Where is the GAA going?

[Give and Go]

I posted this in another thread and someone suggested it could a topic on it's own. So here it is.

Croke Park should hang it's head in shame.
This is a typical example of the ridiculous approach to disciplinary matters (Derrytresk ban) by the GAA, in fact to more than discipline, to how it sets up competitions and committees.
The GAA cannot organise a competition on simple and fair lines, everything has to cater for exceptions to the rule rather than be equitable and fair.

Likewise with it's approach to discipline. One law for a club a different standard applied to counties.

In a court of law you at lease hear all the evidence and can contest it. GAA discipline is administered by Committees who 'investigate' matters but a Club or individual cannot hear or see the evidence against them, only the allegation. It's almost impossible to get justice. It's one of the reasons we have such a poor disciplinary record as compared to other sports.
Many of the Committee members sitting in judgement have little in terms of ability, training or expertise in dealing with such matters. Their thinking is often coloured by personal preferences, by club and county politics, by media coverage and by possible media coverage of the outcome. Doing the right thing doesn't come into it very often.
The rules are deliberately vague and if they want to get you they will get you - 'misconduct considered to have discredited the Association', 'behaving in any way which is dangerous to an opponent', 'contributing to a melee'.... what does that mean???
It's very judgemental and non specific, open to interpretation and abuse.
'Attempting to strike'.....'attempting to kick'....'inflicting injury recklessly by means other than those stated above'......'minor physical interference (e.g. laying a hand on, pushing, pulling or jostling) with an official - laying a hand on could be widely misinterpreted if one wanted to be vindictive....disruptive conduct at games by team officials or supporters - what exactly is that...
Most of these terms are catch all phrases designed to allow Committees absolute power to discipline anyone they have a dislike for..
The hearings themselves are then conducted in a mystical setting where you never hear the evidence against you, the opposition can say what they will and you cannot refute it...

Referees then, don't get me going!! Many of them are only in it for the money. Some refs could be doing 10 games a week between adult and juvenile leagues, schools games, practice games. They are doing well out of it and too many are motivated only by the few bob, many of them display as much if not more contempt for players as some players have for refs! And at club level they don't forget.... Clubs and players know that and it's not fashionable or politically correct to say it, but it's often true. Some refs have been known to abuse players during games, some to vow to 'do a player' in a future game..

The GAA has become unwieldy, Croke Park has far too much sway and too many 'experts' pushing more and more obligations onto over worked volunteers at club level - ASAP Offices etc etc...
Maybe it's time for a new organisation - The Gaelic Clubs Association where players can play with their clubs when they should be instead of at the whim of a county manager who only has one interest - self promotion....

Croke Park and it's officials are leading us up a garden path - and we are letting them away with it.
There is a small army of paid officials running departments to implement 'best practice'! ASAP etc!.
Standards are being imposed that professional sports bodies wouldn't live up to and the demands on volunteers is out of hand.
Our core business is being pushed further down the agenda each week that passes.
These people have to justify their salaries at our expense. There is more reporting and statistics keeping than in the Civil Service. A numbers game is being played with the Dept of Sport on participation levels and all sorts of areas. That is driving GAA policy in Go Games etc.

The top brass are completely out of touch and have become too politicised. The election of GAA presidents epitomises that where candidates have to have a campaign to get elected, they feel they have to have an agenda which they will drive and they end up trading for votes. Into the bargain we have to pay for their secondment regardless of salary level!! So if the head of Smurfit earns €1,000,000 annually and is elected Uachtaran we have to compensate Smurfit! It's barmy.
Time was when it was solely a figurehead position, someone who had given great service to the GAA, to be the public face of the Association. Not any longer. These guys are GAA politicians.
Likewise our Ard Stuiritheoir used go about his job quietly and efficiently ( Liam Mulvihil and Sean o Siochan).
The present incumbents have started a campign against team managers that they have blown out of all proportion resulting in a Prime Time special tonight!! What have we become?
I am training Club teams for 30 years now without any payment and I know the vast majority of managers do likewise. I also know that there are many outside managers in Clubs who do receive payment but most of them are getting their expenses and maybe a little extra. A tiny minority are getting above and beyond legit exps. It is not the problem it has been portrayed as - by our own leaders...... who have managed to put us all under a cloud - no smoke without fire and all that..Shame on them.
It would serve them better to get back to reality, stop paying a nominal position compensation for giving up work (there's no need to do that, unless you want to self promote yourslef in the 32 counties).
I'm afraid the GAA has turned into a monster and cannot be turned back. It may be time for a Gaelic Clubs Association to put the Club back at the forefront of the games.

