With another thrilling edition of the Sindo just around the corner, let's see if we can guess the 6 anti sinn fein headlines that will appear. Don't let evidence or any ridiculous sense of staying neutral get in the way of a good headline.
I suggest the following....
-Martin mcguinness beats the crap out of Miriam in back stage brawl.
-New poll -90% of those polled believe Martin mcguinness knows who killed everyone in Ireland (poll conducted in sindo office)
- bull that trashed kingscourt pub owned by Martin mcguinness.
- Martin made Dana cry.
Martin and Dana have love-child.
Oh wait, that one could be true.
Martin rode Shergar to death, and murdered Mother Teressa at the same time.....dorty basstard
Quote from: ardal on October 14, 2011, 11:01:44 PM
Martin rode Shergar to death, and murdered Mother Teressa at the same time.....dorty basstard
FFS will he stop at nothing!
P.S. Am waiting for the Shinner apologists to say Mother Teresa was a "economic" target and had it coming to her.
Martin mcguinness ate trileacmans hamster.
Did this get diverted from the "Right I'm pissed! Are you?" thread?
Martin doesn't drink, so less of the old slandering business noww
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2011, 11:11:23 PM
Did this get diverted from the "Right I'm pissed! Are you?" thread?
No bores allowed, get out ya monaghan hoor.
Also, hardly take a pint anymore. Sindo said mcguinness has all the drink in the country spiked with mind altering drugs that makes people violent.
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 14, 2011, 11:11:23 PM
Did this get diverted from the "Right I'm pissed! Are you?" thread?
+1 as you young bucks are wont to say. Hard to know which lot are more annoying crawling (S)indo journalist types or middle class free stater I was a shinner at college types who can't understand why the reclaiming of the fourth green field isn't top of all our agendas.
Martin mcguinness pokes grumpy old bastard with a stick and wakes him up.
Marty celebrates Halloween like this
(http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/jackolanternbutt.jpg)
Over pillow talk, Martin McGuinness convinced Padraig Pearse to start the easter rising.
Quote from: dodgy umpire on October 15, 2011, 12:12:27 AM
Over pillow talk, Martin McGuinness convinced Padraig Pearse to start the easter rising.
Sorry but that's just too sick. Mods please come in and sort this dodgy fecker out.
ahhhh, hold on now, O'reilly, reallllllllly, yeah, I'm sure the dodgy fecker will work for ya. done deal sooo
Martin McGuinness explains why he left the IRA in 1974...........
sorry - this is the National Enquirer thread, isn't it....or am I lost :P
What's that for?
Everyone was wrong! Lead headline in todays Sunday Indo website:
"MICHAEL D FEARS SINN FÉIN IN ARAS WOULD ENDORSE IRA"
The entire list of main articles listed below it consist of:
EOGHAN HARRIS: UNEASY RIDERS WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE REPUBLIC
(article opens with a reference to Martin McGuinness being "evil")
MCGUINNESS PLAYS VICTIM IN ELECTION HE CANNOT WIN
(By Willy O'Dea, who at the start of the article pretends that he had initially intended to write about all seven candidates and their campaigns, but decided in the end to dedicate it all to attacking McGuinness)
MCGUINNESS FINDS THAT IT'S A LONG, LONG WAY FROM THERE TO DOWN HERE
(A nice little partitionist one from Jody Corcoran)
BRENDAN O'CONNOR: 'MIRIAM MOMENT' WAS WHEN THE MASK SLIPPED
(Where O'Connor tells us that McGuinness bullied O'Callaghan during the show and "looked like a man who was capable of being involved in a murder")
RUTH DUDLEY EDWARDS: VICTIMS OF THE TROUBLES HAVEN'T GONE AWAY YOU KNOW
(Where ruthie tells us how Ireland's tourism industry would fall apart if McGuinness got elected.)
There is one pro-McGuinness article though. It's about John McGuinness though.
I feel like Vincent Browne reviewing the papers.
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 16, 2011, 09:45:38 AM
The entire list of main articles listed below it consist of:
I think it's meant to be a list of related articles. With one mistake.
The old rag didn't let me down this morning, full of one sided bias. It amazing anyone would be stupid enough to pay money for it. I read it online for the craic.
Its amazing that anyone would read a one side rag.
http://aprnonline.com/ (http://aprnonline.com/)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 16, 2011, 02:46:04 PM
Its amazing that anyone would read a one side rag.
http://aprnonline.com/ (http://aprnonline.com/)
Agreed but what has that got to do with this thread. You are like a little child running around the board looking for attention.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 16, 2011, 02:46:04 PM
Its amazing that anyone would read a one side rag.
http://aprnonline.com/ (http://aprnonline.com/)
'Sinn Féin's party newspaper in party bias shock'..... You've uncovered a real big story there MGHU.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 16, 2011, 02:46:04 PM
Its amazing that anyone would read a one side rag.
http://aprnonline.com/ (http://aprnonline.com/)
Thats a party newspaper of course its biased ya balloon. The SINDO is supposed to be a non biased paper
The Sunday Independent is one evil motherfckin institution.
They won't give a fcuk about what this nordie thinks - but - on their talk of the past re mcguinness, in my humble young opinion folks up here really just got weary of debating the tit for tat evils that all sides inflicted on each other - it was a cyclical exercise that ultimately offered no way out and kept the wounds green. And it really is remarkable how individual atrocities have slowly but surely been specifically referred to less and less in the northern media over time. 'Whataboutery' became a stock phrase and we have all moved on, in general, for the good of everyone. This is not a slant on the many who suffered and continue to seek justice because in the main they do so for their own dignity and peace of mind rather than as a cynical means of protecting vested interests.
And now in 2011 to hear a self-entitled, self righteous, bloated cabal of high society journos dig up the horrors of our past to use as emergency barricades to their ivory tower is nauseating in the extreme. You can respect the consistent opinions of many Unionists especially those who represent their own people through and through. You can only abhor the mock outrage of the sindo as they go raiding the wardrobe for skeletons when marty comes to town. it was "let them eat cake" for the black 6 in the bad times and now when the shinners loom large on Sir anthonys horizon suddenly the cake dont taste so good. Their hypocrisy stinks. they are a incestuous cabal who represent the vested interests of a few under the veneer of speaking for the masses and the sooner the newsagents shelves are cleansed of their poison the better.
if they all lost their jobs in the morning i would jump for f**king joy
Was waiting on some food in a bar yesterday and picked up a copy of the sindo. A front page story... Gerry Adams travelled in a vehicle which had darkened windows, which apparently is a form of transport which is often used by gangsters and drug lords. Yep. Seems Gerry Adams is now even more evil than the sindo have always been telling us. They already have said for years that he is a gangster but now we know he is linked (however tediously) with being a drug Lord.
What sort of mindset does a reader have to have to get sucked into such extreme form of propaganda? How can such utter utter drivel be passed as journalism in a supposedly civilised place? How low an opinion of ones self must a reader have to allow themselves be actually influenced by excrement like that? The sad part is, there are no shortage of bone idle, judgemental, sanctimonious dumbasses out there who lap up such "journalism" and who will still maintain that they aren't being led by the noise in how they think.
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
What sort of mindset does a reader have to have to get sucked into such extreme form of propaganda?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DBYr_Z1hfg/TzQEMQoSCpI/AAAAAAAAC7U/adKEI54v0zY/s320/IronyMeter1.gif)
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Was waiting on some food in a bar yesterday and picked up a copy of the sindo.
I love how everybody feels the need to explain the circumstances in which they commandeered a copy of the Sindo, but never actually bought it.
Quote from: All of a Sludden on August 12, 2013, 09:42:38 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
What sort of mindset does a reader have to have to get sucked into such extreme form of propaganda?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2DBYr_Z1hfg/TzQEMQoSCpI/AAAAAAAAC7U/adKEI54v0zY/s320/IronyMeter1.gif)
Haaaaaa!
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on August 12, 2013, 09:51:57 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Was waiting on some food in a bar yesterday and picked up a copy of the sindo.
I love how everybody feels the need to explain the circumstances in which they commandeered a copy of the Sindo, but never actually bought it.
Just to make sure there's no confusion!
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Was waiting on some food in a bar yesterday and picked up a copy of the sindo. A front page story... Gerry Adams travelled in a vehicle which had darkened windows, which apparently is a form of transport which is often used by gangsters and drug lords. Yep. Seems Gerry Adams is now even more evil than the sindo have always been telling us. They already have said for years that he is a gangster but now we know he is linked (however tediously) with being a drug Lord.
Clearly the darkened windows are to dim the glow of his halo.
:P
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on August 12, 2013, 09:51:57 AM
Quote from: Nally Stand on August 12, 2013, 09:31:41 AM
Was waiting on some food in a bar yesterday and picked up a copy of the sindo.
I love how everybody feels the need to explain the circumstances in which they commandeered a copy of the Sindo, but never actually bought it.
It is free in any hotel, brothel or show house.
https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1387742272171696128?s=08
As shit at maths as they are at journalism
Quote from: Itchy on April 29, 2021, 08:47:25 PM
https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1387742272171696128?s=08
As shit at maths as they are at journalism
What a bunch of absolute c***ts.
Journalism isn't dying because of social media. It's killing itself.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 29, 2021, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 29, 2021, 08:47:25 PM
https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1387742272171696128?s=08
As shit at maths as they are at journalism
What a bunch of absolute c***ts.
Journalism isn't dying because of social media. It's killing itself.
Jesus wept! How embarrassing! The comments are worth it though
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 29, 2021, 11:08:38 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 29, 2021, 10:58:40 PM
Quote from: Itchy on April 29, 2021, 08:47:25 PM
https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1387742272171696128?s=08
As shit at maths as they are at journalism
What a bunch of absolute c***ts.
Journalism isn't dying because of social media. It's killing itself.
Jesus wept! How embarrassing! The comments are worth it though
Journalists never write the headlines.
The buck stops with the editor though
I once applied for a job as an editor.
In the interview, they asked me why I wanted to be an editor.
I said "Well, to cut a long story short..."
Tweet had been deleted, what was the content.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 30, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
Tweet had been deleted, what was the content.
Presumably relates to this:
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/e/8e7bf7388603bc52a11b592d1a984aaeb7906a77.jpeg)
When the likes of Rossfan take their cues from the Indo it explains a lot.
Quote from: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 09:13:26 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 30, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
Tweet had been deleted, what was the content.
Presumably relates to this:
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/e/8e7bf7388603bc52a11b592d1a984aaeb7906a77.jpeg)
When the likes of Rossfan take their cues from the Indo it explains a lot.
Dear god, that can't be true, can it?
Quote from: johnnycool on April 30, 2021, 09:38:06 AM
Quote from: Angelo on April 30, 2021, 09:13:26 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 30, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
Tweet had been deleted, what was the content.
