Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Last Man]

Some interesting points in this US Senate committee hearing.

[Last Man]

Some interesting points in this US Senate committee hearing.

https://youtu.be/QAHi3lX3oGM

[Evil Genius]

Some interesting points in this US Senate committee hearing.

https://youtu.be/QAHi3lX3oGM

Very interesting - I wonder whether this ignoring of the benefits of treatment is because the Health Insurance companies didn't want to pay for it?

Anyhow, should this properly be moved to the China Virus thread, since it concentrates on treatment of people who are ill with Covid, rather than vaccination to prevent people getting it?

[Rossfan]

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0323/1205557-coronavirus-astrazeneca/

[Louther]

EG - on the Astra Vaccine my understanding of their manufacturing schedule is that in their contract for funding the UK inserted a clause that their order must be met from domestic supply and until this is done, no exports allowed. This was a condition of their funding and the US also inserted it into their funding agreements in US. The EU did not.

Therefore none of the vaccine manufactured in UK has been exported. This hasn't been the case with EU manufacturing and they have exported from EU into UK to meet its orders there. The EU have no export clause and are now looking at an export ban.

The effect of this was zero UK manufactured Astra vaccines shipped to EU while almost 10m vaccines have been exported from EU.

It doesn't excuse the slow roll out across EU and why many remain in storage.
This was been reported last week.

[trailer]

We need a vaccine for stupidity. Start with EU leaders

[Evil Genius]

EG - on the Astra Vaccine my understanding of their manufacturing schedule is that in their contract for funding the UK inserted a clause that their order must be met from domestic supply and until this is done, no exports allowed. This was a condition of their funding and the US also inserted it into their funding agreements in US. The EU did not.

Therefore none of the vaccine manufactured in UK has been exported. This hasn't been the case with EU manufacturing and they have exported from EU into UK to meet its orders there. The EU have no export clause and are now looking at an export ban.

The effect of this was zero UK manufactured Astra vaccines shipped to EU while almost 10m vaccines have been exported from EU.

It doesn't excuse the slow roll out across EU and why many remain in storage.
This was been reported last week.

At worst, that means that the Commission buggered up in drawing up the contracts - you can hardly blame the UK for that.

Whilst AZ's production problems occurred in their Netherlands plant in Leiden, not their UK facilities.

Why would the UK send vaccines to the EU which are being used by the day at home, when (a ) supplies from the continent to the UK are at risk, and (b ) the EU isn't even using the stocks they have?

This is all one giant arse-covering exercise by the Commission, and the minority (emphasise) of EU members which suspended AZ vaccine use unnecessarily - "If you can't defend, deflect."

It doesn't excuse the slow roll out across EU and why many remain in storage.

Yep, I was speaking to a guy who lives in Nerja, Spain earlier.

The Spanish, who've suffered a very high death rate in the pandemic, are still only half-way through vaccinating the over-80's at the moment, while at 66, he doesn't expect to get his jab until September!

[Louther]

I don't blame UK, they doing what they've had to do. Made a balls of a lot of things but the vaccine roll out isn't one.

And I don't think it's the UK call to issue or not deliver into EU from their manufacturing. They have Astra contractually to make this decision for them. Eg Astra make 1million doses, UK order for 1.5m, EU order for 1.5m. Without contracts. Astra could say ok - .5m each to Uk and Eu but they don't have to make that call. All stays in UK.

While this has been missed from EU side, they have said, morally correct or not, that they consider the vaccine roll out been fair across all nations as been the only way to eliminate and that not allowing export damages this. Not sure if this is a way of covering their ass or was the genuine rationale in first place.

[trailer]

Heard from a pretty reliable source that Covid passports are going to be a thing for travel. UK government have it pretty much organised.

[armaghniac]

Whilst AZ's production problems occurred in their Netherlands plant in Leiden, not their UK facilities.

Why would the UK send vaccines to the EU which are being used by the day at home, when (a ) supplies from the continent to the UK are at risk, and (b ) the EU isn't even using the stocks they have?

Because you cannot say, unless using typical unionist logic, you send us your vaccines but we won't send you any.

This is all one giant arse-covering exercise by the Commission,

It is, but it is also an attempt to get people vaccinated and save lives. Presumably, you'd be happy to let people die to teach the Commission a lesson.

and the minority (emphasise) of EU members which suspended AZ vaccine use unnecessarily -

At this stage most of that gap has already been made up. Change the record.

