Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

[reillycavan]

It's 3 years since 2017!

Most of the Big stalwarts of that 2013-2017 group are retired, dropped from the panel, peripheral squad members or are just an older version of that player.

We have the weakest midfield we've had in a generation. Our Full back line is thrown together. Our Goalkeeper is weak at kick outs.

We have not beaten Dublin in Championship or League in 8 years.

Any confidence in this game borders on stupidity.

Only a month or so ago we were third favourite behind Kerry and Donegal to give Dublin a game this year.

We were relegated from Division One.

We barely beat an average Galway team and would have lost only for a last minute intervention from McLoughlin.

Last year we were hammered in the semi-final by this team.

We are playing away against a team who have not lost a Championship game in 6 years.

Yerra

[yellowcard]

You will find pundits trying to build the game up this week when the reality is that Mayo have little hope. Cillian O'Connor scored 4-9 against Tipperary but I'd be surprised if he gets more then a couple of points from play against the Dubs. The Dubs don't concede too many scoreable free kicks either. Then where does the rest of the Mayo scores come from given that you would expect that they will need close to 20 points to win this match. They don't appear to have enough prolific forwards. Their best chance is to make it a chaotic game, score a few goals and hope that they can rattle Dublin particularly on the Cluxton kick out. Unfortunately I just can't see this happening, Dublin have too many aces up their sleeve, I just hope Mayo can at least make it competitive and that we get a decent match that is at least in the balance with 20 minutes to go.   

[seafoid]

Mayo are probably 2 years away from a team that can win Sam.
By the time they get to 2022 the Dubs will be 3 years ahead of them.

Mayo and everyone else are playing a game they can't win.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lin-a2lTelg

[Hound]

Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC andAOS would win their battles?

[StPatsAbu]

Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

[Hound]

After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The gap between Limerick and Waterford is bigger than the gap between Dubs and Mayo.

Although there are at least 3 other teams as good as Waterford, maybe more.

Close to certain in my view that Limerick with 3 or 4 of the next 5.

[imtommygunn]

After watching the hurling final where the best team in the country squeezed the life out of and dominated a pretender it did feel like a premonition of what we can expect in the football final unfortunately. I do think Mayo can win but they have to get everything right on the day against this blue machine. 

The one thing Mayo do have is the knowledge that they have troubled the Dubs in the past which should at least help them go into the game with some confidence.

The gap between Limerick and Waterford is bigger than the gap between Dubs and Mayo.

Although there are at least 3 other teams as good as Waterford, maybe more.

Close to certain in my view that Limerick with 3 or 4 of the next 5.

Are you sure the gap between dublin and mayo is bigger than limerick waterford? Probably worth revisiting that post after the game as I am not so sure...

Yes Limerick will dominate as much as you say I think. Tipp or Galway probably a bit better than Waterford so Waterford not necessarily the second best team whereas I think Mayo are.

[macdanger2]

Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

[Hound]

Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything.  Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

[Hound]

Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

Hadn't noticed that re Cillian. Fair enough. Rock doesn't get all his, but it is unexpected when he misses.

If Dublin don't start Howard then Mayo will definitely have more kickouts options than Dublin if keepers are forced to kick long. Hard to imagine us not starting Howard, but I've been saying that for the last 2 games too!

Mayo tend to make the mistake of leaving AOS isolated. They can do that against anyone else and Aidan still has a big impact.  Against the Dubs he needs to have his collegagues close so he can 1v1 versus his opponent.

[yellowcard]

It wouldn't suprise me if the Dubs start Philly McMahon for Cooper in this match in a horses for courses selection. Cooper tends to panic under high balls as we have seen previously, most notably in last years AI final and again in the first half against Cavan when he should have been black carded. O'Se against Cooper in the air is one area where Mayo could get some success, the problem is going to be in getting enough quality ball into him.   

[macdanger2]

Looking at the match ups and who might have the advantage in each of them:

Clarke v Cluxton: Dublin
Mullin v Small: Split
Barrett v Rock: Dublin (split from play but Dublin because he'll score every free inside 45m)
Keegan v O'Callaghan: Dublin
Durcan v KK: split
Coen v Bugler: split
McLaughlin v Scully: Mayo
Loftus v McCarthy: Dublin
Ruane v Fenton: Dublin
McLoughlin v McDaid: Mayo
ROD v Small: Dublin
DOC v Murchin: split
Conroy v Bryne: Mayo
AOS v Cooper: split
COC v Fitzsimons: split

So even with my red & green tinted glasses, I have it as a 6 v 9 in favour of Dublin; we'd need to turn 4 of those splits into a Mayo win to just edge ahead. And that's not even considering the Dublin bench which is better than ours.