Presumably relates to this:
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/8/e/8e7bf7388603bc52a11b592d1a984aaeb7906a77.jpeg)
When the likes of Rossfan take their cues from the Indo it explains a lot.
Dear god, that can't be true, can it?
That's Irish journalism for you.
Journalism is a dying trade now and good journalism is buried among the trash and click bait headlines aimed to shock and peddle agendas. This is across all borders and topics.
The Daily Mail in UK is poison. Some of the stuff they lead with is shocking. Express not much better and not even mention the Tabloids.
Plenty of guilty parties in Ireland too. The broadsheets all following suit down the line of driven agendas. Then you've the likes of McKenna and others who are moved out of mainstream and they go to extremes and slowly align with the likes of Gript and new media.
Modern journalism nowadays seems to be entry level click bait like joe.ie, ladbible, balls.ie, sportsjoe etc etc. They barely even fact-check their stories and sources. One mans tweet or Instagram post is a full article on loop for 4 days.
One positive in recent times has been the emergence of independent areas like podcasts and blogs. Has been some brilliant ones over the years that are free of the required view that many of traditional media require. Sports in particular has had plenty of offerings in this area with fans creating lots of content and attracting high levels of interest.
Quote from: Louther on April 30, 2021, 10:45:50 AM
Journalism is a dying trade now and good journalism is buried among the trash and click bait headlines aimed to shock and peddle agendas. This is across all borders and topics.
The Daily Mail in UK is poison. Some of the stuff they lead with is shocking. Express not much better and not even mention the Tabloids.
Plenty of guilty parties in Ireland too. The broadsheets all following suit down the line of driven agendas. Then you've the likes of McKenna and others who are moved out of mainstream and they go to extremes and slowly align with the likes of Gript and new media.
Modern journalism nowadays seems to be entry level click bait like joe.ie, ladbible, balls.ie, sportsjoe etc etc. They barely even fact-check their stories and sources. One mans tweet or Instagram post is a full article on loop for 4 days.
One positive in recent times has been the emergence of independent areas like podcasts and blogs. Has been some brilliant ones over the years that are free of the required view that many of traditional media require. Sports in particular has had plenty of offerings in this area with fans creating lots of content and attracting high levels of interest.
You forgot to mention editorial line being bought by external forces too.
The sad thing is, within all these broadsheets there is the occasional brilliant journalist. I think Malachy Clerkin and Miriam Lord are very good for example but I could never pay for a paper that is not fair and impartial in its editorial and I say that as someone who has a fully paid subscription in two local papers. The way forward may be to break out sports subscriptions or subscribe to read certain journalists but not others. Like imagine paying for a paper that allows Ruth Dudley Edwards to write bare faces lies every week, imagine your money paying for her bills - no chance?
Quote from: Itchy on April 30, 2021, 11:16:29 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 30, 2021, 10:45:50 AM
Journalism is a dying trade now and good journalism is buried among the trash and click bait headlines aimed to shock and peddle agendas. This is across all borders and topics.
The Daily Mail in UK is poison. Some of the stuff they lead with is shocking. Express not much better and not even mention the Tabloids.
Plenty of guilty parties in Ireland too. The broadsheets all following suit down the line of driven agendas. Then you've the likes of McKenna and others who are moved out of mainstream and they go to extremes and slowly align with the likes of Gript and new media.
Modern journalism nowadays seems to be entry level click bait like joe.ie, ladbible, balls.ie, sportsjoe etc etc. They barely even fact-check their stories and sources. One mans tweet or Instagram post is a full article on loop for 4 days.
One positive in recent times has been the emergence of independent areas like podcasts and blogs. Has been some brilliant ones over the years that are free of the required view that many of traditional media require. Sports in particular has had plenty of offerings in this area with fans creating lots of content and attracting high levels of interest.
You forgot to mention editorial line being bought by external forces too.
The sad thing is, within all these broadsheets there is the occasional brilliant journalist. I think Malachy Clerkin and Miriam Lord are very good for example but I could never pay for a paper that is not fair and impartial in its editorial and I say that as someone who has a fully paid subscription in two local papers. The way forward may be to break out sports subscriptions or subscribe to read certain journalists but not others. Like imagine paying for a paper that allows Ruth Dudley Edwards to write bare faces lies every week, imagine your money paying for her bills - no chance?
Very true. Agendas are often facilitated through shady deals, ownership alliance and good old straight forward payment!
Over the years sports have tried to go out on their own but can't think of many papers making it in Ireland or UK that have been solely sports based - Gaelic Life only one that has lasted to its credit. On continent it's a big part of the print media. The Athletic has some very good stuff but is purely online and came from USA.
Man overboard
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/eoghan-harris-dropped-as-sunday-independent-columnist-over-fake-twitter-account-40395774.html
https://twitter.com/barbarapym2
RDE away too?
Maybe Alan English is serious about turning the tanker.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2021, 09:20:03 PM
Man overboard
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/eoghan-harris-dropped-as-sunday-independent-columnist-over-fake-twitter-account-40395774.html
A hero of yours?
Slap it up the odious West Brit tosser
Have to admit it is somewhat enjoyable seeing a west Brit "journo" (not surprisingly) exposed as an internet troll. I see that the Twitter account in question has been accused of bullying a female journalist from the north, I'm just wondering who else will be exposed as being behind it.
F**kin sanctimonious donkey. A bad month for the DUP just keeps getting worse.
That'll learn him
From all accounts the Belgians want a total change in direction at the Sindo. Harris led the old guard revolt and they played this card. RDE also gone, O'Hanlon done a 180.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on May 07, 2021, 01:53:50 AM
From all accounts the Belgians want a total change in direction at the Sindo. Harris led the old guard revolt and they played this card. RDE also gone, O'Hanlon done a 180.
I don't see any evidence of that yet.
The attacks are continuing ah hominem against SF, see the recent case of Leo Varadkar's biographer and the SF database which is a total non story. The same journalist then went on a twitter campaign citing that he was being intimidated and threatened because someone tweeted him a Tom and Jerry gif of him shooting himself in the foot.
This is only tip of the iceberg stuff when it comes to Irish journalism.
What is very noteworthy is the number of followers that account had from prominent Irish Times and Independent journalists.
Seems the man who complained about Sinn Fein twitter trolls was the biggest troll of them all. Some of the stuff from that account is shocking and I see online there are other accounts that are suspiciously like the one call out. What an odious little west brit hypocrite, I hope he gets everything that he deserves now and never gets published again. I also wouldnt be getting too excited yet about the transformation of the Sindo even if the removal of this w**ker and RDE is a step in the right direction.
The less of a voice RDE gets the better. It's pretty much hate speech a load the crap she spouts. I don't know enough about the other boy to know but sounds like he is in the same camp.
Interesting to hear those who pretend there is not a huge bias in the Free State media against SF.
Broadcasters defaming SF politicians.
Journalists running burner accounts abusing and denigrating SF.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on May 07, 2021, 01:53:50 AM
From all accounts the Belgians want a total change in direction at the Sindo. Harris led the old guard revolt and they played this card. RDE also gone, O'Hanlon done a 180.
Be badly wanted if true. Paper has turned into a miserable, nihilistic rag with nothing positive to say about anybody or anything.
Quote from: mouview on May 07, 2021, 09:50:29 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on May 07, 2021, 01:53:50 AM
From all accounts the Belgians want a total change in direction at the Sindo. Harris led the old guard revolt and they played this card. RDE also gone, O'Hanlon done a 180.
Be badly wanted if true. Paper has turned into a miserable, nihilistic rag with nothing positive to say about anybody or anything.
Apart from articles on how Helen McEntee having a baby "lifted the mood of the nation".
And inside the Dail as Leo Varadkar stars in hilarious Simon Harris TikTok video.
Shocking carry on and no messing with the action taking. You'd hope it serve as a warning to rest and I'm sure some twitter accounts will go quiet and a few heads looking over shoulder.
Once again it highlights what a cesspit the likes of twitter can be with faceless posters and constant trolling, no one has a monopoly on that practice.
This type of stuff sticks. Gript at it again this week with another false story about made up relations of Eamon Ryan. Posted a story and left it there for hours before removing and issuing an "apology" but harm was done and was been quoted all over social media by the usual suspects.
Media needs a serious clear out.
Quote from: Louther on May 07, 2021, 11:10:16 AM
Shocking carry on and no messing with the action taking. You'd hope it serve as a warning to rest and I'm sure some twitter accounts will go quiet and a few heads looking over shoulder.
Once again it highlights what a cesspit the likes of twitter can be with faceless posters and constant trolling, no one has a monopoly on that practice.
This type of stuff sticks. Gript at it again this week with another false story about made up relations of Eamon Ryan. Posted a story and left it there for hours before removing and issuing an "apology" but harm was done and was been quoted all over social media by the usual suspects.
Media needs a serious clear out.
Maybe no messing, I wonder how long they knew about it. I wonder who else is involved. Did they get wind that all was about to come out anyway? Harris has been disgracing himself under his real name in that paper for a long time and nothing was done.
You just need to look at some of the main writers and editors of the mainstream media.
Simon Conveney - FG - brother is Director of strategy at RTE
Kate O'Connell - FG - brother in law is Indo political correspondent Hugh O'Connell
Averil Power - former FF - was married to Indo editor Fionan Sheehan
Jim O'Callaghan - FF - sister is RTE current affairs broadcaster Miriam O'Callaghan
Leo Varadkar - FG - biographer Phillip Ryan is Indo political editor
Then you have the likes of Tubridy from a staunch FF family, Sean O'Rourke enjoying a nice cosy relationship with FFG friends as was exposed at the Golfgate incident, Joe Duffy being involved in defaming SF TDs on a number of occasions now.
And some people will say there is no obvious agenda with the Free State Media. It's endemic before you even start with the likes of Harris, RDE and Eilish O'Hanlon.
I note that Brandon Lewis was a follower of the account along with Carla Lockhart, Newtown Emerson, Mick Fealty and many of that ilk. Twitter has now suspended 8 or 9 other accounts linked to Barbara J Pym.
Can someone enlighten me as to what sort of content was in these accounts. I haven't read the indo for years due to the one dimensional dribble they have spurted out. I'm assuming these accounts where Directed at undermining SF and republicanism given the characters involved. Is that west Brit Ian O Doherty still there. On the subject the paper isn't even sold here in Dunloy anymore as they seem to be targeting places like cullybackey or Dervock for sales. Sorry for my ignorance on the subject at hand.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 07, 2021, 03:06:22 PM
I note that Brandon Lewis was a follower of the account along with Carla Lockhart, Newtown Emerson, Mick Fealty and many of that ilk. Twitter has now suspended 8 or 9 other accounts linked to Barbara J Pym.
