Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Evil Genius]

... the inclusion of the cost in this is completely misleading, I expect the low price of these is why they haven't bothered to produce enough.
Better to have a vaccine that costs more but you can get it than a cheap one where the producer reneges on their orders.

Wtf!

In return for receiving huge UK funding to develop the vaccine, AZ agreed to distribute it at cost, not just to UK and EU, worldwide, for the duration of the pandemic. Indeed it was a condition of that funding that they do so.

Which is one reason why it is so cheap. Another reason is that being based on completely different science to Pfizer's vaccine, it is notably cheaper to manufacture, store and distribute  etc. For example, the Pfizer vaccine has to be stored at -75 degrees to achieve maximum efficacy, whereas AZ can be stored at 2 - 8 degrees Celsius i.e. in an ordinary fridge:
https://cnnphilippines.com/world/2020/11/24/AstraZeneca-vaccine-comes-with-advantage-of-easier-storage--WHO-chief-scientist-says.html

And there is still no proof whatever that AZ (an Anglo-Swedish* company btw) reneged on delivering orders to the EU, just a claim by an already severely discredited EU Commission which is under growing presuure from its own member states to account for its incompetence.


* - Or are you claiming that with Sweden a member of the EU, that a half-Swedish company would deliberately discriminate against its own and its fellow EU citizens? 

[Rossfan]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Btw, it gives me no pleasure to note that our neighbours are lagging behind, and not just because of the danger of cross-border transmission. For whether it's eg the UK's lamentable performance coping with the virus in 2020, or ROI's in administering the vaccine in 2021, both led/are leading to avoidable severe illness and the death of ordinary people.

Can only administer the doses we get 

[bennydorano]

It'll be interesting to see if the Vaccine wars accelerate this week, was reading that there is a big link in the chain of the Pfizer vaccine produced in the UK, a tit for tat action (or a threat of it, no matter how self defeating it could be) wouldn't be beneath the Tory Government if the EU ups the ante

[Evil Genius]

Apologies, dodgy Irish Times presentation of data.

Maybe, but you were willing to believe that the number was only 129, which suggested a rather odd predisposition.

And the inclusion of the cost in this is completely misleading, I expect the low price of these is why they haven't bothered to produce enough.
Better to have a vaccine that costs more but you can get it than a cheap one where the producer reneges on their orders.

Are you not the same boy who was lauding the EU for not paying over the odds for contracts while the UK gambled to get early (yet more expensive deals) - and now there's a clear correlation between early action and actual delivery of product, do you still think it's laudable?

"Laudable" vs "Laughable" 

[Evil Genius]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Can only administer the doses we get 

Except that ROI paused the administering of AZ doses not because of shortages, but because of "safety" fears.

Fears which ROI's own experts, neighbouring NI authorities, the MHRA in UK, the EMA and the WHO said were unfounded. Even the US Authorities have now passed the AZ vaccine as being safe - and you know how suspicious they are of everything that isn't from the good 'ol US of A!

And in any case, with (literally) millions of AZ doses being stockpiled unused on the Continent, why didn't the ROI authorities ask for them to be sent to Ireland, if only while administration was being paused in Europe?

[armaghniac]

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

The quarter of a million that AZ did not deliver would have helped

Are you not the same boy who was lauding the EU for not paying over the odds for contracts while the UK gambled to get early (yet more expensive deals) - and now there's a clear correlation between early action and actual delivery of product, do you still think it's laudable?

this early action thing is a bit of a myth. AZ did a deal with major EU countries last June and the EU took it over.

And there is still no proof whatever that AZ (an Anglo-Swedish* company btw) reneged on delivering orders to the EU, just a claim by an already severely discredited EU Commission which is under growing presuure from its own member states to account for its incompetence.

They did not fill the order, you can quibble as to the term renege, welsh non-performance etc is a matter of semantics.

[johnnycool]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Btw, it gives me no pleasure to note that our neighbours are lagging behind, and not just because of the danger of cross-border transmission. For whether it's eg the UK's lamentable performance coping with the virus in 2020, or ROI's in administering the vaccine in 2021, both led/are leading to avoidable severe illness and the death of ordinary people.

ROI vaccine rollout has without doubt been hit by problems but you got to remember that you're talking about the first dose and not full vaccinations.

UK GOV went for a 10-12 week gap between the doses not recommended by the vaccine manufacturers whereas the ROI have went for the three weeks from what I can make out.

UK Gov may have gambled and gotten it right.

[Rossfan]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Can only administer the doses we get 

Except that ROI paused the administering of AZ doses not because of shortages, but because of "safety" fears.

Fears which ROI's own experts, neighbouring NI authorities, the MHRA in UK, the EMA and the WHO said were unfounded. Even the US Authorities have now passed the AZ vaccine as being safe - and you know how suspicious they are of everything that isn't from the good 'ol US of A!

And in any case, with (literally) millions of AZ doses being stockpiled unused on the Continent, why didn't the ROI authorities ask for them to be sent to Ireland, if only while administration was being paused in Europe?