[Denn Forever]

So, what motions should we encourage our Delegates to make at Congress?

[armaghniac]

Their thinking is often coloured by personal preferences, by club and county politics, by media coverage and by possible media coverage of the outcome. Doing the right thing doesn't come into it very often.

Of course those who criticise these procedures are untainted by any of these things.

Referees then, don't get me going!! Many of them are only in it for the money

I also know that there are many outside managers in Clubs who do receive payment but most of them are getting their expenses and maybe a little extra.

So the refs are in it for the money, but the managers are getting their legitimate expenses?

[AZOffaly]

I've said it before. We (the GAA) need to spend serious money once and for all, and get a crack team to take a year to rewrite the rule book. Top to bottom. The Playing rules are fine being handled as they are, but the rules regarding eligibility, suspensions, sponsorship, amateurism, etc all need to be taken apart and rebuilt to suit these times.

We need Clarity as to what the rules mean. No more loopholes or grey areas. We also need Consistency in the penalties applied in terms of breaches of those rules. There can be no more instances where two cases attract vastly different penalties depending on the visibility and profile of the incident. There should be no difference in penalty handed down by Offaly CCC in a Junior Club match, versus the same offense in an All Ireland Final.

Finally, we need to stop, just stop, the spurious appeals as well. This is facilitated at the moment because the rule book is so subjective in areas, and has loophole that Frank Murphy could drive an ass and cart through. It's then taken advantage of as humans are humans and always want to fight for their man and stand by him etc. However, if the rules are watertight, and the suspensions are consistant, then I would propose that any appeal that is thrown out should get at least 50% more added to the suspension.

I have sympathy in one way for Derrytresk, and that is that I have no confidence that a row in Offaly next weekend would attract the same penalties for the club.

[Give and Go]

Their thinking is often coloured by personal preferences, by club and county politics, by media coverage and by possible media coverage of the outcome. Doing the right thing doesn't come into it very often.

Of course those who criticise these procedures are untainted by any of these things.

Referees then, don't get me going!! Many of them are only in it for the money

I also know that there are many outside managers in Clubs who do receive payment but most of them are getting their expenses and maybe a little extra.

So the refs are in it for the money, but the managers are getting their legitimate expenses?

Well I can tell you from personal experience as a team manager that is my belief.
It costs me considerable money to train my club team - phone calls, travel, bits of equipment, a few footballs..... It doesn't bother me but I don't like to be misrepresented or to see it happen to other managers as is happening. Everybody seems to have a voice in the GAA - there are Refs organisations in each county to look after their interests etc but managers are fair game for officials. Look at how militant they are - they refuse to allow outside refs into their county when it would be a logical step to have a swap. Does away with the familiarity problem.
And yes many refs are motivated by the money. Some of them double up at local level doing soccer games as well. Don't tell me it's a vocation to refereeing and that money isn't the reason. And I know of how many of them carry on. But it's not politically correct to question officials, is it?

[blewuporstuffed]

I've said it before. We (the GAA) need to spend serious money once and for all, and get a crack team to take a year to rewrite the rule book. Top to bottom. The Playing rules are fine being handled as they are, but the rules regarding eligibility, suspensions, sponsorship, amateurism, etc all need to be taken apart and rebuilt to suit these times.

We need Clarity as to what the rules mean. No more loopholes or grey areas. We also need Consistency in the penalties applied in terms of breaches of those rules. There can be no more instances where two cases attract vastly different penalties depending on the visibility and profile of the incident. There should be no difference in penalty handed down by Offaly CCC in a Junior Club match, versus the same offense in an All Ireland Final.

Finally, we need to stop, just stop, the spurious appeals as well. This is facilitated at the moment because the rule book is so subjective in areas, and has loophole that Frank Murphy could drive an ass and cart through. It's then taken advantage of as humans are humans and always want to fight for their man and stand by him etc. However, if the rules are watertight, and the suspensions are consistant, then I would propose that any appeal that is thrown out should get at least 50% more added to the suspension.

I have sympathy in one way for Derrytresk, and that is that I have no confidence that a row in Offaly next weekend would attract the same penalties for the club.

I agree with pretty much all of that AZ, there is never any consitancy with the way things are handled, its not good enough to just make it up as we go along any longer, players managers & clubs put too much time & effort in for things like this to be decided on the wim of a commitee

[AZOffaly]

I've said it before. We (the GAA) need to spend serious money once and for all, and get a crack team to take a year to rewrite the rule book. Top to bottom. The Playing rules are fine being handled as they are, but the rules regarding eligibility, suspensions, sponsorship, amateurism, etc all need to be taken apart and rebuilt to suit these times.