Will have been a late evening for alt-DUP on twitter scanning the pages and screenshotting the shite out of them for future recirculation.
Whats the story with alt-DUP anyway, is that someones full time paid job or what?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/twitter-suspends-nine-accounts-linked-to-profile-used-by-eoghan-harris-1.4558375?mode=amp
One of the account's targets was Irish Examiner political correspondent Aoife Grace Moore.
"This account sent me sexualised messages about whether Mary Lou McDonald 'turned me on', the size of my arse and called me a terrorist from the month I started at the Examiner. Since then, I've had to go to counselling and the guards," Ms Moore tweeted on Thursday after the Sunday Independent announced it had dropped Mr Harris.
Barbera J Pym gives her unbiased reaction on the news...
https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/05/07/leave-sexy-and-distinguished-eoghan-harris-alone-barbara-j-pym/
"Hello everyone, let me start by saying you're going to hear a lot of things being said about Eoghan Harris online and in the papers in the coming days, but only the vast majority of it will be true.
Before you open your minds I ask that you instead bang your head against the wall first as I think it's only right that for balance I say that Eoghan Harris is sexy, smart, respected and full of integrity. And I say this as someone with nothing to gain from saying so, as I have no personal connection to Eoghan, who is taller and slimmer in person than you might think.
Now that's out of the way, let me address the fact that the account operated in part by Eoghan sent sexualised messages to one journalist, engaged in ad hominem attacks, and wrote cringe-inducing supportive tweets praising himself. On this matter I will concede that:
Sinn Féin/IRA want to inject The Communist Manifesto directly into the brains of Ireland's children at point of birth.
Some may say Eoghan, who is the country's most insightful and articulate thinker and was once romantically linked to Mother Ireland, is a sad old obsessed man.
But by saying such things they're ruining the spotless reputation of a man who used his Sunday Independent position to staunchly defend Bertie Ahern's financial affairs and labeled key Moriarty tribunal witness Tom Gilmartin a fantasist; he did all this out of the goodness of his heart and got nothing for it except Ahern appointing him to the Seanad.
Others will say that Eoghan's unmasking as an anonymous online troll that obsessively denigrated Sinn Féin online, outside of his usual column, has actually gifted a massive win to the party and made him look like a complete f**king idiot, but actually I measured Eoghan's brain once with a measuring tape and the measuring tape wasn't big enough, that's how gargantuan his brain is.
Many will say Eoghan has never met an issue that he couldn't come out on the wrong side of, but may I remind you this is the man who poured scorn on John Hume's efforts to achieve peace in the North and supported the war in Iraq, so I've little doubt Eoghan will be back with more excellent points, and even more handsome than before.
Some meltdown from Eoghan Harris on the radio.
Willie Frazeresque.
https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21950950
Christ this Eoghan Harris interview is even better than the Maria Bailey one. McInerney allowed him to make an absolute twat (well, more of one) of himself.
Quote from: gallsman on May 07, 2021, 07:34:21 PM
Christ this Eoghan Harris interview is even better than the Maria Bailey one. McInerney allowed him to make an absolute twat (well, more of one) of himself.
He's deranged. A loony of the highest order. Worryingly why is Micheal Martin taking advice from the eejit?
His assertion that Twitter took down accounts due to pressure from big bad Sinn Fein. Loon.
I dare anybody to play a drinking game using that Eoghan Harris interview. Take a drink every time he mentions the words Sinn Fein and you'll be lying on your back before the interview is finished!
He has an unhealthy obsession with them, so much so that you'd really question where the absolute hatred comes from. I'd really love to know what happened him to cause him to live out his days obsessing on this subject or was he always like this? It's worse than Jim Allister or any of the hard line DUPers. He's a very useful propaganda tool for SF, if anything he's only helping bolster their support as he comes across as an old misogynistic bully.
Excellently handled by Mcinerney who like a silent assassin ripped him asunder.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/eoghan-harris-s-secret-account-was-discovered-as-a-result-of-poll-data-1.4558758?mode=ampI
It is understood Harris's involvement in the account, which used the handle @barbarapym2, came to light last weekend as the Sunday Independent prepared to published the results of a poll it had commissioned on a united Ireland.
Harris was given the results of the poll ahead of publication. Shortly afterwards, details appeared on the Pym account. Management approached Harris and he admitted contributing to the account. This account was confirmed by Harris to The Irish Times on Friday.
Harris told The Irish Times he thought the poll results were in the public domain at the time that the Pym account shared them.
That story is bonkers. There really should be more made of it.
My youngest wants to do journalism at college, fixated on it and reading this thread would put me off encouraging her to do it.
I´d say she would be extremely discouraged after finding out that MR2 was her Dad.
Quote from: Main Street on May 08, 2021, 09:58:46 PM
I´d say she would be extremely discouraged after finding out that MR2 was her Dad.
On the whiskey tonight?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2021, 09:56:21 PM
My youngest wants to do journalism at college, fixated on it and reading this thread would put me off encouraging her to do it.
The Sindo isn't journalism.
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 08, 2021, 08:54:05 PM
That story is bonkers. There really should be more made of it.
Eddie Hobbs Disagrees!
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealEddieHobbs/status/1390563797891534850
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2021, 10:22:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2021, 09:56:21 PM
My youngest wants to do journalism at college, fixated on it and reading this thread would put me off encouraging her to do it.
The Sindo isn't journalism.
In general
Quote from: seafoid on May 08, 2021, 10:22:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 08, 2021, 09:56:21 PM
My youngest wants to do journalism at college, fixated on it and reading this thread would put me off encouraging her to do it.
The Sindo isn't journalism.
Where is "journalism ", the utter shit far outweighs the good journalists
For anyone who missed Harris's drivetime meltdown! Here is the Musical version!
https://mobile.twitter.com/BigDirtyFry/status/1391148467112890374
' Eoghan, would you stop the nonsense ' ;D
Quote from: grounded on May 08, 2021, 10:54:41 PM
For anyone who missed Harris's drivetime meltdown!
https://mobile.twitter.com/BigDirtyFry/status/1391148467112890374
' Eoghan, would you stop the nonsense ' ;D
McInerney sometimes is a bit enthuasistic and interrupts speakers etc, but the good sense to let Harris rant away.
meanwhile, Harris' scriptwriting students recall his style
"He once screamed at us for 2 hours. He was literally foaming at the mouth. Most of it not really relevant."
"all this lectures were like cheese induced dreams can't believe they actually happened in real life"
"I stopped going to his classes after he literally scrunched up my script & threw it in my face & declared "the cleaning women" had more right to be there than me. Multilevel obnoxiousness. He stopped going himself a few weeks later cuz he was having trouble with his Hitler script"
"he was far and away the worst screenwriting tutor I have ever encountered or heard of in the 20 plus years since. Aristotelian horseshit."
"He spent one class saying how "fat women" (his words) should wear tight clothes. Such a p***k."
"I was one of three women in my class and he would often gesture to one of us when spouting wild generalisations about women. And some lads in the class got a kick out of that. Fun stuff."
"Or until you've been verbally abused by him (In public) for trying to explain to him why you're not attending said class! A dangerous narcissist who should never have been allowed to teach undergrads."
"Met him for coffee once, to discuss a script. I can only describe it as hallucinatory and unhelpful."
"I had him as a 'screenwriter' lecturer too. His first words to us as he stormed into the room were "I'm a Neocon! GET OVER IT!" He then spent two hours raging about provos and insisting that in this world you're either an Aristotelian or a Platonist.
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
That whole thing with twitter is absolutely bonkers.
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
But but but SF.
What about jackasses like Varadkar and Martin guffawing over which IRA gunman they will hang a portrait of in their office?
People like you are stuck in the past and need to grow up.
Quote from: Itchy on May 07, 2021, 09:01:19 PM
His assertion that Twitter took down accounts due to pressure from big bad Sinn Fein. Loon.
Just listened to that there now and that lad needs professional help.
Sinn Fein are living in his head in an unhealthy way.
Man with regular newspaper column is denied a platform.......
It is not the behaviour of someone with a sound mind.
I believe he had bi polar issues.
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Don't know why thats relevant? But at least Cullinane isn't ashamed of this countrys history unlike the West Brit parties!
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
I'd imagine Hound and Mouview are the uneducated type who take their cues off the Indo every weekend.
The idiocy behind their (badly made) arguments is incredible.
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Anyone who calls it out is a conspiracy theorist according to Hound.
Strange that for a man who doesn't buy the Indo or care for Eoghan Harris and his views, he is actually putting forward the same type of viewpoint and rationale.
They seem like cosy bedfellows.
Harris should have been put out to paster a decade ago.
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/lifestyle/the-energy-that-she-exudes-is-always-sexual-29275407.html
The Sindo is probably the most partionist media organ in the 26 counties. They miss the troubles. And things have moved on. Plus the Belgians are in charge now
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG.
I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!
I'll have to again bring point of attention to the brazen hypocrisy of Hound a few weeks back.
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
Not sure if its stupidity or arrogance but he's not making one iota of sense here.
I'll take my time and explain this slowly and as clearly as I can.
Ireland (ROI) is a small country by many standards, size, population, economic might. As one which has a small, open economy it relies very heavily on trade around the world with other countries and trading blocs (e.g. the EU); it also relies very heavily on investment from foreign companies in the country who provide employment and thus financial prosperity. Technological and pharmaceutical firms are an example of this. Ireland has the great benefit of having many friends in the world; e.g. there is a very strong pro-Irish lobby in the USA; the EU has been of huge assistance in providing structural funds to Northern Ireland in the wake of the GFA.
Political stability and maturity is of critical importance. A recent example of this is where Norwegian telecoms company Telenor was forced to write-down a very large investment amount in Myanmar due to the unrest in that country.
https://thediplomat.com/2021/05/norways-telenor-writes-off-its-myanmar-operation-amid-crisis/
What would it say to the world if Ireland was to be seeing to promote a political party who haven't forsworn their links with a terrorist organisation? Who has supported murderers of a law enforcement officer of the state, whose TD recently endorsed a sectarian killer?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40275992.html
Do you think it would entice foreign corporations to (continue to) invest in the country? There may be a lot of political goodwill towards Ireland in Washington but the American government would not or will not support a terrorist-sympathizing party here.
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG.
I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!
So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 12:48:39 PM
Harris should have been put out to paster a decade ago.
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/lifestyle/the-energy-that-she-exudes-is-always-sexual-29275407.html
The Sindo is probably the most partionist media organ in the 26 counties. They miss the troubles. And things have moved on. Plus the Belgians are in charge now
Yep, I think what is more interesting, is those even now, who are heaping praise on him while ignoring all the ills he done.
