit. Hard to know their race...

The dogs in the street know who's responsible.....but the no snitching culture makes it almost impossible to bring prosecutions.

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on November 27, 2015, 07:35:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on November 26, 2015, 07:13:58 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 26, 2015, 06:28:22 PM
Translation: "I'm too lazy to make my own argument, go off and laboriously search through the archives and make my argument for me."

Probably be far more fun than watching those awful NACB videos...

No smart answer this time Eamonn?? You've had a whole day to think about it ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 27, 2015, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

What bullshit you speak............................... You have just marginalized a serious issue in American society, the statistics don't lie, the families destroyed by black on black crime are really really distraught and racist mudering cops are a completely separate issue!

How many white people are killed by other whites, compare that to black on black murder and see what jumps out at you!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2015, 09:07:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.

They're intertwined......a civilian police force is expected to police neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.   
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 27, 2015, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 09:07:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.

They're intertwined......a civilian police force is expected to police neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.

That is simply blaming the black communities for cops shooting unarmed black people dead. Because it is a 'virtual war zone'. Even in non-virtual war zones there are rules of engagement.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 27, 2015, 11:14:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 09:07:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.

They're intertwined......a civilian police force is expected to police neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.

That is simply blaming the black communities for cops shooting unarmed black people dead. Because it is a 'virtual war zone'. Even in non-virtual war zones there are rules of engagement.


Thats a very broad statement and not at all representative of what I said

Regular black people trying to live their lives and raise their families are being terrorized by their own people.  If we eliminated every unjustified police shooting it would be a rounding error compared to what their own own people are doing to them
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 28, 2015, 01:52:12 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 11:14:50 PM
Regular black people trying to live their lives and raise their families are being terrorized by their own people.  If we eliminated every unjustified police shooting it would be a rounding error compared to what their own own people are doing to them

This is true. However, the police would get more support if they acted professionally at all times, for every black person shot there is 100 more needlessly harassed. But the police are only one facet of public action in that some parts of the city are being allowed become places where normal society is not allowed exist.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on November 28, 2015, 02:08:16 AM
people cant have it both ways.

If you are for gun control to combat all the  social misery it entails then you must accept that until you eliminate all guns there will be some police officer somehere staring down the face of a gun and contemplating the immediate extinction of his existence.

it is very real. No second chances.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on November 28, 2015, 02:47:41 AM
Quote from: periere on November 28, 2015, 02:08:16 AM
people cant have it both ways.

If you are against gun control and all the social misery it entails then you must accept that until you eliminate all guns then there will be some police officer somehere staring down the face of a gun and contemplating the immediate extinction of his existence.

it is very real. No second chances.

Well then do like Canada, things seem to work there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on November 28, 2015, 03:05:57 AM
That doesn't address the question. We are talking about the US.

If I was a cop going to work everyday I would be in fear of my life. It only takes a millisecond for a
gun to kill. You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.

Surely gun control advocates can  see the  dilemma that police face ?

Solve the gun control problem and then you can judge police in the US.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on November 28, 2015, 05:16:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 03:09:16 PM

The dogs in the street know who's responsible.....but the no snitching culture makes it almost impossible to bring prosecutions.

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

Ah- the dogs in the street- always good for a couple of rounds of bullshit. lets ask the FBI

stats for 2013-
3005 murders white people- race of offender in 2509 cases- white...

2491 murders of black people- race of offender in 2245 case- black...

I think what needs to be addressed is male on anyone murder. 3976 men murdered, 3505 male offenders, 1679 women murdered, 1515 male offenders. i think we should start there...

Dogs in the street, those damn dogs, make it up as you go along apparently.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls)


Quote from: periere on November 28, 2015, 03:05:57 AM
You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.


I don't even know where to start on this one. I could also wake up dead some morning
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 28, 2015, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: heganboy on November 28, 2015, 05:16:24 AM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 03:09:16 PM

The dogs in the street know who's responsible.....but the no snitching culture makes it almost impossible to bring prosecutions.

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

http://www.pulitzer.org/archives/9167

Ah- the dogs in the street- always good for a couple of rounds of bullshit. lets ask the FBI

stats for 2013-
3005 murders white people- race of offender in 2509 cases- white...

2491 murders of black people- race of offender in 2245 case- black...

I think what needs to be addressed is male on anyone murder. 3976 men murdered, 3505 male offenders, 1679 women murdered, 1515 male offenders. i think we should start there...

Dogs in the street, those damn dogs, make it up as you go along apparently.


https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls (https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls)


Quote from: periere on November 28, 2015, 03:05:57 AM
You could be dead before you even realize the person is armed.


I don't even know where to start on this one. I could also wake up dead some Morningstar

LOL-The worst neighborhoods in Chicago have an 85 per 100000 murder rate-these rates are almost impossible to comprehend.

Keep making excuses for them

(This just came across my Facebook feed-scary stuff

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chilling-details-revealed-bond-hearing-suspect-tyshawn-lees/story?id=35454416 )
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 28, 2015, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 11:14:50 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 10:32:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 09:07:24 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 27, 2015, 08:57:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 27, 2015, 08:49:33 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on November 27, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
You're missing the point, Whitey. "Black on black crime" is one of those BS talking points that the right has concocted to distract from racist murderous cops. Most victims are killed by people they know. Of course most victims are going to be killed by people of their own race.

Here's the breakdown by neighborhood of the murder rate in Chicago....I'm sure those living in the worst neighborhoods wouldn't regard a murder rate of 85 per 100,000 residents as "right wing BS talking points". They are being terrorized by their own people day in and day out

If we got rid of every single bad apple out of every police dept in the entire country, my guess is that these rates would continue unchecked

http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/The-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-In-Chicago-186719391.html

Why is the latter being used to cover the former?

Neither are acceptable. Both need to be dealt with.

They're intertwined......a civilian police force is expected to police neighborhoods that are virtual war zones.

That is simply blaming the black communities for cops shooting unarmed black people dead. Because it is a 'virtual war zone'. Even in non-virtual war zones there are rules of engagement.


Thats a very broad statement and not at all representative of what I said

Regular black people trying to live their lives and raise their families are being terrorized by their own people.  If we eliminated every unjustified police shooting it would be a rounding error compared to what their own own people are doing to them

This has nothing to do with black on black crime. You say the issues are intertwined, but lay all of the blame on the community, and none of the blame on the trigger happy cops. Defending the small, but high proflie, wrongful killings by the cops, sends a message that lives in that community are valued less than elsewhere. If trained and presumably educated and upstanding citizens (otherwise the recruitment process is the problem) think that, what hope is there for the hoodlums to value anyone's life any higher?

If you don't hold the cops to a high standard, then don't expect those being policed by them to have high standards either.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 29, 2015, 03:16:30 PM
Where am I laying ALL of the blame ON the Black community?

In fact Spike Lee has had something to say on the matter.....

http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2015/11/16/spike-lee-s-comments-on-black-lives-matter-might-piss-you-off1.html


"We cannot be out there" protesting police violence "and then when it comes to young brothers killing themselves, then mum's the word. No one's saying nothing? It's got to be both ends," Lee said, adding that he's "all for Black Lives Matter," but "we as a people can't be blind" to Black-on-Black crime
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 29, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 29, 2015, 03:16:30 PM
Where am I laying ALL of the blame ON the Black community?

In fact Spike Lee has had something to say on the matter.....

http://www.bet.com/news/celebrities/2015/11/16/spike-lee-s-comments-on-black-lives-matter-might-piss-you-off1.html


"We cannot be out there" protesting police violence "and then when it comes to young brothers killing themselves, then mum's the word. No one's saying nothing? It's got to be both ends," Lee said, adding that he's "all for Black Lives Matter," but "we as a people can't be blind" to Black-on-Black crime

Spike Lee is right.

But he isn't using black on black violence as an excuse for the cops behaviour. 'It has got to be both ends' I interpret as seeing two problem, both needing sovling. You appear to use one as an excuse for the other.

'A civilian police force is expected to police neighbourhoods that are virtual war zones'

This sentence, whether intended or not, suggests that the police have an impossible job. And whether intended or not, it reads as making excuses for the bad egg cops.

Regarding the incident, why did none of the many other cops present at that incident shoot? Why did one cop feel the need to shoot a man 14 times, and re-load presumably to shoot some more, when none of the other cops felt threatened enough to fire a single shot?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2015, 01:44:55 AM
What happened in Chicago makes no sense at all. The guy was not an immediate threat and could have easily been immobilized by a taser or some other non lethal weapon. None of the other 10+ cops who were there saw the need to open fire. If I were to guess I'd say that maybe it was a case of roid rage, combined with booze and the cop had become completely volatile (pure speculation on my behalf.  The stress these guys are under is off the charts and I'd guess he just cracked

Violent neighborhoods are policed more aggressively than low crime neighborhoods....that's just a fact of life and it happens the world over.  Given the prevalence of firearms in the big US cities, what would normally be routine calls...traffic stops, noise complaints, domestic disputes, public intoxication.....take on a whole different dynamic VERY QUICKLY.  What may be a minor encounter in a low crime neighborhood, can very quickly escalate into an all bloodbath in a high crime neighborhood.

Case in point:   http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-playground-party-parade-35364110

In order for them to protect themselves and react quickly to very dangerous situations, their actions can seem heavy handed to the outside observer
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2015, 03:17:43 PM
I pretty much agree with all of that.

But it doesn't excuse the cop in Chicago. And some of the other incidents either. You can't have a police force where a small group of members skip the justice part and deliver the maximum sentence without any process. If the stress is too much for them, then quit. Or take them off the streets. Do something else. Lots of people have stressful jobs. But they are all expected to function to the required standard.

A tight-rope walker with vertigo is a danger to everyone below him, never mind himself.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on November 30, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet dickheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on November 30, 2015, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet d**kheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

Rogue cops should be incarcerated, the vast majority are decent men and woman, very few are bad but they need to be rooted out today.

Black on black crime in Chicago is an absolute disgrace as is Jesse Jackson, marching against rogue cops is fine but why not host a march against black on black crime which is a much bigger area of concern?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 30, 2015, 06:17:32 PM
Quote from: stew on November 30, 2015, 06:10:31 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet d**kheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

Rogue cops should be incarcerated, the vast majority are decent men and woman, very few are bad but they need to be rooted out today.

Black on black crime in Chicago is an absolute disgrace as is Jesse Jackson, marching against rogue cops is fine but why not host a march against black on black crime which is a much bigger area of concern?

Ironically Jesse Jackson was one of the first black leaders to raise the issue of black on black crime. For that stand he took lots of grief from the black community.

Here is an article from 21 years ago: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-01-18/news/1994018198_1_black-on-black-crime-jesse-jackson-black-and-white (http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-01-18/news/1994018198_1_black-on-black-crime-jesse-jackson-black-and-white)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Disturbing.

Interesting to see that any race can be shot by police in that county. They aren't bothered.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Disturbing.

Interesting to see that any race can be shot by police in that county. They aren't bothered.

Whats even more interesting is that the Sherrif is an ELECTED official.  Obviously some people think hes doing a good job-LOL

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Donny-Youngblood-Kern-County-California-illegals/2015/04/10/id/637714/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Disturbing.

Interesting to see that any race can be shot by police in that county. They aren't bothered.

Whats even more interesting is that the Sherrif is an ELECTED official.  Obviously some people think hes doing a good job-LOL

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Donny-Youngblood-Kern-County-California-illegals/2015/04/10/id/637714/

True.

But even Hitler & Stalin were elected (occasionally).
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 05:14:32 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: muppet on December 01, 2015, 03:27:18 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Disturbing.

Interesting to see that any race can be shot by police in that county. They aren't bothered.

Whats even more interesting is that the Sherrif is an ELECTED official.  Obviously some people think hes doing a good job-LOL

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Donny-Youngblood-Kern-County-California-illegals/2015/04/10/id/637714/

True.

But even Hitler & Stalin were elected (occasionally).

Maybe the Garda could hire him to confront the robbery gangs marauding throughout the countryside.

Open up full bore on any cvnt he didn't like the look of

I'd say he'd be petty popular 😀
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 05:19:35 PM
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/1143320/sneed-exclusive-mccarthy-fired

McCarthy fired in Chicago.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Interesting read that, got a few friends in Bakersfield....they say some "interesting" things. Lets not forget the Okies discrimination (grapes of wrath) and Cesar Chavez activism in Kern County and you might get an idea of the prevailing attitude towards "the newcomers" in the area.

Although what struck me most about this article was the county's with the highest police homicide rate. 4 out of the 10 or so in Socal are in top 15 :o :o :o, and some of the others are very sparsely populated. Seems like we are leaving Chicago, Missouri, Michigan etc in our wake!

To hear the national debate about police is funny when put in this context. I am guessing the majority of the victims are Mexican /Hispanic as well and this hasnt been mentioned once in the debate. Throw in tighter gun control laws than most states and its another eye opener.

On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Interesting read that, got a few friends in Bakersfield....they say some "interesting" things. Lets not forget the Okies discrimination (grapes of wrath) and Cesar Chavez activism in Kern County and you might get an idea of the prevailing attitude towards "the newcomers" in the area.

Although what struck me most about this article was the county's with the highest police homicide rate. 4 out of the 10 or so in Socal are in top 15 :o :o :o, and some of the others are very sparsely populated. Seems like we are leaving Chicago, Missouri, Michigan etc in our wake!

To hear the national debate about police is funny when put in this context. I am guessing the majority of the victims are Mexican /Hispanic as well and this hasnt been mentioned once in the debate. Throw in tighter gun control laws than most states and its another eye opener.

On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Close to the border you have tons of illegals.....did the article say 66,000 illegals out of a pop of 850,000.....and while I cant speak to S Cal, I know in Phoenix AZ, illegals create all kinds of problems.     Hence the rise of "celebrity tough on crime Sherrifs" like Sheriff Joe in Phoenix and this guy in CA
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:14:50 PM
Saying they cause "all sorts of problems" is overreaching. There are the normal gangbanging issues. The one unusual aspect is the kidnappings.In general, the impact to the social fabric of the Phoenix metro area is not big imo.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Santa Clara is close to San Jose.  I remember years ago coming out of the bar at closing time in San Jose and it was like entering a warzone.I had never seen anything like it.  There were cops everywhere. Generally speaking the bay area is safe as houses but (at least back then..mid 90's) certain areas still had a wild west feel to them.

 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 09:08:49 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2015, 07:47:10 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on December 01, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Grim but fascinating story of what appears to be a very trigger happy PD in California. Well worth the 10 mins or so.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/01/the-county-kern-county-deadliest-police-killings

Interesting read that, got a few friends in Bakersfield....they say some "interesting" things. Lets not forget the Okies discrimination (grapes of wrath) and Cesar Chavez activism in Kern County and you might get an idea of the prevailing attitude towards "the newcomers" in the area.

Although what struck me most about this article was the county's with the highest police homicide rate. 4 out of the 10 or so in Socal are in top 15 :o :o :o, and some of the others are very sparsely populated. Seems like we are leaving Chicago, Missouri, Michigan etc in our wake!

To hear the national debate about police is funny when put in this context. I am guessing the majority of the victims are Mexican /Hispanic as well and this hasnt been mentioned once in the debate. Throw in tighter gun control laws than most states and its another eye opener.

On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Close to the border you have tons of illegals.....did the article say 66,000 illegals out of a pop of 850,000.....and while I cant speak to S Cal, I know in Phoenix AZ, illegals create all kinds of problems.     Hence the rise of "celebrity tough on crime Sherrifs" like Sheriff Joe in Phoenix and this guy in CA

Like it or not there is a massive demand for the "illegals", the economy of Kern County (and indeed the rest of Socal) would take a massive dent if they were removed from it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Santa Clara is close to San Jose.  I remember years ago coming out of the bar at closing time in San Jose and it was like entering a warzone.I had never seen anything like it.  There were cops everywhere. Generally speaking the bay area is safe as houses but (at least back then..mid 90's) certain areas still had a wild west feel to them.



Yeah San Jose is in Santa Clara county. Its Silicone valley and Ive been around there a few times recently, massive amount of money there and comes across as boring and docile. Certainly didn't get the impression there is a crime problem that a stat like that would suggest.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 09:15:52 PM
Im sure 99% are law abiding but you only need a few to give everyone a bad name (Like Irish in Aus)

I was just out in Phoenix last week and my (very right wing) cousin just sold his house and moved up to Sedona full time. Speaking to him, it sounds like the whole city is gone to the dogs due to all the illegals. I would be interested to hear the opinion of someone a little bit more reasonable though
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:27:32 PM
I haven't lived there for a while but know the area fairly well. Since Phoenix is an acknowledged "white flight" area and snowbird central I would say that if your cousin thinks Phoenix has gone to the dogs then he must be very right wing indeed  :)   

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:53:41 PM
caveat: I didn't live in Phoenix itself and I understand the issues with gangbanging/kidnappings/cartels etc so If he lives in Phoenix proper then he is dead right to get out ! phoenix metro area is grand though.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:57:37 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Santa Clara is close to San Jose.  I remember years ago coming out of the bar at closing time in San Jose and it was like entering a warzone.I had never seen anything like it.  There were cops everywhere. Generally speaking the bay area is safe as houses but (at least back then..mid 90's) certain areas still had a wild west feel to them.



Yeah San Jose is in Santa Clara county. Its Silicone valley and Ive been around there a few times recently, massive amount of money there and comes across as boring and docile. Certainly didn't get the impression there is a crime problem that a stat like that would suggest.

Its fine and it was fine when I was there as well...but the US is like that. When the sun sets a whole new country emerges.   
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on December 01, 2015, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Yeah San Jose is in Santa Clara county. Its Silicone valley

;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 10:07:29 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:57:37 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 09:12:10 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Santa Clara is close to San Jose.  I remember years ago coming out of the bar at closing time in San Jose and it was like entering a warzone.I had never seen anything like it.  There were cops everywhere. Generally speaking the bay area is safe as houses but (at least back then..mid 90's) certain areas still had a wild west feel to them.



Yeah San Jose is in Santa Clara county. Its Silicone valley and Ive been around there a few times recently, massive amount of money there and comes across as boring and docile. Certainly didn't get the impression there is a crime problem that a stat like that would suggest.

Its fine and it was fine when I was there as well...but the US is like that. When the sun sets a whole new country emerges.
;D ;D
LOL I know wat you mean!

Im like Will Smith in that film I am Legend
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: imtommygunn on December 01, 2015, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on December 01, 2015, 07:25:57 PM
On a side note surprised to see Santa Clara county in there, maybe Eammon could shed some light on this?

Santa Clara is close to San Jose.  I remember years ago coming out of the bar at closing time in San Jose and it was like entering a warzone.I had never seen anything like it.  There were cops everywhere. Generally speaking the bay area is safe as houses but (at least back then..mid 90's) certain areas still had a wild west feel to them.



Dempsey used to be like that on the dublin road!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 10:31:28 PM
I was in Idaho when the OJ Simpson trial judgement came in. I have vague memories of being hammered drunk and saying "well lads maybe he really was innocent" just for the craic. Not sure how I survived that one  ;D 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:53:41 PM
caveat: I didn't live in Phoenix itself and I understand the issues with gangbanging/kidnappings/cartels etc so If he lives in Phoenix proper then he is dead right to get out ! phoenix metro area is grand though.

He lived in the city-zip 85021

I usually attend work conferences in Scottsdale and he would always come out and meet me there rather than me coming into see him
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 10:43:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on December 01, 2015, 10:34:31 PM
Quote from: periere on December 01, 2015, 09:53:41 PM
caveat: I didn't live in Phoenix itself and I understand the issues with gangbanging/kidnappings/cartels etc so If he lives in Phoenix proper then he is dead right to get out ! phoenix metro area is grand though.

He lived in the city-zip 85021

I usually attend work conferences in Scottsdale and he would always come out and meet me there rather than me coming into see him

Sounds southeast. That area is grand. .....for example Intel are based there. Lots of Irish connections.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on December 01, 2015, 11:15:57 PM
He worked his whole life at the Airport so that makes sense.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 01, 2015, 11:23:21 PM
That's tempe. Reasonably decent area. Downtown is great craic. Its primarily a university area... however it borders Phoenix so if he lived in the border area then I can see his point.

Anyway, Sedona is nice. Good luck to him.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: periere on December 02, 2015, 12:13:48 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 30, 2015, 04:21:28 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VmSkm8NrZ2k

It's a thankless job....I definitely wouldn't want to do it

The police did a great job there I thought. Very calm and professional. The idiots wanted to provoke a reaction and the cops were above that.

But you must realise there are many jobs that people have to confront whack-jobs from the general public on a regular basis. Go to A&E in any city on a Saturday night/Sunday morning in any city in Ireland and you will meet d**kheads like those in the video above. Go to certain football games in the UK or Europe. Tag along with the fire brigade in Dublin when they are called to one of the really bad areas.

Tough jobs, but they don't have these instant executions by rogue cops.

In fairness, I don't think those comparisons are fair. US cops, for better or worse, have to deal with all the ugly history of the US...race, gun laws etc. They  are the front line in a cultural war. I'm not sure any police force has had to deal with so many issues at one time.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on January 17, 2016, 12:17:26 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3369394/Moment-cop-shoots-dead-mother-three-toddler-son-misses-family-s-German-Shepherd-dog.html

here a policeman drew his gun when a dog growled at him, slipped on the ice and shot a woman dead.
This seems to be trigger happy, there were people around, including a toddler and the cop's life was in no sense in danger. If required, he should have belaboured the dog with his baton or pepper spray and not drawn the gun at all and any reasonable set of procedures should not allow discharging guns in a public place at a dog.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on January 21, 2016, 12:38:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on November 30, 2015, 01:44:55 AM
What happened in Chicago makes no sense at all. The guy was not an immediate threat and could have easily been immobilized by a taser or some other non lethal weapon. None of the other 10+ cops who were there saw the need to open fire. If I were to guess I'd say that maybe it was a case of roid rage, combined with booze and the cop had become completely volatile (pure speculation on my behalf.  The stress these guys are under is off the charts and I'd guess he just cracked

Violent neighborhoods are policed more aggressively than low crime neighborhoods....that's just a fact of life and it happens the world over.  Given the prevalence of firearms in the big US cities, what would normally be routine calls...traffic stops, noise complaints, domestic disputes, public intoxication.....take on a whole different dynamic VERY QUICKLY.  What may be a minor encounter in a low crime neighborhood, can very quickly escalate into an all bloodbath in a high crime neighborhood.

Case in point:   http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-playground-party-parade-35364110

In order for them to protect themselves and react quickly to very dangerous situations, their actions can seem heavy handed to the outside observer


Chicago is run by liberals, Obama hails from there, crime is rife, killings are off the charts and the cops are taking the brunt of the blame when in fact the blame, the majority of the blame lies within the black community, you know, the people who are actually doing the vast majority of the killing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on February 09, 2016, 02:48:31 PM
Jesus you couldn't make it up!! Cop who shoots and kills two people sues the kids parents for $10m for emotional distress??

The kid's holding a baseball bat why can't these useless fcukwits carry a tazer for non gun related confrontations??!! It would save lives!!!

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2016/02/why-the-officer-who-killed-quintonio-legrier-is-suing-him/460443/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.

Tell us what we are supposed to say about a young girl on her first day on the job being murdered by a fucked up soldier (apparently the son of a cop himself)?

"Tragic" is what comes to mind for me.

But go on... educate us.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.

And the Michael Brown coverage has WHAT exactly to do with what I post here?

As for the rest, please tell how exactly an armed man, who had already killed his wife, being shot by police could have been spun into another "police kill unarmed black man" case?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 05:07:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.

And the Michael Brown coverage has WHAT exactly to do with what I post here?

As for the rest, please tell how exactly an armed man, who had already killed his wife, being shot by police could have been spun into another "police kill unarmed black man" case?

Depends how CNN and MSNBC want to spin it. They do it quite well to rile the masses.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on February 29, 2016, 05:25:39 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 05:07:44 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.

And the Michael Brown coverage has WHAT exactly to do with what I post here?

As for the rest, please tell how exactly an armed man, who had already killed his wife, being shot by police could have been spun into another "police kill unarmed black man" case?

Depends how CNN and MSNBC want to spin it. They do it quite well to rile the masses.

Well given that armed black people are shot by the cops every day, what are they waiting for?

I've seen quite a few news stories about this case, even on local NYC news, and, without exception, they talked about the tweet and photo of the police woman being sworn in, told to stay safe, and then dying the following day.

You are the only one who is trying to put a political spin on what appears to be an open and shut case of a young rookie cop being murdered (and two colleagues shot) by a disturbed, dangerous, armed man who had just murdered his wife after she'd called the cops for help.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on February 29, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
To anyone with an ounce of intelligence, the death of a police officer who was killed while on duty, is a tragedy and a very serious crime.

Equally to anyone with an ounce of intelligence a police officer overreacting and shooting dead an unarmed person is also a tragedy and, depending on the circumstance, may also be a crime.

To insist that you must be for one or the other event above it's patently stupid, yet this is the argument made by many in the US and a handful on here. This is anti-intellectualism at its worst and most divisive. But despite it showing the person making the argument in a very dim light, they still make it. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.

Awful news about this young woman, I hope Eamonnica has plenty to say on the subject.

Al was too busy f**king around leading a gaggle of idiots who were upset because no black millionaire was picked for best actor/actress, Jada Pickett Smith threw a hussy fit because her hubby willy did not get the nod to compete for the Oscar, these entitled liberal arsewipes are so arrogant it is staggsubject.Sharpton and Jackson are two haters, they cherry pick their causes, where were they when the child in Chicago got killed or when the coos got killed a month ago, they were nowhere, media whores both.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

That is four words more than 99.99% of the members of this board bothered to post.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: jimmyd41 on February 29, 2016, 10:03:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on February 29, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
To anyone with an ounce of intelligence, the death of a police officer who was killed while on duty, is a tragedy and a very serious crime.

Equally to anyone with an ounce of intelligence a police officer overreacting and shooting dead an unarmed person is also a tragedy and, depending on the circumstance, may also be a crime.

To insist that you must be for one or the other event above it's patently stupid, yet this is the argument made by many in the US and a handful on here. This is anti-intellectualism at its worst and most divisive. But despite it showing the person making the argument in a very dim light, they still make it. The mind boggles.

Fine sentiments however I think the point is proportionality.

Lets be clear. A police officer shooting an unarmed citizen SHOULD receive more attention than the shooting of an officer however the complete lack of proportionality between two such incidents is what grates. There is no doubt that extremely powerful forces are driving the coverage of one over the other.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on March 01, 2016, 02:37:21 AM
Of course it's a horrible situation nobody is saying it isn't. How can we remedy such a problem?? Well improve treatment of mental health and stop guns would be two ways... But you lads aren't too interested in those types of ideas.

The reason why an unarmed black guy getting shot by police gets more attention than this is because it's not supposed to happen. Police aren't supposed to shoot unarmed citizens. How anyone can try and equate the to situations is beyond me!

What's more worrying is the fact that you right wing lunatics are more interested in getting other people's opinions on the matter than actually talking about how such situations could be avoided. It's a shame that the right have butchered the US political system to such an extent that many find it more beneficial to exploit situations to suit their own political agenda rather than talk or seek actions as to how we can prevent these things from happening in the first place!!

But sure go and call out another poster for not saying enough about it that will solve everything!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2016, 02:56:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 29, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
To anyone with an ounce of intelligence, the death of a police officer who was killed while on duty, is a tragedy and a very serious crime.

Equally to anyone with an ounce of intelligence a police officer overreacting and shooting dead an unarmed person is also a tragedy and, depending on the circumstance, may also be a crime.

To insist that you must be for one or the other event above it's patently stupid, yet this is the argument made by many in the US and a handful on here. This is anti-intellectualism at its worst and most divisive. But despite it showing the person making the argument in a very dim light, they still make it. The mind boggles.

Nuance doesn't work with a certain political mindset. It's the "you're either for or against us" thing. If you want police held accountable for mistakes or misconduct, that means you must hate the police. If you accept that the police policies and conduct have played their part in fostering hostility and suspicion among the black community over the decades, then you must hate the police. If you accept that society in general has an uneasy relationship, to say the least, with black males, and that this may thus be brought to bear in police/black male interactions, then you hate the police. If you sympathize with black people who talk about having "the talk" with their growing sons, you must hate the police.

In reality, of course, most sensible people realise that, as with any profession, there are good and bad cops. There are good and bad leaders making police policy. And these cops have a tremendously tough job in a lot of these neighbourhoods, where the long existing suspicion makes their work amidst social deprivation and broken families even harder, with the "snitches end up in ditches" gang atmosphere compounding the problems (a friend of mine is an ex-cop, and has spoken about people in housing projects approaching him on the quiet, thanking him for his work, but making sure no one saw them talking to him). And, of course, a lot of times a cop has a fraction of a second in which to make a decision when confronted with a potentially dangerous situation. Its not a split-second decision I would personally like to have to make.

But that does not mean that the misconduct and criminal cases should not be prosecuted, and training of police improved (the Asian cop in Brooklyn recently, while I feel a bit sorry for him, WTF was he doing that he ended up discharging his gun blindly into a dark stairwell?). And while some may resent Black Lives Matter and the attention some of these killings have gotten lately partly due to mobile phone videos, one does have to wonder how many were swept under the carpet in the years and decades gone by and the role that those played in current relations? Its fifty years since the Black Panthers rose in response to police brutality in Oakland after all.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: heganboy on March 01, 2016, 04:39:08 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Would you not expect to hear from the US army? Or is that a melanin level comment, again...
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 01, 2016, 06:10:02 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 01, 2016, 02:56:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on February 29, 2016, 09:39:14 PM
To anyone with an ounce of intelligence, the death of a police officer who was killed while on duty, is a tragedy and a very serious crime.