We need Clarity as to what the rules mean. No more loopholes or grey areas. We also need Consistency in the penalties applied in terms of breaches of those rules. There can be no more instances where two cases attract vastly different penalties depending on the visibility and profile of the incident. There should be no difference in penalty handed down by Offaly CCC in a Junior Club match, versus the same offense in an All Ireland Final.

Finally, we need to stop, just stop, the spurious appeals as well. This is facilitated at the moment because the rule book is so subjective in areas, and has loophole that Frank Murphy could drive an ass and cart through. It's then taken advantage of as humans are humans and always want to fight for their man and stand by him etc. However, if the rules are watertight, and the suspensions are consistant, then I would propose that any appeal that is thrown out should get at least 50% more added to the suspension.

I have sympathy in one way for Derrytresk, and that is that I have no confidence that a row in Offaly next weekend would attract the same penalties for the club.

I agree with pretty much all of that AZ, there is never any consitancy with the way things are handled, its not good enough to just make it up as we go along any longer, players managers & clubs put too much time & effort in for things like this to be decided on the wim of a commitee

Exactly. And while this team would be expensive, (You'd need representatives from barristers/lawyers, referees, (ex) players and officials), it would probably be offset over several years in money saved in appeals counter appeals and DRA hearings.

[BennyHarp]

I've said it before. We (the GAA) need to spend serious money once and for all, and get a crack team to take a year to rewrite the rule book. Top to bottom. The Playing rules are fine being handled as they are, but the rules regarding eligibility, suspensions, sponsorship, amateurism, etc all need to be taken apart and rebuilt to suit these times.

We need Clarity as to what the rules mean. No more loopholes or grey areas. We also need Consistency in the penalties applied in terms of breaches of those rules. There can be no more instances where two cases attract vastly different penalties depending on the visibility and profile of the incident. There should be no difference in penalty handed down by Offaly CCC in a Junior Club match, versus the same offense in an All Ireland Final.

Finally, we need to stop, just stop, the spurious appeals as well. This is facilitated at the moment because the rule book is so subjective in areas, and has loophole that Frank Murphy could drive an ass and cart through. It's then taken advantage of as humans are humans and always want to fight for their man and stand by him etc. However, if the rules are watertight, and the suspensions are consistant, then I would propose that any appeal that is thrown out should get at least 50% more added to the suspension.

I have sympathy in one way for Derrytresk, and that is that I have no confidence that a row in Offaly next weekend would attract the same penalties for the club.

I agree totally here - its time we had a new water tight, loop hole free rule book and hopefully that will make appeals less likely to succeed therefore less likely to be made. While they are at it, they could implement a sanction for appeals that are unsuccessful.

[Bingo]

Paul Galvin give a very simple and straightforward quote on the GAA in the paper the other day, thing it was in terms of professional, he was asked if the GAA will go pay for play or professional. He replied along the lines that it was inevitable on the reasoning "that while many argue it isn't feasible, the level of commitment currently been given is also unfeasible in the long term".

I thinks thats a very value point, we can't maintain the current standards of what is expected from a volunteer orgainisation. This applies at all levels. Even at committee level - any club that has completed or applied for a Club Maith accreditation will know how ridiculas the required amount of paperwork is. Its gone way beyond just putting teams on a pitch.

[Shamrock Shore]

I gave up after the third incorrect use of it's/its 

[muppet]

I gave up after the third incorrect use of it's/its 

You are our nominee to re-write the rulebook.

[Shamrock Shore]

Give me the rulebook, when ready, and I'll correct the punctuation.

I hate people using it's when it should be its

ONLY USE IT'S WHEN IT'S AN ABBREVIATION FOR IT IS

[muppet]

So if I had sore tonsils I should say I have tonsillit's?

[Shamrock Shore]

Dunno Muppet. Had my tonsils removed in April 1975 in The Richmond Hospital in Dublin.

For some reason they took out my 'adenoids' as well. To this day I don't know what an 'adenoid' is and, by removing same, did the surgeons ensure I would be crap at football?

[Give and Go]

Dunno Muppet. Had my tonsils removed in April 1975 in The Richmond Hospital in Dublin.

For some reason they took out my 'adenoids' as well. To this day I don't know what an 'adenoid' is and, by removing same, did the surgeons ensure I would be crap at football?

pharyngeal tonsil!