His treatment of John Hume(along with Dunphy) was disgraceful. He wasn't alone in irish media and political circles.
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG.
I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!
So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?
SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.
You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!
The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG.
I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!
So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?
SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.
You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!
The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism
Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself which such blatant lies?
Joe Brolly was hauled off the United Ireland debate after accusing the DUP of being sectarian, racist and homophobic on RTE.
This was a week after Brian Dobson gave Leo Varadkar a free pass to make unfounded sectarian charges against SF which he later had to apologise. He was allowed to this completely unchallenged by Dobson and RTE. RTE had to settle a defamation case with a SF TD recently after Joe Duffy defamed him live on air, it cost them around 150k which will be footed by the taxpayer, the same presenter has previously defamed SF with untruthful allegations - how is Duffy still in a job? Miriam O'Callaghan has regularly made completely unfounded allegations against Gerry Adams and also had to issue an apology to Danny Morrison after she defamed him on live TV.
RTE have a track record of making unfounded allegations against SF members. Look at the recent bullying allegations of the SF member in Meath, wall to wall coverage yet little of Jennifer McNeill hauling down a party member to Killiney beach. Nothing about the FG councillor in Meath who claim he has his car burned out and was forced to leave the party due to factions within the party and FG HQ did nothing about it.
You are getting caught out rotten talking out both side of your mouth and it's interesting to see how hostile you're getting when it's been scrutinised.
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
I'll take my time and explain this slowly and as clearly as I can.
Ireland (ROI) is a small country by many standards, size, population, economic might. As one which has a small, open economy it relies very heavily on trade around the world with other countries and trading blocs (e.g. the EU); it also relies very heavily on investment from foreign companies in the country who provide employment and thus financial prosperity. Technological and pharmaceutical firms are an example of this. Ireland has the great benefit of having many friends in the world; e.g. there is a very strong pro-Irish lobby in the USA; the EU has been of huge assistance in providing structural funds to Northern Ireland in the wake of the GFA.
Political stability and maturity is of critical importance. A recent example of this is where Norwegian telecoms company Telenor was forced to write-down a very large investment amount in Myanmar due to the unrest in that country.
https://thediplomat.com/2021/05/norways-telenor-writes-off-its-myanmar-operation-amid-crisis/
What would it say to the world if Ireland was to be seeing to promote a political party who haven't forsworn their links with a terrorist organisation? Who has supported murderers of a law enforcement officer of the state, whose TD recently endorsed a sectarian killer?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40275992.html
Do you think it would entice foreign corporations to (continue to) invest in the country? There may be a lot of political goodwill towards Ireland in Washington but the American government would not or will not support a terrorist-sympathizing party here.
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
This period as being the main opposition is a great opportunity for SF to show the doubters that they are neither monsters nor raving loonies, as plenty in the south would have thought them previously due to their support of indiscriminate terrorism and/or Marxism in the not too distant past (but getting further in past every day!)
Cullinane got things off to an immediate bad start and a good minority of shinners have doubled down on that by commending him. But at least leadership gave him a public dressing down.
Most people would say Pearse Doherty appears intelligent and very competent and I was particularly looking forward to seeing how he did as Opposition Finance spokesperson. Unfortunately Brexit and Covid has dominated everything and on a big picture level, SF have been little different to FF and FG regarding policy on these issues. So we've seen almost nothing from Doherty on how he'd treat the Foreign Investment / MNC sector.
But also as they've been mostly following the FG/FF policies on the two big issues (while sniping on small issues that come around, as all opposition parties do), they've shown a level of responsibility and competence and have done nothing really that might make people very wary of them leading the country (save that Cullinane episode).
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
Ethnic cleansing down in West Cork wasn't terrorism, it was the liberation of Free Staters so that they could create a elite in society that could enrich themselves by hawking off state resources and services to connected private interests.
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?
They would.
SF are the largest party on this island at present. I think it's obvious to see why unionists and FFG have a common interest in seeing the island remain partitioned.
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:39:53 PM
This period as being the main opposition is a great opportunity for SF to show the doubters that they are neither monsters nor raving loonies, as plenty in the south would have thought them previously due to their support of indiscriminate terrorism and/or Marxism in the not too distant past (but getting further in past every day!)
(https://tfkdatatfk.s3.dualstack.eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/1/f/1ffd1fe206ace106049376a723a9c9cd7414eb9e.jpeg)
Ghastly crime
Interesting too is that implicit in Vlad's statement is the possibility that the government might one day issue an apology to the families of those murdered by the Free State.
Here's what Vlad said on being asked by a Sinn Féin TD if the Free State had murdered Republicans at Ballyseedy: 'Deputy Ferris raised the issue of Ballyseedy and I have been there. I can say, in clear conscience and without any doubt in my mind, that the events at Ballyseedy constituted an atrocity. I can also say that people who were executed without trial by the government were murdered. It was an atrocity. That is my view.'
His comments were frank, controversial and went largely unnoticed by the media. Incredibly, they also were ignored by Fine Gael, some of whose founders were responsible for the ghastly crime.
The Ballyseedy outrage was one of many carried out by the Irish National Army against anti-Treaty soldiers. Eoin Neeson, in his book 'The Civil War 1922-23,' writes that although most Kerry people supported the anti-Treaty forces, the important towns were occupied by pro-Treaty troops, a situation that facilitated their campaign of bloodletting and retribution.
In the Ballyseedy case, after a Free State officer was killed, nine anti-Treaty prisoners were randomly selected, brutally tortured and put to death in a vile fashion.
Tied to a landmine, their legs bound together above the knees, they were blown to smithereens. One man, Stephen Fuller, miraculously survived the explosion.
Dorothty Macardle's 'Tragedies of Kerry' is worth reading for an account of what happened at Ballyseedy. It also includes accounts of other horrifying acts of repression that the Free State used in order to crush Republican resistance.
Chilling response
The response of WT Cosgrave (Ireland's first Taoiseach) to the massacre was bloodthirsty and chilling. In February 1923, he announced that executions carried out by the State had a remarkable effect. 'It's a sad thing to say, but if the country is to live and we have to exterminate 10,000 republicans, the 3 millions of our people are bigger than the ten thousand.'
The head of the Free State National Army, Richard Mulcahy, who was also Minister for Defence, suggested that official executions deterred his troops from carrying out unofficial killings!
Outside of those thrown into a ditch with a bullet between their eyes or blown to pieces by mines, by the end of the Civil War the government judicially had executed 77 men – this was 53 more than the British executed during the War of Independence.
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:05:01 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 01:46:01 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 09:42:14 AM
Quote from: grounded on May 09, 2021, 10:58:00 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/sean_murray1/status/1391488467813679104?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391488467813679104%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
There is a lot more mileage in this story.
It just confirms what any reasonable and balanced person knows. There is an orchestrated campaign by MSM in the FS to denigrate SF at every opportunity, this is directed by or at the very least facilitated by RTE/Indo/Times.
Then you have eejits like this fella on here pretending it's all a conspiracy theory..
Quote from: Hound on April 15, 2021, 12:05:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 15, 2021, 11:42:26 AM
If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.
That's not what I said.
But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.
In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.
Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
Most people don't quote him mouview, so all those of us that ignore him don't get to read his vile mentally-deranged loner nonsense.
Agree with you totally about Cullinane.
I had no idea (nor do I care) what views/positions Eoghan Harris holds, because he's an Indo man and I do my best to ignore everything about that rag.
I listened to his rambling interview on RTE radio. Interesting that he's been on RTE once in the last two years, and he believes he never gets invited because he would damage Sinn Fein. So if RTE have an anti-SF campaign they were certainly missing a trick. Also, Sarah McInerney, who wiped the floor with Harris, must not have been informed of this anti-SF agenda!!
But as I said before, anyone who thinks that FF and FG don't get criticised on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media and that SF suffer only criticism on Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media are people who don't read/watch Irish Times / RTE / Virgin Media.
And anyone who thinks that the establishment media didn't go after Sinn Fein in a hugely much more aggressive way than against other parties in the run up to the last general election has their head stuck up their arse. When they were done using the Quinn family to beat up Mary Lou they dropped their case as soon as that family were of no use to them.
Again, someone who doesn't read the Irish Times and doesn't watch political programs on RTÉ and Virgin picking one topic that suits their agenda and ignores every critical item ever done on FF and FG.
I get you're in the bowels of 'us against the establishment' and you get to pick and choose what you read or what you're fed. You're very quick to point out when unionists come up with conspiracy nonsense on the same level as this for their agenda!
So you think all parties got same treatment in run up to last general election from the media? Because if you do you have zero credibility. You yourself said you wouldn't read the sindo so I presume you are open to the possibility that there are agendas at play in the Media?
SF got criticism in the last election, a lot of it deserved, some of it over the top, some of it completely unfair.
FG got criticism over (for example) the housing crisis in the last election. A lot of it deserved because they didn't do all they said the yet. But some of it unfair as some narratives were they created/invented it.
You take SF criticism very personally. As if they should be exempt from criticism. You completely ignore criticism given to FG and FF. Therefore of course you see unfairness!
The Harris interview. Harris made a disparaging remark about SF getting various Twitter accounts deleted. How do you explain the RTE interviewer saying he was 'completely ridiculous' (or something along those line)? She could have agreed, she could have let it go unchallenged. But in reality there is no anti-SF policy in RTÉ. But they're absolutely not exempt from criticism
I don't take SF criticism personally. If during election people wanted to pull up their manifesto and critique it, call it nonsense or whatever then no problem. However they dragged up a murder in armagh and used a grieving family like pawns. SF getting grief for having a twitter account in Europe or keeping a list of voters yet when another party simultaneously is out deleting websites not a peep. Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months. Did any other party get that, do example when An Taoiseach was breaking rules at an opening in Cork and blatantly ignoring rules live on camera?.
FG were in government, asking them about their record on homelessness is fair. If SF gets into government it will be fair to ask them.
BTW, McInerney is a fine journalist and I think will be fair unlike many others with numerous family links to FF and FG, miriam and tubridy for example.
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
They did indeed and guys like Hound will eulogise the men who carried out those atrocities while pretending to take some sort of moral stand against "uppity nordies" who should know their place.
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 03:40:52 PM
I don't take SF criticism personally. If during election people wanted to pull up their manifesto and critique it, call it nonsense or whatever then no problem. However they dragged up a murder in armagh and used a grieving family like pawns. SF getting grief for having a twitter account in Europe or keeping a list of voters yet when another party simultaneously is out deleting websites not a peep. Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months. Did any other party get that, do example when An Taoiseach was breaking rules at an opening in Cork and blatantly ignoring rules live on camera?.
FG were in government, asking them about their record on homelessness is fair. If SF gets into government it will be fair to ask them.