Equally to anyone with an ounce of intelligence a police officer overreacting and shooting dead an unarmed person is also a tragedy and, depending on the circumstance, may also be a crime.

To insist that you must be for one or the other event above it's patently stupid, yet this is the argument made by many in the US and a handful on here. This is anti-intellectualism at its worst and most divisive. But despite it showing the person making the argument in a very dim light, they still make it. The mind boggles.

Nuance doesn't work with a certain political mindset. It's the "you're either for or against us" thing. If you want police held accountable for mistakes or misconduct, that means you must hate the police. If you accept that the police policies and conduct have played their part in fostering hostility and suspicion among the black community over the decades, then you must hate the police. If you accept that society in general has an uneasy relationship, to say the least, with black males, and that this may thus be brought to bear in police/black male interactions, then you hate the police. If you sympathize with black people who talk about having "the talk" with their growing sons, you must hate the police.

In reality, of course, most sensible people realise that, as with any profession, there are good and bad cops. There are good and bad leaders making police policy. And these cops have a tremendously tough job in a lot of these neighbourhoods, where the long existing suspicion makes their work amidst social deprivation and broken families even harder, with the "snitches end up in ditches" gang atmosphere compounding the problems (a friend of mine is an ex-cop, and has spoken about people in housing projects approaching him on the quiet, thanking him for his work, but making sure no one saw them talking to him). And, of course, a lot of times a cop has a fraction of a second in which to make a decision when confronted with a potentially dangerous situation. Its not a split-second decision I would personally like to have to make.

But that does not mean that the misconduct and criminal cases should not be prosecuted, and training of police improved (the Asian cop in Brooklyn recently, while I feel a bit sorry for him, WTF was he doing that he ended up discharging his gun blindly into a dark stairwell?). And while some may resent Black Lives Matter and the attention some of these killings have gotten lately partly due to mobile phone videos, one does have to wonder how many were swept under the carpet in the years and decades gone by and the role that those played in current relations? Its fifty years since the Black Panthers rose in response to police brutality in Oakland after all.

Pretty much. Conservatives don't do nuance. Always with them it's all or nothing. No room for shades of grey between hating the cops and worshipping at the porcine altar.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Kickham csc on March 01, 2016, 11:16:44 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 01, 2016, 02:37:21 AM
Of course it's a horrible situation nobody is saying it isn't. How can we remedy such a problem?? Well improve treatment of mental health and stop guns would be two ways... But you lads aren't too interested in those types of ideas.

The reason why an unarmed black guy getting shot by police gets more attention than this is because it's not supposed to happen. Police aren't supposed to shoot unarmed citizens. How anyone can try and equate the to situations is beyond me!

What's more worrying is the fact that you right wing lunatics are more interested in getting other people's opinions on the matter than actually talking about how such situations could be avoided. It's a shame that the right have butchered the US political system to such an extent that many find it more beneficial to exploit situations to suit their own political agenda rather than talk or seek actions as to how we can prevent these things from happening in the first place!!

But sure go and call out another poster for not saying enough about it that will solve everything!!

You got it half right. Both the left and right exploit these issues without a real effort to address the root cause.The left don't really come up with solutions, and their political strategy is to exploit these issues to maximize the black votes.

For example, poor education performance in poor areas seems to be a major causal issue, yet time and time again, Democrats support the status quo in support of teacher unions, instead of other strategies that might improve the issue (De Blasio NYC).

Speaking of De Blasio, after Eric Garner died, he stated in a press conference that it was a disgrace that a man should die over selling loose ciggies (a trivial crime), and blamed the NYPD on pursuing the sellers of loose ciggies. He never mentioned that the prosecution of loose ciggie sellers was a top priority to the NYC and NY state due to significant income tax loss, and instructed the NYPD to come up with a strategy to ensure prosecutions .

One year on and the prosecution of selling of loose ciggies is still a high priority for NYC, and the NYPD are still aggressively pursuing sellers. What's changed. Nothing.

On the right, there is a fear game being played, but a refusal to do anything about gun control.

Both sides are just playing the game
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on March 01, 2016, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: Kickham csc on March 01, 2016, 11:16:44 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 01, 2016, 02:37:21 AM
Of course it's a horrible situation nobody is saying it isn't. How can we remedy such a problem?? Well improve treatment of mental health and stop guns would be two ways... But you lads aren't too interested in those types of ideas.

The reason why an unarmed black guy getting shot by police gets more attention than this is because it's not supposed to happen. Police aren't supposed to shoot unarmed citizens. How anyone can try and equate the to situations is beyond me!

What's more worrying is the fact that you right wing lunatics are more interested in getting other people's opinions on the matter than actually talking about how such situations could be avoided. It's a shame that the right have butchered the US political system to such an extent that many find it more beneficial to exploit situations to suit their own political agenda rather than talk or seek actions as to how we can prevent these things from happening in the first place!!

But sure go and call out another poster for not saying enough about it that will solve everything!!

You got it half right. Both the left and right exploit these issues without a real effort to address the root cause.The left don't really come up with solutions, and their political strategy is to exploit these issues to maximize the black votes.

For example, poor education performance in poor areas seems to be a major causal issue, yet time and time again, Democrats support the status quo in support of teacher unions, instead of other strategies that might improve the issue (De Blasio NYC).

Speaking of De Blasio, after Eric Garner died, he stated in a press conference that it was a disgrace that a man should die over selling loose ciggies (a trivial crime), and blamed the NYPD on pursuing the sellers of loose ciggies. He never mentioned that the prosecution of loose ciggie sellers was a top priority to the NYC and NY state due to significant income tax loss, and instructed the NYPD to come up with a strategy to ensure prosecutions .

One year on and the prosecution of selling of loose ciggies is still a high priority for NYC, and the NYPD are still aggressively pursuing sellers. What's changed. Nothing.

On the right, there is a fear game being played, but a refusal to do anything about gun control.

Both sides are just playing the game

You can focus on smuggling without using lethal, illegal tactics to apprehend the resultant street level petty criminal.

But yes, politicians will usually try to exploit or cover their arse.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on March 01, 2016, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.



4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.


It was 4 more words of empathy and commiseration than you managed u arsewipe.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2016, 01:00:04 AM
Quote from: stew on February 29, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 29, 2016, 01:41:37 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.

4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.

Of course, as usual, you have absolutely nothing to support that statement.



Yes I do - the likes of Michael Brown got massive coverage.

If the shooter was the one who got shot I'm sure there would have been a different narrative.
Certain movements would have been non-stop on all media outlets.
The hashtag crew would have been out in force as well as Al and Jesse. Go on - say it ain't so.

Awful news about this young woman, I hope Eamonnica has plenty to say on the subject.

Al was too busy f**king around leading a gaggle of idiots who were upset because no black millionaire was picked for best actor/actress, Jada Pickett Smith threw a hussy fit because her hubby willy did not get the nod to compete for the Oscar, these entitled liberal arsewipes are so arrogant it is staggsubject.Sharpton and Jackson are two haters, they cherry pick their causes, where were they when the child in Chicago got killed or when the coos got killed a month ago, they were nowhere, media whores both.

Of course they cherrypick their incidents. The media only really report on stories when there is a certain slant.
Poor Jada. If you're a shit actor just cause a stink and claim it's racism.
They did the same with the Rooney rule in the NFL. Make allowances for someone not being good enough.

I see that CNN have gone into overdrive calling Trump all sorts of names and basically saying he's clan supporter.
nice.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on March 02, 2016, 01:02:15 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 01, 2016, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.



4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.


It was 4 more words of empathy and commiseration than you managed u arsewipe.

I was the one who posted it u dickweed. The likes of you only think it's "tragic" but get outraged when some drug dealer gets plugged and support the lootings and riotings that follow.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on March 02, 2016, 01:20:31 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2016, 01:02:15 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 01, 2016, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.



4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.


It was 4 more words of empathy and commiseration than you managed u arsewipe.

I was the one who posted it u dickweed. The likes of you only think it's "tragic" but get outraged when some drug dealer gets plugged and support the lootings and riotings that follow.

I'm the first one who responded that it was "tragic", which you apparently find unsatisfactory.

So I ask, once again, for the second time, how should I have responded?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on March 02, 2016, 03:34:23 AM
Quote from: J70 on March 02, 2016, 01:20:31 AM
I'm the first one who responded that it was "tragic", which you apparently find unsatisfactory.

So I ask, once again, for the second time, how should I have responded?

Sack cloth and ashes.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Keyser soze on March 02, 2016, 09:58:49 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on March 02, 2016, 01:02:15 AM
Quote from: Keyser soze on March 01, 2016, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 29, 2016, 01:16:29 AM
Quote from: J70 on February 28, 2016, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on February 28, 2016, 06:02:37 PM
First day on the job as well. No comment from Al or Jesse as yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/rookie-killed-day-job-virginia-shooting-article-1.2546227

Very tragic. Poor girl.



4 words from you on the subject. Is that it?
You'd have more to say if it was a drug dealer shot by a cop. We'd be hearing the #'s bleating away.


It was 4 more words of empathy and commiseration than you managed u arsewipe.

I was the one who posted it u dickweed. The likes of you only think it's "tragic" but get outraged when some drug dealer gets plugged and support the lootings and riotings that follow.

I know you posted it.. Without a single word of commiseration or sorrow. You are happy to use this young lady's death to score points on a discussion board when you quite obviously could not give a shit avbout the human tragedy that was her death. A disgusting thing to do, but clearly a defensible position for you.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 14, 2016, 09:42:51 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36041990 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36041990)

Chicago police plagued by racism, says official report

A task force, set up after a public outcry over police shootings, said some officers had "no regard for the sanctity of life when it comes to people of colour".
It said the department had alienated blacks and Hispanics by using excessive force and honouring a code of silence.
The report asks for more than 100 sweeping changes.
The panel found that 74% of the hundreds of people shot by officers in recent years were African-Americans even though blacks account for only 33% of the city's population.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 09:52:25 AM
Stats like that, taken out of context, are misleading though. What is the percentage of crime committed by blacks? In other words what percentage of the criminal population are black. In areas like Chicago, the proportion is quite high, due to the ghettoisation of large American Cities.

I'm not defending racist police, they are a scourge and a cancer, hence the Black Lives Matter campaigns, but the likelihood of being shot by police goes up if you are involved in criminal behaviour, and if, in that city, a lot of criminal activity is perpetuated by minorities, then saying something like 74% of those shot by police are black, even though they only make up 33% of the population, is deliberately slanted.

This part of the story is almost added as a footnote

"Figures released last month showed Chicago's murder rate had risen 84% in the first months of 2016 compared with last year.
The city saw 575 shootings and 125 murders up to 20 March compared to 290 shootings and 68 murders in the same period of 2015."

I wonder what the demographics on those shootings are?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 14, 2016, 10:32:53 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 09:52:25 AM
Stats like that, taken out of context, are misleading though. What is the percentage of crime committed by blacks? In other words what percentage of the criminal population are black. In areas like Chicago, the proportion is quite high, due to the ghettoisation of large American Cities.

I'm not defending racist police, they are a scourge and a cancer, hence the Black Lives Matter campaigns, but the likelihood of being shot by police goes up if you are involved in criminal behaviour, and if, in that city, a lot of criminal activity is perpetuated by minorities, then saying something like 74% of those shot by police are black, even though they only make up 33% of the population, is deliberately slanted.

This part of the story is almost added as a footnote

"Figures released last month showed Chicago's murder rate had risen 84% in the first months of 2016 compared with last year.
The city saw 575 shootings and 125 murders up to 20 March compared to 290 shootings and 68 murders in the same period of 2015."

I wonder what the demographics on those shootings are?

That findings are more important than cold stats. The findings of 'excessive force' and 'code of silence' is particularly damning. If you are going to shoot criminals, fine by me, just make sure you don't only shoot the black ones.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 10:44:37 AM
Absolutely, I'm glad this report was issued, and I'm glad they've found stuff that needs to change.

As regards don't only shoot the black ones, this is where the stats come in. Let's say 75% of violent crime is committed by black criminals. Would the shooting figures then be ok? I'm not saying I defend any p***k of a racist police officer, but I'm saying the stat is meaningless without context.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 14, 2016, 10:52:35 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 10:44:37 AM
Absolutely, I'm glad this report was issued, and I'm glad they've found stuff that needs to change.

As regards don't only shoot the black ones, this is where the stats come in. Let's say 75% of violent crime is committed by black criminals. Would the shooting figures then be ok? I'm not saying I defend any p***k of a racist police officer, but I'm saying the stat is meaningless without context.

But that is simply more cold stats. If you find that officers are racist (this can apply to a black cop shooting a white man) in their decision making when it comes to pulling the trigger, then there is still a problem. I have no problem with a cop shooting a violent criminal, but that has to be the reason, not his skin colour.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 11:02:39 AM
Jaysus, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying the only issue I have with that report is that it throws out a stat like that without any context. As you said, the meat of the report is the same, but that stat makes it sound as if there's equal percentages of criminal behaviour, and the cops are only shooting the black ones. Without 'cold stats' to contextualise those percentages, the figures quoted are valueless.

I support the official report, I just don't like the media trying to gild the lily.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on April 14, 2016, 11:56:40 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 11:02:39 AM
Jaysus, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying the only issue I have with that report is that it throws out a stat like that without any context. As you said, the meat of the report is the same, but that stat makes it sound as if there's equal percentages of criminal behaviour, and the cops are only shooting the black ones. Without 'cold stats' to contextualise those percentages, the figures quoted are valueless.

I support the official report, I just don't like the media trying to gild the lily.

I agree that the media have a lot to answer for in these cases. The US media is even worse than our own.

I don't know if the full report itself is publicly available, but the Executive Summary makes for very interesting reading: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2801130/Chicago-Police-Accountability-Task-Force-Report.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2801130/Chicago-Police-Accountability-Task-Force-Report.pdf)

It goes through the facts of the Laquan McDonald shooting and shows up the CPD in a very bad light. IMHO that is what the media should be focussing on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 11, 2016, 02:07:39 AM
More of that "protect and serve" stuff going around. Innocent kid gets pulled over and tazed into a coma because his license plate was mistakenly identified, ends up with permanent brain damage. The cowardly pig that did this wouldn't be so brave in a boxing ring, methinks:

https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1080103675413089/?pnref=story (https://www.facebook.com/NowThisNews/videos/1080103675413089/?pnref=story)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on July 12, 2016, 02:43:23 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 14, 2016, 09:52:25 AM
Stats like that, taken out of context, are misleading though. What is the percentage of crime committed by blacks? In other words what percentage of the criminal population are black. In areas like Chicago, the proportion is quite high, due to the ghettoisation of large American Cities.

I'm not defending racist police, they are a scourge and a cancer, hence the Black Lives Matter campaigns, but the likelihood of being shot by police goes up if you are involved in criminal behaviour, and if, in that city, a lot of criminal activity is perpetuated by minorities, then saying something like 74% of those shot by police are black, even though they only make up 33% of the population, is deliberately slanted.

This part of the story is almost added as a footnote

"Figures released last month showed Chicago's murder rate had risen 84% in the first months of 2016 compared with last year.
The city saw 575 shootings and 125 murders up to 20 March compared to 290 shootings and 68 murders in the same period of 2015."

I wonder what the demographics on those shootings are?

The only site you need for Chicago crime

http://heyjackass.com/

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on July 12, 2016, 03:40:14 AM
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/07/08/after-dallas-police-shooting-violence-begets-violence/
After Dallas

David Cole   


The images that saturated social media over the last few days all should have borne warnings of their graphic content. The first depicted a police officer in Louisiana repeatedly shooting Alton Sterling, a thirty-seven-year-old black man, at point-blank range while he was pinned to the ground. That was Tuesday. The next day, an extraordinary ten-minute video showed Philandro Castile, a thirty-two-year-old black resident of Minnesota, bleeding to death in the front seat of his car after being shot by an officer in a Minneapolis suburb, again at point-blank range, during what should have been a routine stop for a burned-out taillight. In the video, Castile's girlfriend and her four-year-old daughter look on, helpless, as the police do nothing to aid Castile. The third video, from Thursday night, showed police officers and a crowd of peaceful protesters in Dallas running for cover from a sniper who shot twelve police officers and two civilians, killing five of the officers, in a mass shooting inspired by police abuse. 

"Violence begets violence," Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., warned, echoing the Biblical injunction that those who live by the sword die by the sword. Rarely has the adage been more sadly apt. According to Dallas police chief David Brown, the Dallas gunman, Micah Xavier Johnson, said he was angered by the police shootings and wanted to kill "white people, especially white officers."

There was no link between those peacefully protesting the week's police shootings in Dallas and Mr. Johnson's hate crime, nor, of course, between the officers who shot Mr. Sterling and Mr. Castile and those who died serving as peace officers. But the connections between the three shootings nonetheless have deep roots in the American soil. As a culture we have too often chosen to address our problems with violence, even as we continue to make guns widely available so that citizens can do the same. We reflexively resort to force to address foreign policy challenges, whether in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Pakistan, Nicaragua, El Salvador, or Grenada. We spend more on our military budget than the next seven largest militaries in the world combined. And we declare endless "wars" on crime, drugs, terror, or the latest disease.

Our Constitution was predicated on socially sanctioned violence, in particular the force that was necessary to relegate about 500,000 of our fellow countrymen and women to slavery. It took a civil war to eradicate that sin. An entrenched system of state and private terror enforced Jim Crow segregation for decades thereafter.

The founding commitment to force is also reflected in the Second Amendment—whether it is viewed as preserving a prerogative of states to field militias or, as the Supreme Court has declared, an individual right to bear arms. As I wrote recently in The New York Review, Americans own about 300 million guns, or 88 for every 100 people, more guns per capita than any other nation. Each year, more than 30,000 Americans die by gunfire. Our gun murder rate is about thirty times that of the United Kingdom, which has strict gun laws, and where the vast majority of the police do not carry firearms. So far this year, according to The Washington Post, more than five hundred people have been killed in police shootings. Both of the men shot by police this week were carrying guns.

But in this instance, it is the "war" on crime itself that is most to blame. More than any other nation in the world, we turn to the state-sanctioned compulsion of the criminal justice system to "solve" social problems, including mental illness, drug addiction, poverty, homelessness, and lack of opportunity. Our "first responders" are too often the police, bearing handcuffs and guns rather than public assistance or life support. We arrest and incarcerate our fellow citizens at the highest per capita rate in the world. And those targeted are disproportionately black and Hispanic men living in poverty-stricken inner-city neighborhoods. We can't seem to find the resources to invest in those neighborhoods to support adequate schools, job training programs, after-care for children let out of school before their parents come home, or economic development. But we are more than willing to pay enormous sums for more police to patrol the neighborhoods and prisons to house inmates taken from these communities. Our prisons in turn are ruled by violence and the threat thereof, from both guards and fellow inmates.

This state violence breeds private violence. As black and Hispanic citizens lose their trust in the fairness of the criminal justice system, the system breaks down. Yale Law School professor Tom Tyler has shown that a healthy society relies heavily on the perceived legitimacy of its laws for compliance and enforcement. When citizens lose faith in the legitimacy of the system, they are less invested in adhering to its dictates and cooperating in its enforcement. That, in turn, too often leads the police, denied the soft power of legitimacy, to resort to violence. And as Jill Leovy powerfully demonstrated in Ghettoside, once the law loses legitimacy in a region, gangs also step in.

We have seen violence erupt in response to police abuse before. In the 1960s, police encounters sparked uprisings in cities across the country, laying waste to what few resources those living in the inner city had. After the 1992 acquittal of the police officers who beat Rodney King in Los Angeles, similar unrest broke out there. This time, though, the protests have been overwhelmingly peaceful, even as the acts they are protesting are anything but. And Mr. Johnson's sniper attack bears more resemblance to the Orlando and San Bernardino mass shootings than to the spontaneous community uprisings of the past.

There are important differences, to be sure, between military invasions, drone strikes, police shootings, gang executions, violent popular uprisings, terrorist acts, and sniper attacks. But what all of these incidents share is the precipitous, unjustified, and ultimately corrosive resort to violence. If we are to escape the cycle of retribution, we need to follow Dr. King's lead and pursue a path of nonviolence. This is true not only of the protesters, to whom King's remarks were addressed, but, even more critically, of the government—and of all of us. As Americans we have been far too complacent in the face of state-sanctioned violence. As long as the guns are pointed at others, we turn our heads and look away. But until we begin to demand alternatives to state violence, the killing will not cease.

July 8, 2016, 11:27 pm 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

'The Da?'

I take it this is a joke.

FoxNews, that most balanced of institutions, is blaming the Prosecutor for 'overcharging' the Police Officers.

That despite the Coroner ruling that it was a homicide. And a Grand Jury ruling that they should stand trial. Oh and 3 of the 5 face retrials, so this isn't over by any means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

'The Da?'

I take it this is a joke.

FoxNews, that most balanced of institutions, is blaming the Prosecutor for 'overcharging' the Police Officers.

That despite the Coroner ruling that it was a homicide. And a Grand Jury ruling that they should stand trial. Oh and 3 of the 5 face retrials, so this isn't over by any means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray)
of course the da is al fool she gave the mob what they wanted and ended up with nothing .
What did the coroner say was the murder weapon the side of the van?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 18, 2016, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

'The Da?'

I take it this is a joke.

FoxNews, that most balanced of institutions, is blaming the Prosecutor for 'overcharging' the Police Officers.

That despite the Coroner ruling that it was a homicide. And a Grand Jury ruling that they should stand trial. Oh and 3 of the 5 face retrials, so this isn't over by any means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray)
of course the da is al fool she gave the mob what they wanted and ended up with nothing .
What did the coroner say was the murder weapon the side of the van?

Oh I see, 'the Da' is the District Attorney. Hence 'she'. And again, 3 of the officers are up for retrial. You say 'ended up with nothing' and yet lecture everyone with 'this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements'.

And the second question, is another little joke I take it. Of course it just isn't possible that a van could be used to kill anyone is it? How could that possibly happen?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on July 19, 2016, 02:27:04 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

'The Da?'

I take it this is a joke.

FoxNews, that most balanced of institutions, is blaming the Prosecutor for 'overcharging' the Police Officers.

That despite the Coroner ruling that it was a homicide. And a Grand Jury ruling that they should stand trial. Oh and 3 of the 5 face retrials, so this isn't over by any means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray)
of course the da is al fool she gave the mob what they wanted and ended up with nothing .
What did the coroner say was the murder weapon the side of the van?

Oh I see, 'the Da' is the District Attorney. Hence 'she'. And again, 3 of the officers are up for retrial. You say 'ended up with nothing' and yet lecture everyone with 'this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements'.

And the second question, is another little joke I take it. Of course it just isn't possible that a van could be used to kill anyone is it? How could that possibly happen?
if they get convicted I won't have any problem with that I wont go out and start a riot .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on July 19, 2016, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

So Freddie Gray was not in fact fatally and brutally injured in that police van?

Or the DA just couldn't prove guilt on the part of the individual cops beyond a reasonable doubt?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on July 19, 2016, 03:19:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2016, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

So Freddie Gray was not in fact fatally and brutally injured in that police van?

Or the DA just couldn't prove guilt on the part of the individual cops beyond a reasonable doubt?
i don't know he liooked like he was paralyzed before he was put in van to me
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on July 19, 2016, 03:19:49 AM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 10:57:26 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 10:27:20 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 18, 2016, 09:59:47 PM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

'The Da?'

I take it this is a joke.

FoxNews, that most balanced of institutions, is blaming the Prosecutor for 'overcharging' the Police Officers.

That despite the Coroner ruling that it was a homicide. And a Grand Jury ruling that they should stand trial. Oh and 3 of the 5 face retrials, so this isn't over by any means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray)
of course the da is al fool she gave the mob what they wanted and ended up with nothing .
What did the coroner say was the murder weapon the side of the van?

Oh I see, 'the Da' is the District Attorney. Hence 'she'. And again, 3 of the officers are up for retrial. You say 'ended up with nothing' and yet lecture everyone with 'this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements'.

And the second question, is another little joke I take it. Of course it just isn't possible that a van could be used to kill anyone is it? How could that possibly happen?

Once a case has been tried, its very, very hard to get a conviction on a retrial.  That's why the DA should always go for the charges they think can stick as opposed to the ones public opinion demand. 

Pretty much the same thing happened with Trayvon Martin if I recall correctly....if the DA had gone for lesser charges Zimmerman would almost certainly have been convicted (and the lesser charges held an almost identical penalty to what he was eventually charged with)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on July 19, 2016, 11:43:53 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 19, 2016, 03:19:14 AM
Quote from: J70 on July 19, 2016, 02:52:54 AM
Quote from: Gmac on July 18, 2016, 09:38:02 PM
Four officers invoved in the Freddie gray case have all been acquired no convictions on any of the charges , so a city was looted and burned by rioters as the mayor told officers to stand down the district attorney guaranteed convictions and judge involved is an African American , so who takes the fall here the mayor? The da?  I doubt it , this is why sometimes u have to wait to see everything before we make judgements

So Freddie Gray was not in fact fatally and brutally injured in that police van?

Or the DA just couldn't prove guilt on the part of the individual cops beyond a reasonable doubt?
i don't know he liooked like he was paralyzed before he was put in van to me

Assuming, for the sake of argument, that what you say is true, I'm trying to figure out how that makes it better for the police - that he suffered the injuries during the arrest, and not when thrown loose into the back of the van?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2016, 12:13:56 PM
The police are losing their authority. The vet PTSD issue is out of control. The US is a serious clusterfuck. 35 years of listening to the Kochs will do that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:28:20 PM
I think some of those attacking people might do some research first.

The charges included, for example, 'reckless endangerment' and 'misconduct'. The media often references the highest charge only. Especially Fox News. It help with the auld outrage.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2016, 08:55:18 PM

http://www.secondclasscitizen.org/
Second Class Citizen combed through three years of active duty military suicide records from DOD and discovered that one third of active duty military suicides are due to family/custody matters. SM and Veterans are literally killing themselves in despair.

Some vets are killing cops.

This is where the clusterfuck started

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKdbZWNqF00
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on July 19, 2016, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:28:20 PM
I think some of those attacking people might do some research first.

The charges included, for example, 'reckless endangerment' and 'misconduct'. The media often references the highest charge only. Especially Fox News. It help with the auld outrage.
The US is so polarised
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on July 19, 2016, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.

Better not let his stepdad on the platform or he'll be shouting "burn this bitch down" again - Hillary might get nervous!

Hopefully she will use the time on stage to tell people to obey the law. Her son would have been alive if he had done so.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on July 20, 2016, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump

They HAVE invited other relatives. Brown's mother is only one of the speakers.

But, you have a valid point, although I don't think it will make any difference in terms of votes. Depends on what she has to say, I guess.

It is safe to say that her words will be a lot more closely vetted by the campaign than Melania Trump's were, though! ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump

Yes, Trump would never use a dead man's mother for 'tasteless political manoeuvring'.

Almost every single police official is found innocent in these shootings of unarmed black men. As I keep saying, each individual case is not a representative sample, but the overall statistics showing the instant execution of unarmed black men by police is truly shocking.

I have no doubt that the armed Wilson was terrified, and that he shot at the unarmed man out of fear. In any other civilised country, being an unarmed dickhead on the street does not result in instant execution by the police.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 04:38:55 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249414/Dashcam-footage-shows-horrifying-moment-cops-draw-guns-husband-PREGNANT-wife-pulling-rush-hospital-birth-talk-deleting-video.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3249414/Dashcam-footage-shows-horrifying-moment-cops-draw-guns-husband-PREGNANT-wife-pulling-rush-hospital-birth-talk-deleting-video.html)

The courts found in favour of the couple, that their constitutional rights had been denied, but yet again the cops involved faced no action.

What the hell is wrong with these people?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 06:02:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump

Yes, Trump would never use a dead man's mother for 'tasteless political manoeuvring'.

Almost every single police official is found innocent in these shootings of unarmed black men. As I keep saying, each individual case is not a representative sample, but the overall statistics showing the instant execution of unarmed black men by police is truly shocking.

I have no doubt that the armed Wilson was terrified, and that he shot at the unarmed man out of fear. In any other civilised country, being an unarmed d**khead on the street does not result in instant execution by the police.

I think your missing my point. I'm not concerned with the 'tasteless political maneuvering', if the democrats (which I am one) want to highlight the issue and get a speaker in then they should do it.

"Wilson was terrified, and that he shot at the unarmed man out of fear", this is the issue, as this is probably the only case that was highlighted in the last two years where the cop could have felt fear, as Brown fought for his gun. Surely any of the other cases where the cop wasn't attacked would be better.

Lastly, being an unarmed d**khead on the street does not result in instant execution by the police. But the republicans will counter that the unarmed d**khead just committed a felony and attacked a police officer, tried to steal his gun and pulled the trigger.

This could backfire badly, especially in the current context of the police being shot. The Democrats could alienate a large segment of reasonable population that would have sympathy with the issue
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on July 20, 2016, 07:47:47 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 06:02:19 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 20, 2016, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump

Yes, Trump would never use a dead man's mother for 'tasteless political manoeuvring'.

Almost every single police official is found innocent in these shootings of unarmed black men. As I keep saying, each individual case is not a representative sample, but the overall statistics showing the instant execution of unarmed black men by police is truly shocking.

I have no doubt that the armed Wilson was terrified, and that he shot at the unarmed man out of fear. In any other civilised country, being an unarmed d**khead on the street does not result in instant execution by the police.

I think your missing my point. I'm not concerned with the 'tasteless political maneuvering', if the democrats (which I am one) want to highlight the issue and get a speaker in then they should do it.