Yep, I was speaking to a guy who lives in Nerja, Spain earlier.

The Spanish, who've suffered a very high death rate in the pandemic, are still only half-way through vaccinating the over-80's at the moment, while at 66, he doesn't expect to get his jab until September!

Spain will rev up the pace as supply increases. Everyone in Spain like every other part of the EU will be vaccinated in August, never mind September.
On an aside, some parts of Spain have a substantial proportion of the population with immunity, having had the virus when it was at its peak.

[Evil Genius]

Whilst AZ's production problems occurred in their Netherlands plant in Leiden, not their UK facilities.

Why would the UK send vaccines to the EU which are being used by the day at home, when (a ) supplies from the continent to the UK are at risk, and (b ) the EU isn't even using the stocks they have?

Because you cannot say, unless using typical unionist logic, you send us your vaccines but we won't send you any.

This is all one giant arse-covering exercise by the Commission,

It is, but it is also an attempt to get people vaccinated and save lives. Presumably, you'd be happy to let people die to teach the Commission a lesson.

and the minority (emphasise) of EU members which suspended AZ vaccine use unnecessarily -

At this stage most of that gap has already been made up. Change the record.


[qupte]Yep, I was speaking to a guy who lives in Nerja, Spain earlier.

The Spanish, who've suffered a very high death rate in the pandemic, are still only half-way through vaccinating the over-80's at the moment, while at 66, he doesn't expect to get his jab until September!
[/quote

Spain will rev up the pace as supply increases. Everyone in Spain like every other part of the EU will be vaccinated in August, never mind September.
On an aside, some parts of Spain have a substantial proportion of the population with immunity, having had the virus when it was at its peak.

"Unionist logic" - There you have it. In the end, it really doesn't matter what I say, it's who I am which condemns me.

It's like earlier in the debate, someone (wrongly) assumed I was speaking from a Brexiteer position - thanks, whoever you were - as if the assumption, even if correct, automatically discredited my argument.

And then we finally reached the full card of "Bigot's Bingo!" with your disgraceful slur that I'm "happy to let people die" in order to prove a point.

There is no point in my debating with you any more, since you've already made up your mind, not about my argument, but about me.

And you've got both wrong.

[armaghniac]

"Unionist logic" - There you have it. In the end, it really doesn't matter what I say, it's who I am which condemns me.

It's like earlier in the debate, someone (wrongly) assumed I was speaking from a Brexiteer position - thanks, whoever you were - as if the assumption, even if correct, automatically discredited my argument.

And then we finally reached the full card of "Bigot's Bingo!" with your disgraceful slur that I'm "happy to let people die" in order to prove a point.

There is no point in my debating with you any more, since you've already made up your mind, not about my argument, but about me.

And you've got both wrong.

This entire debate is characterised by the contention that EU has to consider the interests of the UK but that the UK does not have to consider the interests of the EU. I am entitled to point out that this argument has the typical hypocrisy of unionists or Brexiteers, this does not imply that you are one but it does imply that you have a similar willingness to make points without accepting the same logic in reverse.

As for letting people die, it seems to me that the EU efforts to get more vaccine out of AZ are not just about saving face but are also concerned with people's health, if you do not accept this then you lack concern for that health.

[Evil Genius]

This entire debate is characterised by the contention that EU has to consider the interests of the UK but that the UK does not have to consider the interests of the EU. I am entitled to point out that this argument has the typical hypocrisy of unionists or Brexiteers, this does not imply that you are one but it does imply that you have a similar willingness to make points without accepting the same logic in reverse.

As for letting people die, it seems to me that the EU efforts to get more vaccine out of AZ are not just about saving face but are also concerned with people's health, if you do not accept this then you lack concern for that health.

Is it by any chance your "Nationalist mindset" [sic] which prevents you from getting this:

There is no point in my debating with you any more, since you've already made up your mind, not about my argument, but about me. And you've got both wrong.

[armaghniac]

Is it by any chance your "Nationalist mindset" [sic] which prevents you from getting this:

There is no point in my debating with you any more, since you've already made up your mind, not about my argument, but about me. And you've got both wrong.

You are the one that posted again after you said you wouldn't do so any more. I did not say that I had stopped posting and I needed to defend myself from your allegations .

[armaghniac]

Peace in our time between UK and EU
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56509521