Your Rock and COC analysis seems odd when you compare what you say about both. Also I doubt you'd swap Barrett for Fitz would you?
I'd say you'd also be hopeful that DOC and AOS would win their battles?

That's the thing though - if we have any 45s, I wouldn't fancy Cillian to put them over, he's missed 5-6 in this years championship - he should really go short with them at this stage. I think Rock will put any 45 he gets over.

I rate Murchin highly so if DOC breaks even with him, he'll be doing okay. If DOC can make himself available for our kickouts, he could have a big impact.

True, I'm hopeful that AOS can have a big game but I don't think we'll win enough ball in the middle to supply him which either means he'll be starved inside or has to come out the field where Dublin will run the legs off him.

Hadn't noticed that re Cillian. Fair enough. Rock doesn't get all his, but it is unexpected when he misses.

If Dublin don't start Howard then Mayo will definitely have more kickouts options than Dublin if keepers are forced to kick long. Hard to imagine us not starting Howard, but I've been saying that for the last 2 games too!

Mayo tend to make the mistake of leaving AOS isolated. They can do that against anyone else and Aidan still has a big impact.  Against the Dubs he needs to have his collegagues close so he can 1v1 versus his opponent.

Yeah, in previous games against Dublin, he's been left very isolated. He took two high balls against Tipp and Conroy was very close to him even if he didn't receive the ball so I'd be hopeful that the two of them can play off each other like that.

One unknown going into the match is Dessie Farrell - is he as good on the line as Jim Gavin if things get tight?

[Angelo]

Dublin couldn't compete when there was a level amateur  playing field. Bertie and HQ conspired to ensure they had every advantage financial or otherwise. They've ruined the game as a result. Cnuts.

As a matter of interest, how many All Ireland's would Dublin have won without the emergence of the greatest keeper of all time, Stephen Cluxton?And what exactly did Bertie and HQ do to create Cluxton?

Population and lack of travel to training the two massive advantages Dublin have. McCreevy tried to introduce decentralization, but was killed by country politicians wanting their area to benefit more than their neighbours, so nobody got anything.  Covid has shown a lot of companies and people that not everything has to take place in Dublin, and that will have a beneficial impact for the country and GAA. But it'll be a while

Emergence of Cluxton?

Cluxton was a Dublin player for over a decade before he won an All Ireland and just shy of his 30th birthday for his first win.

Not surprisingly we have a Dublin unionist talking out of his hole again to defend the inadequacies in the funding system.

[Cunny Funt]

dunno why anyone would think mayo people are playing the poor mouth. the facts are there for everyone to see. mayo have way more work to do in 2 weeks than dublin and some of their problems, like the kickout for example, are not going to be solved before the final. they are clearly nowhere near as defensively sound as they have been in previous years too. defenders like boyle are not easily replaced. that's not to say a mayo win is an impossibility, stranger things have happened, but they're massively up against it and i think that's plain to see to anyone who has been paying attention to this championship.

The same was said before the 2016 final. Showed little form to suggest they would be competitive against Dublin was well beaten by Dublin the previous year.  Form was iffy going into the 2017 final also, needed extra time to beat Cork, Derry and needed replays in other matches. Dublin was going to win easily was the view by many pundits.

[Angelo]

There's no doubt Cluxton has probably been the best keeper of his generation and he changed the way goalkeepers play.

But by f**k if he's not overrated. There are 4/5 keepers out there now at his level or better. Of course he is going to look good with the players he has to hit on kickouts and the defenders he has out there in front of him. No other keeper has the luxury of hitting Fenton, McCarthy, Kilkenny, Howard, O'Callaghan in the middle of the field or had the likes of McCaffrey, Flynn, Connolly etc there before them.

The idea that Dublin would not have won half they did without him is just crazy talk, there are a few games look back at, one against Kerry in a semi final and Mayo in a drawn final where he very nearly cost his side the game with mistakes but they pulled it out of the bag. We've some of Dublin's big names walk away without a problem in recent years. Cluxton will be absolutely no different.

If he is that much of a generational talent then how come his club have never come close to winning a Dublin Championship, surely if his ability and importance is as good as stated here, he would have led them to one?