BTW, McInerney is a fine journalist and I think will be fair unlike many others with numerous family links to FF and FG, miriam and tubridy for example.
SF didnt want the Armagh murder brought up. Doesn't mean bringing it up is an anti-SF agenda.
I don't buy the "grieving family like pawns" bit even slightly. That's deflection.
It's like saying the media don't actually give a crap about the poor homeless when they tackle FG about it.
The Storey funeral was a ridiculous high profile mistake. You can't for one minute say they did not deserve criticism for it.
However " Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months" is a gross exaggeration!! At least in the media I was following there was no "wall to wall coverage for months".
The story did keep rumbling from time to time, but that was purely because Arlene widened it to talk about prosecutions and then police etc. It was news, but still covered much less down south than up north.
Do you really believe what the Taoiseach did was the same? If you do then fair enough, but I don't. Mary Lou (nor anyone else) wasn't calling for him to be prosecuted, if they did, it would have got wall to wall coverage.
SF get a hard time because of their past. Is that fair? Maybe not. It gets less as the new breed come into the party and the old stagers leave. FF still get a hard time over the financial crisis and the brown envelopes, even though most of the guilty have left, but that's also diminishing with time.
But no doubt there's an element of conspiracy theory in saying FF and FG don't get criticised from the mainstream media. Stephen Donnelly doesn't get criticised? What about every Minister for Health since Martin??? What about housing - FG not get criticised about that? It's just not true.
And Mary Lou has received a huge amount of airtime on RTE during the Covid crisis. Rightly so. But you seem to ignore that. To suggest RTE have a bias/agenda against her, is just silly.
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which
didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
The border probably.
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 04:50:16 PM
Quote from: Itchy on May 10, 2021, 03:40:52 PM
I don't take SF criticism personally. If during election people wanted to pull up their manifesto and critique it, call it nonsense or whatever then no problem. However they dragged up a murder in armagh and used a grieving family like pawns. SF getting grief for having a twitter account in Europe or keeping a list of voters yet when another party simultaneously is out deleting websites not a peep. Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months. Did any other party get that, do example when An Taoiseach was breaking rules at an opening in Cork and blatantly ignoring rules live on camera?.
FG were in government, asking them about their record on homelessness is fair. If SF gets into government it will be fair to ask them.
BTW, McInerney is a fine journalist and I think will be fair unlike many others with numerous family links to FF and FG, miriam and tubridy for example.
SF didnt want the Armagh murder brought up. Doesn't mean bringing it up is an anti-SF agenda.
I don't buy the "grieving family like pawns" bit even slightly. That's deflection.
It's like saying the media don't actually give a crap about the poor homeless when they tackle FG about it.
The Storey funeral was a ridiculous high profile mistake. You can't for one minute say they did not deserve criticism for it.
However " Bobby Storey Wall to wall coverage for months" is a gross exaggeration!! At least in the media I was following there was no "wall to wall coverage for months".
The story did keep rumbling from time to time, but that was purely because Arlene widened it to talk about prosecutions and then police etc. It was news, but still covered much less down south than up north.
Do you really believe what the Taoiseach did was the same? If you do then fair enough, but I don't. Mary Lou (nor anyone else) wasn't calling for him to be prosecuted, if they did, it would have got wall to wall coverage.
SF get a hard time because of their past. Is that fair? Maybe not. It gets less as the new breed come into the party and the old stagers leave. FF still get a hard time over the financial crisis and the brown envelopes, even though most of the guilty have left, but that's also diminishing with time.
But no doubt there's an element of conspiracy theory in saying FF and FG don't get criticised from the mainstream media. Stephen Donnelly doesn't get criticised? What about every Minister for Health since Martin??? What about housing - FG not get criticised about that? It's just not true.
And Mary Lou has received a huge amount of airtime on RTE during the Covid crisis. Rightly so. But you seem to ignore that. To suggest RTE have a bias/agenda against her, is just silly.
We will have to agree to disagree as there is no scientific way to measure this, my gut tells me all parties are not treated equally in the south yours say not true.
Interesting that FF have a tweet up commemorating an IRA gunman and killer today.
Of course the usual stooges who decry SF and their links to Provos will be on defending that.
And when the double standards are pointed out they will run off into the sunset because there is no credible justification for it.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that
current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
Quote from: Itchy on May 11, 2021, 08:58:30 AM
We will have to agree to disagree as there is no scientific way to measure this, my gut tells me all parties are not treated equally in the south yours say not true.
That's fair itchy.
I'm not denying that SF get treated harshly at times by IT, RTE and VM, but so do FG and FF at times. And the other parties. But totally agree that it is difficult to measure and of course the tabloids and social media muddy things completely in all directions!
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:12:54 AM
Quote from: Itchy on May 11, 2021, 08:58:30 AM
We will have to agree to disagree as there is no scientific way to measure this, my gut tells me all parties are not treated equally in the south yours say not true.
That's fair itchy.
I'm not denying that SF get treated harshly at times by IT, RTE and VM, but so do FG and FF at times. And the other parties. But totally agree that it is difficult to measure and of course the tabloids and social media muddy things completely in all directions!
False equivalence.
There's countless examples of the bias in the Irish media. Itchy pointed many of them out to you, I pointed many of them out to you and you ignored them because they don't fit in with your blinkered analysis.
Only a stooge would try and claim it's a level playing field.
I don't know why any SF supporter would complain about the vilification of SF in the Southern Media as it is so blatant that it has provided SF with a boost at the polls over the past few years. The bile of the political establishment and their tame media [by no means all media though] is such that they cannot control their instinctive reaction to demonise SF at every available opportunity.
All this does is magnify the corruption at the heart of the establishment in Dublin as far as I can see, so long may it continue as it will soon lead to SF becoming the biggest party in the Dail.
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
The old IRA didn't win. They never got what they wanted. They just sold out.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners, but turned their back on the rest of Ireland as they got what they wanted and didn't want the hassle
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
Fixed that ;)
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
Yes, the Old IRA had its (more than)) fair share of terrorists and get quick merchants- probably on a par with PIRA. My father was tooo young to fight in the war against the tans but he gave me his reminiscencesover the years as I was growing up and from what he and other s told me, for every genuine freedom fighter, there was at least one other who was motivated by greed or intent on sorting out old grievances.
(I'm referring to East Mayo here but II believe the same held true for the rest of the country as well.)
Shopkeepers and other property owners were forced to pay levies ostensibly for the war effort but there was no way of telling where the levies went. A few prosperous farmers were pointed out to me who were, nominally anyway, in ther IRA. They wound up far richer when the war ended than when it begun.
I was told that it was commoon knowledge that some of them never fires a shot in anger and took goood care that they were never callled upon to do so.
All in all, the Old IRA was a very mixed bag.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2021, 05:25:04 PM
Quote from: tiempo on May 10, 2021, 03:29:02 PM
The founding fathers of the Free State carried out atrocities far in excess of what the Provisionals would do decades later.
But the IRA killed an awful.lot of civilians and that usually has a bad look..
So did the Old IRA.
What is it about you free staters that doesn't allow ye to see the brazen hypocrisy.
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
To paraphrase, there was no difference in them other than one group wear beards and one group won and the other didn't. I can only presume then that in their actions they were the same?
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
The old IRA disappeared 4 times the number the Provisional IRA did.
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
The arrogant hypocrisy steaming off that post.
The Old IRA butchered 1500 of each other and another 500 citizens in its Civil War which only lasted a year!! I wouldn't expect someone as uneducated and ignorant as yourself to be in anyway informed on Irish history.
What did John Hume think of the Irish Civil War?
Are you proud of that?
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
The arrogant hypocrisy steaming off that post.
The Old IRA butchered 1500 of each other and another 500 citizens in its Civil War which only lasted a year!! I wouldn't expect someone as uneducated and ignorant as yourself to be in anyway informed on Irish history.
What did John Hume think of the Irish Civil War?
Are you proud of that?
You've served a ban from here recently and will be facing another shortly if you don't tone down your comments. Debate the point, don't stray into insulting people you know nothing about.
Quote from: mouview on May 11, 2021, 11:47:37 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 11:00:00 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
The arrogant hypocrisy steaming off that post.
The Old IRA butchered 1500 of each other and another 500 citizens in its Civil War which only lasted a year!! I wouldn't expect someone as uneducated and ignorant as yourself to be in anyway informed on Irish history.
What did John Hume think of the Irish Civil War?
Are you proud of that?
You've served a ban from here recently and will be facing another shortly if you don't tone down your comments. Debate the point, don't stray into insulting people you know nothing about.
Trying to get me banned now because I've exposed your backward views and contradictions?
Hopefully the mod can see some sense and ban you.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on May 11, 2021, 10:28:49 AM
The old IRA disappeared 4 times the number the Provisional IRA did.
Not true. They actually disappeared over 10 times the number of people that the PIRA did. The PIRA disappeared 14 people in a 30 year campaign. The Old IRA is estimated to have disappeared between 150-200 (mostly innocent) people in the space of two years. But apparently it's only the PIRA that were terrorists so that makes the Old IRA activities just fine and dandy.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
There is it. The single most stupid post ever contributed to gaaboard. Congratulations.
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
I didn't ask you what John Hume thinks. I aksed you to explain your view on why the Old IRA, which killed a higher proportion of civilians relative to combatants than the PIRA did, and which disappeared 10-15 times the number of people that the provos did (in around one tenth of the time), were not terrorists, but the PIRA were.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
I didn't ask you what John Hume thinks. I aksed you to explain your view on why the Old IRA, which killed a higher proportion of civilians relative to combatants than the PIRA did, and which disappeared 10-15 times the number of people that the provos did (in around one tenth of the time), were not terrorists, but the PIRA were.
Have you got stats for the Old IRA and civilians?
The PIRA seemed to be very good at killing catholics.
Some of the Free State revisionists should give this a read before they moralise and contradict themselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executions_during_the_Irish_Civil_War
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 12:13:01 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 10:01:45 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 11, 2021, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 06:10:55 PM
Quote from: Hound on May 10, 2021, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 10, 2021, 02:40:56 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 09:56:02 AM
When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?
"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?
The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.
1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?
Good man snapchap.
Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.
You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.
We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.
There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.
So you're deliberately and disingenuously missing the point. It's pathetic to think the Old IRA and the Provos were the same or very similar. You're not worthy of further discussion.
Just read about John Hume and why he thought the Old IRA was different to the Provos. In fact just read on both histories and it'll stare you right in the face. I'll leave you with the following from John Hume:
John Hume: The IRA has killed more than twice as many Catholics - the very people they claim to defend - as the British security forces have. ``Some defenders!'
I didn't ask you what John Hume thinks. I aksed you to explain your view on why the Old IRA, which killed a higher proportion of civilians relative to combatants than the PIRA did, and which disappeared 10-15 times the number of people that the provos did (in around one tenth of the time), were not terrorists, but the PIRA were.