"Wilson was terrified, and that he shot at the unarmed man out of fear", this is the issue, as this is probably the only case that was highlighted in the last two years where the cop could have felt fear, as Brown fought for his gun. Surely any of the other cases where the cop wasn't attacked would be better.

Lastly, being an unarmed d**khead on the street does not result in instant execution by the police. But the republicans will counter that the unarmed d**khead just committed a felony and attacked a police officer, tried to steal his gun and pulled the trigger.

This could backfire badly, especially in the current context of the police being shot. The Democrats could alienate a large segment of reasonable population that would have sympathy with the issue

You are stretching things with 'pulled the trigger'. 'Tried to steal his gun' is also subjective. The cop was pointing the gun at him at the time. What we know is that there was a struggle over the gun.

But I think you are missing the point. I don't have much sympathy for a felon, but cops can't simply execute them on the street. Wilson fired 12 bullets in total. Some were reactionary. By the time you get to bullets 7, 8, 9 etc. it isn't reactionary. The last bullet entered the top of the head and was the fatal shot. This was while he was attacking the cop again. With about 6 bullets in him.

Are any of these cops capable of doing what the Irish and UK police do as a matter of routine, and arrest criminals while being unarmed themselves?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Declan on July 21, 2016, 02:54:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/miami-police-shooting-hands-up_us_57903472e4b0bdddc4d32ad3 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/miami-police-shooting-hands-up_us_57903472e4b0bdddc4d32ad3)

Lucky man
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on July 21, 2016, 07:41:35 PM
Quote from: Declan on July 21, 2016, 02:54:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/miami-police-shooting-hands-up_us_57903472e4b0bdddc4d32ad3 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/miami-police-shooting-hands-up_us_57903472e4b0bdddc4d32ad3)

Lucky man

Let's hear the "all lives matter" and "just obey the law and you won't get shot" crowd justify this one. Christ of almighty. Black people in this country are in more danger from cops than they are from Daesh at this point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2016, 09:36:36 PM
and now it's come out that the cop was actually trying to shoot the other fella and hit the black guy by mistake

https://twitter.com/ChuckRabin/status/756205074548924417
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on July 22, 2016, 02:24:00 AM
Which explains why the guy he actually shot was subsequently handcuffed.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omagh_gael on July 22, 2016, 12:39:15 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on July 21, 2016, 09:36:36 PM
and now it's come out that the cop was actually trying to shoot the other fella and hit the black guy by mistake

https://twitter.com/ChuckRabin/status/756205074548924417

Absolutely fuckin' crazy...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on July 22, 2016, 01:04:32 PM
Until someone in high authority within law enforcement comes out and says ' hold on there might be something wrong here? This will keep continuing.
United states of craziness.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 09:49:36 AM
Surprised there has been no mention of the documentary last night it has been talked about all morning here . . .

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-reviews/one-of-the-most-shocking-disturbing-and-angerinflaming-documentaries-youll-ever-see-review-of-nypd-biggest-gang-in-new-york-34934505.html

NYPD - The Biggest Gang in New York!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Walter Cronc on August 03, 2016, 09:50:38 AM
Watched this on BBC iplayer last week!

Those watch towers in the Bronx are crazy
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on August 03, 2016, 01:48:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 20, 2016, 03:31:24 PM
Quote from: Kickham csc on July 20, 2016, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:42:37 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: muppet on July 19, 2016, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on July 19, 2016, 08:26:43 PM
whats the thoughts on Michael Brown's mother speaking on prime time at the DNC? Surely a bit contentious given the tensions in the country right now between BLM and the police? More hatred being stirred up?

Yes, blacks should shut up until there is a more convenient time.
that wasn't my point Muppet.... come on now. It's the Democratic convention. Brown's shooting cased national riots - I think it's tasteless political maneuvering and a dangerous move given the state f things currently..

You think everyone should pretend it is not happening?

Maybe move the few bad cops to a new Precinct?

This never, ever works. It increases the frustration and the feeling of injustice, further and further, until it goes boom. And then you will blame Deomcrats for not saying anything.

Could the democrats not get the relative of someone who didn't punch a cop, try to get his gun, pull the trigger, and then rush the cop before he was shot!!!!!

and who the justice department cleared!!!

Surely there is a better case to represent the issue. With his mother speaking at the convention, does this not give the opposition the opportunity to say that the democrats condone violence against cops!!!

Stupid move and a potential vote getter for Trump

They HAVE invited other relatives. Brown's mother is only one of the speakers.

But, you have a valid point, although I don't think it will make any difference in terms of votes. Depends on what she has to say, I guess.

It is safe to say that her words will be a lot more closely vetted by the campaign than Melania Trump's were, though! ;D

I loved the speeches from the wives of the fallen police officers slaughtered by black lives matter supporters, wait, they were not represented as they were not invited, the democrats are such pandering svumbags it makes me sick.

Brown was a gangster, a blight on society but strap on invites his mother to speak as if her son is a victim, unfuckingbelievable.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
You obviously missed the tribute to "Fallen Officers", including a Dallas sheriff and widows speaking, on the final night.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 02:44:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
You obviously missed the tribute to "Fallen Officers", including a Dallas sheriff and widows speaking, on the final night.

Come on now you're not going to get stews attention by having reasoned debate.

You need to throw a few "scumbags" "pieces of shit" "bitch" words in there to catch his eye!

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on August 03, 2016, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 02:44:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
You obviously missed the tribute to "Fallen Officers", including a Dallas sheriff and widows speaking, on the final night.

Come on now you're not going to get stews attention by having reasoned debate.

You need to throw a few "scumbags" "pieces of shit" "bitch" words in there to catch his eye!
[/quote

You want reason, here it is!

The police officers families were only invited AFTER the DNC shit show were an afterthought, the president has invited the families of hoods and drug dealers to the White house for a sit down, how many family's of slain cops has he invited?

To trot out the mothers of dead hoods was despicable,the whole congress was God awful, a joke, Sanders supporters booing the future president and walking out of the convention, the scandal of the fix to get clinton the nomination got the top woman to resign, flag burning liberals outside the convention chanting once again about wanting dead cops.

As bad as the republican convention was, the democrat one was worse, comedic gold.


The liberals outside the
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on August 03, 2016, 06:32:04 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0803/806747-us-police-officer-arrested-over-alleged-is-support/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0803/806747-us-police-officer-arrested-over-alleged-is-support/)

Cop arrested over providing support to ISIS.

Fair play to the FBI for catching him before anyone got hurt.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 03, 2016, 09:17:31 PM
Quote from: stew on August 03, 2016, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 03, 2016, 02:44:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 03, 2016, 02:01:53 PM
You obviously missed the tribute to "Fallen Officers", including a Dallas sheriff and widows speaking, on the final night.

Come on now you're not going to get stews attention by having reasoned debate.

You need to throw a few "scumbags" "pieces of shit" "bitch" words in there to catch his eye!
[/quote

You want reason, here it is!

The police officers families were only invited AFTER the DNC shit show were an afterthought, the president has invited the families of hoods and drug dealers to the White house for a sit down, how many family's of slain cops has he invited?

To trot out the mothers of dead hoods was despicable,the whole congress was God awful, a joke, Sanders supporters booing the future president and walking out of the convention, the scandal of the fix to get clinton the nomination got the top woman to resign, flag burning liberals outside the convention chanting once again about wanting dead cops.

As bad as the republican convention was, the democrat one was worse, comedic gold.


The liberals outside the

Keep her lit stew! ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Nuns Lives Matter.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Man-Arrested-Charged-With-Capital-Murder-in-Slaying-of-2-Mississippi-Nuns-391479251.html

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on August 29, 2016, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Nuns Lives Matter.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Man-Arrested-Charged-With-Capital-Murder-in-Slaying-of-2-Mississippi-Nuns-391479251.html

Again you just post more incidents of crime with no real point!

Always black crime as well... An interesting pattern!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 29, 2016, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Nuns Lives Matter.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Man-Arrested-Charged-With-Capital-Murder-in-Slaying-of-2-Mississippi-Nuns-391479251.html

Again you just post more incidents of crime with no real point!

Always black crime as well... An interesting pattern!

Appalling that 2 people dedicated to helping others are brutally murdered. Trust you to bring race into it. Go on, make an excuse that he was from a broken home etc if it makes you feel better..


No point? I don't think so. You wouldn't be long squealing if the nuns had murdered this outstanding citizen.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 29, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
See Colin  kapernick is refusing to stand for national anthem before football games as a protest for perceived police brutality and unfair treatment of black people , he's very close to being cut by 49ers for bad performances and has a big salary wonder will he blame raciism when's hes dumped,
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Asal Mor on August 29, 2016, 09:18:10 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
See Colin  kapernick is refusing to stand for national anthem before football games as a protest for perceived police brutality and unfair treatment of black people , he's very close to being cut by 49ers for bad performances and has a big salary wonder will he blame raciism when's hes dumped,
I think he's dead right. And it seems like a brave move at a time when his career is falling apart. It'll be thrown in his face constantly that he's getting $20m a year for being useless but he's right to  do what he believes in.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on August 29, 2016, 09:31:08 PM
That tired old excuse "wealthy person can't be principled or comment on perceived ills in society".

I saw a brilliant put down on Twitter over this. A republican congressional candidate was laying into Lap over it and got retweeted with "rich man complains about America" is effectively the Republican party platform.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on August 29, 2016, 10:16:11 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 29, 2016, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Nuns Lives Matter.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Man-Arrested-Charged-With-Capital-Murder-in-Slaying-of-2-Mississippi-Nuns-391479251.html

Again you just post more incidents of crime with no real point!

Always black crime as well... An interesting pattern!

Appalling that 2 people dedicated to helping others are brutally murdered. Trust you to bring race into it. Go on, make an excuse that he was from a broken home etc if it makes you feel better..


No point? I don't think so. You wouldn't be long squealing if the nuns had murdered this outstanding citizen.

Of course it's appalling but why put it in this thread when it has no relevance other then your "agenda"!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2016, 02:08:58 AM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: screenexile on August 29, 2016, 05:27:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on August 29, 2016, 03:44:48 PM
Nuns Lives Matter.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Man-Arrested-Charged-With-Capital-Murder-in-Slaying-of-2-Mississippi-Nuns-391479251.html

Again you just post more incidents of crime with no real point!

Always black crime as well... An interesting pattern!

Appalling that 2 people dedicated to helping others are brutally murdered. Trust you to bring race into it. Go on, make an excuse that he was from a broken home etc if it makes you feel better..


No point? I don't think so. You wouldn't be long squealing if the nuns had murdered this outstanding citizen.

Right, because "nuns lives matter" has no racial connotations to it. Neither does posting it in the thread about police treatment of black people. ::)

And who, outside of figments of your imagination,  is making excuses for this lowlife you fuckin numpty!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2016, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
See Colin  kapernick is refusing to stand for national anthem before football games as a protest for perceived police brutality and unfair treatment of black people , he's very close to being cut by 49ers for bad performances and has a big salary wonder will he blame raciism when's hes dumped,

And when he doesn't blame racism, what will you have to say?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 03:34:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2016, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
See Colin  kapernick is refusing to stand for national anthem before football games as a protest for perceived police brutality and unfair treatment of black people , he's very close to being cut by 49ers for bad performances and has a big salary wonder will he blame raciism when's hes dumped,

And when he doesn't blame racism, what will you have to say?
i
Good riddance he's been shit for 2 years , football stadiums are not the place to make political statements 90%'of people in there are tanked and looking for any excuse to fight he doesn't need to be turning people on each other which will happen when he sits during the anthem , if he wants to make a statement make it away from football.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 04:43:11 AM
What about the millions watching on TV?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 04:43:11 AM
What about the millions watching on TV?
are they tuning in to see him sit on the bench ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 06:40:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 04:43:11 AM
What about the millions watching on TV?
are they tuning in to see him sit on the bench ?

You seem to be struggling to formulate whatever it is you're complaining about. First you're outraged that he would make a protest, but why would you care if nobody will see it because he's on the bench?

How were you aware of it in the first place? I mean, obviously nobody paid any attention to it. You know, because he sits on the bench.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2016, 10:12:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 03:34:35 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 30, 2016, 02:27:00 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 29, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
See Colin  kapernick is refusing to stand for national anthem before football games as a protest for perceived police brutality and unfair treatment of black people , he's very close to being cut by 49ers for bad performances and has a big salary wonder will he blame raciism when's hes dumped,

And when he doesn't blame racism, what will you have to say?
i
Good riddance he's been shit for 2 years , football stadiums are not the place to make political statements 90%'of people in there are tanked and looking for any excuse to fight he doesn't need to be turning people on each other which will happen when he sits during the anthem , if he wants to make a statement make it away from football.

But the NFL itself has gone all in for the political/patriotic/military bullshit, all in a cynical ratings/PR ploy. Whether or not you agree with Kapernick and/or the form of protest he has adopted, you have to admit that he has got a lot of balls to be using the anthem in the very drunk, hyper-jingoistic atmosphere that exists at these matches. And if some drunken, macho gobshite gets "offended" and decides to assault someone else, that's his own problem, not Kapernick's. Just like it would be if said drunken idiot was an anti war person who started throwing fists because he got offended by the latest fighter jet flyover of the stadium. The NFL are NOT presenting a politics-free form of entertainment.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on August 30, 2016, 10:23:47 AM
And to make the faux patriotism worse, they were actually charging the US military for all those gestures.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2016, 10:58:30 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 30, 2016, 10:23:47 AM
And to make the faux patriotism worse, they were actually charging the US military for all those gestures.

The two Arizona senators created a stink last year and Goodell was talking about returning the money. I wonder if they ever did?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 06:40:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 04:43:11 AM
What about the millions watching on TV?
are they tuning in to see him sit on the bench ?

You seem to be struggling to formulate whatever it is you're complaining about. First you're outraged that he would make a protest, but why would you care if nobody will see it because he's on the bench?

How were you aware of it in the first place? I mean, obviously nobody paid any attention to it. You know, because he sits on the bench.
When did I say I was outraged by his protest?
This is the same guy who tweeted storms a coming last year when thousands of people were displaced and many killed in Houston floods mostly black people .  like I said hopefully we won't have to look at him for much longer and he can concentrate on his humanitarian efforts full time.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 30, 2016, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 01:02:05 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 06:40:06 AM
Quote from: Gmac on August 30, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: gallsman on August 30, 2016, 04:43:11 AM
What about the millions watching on TV?
are they tuning in to see him sit on the bench ?

You seem to be struggling to formulate whatever it is you're complaining about. First you're outraged that he would make a protest, but why would you care if nobody will see it because he's on the bench?

How were you aware of it in the first place? I mean, obviously nobody paid any attention to it. You know, because he sits on the bench.
When did I say I was outraged by his protest?
This is the same guy who tweeted storms a coming last year when thousands of people were displaced and many killed in Houston floods mostly black people .  like I said hopefully we won't have to look at him for much longer and he can concentrate on his humanitarian efforts full time.

And for which he apologized straight away: ""I'm so sorry about my insensitive post earlier today. I didn't fully understand how many people are struggling in Houston right now and I feel horrible. My prayers are with everyone there"

He is not the first person to be an idiot on twitter (a forum perfectly designed for reactionary, ill-considered, poorly thought-out offerings), and won't be the last (Trump posts offensive nonsense every day and it doesn't appear to hurt him with the same people who are probably "upset" and "outraged" over Kaepernick).

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on August 31, 2016, 05:17:44 PM
https://www.rt.com/usa/357570-muskogee-police-pepper-spray/

84 year old black lady pepper sprayed by police. . . The Police are equal for everybody in America though  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on September 16, 2016, 11:18:29 PM
Off duty detective from Offaly attacked with a meat cleaver in nyc the suspect had been shot by a taser before this but it didn't take him down .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on September 21, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
when was he shot when he was reaching into car?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on September 21, 2016, 09:14:21 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
when was he shot when he was reaching into car?

Ah good your first reaction is to look for justification for shooting an unarmed civilian whose car has broken down!!

And they say Colin Kapernick is the problem...

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/20/video-shows-terence-crutcher-not-reaching-car-shot-lawyer-says/

He wasn't by the way!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2016, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
when was he shot when he was reaching into car?

They immediately administered the death penalty because a cop, saw him do something, anything, that could possibly be interpreted as him about to open the door of his car, reach in somewhere, grab a gun, spin around, and shoot fours cops who all were pointing drawn weapons at him.

For the above he was tasered. Then a short period of time passed. Then he was shot dead while lying tasered on the ground. The tasering was unnecessary at best, the shooting was probably murder.

The car was parked oddly, apparently broken down. To get shot dead for that (assuming new info that comes out doesn't change things) is hideous policing.

One report I read said the cops were looking for someone else. Another said a guy on a mic in the helicopter was making comments such as 'he looks like a bad dude and 'he may be on something'. Considering he would be further away than the video we watched, they were remarkable observations. He may have loaded the mind of the officer that pulled the trigger. But he was certainly making judgements (as far as we know) with little or no information.

The reality is that these are truly awful police officers, who undermine their colleagues' credibility and their society's foundations with their incompetent policing. Defending them is even worse again.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on September 21, 2016, 03:10:04 PM
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/protests-erupt-after-officers-kill-black-man-witnesses-say-was-unarmed-and-disabled-35066585.html

QuoteAccording to CMPD data compiled by the Southern Coalition for Social Justice, while black people are only 35 per cent of the Charlotte population, they make up 50 per cent of stops by police, 68 per cent of searches, and 74 per cent of cases involving use of force.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 21, 2016, 03:26:39 PM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/terence-crutcher-police-shooting-point-counterpoint/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/terence-crutcher-police-shooting-point-counterpoint/)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Kickham csc on September 21, 2016, 03:58:22 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2016, 03:10:04 PM
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/protests-erupt-after-officers-kill-black-man-witnesses-say-was-unarmed-and-disabled-35066585.html

QuoteAccording to CMPD data compiled by the Southern Coalition for Social Justice, while black people are only 35 per cent of the Charlotte population, they make up 50 per cent of stops by police, 68 per cent of searches, and 74 per cent of cases involving use of force.

Do you have the 100% 911 calls.

The big question is whether this region is where the crime is committed, or are the police ?

If the majority of the crime is conducted in this area, then you can't reach a conclusion of racially profiling, the police being active in the areas of crime.

I've been to Charlotte a lot, and the difference between the north of the city and the rest is alarming. From extremely affluent to abject poverty.

The problem is that the poverty section is predominantly black. I believe that if you mapped income levels to crime, there will be a high correlation.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on September 22, 2016, 03:17:41 PM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2016, 09:14:21 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
when was he shot when he was reaching into car?

Ah good your first reaction is to look for justification for shooting an unarmed civilian whose car has broken down!!

And they say Colin Kapernick is the problem...

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/20/video-shows-terence-crutcher-not-reaching-car-shot-lawyer-says/

He wasn't by the way!

The truth is unknown at this point but hey, you dig the knife in without knowing the full facts.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on September 22, 2016, 04:14:30 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/21/mysterious-lynching-of-frank-little-equality-activist
"Violence is as American as cherry pie."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on September 23, 2016, 02:20:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 21, 2016, 09:14:21 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 21, 2016, 12:50:56 AM
Quote from: screenexile on September 20, 2016, 12:39:38 PM
Shocking stuff!!

http://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-warning-unarmed-black-man-shot-and-killed-by-police-in-oklahoma-35064150.html

Any comment?? Gmac?? Foxcommander??
when was he shot when he was reaching into car?

Ah good your first reaction is to look for justification for shooting an unarmed civilian whose car has broken down!!

And they say Colin Kapernick is the problem...

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/20/video-shows-terence-crutcher-not-reaching-car-shot-lawyer-says/

He wasn't by the way!
the officer in question has been charged with first degree manslaughter .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2016, 05:31:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2016, 02:20:59 AM
the officer in question has been charged with first degree manslaughter .

Pity the charge isn't murder.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on September 23, 2016, 09:40:34 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on September 23, 2016, 05:31:51 AM
Quote from: Gmac on September 23, 2016, 02:20:59 AM
the officer in question has been charged with first degree manslaughter .

Pity the charge isn't murder.

How infuriating is America... They're burning Colin Kapernick jerseys because he won't stand for the National Anthem yet someone who murders Americans will be defended and backed to the hilt by so called 'Patriots'.

Is it worth living in American anymore? It's sad to see the Country in the state it's in.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

Not every dickhead in Ireland and the UK can readily get their hands on a gun.

I'm sure that is bound to have an impact on the mindset of the cops in question. I'm not condoning their actions, but these lads must be on the mental edge a good part of the job and subsequently not going to take the slightest chance and fire first, ask questions later.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

Not every d**khead in Ireland and the UK can readily get their hands on a gun.

I'm sure that is bound to have an impact on the mindset of the cops in question. I'm not condoning their actions, but these lads must be on the mental edge a good part of the job and subsequently not going to take the slightest chance and fire first, ask questions later.

None of the 3 victims I mentioned above were even remotely suspected of carrying weapons. The 12 year old was near her father who was carrying a rifle.

If the mindset of cops is to shoot everything that moves, in case they are nutcases with guns, then why bother with having cops at all? Just arm every citizen and tell them it is ok to shoot what they think are bad guys. What difference is there whether a cop pulls the trigger or anyone else?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

Not every d**khead in Ireland and the UK can readily get their hands on a gun.

I'm sure that is bound to have an impact on the mindset of the cops in question. I'm not condoning their actions, but these lads must be on the mental edge a good part of the job and subsequently not going to take the slightest chance and fire first, ask questions later.

None of the 3 victims I mentioned above were even remotely suspected of carrying weapons. The 12 year old was near her father who was carrying a rifle.



I was generalising with the dickhead part, not the three particular incidents you were referring to.

As for this part;

If the mindset of cops is to shoot everything that moves, in case they are nutcases with guns, then why bother with having cops at all? Just arm every citizen and tell them it is ok to shoot what they think are bad guys. What difference is there whether a cop pulls the trigger or anyone else?

Isn't that what the NRA are ultimately suggesting. Good guys shooting the bad guys any time there's a shooting at a school campus or cinema or wherever.
It sounds utterly nuts to anyone with a titter of wit, but with gun saturation in the US as it is, people are believing it makes sense!!
Scary times stateside.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2016, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

Not every d**khead in Ireland and the UK can readily get their hands on a gun.

I'm sure that is bound to have an impact on the mindset of the cops in question. I'm not condoning their actions, but these lads must be on the mental edge a good part of the job and subsequently not going to take the slightest chance and fire first, ask questions later.

None of the 3 victims I mentioned above were even remotely suspected of carrying weapons. The 12 year old was near her father who was carrying a rifle.



I was generalising with the d**khead part, not the three particular incidents you were referring to.

As for this part;

If the mindset of cops is to shoot everything that moves, in case they are nutcases with guns, then why bother with having cops at all? Just arm every citizen and tell them it is ok to shoot what they think are bad guys. What difference is there whether a cop pulls the trigger or anyone else?

Isn't that what the NRA are ultimately suggesting. Good guys shooting the bad guys any time there's a shooting at a school campus or cinema or wherever.
It sounds utterly nuts to anyone with a titter of wit, but with gun saturation in the US as it is, people are believing it makes sense!!
Scary times stateside.

I had actually typed pretty much exactly that in my previous post, but deleted it. I had also typed the the NRA have bought all Republicans and some Democrats so it is very hard to see where change will come from. I think it will get far worse before people over there start to cop (sorry) on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on September 23, 2016, 03:02:08 PM
In the US, the ubiquity of guns results in the gun being the default resolution to even the most minor of disputes. Muppet was saying that some particular police shootings he highlighted would not happen here or in the UK. There is practically no doubt about that, as some statistics from The Guardian illustrate:

There have been 59 fatal police shootings in England and Wales in the last 24 years.
There has been 1 fatal police shooting in Iceland in the 71 years of the country's existence.
There were 55 fatal police shootings in the US in the first 24 days of 2015.

There were 94 fatal police shootings in Australia in the twenty years from 1992 to 2011.
There were 97 fatal police shootings in the US in March of 2015.

There were 6 bullets fired by Finnish police in 2013.
There were seventeen bullets fired by police in the US in a single fatal shooting (of Antonio Zimbrano-Montes).

It is beyond grotesque.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on September 23, 2016, 03:10:26 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 23, 2016, 03:02:08 PM
In the US, the ubiquity of guns results in the gun being the default resolution to even the most minor of disputes. Muppet was saying that some particular police shootings he highlighted would not happen here or in the UK. There is practically no doubt about that, as some statistics from The Guardian illustrate:

There have been 59 fatal police shootings in England and Wales in the last 24 years.
There has been 1 fatal police shooting in Iceland in the 71 years of the country's existence.
There were 55 fatal police shootings in the US in the first 24 days of 2015.

There were 94 fatal police shootings in Australia in the twenty years from 1992 to 2011.
There were 97 fatal police shootings in the US in March of 2015.

There were 6 bullets fired by Finnish police in 2013.
There were seventeen bullets fired by police in the US in a single fatal shooting (of Antonio Zimbrano-Montes).

It is beyond grotesque.

This is BS, it takes away from your point which is correct.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on September 23, 2016, 03:19:08 PM
You give me too much credit. I'm not capable of making a point that is both BS and correct.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: omaghjoe on September 23, 2016, 03:28:05 PM
Quote from: Hardy on September 23, 2016, 03:19:08 PM
You give me too much credit. I'm not capable of making a point that is both BS and correct.

Your point was correct but the bit in bold was not your point. It was a statement used to back up your point and being wrong it took away from your point, even tho your point was correct ;)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: AZOffaly on September 23, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
That's basically what the wild west was. Some of these lads appear inclined towards those times.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on September 23, 2016, 09:16:20 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on September 23, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
That's basically what the wild west was. Some of these lads appear inclined towards those times.

This is it in a nutshell.

That is what the NRA wants. No need for cops. Quick draw justice for all. Fastest gun is right.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hardy on October 17, 2016, 07:48:53 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/10/17/head-of-u-s-police-chiefs-apologizes-for-historic-mistreatment-of-minorities/?pushid=breaking-news_1476711796&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/)

Two cops shot dead in separate 'ambush style' killings in Iowa!



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/)

Two cops shot dead in separate 'ambush style' killings in Iowa!

Looks like some white supremacist lowlife.

Apparently he was kicked out of high school football game a few weeks ago for waving a confederate flag at some black people during the national anthem.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/)

Two cops shot dead in separate 'ambush style' killings in Iowa!

Looks like some white supremacist lowlife.

Apparently he was kicked out of high school football game a few weeks ago for waving a confederate flag at some black people during the national anthem.

J70, have you seen Netflix 13th?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/)

Two cops shot dead in separate 'ambush style' killings in Iowa!

Looks like some white supremacist lowlife.

Apparently he was kicked out of high school football game a few weeks ago for waving a confederate flag at some black people during the national anthem.

J70, have you seen Netflix 13th?

No.

Now that you mentioned it I googled it and remember seeing a trailer or reading about it about a month ago.

Will check it out soon.

Is it good?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 03, 2016, 01:41:59 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: muppet on November 03, 2016, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
Quote from: muppet on November 02, 2016, 12:32:05 PM
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/ (http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1102/828571-iowa-shootings/)

Two cops shot dead in separate 'ambush style' killings in Iowa!

Looks like some white supremacist lowlife.

Apparently he was kicked out of high school football game a few weeks ago for waving a confederate flag at some black people during the national anthem.

J70, have you seen Netflix 13th?

No.

Now that you mentioned it I googled it and remember seeing a trailer or reading about it about a month ago.

Will check it out soon.

Is it good?

Incredible.

I don't want to say anything to spoil it but it is powerful stuff. The corruption that is disguised as 'lobbying' is incredible.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: muppet on November 21, 2016, 01:57:02 AM
Officer basically assassinated: http://www.wsj.com/articles/san-antonio-police-officer-fatally-shot-while-writing-ticket-1479673277?mod=e2tw (http://www.wsj.com/articles/san-antonio-police-officer-fatally-shot-while-writing-ticket-1479673277?mod=e2tw)

Shocking stuff.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)

Wise up fc who's going to defend that? Scum of the earth and should get the book thrown at them.

CNN doing a very good job ignoring it alright... not hard to see where the ignorance lies in your post!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)

Wise up fc who's going to defend that? Scum of the earth and should get the book thrown at them.

CNN doing a very good job ignoring it alright... not hard to see where the ignorance lies in your post!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/

If you go to their front page the story is buried in-between
"Growing up intersex" and "Peanut allergy: avoidance not always right".

Not to mention it's dwarfed by the likes of  Why you shouldn't use cotton swabs to clean your ears" and "Kendall Jenner's secret passion"

Yes - it's certainly front and centre.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)

Wise up fc who's going to defend that? Scum of the earth and should get the book thrown at them.

CNN doing a very good job ignoring it alright... not hard to see where the ignorance lies in your post!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/

If you go to their front page the story is buried in-between
"Growing up intersex" and "Peanut allergy: avoidance not always right".

Not to mention it's dwarfed by the likes of  Why you shouldn't use cotton swabs to clean your ears" and "Kendall Jenner's secret passion"

Yes - it's certainly front and centre.

So first of all it was ignored and now it's not front and centre . . . you keep shifting the goalposts there after being caught out so badly... I suppose it being wrong doesn't matter to guys like you in the 'post truth' era  ::)

Yes it's horiffic of course it is but how many hate crimes are there in the US on a daily basis? Should every one be front page news on every news site?

The story is fairly well down infowars/Breitbart sites as well why aren't you slamming those sites? Take off the blinkers!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 03:59:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:41:31 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 03:30:20 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)

Wise up fc who's going to defend that? Scum of the earth and should get the book thrown at them.

CNN doing a very good job ignoring it alright... not hard to see where the ignorance lies in your post!!