Because we were paused as well!

[Evil Genius]

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

The quarter of a million that AZ did not deliver would have helped

Er, the ROI declined to use them, remember? There could have been a refridgerated lorry load parked in Micheál Martin's front drive and they wouldn't have been allowed to be used!

And even before the pause, there were literally millions of AZ doses which had been delivered, but sitting unused in various EU countries. They'd never have missed a quarter of a million of them for ROI.

But I must say, as complaints about Da Brits go, this is a novel one: "We don't trust your vaccine and we're not using it. Oh and by the way, why aren't you sending us some more?"

And there is still no proof whatever that AZ (an Anglo-Swedish* company btw) reneged on delivering orders to the EU, just a claim by an already severely discredited EU Commission which is under growing presuure from its own member states to account for its incompetence.

They did not fill the order, you can quibble as to the term renege, welsh non-performance etc is a matter of semantics.

"Semantics" your hole.

The EU is saying that AZ should have delivered a set amount of vaccine, AZ is saying that they are required to act on a "best endeavours" basis - a standard contract term - meaning that when unexpected production problems meant they couldn't fulfil the EU order, they were protected.

That is, it's a matter of law, which a court will decide. (That's assuming the Commission continues to push it)

[Evil Genius]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Btw, it gives me no pleasure to note that our neighbours are lagging behind, and not just because of the danger of cross-border transmission. For whether it's eg the UK's lamentable performance coping with the virus in 2020, or ROI's in administering the vaccine in 2021, both led/are leading to avoidable severe illness and the death of ordinary people.

ROI vaccine rollout has without doubt been hit by problems but you got to remember that you're talking about the first dose and not full vaccinations.

UK GOV went for a 10-12 week gap between the doses not recommended by the vaccine manufacturers whereas the ROI have went for the three weeks from what I can make out.

UK Gov may have gambled and gotten it right.

Except that when gambling, they didn't place all their money on red.

NI, for example, has already administered nearly 50k second doses (to esp vulnerable and key workers etc), which equates to 7% of the total.

And in any case, people haven't been dying for want of a second jab, they've been dying for want of their first.

Meaning that every (non-priority) person given their second jab after 3 weeks is taking up a slot for someone else to get their first jab - the nurses can't do two at a time.

EDIT: I see that my "nearly 50k second doses" was somewhat short of the mark. Today's updated figure is 78,496:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56485473
This is more than half the number of second jabs administered in ROI (we don't have half the population), while overall, NI has administered more than ROI full stop.

[Evil Genius]

129,000 AZ as of last Friday
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/vaccinations

But sure don't ket the truth get in the way.

By your figures, ROI had administered 668,529 vaccine doses as of 19 March.

As of 18 March, NI had administered 713,392:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56463948

And as you will know, the population of ROI is nearly 2 1/2 x times that of NI.

"Ain't that the truth!"

Can only administer the doses we get 

Except that ROI paused the administering of AZ doses not because of shortages, but because of "safety" fears.

Fears which ROI's own experts, neighbouring NI authorities, the MHRA in UK, the EMA and the WHO said were unfounded. Even the US Authorities have now passed the AZ vaccine as being safe - and you know how suspicious they are of everything that isn't from the good 'ol US of A!

And in any case, with (literally) millions of AZ doses being stockpiled unused on the Continent, why didn't the ROI authorities ask for them to be sent to Ireland, if only while administration was being paused in Europe?

Because we were paused as well!

And whose fault was that?

AZ have been saying consistently throughout that their vaccine is safe (as has nearly everyone else).

Or are people now blaming AZ for the ROI's pause, too?

This is getting more Father Dougal by the day. 

[dublin7]

They paused giving out the vaccines until the independent medical experts said it was ok. It's Fr Dougal like that you don't understand that.

[Milltown Row2]

They paused giving out the vaccines until the independent medical experts said it was ok. It's Fr Dougal like that you don't understand that.

In Ireland what reports were they getting on this?

[Evil Genius]

They paused giving out the vaccines until the independent medical experts said it was ok. It's Fr Dougal like that you don't understand that.

Wrong.

The "independent medical experts" you cite were in a minority.

Meaning that the ROI government chose to pause the AZ vaccine, despite the great majority of expert advisers (EMA, WHO etc)  saying they shouldn't, and the majority of EU members continuing to use it.

Fair enough, they were entitled to do so - even if it is turning out to be the wrong decision - but they cannot bleat about not receiving the vaccine at the same time.

But you're right, it's probably not Father Dougal. Even he couldn't be that stupid...

[dublin7]

They paused giving out the vaccines until the independent medical experts said it was ok. It's Fr Dougal like that you don't understand that.

In Ireland what reports were they getting on this?

NPHET advised them to based on discussions they had with their European counterparts or equivalents. They then dealt with the EMA and re-started using the vaccine.

Once again the government were in a no in win position. You have people calling them idiots for pausing using the vaccine and if they hadn't they'd have people calling them idiots for not doing it. What can you do?