Have you got stats for the Old IRA and civilians?
The PIRA seemed to be very good at killing catholics.
A point to note, the PIRA were at war with the British - not with protestants or catholics. I am not sure what the relevance of teh catholic death toll is. Anyway this thread is getting way off the point now, its about what a rag the SINDO is so mayve we should revert to that.
Quote from: Itchy on May 11, 2021, 02:12:39 PM
A point to note, the PIRA were at war with the British - not with protestants or catholics. I am not sure what the relevance of teh catholic death toll is. Anyway this thread is getting way off the point now, its about what a rag the SINDO is so mayve we should revert to that.
It is.
It's also obvious at which side of this debate brought in the PIRA to it. It's the likes of Hound and Mouview who inserted them there when they tried to justify media bias.
The when it was pointed out to them their support and justification of a organisation with a similar philosophy who killed and disappeared multiples of the number of civilians the PIRA did, they didn't think it worthwhile discussing.
It's faux outrage and faux moralising and it takes a nasty type of person to use victims to score points when the reality is they are happy to justify the same when they are aligned to that identity.
These type of people should be exposed at every opportunity.
Now that we have that established, let us return to the toxic publication that is the Indo.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
There is it. The single most stupid post ever contributed to gaaboard. Congratulations.
Typical nordie victim whinging
If you lot had a bit more Dan Breen about ye and a little less Freddie Stakeknife
Yed have been a lot further on
The reality is that what push came to shove in the war of independence you had the 6 northern counties hiding under the bed,
when the likes of Tom Barry was outnumbered 60 to 1 in West Cork and still carrying the fight to the British
The Nordies couldn't even create enough trouble in so called nationalist areas like Derry city or South Armagh to tie down British troops, never mind come to the aid of their under pressure southern brigades
Could the PIRA supporters explain to me how the Irish kennel club and the Le Mons hotel were part of a "war with the British".
Or Gardai Hand, Clerkin, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan.
Or Private Kelly
Or Senator Fox.
And what did continuing the War from 1974 to 1998 achieve?
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
There is it. The single most stupid post ever contributed to gaaboard. Congratulations.
Typical nordie victim whinging
If you lot had a bit more Dan Breen about ye and a little less Freddie Stakeknife
Yed have been a lot further on
The reality is that what push came to shove in the war of independence you had the 6 northern counties hiding under the bed,
when the likes of Tom Barry was outnumbered 60 to 1 in West Cork and still carrying the fight to the British
The Nordies couldn't even create enough trouble in so called nationalist areas like Derry city or South Armagh to tie down British troops, never mind come to the aid of their under pressure southern brigades
Is that you Eoghan?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2021, 02:42:51 PM
Could the PIRA supporters explain to me how the Irish kennel club and the Le Mons hotel were part of a "war with the British".
Or Gardai Hand, Clerkin, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan.
Or Private Kelly
Or Senator Fox.
And what did continuing the War from 1974 to 1998 achieve?
Could the above Old IRA supporter explain to me what murdering Maria Lindsay and Protestants in Dunmanway achieved?
Or the 200 disappeared during the War of Independence.
The gory civil war which cost 2k lives
The murder of 750 civilians during the War of Independence
The killings of elected TDs and Ministers during the Civil War (Kevin O'Higgins etc)
And was all that murder and bloodshed worth abandoning their northern brethren in a sectarian state where they watched state forces allow nationalist families be burn out of their homes by loyalists mobs, have British soldiers open fire on unarmed civilians in the streets of Derry and have intelligence collude with sectarian death squads to execute civilian families in their own homes?
I know the above poster has me on ignore. Because he's not much of a man who has the courage to really stand behind the moronic and small minded comments he makes.
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?
Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2021, 02:42:51 PM
Could the PIRA supporters explain to me how the Irish kennel club and the Le Mons hotel were part of a "war with the British".
Or Gardai Hand, Clerkin, Quaid, McCabe, Sheehan.
Or Private Kelly
Or Senator Fox.
And what did continuing the War from 1974 to 1998 achieve?
About as much as the Dunmanway Massacre did, would you say? Or did you actually think civilians weren't targetted by the Old IRA?
Poor Rossfan always leaves himself open.
Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.
It should be noted for the record that Rossfan REFUSES to condemn sectarian killings by the old IRA and has removed any credibility from his moral standpoint.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2021, 04:03:53 PM
Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.
This isn't a thread about 1969-1998 so it's a bizarre contention that you can't answer that question due to the timeline.
Why don't you answer the question rather than avoiding it. You like to dish it out but can't take it back.
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?
Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?
If that is the case, why are they not in government already? Think about it...
Quote from: mouview on May 11, 2021, 04:36:53 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 11, 2021, 03:38:26 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 02:33:11 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 10, 2021, 02:07:03 PM
Quote from: mouview on May 10, 2021, 01:43:22 PM
Like myself, I'm quite sure the vast majority of FG / FF members / politicians would desire to see a United Ireland. However, they are sensible and politically mature enough to see that it cannot be bludgeoned through or forced upon a section of society against their will, not without working out fully all of its implications. The chaos that Brexit has wrought is a very good example of what happens when a hasty and ill-thought out political venture is foisted upon a nation.
Why would they?
Do you think they want to handover control of the state they have had for 100 years. Last year the two sworn enemies of FF and FG held hands together and went into government in order to hold onto power and keep the other ones out.
I don't for a second think you believe any of what you typed, you only want to excuse the status quo.
If there is a UI, why should that automatically mean SF will be the government of the day in control of the state? Won't these things be decided by traditional democratic contests called 'elections'?
Naturally because they're the biggest party on the Island at the minute vote wise so would most likely be in government in a UI?
If that is the case, why are they not in government already? Think about it...
Because Ireland is partitioned.
Because the same generation who voted FF and FG for decades were the same generations who turned a blind eye to institutional child abuse.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2021, 04:03:53 PM
Answer the question straight Snap.
Then start a thread about 1919 to 1923.
I already did answer your question. My answer, as you no doubt read, was as follows:
"about as much as the Dunmanway Massacre".
Maybe you just missed that bit because you are just so thoroughly conditioned to turning a blind eye to atrocities carried out by the Old IRA out of a fear of having to confront your deeply rooted hypocrisy.
Besides, this thread isn't about the PIRA. If you want to talk about them, then sadly for you, that means the Old IRA are fair game to talk about too. Why are you so evasive when asked the same questions about the Old IRA as you ask others about the PIRA?
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Quote from: grounded on May 11, 2021, 02:51:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 11, 2021, 09:52:57 AM
The difference is the old IRA were led and manned by people from the South who drove the British out of the 26 counties,which led to the Republic and the modern European state it is today
They were winners
The provos were a collection of beardie Nordie rabble with guff about a socialist state,who were running to the British authorities at every opportunity to inform on each other.They also didn't achieve their aims of
Brits out of the North
NI is still in existence after all their attempts to overthrow it
They lost
There's the difference
There is it. The single most stupid post ever contributed to gaaboard. Congratulations.
Typical nordie victim whinging
If you lot had a bit more Dan Breen about ye and a little less Freddie Stakeknife
Yed have been a lot further on
The reality is that what push came to shove in the war of independence you had the 6 northern counties hiding under the bed,
when the likes of Tom Barry was outnumbered 60 to 1 in West Cork and still carrying the fight to the British
The Nordies couldn't even create enough trouble in so called nationalist areas like Derry city or South Armagh to tie down British troops, never mind come to the aid of their under pressure southern brigades
Is that you Eoghan?
That's the best the nordies on here can come up with it?
If you knew anything Harris you'd know he hated the "old" IRA as much as the provo's
Back on topic
The reality is the northern IRA couldnt eke out any bit of Territory in the 6 counties even in the most nationalist of areas
And your provos lost the war they were fighting
Because Ill say it slowly again
The Northern State is still in existence
As for the bleating about a death toll in the war of independence and nordie clowns pointing at the death toll
And again I'll say it slowly
It was a drumroll. war.
Because the south sold out.
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.
So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.
So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?
You are a hypocritical clown.
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
Why does every criticism of the Provo IRA always get answered by "but the Old IRA....." by their supporters?
Anyone from the 26 criticising the Provos is then told they're defending the Old IRA despite the fact that we didn't (except for the Laois buck naybe)
Snapchap couldn't give a straight answer and now he's off on the personal abuse thing.
Why does anything SF get turned into an IRA thing?
If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.
FF were commemorating an old IRA gunman today. Still living in the past etc etc.
It shows how weak of character Rossfan is. Then again he votes for a FG bagman but is too frightened to admit it.
We haven't heard you condemn the Old IRA. Interesting how you had no problem with murders and sectarian attacks committed for your freedom.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2021, 08:43:23 PM
Why does every criticism of the Provo IRA always get answered by "but the Old IRA....." by their supporters?
Anyone from the 26 criticising the Provos is then told they're defending the Old IRA despite the fact that we didn't (except for the Laois buck naybe)
Snapchap couldn't give a straight answer and now he's off on the personal abuse thing.
As I already said, this thread isn't about the PIRA. If you want to talk about them, then that means the Old IRA are fair game to talk about too.
So again; why are you so evasive when asked the same questions about the Old IRA as you ask others about the PIRA?
You asked what the likes of Kingsmills had to do with getting the British out of Ireland. I answered that it had about as much to do with that aim as the Dunmannway Massacre had. Yet you don't seem to talk about any such Old IRA atrocities. Funny that. Were the Old IRA terrorists or not?
Come back Eoghan Harris, all is forgiven!
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.
So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.
So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?
You are a hypocritical clown.
You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,
There are a good few things to address before the border poll.
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.
So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.
So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?
You are a hypocritical clown.
You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,
There are a good few things to address before the border poll.
Hypocrite.
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.
So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.
So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?
You are a hypocritical clown.
You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,
There are a good few things to address before the border poll.
Really, is that why these psychopaths got their kicks elsewhere after 1998?
Oh wait...
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties in a few years. The PIRA didn't.
So they got the job done except for the fact that they didn't? I don't think they set out to achieve partition, did they?
Besides, are you suggesting their aims justified the means? Because if the Old IRA killed at least the same proportion of civilians as the PIRA did, then how can that be ok, if you keep using the metric of civilian killings to explain your view that the PIRA were the terrorist psychopaths?
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
See above point. If the PIRA were psychopaths, then surely the Old IRA must have been too, since they killed at least the same proportion of civilians, and likely higher. If not, explain why.
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio.
Indeed. Fed a Section 31 managed version of events. Perhaps that's why some of you have such a warped understanding of what went on here. The real wonder is that few if any of you are prepared to consider the possibility that living under such state media censorship could potentially have adversely impacted your knowledge. In fact a hefty number of you seem to actually think you understand what went on here better than those of us who lived through it, because you watched the news updates.