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/

If you go to their front page the story is buried in-between
"Growing up intersex" and "Peanut allergy: avoidance not always right".

Not to mention it's dwarfed by the likes of  Why you shouldn't use cotton swabs to clean your ears" and "Kendall Jenner's secret passion"

Yes - it's certainly front and centre.

So first of all it was ignored and now it's not front and centre . . . you keep shifting the goalposts there after being caught out so badly... I suppose it being wrong doesn't matter to guys like you in the 'post truth' era  ::)

Yes it's horiffic of course it is but how many hate crimes are there in the US on a daily basis? Should every one be front page news on every news site?

The story is fairly well down infowars/Breitbart sites as well why aren't you slamming those sites? Take off the blinkers!!!

ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS all have the story as one of the headlines. CNN doesn't - they buried it in the secondary News & Buzz section (not in the Top Stories section), now the second fluff story in the list after "Llama on the loose"

Yes - it's been ignored as a newsworthy story in the view of CNN. Better not upset their viewers as it doesn't fit their narrative on America.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/us

Current top headline

4 arrested in beating broadcast on Facebook Live
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/us

Current top headline

4 arrested in beating broadcast on Facebook Live
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html

Try www.cnn.com
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/us

Current top headline

4 arrested in beating broadcast on Facebook Live
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html

Try www.cnn.com

Caught out again fc... CNN is a global news network while the others you have listed are US Networks . . . Guess what's front and centre on the CNN US site??!!

Conservatives have a real knack of getting outraged at issues they can see but that in reality don't exist!!!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 05, 2017, 04:45:25 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
This is the new america. Do this as a protest against Donald Trump?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0105/842762-chicago-video-arrests/

No surprise that CNN ignore the story. The liberals on here can defend the behaviour (right eamon, j70)

YOU may have a warped view of race relations, but that doesn't mean every one else has.

Those lowlifes should be put away for a very long time (given that that apparently needs to be made explicitly clear to halfwits who think other's minds function the way their's do).

No idea who's reporting it, but I did hear about it on Talksport on my way to work this morning.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:58:30 PM
When I go to CNN now on the left side of the screen under Top Stories the first is
Torture broadcast live on Facebook
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2017, 01:15:27 AM
The police are definitely a bit trigger happy in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/23/armando-garcia-muro-police-shooting-stray-bullet-dog-la
and some other recent incidents mentioned there
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/19/seattle-police-shooting-charleena-lyles-mother
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2017, 01:39:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2017, 01:15:27 AM
The police are definitely a bit trigger happy in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/23/armando-garcia-muro-police-shooting-stray-bullet-dog-la
and some other recent incidents mentioned there
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/19/seattle-police-shooting-charleena-lyles-mother

Setting a pitbull on a cop TWICE.....dont have too much sympathy to be honest
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on June 24, 2017, 01:45:37 AM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2017, 01:39:40 AM
Setting a pitbull on a cop TWICE.....dont have too much sympathy to be honest

I'm not an admirer of pitbulls, but they are likely to attack without requiring orders to do so. Either way, capital punishment is not warranted for their handlers.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on June 24, 2017, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2017, 01:39:40 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 24, 2017, 01:15:27 AM
The police are definitely a bit trigger happy in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/23/armando-garcia-muro-police-shooting-stray-bullet-dog-la
and some other recent incidents mentioned there
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/19/seattle-police-shooting-charleena-lyles-mother

Setting a pitbull on a cop TWICE.....dont have too much sympathy to be honest

You're one hateful **** altogether.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on June 24, 2017, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/us

Current top headline

4 arrested in beating broadcast on Facebook Live
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html

Try www.cnn.com

Caught out again fc... CNN is a global news network while the others you have listed are US Networks . . . Guess what's front and centre on the CNN US site??!!

Conservatives have a real knack of getting outraged at issues they can see but that in reality don't exist!!!

And thats why they run the country these days, you liberals are just dripping in reality, I love this shit, keep bitchin about Trump and keep losing elections, here is a bit of reality for you kid, last week there were four elections, the reality based dems won exactly none of them, now eat that reality screen )
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 24, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Where did you hear that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on June 24, 2017, 06:48:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!


You are the epitome of leftist delusional thinking, thank you, dont ever, and I mean ever, change!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Where did you hear that?

Did Trump not complain that he is being investigated... by someone? ;D
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2017, 02:45:40 PM
Quote from: stew on June 24, 2017, 05:03:56 PM
Quote from: screenexile on January 05, 2017, 04:33:47 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 05, 2017, 04:28:47 PM
Quote from: dec on January 05, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/us

Current top headline

4 arrested in beating broadcast on Facebook Live
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/us/chicago-facebook-live-beating/index.html

Try www.cnn.com

Caught out again fc... CNN is a global news network while the others you have listed are US Networks . . . Guess what's front and centre on the CNN US site??!!

Conservatives have a real knack of getting outraged at issues they can see but that in reality don't exist!!!

And thats why they run the country these days, you liberals are just dripping in reality, I love this shit, keep bitchin about Trump and keep losing elections, here is a bit of reality for you kid, last week there were four elections, the reality based dems won exactly none of them, now eat that reality screen )

Right stew, because lies and propaganda and scapegoating and demonization have never been successfully used to win and keep power before.

The GOP win, therefore they must reflect an honest appraisal of and solutions to society's problems, is that right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on June 26, 2017, 03:07:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Where did you hear that?

Did Trump not complain that he is being investigated... by someone? ;D
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833)

How is he "at war with the police"?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 26, 2017, 03:22:06 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 26, 2017, 03:07:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 26, 2017, 02:37:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on June 24, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Where did you hear that?

Did Trump not complain that he is being investigated... by someone? ;D
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833 (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/875701471999864833)

How is he "at war with the police"?

I thought it was the investigating part you were on about.

Regardless, I think it can be safely said and predicted that Trump vacuously loves and praises everyone until the moment they cross him, and that he will be "at war" with anyone who doesn't kiss his ring and dares to call him on his bullshit or shady dealings. So far, that has cost the head of the federal police his job. He will not be the last.

But no, I would not call that a blanket "war with the police". Not at this point.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on September 21, 2017, 10:46:01 PM
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21557497_2067669580119912_8267398063972135686_n.png?oh=3ffabc28462110e5e1d1111fcbc635e3&oe=5A5AB2BA)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: stew on September 22, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Dear God! :o
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 05, 2020, 12:34:25 AM
Today in the porcine infallibility chronicles, the cops in Aurora CO (again!) have distinguished themselves by investigating a motorcycle theft by going up to a black family in an SUV, hauling them out at gunpoint, making them (including a six year old girl) lie face down on the concrete, and cuffing two of them behind their backs.

Viewer discretion advised, the sound of children crying like this is heart-wrenching:

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/aurora-police-detain-black-family-after-mistaking-their-vehicle-as-stolen

They were completely innocent and minding their own business. Doubtless the right wing propaganda machine will be along soon with some sort of skeleton in the cupboard to justify it. Maybe the little girl didn't eat her vegetables the night before, or something. The victims will be blamed somehow.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 06:10:20 AM
Quote from: stew on September 22, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Dear God! :o
where did stew go ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 05, 2020, 07:37:02 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 05, 2020, 06:10:20 AM
Quote from: stew on September 22, 2017, 08:51:40 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2017, 05:06:55 PM
Trump is at war with the police. He sacked Comey and Mueller is investigating him. Sad!

Dear God! :o
where did stew go ?

He got fairly deranged in his posting the last year or so he was here. I think Hillary as a presidential candidate put him over the edge as he appeared to virulently despise her and believed every conspiracy theory in the book about her.

Not sure if he was banned or if he finally decided it wasn't good for his blood pressure!

It was a shame, as he had been a decent enough sort on the board here for a long time.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 05:31:49 PM
Georgia police under investigation for shooting at car with teens inside during attempted traffic stop
(https://www.wbtv.com/2020/08/09/georgia-police-under-investigation-shooting-car-with-teens-inside-during-attempted-traffic-stop/)

By WJXT Staff | August 9, 2020 at 1:06 AM EDT - Updated August 9 at 8:39 PM

WAYCROSS, Ga. (WJXT/CNN) - State authorities are investigating after a Georgia police officer fired his gun at a vehicle with three teenagers and two younger children inside during an attempted traffic stop.

The two police officers involved in the Saturday incident describe a confrontation, where the 16-year-old behind the wheel drove towards one of the officers, who opened fire, and the 15-year-old tried to grab one of their guns.

But Dominique Goodman Sr., the father to all five children, tells a different story. He says multiple shots were fired at his three youngest children, ages 9 to 14, before he had to plead with the officers not to shoot his older sons.

"Those are my kids, man. Man, that's my child, man," said Goodman in cell phone video of the incident. "Those are children, man. They're minors, man."

The family says the confrontation began as the Goodman-Boyd children returned from Walmart in Waycross, Georgia. Amari Goodman, 12, says they noticed a police car following them without the lights on. It was only when the children got to their neighborhood that officers turned their lights on.

Police say they followed the car to obtain license plate information after they saw a traffic violation.

Once in their neighborhood, the two oldest children told the three younger ones to get out of the car and go find their father at home, just up the street.

"They let us out because they were scared. They didn't want nothing to happen to us. We got out and started running toward the house, and then, they just started shooting," Amari said.

Sincere Goodman, 9, says at least seven shots were fired, and one bullet whizzed by his head.

"It went past my face. I could've gotten shot in my face, but they shot the swing," he said.

It was after the three younger children got out of the car that police say the vehicle kept driving toward one of the officers with the 15-year-old and 16-year-old still inside. The officer fired multiple shots at the car, and the teenagers jumped out with it still in drive.

The teens were taken into custody at the scene. The family says at the time, they didn't know if they were being charged with any crime.

Police say there was an altercation during the arrests between an officer and the 15-year-old boy, who was treated for minor injuries. Pictures taken at the scene show the 15-year-old with blood dripping down his face as he stands handcuffed by a squad car.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said nobody was injured by gunfire during the incident.

"They shot at a car full of unarmed minors, a car full of unarmed children. Like, who in the world can't see that this is a 9-year-old? Who can't see that this is a child? They look like children," Goodman said. "They are babies. What was the purpose of shooting?"

Both officers involved have been placed on administrative leave, as the GBI conducts an independent investigation. Once the investigation is complete, it will be turned over to the Ware County District Attorney's Office for review.

Police say the 16-year-old is charged with reckless driving, aggravated assault on a police officer, driving without a license, possession of a handgun by a minor and a stop sign violation. The 15-year-old is charged with felony obstruction of an officer, removal or attempt to remove a firearm from an officer and possession of a handgun by a minor.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 23, 2016, 12:15:58 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on September 23, 2016, 12:04:33 PM
Quote from: muppet on September 22, 2016, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2016, 12:51:18 AM
Interesting breakdown/summary of all the 2016 killings by US police here:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database# (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database#)

Astonishing reading that.

Many whites killed as well, with the investigation ruled 'Justified'. For example, a 23 year old white woman was shot by her husband, a cop who claimed he was 'cleaning his gun'. Ruling: 'Justified'. Not negligence or incompetence or possible homicide, but Justified. Oscar Pistorius should have used that one.

This shooting of a 12 year old is particularly sad: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/12/police-fatally-shoot-ciara-meyer-12-pennsylvania)

As is this shooting of a suicidal woman who pulled a knife: http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html (http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2016/04/auburn_police_officer-involved.html)

All of the three women above were white, so I am not banging the racial drum. But in most civilised countries, the cops would not open fire in those scenarios. There is obviously an issue with either training (just shoot to kill) or personnel selection (are they completely incapable of assessing situations under pressure and just open fire?).

Each circumstance is different and I am not saying the police are wrong automatically, they are not. And even the 3 cases I picked above have their own different levels of blame to apportion. But I honestly believe that none of those women would have been shot dead in Ireland or the UK.

Not every d**khead in Ireland and the UK can readily get their hands on a gun.

I'm sure that is bound to have an impact on the mindset of the cops in question. I'm not condoning their actions, but these lads must be on the mental edge a good part of the job and subsequently not going to take the slightest chance and fire first, ask questions later.

None of the 3 victims I mentioned above were even remotely suspected of carrying weapons. The 12 year old was near her father who was carrying a rifle.



I was generalising with the dickhead part, not the three particular incidents you were referring to.

As for this part;

If the mindset of cops is to shoot everything that moves, in case they are nutcases with guns, then why bother with having cops at all? Just arm every citizen and tell them it is ok to shoot what they think are bad guys. What difference is there whether a cop pulls the trigger or anyone else?

Isn't that what the NRA are ultimately suggesting. Good guys shooting the bad guys any time there's a shooting at a school campus or cinema or wherever.
It sounds utterly nuts to anyone with a titter of wit, but with gun saturation in the US as it is, people are believing it makes sense!!
Scary times stateside.

I once said "If guns kept people safer we'd be allowed to carry them on commercial flights." Someone actually tried to argue with me that it was a great idea to let people carry guns on planes with no restrictions.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 06:33:50 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 05:31:49 PM
Georgia police under investigation for shooting at car with teens inside during attempted traffic stop
(https://www.wbtv.com/2020/08/09/georgia-police-under-investigation-shooting-car-with-teens-inside-during-attempted-traffic-stop/)

By WJXT Staff | August 9, 2020 at 1:06 AM EDT - Updated August 9 at 8:39 PM

WAYCROSS, Ga. (WJXT/CNN) - State authorities are investigating after a Georgia police officer fired his gun at a vehicle with three teenagers and two younger children inside during an attempted traffic stop.

The two police officers involved in the Saturday incident describe a confrontation, where the 16-year-old behind the wheel drove towards one of the officers, who opened fire, and the 15-year-old tried to grab one of their guns.

But Dominique Goodman Sr., the father to all five children, tells a different story. He says multiple shots were fired at his three youngest children, ages 9 to 14, before he had to plead with the officers not to shoot his older sons.

"Those are my kids, man. Man, that's my child, man," said Goodman in cell phone video of the incident. "Those are children, man. They're minors, man."

The family says the confrontation began as the Goodman-Boyd children returned from Walmart in Waycross, Georgia. Amari Goodman, 12, says they noticed a police car following them without the lights on. It was only when the children got to their neighborhood that officers turned their lights on.

Police say they followed the car to obtain license plate information after they saw a traffic violation.

Once in their neighborhood, the two oldest children told the three younger ones to get out of the car and go find their father at home, just up the street.

"They let us out because they were scared. They didn't want nothing to happen to us. We got out and started running toward the house, and then, they just started shooting," Amari said.

Sincere Goodman, 9, says at least seven shots were fired, and one bullet whizzed by his head.

"It went past my face. I could've gotten shot in my face, but they shot the swing," he said.

It was after the three younger children got out of the car that police say the vehicle kept driving toward one of the officers with the 15-year-old and 16-year-old still inside. The officer fired multiple shots at the car, and the teenagers jumped out with it still in drive.

The teens were taken into custody at the scene. The family says at the time, they didn't know if they were being charged with any crime.

Police say there was an altercation during the arrests between an officer and the 15-year-old boy, who was treated for minor injuries. Pictures taken at the scene show the 15-year-old with blood dripping down his face as he stands handcuffed by a squad car.

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said nobody was injured by gunfire during the incident.

"They shot at a car full of unarmed minors, a car full of unarmed children. Like, who in the world can't see that this is a 9-year-old? Who can't see that this is a child? They look like children," Goodman said. "They are babies. What was the purpose of shooting?"

Both officers involved have been placed on administrative leave, as the GBI conducts an independent investigation. Once the investigation is complete, it will be turned over to the Ware County District Attorney's Office for review.

Police say the 16-year-old is charged with reckless driving, aggravated assault on a police officer, driving without a license, possession of a handgun by a minor and a stop sign violation. The 15-year-old is charged with felony obstruction of an officer, removal or attempt to remove a firearm from an officer and possession of a handgun by a minor.

There are 20,000,000 traffic stops by police every year

Cherry picking a handful to "prove" a point proves nothing other than the fact you're a clown

I did read the entire article.....bottom paragraph reads:

"Police say the 16-year-old is charged with reckless driving, aggravated assault on a police officer, driving without a license, possession of a handgun by a minor and a stop sign violation. The 15-year-old is charged with felony obstruction of an officer, removal or attempt to remove a firearm from an officer and possession of a handgun by a minor."

They are some petty serious charges if true
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
Raise your hand if you've ever had an argument with your wife. Now imagine having the cops called on you, ordered to lie on the ground (which you do) and then have a dog set upon you to chew the tendons in your leg. You end up having multiple surgeries, lose your job, and may have to have your leg amputated.

What's the conservative justification for this going to be? He shouldn't have argued with his wife?

QuoteSalt Lake City police dog ordered to attack a Black man on his knees with his hands in the air
(https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/08/11/salt-lake-city-police-dog/)
Updated: 2 hours ago
When the police arrived at the home of Jeffery Ryans early one morning in April, the 36-year-old was startled, but said his reaction was almost instinctive.

Growing up as a Black man in Alabama, he said, you're taught to cooperate. Put your hands up when you're told. Get on the ground if they say so.

That's what he was trying to do on April 24 when Salt Lake City police were called to his house after someone heard him arguing with his wife.

Body camera footage from the officers show Ryans was in his backyard smoking a cigarette — he says he was about to leave for his job as a train engineer — when the officers shined their lights on him and started yelling.

"Get on the ground!" one officer yelled, as his police dog barked. "Get on the ground or you're going to get bit!"

Ryans dropped what was in his hands and put them in the air.

He recalled in an interview that he was confused. He didn't know where to go or what to do: One officer was yelling for him to come to him, while another screamed to get on the ground.

He was worried if he did the wrong thing, he would get shot.

"I wasn't running," he recalled. "I wasn't fighting. I was just cooperating. We've been through this. We've seen this. Always cooperate with the police, no matter what."

Bodycam shows that though Ryans was kneeling on the ground with his hands in the air, the K9 officer still ordered his dog to attack.

The dog, Tuco, latched on to Ryans' left leg, the footage shows. Even as another officer sat on top of Ryans and puts the man in handcuffs, the K9 officer continued to instruct his dog to "hit" — and Tuco responds by biting and tearing at Ryans' leg.

"Why are you doing this?" Ryans yelled, according to the video. "Why are you biting me?"

"Good boy," the officer said to his dog, as Ryans screamed in pain.

(Warning: the following video contains violence and swearing.)

https://youtu.be/eF6OtvxJBXo (https://youtu.be/eF6OtvxJBXo)

It's body camera video that Ryans can't watch now. It's too difficult to watch the dog biting, pulling his leg, knowing that injury has led to multiple surgeries, a lost job and has limited his ability to play sports with his kids.

"I felt like a chew toy," he said. "I didn't know why this was happening to me. That's what was going through my mind. Why?"

Ryans has taken the first steps toward filing a lawsuit against the Salt Lake City Police Department. In a notice of claim, which is required before a suit can be filed, his attorneys, Daniel Garner and Gabriel White, allege that the officer's use of force was unnecessary — and has caused an injury that could have been avoided if the officer "performed the appropriate actions" while arresting Ryans.

They say Ryans has suffered nerve and tendon damage, infections and has difficulty walking. Doctors have not ruled out the possibility he will need to have his leg amputated.

White alleges that officers reacted the way they did because his client is Black.

The attorney, who is white, said he's been in similar situations where he's had an argument with his wife or been in his backyard in the middle of the night letting his dog out. But the police never come, especially not with a K9 dog.

"What's different between the two of us that could make this happen to him, but I couldn't imagine happening to me?" he said. "No one's ever shown up at my house."

Salt Lake City police officials said they couldn't comment on Ryans' case because of the expected litigation.

It's not clear from the body camera footage who called police to Ryans' home, but the man said it wasn't his wife.

Police sought to arrest Ryans because his wife had filed a protective order last December and he wasn't supposed to be in their home. Court records show Ryans is facing domestic violence charges for an incident that occurred around that time, but charging documents offer no other details about what happened.

Ryans said his wife had told him that the protective order was lifted, and he had been back in their home for weeks before the police were called in April. He didn't know that her request to have the protective order lifted was still pending — so he was technically in violation of it at the time of his arrest.

Ryans now faces a charge of violating that protective order, but no court dates have been set.


The man, who has lived in Salt Lake City for the more than 15 years, says he wanted to publicly talk about what happened to him during a time when people have been protesting for months supporting Black Lives Matter and opposing police brutality.

He says police often treat Black people differently, and he wanted Utahns to see that it's happening here.

Ryans says he worked hard to get to where he is. He went to college, has a career and raised a family with his wife in a home they own. But he said that when that officer ordered his dog to keep biting him, it showed none of that mattered.

"People need to know Black lives matter," he said. "Everybody matters, but you can't just treat people differently because of their religion or their skin color. I developed myself to get to where I'm at right now. I should have the same respect as others. We don't get it."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
Did they have their own guns or... are they bring charged with possession of the cops guns that they allegedly grabbed?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/04/13/man-charged-with-murdering-yarmouth-police-officer-sean-gannon/amp

My buddy attempted to serve a warrant on the same individual 2 weeks before he shot Officer Gannon

Cops aren't putting pensioners out of pubs-they're dealing with extremely dangerous criminals and unpredictable and violent drug addicts


And the fire dept in a local town were ordered to remove a flag honoring officer Michael Chesna after someone complained

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/07/16/weymouth-police-officer-michael-chesna-vera-adams-fatally-shot/amp

But the cops are always the bad guys, right?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 07:15:55 PM
Story time with whitey - fantastic
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:26:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 07:15:55 PM
Story time with whitey - fantastic

When you live somewhere for 25 years and you're in my line of work you get to know an awful lot of people
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/04/13/man-charged-with-murdering-yarmouth-police-officer-sean-gannon/amp

My buddy attempted to serve a warrant on the same individual 2 weeks before he shot Officer Gannon

Cops aren't putting pensioners out of pubs-they're dealing with extremely dangerous criminals and unpredictable and violent drug addicts


And the fire dept in a local town were ordered to remove a flag honoring officer Michael Chesna after someone complained

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/07/16/weymouth-police-officer-michael-chesna-vera-adams-fatally-shot/amp

But the cops are always the bad guys, right?

What about a sensible approach, if they are so dangerous why intercept on the street? Wait till they go to kindergarten or middle school and lift them
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 07:41:06 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 06:57:00 PM
Did they have their own guns or... are they bring charged with possession of the cops guns that they allegedly grabbed?

"He's reaching for a gun" is the standard porcine mantra that they call out before they're about to shoot someone. If a gun is found on the victim, great. If not, change the story to "he was reaching for my gun." As you can probably see on this thread, there are plenty of people out there who will believe anything the cops say after they attack black people.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:44:41 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 07:34:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 07:14:09 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/04/13/man-charged-with-murdering-yarmouth-police-officer-sean-gannon/amp

My buddy attempted to serve a warrant on the same individual 2 weeks before he shot Officer Gannon

Cops aren't putting pensioners out of pubs-they're dealing with extremely dangerous criminals and unpredictable and violent drug addicts


And the fire dept in a local town were ordered to remove a flag honoring officer Michael Chesna after someone complained

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/local-news/2018/07/16/weymouth-police-officer-michael-chesna-vera-adams-fatally-shot/amp

But the cops are always the bad guys, right?

What about a sensible approach, if they are so dangerous why intercept on the street? Wait till they go to kindergarten or middle school and lift them

Doesn't apply to these 2 cases, maybe it does to the one Eamonn referenced

I think the people who've never lived here have no idea as to the level of criminality in some of these communities. 

A gang of 10-17 year olds in Chicago are suspected in 15 armed carjackings. Imagine trying to teach or discipline kids like that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/crime/2020/7/20/21327232/calumet-heights-carjacking-alyssa-blanchard-trinity-hospital
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
Sister car was carjacked on the Malone Ed one year... no one died. True story
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

We've been hating the police here for years! Many still do
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gallsman on August 11, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
Six figure jobs for rank and file cops?! Away and shite.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 11, 2020, 08:41:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 11, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
Six figure jobs for rank and file cops?! Away and shite.

Wouldn't be far away - average salary for a Toronto police officer is approx. $105K CAD
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:51:41 PM
Quote from: gallsman on August 11, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
Six figure jobs for rank and file cops?! Away and shite.

Away and double shite (you haven't a clue)

The top earners are pulling down $200K +

Average cop in Boston is on $127K

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/06/17/metro/amid-defunding-debate-boston-police-payroll-surges-dozens-officers-earn-more-than-300k-year/%3foutputType=amp

"The average pay for police department employees last year was $127,094, including nearly $30,000 in overtime and $20,000 in detail pay, in addition to a base salary. The tally includes civilian workers and sworn personnel"


245 state troopers pulled down more than $200K in 2018

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/03/12/state-police-troopers-earned-more-than-last-year/1LM2sE7Z5OJLujXQv9ZXyK/story.html%3foutputType=amp
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

I was repointing to your comment

"If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 11, 2020, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:54:33 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 08:15:48 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

I was repointing to your comment

"If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here."

I stand by that.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:11:17 PM
So you would personally would say "fvck the police"? (Because that what you wrote whether you meant to)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 11, 2020, 09:20:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:38:50 PM
Quote

If I was Trump I would demand a huge surge in hiring of minority police officers.

The police is a great 6 figure job for working class white people. One of my Irish American clients (who's own father is retired BPD) refers to anyone he knows in the police as being "on the Irish dole".....getting paid big money for doing fvck all. (Most of the time )

But your "fvck the police" stance is highly offensive...my buddy lost his training partner who was shot dead during a domestic dispute and he attempted to serve a warrant on the guy who shot Officer Gannon dead down the Cape 2 years ago. It's as ignorant as white people who assume all black people are criminals

1. I didn't say it was my stance. I said that if I was a black man from one of those neighbourhoods, it probably WOULD be my stance i.e. I can understand it/I can empathize. I'm a white, highly educated, middle class person who grew up in rural Ireland. I have little to fear from the police. I'm not going to be harrassed by the cops every other time I leave the house. I'm not going to be targeted on account of my skin colour or being in the "wrong" neighbourhood or pulled over on some bullshit excuse. I'm not going to go down as just another black criminal statistic if things go wrong and no one happens to be around filming. I'm not going to worry about the same happening to my son.

2. I'm sorry for your friend's partner, but I'm not talking about anecdotes. No one denies that there are many, many excellent, decent cops and that many of them have lost their lives in the course of their work. But they are all part of a system that covered up the "bad apples" for years and years, whether it was simple brutality, illegitimate killings, corruption and even in extreme cases outright professional criminality. I can throw plenty of anecdotes into the mix too from a guy I work with who is ex-NYPD. The bad apples may be and may have been a minority, but like other institutions that come to mind having grown up in catholic Ireland, they were indulged by the system and victims dismissed or worse. Just because you know a good cop who died trying to do the right thing doesn't mean that the perception of black and brown people based on their experiences at the hands of the police and the wider justice system and the mistrust that has built up over decades and decades is illegitimate.

What purveyors of the "bad apples" analogy seem to forget is that if an apple goes bad in the barrel, it doesn't mean you're just at risk of eating the bad one. A bad apple can cause all the others to rot. A small number of bad cops can turn an entire police force's culture around to the point where they're all bent because of their tendency to stick together and back each other up no matter how bad they are.

I wonder how many of the sycophantic cop bootlickers here were opposed to reform of the "gallant RUC" who were "doing a difficult and dangerous job, often sacrificing their lives to keep the people safe." Probably not a whole lot of them. All of the arguments I hear from people defending the cops are exactly the same arguments put forward by the unionists who didn't want to hear about RUC reform.

But it's different when your own people are on the receiving end of police violence. Anyone ever notice that?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Eamonn-i never knew thousands of Catholics murdering each other every year during the Troubles (and that the RUC were only stepping in to stop the bloodshed)

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 11, 2020, 09:34:07 PM
Eamonn-i never knew thousands of Catholics murdering each other every year during the Troubles (and that the RUC were only stepping in to stop the bloodshed)

Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: johnnycool on August 12, 2020, 08:20:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

We've been hating the police here for years! Many still do

Because they didn't represent the community we were from, maybe there's a similar issue in the US
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 08:54:33 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 12, 2020, 08:20:27 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 11, 2020, 08:03:58 PM
Its going to take a lot of reform and time to build trust between the authorities and minority communities. If I was a black man from a poor neighbourhood, I would probably say "f**k the police" too, and so would the vast majority of us here. Its rather sad (but not surprising) that a large segment of American society rejects out of hand that black and brown communities have legitimate reasons to mistrust the entire justice system. That the police are not the only repressive force at play in places besieged by criminality and social deprivation doesn't mean that they are not a problem. And let's face it – if it wasn't for mobile phones, none of this would have come to a head and police misconduct would still be being covered up and unacknowledged.

We've been hating the police here for years! Many still do

Because they didn't represent the community we were from, maybe there's a similar issue in the US

No way!!!!!!!!!!!! That couldnt be the case in the states! the cops are so wonderful
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 11:18:16 AM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 11:29:01 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 11:18:16 AM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."

How is black-on-black violence a justification or helpful context when discussing police discrimination to the black community?

Are you saying we shouldn't complain about police murders of black people, and other injustices also, until their communities get their own house in order?

Catholic's killing Catholic's were a real thing during the Troubles (IRA killed something like 400 Catholic's). But I never recall that justifying RUC partisanship.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 11:18:16 AM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 09:57:05 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 09:33:28 AM
It's mad the way Mr. "Not A White Supremacist" on this thread just came straight out and said that blackness is the sole reason for criminality

Almost like he's not "Not A White Supremacist" at all and is in fact an utterly virulent white supremacist

I hear Catholics were inherent, barbarous savages in this country - simply inferior human beings - at least that's what our friend above tells us, certainly the entirety of his "logic" does

Maybe he could expand on that

I doubt very much he'll expand on his logic.

