Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

Did you get any figures for that? I had a look but couldn't see any. In fact I just found the below

"In the first half of 2020, 102 suicide deaths were recorded in Northern Ireland and Nisra estimates that the overall suicide figure for this year will be somewhere between 200 and 220 - roughly in line with the provisional figures for 2019"

I can't see any data for an increase in the rate as a result of Covid.

Not sure they would be released yet. But you'd expect the surge in the latter half of the year when we have been on the end of 9 months of lockdowns, businesses closing, jobs lost, people out of touch with their routines and outlets and social isolation. What's a acceptable level of increase in suicides for you? These are the questions we need to ask ourselves when we put the needs of one group ahead of others.

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

[Angelo]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

[Franko]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

[Franko]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

If they're elderly then they are not heading for an early grave.

I would be more concerned about the wide reaching implications this has on vulnerable groupings whose support services have been taken away, children and people trapped in households where domestic violence and other forms of abuse are occurring who do not have the safe haven of schools and work anymore. I would have more concerns on the long ranging impact unemployment will have on the wellbeing and mental health of people, I would have more concern on the implications of those elderly people living alone who are now cocooned by themselves unable to have their social gatherings and routines such as mass, bingo and other community get togethers.

Quality of life is what is important. There are plenty of the elderly vulnerable groupings who would completely disagree with what you are contending here, they have lived their lives and don't want to spend what remaining time they have left hiding under their bed away from people. If I was 80 odd years of age. I'd take one more good years over 3 years of failing health and fear.

It's very, very cynical the words you use and the way you callously dismiss vulnerable groupings. You won't answer anything?

What's an acceptable increase in suicides for you this year? Because what you are supporting makes it inevitable.

[Angelo]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

[Franko]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

If they're elderly then they are not heading for an early grave.

I would be more concerned about the wide reaching implications this has on vulnerable groupings whose support services have been taken away, children and people trapped in households where domestic violence and other forms of abuse are occurring who do not have the safe haven of schools and work anymore. I would have more concerns on the long ranging impact unemployment will have on the wellbeing and mental health of people, I would have more concern on the implications of those elderly people living alone who are now cocooned by themselves unable to have their social gatherings and routines such as mass, bingo and other community get togethers.

Quality of life is what is important. There are plenty of the elderly vulnerable groupings who would completely disagree with what you are contending here, they have lived their lives and don't want to spend what remaining time they have left hiding under their bed away from people. If I was 80 odd years of age. I'd take one more good years over 3 years of failing health and fear.

It's very, very cynical the words you use and the way you callously dismiss vulnerable groupings. You won't answer anything?

What's an acceptable increase in suicides for you this year? Because what you are supporting makes it inevitable.

If they die earlier than they normally would have because they have contracted covid, then they have been sent to an early grave.

And you are clearly content with that.

[Franko]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

If they're elderly then they are not heading for an early grave.

I would be more concerned about the wide reaching implications this has on vulnerable groupings whose support services have been taken away, children and people trapped in households where domestic violence and other forms of abuse are occurring who do not have the safe haven of schools and work anymore. I would have more concerns on the long ranging impact unemployment will have on the wellbeing and mental health of people, I would have more concern on the implications of those elderly people living alone who are now cocooned by themselves unable to have their social gatherings and routines such as mass, bingo and other community get togethers.

Quality of life is what is important. There are plenty of the elderly vulnerable groupings who would completely disagree with what you are contending here, they have lived their lives and don't want to spend what remaining time they have left hiding under their bed away from people. If I was 80 odd years of age. I'd take one more good years over 3 years of failing health and fear.

It's very, very cynical the words you use and the way you callously dismiss vulnerable groupings. You won't answer anything?

What's an acceptable increase in suicides for you this year? Because what you are supporting makes it inevitable.

If they die earlier than they normally would have because they have contracted covid, then they have been sent to an early grave.

And you are clearly content with that.

The difference between me and you is that I try and look at things from a broad perspective. I don't focus on one demograph and go to hell with the rest. Would you like to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was neccessary she suffered such horrendous abuse so a 84 year old in a nursing home can get 4 extra months of being confined to a hospital bed living with dementia? You should answer that question because that's the reality of the strategy undertaken

[Angelo]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

[Franko]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

If they're elderly then they are not heading for an early grave.