Seafoid you are all over the place. Your cryptic cherry picking would embarrass the DUP.
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 09:31:18 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 11, 2021, 08:27:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 11, 2021, 07:38:51 PM
Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375
PIRA civilians murdered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians
4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5. Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)
Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.
Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.
So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.
So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?
You are a hypocritical clown.
You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,
There are a good few things to address before the border poll.
From where? RTE radio of BBC?
Neither give a true reflection of what was going on up here and for every Ballymurphy or bloody Sunday there's dozens of other incidents where innocent people were shot by those in uniform so the psychopaths wore uniforms and grey suites up in Stormont.
Turns out Eoghan Harris wasn't even a friend of David Irvine either.
https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/12/news/eoghan-harris-s-claim-he-was-friends-with-david-ervine-complete-fantasy--2318787/?param=ds441rif44T (https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/12/news/eoghan-harris-s-claim-he-was-friends-with-david-ervine-complete-fantasy--2318787/?param=ds441rif44T)
The man lives in a fantasy world and needed professional help then and now but too many around him tolerated his obsessions as it probably suited their narrative as well.
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
High profile northern journalist Allison Morris has joined Paul Larkin and Prof Colin Harvey in legal action against Eoghan Harris to try to discover who else is behind the various Twitter accounts that Harris ran.
Can you think of a few people who've been very quiet this week?
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Eoin Harris never talked about ethnic cleansing in Dunmanway.
He never criticised the Old IRA.
It's you who is trotting out Eoghan Harris and his airbrushed version of history.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Rather sad to see Provo supporters taking the word of those 2 cnuts as gospel.
And repeating it ad nauseam to avoid having to give a straight answer re Le Mons, murders of Gardai, bank robberies, sectarian killing of Senator Fox, disgraceful cowardly act in Warrington etc etc.
Dan Breen or the Cork Brigade executing informers is no justification for those actions.
Most of the informers in 1920/21 were unmasked by Collins' spies in the Castle.
In contrast the Provos Informer catcher was the biggest Informer of all.
Quote from: Angelo on May 12, 2021, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Eoin Harris never talked about ethnic cleansing in Dunmanway.
He never criticised the Old IRA.
It's you who is trotting out Eoghan Harris and his airbrushed version of history.
You are showing yourself to be clearly clueless in relation to Eoghan (not Eoin) Harris
A quick google search will show you that he is a virulent critic of the Southern Winning IRA and has taken Harts side in the likes of Dunmanway,Coolacrease and the surrender myth of Kilmichael.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Rather sad to see Provo supporters taking the word of those 2 cnuts as gospel.
And repeating it ad nauseam to avoid having to give a straight answer re Le Mons, murders of Gardai, bank robberies, sectarian killing of Senator Fox, disgraceful cowardly act in Warrington etc etc.
Dan Breen or the Cork Brigade executing informers is no justification for those actions.
Most of the informers in 1920/21 were unmasked by Collins' spies in the Castle.
In contrast the Provos Informer catcher was the biggest Informer of all.
IMO at lot of those atrocities mentioned, Le Mon (even if squaddies did drink in it), Warrington and the murders certain Gardai members were wrong or badly carried out with little or no warning and should not have happened but they did. I can't justify them and won't try to just like you are right to not justify what Breen did and Collins ordered others to do.
When you say unmasked by Collins' spies, was it something like Scooby doo or did something more sinister happen to them?
did these informers just walk away, far cop guvnor or were they slaughtered in their beds in front of their wives and children?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Rather sad to see Provo supporters taking the word of those 2 cnuts as gospel.
And repeating it ad nauseam to avoid having to give a straight answer re Le Mons, murders of Gardai, bank robberies, sectarian killing of Senator Fox, disgraceful cowardly act in Warrington etc etc.
Dan Breen or the Cork Brigade executing informers is no justification for those actions.
Most of the informers in 1920/21 were unmasked by Collins' spies in the Castle.
In contrast the Provos Informer catcher was the biggest Informer of all.
Angelo siding with Peter Hart and Eoghan Harris says it all about his partionist mentality
Both proven to be liars and fabricators as to what happened in the war of independence
Both would die happy if Ireland was still under British rule
Yer man is trying a little too hard.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 03:49:19 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 12, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 11, 2021, 08:39:48 PM
The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.
There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.
Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.
You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway
Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time
Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.
Rather sad to see Provo supporters taking the word of those 2 cnuts as gospel.
And repeating it ad nauseam to avoid having to give a straight answer re Le Mons, murders of Gardai, bank robberies, sectarian killing of Senator Fox, disgraceful cowardly act in Warrington etc etc.
Dan Breen or the Cork Brigade executing informers is no justification for those actions.
Most of the informers in 1920/21 were unmasked by Collins' spies in the Castle.
In contrast the Provos Informer catcher was the biggest Informer of all.
So you're now justifying the sectarian murders down in Cork?
https://www.historyireland.com/volume-22/massacre-west-cork-dunmanway-ballygorman-killings/
Johnny C, an awful lot of them were identified in correspondence spotted in Dublin Castle.
They got short shrift once they were apprehended.
But even if Collins, Breen,Barry etc were total psychopaths it still didn't give the Provos carte blanche for blowing passers by to bits, or murdering Gardai, or the sectarian murder of Senator Fox etc.
If I'm done for speeding not much point telling the Guard that his oul fella used to beak the speed limit.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 04:26:12 PM
Johnny C, an awful lot of them were identified in correspondence spotted in Dublin Castle.
They got short shrift once they were apprehended.
But even if Collins, Breen,Barry etc were total psychopaths it still didn't give the Provos carte blanche for blowing passers by to bits, or murdering Gardai, or the sectarian murder of Senator Fox etc.
If I'm done for speeding not much point telling the Guard that his oul fella used to beak the speed limit.
Except your father was a hoor for speeding and you are denying he was speeding at all.
Even if he allegedly was it still doesn't excuse me speeding.
Quote from: Pub Bore on May 12, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
High profile northern journalist Allison Morris has joined Paul Larkin and Prof Colin Harvey in legal action against Eoghan Harris to try to discover who else is behind the various Twitter accounts that Harris ran.
Can you think of a few people who've been very quiet this week?
Aoife Moore has issued proceedings as well. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I assume any of the other contributors to these accounts will be outed.
Hopefully. The whole thing is bonkers.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Even if he allegedly was it still doesn't excuse me speeding.
It's not allegedly. That's the bit that sticks in your throat.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Even if he allegedly was it still doesn't excuse me speeding.
If you think it's wrong to speed now, wouldn't it be just as wrong for your granda to have done so?
If killing civilians in a conflict was wrong now, wasn't killing just as big if not a bigger proportion of civilians also wrong when your granda was involved in a conflict?
Quote from: imtommygunn on May 12, 2021, 05:55:19 PM
Hopefully. The whole thing is bonkers.
More bizarre by the hour.
The boul Eoghan going to represent himself as ' he can't afford legal representation '.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/ill-see-them-in-court-eoghan-harris-to-fight-lawsuits-from-journalists-over-anonymous-tweets-40420053.html
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Even if he allegedly was it still doesn't excuse me speeding.
If you think it's wrong to speed now, wouldn't it be just as wrong for your granda to have done so?
If killing civilians in a conflict was wrong now, wasn't killing just as big if not a bigger proportion of civilians also wrong when your granda was involved in a conflict?
Bit of a difference between a Civilian who is giving info to the Tans and a poor individual going about their business when a bomb goes off.
As I said before even if Collins, Barry etc were total murdering psychopaths it still doesn't excuse some of the disgraceful things Provos did.
Sectarian murder Senator Fox?
Any views?
No if their supporters could only realise that...
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 12, 2021, 06:00:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 05:09:15 PM
Even if he allegedly was it still doesn't excuse me speeding.
If you think it's wrong to speed now, wouldn't it be just as wrong for your granda to have done so?
If killing civilians in a conflict was wrong now, wasn't killing just as big if not a bigger proportion of civilians also wrong when your granda was involved in a conflict?
Bit of a difference between a Civilian who is giving info to the Tans and a poor individual going about their business when a bomb goes off.
As I said before even if Collins, Barry etc were total murdering psychopaths it still doesn't excuse some of the disgraceful things Provos did.
Sectarian murder Senator Fox?
Any views?
No if their supporters could only realise that...
So the only civilians the Old IRA killed were informers? Ellen Morris, a 54 year old mother of 15 children, murdered in her own home. If the perpetrator had been the PIRA 50 years later, you'd no doubt have used her name as en example of the "terrorists" the Provos were. But she was murdered by the Old IRA. So it's "Move along. Nothing to see here".
Recently, audio tapes were uncovered Martin Corry (former FF TD who died in 1979) laughed and joked about torture and executions he and his Old IRA comrades carried out in a "torture vault" nicknamed 'Sing Sing' in Cork and how they buried "countless" bodies in the nearby bog known as "The Rea". Move along. Nothing to see here.
You talk about sectarian murders carried out by the PIRA but frantically try to attack and demean anyone who brings up The Dunmanway Massacre. I assume you probably don't want anyone talking about things like the 83 year old John Northridge, beaten to death for being a Protestant in Cork?
I'm not the one defending wrongs done by the old IRA but you and the other Provo supporters won't accept criticism of your heroes.
Your only reaction is But the old IRA....
From what I've read of Dunmanway (not Harris) some were said to be informers, more was likely naked sectarianism but didn't Collins or other Senior people go down and stopped it?
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 11:50:50 PM
I'm not the one defending wrongs done by the old IRA but you and the other Provo supporters won't accept criticism of your heroes.
Your only reaction is But the old IRA....
From what I've read of Dunmanway (not Harris) some were said to be informers, more was likely naked sectarianism but didn't Collins or other Senior people go down and stopped it?
I've often criticised certain PIRA actions as unjustifiable and have no problem whatsoever in doing so. Seems to me as more a case that many southern posters here will refuse to criticise the Old IRA and get very defensive when their own metrics for applying the "terrorists" label to the PIRA are found to be equally suited to the Old IRA. My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 11:50:50 PM
I'm not the one defending wrongs done by the old IRA but you and the other Provo supporters won't accept criticism of your heroes.
Your only reaction is But the old IRA....
From what I've read of Dunmanway (not Harris) some were said to be informers, more was likely naked sectarianism but didn't Collins or other Senior people go down and stopped it?
Where's your condemnation of the Old IRA though? Never seen any of it.
You will vilify the PIRA but your sanctimonious virtue signaling runs hollow when you are probed about how sincere your values actually are.
Then again, you vote for a FG bagman so this sort of stuff is to be expected.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 04:26:12 PM
Johnny C, an awful lot of them were identified in correspondence spotted in Dublin Castle.