His typical form is to pivot onto a tangental issue and ask you to explain some nonsense he found on the internet.

Also he likes to go down some variation of the "where will this end" & "think about the children" type statement to top off the post.

The statistics are the statistics

Homicide rate in the Black community is 8X that of the white community

Black on Black crime is a real thing, not something concocted by the Republicans

I'm surprised both Eamonn and Sid are okay with that

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0406-black-crime-20200403-lyiri4nzuvbuxks6i2h6mhirtq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

"We must realize that some black people are a much greater threat to other black people than the Ku Klux Klan or the White Citizens' Councils. The number of blacks gunned down in the streets by other blacks parallels our memories of the many blacks lynched in communities across the United States after Reconstruction. This is a devastating plague acutely affecting black communities across the country."
Why do you say blackness is in and of itself a reason for criminality?

What's your reasoning for this?

How does the mere fact of somebody's blackness make them more likely to be a criminal, as you claim?



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:06:21 PM
If you're referring to the quote-that came from a Black sociology professor. That's his experience in his own community, which is backed up by the STATISTICS I shared
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:06:21 PM
If you're referring to the quote-that came from a Black sociology professor. That's his experience in his own community, which is backed up by the STATISTICS I shared
Stop deflecting.

Answer the questions.

Why do you say blackness is in and of itself a reason for criminality?

What's your reasoning for this?

How does the mere fact of somebody's blackness make them more likely to be a criminal, as you claim?

Your entire argument is based on the premise that blackness carries an inherent degeneracy and inherent tendency towards criminality.

It doesn't.

What leads you to believe that it does?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:06:21 PM
If you're referring to the quote-that came from a Black sociology professor. That's his experience in his own community, which is backed up by the STATISTICS I shared
Stop deflecting.

Answer the questions.

Why do you say blackness is in and of itself a reason for criminality?

What's your reasoning for this?

How does the mere fact of somebody's blackness make them more likely to be a criminal, as you claim?

Your entire argument is based on the premise that blackness carries an inherent degeneracy and inherent tendency towards criminality.

It doesn't.

What leads you to believe that it does?

Why did the Black Sociology professor who writes for the Baltimore Sun times write what he wrote-maybe you should ask him, instead of asking me

Maybe you should also contact the CDC and have them remove the data that you don't like while you are at it

Black homicide rate is 8X that of the white homicide rate-that's a statistic. I made no editorial comment about it.....you did....therefore you are the racist
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:06:21 PM
If you're referring to the quote-that came from a Black sociology professor. That's his experience in his own community, which is backed up by the STATISTICS I shared
Stop deflecting.

Answer the questions.

Why do you say blackness is in and of itself a reason for criminality?

What's your reasoning for this?

How does the mere fact of somebody's blackness make them more likely to be a criminal, as you claim?

Your entire argument is based on the premise that blackness carries an inherent degeneracy and inherent tendency towards criminality.

It doesn't.

What leads you to believe that it does?

Why did the Black Sociology professor who writes for the Baltimore Sun times write what he wrote-maybe you should ask him, instead of asking me

Maybe you should also contact the CDC and have them remove the data that you don't like while you are at it

Black homicide rate is 8X that of the white homicide rate-that's a statistic. I made no editorial comment about it.....you did....therefore you are the racist
Again, you've completely deflected to try and mask an inability to answer they key question.

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:54:24 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true

Again you're deflecting.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

Also, you've been offered numerous chances to claim that this is not actually your argument and have not done so.

That's because the claim of inherent black degeneracy and criminality is your argument, and you know full well it is your argument.

The claim of inherent black degeneracy and criminality is explictly racist.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.

No, it was you who concocted a racist comment and claimed that someone else uttered it. Despicable behaviour that should by rights have you kicked off this board.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.

No, it's you who concocted a racist comment and then claimed that someone else uttered it. Despicable behaviour that should by rights have you kicked off this board.

You're utterly pathetic.

The last desperate gaslighting exercise of an online racist who spends their e-life denying racism is to mendaciously claim racism against somebody when that person exposes racism.

Again, Whitey, answer the question.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.

No, it's you who concocted a racist comment and then claimed that someone else uttered it. Despicable behaviour that should by rights have you kicked off this board.

You're utterly pathetic.

The last desperate gaslighting exercise of online racist who spends their e-life denying racism is to mendaciously claim racism against somebody when that person exposes racism.

Again, Whitey, answer the question.

Whether or not I am pathetic is for others to judge.

You have no right to bully or badger anyone else here, least of all on foot of an offensive and fake quote that you yourself concocted.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.

No, it's you who concocted a racist comment and then claimed that someone else uttered it. Despicable behaviour that should by rights have you kicked off this board.

You're utterly pathetic.

The last desperate gaslighting exercise of an online racist who spends their e-life denying racism is to mendaciously claim racism against somebody when that person exposes racism.

Again, Whitey, answer the question.

LOL-I quoted statistics and YOU drew a conclusion not me

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:05:31 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:56:08 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:50:41 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 03:28:54 PM

Answer it.

Why do you claim blackness is inherently degenerate and carries an inherent tendency towards criminality?

What evidence is there for such?

He didn't claim that. Those words are yours. Own them.

That's what he claims. Let him answer for himself as to why he claims such.

The only one here with anything to answer for is you. You've just apologised for something similar on another thread. Time to do the same here and move on.
Let the white supremacist answer for himself. It's very telling about your own biases that you've tried to intervene on his behalf here.

No, it's you who concocted a racist comment and then claimed that someone else uttered it. Despicable behaviour that should by rights have you kicked off this board.

You're utterly pathetic.

The last desperate gaslighting exercise of online racist who spends their e-life denying racism is to mendaciously claim racism against somebody when that person exposes racism.

Again, Whitey, answer the question.

Whether or not I am pathetic is for others to judge.

You have no right to bully or badger anyone else here, least of all on foot of an offensive and fake quote that you yourself concocted.
Pathetic victim playing by somebody who intervenes on behalf of an actual bully, a bully who on this forum has been utterly intent on vilifying black people in the most grotesque way for many years now.

The tactic of the bully is to claim that that  those who stand up to the bully is the real bully, that those who stand up to actual racists are racist. Orwellian.

I didn't have to quote him. I exposed utterly accurately what his real argument is because he's too cowardly to admit to it himself - his argument that blackness is inherently degenerate and tended towards criminality.

Because if you base your argument about criminality entirely on skin colour, and provide zero context, such as centuries of continuing dehumaninsing and systemic racism and deliberate black community destruction by a white supremacist ethnostate - which the US is - yes, you very much are saying that black skin colour is the determining, causal factor in criminality.

You are saying it is the only factor.


Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
Pathetic victim playing by somebody who intervenes on behalf of an actual bully, a bully who on this forum has been utterly intent on vilifying black people in the most grotesque way for many years now.

The tactic of the bully is to claim that that  those who stand up to the bully is the real bully, that those who stand up to actual racists are racist. Orwellian.

I didn't have to quote him. I exposed utterly accurately what his real argument is because he's too cowardly to admit to it himself - his argument that blackness is inherently degenerate and tended towards criminality.

Because if you base your argument about criminality entirely on skin colour, and provide zero context, such as centuries of continuing dehumaninsing and systemic racism and deliberate black community destruction by a white supremacist ethnostate - which the US is - yes, you very much are saying that black skin colour is the determining, causal factor in criminality.

You are saying it is the only factor.

I have made no claim in relation to the matter being discussed, or the contributory factors giving rise to it.

You can rant and rave and insult me all you like but I won't be rising to your bait.

You made a racist comment and claimed that someone else uttered it. I've already said that you should apologise and move on. I still think you should.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Whitey, what would be your view on bringing that total down? The 8 times more likely to commit murder?

No point banging on about that number unless you see a way of stopping it?

Obviously shooting them or chocking them to death will only create more violence..

Education/fair employment/banning guns/better housing/better health?

Would they be the best way forward? or just continue with the current set up and hope for the best?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Whitey, what would be your view on bringing that total down? The 8 times more likely to commit murder?

No point banging on about that number unless you see a way of stopping it?

Obviously shooting them or chocking them to death will only create more violence..

Education/fair employment/banning guns/better housing/better health?

Would they be the best way forward? or just continue with the current set up and hope for the best?

8 times more likely to be murdered would be a more accurate description of the problem

I'm in the middle of something right now but will respond later.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 04:17:56 PM
Pathetic victim playing by somebody who intervenes on behalf of an actual bully, a bully who on this forum has been utterly intent on vilifying black people in the most grotesque way for many years now.

The tactic of the bully is to claim that that  those who stand up to the bully is the real bully, that those who stand up to actual racists are racist. Orwellian.

I didn't have to quote him. I exposed utterly accurately what his real argument is because he's too cowardly to admit to it himself - his argument that blackness is inherently degenerate and tended towards criminality.

Because if you base your argument about criminality entirely on skin colour, and provide zero context, such as centuries of continuing dehumaninsing and systemic racism and deliberate black community destruction by a white supremacist ethnostate - which the US is - yes, you very much are saying that black skin colour is the determining, causal factor in criminality.

You are saying it is the only factor.

I have made no claim in relation to the matter being discussed, or the contributory factors giving rise to it.

You can rant and rave and insult me all you like but I won't be rising to your bait.

You made a racist comment and claimed that someone else uttered it. I've already said that you should apologise and move on. I still think you should.
What on earth are you talking about? You're pathetic.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
I have made no claim in relation to the matter being discussed, or the contributory factors giving rise to it.

You can rant and rave and insult me all you like but I won't be rising to your bait.

You made a racist comment and claimed that someone else uttered it. I've already said that you should apologise and move on. I still think you should.
What on earth are you talking about? You're pathetic.

You know full well exactly what I'm talking about and have already acknowledged that.
Quote
I didn't have to quote him. I exposed utterly accurately what his real argument is because he's too cowardly to admit to it himself - his argument that blackness is inherently degenerate and tended towards criminality.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight
Your argument is that blackness is the cause of criminality.

That it is inherent.

Reference to skin colour and ethnicity with in connection to criminality - with zero context which acknowledges the contemporary and historical status of the US as a white supremacist ethnostate which systematically discriminates against and destroys black people - literally zero reference to anything except race - is an argument that blackness is inherently criminal, and criminality is inherently black.

Frankly, you should be fucked off the forum for good with the sort of unbelievably racist shite you've been posting in the last couple of hours alone, never mind the many years of similar.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:11:27 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:09:34 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 04:24:01 PM
I have made no claim in relation to the matter being discussed, or the contributory factors giving rise to it.

You can rant and rave and insult me all you like but I won't be rising to your bait.

You made a racist comment and claimed that someone else uttered it. I've already said that you should apologise and move on. I still think you should.
What on earth are you talking about? You're pathetic.

You know full well exactly what I'm talking about and have already acknowledged that.
Quote
I didn't have to quote him. I exposed utterly accurately what his real argument is because he's too cowardly to admit to it himself - his argument that blackness is inherently degenerate and tended towards criminality.
Your "argument" is that exposing a racist argument is itself racist.

Good f**k.

Have you no shame at all?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight
Your argument is that blackness is the cause of criminality.

That it is inherent.

Reference to skin colour and ethnicity with in connection to criminality - with zero context which acknowledges the contemporary and historical status of the US as a white supremacist ethnostate which systematically discriminates against and destroys black people - literally zero reference to anything except race - is an argument that blackness is inherently criminal, and criminality is inherently black.

Frankly, you should be fucked off the forum for good with the sort of unbelievably racist shite you've been posting in the last couple of hours alone, never mind the many years of similar.

LOL-so now you're telling me what MY argument is

The statistics are the statistics - you're the one playing connect the dots With the information not me

Contact the moderators if you feel strongly enough about what I posted
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

Your "argument" is that exposing a racist argument is itself racist.

It's not. I have made no argument here.

I did take exception to your attempt to frame your own racist utterance onto another poster. Your only response since is to dig and dig, increasingly aggressively and profanely.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

Your "argument" is that exposing a racist argument is itself racist.

It's not. I have made no argument here.

I did take exception to your attempt to frame your own racist utterance onto another poster. Your only response since is to dig and dig, increasingly aggressively and profanely.
It ain't me who's spreading racism or digging here, mate

You should really have a good look at yourself in the mirror, because what stares back won't be pretty
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

Your "argument" is that exposing a racist argument is itself racist.

It's not. I have made no argument here.

I did take exception to your attempt to frame your own racist utterance onto another poster. Your only response since is to dig and dig, increasingly aggressively and profanely.
It ain't me who's spreading racism or digging here, mate

You should really have a good look at yourself in the mirror, because what stares back won't be pretty

Own your own words. Then we move on.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:38:55 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight
Your argument is that blackness is the cause of criminality.

That it is inherent.

Reference to skin colour and ethnicity with in connection to criminality - with zero context which acknowledges the contemporary and historical status of the US as a white supremacist ethnostate which systematically discriminates against and destroys black people - literally zero reference to anything except race - is an argument that blackness is inherently criminal, and criminality is inherently black.

Frankly, you should be fucked off the forum for good with the sort of unbelievably racist shite you've been posting in the last couple of hours alone, never mind the many years of similar.

LOL-so now you're telling me what MY argument is

The statistics are the statistics - you're the one playing connect the dots With the information not me

Contact the moderators if you feel strongly enough about what I posted

I know full well what your game is.

That game is to make virulently racist "arguments", refuse to back them up, debate them or expand on them when challenged, and then troll, deflect, gaslight and write weasel words to mask your virulently racist "arguments".

You, sadly, are a classic example of the internet enabling utterly, hateful, stupid people with utterly hateful, stupid opinions.





Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.


RUC, Bloody Sunday, Shoot to kill, blah blah blah blah blah

Absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, but keep playing the victim card if it makes you feel good about yourself

Police discrimination - seems relevant to the point of this thread to me?

What seems irrelevant to me is you confusing that theme deliberately by focusing on black on black violence in a thread focused on police discrimination.

But you know that don't you - it's a deliberate tactic to make sure we argue about that instead of police discrimination.

Your ideology and tactics are transparent and weak.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:43:07 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:33:32 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
Quote from: five points on August 12, 2020, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 12, 2020, 05:11:27 PM

Your "argument" is that exposing a racist argument is itself racist.

It's not. I have made no argument here.

I did take exception to your attempt to frame your own racist utterance onto another poster. Your only response since is to dig and dig, increasingly aggressively and profanely.
It ain't me who's spreading racism or digging here, mate

You should really have a good look at yourself in the mirror, because what stares back won't be pretty

Own your own words. Then we move on.
A racist poster who gaslights that exposing virulent racism is itself racism is peak internet brain rot.

You probably need professional help, mate.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.


RUC, Bloody Sunday, Shoot to kill, blah blah blah blah blah

Absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, but keep playing the victim card if it makes you feel good about yourself

Police discrimination - seems relevant to the point of this thread to me?

What seems irrelevant to me is you confusing that theme deliberately by focusing on black on black violence in a thread focused on police discrimination.

But you know that don't you - it's a deliberate tactic to make sure we argue about that instead of police discrimination.

Your ideology and tactics are transparent and weak.

So when the Chicago police got the 911 call (from a Black person) about the (Black) guy with the gun in Englewood last Sunday what should they have done in your opinion

(A) Not responded at all

(B) Responded but took their time (hoping he'd be gone by the time they got there)

(C) Responded as they did, putting their own lives in danger  and were  then surrounded by a mob several hundred deep when they shot him after he shot at them
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:03:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.


RUC, Bloody Sunday, Shoot to kill, blah blah blah blah blah

Absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, but keep playing the victim card if it makes you feel good about yourself

Police discrimination - seems relevant to the point of this thread to me?

What seems irrelevant to me is you confusing that theme deliberately by focusing on black on black violence in a thread focused on police discrimination.

But you know that don't you - it's a deliberate tactic to make sure we argue about that instead of police discrimination.

Your ideology and tactics are transparent and weak.

So when the Chicago police got the 911 call (from a Black person) about the (Black) guy with the gun in Englewood last Sunday what should they have done in your opinion

(A) Not responded at all

(B) Responded but took their time (hoping he'd be gone by the time they got there)

(C) Responded as they did, putting their own lives in danger  and were  then surrounded by a mob several hundred deep when they shot him after he shot at them

Slightly craftier attempt this time but your still using the classic deflection technique.

Your post sheds zero light on the theme of police discrimination - your trying, time after time, to spin this back on the African American community as their own fault.

Transparent and weak mo chara
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:03:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.


RUC, Bloody Sunday, Shoot to kill, blah blah blah blah blah

Absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, but keep playing the victim card if it makes you feel good about yourself

Police discrimination - seems relevant to the point of this thread to me?

What seems irrelevant to me is you confusing that theme deliberately by focusing on black on black violence in a thread focused on police discrimination.

But you know that don't you - it's a deliberate tactic to make sure we argue about that instead of police discrimination.

Your ideology and tactics are transparent and weak.

So when the Chicago police got the 911 call (from a Black person) about the (Black) guy with the gun in Englewood last Sunday what should they have done in your opinion

(A) Not responded at all

(B) Responded but took their time (hoping he'd be gone by the time they got there)

(C) Responded as they did, putting their own lives in danger  and were  then surrounded by a mob several hundred deep when they shot him after he shot at them

Slightly craftier attempt this time but your still using the classic deflection technique.

Your post sheds zero light on the theme of police discrimination - your trying, time after time, to spin this back on the African American community as their own fault.

Transparent and weak mo chara

It's very easy for you to second guess and be a Monday morning quarterback of the police from the safety of your house 3,000 miles away
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:23:00 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:11:19 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:03:15 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:51:49 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:41:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 05:21:30 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community.  The bigger problem is that Sid and Eamonn and other liberals are so "woke" that they can't even admit there is a problem

They also  think that if we defund the police, pull down all the Columbus statues and rename all the John Mitchel's clubs in Ireland that these murders will somehow end overnight

Ah I'm not rising to that bait.

You've already muddled the point of this thread - I.e. police discrimination against African Americans - by twisting it into a black on black violence analysis. It's a fairly transparent and shallow tactic to discredit a legitimate complaint by an oppressed community - straight of the 70's/80's RUC playbook.

If you want to have it out about John Mitchell, switch back to the old thread and make yourself look like a dinosaur again - I'll happily have it out with you there.


RUC, Bloody Sunday, Shoot to kill, blah blah blah blah blah

Absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, but keep playing the victim card if it makes you feel good about yourself

Police discrimination - seems relevant to the point of this thread to me?

What seems irrelevant to me is you confusing that theme deliberately by focusing on black on black violence in a thread focused on police discrimination.

But you know that don't you - it's a deliberate tactic to make sure we argue about that instead of police discrimination.

Your ideology and tactics are transparent and weak.

So when the Chicago police got the 911 call (from a Black person) about the (Black) guy with the gun in Englewood last Sunday what should they have done in your opinion

(A) Not responded at all

(B) Responded but took their time (hoping he'd be gone by the time they got there)

(C) Responded as they did, putting their own lives in danger  and were  then surrounded by a mob several hundred deep when they shot him after he shot at them

Slightly craftier attempt this time but your still using the classic deflection technique.

Your post sheds zero light on the theme of police discrimination - your trying, time after time, to spin this back on the African American community as their own fault.

Transparent and weak mo chara

It's very easy for you to second guess and be a Monday morning quarterback of the police from the safety of your house 3,000 miles away

Tell you what little man - open another  thread where we can discuss police response tactics to 911 calls there, as opposed to confusing a thread about police discrimination.

There's a good chap
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 12, 2020, 07:03:23 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?
do you think every police shooting of a black person could be avoided ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 12, 2020, 07:03:23 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?
do you think every police shooting of a black person could be avoided ?

I don't think anyone made that claim about anyone of any colour or ethnicity. Did you just pull that out of the air?

Police just shouldn't discriminate against people, it's a very simple argument - not a lot of fat on it. And if they do systemically over generations then they should expect to be reformed. Like now for example.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp

Doesn't explain Rodney King, George Floyd or the countless other blatant acts of violent rascism by police against African Americans.

To be clear Whitey - black people aren't making this stuff up or misunderstanding it in any way shape or form.

They see incidents for what they are - occasionally it's  well intentioned yet tragic mistakes by honest cops - but more often dirty violent racism
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp

Doesn't explain Rodney King, George Floyd or the countless other blatant acts of violent rascism by police against African Americans.

To be clear Whitey - black people aren't making this stuff up or misunderstanding it in any way shape or form.

They see incidents for what they are - occasionally it's  well intentioned yet tragic mistakes by honest cops - but more often dirty violent racism

Yes-I completely agree and there are bad apples who never should have been let in to begin with or should have been kicked out once they were in.....no reasonable person would dispute that. Ang doing forward hopefully we'll see more and more of them kicked out

And Black people absolutely have every right to feel aggrieved for how they have been treated by certain elements of law enforcement.....no can can dispute that either

But for white liberals (who would $hit themselves 10 times over if they even had to even walk through one of these neighborhoods) to start calling for the police to be either defunded or disbanded is lunacy of the highest order. That's not what the Black community wants.....that's what THEY  want

Some of these besieged communities actually want MORE police

And for people like Eamonn or Sid or whoever start cherry picking  incidents involving the police  to create  a narrative, how is that any different from a white person cherry picking incidents of Black criminality to also create a narrative

There are 20,000,000 traffic stops in the United States every year and 99.99999% of those pass without incident. The likes of Eamonn and Sid use the 0.000001% to tar every police officer with a label that is not only very divisive, but is also becoming very dangerous
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Chief on August 12, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp

Doesn't explain Rodney King, George Floyd or the countless other blatant acts of violent rascism by police against African Americans.

To be clear Whitey - black people aren't making this stuff up or misunderstanding it in any way shape or form.

They see incidents for what they are - occasionally it's  well intentioned yet tragic mistakes by honest cops - but more often dirty violent racism

Yes-I completely agree and there are bad apples who never should have been let in to begin with or should have been kicked out once they were in.....no reasonable person would dispute that. Ang doing forward hopefully we'll see more and more of them kicked out

And Black people absolutely have every right to feel aggrieved for how they have been treated by certain elements of law enforcement.....no can can dispute that either

But for white liberals (who would $hit themselves 10 times over if they even had to even walk through one of these neighborhoods) to start calling for the police to be either defunded or disbanded is lunacy of the highest order. That's not what the Black community wants.....that's what THEY  want

Some of these besieged communities actually want MORE police

And for people like Eamonn or Sid or whoever start cherry picking  incidents involving the police  to create  a narrative, how is that any different from a white person cherry picking incidents of Black criminality to also create a narrative

There are 20,000,000 traffic stops in the United States every year and 99.99999% of those pass without incident. The likes of Eamonn and Sid use the 0.000001% to tar every police officer with a label that is not only very divisive, but is also becoming very dangerous

Listen - I can't claim to speak for the black community, and would never try to.

The best I can do is analogise to here when the RUC was disbanded - it was a great thing. Fresh start for all - don't get me wrong, some of the ancient distrust lingers - but it's a vast improvement.

I can only think a wholesale reform such as that would be a good way forward in America too.

Give it whatever label you want, but new forces with ombudsman's and policing boards made up of community representatives would have least give formal redress to grievances.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 12, 2020, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:32:15 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 12, 2020, 04:08:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 01:00:28 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 12, 2020, 12:10:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2020, 10:33:46 PM


Depends what year you are looking at, Irish civil war created family's killing each other.. Basically an unknown number

White Christians in a small part of the island knocking ten bells out of each other for well over thirty years!

Let's not forget that the vast majority of white murder victims are killed by other whites.

The vast majority of Latino murder victims are killed by other Latinos.

The vast majority of Asian murder victims are killed by other Asians.

People tend to congregate with people of their own race, so they're more likely to bump into each other, have dinner together, work together, and do all manner of things together, including bad things. The reason you never hear about "white-on-white" crime is because only when it comes to black people does their race get highlighted as a factor in when they do bad things.


Directly from the CDC

2016-homicide rates for whites 2.9/100,000

2016-homicide rates for blacks 22.8/100,000

If you don't think there is a serious problem within the African American community, then you are as much part of the problem as the shooters are.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6715a8.htm

So what IS the serious problem?

The problem is that the African American community has a homicide rate that is EIGHT TIMES that of the White Community. 

I guess I didn't phrase the question properly.

WHY does this problem exist?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 12, 2020, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp

Doesn't explain Rodney King, George Floyd or the countless other blatant acts of violent rascism by police against African Americans.

To be clear Whitey - black people aren't making this stuff up or misunderstanding it in any way shape or form.

They see incidents for what they are - occasionally it's  well intentioned yet tragic mistakes by honest cops - but more often dirty violent racism

Yes-I completely agree and there are bad apples who never should have been let in to begin with or should have been kicked out once they were in.....no reasonable person would dispute that. Ang doing forward hopefully we'll see more and more of them kicked out

And Black people absolutely have every right to feel aggrieved for how they have been treated by certain elements of law enforcement.....no can can dispute that either

But for white liberals (who would $hit themselves 10 times over if they even had to even walk through one of these neighborhoods) to start calling for the police to be either defunded or disbanded is lunacy of the highest order. That's not what the Black community wants.....that's what THEY  want

Some of these besieged communities actually want MORE police

And for people like Eamonn or Sid or whoever start cherry picking  incidents involving the police  to create  a narrative, how is that any different from a white person cherry picking incidents of Black criminality to also create a narrative

There are 20,000,000 traffic stops in the United States every year and 99.99999% of those pass without incident. The likes of Eamonn and Sid use the 0.000001% to tar every police officer with a label that is not only very divisive, but is also becoming very dangerous

Listen - I can't claim to speak for the black community, and would never try to.

The best I can do is analogise to here when the RUC was disbanded - it was a great thing. Fresh start for all - don't get me wrong, some of the ancient distrust lingers - but it's a vast improvement.

I can only think a wholesale reform such as that would be a good way forward in America too.

Give it whatever label you want, but new forces with ombudsman's and policing boards made up of community representatives would have least give formal redress to grievances.



Absolutely agree with everything you say, but the RUC analogy is somewhat inaccurate

Many of the inner city communities are virtual war zones with Black people shooting Black people day in and day out. Chicago will have close to 800 murders this year alone

The cops are being asked to step in the middle and play peacemaker and not alone do they get little support from the community, but they often get dogs abuse after having put  their lives in danger-just look at the videos of what occurred last Sunday in Englewood

Yes, there are bad cops and crooked cops, but isolated incidents get sensationalized by people with other agendas to push.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2020, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Whitey, what would be your view on bringing that total down? The 8 times more likely to commit murder?

No point banging on about that number unless you see a way of stopping it?

Obviously shooting them or chocking them to death will only create more violence..

Education/fair employment/banning guns/better housing/better health?

Would they be the best way forward? or just continue with the current set up and hope for the best?

8 times more likely to be murdered would be a more accurate description of the problem

I'm in the middle of something right now but will respond later.

For a man "in the middle of something right now" you sure posted a lot without answering the question.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2020, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Whitey, what would be your view on bringing that total down? The 8 times more likely to commit murder?

No point banging on about that number unless you see a way of stopping it?

Obviously shooting them or chocking them to death will only create more violence..

Education/fair employment/banning guns/better housing/better health?

Would they be the best way forward? or just continue with the current set up and hope for the best?

8 times more likely to be murdered would be a more accurate description of the problem

I'm in the middle of something right now but will respond later.

For a man "in the middle of something right now" you sure posted a lot without answering the question.

I was looking back, thinking, I've missed his response  ;D
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 02:57:59 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 12:29:31 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 12, 2020, 10:19:42 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 04:56:18 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 12, 2020, 04:45:36 PM
Whitey, what would be your view on bringing that total down? The 8 times more likely to commit murder?

No point banging on about that number unless you see a way of stopping it?

Obviously shooting them or chocking them to death will only create more violence..

Education/fair employment/banning guns/better housing/better health?

Would they be the best way forward? or just continue with the current set up and hope for the best?

8 times more likely to be murdered would be a more accurate description of the problem

I'm in the middle of something right now but will respond later.

For a man "in the middle of something right now" you sure posted a lot without answering the question.

I was looking back, thinking, I've missed his response  ;D

So you're asking 2 separate questions....(1) .how do you fix society? (2) how do you fix policing?

I'll answer #2 first

Hire more Black officers

Hire/recruit civilian "ride alongs"-both paid and unpaid

Mandatory use of body cams

Significant de-escalation training

Change the rules of engagement when it comes to using your service revolver

Weeding out and firing of "bad apples"

Change in hiring practices-more college graduates and people with backgrounds in social services

Mandatory community participation/engagement-eg one day a week


Now you could do ALL that and still most likely have 800 people murdered in Chicago this year. The 2 problems are interconnected but solving one won't automatically solve the other and vice versa

So then we come to question #1-how do you fix a broken society?

That's the hard one because (IMO) some people are simply beyond redemption. Focus on the ones that you have a chance of "saving" from the streets before it's too late

I'd mandate very town in America provide housing for non violent inner city residents who want to relocate.

I'd pay for it by applying among other things a 1% sales tax in every Residential real estate transaction in the town

I would establish an investment fund to invest in inner cities funded by a wealth tax of 1% in everyone making more than $500K. I would have the largest companies in the country provide me with finance whiz kids free of charge to administer it-zero fraud, zero waste, zero corruption

I would charge a 1% tax in every car costing more than $50K to provide good, safe and free public transport in inner cities.