I would be more concerned about the wide reaching implications this has on vulnerable groupings whose support services have been taken away, children and people trapped in households where domestic violence and other forms of abuse are occurring who do not have the safe haven of schools and work anymore. I would have more concerns on the long ranging impact unemployment will have on the wellbeing and mental health of people, I would have more concern on the implications of those elderly people living alone who are now cocooned by themselves unable to have their social gatherings and routines such as mass, bingo and other community get togethers.

Quality of life is what is important. There are plenty of the elderly vulnerable groupings who would completely disagree with what you are contending here, they have lived their lives and don't want to spend what remaining time they have left hiding under their bed away from people. If I was 80 odd years of age. I'd take one more good years over 3 years of failing health and fear.

It's very, very cynical the words you use and the way you callously dismiss vulnerable groupings. You won't answer anything?

What's an acceptable increase in suicides for you this year? Because what you are supporting makes it inevitable.

If they die earlier than they normally would have because they have contracted covid, then they have been sent to an early grave.

And you are clearly content with that.

The difference between me and you is that I try and look at things from a broad perspective. I don't focus on one demograph and go to hell with the rest. Would you like to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was neccessary she suffered such horrendous abuse so a 84 year old in a nursing home can get 4 extra months of being confined to a hospital bed living with dementia? You should answer that question because that's the reality of the strategy undertaken

That's not the reality.

That's a hypothetical anecdotal story you made up.  It's as far from reality as it's possible to be.

I'll have a go at this nonsense game

Would you like to tell a 40 year old man with mild asthma and 4 young children that he's going to have to die in a couple of weeks to prevent his neighbour having increased suicidal thoughts?

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

So you haven't.

So using Angelo logic you clearly have tunnel vision around these issues and therefore you obviously don't give a fcuk about sending thousands of elderly people to an early grave.

See how easy this sorta grifting is?

You're answering your question there.

I said that Lockdowns exasperate the problems of these people which would previously have been addressed to a much more acceptable level.

You seem to be saying f**k their needs?

So you don't give a fcuk about the thousands of elderly folks (and others) who are headed for an early grave.

It's easy to be Angelo

If they're elderly then they are not heading for an early grave.

I would be more concerned about the wide reaching implications this has on vulnerable groupings whose support services have been taken away, children and people trapped in households where domestic violence and other forms of abuse are occurring who do not have the safe haven of schools and work anymore. I would have more concerns on the long ranging impact unemployment will have on the wellbeing and mental health of people, I would have more concern on the implications of those elderly people living alone who are now cocooned by themselves unable to have their social gatherings and routines such as mass, bingo and other community get togethers.

Quality of life is what is important. There are plenty of the elderly vulnerable groupings who would completely disagree with what you are contending here, they have lived their lives and don't want to spend what remaining time they have left hiding under their bed away from people. If I was 80 odd years of age. I'd take one more good years over 3 years of failing health and fear.

It's very, very cynical the words you use and the way you callously dismiss vulnerable groupings. You won't answer anything?

What's an acceptable increase in suicides for you this year? Because what you are supporting makes it inevitable.

If they die earlier than they normally would have because they have contracted covid, then they have been sent to an early grave.

And you are clearly content with that.

The difference between me and you is that I try and look at things from a broad perspective. I don't focus on one demograph and go to hell with the rest. Would you like to tell a victim of domestic violence that it was neccessary she suffered such horrendous abuse so a 84 year old in a nursing home can get 4 extra months of being confined to a hospital bed living with dementia? You should answer that question because that's the reality of the strategy undertaken

That's not the reality.

That's a hypothetical anecdotal story you made up.  It's as far from reality as it's possible to be.

I'll have a go at this nonsense game

Would you like to tell a 40 year old man with mild asthma and 4 young children that he's going to have to die in a couple of weeks to prevent his neighbour having increased suicidal thoughts?

It is the reality.

How many 40 year old men have died?

We accept fit and healthy men in their 30s dying of flu every year without the need of society shutting down? Why do we accept that?

We accept young men and women  getting behind the wheel of a car and dying day in and day out? So why do we accept that?

[Franko]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

[Angelo]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu?

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that?

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you?

Up until the end of August we had 3 men who were aged in their 40s die from Covid.