They got short shrift once they were apprehended.
But even if Collins, Breen,Barry etc were total psychopaths it still didn't give the Provos carte blanche for blowing passers by to bits, or murdering Gardai, or the sectarian murder of Senator Fox etc.
If I'm done for speeding not much point telling the Guard that his oul fella used to beak the speed limit.
My god, you'll say anything other than the fact that they were murdered, short shrift indeed, a smack round the ear was it?
They were executed by the Army of Dáil Éireann.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 13, 2021, 12:25:33 PM
They were executed by the Army of Dáil Éireann.
Tell me about Kevin O'Higgins. Tell us about when the FF IRA went and murdered a sitting FG IRA minister.
Are you ignorant of your state's own bloody history or just embarrassed by it?
Quote from: Snapchap on May 13, 2021, 12:00:34 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 12, 2021, 11:50:50 PM
I'm not the one defending wrongs done by the old IRA but you and the other Provo supporters won't accept criticism of your heroes.
Your only reaction is But the old IRA....
From what I've read of Dunmanway (not Harris) some were said to be informers, more was likely naked sectarianism but didn't Collins or other Senior people go down and stopped it?
I've often criticised certain PIRA actions as unjustifiable and have no problem whatsoever in doing so. Seems to me as more a case that many southern posters here will refuse to criticise the Old IRA and get very defensive when their own metrics for applying the "terrorists" label to the PIRA are found to be equally suited to the Old IRA. My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.
+1
Have to totally agree
Quote from: Snapchap on May 13, 2021, 12:00:34 AM
My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.
You're impossibly deluded
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 11:39:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 13, 2021, 12:00:34 AM
My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.
You're impossibly deluded
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 11:58:16 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 11:39:50 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 13, 2021, 12:00:34 AM
My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.
You're impossibly deluded
You accused me of being "into dead children" and made a false allegation that another poster accused you of child rape. Stop trying to engage with me, you lowlife.
You just keep reminding people of what you're into, like a good lad!
Bombing Harrods
Terrorism or not terrorism?
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
It would be great if they could commemorate some of the unfashionable ones through fashion
Brendan Burns
Thomas Begley
The lads who kidnapped Shergar
Mickey McKevitt
And you can't cut the INLA out of this, that would be airbrushing history
Gerard Steenson surely deserves one
And what about the IPLO? I want me a nice Jimmy Brown commemorative jersey
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Ah it's Dublin7. The man who says it was wrong of the IRA to plant bombs in England and that the PIRA bombing London's Docklands was "terrorism", but then when he finds out that Michael Collins ordered the bombing of Liverpool docks, proclaims that that was just, and I quote: "taking the war to the occupier".
Halfwit ::)
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Ah it's Dublin7. The man who says it was wrong of the IRA to plant bombs in England and that the PIRA bombing London's Docklands was "terrorism", but then when he finds out that Michael Collins ordered the bombing of Liverpool docks, proclaims that that was just, and I quote: "taking the war to the occupier".
Halfwit ::)
Was Warrington wrong?
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Ah it's Dublin7. The man who says it was wrong of the IRA to plant bombs in England and that the PIRA bombing London's Docklands was "terrorism", but then when he finds out that Michael Collins ordered the bombing of Liverpool docks, proclaims that that was just, and I quote: "taking the war to the occupier".
Halfwit ::)
Was Warrington wrong?
Collins fought to remove an occupying force from Ireland.
The French resistance fought to remove the Nazis from occupied France. Both Collins and the French resistance are admired and respected by the people of Ireland and France. That's probably because the old IRA didn't focus their campaign in England and the French resistance didn't launch a bombing campaign in Germany and they actually achieved something.
The PIRA from the 70s don't have anything close to that respect. Even Bobby Sands is remembered for the hunger strike and not his PIRA terrorist acts.
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:40:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Ah it's Dublin7. The man who says it was wrong of the IRA to plant bombs in England and that the PIRA bombing London's Docklands was "terrorism", but then when he finds out that Michael Collins ordered the bombing of Liverpool docks, proclaims that that was just, and I quote: "taking the war to the occupier".
Halfwit ::)
Was Warrington wrong?
Collins fought to remove an occupying force from Ireland.
The French resistance fought to remove the Nazis from occupied France. Both Collins and the French resistance are admired and respected by the people of Ireland and France. That's probably because the old IRA didn't focus their campaign in England and the French resistance didn't launch a bombing campaign in Germany
The PIRA from the 70s don't have anything close to that respect. Even Bobby Sands is remembered for the hunger strike and not his PIRA terrorist acts.
Away and crawl under a rock you dope before you make a show of yourself any further.
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 12:42:55 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:40:59 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on May 15, 2021, 12:30:14 PM
Quote from: Snapchap on May 15, 2021, 12:18:54 PM
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
Ah it's Dublin7. The man who says it was wrong of the IRA to plant bombs in England and that the PIRA bombing London's Docklands was "terrorism", but then when he finds out that Michael Collins ordered the bombing of Liverpool docks, proclaims that that was just, and I quote: "taking the war to the occupier".
Halfwit ::)
Was Warrington wrong?
Collins fought to remove an occupying force from Ireland.
The French resistance fought to remove the Nazis from occupied France. Both Collins and the French resistance are admired and respected by the people of Ireland and France. That's probably because the old IRA didn't focus their campaign in England and the French resistance didn't launch a bombing campaign in Germany
The PIRA from the 70s don't have anything close to that respect. Even Bobby Sands is remembered for the hunger strike and not his PIRA terrorist acts.
Away and crawl under a rock you dope before you make a show of yourself any further.
Oh he's got you there dublin7
Court case scheduled for early next month. It will be interesting to see who else was involved with these sock puppet accounts. I assume all will be revealed!
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/eoghan-harris-barbara-j-pym-was-no-trolling-account-1.4565404?mode=amp
Quote from: dublin7 on May 15, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
O'Neills have released a new jersey to comemerate Michael Collins and apparently it's providing very popular.
https://www.oneills.com/michael-collins-commemoration-jersey-green-gold-white.html
I personally won't be buying it as I think it's a bit tacky but seeing as the northern posters keep comparing the old IRA to the 70s version which IRA volunteer do they think will be the first to have a commemorative jersey?
What like the Bobby sands one?
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
So what's acceptable?
When a poster mentions the PIRA another poster is not allowed mention the Old IRA?
How is that fair?
Should the likes of Rossfan, Trailer, Seafoid, Dublin7, Hound etc have action taken against them as they consistently introduce the PIRA into threads where they have little relevance?
I'm genuinely interested as to how you intend to handle this. I can give you numerous examples of Rossfan shoehorning something about the PIRA into a thread it had nothing to do with? How do you intend on dealing with that in future?
I'll be back later on.
I did not follow threads closely this week, but a quick glance shows an old feud was reborn, with direct quotes from the original feud resurfacing.
Appropriate action will follow.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 11:02:13 PM
I'll be back later on.
I did not follow threads closely this week, but a quick glance shows an old feud was reborn, with direct quotes from the original feud resurfacing.
Appropriate action will follow.
Good.
I hope you deal with the trolling from Rossfan, Dublin7, Seafoid etc.
Particularly trailer as you seem to ignore the incessant insults he doles out on this board.
Go to bed Angelo
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Are the board moderators going to censor the discussion if it doesn't agree with their agenda?
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 16, 2021, 12:02:43 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Are the board moderators going to censor the discussion if it doesn't agree with their agenda?
No.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 16, 2021, 12:52:22 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 16, 2021, 12:02:43 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Are the board moderators going to censor the discussion if it doesn't agree with their agenda?
No.
So a select cabal of posters can try and pollute every thread by talking about the PIRA but when they do that, other posters are then disallowed from posting about the old IRA?
Hardly seems fair that Rossfan, Dublin7, Trailer and co are allowed spam threads with their agenda driven nonsense without any consequences.
Quote from: Angelo on May 16, 2021, 08:55:20 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 16, 2021, 12:52:22 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 16, 2021, 12:02:43 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Are the board moderators going to censor the discussion if it doesn't agree with their agenda?
No.
So a select cabal of posters can try and pollute every thread by talking about the PIRA but when they do that, other posters are then disallowed from posting about the old IRA?
Hardly seems fair that Rossfan, Dublin7, Trailer and co are allowed spam threads with their agenda driven nonsense without any consequences.
As long as posters follow the rules on posting, there will be no consequences. It might be nonsense in your head, but that doesn't mean they should be censured.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 16, 2021, 09:35:23 AM
Quote from: Angelo on May 16, 2021, 08:55:20 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 16, 2021, 12:52:22 AM
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 16, 2021, 12:02:43 AM
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on May 15, 2021, 10:49:36 PM
Don't even think about bringing the Old IRA v PIRA thread discussion here.
Are the board moderators going to censor the discussion if it doesn't agree with their agenda?
No.
So a select cabal of posters can try and pollute every thread by talking about the PIRA but when they do that, other posters are then disallowed from posting about the old IRA?
Hardly seems fair that Rossfan, Dublin7, Trailer and co are allowed spam threads with their agenda driven nonsense without any consequences.
As long as posters follow the rules on posting, there will be no consequences. It might be nonsense in your head, but that doesn't mean they should be censured.
So let me get this straight.
If I go into threads and start posting about the Old IRA when it bears no relevance to the thread you will do nothing about it? I doubt it yet you facilitate these posters to constantly bring every thread down the same rabbit hole.
Because there's a cabal of 5/6 posters who incessantly try to turn every thread into a SF/PIRA bashing subject. But dare anyone try to and show that for the faux, insincere and deflection tactics it is.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eoghan-harris-wife-dolly-white-twitter-account-based-dog-g90989vnt
Twas the wife your honour!
That's the first of the other contributor's linked to Eoghan Harris's anonymous twitter accounts.
I think there are 9 people taking legal action now.
One of the Harris accounts NorthernWhig I think it was had 20 followers.
4 of them were prominent Irish journalists.
David Davin Power - RTE
Mick Clifford - Examiner
Kieran McGreevy - Irish Times
Ben Lowry - Newsletter
Says a lot about the standards you'd expect.
Quote from: Angelo on May 16, 2021, 07:42:45 PM
One of the Harris accounts NorthernWhig I think it was had 20 followers.
4 of them were prominent Irish journalists.
David Davin Power - RTE
Mick Clifford - Examiner
Kieran McGreevy - Irish Times
Ben Lowry - Newsletter
Says a lot about the standards you'd expect.
Harris had a big constituency opposed to reunification but they will probably be on the losing side of history.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nine-take-legal-action-against-twitter-attacks-linked-to-eoghan-harris-kgtqwg836
Sorry that was the link.