I would change the drug laws to decriminalize low level drug offenses

I would train up non violent prisoners on basic carpentry, plumbing and electrics and have an army of people available fix up PEOPLE's houses at low or no cost

I would force companies to bring back manufacturing jobs to these neighborhoods eg companies  provide equipment to the Federal government. Eg the military exclusively wear New Balance sneakers and every single pair is made here in the states to the best of my knowledge. Having the government pay an extra $5 per pair of sneakers is a whole lot cheaper than paying to police and incarcerate someone with nothing to do than hang around the streets

I could go on and on and on, but that would be a good start
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 13, 2020, 07:27:52 AM
There are some immediate fixes and they need to be universal across all states, that's the proposals you'd highlighted at the start of your post, I don't see much wrong with them..

The second one is the hardest as it's going to take decades and multiple presidents to push those social reforms through, and we've seen in the past that a new president will scrap previous policies to suit his own agenda.

The one thing you've left out is health, I understand the complexity of trying a NHS model in the states, Christ even here it's falling apart at times, but it's a god send and my family are reaping the benefits of it at the minute... that question or attempt to fix it is also barrier, but certainly if you're creating more jobs through the points you raised it will generate more money thus creating a better chance to have health insurance..

Outside looking in America just looks so divided, not just through race but the haves and have nots, the gap is getting wider.

I've friends that have done extremely well for themselves in the states, and the job opportunities their kids have got will set them up for life, two of their kids are working in Wall Street, the other still at college, so it still looks like the land of opportunity but I'd say that's the lucky ones.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 12:14:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 09:12:36 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 08:38:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 08:23:45 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 07:53:07 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 07:29:09 PM
Quote from: Chief on August 12, 2020, 06:45:16 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 12, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
Why would we do that?

All of this stuff is interconnected

How is police discrimination against the black community, and crime rates within the black community linked?

Your hardly making the racist argument that the latter justifies the former are you?

Not at all

Keep in mind in a city like Chicago 20% of all officers are black and the Chief is Black. For all we know the officer who shot the gunman last Sunday was black

If an officer is responding to a 911 call in what is deemed/defined (by statistics) to be a high crime area, he or she has a much greater likelihood of encountering a suspect who is armed (and willing to shoot)  than they would be  in a rich area where they are called to help get a cat out of a tree.

So what you guys refer to as "discrimination" in many cases may not be discrimination at all. They are errors or misjudgments caused by poor training or poor judgement erercized in extremely Tense and  life threatening situations

Chicago is so dangerous, Spike Lee coined the phrase Chiraq. More people were murdered in this ONE city in the last 5 years, than were murdered during the 30 years of conflict of The Troubles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gq.com/story/chi-raq-controversy-spike-lee/amp

Doesn't explain Rodney King, George Floyd or the countless other blatant acts of violent rascism by police against African Americans.

To be clear Whitey - black people aren't making this stuff up or misunderstanding it in any way shape or form.

They see incidents for what they are - occasionally it's  well intentioned yet tragic mistakes by honest cops - but more often dirty violent racism

Yes-I completely agree and there are bad apples who never should have been let in to begin with or should have been kicked out once they were in.....no reasonable person would dispute that. Ang doing forward hopefully we'll see more and more of them kicked out

And Black people absolutely have every right to feel aggrieved for how they have been treated by certain elements of law enforcement.....no can can dispute that either

But for white liberals (who would $hit themselves 10 times over if they even had to even walk through one of these neighborhoods) to start calling for the police to be either defunded or disbanded is lunacy of the highest order. That's not what the Black community wants.....that's what THEY  want

Some of these besieged communities actually want MORE police

And for people like Eamonn or Sid or whoever start cherry picking  incidents involving the police  to create  a narrative, how is that any different from a white person cherry picking incidents of Black criminality to also create a narrative

There are 20,000,000 traffic stops in the United States every year and 99.99999% of those pass without incident. The likes of Eamonn and Sid use the 0.000001% to tar every police officer with a label that is not only very divisive, but is also becoming very dangerous

Listen - I can't claim to speak for the black community, and would never try to.

The best I can do is analogise to here when the RUC was disbanded - it was a great thing. Fresh start for all - don't get me wrong, some of the ancient distrust lingers - but it's a vast improvement.

I can only think a wholesale reform such as that would be a good way forward in America too.

Give it whatever label you want, but new forces with ombudsman's and policing boards made up of community representatives would have least give formal redress to grievances.



Absolutely agree with everything you say, but the RUC analogy is somewhat inaccurate

Many of the inner city communities are virtual war zones with Black people shooting Black people day in and day out. Chicago will have close to 800 murders this year alone

The cops are being asked to step in the middle and play peacemaker and not alone do they get little support from the community, but they often get dogs abuse after having put  their lives in danger-just look at the videos of what occurred last Sunday in Englewood

Yes, there are bad cops and crooked cops, but isolated incidents get sensationalized by people with other agendas to push.

Isolated incidents that actually occur or that happen to be recorded? How many bad or corrupt or covered-up incidents occur for every one that is recorded and makes it to youtube?

I agree with many of your suggestions on your other post BTW on how to start addressing the root causes.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 05:24:55 PM
There are certain people, we'll call them 'unionists,' who think that any discrimination suffered by catholics prior to or during the Troubles, was self-inflicted. They argue that catholics chose to isolate themselves from the state, setting up their own education system, and refusing to work because they were feckless and lazy, as well as violent. Meanwhile the "gallant RUC" did a dangerous job in dangerous circumstances and how dare anyone criticize anything they did.  They were so brave, so heroic, that any criticism of the force was unpatriotic and inappropriate.

Sound familiar?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 07:40:21 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on August 13, 2020, 05:24:55 PM
There are certain people, we'll call them 'unionists,' who think that any discrimination suffered by catholics prior to or during the Troubles, was self-inflicted. They argue that catholics chose to isolate themselves from the state, setting up their own education system, and refusing to work because they were feckless and lazy, as well as violent. Meanwhile the "gallant RUC" did a dangerous job in dangerous circumstances and how dare anyone criticize anything they did.  They were so brave, so heroic, that any criticism of the force was unpatriotic and inappropriate.

Sound familiar?
we should change this threads name to the uk  polIcing crisis .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?

I think you need to expand on your attempt at equivalency.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

Had you not heard that nick name? I thought it was quite clever

Did you know if you mis-pronounce her name it's a form of racism and also passive aggressive

She must have been right during the debates about poor Joe being a racist, because he sure as hell doesn't know how to pronounce it correctly

(I actually wasn't going to use the nickname until I saw my crazy lefty cousin accuse Pence of racism for mispronouncing her name. I figured I give all you lefties something real to get agitated about)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.
of course she can there's nothing holding you back in this country , thanks for acknowledging Sid .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

Had you not heard that nick name? I thought it was quite clever

Did you know if you mis-pronounce her name it's a form of racism and also passive aggressive

She must have been right during the debates about poor Joe being a racist, because he sure as hell doesn't know how to pronounce it correctly

No, I hadn't heard that nickname or the precious, white grievance nonsense about mispronouncing her name.

Must be mixing with or listening to the wrong people I guess.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.
of course she can there's nothing holding you back in this country , thanks for acknowledging Sid .

Learn about the history and present of America.

The individual achievements of brilliant black people like Harris and Obama in no way negates the fact that America has always been a white supremacist ethnostate.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.

Haha-Sid, I have to laugh.

You're upset about me using a stupid nickname but not upset about Kamala prosecuting low level marijuana offenses among the Black community while laughing about her own use of marijuana

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2020, 08:54:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

He's talking out of his hole as well as per usual.

QuoteWhile I do not believe federal dollars should go to police departments violating people's rights or turning to violence as the first resort, I do not support defunding police. The better answer is to give police departments the resources they need to implement meaningful reforms, and to condition other federal dollars on completing those reforms.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

Had you not heard that nick name? I thought it was quite clever

Did you know if you mis-pronounce her name it's a form of racism and also passive aggressive

She must have been right during the debates about poor Joe being a racist, because he sure as hell doesn't know how to pronounce it correctly

No, I hadn't heard that nickname or the precious, white grievance nonsense about mispronouncing her name.

Must be mixing with or listening to the wrong people I guess.

You must not be on Twitter

All this faux outrage stuff is on there

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/tucker-carlsons-mangling-of-kamala-harriss-name-was-all-about-disrespect/2020/08/12/ea573d06-dca7-11ea-809e-b8be57ba616e_story.html%3foutputType=amp

I couldn't help but make fun of people who are so absurd in what they're outraged about

If you are outraged about how Kamalas name is pronounced, but not outraged about people getting carjacked at gunpoint in your own city, then I think we are going to see this election become a heck of a lot closer than people think
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:58:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.
of course she can there's nothing holding you back in this country , thanks for acknowledging Sid .

Learn about the history and present of America.

The individual achievements of brilliant black people like Harris and Obama in no way negates the fact that America has always been a white supremacist ethnostate.
i know the history and unlike you I have history here .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.

Haha-Sid, I have to laugh.

You're upset about me using a stupid nickname but not upset about Kamala prosecuting low level marijuana offenses among the Black community while laughing about her own use of marijuana
I object to your consistent white supremacism and racist dog whistles against Kamala Harris.

That's what I object to.

The war on drugs is systematically racist.

America is a white supremacist society. The term "law and order" which you use constantly, is a racist dog whistle.

The fact is that black people and especially black women cannot and could not advance in the US legal and political system without being seen to be tough on crime, even in California.

Which only goes to prove the white supremacist nature of the system.

But things are slowly changing because Black Lives Matter, black people in general and their allies of other ethnicities have had enough of white supremacism ruling the system.

And people like you f**king hate that.





Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 09:07:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:50:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.

Haha-Sid, I have to laugh.

You're upset about me using a stupid nickname but not upset about Kamala prosecuting low level marijuana offenses among the Black community while laughing about her own use of marijuana
I object to your consistent white supremacism and racist dog whistles against Kamala Harris.

That's what I object to.

The war on drugs is systematically racist.

America is a white supremacist society. The term "law and order" which you use constantly, is a racist dog whistle.

The fact is that black people and especially black women cannot and could not advance in the US legal and political system without being seen to be tough on crime, even in California.

Which only goes to prove the white supremacist nature of the system.

But things are slowly changing because Black Lives Matter, black people in general and their allies of other ethnicities have had enough of white supremacism ruling the system.

And people like you f**king hate that.

Haha-The BLM protesters in Chicago said that looting is a form of reparations

Another "spokesperson" said that even if fired upon the police should not be allowed fire back

Do you support those positions
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:58:43 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:48:53 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:45:21 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 13, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on August 13, 2020, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.
hitler , Mussolini, Stalin , nazis , stormtroopers, gestapo all good though?
All are deeply appropriate and historically accurate comparisons for Trump, his goon squad and the murderous American police.

"Kamaltoe" is an pathetic insult used by a moronic white supremacist sc**bag who hates the fact that a strong and highly intelligent black woman can make a US presidential ticket.
of course she can there's nothing holding you back in this country , thanks for acknowledging Sid .

Learn about the history and present of America.

The individual achievements of brilliant black people like Harris and Obama in no way negates the fact that America has always been a white supremacist ethnostate.
i know the history and unlike you I have history here .

Fake history is a form of history I suppose
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 09:12:06 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2020, 08:54:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

He's talking out of his hole as well as per usual.

QuoteWhile I do not believe federal dollars should go to police departments violating people's rights or turning to violence as the first resort, I do not support defunding police. The better answer is to give police departments the resources they need to implement meaningful reforms, and to condition other federal dollars on completing those reforms.

She actually applauded the Mayor of LA for defunding the LAPD to the tune of $150 M on live TV

https://youtu.be/nOmP6f02HHg

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
And what about Joe? Or are you just focusing on the black woman for some particular reason?  ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on August 13, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
And what about Joe? Or are you just focusing on the black woman for some particular reason?  ::)

Are you in some way challenged in the reading or comprehension department

I said BOTH of them were for defunding

You quite rudely and falsely claimed she wasn't

And then I gave you an example of where she was for defunding with her own words
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on August 13, 2020, 10:31:57 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:56:06 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 13, 2020, 07:48:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 07:36:09 PM
https://cwbchicago.com/2020/08/carjackings-today-in-wicker-park-logan-square-and-ones-caught-on-camera.html

If this stuff keeps up it really going to help Trump

Both Joe and Kamaltoe are in favor of defunding the police

Kamaltoe.

Are you for f**king real?

Embarrassing.

Had you not heard that nick name? I thought it was quite clever

Did you know if you mis-pronounce her name it's a form of racism and also passive aggressive

She must have been right during the debates about poor Joe being a racist, because he sure as hell doesn't know how to pronounce it correctly

No, I hadn't heard that nickname or the precious, white grievance nonsense about mispronouncing her name.

Must be mixing with or listening to the wrong people I guess.

You must not be on Twitter

All this faux outrage stuff is on there

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/tucker-carlsons-mangling-of-kamala-harriss-name-was-all-about-disrespect/2020/08/12/ea573d06-dca7-11ea-809e-b8be57ba616e_story.html%3foutputType=amp

I couldn't help but make fun of people who are so absurd in what they're outraged about

If you are outraged about how Kamalas name is pronounced, but not outraged about people getting carjacked at gunpoint in your own city, then I think we are going to see this election become a heck of a lot closer than people think

No, I'm not on Twitter.

I've no interest in hit and run, soundbite "debate".
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on August 14, 2020, 12:18:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on August 13, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 13, 2020, 09:25:18 PM
And what about Joe? Or are you just focusing on the black woman for some particular reason?  ::)

Are you in some way challenged in the reading or comprehension department

I said BOTH of them were for defunding

You quite rudely and falsely claimed she wasn't

And then I gave you an example of where she was for defunding with her own words

But BOTH of them aren't for defunding ....... and Harris isn't the VP nominee.

Biden is and he's stated on record that he doesn't support it.

So yes - you are talking out of your hole.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on March 12, 2021, 08:44:34 PM
Family of George Floyd receive 27m settlement with police ..
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:57:11 AM
1000 Ohio State students staged a riot, flipped cars over, and damaged property following a football game on Saturday.
Police moved in with military gear, fired flash-bang grenades, rubber bullets, and made hundreds of arrests. The right wing media has been giving the event blanket coverage.

I'm kidding. The cops didn't do a damn thing other than go for a joyride in their helicopter. No arrests were made. One student who was trying to fend off rioters and preventing them from doing further damage to her upside-down car called 911 only to be told that the police would move into the area "when safe to come to the scene." The only coverage I can find of this is in the campus newspaper and a few local news outlets.

No peeping at the photo. Can you guess the color of the skin of the rioters?

https://www.thelantern.com/2021/04/students-whose-cars-were-flipped-and-destroyed-during-chitt-fest-riot-ask-for-accountability/?fbclid=IwAR25bXaKq6f7xt5E0RbMMOWX-YIPJPA0l-xxR6v3XULPO9hTwlJ8nmYqb_4
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:59:21 AM
Cops in Columbus put four rounds into 15-year-old Makiyah Bryant literally while the Chauvin verdict was handed down. And then proceeded to shout "Blue lives matter" at the neighborhood witnesses.

Why were the cops there? Because she called 911 while being assaulted.

"Police in Columbus, Ohio went on a helicopter joyride late [at night on the 16th], flying over only the parts of the city where the population is mostly black, and spelling out "CPD" with the flight path."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzNFJt1VoBEBSvu?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:01:49 AM
Cops Tackled a Grandma With Dementia Picking Flowers, Bodycam Footage Shows

The officer grabbed the 73-year-old woman, threw her to the grass, and twisted her arms behind her back.
EO
By Emma Ockerman

A 73-year-old grandmother of nine was picking wildflowers on the side of the road in Loveland, Colorado, last summer when a local cop got out of his patrol vehicle and told her to stop—beginning a police encounter that ultimately left her with broken bones, bruised, and traumatized.

Loveland Police Officer Austin Hopp had been driving behind Karen Garner with his overhead lights on because she was accused of shoplifting from a nearby Walmart. But Garner did not appear to notice, according to body camera footage published by Garner's attorney Wednesday.

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Garner has dementia and sensory aphasia, an inability to understand spoken and written speech, according to a federal civil rights lawsuit filed on her behalf this week against the city of Loveland and three officers involved in Garner's arrest.

Hopp asked Garner why she didn't stop after he activated his lights and siren, at which point Garner gave him a blank expression, said something unintelligible, and started to move away.

"No, no, no," Hopp said, according to bodycam footage.


Hopp then grabbed the 80-pound woman, threw her to the grass, and twisted her arms behind her back, bodycam footage shows. Garner was still clutching a handful of wildflowers. A second cop, Daria Jalali, arrived within minutes and assisted in the arrest.

Then, despite Garner's evident distress and small stature, Hopp pushed her left arm "painfully upward,"  according to body camera footage and the lawsuit. Police repeatedly threw her on the ground, and hog-tied her on the side of the road—a controversial restraint that's been banned by some police departments. Once her feet were bound, Jalali, Hopp, and their on-scene supervisor, Sgt. Philip Metzler, lifted her into the back of a police vehicle, according to the lawsuit.

"I'm going home," Garner cried repeatedly.

News
The Cop Who Pepper-Sprayed Lt. Caron Nazario Has Been Fired
EMMA OCKERMAN
04.12.21

As a result of the incident, Garner was left with a dislocated shoulder, a fractured humerus bone, and a sprained wrist, the lawsuit alleges. She was covered with bruises by the time she arrived at a hospital—although she wasn't taken to the medical facility until several hours after she was first stopped by police, according to the lawsuit.

After the lawsuit was filed Wednesday and covered by local media outlets including KUSA, an NBC affiliate in Denver, the Loveland Police Department said in a statement that it'd investigate the encounter. Officials added they'd only heard of the incident this week, having not received any prior complaints. In the meantime, the department has placed Hopp on administrative leave, and reassigned Jalali and Metzler to administrative duties, according to the statement posted on the department's Facebook page.

Karen Garner has dementia and sensory aphasia, an inability to understand spoken and written speech, according to a federal civil rights lawsuit filed on her behalf.
KAREN GARNER HAS DEMENTIA AND SENSORY APHASIA, AN INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND SPOKEN AND WRITTEN SPEECH, ACCORDING TO A FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS LAWSUIT FILED ON HER BEHALF.

But Garner's family wants to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone ever again—and they're hoping for significant changes in personnel, leadership, and policy at the Loveland Police Department.

"This is not a 'single bad apple' type of scenario," Sarah Schielke, Garner's attorney in the lawsuit, told VICE News. "This is a systemic, cultural, deeply ingrained, coming-down-from-leadership type of attitude, where this is not community policing—it's community terrorism, practically."

She added: "If somebody's dumb enough, in their mind, to not capitulate, they're going to pay for it. Even if you're an elderly disabled lady."

While Garner's children were doing their best to keep an eye on her, she slipped out to Walmart the afternoon of her arrest, Schielke said. Later, Garner wound up wandering out of the store without paying for Pepsi, a candy bar, a T-shirt, and some stain-removing wipes—worth less than $14 altogether.

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Walmart employees stopped her and took the items back. They then refused her attempt to pay and called the police, according to the lawsuit.

Casey Staheli, a spokesperson for Walmart, said in a statement to VICE News: "We stopped the customer after noticing her attempt to take merchandise from the store without paying for it. To protect the safety of our people, the police were called only after Ms. Garner became physical with an associate."

Hopp found Garner a few blocks away from the Walmart as she was walking home. When Garner appeared confused at his questions, he said to her: "You just left Walmart. Do you need to be arrested right now?" Then he tackled her.

At one point, a concerned citizen stopped and asked the officers, "Do you have to use that much aggression?"

"What are you doing? Get out of here," Hopp said, according to body camera footage.

The man, who had pulled over to the side of the road, asked to know who Hopp's sergeant was, saying he had seen the cop throw "that little kid." (Garner is 5 feet tall, according to the lawsuit.)

"She just stole from Walmart and refused to stop, refused to listen to lawful orders, and to fight me," Hopp told the man. "This is what happens when you fight the police. I have to use force to safely detain her. That's what this is. This isn't just some random act of aggression."

Later, when Metzler arrived and the officers were recounting the events of the arrest together, Hopp admitted he "struggled" with Garner.

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"You're a little muddy, dude," Metzler said, according to body camera footage.

"A little bloody, a little muddy, that's how it works," Jalali responded.

The officers were referring to Garner's blood.

She was taken to jail and charged with theft of less than $50, obstructing a peace officer, and resisting arrest, according to the Loveland Reporter-Herald, though the Larimer County District Attorney agreed to dismiss the case in August 2020.

The intense encounter with police has still left its scars, though. Garner's children have told Schielke that she's able to find some peace playing solitaire, listening to music, or doing crafts at a memory care facility, but has otherwise become withdrawn and mistrustful. They noted that in the past, Garner was the ultimate, crafty home-maker, who loved to go to concerts and play cards.

"What little freedom and happiness Ms. Garner enjoyed in her life as an elderly adult with declining mental health was, on June 26, 2020, recklessly and deliberately obliterated by the Loveland Police Department," the lawsuit states.

Tom Hacker, a spokesman for the Loveland Police Department, said the agency's professional standards unit will examine the incident. "There's no record associated with this event, no frame of video, no shred of any evidence that won't be looked at pretty thoroughly," he told VICE News.

It was unclear if the officers named in the lawsuit had attorneys who could speak on their behalf; the local police union didn't immediately respond to VICE News' request for comment.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:36:32 AM
Video Footage of Tyrell Wilson Killing Released – as Same Danville Officer Charged in Another Death

By Joe Fitzgerald Rodriguez

Only a day after former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin was convicted of murdering George Floyd, the East Bay town of Danville is facing its own reckoning over two police killings.

Andrew Hall, a police officer in Danville, which contracts law enforcement services from the Contra Costa County Sheriff, has been charged with felony voluntary manslaughter and felony assault with a semi-automatic firearm in the 2018 killing of Laudemer Arboleda, the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office announced Wednesday.

Hall's shooting of Arboleda was "without lawful excuse or justification," the District Attorney's Office said in a statement. If found guilty, Hall faces a possible 22-year prison sentence and would be barred from being a peace officer.

"Ultimately, I'm confident a jury of officer Hall's peers will review this case ... and ultimately hold officer Hall accountable," District Attorney Diana Becton said at a press conference Wednesday. "The unnecessary death of Mister Arboleda underscores the need for law enforcement personnel to better understand those who are suffering from mental illness."

An attorney for Arboleda's mother, prominent civil rights attorney John Burris, supported the charges – but he said serious harm may have come from waiting more than two years to make them.

"In this instance, the delay in prosecuting Hall is particularly hurtful because Hall recently shot and killed a homeless man, Tyrell Wilson, under very questionable circumstances," Burris said. "Wilson could be alive if Hall were prosecuted earlier."

Just hours before the DA's charging announcement, the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office released grisly, graphic video footage of the incident Burris was referring to: Hall shooting 32-year-old Tyrell Wilson, a homeless man whose family says suffered from schizophrenia, on March 11 of this year.

The newly released video — compiled from footage taken by Hall's body camera, citizen dash cam footage and stationary city-operated cameras — shows Hall exiting his police vehicle and making contact with Wilson before pursuing him on foot across the broad, busy intersection of Sycamore Valley Road and Camino Ramon, adjacent to the I-680 interchange in Danville, then shooting and killing him in the middle of the intersection, all in under one minute.

Due to its extremely graphic nature, and out of consideration for our communities, KQED has decided not to embed the video of Wilson's killing. For those who wish to watch it in full, it is available here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J32OpuhBCFM

The video begins with Hall's body cam footage, which was activated as he approached the intersection in response to 911 calls about someone throwing rocks off the Sycamore Valley Road overpass onto the I-680 freeway below.

Hall gets out of his vehicle and calls out to Wilson, who is walking into the intersection, saying, "Hey buddy, come here real quick! Come here!"

Wilson refuses and continues walking away from Hall across the intersection, saying, "Who are you?"

Hall says, "You're jaywalking now ... We're not playing this game dude."

After continuing to pursue Wilson on foot into the intersection, Hall identifies himself as "Officer Andrew Hall of Danville Police," to which Wilson responds, "From where? Authority of what?"

Hall closes the distance between them as Wilson stands still for a moment, before Wilson begins walking backward, away from Hall, holding a paper bag in one hand and what appears to be a small knife in the other.

"Don't f**king touch me," Wilson says as he begins to walk backward. "Touch me and see what's up."

Hall yells, "Drop the knife" as Wilson stops in the street and says, "No ... Kill me," while tapping his chest.

Wilson then takes a couple slow, halting steps forward. Hall yells, "Drop the knife" twice more, and shoots Wilson once. Wilson immediately collapses. Responding emergency personnel work to save his life, repeating, "Stay with us, stay with us," as they roll him onto his side. Wilson died a week later.

The Contra Costa Sheriff's Office framed the footage as exonerating Hall.

"Any loss of life is tragic, but the community can now see the truth," said Contra Costa County Sheriff David Livingston in a statement. "Tyrell Wilson did in fact threaten the lives of passing motorists by throwing objects, possibly rocks, from the overpass down onto Highway 680. He was found with numerous rocks in his jacket pocket. He did pull a knife on Officer Hall. He did threaten Officer Hall. And he did start advancing toward Officer Hall in the middle of a major intersection. Officers are forced to make split second decisions to protect themselves and the public and that's what happened here."

Officers are generally trained to see a suspect with a knife in close quarters as a deadly threat. But a newly enacted California use-of-force standard under Assembly Bill 392 says officers should only use deadly force when other options aren't feasible.

Alternatives to deadly force could include what the bill calls "tactical repositioning" to create time and distance between an officer and a person representing a threat.

Hall began working for the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office in 2013. Just a year later, he was accused of excessive force by a person incarcerated at the Martinez Detention Facility, who alleged Hall "brutally attacked" him, and was subsequently beaten by other deputies. The Contra Costa Sheriff's investigation exonerated Hall of any wrongdoing, and the investigation notes that injuries sustained by the prisoner may have been pre-existing, though reinjured in the fight with deputies.

In 2018, Hall, who became a contract officer for the town of Danville, responded to a call of a "strange individual lurking around" property near Cottage Lane and Laurel Drive in Danville. Officers tried to pull over Arboleda, who stopped twice but then took off again when officers got out of their cars, according to previous statements on the shooting released by the Sheriff's Office.

Video of Arboleda's death was obtained in 2019 by the California Reporting Project, a coalition of news organizations (including KQED) seeking records from law enforcement agencies under a new state transparency law.

The footage showed Hall shot and killed Laudemer Arboleda as Arboleda attempted to drive through a gap between two police cars.

State policing standards generally advise officers against shooting into moving vehicles, warning that doing so carries a great potential risk of death not only for the vehicle occupants, but police and bystanders. In particular, state policing standards warn against officers placing themselves in the direct path of a moving vehicle, as Hall appeared to do when he shot into Arboleda's vehicle.

Hall was placed on administrative leave after the Wilson shooting.

Tara Siler and Alex Emslie contributed to this report.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 07:37:12 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/s960x960/174675098_1136218906883148_4570011388313129267_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=7BM-zerNJw0AX9YeyMj&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&tp=7&oh=cd1385b0d3fe27e7c0c5a6e588c63818&oe=60A57336)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
That case with the 13 year old is the definition of a split second life and death decision that the cop needed to make in order to go home to his family that night

In a dark alley at 2:30 AM the kid (1) tossed the gun (to the blindside) (2) spun around and (3) raised his hands in less than a second having previously ignored numerous requests to drop the weapon

Even the BLM groups are being very careful about that one
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
That case with the 13 year old is the definition of a split second life and death decision that the cop needed to make in order to go home to his family that night

In a dark alley at 2:30 AM the kid (1) tossed the gun (to the blindside) (2) spun around and (3) raised his hands in less than a second having previously ignored numerous requests to drop the weapon

Even the BLM groups are being very careful about that one

I agree to a point, but if I'm professionally trained to use a gun and be in those situations then its questionable whether they are right. Either way, running around as a 13 year old with a gun is baffling!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Taylor on April 22, 2021, 09:33:16 AM
has it been mentioned here about the 16 year old girl who was shot by the cops?

While only some video footage has been released it looks as though she was stabbing another girl or in the process of stabbing a girl.

Now that is a split second decision - should a taser have been used?
Should the cop have shot a non lethal part on the body?

Is it even possible to differentiate in such a high pressure scenario.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 09:24:14 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 08:15:56 AM
That case with the 13 year old is the definition of a split second life and death decision that the cop needed to make in order to go home to his family that night

In a dark alley at 2:30 AM the kid (1) tossed the gun (to the blindside) (2) spun around and (3) raised his hands in less than a second having previously ignored numerous requests to drop the weapon

Even the BLM groups are being very careful about that one

I agree to a point, but if I'm professionally trained to use a gun and be in those situations then its questionable whether they are right. Either way, running around as a 13 year old with a gun is baffling!

Well if he wasn't in the right he'll lose his job and get prosecuted (neither of which I think will happen)

Sadly 13 year olds involved in serious criminality has become the norm

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/caught-on-camera-children-arrested-for-attempted-carjackings-in-san-leandro/amp/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.

It's absolutely insane what the cops have to deal with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/juveniles-injured-gunfight-broke-12-year-olds-birthday/story%3fid=77182959
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: trailer on April 22, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.

It's absolutely insane what the cops have to deal with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/juveniles-injured-gunfight-broke-12-year-olds-birthday/story%3fid=77182959

Ban Guns and a lot of America's ills will be solved.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 22, 2021, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.

It's absolutely insane what the cops have to deal with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/juveniles-injured-gunfight-broke-12-year-olds-birthday/story%3fid=77182959

Ban Guns and a lot of America's ills will be solved.

Unfortunately there is zero chance of that ever happening.

Its like these people are wired wrong or something.

There are more guns that people at this point in the US.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 01:39:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 22, 2021, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.

It's absolutely insane what the cops have to deal with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/juveniles-injured-gunfight-broke-12-year-olds-birthday/story%3fid=77182959

Ban Guns and a lot of America's ills will be solved.

