Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Milltown Row2]

The uk funded it for 100 million?

[armaghniac]

Re the AZ non-delivery, 'Trailer' (I think) has already addressed why that is so.

Trailer did nothing of the sort.

As for the idea that "it won't take long" to reduce the stockpile after a one week pause, the stockile is at least 8m doses.

Which is more than eg France and Italy have adminstered in total after more than two months!

I think you are making it up, as of yesterday Italy has deployed 7.53m doses.

And that's if you can get people to accept the AZ vaccine. All this fecking about from Merckel and Macron etc has only fuelled vaccine hesitancy, not dispelled it.

I'm certainly not defending Macron. But the fact that AZ are lying about their supplies and haven't been approved in the US does not help.

But no-one can defend the EU's record on vaccination in 2021 - a total clusterfuck from the very beginning.

They ordered Pfizer, the ordered AZ, they even ordered Moderna, which the UK did not. Their strategy is not so different from the UK, except AZ will not deliver.

[Evil Genius]

Re the AZ non-delivery, 'Trailer' (I think) has already addressed why that is so.

Trailer did nothing of the sort.

I said "I think" because someone fcuked up the reply order in an earlier post, so it wasn't clear.

Anyhow, someone posted:
"The EU signed the deal with AZ for Vaccines the day before the UK government did. However the UK have an agreement that they get priority as they fund a lot of this research. So they get first dibs on the Vaccine. They inserted this clause into their funding conditions. Good clever business.
The EU have been shown up to be a f**king shambles in regard to their vaccination programme and every time UVL opens her mouth I worry about what she'll say."

I concur with that.

As for the idea that "it won't take long" to reduce the stockpile after a one week pause, the stockile is at least 8m doses.

Which is more than eg France and Italy have adminstered in total after more than two months!

I think you are making it up, as of yesterday Italy has deployed 7.53m doses.

Sorry, I hadn't noticed that the chart I was looking at was dated 01 March.

Nonetheless my general point stands - countries can't complain about not receiving supplies when they can't administer the supplies they do have.

And that's if you can get people to accept the AZ vaccine. All this fecking about from Merckel and Macron etc has only fuelled vaccine hesitancy, not dispelled it.

I'm certainly not defending Macron. But the fact that AZ are lying about their supplies and haven't been approved in the US does not help.

The alleged "lying" about delivery has nothing to do with people's belief in it's efficacy/safety.

And as for the USA, are you saying that the AZ vaccine isn't safe? Because if you are, then you and other doubters are contradicting the WHO, the EMA, the MHRA and most of the equivalent bodies in the member states of the EU.

Fact is, the mixed-messages from UVDL, Macron, Merckel and certain other political leaders has done FAR more damage to the case for immunisation than the two peripheral causes you cite.

But no-one can defend the EU's record on vaccination in 2021 - a total clusterfuck from the very beginning.

They ordered Pfizer, the ordered AZ, they even ordered Moderna, which the UK did not. Their strategy is not so different from the UK, except AZ will not deliver.

It's not a question of "strategy" - although being slower to approve the various vaccines than the UK certainly didn't help.

Nor is the problem one of non-delivery by AZ, when as I repeat, they haven't managed to administer all the doses they have received, whether AZ or otherwise. (Nor have they proven that AZ "lied" or broke its contract, at least not yet)

Instead the problem is down to (a ) muddled decision-making in Brussels; (b ) incompetent vaccine administration in member states; (c ) mixed messages from European political leaders; and (d ) high levels of vaccine hesitancy on the continent, much of which derives directly from the first three.

[armaghniac]

Nor is the problem one of non-delivery by AZ, when as I repeat, they haven't managed to administer all the doses they have received, whether AZ or otherwise. (Nor have they proven that AZ "lied" or broke its contract, at least not yet)

The problem is one of non delivery by AZ, the rest are either less important or are related to this.
In particular, the politicians slagging AZ is definitely related to AZ reneging on its commitments. I'm not defending Macron, but the connection is there.

The breaking of the contract is a technical thing and slippery wording may save them. But on any moral level, AZ's behaviour has been a disgrace.

[Evil Genius]

The problem is one of non delivery by AZ, the rest are either less important or are related to this.

If they had long lines of people waiting to get vaccinated, and empty fridges, then you'd have a point.

But it's the other way round - full fridges and empty queues.

There was an example last month on TV, where they visited a brand new Vaccine centre which had just opened in the centre of Brussels. It had the capacity to treat 5,000 people per day, yet by closing time, only 200 had showed up.

And that's in the country which at that stage had the highest number of deaths per head of population in the whole of Europe.

But maybe you'd rather the EU stockpile was even bigger, at the expense of countries which are willing and able to adminster it?

In particular, the politicians slagging AZ is definitely related to AZ reneging on its commitments.
The breaking of the contract is a technical thing and slippery wording may save them.

You simply don't know that, since it has yet to be tested.

But if I had to guess what's behind this row, I'd plump for politicians desperately looking to point the finger of blame to others, to deflect from their own incompetence.

But on any moral level, AZ's behaviour has been a disgrace.