Unfortunately there is zero chance of that ever happening.

Its like these people are wired wrong or something.

There are more guns that people at this point in the US.

Asking people to give up their guns would be like asking the Unionists to join up for a United Ireland

There should be a national registry of guns and severe penalties for people who don't follow the rules but of course even that won't happen. In some states you can buy a gun at a flea market or yard sale without any ID or background check....absolute insanity
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
Can the policy be at least one gun per adult who passes a phycology check?

No semi automatics, why I'm even writing this!!!???

Yes I can agree on hunting guns (not that I agree on shooting animals) personal protection important too, but the background checks need enforcing.

Heavy fines and jail time for those with unauthorised guns and an amnesty for handing in guns, they go straight to a place to be crushed!

Walking around with a gun visible is the strangest of sights, pointing guns at people (like those clowns during that march) needs to come with a fine jail and loss of ever owning a gun.

It won't happen overnight but gradually this will at the very least tidy things up.

Also increase the tax on ammo, hike it up da f**k and make it so expensive that having a gun is useless and only good for throwing at people!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 02:09:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
Can the policy be at least one gun per adult who passes a phycology check?

No semi automatics, why I'm even writing this!!!???

Yes I can agree on hunting guns (not that I agree on shooting animals) personal protection important too, but the background checks need enforcing.

Heavy fines and jail time for those with unauthorised guns and an amnesty for handing in guns, they go straight to a place to be crushed!

Walking around with a gun visible is the strangest of sights, pointing guns at people (like those clowns during that march) needs to come with a fine jail and loss of ever owning a gun.

It won't happen overnight but gradually this will at the very least tidy things up.

Also increase the tax on ammo, hike it up da f**k and make it so expensive that having a gun is useless and only good for throwing at people!

What you're saying makes sense but it would never pass

It's a cultural thing.....unless you live here it's really hard to understand

Eg the guy who cuts my hair (and is a Democrat) has something like 20 guns
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hound on April 22, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live
Agree completely about the resisting arrest bit. You just can't do it. The guy shot by the female officer was asking to be tazed by his actions.

He certainly wasn't asking to be killed though. I believe she made a mistake and did not mean to shoot him with a gun. But she still did. So having looked at the last few days of the Chauvin trial, I would say the 10-15 years for manslaughter would be the right verdict for her.

Also wouldn't complain about the 16 year-old with the knife getting shot. Clearly aiming for a non-lethal part of the body is not feasible as it's too risky. Taser might have been an option, but the police officer looked a bit too far away for that and there was immediate danger for a potential victim. Obviously a lot more detail would be required to evaluate properly, but I'd be leaning towards the police did the right thing and possibly saved a life.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 22, 2021, 03:12:18 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 02:09:14 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 01:51:43 PM
Can the policy be at least one gun per adult who passes a phycology check?

No semi automatics, why I'm even writing this!!!???

Yes I can agree on hunting guns (not that I agree on shooting animals) personal protection important too, but the background checks need enforcing.

Heavy fines and jail time for those with unauthorised guns and an amnesty for handing in guns, they go straight to a place to be crushed!

Walking around with a gun visible is the strangest of sights, pointing guns at people (like those clowns during that march) needs to come with a fine jail and loss of ever owning a gun.

It won't happen overnight but gradually this will at the very least tidy things up.

Also increase the tax on ammo, hike it up da f**k and make it so expensive that having a gun is useless and only good for throwing at people!

What you're saying makes sense but it would never pass

It's a cultural thing.....unless you live here it's really hard to understand

Eg the guy who cuts my hair (and is a Democrat) has something like 20 guns

I married into a family from out west. The immediate in-laws are fairly run of the mill, centrist people. But I've been at family gatherings, where the spouses and in-laws of cousins start to come into the picture, and that's where you see it. I've no issue with the hunting and the camo fashion, but where I start to get uncomfortable is with the open-carry pistols on their waist, with kids climbing all over them!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Armagh18 on April 22, 2021, 03:13:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 01:39:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 22, 2021, 01:30:56 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 01:25:34 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 22, 2021, 12:46:12 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 22, 2021, 12:26:58 PM
America's gun laws are the root cause of this problem. Every Cop thinks that at every single small call out someone is carrying. If they take away the threat of the gun from most of these Cop shootings, they will eliminate a lot of these deaths.

It's absolutely insane what the cops have to deal with

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/juveniles-injured-gunfight-broke-12-year-olds-birthday/story%3fid=77182959

Ban Guns and a lot of America's ills will be solved.

Unfortunately there is zero chance of that ever happening.

Its like these people are wired wrong or something.

There are more guns that people at this point in the US.

Asking people to give up their guns would be like asking the Unionists to join up for a United Ireland

There should be a national registry of guns and severe penalties for people who don't follow the rules but of course even that won't happen. In some states you can buy a gun at a flea market or yard sale without any ID or background check....absolute insanity
Something that is in their best interest but they are too pig headed to see it? Sounds about right!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 22, 2021, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 22, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live
Agree completely about the resisting arrest bit. You just can't do it. The guy shot by the female officer was asking to be tazed by his actions.

He certainly wasn't asking to be killed though. I believe she made a mistake and did not mean to shoot him with a gun. But she still did. So having looked at the last few days of the Chauvin trial, I would say the 10-15 years for manslaughter would be the right verdict for her.

Also wouldn't complain about the 16 year-old with the knife getting shot. Clearly aiming for a non-lethal part of the body is not feasible as it's too risky. Taser might have been an option, but the police officer looked a bit too far away for that and there was immediate danger for a potential victim. Obviously a lot more detail would be required to evaluate properly, but I'd be leaning towards the police did the right thing and possibly saved a life.

I've a close work colleague who is retired NYPD. He reckons its absolutely plausible that a gun could be mistakenly drawn for a taser in the heat of the moment. And he is about as far from a reactionary, hard-right cop as you could get.

Which begs the question why are they not made and operated in such a way that might prevent such a tragic mix-up?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 03:45:17 PM
Would they unlock the safety (like I know what I'm talking about!) on a taser like they do on a gun?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hound on April 22, 2021, 04:02:55 PM
The barrell of the gun was very square (or rectangular/cuboid) judging by the video, which gave it a taser-like look.

However, the taser gun is bright yellow, which you'd think would usually be a big giveaway! Her eyeline must've been on the suspect all the time and never glanced down.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 22, 2021, 05:00:47 PM
You can see the yellow taser in that photo. Looks just like a gun.

And yes, I would think they're trained to grab the gun and aim while keeping their eyes on the suspect.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live

If a cop is screaming "stop resisting" it's not evidence that the victim is resisting. It's one of the tactics they use to trump up charges. They'll throw your hands behind your back before you've had time to realize what's going on, and claim that you're resisting whether you are or not. There are states where you can be arrested on the absurd charge of "resisting arrest" and no other charge.

There's also a video where they took a guy in, tied him to a chair, tortured him with a tazer, and screamed "stop resisting" at him.

Police dog chewing your leg off? "Stop resisting!"
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 22, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live
Agree completely about the resisting arrest bit. You just can't do it. The guy shot by the female officer was asking to be tazed by his actions.

He certainly wasn't asking to be killed though. I believe she made a mistake and did not mean to shoot him with a gun. But she still did. So having looked at the last few days of the Chauvin trial, I would say the 10-15 years for manslaughter would be the right verdict for her.

Also wouldn't complain about the 16 year-old with the knife getting shot. Clearly aiming for a non-lethal part of the body is not feasible as it's too risky. Taser might have been an option, but the police officer looked a bit too far away for that and there was immediate danger for a potential victim. Obviously a lot more detail would be required to evaluate properly, but I'd be leaning towards the police did the right thing and possibly saved a life.

She was being assaulted. It was her that called the cops. She was acting in self defense, which happens to be legal. If a knife is a weapon then she had a constitutionally protected right to bear it.

It's fairly obvious that the "right to bear arms" is in theory for everyone, but in practice it's for white people only because of the racist police system and the culture of porcine infallibility that props it up.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 22, 2021, 06:43:56 PM
Lol

Stabbing before and behind her and he says it's self defense
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on April 22, 2021, 06:44:56 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:55:16 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 22, 2021, 02:09:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live
Agree completely about the resisting arrest bit. You just can't do it. The guy shot by the female officer was asking to be tazed by his actions.

He certainly wasn't asking to be killed though. I believe she made a mistake and did not mean to shoot him with a gun. But she still did. So having looked at the last few days of the Chauvin trial, I would say the 10-15 years for manslaughter would be the right verdict for her.

Also wouldn't complain about the 16 year-old with the knife getting shot. Clearly aiming for a non-lethal part of the body is not feasible as it's too risky. Taser might have been an option, but the police officer looked a bit too far away for that and there was immediate danger for a potential victim. Obviously a lot more detail would be required to evaluate properly, but I'd be leaning towards the police did the right thing and possibly saved a life.

She was being assaulted. It was her that called the cops. She was acting in self defense, which happens to be legal. If a knife is a weapon then she had a constitutionally protected right to bear it.

It's fairly obvious that the "right to bear arms" is in theory for everyone, but in practice it's for white people only because of the racist police system and the culture of porcine infallibility that props it up.
complete bollox as usual google Peyton ham won't see much on cnn about him doesn't fit the narrative.
Cops aren't taking any chances whether we like it or not
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 07:39:13 PM
Columbus Ohio cops dressed like soldiers, in an armored car, wearing combat gear and carrying assault rifles, assault a teenage child who was complying with their instructions. They then arrested a man for (legally) filming the incident from his own house. In the process of the arrest thew threw him down on his face and dislocated his shoulder. They interned him for five days before charging him, and the city dropped the charges.

The event cost this innocent man his job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKzUt2Qzw08

Courts have repeatedly ruled that filming police on duty is a constitutionally protected act.

The ACLU is suing the police department.

"The lawsuit is the latest against the city's police division, including a federal lawsuit filed by a total of 26 people against the city over alleged civil rights violations by police during protests last summer."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2021/01/11/aclu-sues-columbus-police-after-man-arrested-recording-officers/6630973002/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 07:41:16 PM
Where are the 2A gun nuts who promised they'd rise up to overthrow any totalitarian regime that took over the USA?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Main Street on April 23, 2021, 12:12:19 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 05:49:10 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 22, 2021, 07:52:49 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 06:02:49 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/172491657_10219417892617911_3275603012802416354_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=E0GeO4eeW5QAX_kbNc2&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=1236fcea2472c4efa2c2f0e627b3e060&oe=60A80CA0)

This is bizarre in the extreme and something ill never understand about America and why it's allowed to happen.

The other thing I can't understand (and I'm not victim blaming here) is resisting arrest! If you are black and live in a society were the police are virtually allowed to do what they want, why would you resist arrest?

Though not resisting arrest will protect you either, seen footage of a young lad (13?) being chased, he dropped his gun (why he had a gun is another question), put his hands up but they shot him dead anyways.

It's a crazy place to live

If a cop is screaming "stop resisting" it's not evidence that the victim is resisting. It's one of the tactics they use to trump up charges. They'll throw your hands behind your back before you've had time to realize what's going on, and claim that you're resisting whether you are or not. There are states where you can be arrested on the absurd charge of "resisting arrest" and no other charge.

There's also a video where they took a guy in, tied him to a chair, tortured him with a tazer, and screamed "stop resisting" at him.

Police dog chewing your leg off? "Stop resisting!"
For the most part should a black person try to flee from an arrest, they're not resisting an arrest, they are resisting what inevitably happens to a black person after the arrest, after they're thrown into the grinder that is the US 'justice' system.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 23, 2021, 05:32:44 AM
The brave men in blue have decided to keep the people of Vacaville safe by beating the crap out of a 16 year-old child with autism who had the audacity to try to defend himself when an older kid picked a fight with him.

https://fox40.com/news/local-news/video-vacaville-police-officer-shoves-hits-teenage-boy-with-autism/

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 23, 2021, 06:02:59 AM
(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/176604859_1136531266851912_5093065648450555436_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=jp-SEpM_XdYAX90UUkU&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=7cf4b54ec033702c97a89bf1e2628d7d&oe=60A8DF08)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 23, 2021, 06:27:12 AM
DA charges Danville officer in deadly 2018 shooting of unarmed man

"Becton said her decision to charge Hall had nothing to do with the George Floyd case. She said the reason it took over two years to file charges against Hall is because of a "backlog of prior law enforcement involved fatal incidents my office is investigating."

https://www.ktvu.com/news/da-to-charge-danville-officer-with-deadly-2018-shooting-of-unarmed-man

If that's true, it means the cops are so out of control that the justice system can't cope with the sheer mountain of police criminality that's out there.

Update: He's turned himself in. The blackguard.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 23, 2021, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

The best political commentator is a guy called Michael Smerconish.  Definitely listen to his podcasts

On his show a couple of weeks ago he brought up that very point and iirc had an expert discuss it with him.

His argument was that it could end up like the George Zimmerman trial-prosecutor overreached and went for the bigger charge, when the lesser one would have brought almost identical jail time
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on April 24, 2021, 01:42:59 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

The underlying problems are money in politics (which gives the gun lobby the ability to overrule the 90% of people who support common sense gun laws) and the undemocratic nature of America's institutions, like the senate and the electoral college. These are issues that are being worked on quietly, but will take time to fix. Once they are, only then will we start to see some laws passed that actually reflect the will of the people. So it's not so much a case of "never," it's more like it's just a long haul.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 24, 2021, 07:02:29 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

This is very easy to explain.

It's a simple question of misinformation.

You are misinformed that second degree murder requires intent to take life.

It's that simple
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 24, 2021, 07:10:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 23, 2021, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

The best political commentator is a guy called Michael Smerconish.  Definitely listen to his podcasts

On his show a couple of weeks ago he brought up that very point and iirc had an expert discuss it with him.

His argument was that it could end up like the George Zimmerman trial-prosecutor overreached and went for the bigger charge, when the lesser one would have brought almost identical jail time

This is also very easy to explain.

It's a simple question of misinformation.

You are misinformed on the meaning of the following words; "best" and "expert".

I wouldn't be terribly enamoured by your understanding of a political commentator or the law and its practice.

Prosecutors in the Chauvin case didn't drop the lesser charge and just go for the higher one they left all 3 on the charge sheet and delivered all 3. If Chauvin's team want to find a technicality they need to find one on all 3 charges. His appeal prospects are not nil but they are very, very low. He has to find some way of getting round the fact that a kid recorded his crime. It's a poor enough starting point
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
I probably should have been clearer. Had the trial been held here the choice would have been between straight murder and manslaughter with no variants or degrees. The difference essentially being down to whether or not the Jury was convinced that Chauvin had the necessary intention to kill or cause really serious harm. If he did it was Murder if it didn't it was manslaughter (assuming the jury was convinced his actions led to Floyds death). Both charges may have been on the indictment but they didn't need to be. The Jury would have been told if they weren't convinced of murder they may find as an alternative manslaughter. If however they were satisfied it was murder they need not consider manslaughter.

The procedure in the states is entirely different but judgements like this highlight one of the many flaws in the system. Here if you have inconsistent verdicts it's clear evidence of an unsafe conviction and the case will be retried.  For example a man is accused of dangerous driving and driving without insurance, his defence is i didn't have insurance but I wasn't driving. It would be inconsistent for a jury to convict him of dangerous driving but not of no insurance and would almost certainly be immediate grounds for a retrial.

As smelmouth has highlighted that's not the case in Minnesota. Each charge is to be considered separately and errors need to have been shown in respect of each. The inconsistency of verdicts is not necessarily grounds for an automatic retrial but may form part of an appeal.

In NI it's estimated we average one miscarriage of justice a month in the crown court. That's with the huge amount of procedural safeguards we have over here. I often shudder to think how many must occur in the states with fewer protections.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 11:14:53 AM
Speaking of inconsistent verdicts and this is maybe more one for the WTF thread but.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/04/23/extinction-rebellion-protesters-cleared-despite-no-defence-in-law-14464046/?ito=article.mweb.share.top.link&fbclid=IwAR3h_gQTIfhF9749EKWoNvjTuwwD73HuxbEIpEcAI5EhewTpvoCK_os352I
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 24, 2021, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 24, 2021, 07:10:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 23, 2021, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

The best political commentator is a guy called Michael Smerconish.  Definitely listen to his podcasts

On his show a couple of weeks ago he brought up that very point and iirc had an expert discuss it with him.

His argument was that it could end up like the George Zimmerman trial-prosecutor overreached and went for the bigger charge, when the lesser one would have brought almost identical jail time

This is also very easy to explain.

It's a simple question of misinformation.

You are misinformed on the meaning of the following words; "best" and "expert".

I wouldn't be terribly enamoured by your understanding of a political commentator or the law and its practice.

Prosecutors in the Chauvin case didn't drop the lesser charge and just go for the higher one they left all 3 on the charge sheet and delivered all 3. If Chauvin's team want to find a technicality they need to find one on all 3 charges. His appeal prospects are not nil but they are very, very low. He has to find some way of getting round the fact that a kid recorded his crime. It's a poor enough starting point

This could very easily be thrown out on appeal due to Maxine Waters and Joe Biden's public comments in the days leading up to the verdict.......the JUDGE in the case said that.

Is he enough of an expert for you?

Don't be surprised to see this go to a retrial

)Also the decision not to move the case could be called into question as would the decision not to sequester the jury)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/derek-chauvin-verdict-overturned-appeal/story%3fid=77213609

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 24, 2021, 01:37:13 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/jonathanturley.org/2021/03/19/the-domino-effect-how-all-four-cases-in-the-death-of-george-floyd-could-collapse-with-a-chauvin-acquittal/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jonathanturley.org/2021/04/21/the-chauvin-appeal-how-the-comments-of-the-court-and-the-prosecutors-could-raise-challenges-going-forward/amp/

Smerconish had this guy on last week.  Well worth a read
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 24, 2021, 03:36:51 PM
I've seen Smerconish a few times flicking around on Saturday mornings while waiting for football. Can't remember if he was CNN or MSNBC.

Will check out his podcast.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.
Having just looked at the statute books in Minnesota I am now more confused than ever.  It seems you cant commit manslaughter in the 1st degree if you are convicted of Murder 1,2 or 3 but the same prohibition doesn't exist for 2nd degree manslaughter.  How strange
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.


I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.
Having just looked at the statute books in Minnesota I am now more confused than ever.  It seems you cant commit manslaughter in the 1st degree if you are convicted of Murder 1,2 or 3 but the same prohibition doesn't exist for 2nd degree manslaughter.  How strange

No. Not even slightly strange. First degree manslaughter requires an intent to kill. It differs from 1st degree murder in that it's diminished responsibility from a temporary rage - think battered wife syndrome.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 07:48:20 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 24, 2021, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 24, 2021, 07:10:33 AM
Quote from: whitey on April 23, 2021, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.

The best political commentator is a guy called Michael Smerconish.  Definitely listen to his podcasts

On his show a couple of weeks ago he brought up that very point and iirc had an expert discuss it with him.

His argument was that it could end up like the George Zimmerman trial-prosecutor overreached and went for the bigger charge, when the lesser one would have brought almost identical jail time

This is also very easy to explain.

It's a simple question of misinformation.

You are misinformed on the meaning of the following words; "best" and "expert".

I wouldn't be terribly enamoured by your understanding of a political commentator or the law and its practice.

Prosecutors in the Chauvin case didn't drop the lesser charge and just go for the higher one they left all 3 on the charge sheet and delivered all 3. If Chauvin's team want to find a technicality they need to find one on all 3 charges. His appeal prospects are not nil but they are very, very low. He has to find some way of getting round the fact that a kid recorded his crime. It's a poor enough starting point

This could very easily be thrown out on appeal due to Maxine Waters and Joe Biden's public comments in the days leading up to the verdict.......the JUDGE in the case said that.

Is he enough of an expert for you?

Don't be surprised to see this go to a retrial

)Also the decision not to move the case could be called into question as would the decision not to sequester the jury)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/derek-chauvin-verdict-overturned-appeal/story%3fid=77213609

I wasn't referring to Biden's comments. Nor was David McKeown when he referred to the charge sheet and nor was your "expert" when he "made that very point". Specific enough for you?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 25, 2021, 09:10:41 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.


I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.
Having just looked at the statute books in Minnesota I am now more confused than ever.  It seems you cant commit manslaughter in the 1st degree if you are convicted of Murder 1,2 or 3 but the same prohibition doesn't exist for 2nd degree manslaughter.  How strange

No. Not even slightly strange. First degree manslaughter requires an intent to kill. It differs from 1st degree murder in that it's diminished responsibility from a temporary rage - think battered wife syndrome.

There's a number of different ways you can commit Manslaughter under Minnesota law including what might be termed battered wive's syndrome. In some of those ways including that one you must have an intention to kill but not for all of them. For example if you sell dodgy drugs to someone and kill them that's first degree manslaughter as well. As is committing a misdemeanour with such force as to be reckless with regard to human life. It's very strange where they draw their distinctions. I much prefer ours.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 09:55:31 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 25, 2021, 09:10:41 AM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 25, 2021, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 04:36:16 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 24, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
Did Sandy Hook not effectively end the debate on gun control?  I mean if wholesale changes weren't enacted as a response to that tragedy they likely never will be.

I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case. That's not to say I think he's not guilty just that I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.


I assumed (and I'm open to correction) that being guilty of the murder charge automatically made him guilty of manslaughter i.e. murder = manslaughter + intent. I find it very hard to believe that if the two charges were mutually exclusive under MN law that the judge would not have instructed the jury to that effect.
Having just looked at the statute books in Minnesota I am now more confused than ever.  It seems you cant commit manslaughter in the 1st degree if you are convicted of Murder 1,2 or 3 but the same prohibition doesn't exist for 2nd degree manslaughter.  How strange

No. Not even slightly strange. First degree manslaughter requires an intent to kill. It differs from 1st degree murder in that it's diminished responsibility from a temporary rage - think battered wife syndrome.

There's a number of different ways you can commit Manslaughter under Minnesota law including what might be termed battered wive's syndrome. In some of those ways including that one you must have an intention to kill but not for all of them. For example if you sell dodgy drugs to someone and kill them that's first degree manslaughter as well. As is committing a misdemeanour with such force as to be reckless with regard to human life. It's very strange where they draw their distinctions. I much prefer ours.

Preferences as to how manslaughter laws should be framed is all very interesting. But getting back to your original point i.e.

Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
I also have serious concerns over the safety of the verdicts in the Chauvin case.
as
Quote from: David McKeown on April 23, 2021, 09:31:20 PM
I don't understand how a jury can convict for murder in the second degree which requires them that Chauvin had an intent to kill but also convict of manslaughter which required them to find he did not have an intent to kill.
That simply isn't true

You  continue to refer to inconsistencies in the verdict referencing what these inconsistencies are,

Quote from: David McKeown on April 24, 2021, 09:55:25 AM
The inconsistency of verdicts is not necessarily grounds for an automatic retrial but may form part of an appeal.

So what are these inconsistencies??
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Hound on April 26, 2021, 09:29:28 AM
I think David made his initial comments before he'd researched the issue and he didn't watch much of the trial. The closing arguments by the prosecution explained it all very clearly.

There are no inconsistencies in the three verdicts. Murder in the 2nd requires an intention to commit a felony. Not necessarily an intention to kill. The prosecution never tried to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 10:16:19 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 26, 2021, 09:29:28 AM
I think David made his initial comments before he'd researched the issue and he didn't watch much of the trial. The closing arguments by the prosecution explained it all very clearly.

There are no inconsistencies in the three verdicts. Murder in the 2nd requires an intention to commit a felony. Not necessarily an intention to kill. The prosecution never tried to prove Chauvin intended to kill Floyd.

Very good. Fully agree.

There are posters on this forum who will malignly pretend that there is an inconsistency in the verdicts. Don't for one moment think David is malign but we all have to be careful not to give grist to the malignant mill
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 12:00:58 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 26, 2021, 10:16:19 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 26, 2021, 09:29:28 AM
......

Very good. Fully agree.

There are posters on this forum who will malignly pretend that there is an inconsistency in the verdicts. Don't for one moment think David is malign but we all have to be careful not to give grist to the malignant mill

Yeah my original post was somewhat confused which didnt help.  Murder 2 requires an intention to either kill or commit a felony or commit bodily harm. Manslaughter 2 can be committed in a number of ways.  Having read those I dont understand how you can be guilty in any of those scenarios if you have an intention to kill or commit a felony or commit bodily harm as that would automatically come under Murder 2.  That said I note that the manslaughter statute specifically excludes a conviction for murder and manslaughter 2 in only one specific scenario which implies there's no prohibition in the other scenarios.  Its very unusual when compared to the legal systems I am more used to.

In summation I remain concerned over the safety of all the verdicts which I wouldn't have had they not been tried together but I fully accept its not clear cut and certainly not as clear cut as I had thought it was on first hearing of the verdict.  I think I would need to know more about Minnesota law to comment further.

In respect of your other points that you have quoted but I can't add in here again I obviously wasn't clear enough but my references that you have quoted to inconsistencies where not a reference to the Chauvin case per se but more generally to how inconsistencies in verdicts can and invariably do result in successful appeals in this jurisdiction 

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:12:50 PM
I will attempt to help.

The entry level charge here is 2nd degree manslaughter. That requires proof of consciously embarking on an action that runs the risk of death or ABH.

Once you have proof of that you don't have to dismiss that charge to consider a higher charge.

The next one up is 3rd degree murder. That requires a dangerous act, no regard for human life and "a depraved mind".

The final one is 2nd degree murder. Again no need to prove intent here. None of the offences require proof of intent to kill. Murder 2 requires proof of intent to commit a felony in this case assault.

The additional proof required for each higher charge does not undermine each of the lower charges. The manslaughter charge looks pretty clear to me. The added requirements of intent to do harm all the way up to an assault all looks provable and indeed proven
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 02:12:50 PM
I will attempt to help.

The entry level charge here is 2nd degree manslaughter. That requires proof of consciously embarking on an action that runs the risk of death or ABH.

Once you have proof of that you don't have to dismiss that charge to consider a higher charge.

The next one up is 3rd degree murder. That requires a dangerous act, no regard for human life and "a depraved mind".

The final one is 2nd degree murder. Again no need to prove intent here. None of the offences require proof of intent to kill. Murder 2 requires proof of intent to commit a felony in this case assault.

The additional proof required for each higher charge does not undermine each of the lower charges. The manslaughter charge looks pretty clear to me. The added requirements of intent to do harm all the way up to an assault all looks provable and indeed proven

It doesn't help but thanks.

Murder 2 can only be committed in one of three ways it seems (given the first involves drive by shootings its not particularly relevant here)

So the two relevant ways are if someone

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

In either of those scenarios you must have had an intent to commit a felony (other than the two specified) or an intent to inflict bodily harm

If we compare that to the position under Manslaughter 2 a conviction for Manslaughter 2 requires one of the following to have occurred:

A death brought about by

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

Of those only (1) is relevant.  In order to be culpably negligent you have to have acted recklessly, an individual can not intend to be culpability negligence or reckless therefore in order to meet the criteria for Manslaughter 2 you can not also meet the requirement for Murder 2 so I don't see how it could be interpreted as a building blocks approach.  I dont see any other way to properly read the statutes   

I do accept your point that an intention to kill is not necessary for murder 2, although given that an intention to kill is not necessary for murder in this jurisdiction and given my previous comments i think its obvious that I hadnt properly explained my point in the first instance.

Two other things confuse me about the case.

Firstly what is the correct charge if you intend to kill someone but there was no pre-meditation?

Secondly if you adopt a building blocks approach, why is assault and all other lesser charges not left on the indictment.

To me the manslaughter charge only looks fine provided he didnt intend to commit a felony or bodily harm which I felt he did (the felony being an unlawful assault).  If however it was established he did intend to commit either a felony or bodily harm then Murder 2 was the appropriate charge.

What gives me pause with my reasoning is that the normal rules of statutory interpretation require you to give meaning to every word.  With that in mind the fact that (5) specifies its not Manslaughter if Murder 1 2 or 3 is satisfied implies that Manslaughter (under clause 1) and Murder may be justifiable for the same incident
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 10:08:22 PM
I have trimmed your quote down to the substantive points.

The murder 2 charge here required. 
Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
an intent to commit a felony ...... or an intent to inflict bodily harm

The Manslaughter 2 charge here required
Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
A death brought about by...... the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

There is no inconsistency here. The inconsistency that you seem to be reaching for is the intent versus reckless one

Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
In order to be culpably negligent you have to have acted recklessly, an individual can not intend to be culpability negligence or reckless therefore in order to meet the criteria for Manslaughter 2 you can not also meet the requirement for Murder 2 so I don't see how it could be interpreted as a building blocks approach.  I dont see any other way to properly read the statutes   
Its clear to me that you are wrong on this and have been since the outset, The intent in the murder charge is an intent to commit a felony and the recklessness in the Manslaughter charge is recklessness towards the outcome. As I have said all along there is no inconsistency here and its not that complex.

Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
if you adopt a building blocks approach, why is assault and all other lesser charges not left on the indictment.

Because there was a death. So the charges come from the murder and manslaughter suites.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 10:26:47 PM
Quote from: smelmoth on April 27, 2021, 10:08:22 PM
I have trimmed your quote down to the substantive points.

The murder 2 charge here required. 
Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
an intent to commit a felony ...... or an intent to inflict bodily harm

The Manslaughter 2 charge here required
Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
A death brought about by...... the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

There is no inconsistency here. The inconsistency that you seem to be reaching for is the intent versus reckless one





Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
In order to be culpably negligent you have to have acted recklessly, an individual can not intend to be culpability negligence or reckless therefore in order to meet the criteria for Manslaughter 2 you can not also meet the requirement for Murder 2 so I don't see how it could be interpreted as a building blocks approach.  I dont see any other way to properly read the statutes   
Its clear to me that you are wrong on this and have been since the outset, The intent in the murder charge is an intent to commit a felony and the recklessness in the Manslaughter charge is recklessness towards the outcome. As I have said all along there is no inconsistency here and its not that complex.

Quote from: David McKeown on April 27, 2021, 03:50:20 PM
if you adopt a building blocks approach, why is assault and all other lesser charges not left on the indictment.

Because there was a death. So the charges come from the murder and manslaughter suites.

Your use of the quote system is far superior to my own so thanks for that. The point I make is the use of the term culpable negligence in the statute. If you intend what transpires to be the consequences of your actions then by definition you have acted deliberately and not culpably negligently. If you intended to commit a felony or were attempting to commit a felony or bodily harm and you so did and in doing a death resulted then you are guilty of Murder 2 but you are not culpably negligent. If you were culpably negligent and a death results then you are guilty of Manslaughter 2.

I'm struggling to see how you can be guilty of both.

Also you are quite right. I certainly could be wrong. I have been in the past and will be again in the future so me being wrong would hardly be surprising
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
Uh oh!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/05/03/derek-chauvin-juror-brandon-mitchells-participation-in-d-c-march-could-help-appeal-legal-experts-say/amp/
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 10:03:33 AM
Uh oh!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021/05/03/derek-chauvin-juror-brandon-mitchells-participation-in-d-c-march-could-help-appeal-legal-experts-say/amp/

It will be interesting to see what comes of it now.

That said, demands for fair treatment of black people and for police accountability are not, and should not, be outside of the mainstream of decent society.

Personally, I didn't attend any marches (if I was young and single I might have), but I wholeheartedly support the broad movement (obviously not violence or property destruction before someone starts). Does that mean that I couldn't be a fair juror and parse the evidence and legal technical issues at hand?

Chauvin has a hell of lot more going against him than one jury member being an enthusiastic supporter of BLM and opponent of police brutality.

How long did it take the jury to convict? Was it even half a day?

Even if he gets a retrial, it is not going to change anything. Unfortunately for him, a cop with a long history of complaints against him, a good citizen was around this time to film him literally squeezing the life out of a man for almost ten minutes. He's not making that go away. All it will do is drain the funds of the police union or whatever organization has to back him of another half a million or so.




Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.

What was the alternative?

This case is known all over the world. There were protests everywhere. They're still kneeling before football games all over Europe almost a year later.

Where were they going to move the case to find a jury who came in without prior knowledge of the case or its importance and potential impact?

I don't really care if the jury thought there would be a major backlash to an aquittal. There was nothing anyone could do to change that. People react with fury to miscarriages of justice. And this case was so crystal clear that any acquittal would have merited people on the streets. That's just simply the way it was.

And the fact that trouble was a possible outcome of an acquittal does not mean that Chauvin didn't get justice. And besides, if he hadn't been caught red-handed, on camera, dishing out a slow, brutal death, there wouldn't even have been a trial to begin with. The blue wall of silence would have protected him and he'd be free to do it again.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.

What was the alternative?

This case is known all over the world. There were protests everywhere. They're still kneeling before football games all over Europe almost a year later.

Where were they going to move the case to find a jury who came in without prior knowledge of the case or its importance and potential impact?

I don't really care if the jury thought there would be a major backlash to an aquittal. There was nothing anyone could do to change that. People react with fury to miscarriages of justice. And this case was so crystal clear that any acquittal would have merited people on the streets. That's just simply the way it was.

And the fact that trouble was a possible outcome of an acquittal does not mean that Chauvin didn't get justice. And besides, if he hadn't been caught red-handed, on camera, dishing out a slow, brutal death, there wouldn't even have been a trial to begin with. The blue wall of silence would have protected him and he'd be free to do it again.
ok so you are in favor of mob justice .
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 05:30:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.

What was the alternative?

This case is known all over the world. There were protests everywhere. They're still kneeling before football games all over Europe almost a year later.

Where were they going to move the case to find a jury who came in without prior knowledge of the case or its importance and potential impact?

I don't really care if the jury thought there would be a major backlash to an aquittal. There was nothing anyone could do to change that. People react with fury to miscarriages of justice. And this case was so crystal clear that any acquittal would have merited people on the streets. That's just simply the way it was.

And the fact that trouble was a possible outcome of an acquittal does not mean that Chauvin didn't get justice. And besides, if he hadn't been caught red-handed, on camera, dishing out a slow, brutal death, there wouldn't even have been a trial to begin with. The blue wall of silence would have protected him and he'd be free to do it again.
ok so you are in favor of mob justice .

No, I'm not.

What I'm saying is that some cases are very high profile and very emotive. Throw in the historical context and there can lie the risk of a major public response to the outcome of such a case.

Any juror in such a situation is going to be aware of that.

That doesn't mean that the jury is going to be or was intimidated into one decision or another for that reason.

If there is evidence that the jury would have acquitted him but for the fear of provoking a public backlash, Chauvin is free to make that argument if he decides to appeal.

Given the evidence presented in the trial and that he wouldn't even testify himself in his own defense, he's going to have a tough job.

I ask once again though, what SHOULD have happened, in your opinion?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 04, 2021, 05:32:13 PM
Not US policing, but fuckin' hell!

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-56979521 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-shropshire-56979521)

Great player in his day. Such an undignified end, getting the shit kicked out of you by a couple of cops.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 05:30:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.

What was the alternative?

This case is known all over the world. There were protests everywhere. They're still kneeling before football games all over Europe almost a year later.

Where were they going to move the case to find a jury who came in without prior knowledge of the case or its importance and potential impact?

I don't really care if the jury thought there would be a major backlash to an aquittal. There was nothing anyone could do to change that. People react with fury to miscarriages of justice. And this case was so crystal clear that any acquittal would have merited people on the streets. That's just simply the way it was.

And the fact that trouble was a possible outcome of an acquittal does not mean that Chauvin didn't get justice. And besides, if he hadn't been caught red-handed, on camera, dishing out a slow, brutal death, there wouldn't even have been a trial to begin with. The blue wall of silence would have protected him and he'd be free to do it again.
ok so you are in favor of mob justice .

No, I'm not.

What I'm saying is that some cases are very high profile and very emotive. Throw in the historical context and there can lie the risk of a major public response to the outcome of such a case.

Any juror in such a situation is going to be aware of that.

That doesn't mean that the jury is going to be or was intimidated into one decision or another for that reason.

If there is evidence that the jury would have acquitted him but for the fear of provoking a public backlash, Chauvin is free to make that argument if he decides to appeal.

Given the evidence presented in the trial and that he wouldn't even testify himself in his own defense, he's going to have a tough job.

I ask once again though, what SHOULD have happened, in your opinion?
the guy openly lied about the case to get on the jury if that's not grounds for a retrial I don't know what is .you can dislike it all you want but this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:09:38 AM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?

No and no

But everyone, including Chauvin, is entitled to a fair trial
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2021, 11:41:30 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 05:30:49 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 03:20:52 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 04, 2021, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 04, 2021, 01:37:44 PM
The problem is that he seems to have lied on the juror questionnaire and has since come out and essentially said people should serve on juries in order to enact social change

Maybe he should just stfu

That being said I believe Chauvin should be serving 20+ years in jail

Yep, I agree with all that.

And if he lied, then he should be appropriately penalized.

Jeopardizing a criminal prosecution is not something that should be taken lightly.
the problem with the trial was it was held in Minneapolis with jurors from Minneapolis who knew that if the verdict wasn't guilty on all charges the city and lots of other cities would burn and be looted , that's not fair on a jury or chauvin no matter what you think of him . The alternate juror has stated this already.

What was the alternative?

This case is known all over the world. There were protests everywhere. They're still kneeling before football games all over Europe almost a year later.

Where were they going to move the case to find a jury who came in without prior knowledge of the case or its importance and potential impact?

I don't really care if the jury thought there would be a major backlash to an aquittal. There was nothing anyone could do to change that. People react with fury to miscarriages of justice. And this case was so crystal clear that any acquittal would have merited people on the streets. That's just simply the way it was.

And the fact that trouble was a possible outcome of an acquittal does not mean that Chauvin didn't get justice. And besides, if he hadn't been caught red-handed, on camera, dishing out a slow, brutal death, there wouldn't even have been a trial to begin with. The blue wall of silence would have protected him and he'd be free to do it again.
ok so you are in favor of mob justice .

No, I'm not.

What I'm saying is that some cases are very high profile and very emotive. Throw in the historical context and there can lie the risk of a major public response to the outcome of such a case.

Any juror in such a situation is going to be aware of that.

That doesn't mean that the jury is going to be or was intimidated into one decision or another for that reason.

If there is evidence that the jury would have acquitted him but for the fear of provoking a public backlash, Chauvin is free to make that argument if he decides to appeal.

Given the evidence presented in the trial and that he wouldn't even testify himself in his own defense, he's going to have a tough job.

I ask once again though, what SHOULD have happened, in your opinion?
the guy openly lied about the case to get on the jury if that's not grounds for a retrial I don't know what is .you can dislike it all you want but this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

In a legal and technical sense that may be true. The courts will decide. And as I've already said, the juror should be subject to the full force of the law.

But Chauvin is going to prison for a long time. He might get a retrial, but he hasn't a leg to stand on and the result will be the same.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2021, 12:24:26 PM
The guy is obviously a complete clown

He might finds his 15 minutes of fame comes from a different place than he imagined

Smerconish had an expert on yesterday and he didn't seem to think it would cause the verdict to be tossed.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?
yes and that's irrelevant
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?
yes and that's irrelevant

Why do you think it affected the result in what was a very swift, unanimous decision?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 09:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?
yes and that's irrelevant

Why do you think it affected the result in what was a very swift, unanimous decision?
the jury was compromised by the juror who lied therefore the decision is compromised.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 05, 2021, 09:18:14 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 09:08:19 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 05, 2021, 06:33:58 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on May 05, 2021, 07:06:40 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 12:24:54 AMybut this guys admission means chauvin didn't get a fair trial

(i) Do you think it affected the result?
(ii) Do you think the result was the wrong one?
yes and that's irrelevant

Why do you think it affected the result in what was a very swift, unanimous decision?
the jury was compromised by the juror who lied therefore the decision is compromised.

That's not an answer.

Affecting the result means the result could or would have been different.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on May 05, 2021, 10:23:27 PM
I suppose it depends on the role the juror played in deliberations. The defence will obviously argue that we could never know and therefore natural justice dictates a retrial necessary. The prosecution will obviously point to the strength of the evidence, the speed of conviction etc and say the conviction is safe. A tough one to call I'd say and I wouldn't like to call it. My gut would say that the decision will be it's not enough on its own for a retrial but I'm not an expert on Minnesota law
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2021, 10:23:27 PM
I suppose it depends on the role the juror played in deliberations. The defence will obviously argue that we could never know and therefore natural justice dictates a retrial necessary. The prosecution will obviously point to the strength of the evidence, the speed of conviction etc and say the conviction is safe. A tough one to call I'd say and I wouldn't like to call it. My gut would say that the decision will be it's not enough on its own for a retrial but I'm not an expert on Minnesota law
the verdict has to be unanimous so couldn't the defense say maybe a different juror would have had a different opinion and that on its own is grounds for a mistrial/retrial
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 05, 2021, 11:07:06 PM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2021, 10:23:27 PM
I suppose it depends on the role the juror played in deliberations. The defence will obviously argue that we could never know and therefore natural justice dictates a retrial necessary. The prosecution will obviously point to the strength of the evidence, the speed of conviction etc and say the conviction is safe. A tough one to call I'd say and I wouldn't like to call it. My gut would say that the decision will be it's not enough on its own for a retrial but I'm not an expert on Minnesota law
the verdict has to be unanimous so couldn't the defense say maybe a different juror would have had a different opinion and that on its own is grounds for a mistrial/retrial

So let's say Chauvin got off because of one juror. And it was later discovered that one juror had lied when asked  about attending " back the blue" events.

Not only had they gone all the way to DC to attend an event,  but had worn a pro police tee shirt at the rally.

Do people think that acquittal should be accepted?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on May 06, 2021, 06:15:20 AM
Quote from: Gmac on May 05, 2021, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on May 05, 2021, 10:23:27 PM
I suppose it depends on the role the juror played in deliberations. The defence will obviously argue that we could never know and therefore natural justice dictates a retrial necessary. The prosecution will obviously point to the strength of the evidence, the speed of conviction etc and say the conviction is safe. A tough one to call I'd say and I wouldn't like to call it. My gut would say that the decision will be it's not enough on its own for a retrial but I'm not an expert on Minnesota law
the verdict has to be unanimous so couldn't the defense say maybe a different juror would have had a different opinion and that on its own is grounds for a mistrial/retrial

Yeah that would certainly be their argument and there's a relatively recent Supreme Court decision on that Ramos v Louisiana but I think strictly that only applies to Federal cases. Again I'm not an expert on Minnesota law but if we used here the appeal court wouldn't necessarily overturn a verdict just because there was a concern over one juror they would look to see if they were concerned about the safety of the verdict generally. To do that they'd look at the strength of the evidence, how long the jury took to decide etc and they'd only order a retrial in limited circumstances. It's not every technicality that leads to a retrial. That said I accept the point this was a pretty fundamental issue and therefore may result in a retrial. I didn't see enough of the trial to know if it should result in a retrial. The more though I read I think it will be a close decision and a retrial will be ordered. It will be interesting to see. I think this has a while to go yet.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)

He said "affected the result".

That implies the juror in some way influenced or had a decisive say on the outcome.

I'm not arguing the legal technicalities.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)

He said "affected the result".

That implies the juror in some way influenced or had a decisive say on the outcome.

I'm not arguing the legal technicalities.

I don't think it matters if it "affected the result"

It was no longer an impartial jury once the guy lied on the questionnaire

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on May 06, 2021, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)

He said "affected the result".

That implies the juror in some way influenced or had a decisive say on the outcome.

I'm not arguing the legal technicalities.

I don't think it matters if it "affected the result"

It was no longer an impartial jury once the guy lied on the questionnaire

My understanding was that Gmac somehow thought Chauvin could have been acquitted, based on the presented evidence, except for this guy.

That is all I'm asking about.

I fully accept and I'm not arguing against the fact that the verdict could be found unsafe on the legal technicality this idiot juror has injected into the proceedings.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)

He said "affected the result".

That implies the juror in some way influenced or had a decisive say on the outcome.

I'm not arguing the legal technicalities.

I don't think it matters if it "affected the result"

It was no longer an impartial jury once the guy lied on the questionnaire

My understanding was that Gmac somehow thought Chauvin could have been acquitted, based on the presented evidence, except for this guy.

That is all I'm asking about.

I fully accept and I'm not arguing against the fact that the verdict could be found unsafe on the legal technicality this idiot juror has injected into the proceedings.

Maybe it was a tongue in cheek comment

It would be accurate to say that had this juror answered truthfully he probably would not have been selected to serve on the jury...... someone else would have taken his place.  There is no way of knowing how this other person would have voted.....we can assume he/she would have voted to convict, but that's not how juries work
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: David McKeown on May 06, 2021, 07:09:50 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:23:23 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: whitey on May 06, 2021, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: J70 on May 06, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Quote from: whitey on May 05, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
If the guy lied the verdict is invalid (whether it was the right or wrong verdict)

He said "affected the result".

That implies the juror in some way influenced or had a decisive say on the outcome.

I'm not arguing the legal technicalities.

I don't think it matters if it "affected the result"

It was no longer an impartial jury once the guy lied on the questionnaire

My understanding was that Gmac somehow thought Chauvin could have been acquitted, based on the presented evidence, except for this guy.

That is all I'm asking about.

I fully accept and I'm not arguing against the fact that the verdict could be found unsafe on the legal technicality this idiot juror has injected into the proceedings.

Maybe it was a tongue in cheek comment

It would be accurate to say that had this juror answered truthfully he probably would not have been selected to serve on the jury...... someone else would have taken his place.  There is no way of knowing how this other person would have voted.....we can assume he/she would have voted to convict, but that's not how juries work

Yeah that's true but in some places like the UK it is kind of how appeals work but as I have said the whole jury system is somewhat different so I'm intrigued to see how Minnesota operates
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on May 10, 2021, 04:59:44 PM
Of the people killed by police in the US every year, about half are deaf or have some other disability or impairment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rkctxo_LQI
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2021, 08:57:53 PM
22.5 years for Derek Chauvin
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: StPatsAbu on June 26, 2021, 12:17:04 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on June 25, 2021, 08:57:53 PM
22.5 years for Derek Chauvin

No doubt will be snuck out on a new career touring Iraq or Afghanistan
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 02:54:47 PM
A New York Times investigation last fall revealed that in the previous five years police officers pulling over cars had killed more than 400 motorists who were neither wielding a gun or knife nor under pursuit for a violent crime — a rate of more than one a week.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on April 15, 2022, 03:41:47 PM
The one in Michigan the other day began with a stop for a damaged tail light and ended up with the cop, sitting on top of the guy's back, shooting him in the back of the head.

Reading the account I was actually sympathetic to the cop for much of it as, leaving aside the necessity to pull him over for such a  minor infraction, the guy was resisting and refusing to cooperate, for whatever reason (he was an African native, so maybe language/culture?)..

Sympathy ended at the moment the cop pulled out the gun and executed him.

Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 07:34:39 PM
Nowhere in Europe would a policeman shoot you for running away from a stop for a traffic offence. They'd just take away your car and send a couple of guys to arrest you. Notably, the roads in  most parts of Europe are safer than in the USA.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2022, 09:14:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 07:34:39 PM
Nowhere in Europe would a policeman shoot you for running away from a stop for a traffic offence. They'd just take away your car and send a couple of guys to arrest you. Notably, the roads in  most parts of Europe are safer than in the USA.
what if the guy pulled over fought with the cop and tried to get his gun ?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2022, 09:14:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 07:34:39 PM
Nowhere in Europe would a policeman shoot you for running away from a stop for a traffic offence. They'd just take away your car and send a couple of guys to arrest you. Notably, the roads in  most parts of Europe are safer than in the USA.
what if the guy pulled over fought with the cop and tried to get his gun ?

that's why I said send a couple of guys.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gmac on April 15, 2022, 10:17:59 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 09:19:35 PM
Quote from: Gmac on April 15, 2022, 09:14:38 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on April 15, 2022, 07:34:39 PM
Nowhere in Europe would a policeman shoot you for running away from a stop for a traffic offence. They'd just take away your car and send a couple of guys to arrest you. Notably, the roads in  most parts of Europe are safer than in the USA.
what if the guy pulled over fought with the cop and tried to get his gun ?

that's why I said send a couple of guys.
when they pull over someone they know who the car is registered too and if said person has a criminal history or any warrants, which is why most people run . I dont think anyone wants a situation to turn deadly but guys who are going back to prison have nothing to lose and don't really care what happens in some circumstances.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on April 16, 2022, 03:07:59 AM
Quote from: J70 on April 15, 2022, 03:41:47 PM
The one in Michigan the other day began with a stop for a damaged tail light and ended up with the cop, sitting on top of the guy's back, shooting him in the back of the head.

Reading the account I was actually sympathetic to the cop for much of it as, leaving aside the necessity to pull him over for such a  minor infraction, the guy was resisting and refusing to cooperate, for whatever reason (he was an African native, so maybe language/culture?)..

Sympathy ended at the moment the cop pulled out the gun and executed him.

Cop should be charged with murder.



Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on June 10, 2022, 12:52:45 PM
That cop in Michigan has been charged with second degree murder.

I wonder will he be found guilty?

Looks open and shut to me. No matter what led up to it, he was sitting on top of the guy's back, pulled out his gun and put a bullet in his head.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on June 10, 2022, 12:54:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on June 10, 2022, 12:52:45 PM
That cop in Michigan has been charged with second degree murder.

I wonder will he be found guilty?

Looks open and shut to me. No matter what led up to it, he was sitting on top of the guy's back, pulled out his gun and put a bullet in his head.

Could have done with that courage in Texas the other week..
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Gabriel_Hurl on January 27, 2023, 04:39:21 PM
Sounds like a bad video coming this evening from Memphis.
5 police officers fired and have been charged with murder after the death of Tyre Nichols 3 weeks ago after being stopped for a traffic stop.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 05:08:14 PM
It sounds ominous.

Hopefully the protests are peaceful.

At least in this case the cops have been fired and are going to be prosecuted for murder.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:46:14 AM
This is true.  White police officers are the most unfairly persecuted  group in the US.  They have literally no-one looking out for them.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:15:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
You're saying this didn't happen 3 weeks ago?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:19:38 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:46:14 AM
This is true.  White police officers are the most unfairly persecuted  group in the US.  They have literally no-one looking out for them.
Didn't realise there was a white police office group, thought everyone was under the colour blue. 
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2023, 02:01:07 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:15:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
You're saying this didn't happen 3 weeks ago?

I'm saying in the vast majority of cases where white cops killed unarmed black men, it was covered up or ignored and the shit hit that fan when the video came out to contradict the official findings or inaction.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 02:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 02:01:07 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:15:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
You're saying this didn't happen 3 weeks ago?

I'm saying in the vast majority of cases where white cops killed unarmed black men, it was covered up or ignored and the shit hit that fan when the video came out to contradict the official findings or inaction.
Okaayyyy!

This happened Jan 7. Had the 5 police officers been white there is no way the cops would have 2 weeks media blackout for official action.

Make of that what you wish.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 04:13:29 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:19:38 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on January 28, 2023, 12:46:14 AM
This is true.  White police officers are the most unfairly persecuted  group in the US.  They have literally no-one looking out for them.
Didn't realise there was a white police office group, thought everyone was under the colour blue.

I now have no idea at all about what your initial point was.  Let's go again; what did you mean by this:

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: whitey on January 28, 2023, 10:04:13 AM
There needs to be a serious reform of policing

Why any police officer, black or white, thinks it's okay to assault people like what happened is beyond me?

Granted...some of them are operating in war zones with heavily armed criminals, but that's where body cams come into their own
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: gawa316 on January 28, 2023, 02:58:41 PM
How did they not realize they would obviously get caught? You have a body cam recording!
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2023, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 02:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 02:01:07 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:15:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
You're saying this didn't happen 3 weeks ago?

I'm saying in the vast majority of cases where white cops killed unarmed black men, it was covered up or ignored and the shit hit that fan when the video came out to contradict the official findings or inaction.
Okaayyyy!

This happened Jan 7. Had the 5 police officers been white there is no way the cops would have 2 weeks media blackout for official action.

Make of that what you wish.

I get that the racial aspect could provoke a more heated public and media response, but that is usually allied to the historical and often contemporary habit of cops getting away with this shit, aided and abetted by their colleagues and the local politicians.

I think you'd have a stronger and more equivalent case to make if this had been swept under the carpet and then the contradictory video came out to a muted response.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people ARE happy enough with police brutality once race (on the surface at least) is removed from the equation.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 28, 2023, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2023, 10:04:13 AM
There needs to be a serious reform of policing

Why any police officer, black or white, thinks it's okay to assault people like what happened is beyond me?

Granted...some of them are operating in war zones with heavily armed criminals, but that's where body cams come into their own

As I've said here before, I do not envy the cops in what is a very difficult job, but surely someone among the five of them should have had the guts to call foul on what they were doing?

They weren't in a gun fight. The guy was a lanky weakling that one or two of them alone could probably have subdued. There was no way they were going to get away with this.

Or maybe the culture in their department is you DO get away with this?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 04:26:02 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 02:34:45 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 02:01:07 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 01:15:56 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 01:11:17 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 12:41:33 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 27, 2023, 07:11:56 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on January 27, 2023, 05:47:54 PM
The cops are also black which will probably quell any disquiet

Probably loads of deleted tweets when their colour was known

So you're saying people are ok with police brutality and murder if the cops are black??

Maybe the response might be relatively muted because the city government acted correctly in the aftermath, and did so before the video footage was released?

As in we don't have the usual old case of cops getting off scot free or with a slap on the wrist and next thing the video comes out showing a completely different scenario to that sold by the PD?

Incorrect. This latest incident occurred 3 weeks ago. Cops were suspended a week ago, as due process takes time.

In cases where officers are white the pitch forks and fires happen literally next day.

Right, that's been the pattern all right. ::)
You're saying this didn't happen 3 weeks ago?

I'm saying in the vast majority of cases where white cops killed unarmed black men, it was covered up or ignored and the shit hit that fan when the video came out to contradict the official findings or inaction.
Okaayyyy!

This happened Jan 7. Had the 5 police officers been white there is no way the cops would have 2 weeks media blackout for official action.

Make of that what you wish.

I get that the racial aspect could provoke a more heated public and media response, but that is usually allied to the historical and often contemporary habit of cops getting away with this shit, aided and abetted by their colleagues and the local politicians.

I think you'd have a stronger and more equivalent case to make if this had been swept under the carpet and then the contradictory video came out to a muted response.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people ARE happy enough with police brutality once race (on the surface at least) is removed from the equation.
I see what you're saying. And you're definitely not wrong, no one is happy with police brutality of any kind but I guess every case can't be headline news. The Tony Timpa killing was as disgusting as anything we've seen from US but it looks to have been swept under the carpet.

It's unfortunate but white cop on black civilian gets more traction for obvious historic reasons. But the media frenzy can be OTT and very damaging.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on January 28, 2023, 04:37:05 PM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2023, 10:04:13 AM
There needs to be a serious reform of policing

Why any police officer, black or white, thinks it's okay to assault people like what happened is beyond me?

Granted...some of them are operating in war zones with heavily armed criminals, but that's where body cams come into their own

As I've said here before, I do not envy the cops in what is a very difficult job, but surely someone among the five of them should have had the guts to call foul on what they were doing?

They weren't in a gun fight. The guy was a lanky weakling that one or two of them alone could probably have subdued. There was no way they were going to get away with this.

Or maybe the culture in their department is you DO get away with this?
Yeah it's really messed up. Some of the cops I've met in US are sound but some you get that military vibe off, that they're just desperate to go full GI Joe at the slightest opportunity. Same going through immigration, they can be very military like and ready for the big bust. Most other countries immigration officials can barley keep awake.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 28, 2023, 09:07:04 PM
I think the police depts at all levels need serious training, this shit is not a reoccurrence in other developed countries, maybe Russia aside.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Milltown Row2 on January 29, 2023, 01:33:04 AM
Maybe, maybe if there was less guns on the streets you'd see a different approach? Crazy idea but hey
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Wildweasel74 on January 29, 2023, 01:41:38 AM
You never talk am American out of a gun, they like 70 million Enoch Burkes, police way to gung ho, over the simplest thing. That's down to bad training plus the fact they think they get away with it.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: J70 on January 29, 2023, 02:51:02 AM
And then their unions throw a fit if anyone even suggests accountability.

With all the guns and the criminality, when a split second decision has to be made, unarmed people are going to get killed. There's no way around that and I have a lot of sympathy for cops in those situations.

This shit in Memphis, or with George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Eric Garner, the guy last year who sat on the victims back and shot him in the back of the head etc etc, there's no f**king excuse and all such police should be in prison. Unfortunately for the families of the victims and society in general, many of them are not.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: tonto1888 on January 30, 2023, 08:23:16 AM
Quote from: J70 on January 28, 2023, 03:52:31 PM
Quote from: whitey on January 28, 2023, 10:04:13 AM
There needs to be a serious reform of policing

Why any police officer, black or white, thinks it's okay to assault people like what happened is beyond me?

Granted...some of them are operating in war zones with heavily armed criminals, but that's where body cams come into their own

As I've said here before, I do not envy the cops in what is a very difficult job, but surely someone among the five of them should have had the guts to call foul on what they were doing?

They weren't in a gun fight. The guy was a lanky weakling that one or two of them alone could probably have subdued. There was no way they were going to get away with this.

Or maybe the culture in their department is you DO get away with this?

I think your last sentence is the reality. Possibly for many many police departments in the US
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: WT4E on February 01, 2023, 10:29:38 AM
OMG - Just watched that video. Big cowards and as someone said earlier how did not even one of these guys not say this is not what should be happening.

Maybe it was the report i watched but there didn't seem to be any body cam footage of the sever beating just cctv from a pole. why would that be?
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: tonto1888 on February 01, 2023, 01:36:05 PM
I read that along with the 5 officers sacked that one, a white officer, was placed on administrative leave. Is that true? Or internet nonsense
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: trailer on February 01, 2023, 02:39:36 PM
This is a consequence of far too many guns in circulation in the states. Violence is getting worse, not better and it's at real risk of spilling over into an ungovernable country in 10 or 20 years.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Look-Up! on February 01, 2023, 03:06:47 PM
Quote from: trailer on February 01, 2023, 02:39:36 PM
This is a consequence of far too many guns in circulation in the states. Violence is getting worse, not better and it's at real risk of spilling over into an ungovernable country in 10 or 20 years.
It has happened south of the border. There's an argument to be made that the iron river flow of guns from the States has ruined some Central American countries and added greatly to the immigration influx through Mexico. But same people who hate immigrants will still come out with the "over my dead body" mantra when it comes to gun control.

A great disconnect going on. Same way states like Illinois are held up as how gun control doesn't work but completely ignoring the fact that guns there are purchased in other states.
Title: Re: The US policing crisis thread
Post by: Eamonnca1 on February 06, 2023, 10:51:41 PM
"Using surveillance video from the jail cell where Mr. Draper was confined, the film chillingly describes the prisoner's last grueling hours. Rather than receive the medical care he desperately needed to address a drug overdose, Mr. Draper was subjected to various heavy-handed restraint techniques, including Taser shocks that opened bloody wounds on his thighs."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/31/opinion/jerod-draper-jail-death-indiana.html

Viewer discretion advised. Includes scenes that can only be described as a man being tortured to death.