If you listen to UVDL, perhaps.

But a much greater disgrace is countries stockpiling, but not administering, vaccines which save lives.

[armaghniac]

EG, you are happy to allow a pharma company renege on its commitments and allow thousands die and that is it OK with you so long as you can take a shot at EU politicians. Those politicians are self serving, of course, but that in no way excuses the behaviour of AZ or Oxford University that developed a top class vaccine but refused to make it available in the EU in order to pander to Brexiteers.

[Rossfan]

I presume the "stockpiling" referred to is by individual Countries and not the EU.

[bennydorano]

Re the AZ non-delivery, 'Trailer' (I think) has already addressed why that is so.

Trailer did nothing of the sort.

As for the idea that "it won't take long" to reduce the stockpile after a one week pause, the stockile is at least 8m doses.

Which is more than eg France and Italy have adminstered in total after more than two months!

I think you are making it up, as of yesterday Italy has deployed 7.53m doses.

And that's if you can get people to accept the AZ vaccine. All this fecking about from Merckel and Macron etc has only fuelled vaccine hesitancy, not dispelled it.

I'm certainly not defending Macron. But the fact that AZ are lying about their supplies and haven't been approved in the US does not help.

But no-one can defend the EU's record on vaccination in 2021 - a total clusterfuck from the very beginning.

They ordered Pfizer, the ordered AZ, they even ordered Moderna, which the UK did not. Their strategy is not so different from the UK, except AZ will not deliver.

The UK has 17m Moderna on order among a lot of others  https://www.cityam.com/which-covid-vaccines-has-the-uk-government-ordered/

Every step of the way the EUs vaccine response has been pathetic, blaming AZ is a new and barely credible string to the bow. as I've said before on here some posters seem oblivious to vaccine public opinion across the world, they continue to defend ROI & EU approach blindly.

In regards to the EU attitude to AZ, as David Baddies tweeted - "The food here is terrible - and the portions are so small".

[Rossfan]

What is "vaccine public opinion across the world"?.
How is the ROI to give vaccines they haven't got?

[bennydorano]

What is "vaccine public opinion across the world"?.
How is the ROI to give vaccines they haven't got?

That the EU vaccine acquisition plan & roll out has been and continues to be a disaster; pretty much answers both parts of your response.

[armaghniac]

The UK has 17m Moderna on order among a lot of others  https://www.cityam.com/which-covid-vaccines-has-the-uk-government-ordered

However, they were late to order and did not order for Q1. According to people here, this entitles Moderna to now renege on their order as it suits them.

Every step of the way the EUs vaccine response has been pathetic, blaming AZ is a new and barely credible string to the bow. as I've said before on here some posters seem oblivious to vaccine public opinion across the world, they continue to defend ROI & EU approach blindly.

Why shouldn't we blame AZ, they took the order and haven't fulfilled it. That does not say that the EU were perfect, but whatever the EU did it does not change that AZ are a disgrace.
What on earth is vaccine public opinion across the world?

[Milltown Row2]

Sure the European countries won't take it now anyways... the damage is done, seems there's lots of Angelos in Europe

[Evil Genius]

EG, you are happy to allow a pharma company renege on its commitments...

It has not been proven that that AZ "reneged". The Commission has claimed that it has, AZ's defence is that it was only required to use its best endeavours (to fulfil the order).

... and allow thousands [to] die

It is the governments who cannot persuade their citizens to accept the vaccine, and/or those which already HAVE vaccine in stock, but are unable to get it out of the fridge and into arms, who are to blame for avoidable deaths.

As I say, if the EU's stocks had run out; and people were begging for them; and had AZ been proven to have broken their contract, then you'd have a case.

But the first two don't apply (quite the reverse, in fact) and the third has not yet been determined.

... that is it OK with you so long as you can take a shot at EU politicians.

So it's not my case you're concerned about, rather it's my motives. Or more accurately the motives which you assign to me.

Well not that it's any of your business, but I was a solid Remainer, who has no time for Johnson, Farage or any of the Brexit lot.

Those politicians are self serving, of course, but that in no way excuses the behaviour of AZ or Oxford University that developed a top class vaccine but refused to make it available in the EU in order to pander to Brexiteers.

Why would Oxford University, an institution more usually associated with progressive, liberal values etc, want to "pander to Brexiteers"?

And as for AZ, you are aware where the "Astra" bit comes from?
"Astra AB was a former international pharmaceutical company headquartered in Södertälje, Sweden. Astra was formed in 1913 and merged with the British Zeneca Group in 1999 to form AstraZeneca."

Sweden is part of the EU itself, in case you'd forgotten...

[Angelo]

Sure the European countries won't take it now anyways... the damage is done, seems there's lots of Angelos in Europe

Some of us have a free mind and question things and don't openly swallow whatever the Tories tell us to do.

Maybe someday you will evolve.

[Milltown Row2]

Sure the European countries won't take it now anyways... the damage is done, seems there's lots of Angelos in Europe

Some of us have a free mind and question things and don't openly swallow whatever the Tories tell us to do.

Maybe someday you will evolve.

Tories?