Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

If you're referring to me I have said very clearly and distinctly. There were 50k excess deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season in the UK, whether they are down to flu is not quantifiable as we don't test for flu as we do for Covid. Were we too use the same criteria for recording Covid deaths and testing criteria you could almost guarantee that excess deaths associated with flu would be astronomical.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/urgent-care/flu-and-cold-weather-contributed-towards-50000-excess-winter-deaths-last-year/

[Milltown Row2]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

We get on with things with reasonable restrictions like we had in the summer.

You do know what caused the additional lock downs? It was because the reasonable restrictions weren't working and numbers were starting to increase. If we had managed to maintain the numbers over the summer then I don't think there would have been any need to use any additional lockdowns. But the reality was, the numbers weren't maintained, therefore lockdown was essential. It's just a pity the 2nd lockdown was half arsed.

Did you have any joy on the numbers with regards to suicides and domestic abuse?

Yes.

Lockdowns aren't sustainable and cause more damage that good. It's like a failed one trick pony here, we are in a vicious cycle of repeating the same failed strategy for the third time. The gov strategy seems to be cross its fingers and hope the vaccine works and/or doesn't kill us all. Modellers, doctors, scientists, politicians have been getting this whole thing wrong for a start.

What I can't understand is how none of you were voicing your concers when we had huge deaths in the winter flu season of 17/18. These are tangible figures. In the 2020 we haven't had one single month that came close to the number of deaths we had in Jan 2018. At the peak of the Covid 1st wave we had 1,933 deaths in April, in Jan 2018 we had 2,101 deaths and all we had on it were maybe a small column on page 5 of the daily newspapers.

We have absolutley lost the run of ourselves. You can die of anything as long as its not Covid and nobody gives a toss.

Angelo raises some fair points lads. The one in bold I tend to agree with.

It's ok to not like being restricted and locked down. I've had enough of it personally, compounded by the National Office of Statistics declaring death due to Covid on two occasions now when I know it was 100% not the cause of death (and a few more word of mouth, but obviously not exactly rock solid evidence). Just puts me right off "the cause".

Lockdown went from the last option, to the only option and nobody batted an eyelid. The politicians are offering no hope whatsoever. Robin Swann (Who quit the UUP leadership because it was too stressful...) and your Chief Medical Officer actually look happy enough to be in the limelight every Thursday during their press conference.

The repeated line is, "the vaccine is the way out". The vaccine is here, yet we are in the deepest lockdown yet and they are only predicting worse.

I don't know anyone that is in favour of lockdowns, no one I've ever spoken to has said, great I love these lockdowns, some craic...

The problem is we have a community of people that can't follow instructions, we've an inept government that can't govern, we've the shittish NHS service for the whole of the uk. The entitlement of the anti vaccine crowd would sicken your hole. The fact that a worldwide pandemic has created more division than unity is staggering..

This insignificant country can't come together and put a plan in that could be like NZ, after seeing how well they have coped with the problem tells you everything you need to know about this place.

Personally, lockdowns ruin my business, even for an essential business/service that I'm in. If there was another solution I'd jump at it, The only solution I'm getting from some here is, lock up the vulnerable and elderly and let everyone under the age of 60 carry on, as its not the demographic that is being affected..

Is that what Angelo wants?

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

It was attributed to a harsh winter temperatures, the beast from the east and an ineffective flu jab for the year. These were identified and with regards to the flu jab actions were taken to try and prevent this happening again. 2017-2018 was not a success, far from it and it will still be talked about in 10 years time when discussing a bad flu year. It was the worst in 40 odd years.

Yet we didn't bat an eyelid, a one day minor news stories at 50k excess deaths during a winter flu season. Done and dusted, move on a few days later, chalk it down to a "bad year".

But in Covid's case it's doomsday, mass hysteria and the destruction of society to cater for a 16% rise in excess deaths, primarily of people already with underlying health conditions, with very low life expectancy.

[dublin7]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

According to the UK's Annual Public Heath Report there were 26,408 deaths associated with flu in winter 2018. They do say there were serious issues with the flu vaccine that year and this was an issue

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/839350/Surveillance_of_influenza_and_other_respiratory_viruses_in_the_UK_2018_to_2019-FINAL.pdf

 

[Milltown Row2]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

If you're referring to me I have said very clearly and distinctly. There were 50k excess deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season in the UK, whether they are down to flu is not quantifiable as we don't test for flu as we do for Covid. Were we too use the same criteria for recording Covid deaths and testing criteria you could almost guarantee that excess deaths associated with flu would be astronomical.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/urgent-care/flu-and-cold-weather-contributed-towards-50000-excess-winter-deaths-last-year/

At this point, that's when the sentence should stop, as you don't know, you have said its not available, there could have been multiple reasons why there may have been spikes in deaths that winter...

I'd two clients that died over xmas, both with chest infections, both elderly, both not covid related.. Other deaths are happening

[Angelo]

The entitlement of the anti vaccine crowd would sicken your hole.

What an utterly insane comment.

- Anyone who wants the vaccine should go ahead and get it, it should be a matter of personal choice
- If I was in at an at risk grouping, I would most likely roll the dice and get it
- The virus is not a threat to my demographic
- There is absolutely no evidence that shows the vaccine will stop me getting the virus
- There is absolutely no evidence that shows the vaccine will stop me transmitting the virus
- The only potential upside for me is that the vaccine could potentially mean I suffer from a milder dose if I did contract the virus

And your talking about my sense of entitlement because I would rather exercise a personal choice in whether or not to take a rushed through vaccine from a shady industry with little upside in stopping the spread of the virus?

What an utter clown you must be.

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

According to the UK's Annual Public Heath Report there were 26,408 deaths associated with flu in winter 2018. They do say there were serious issues with the flu vaccine that year and this was an issue

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/839350/Surveillance_of_influenza_and_other_respiratory_viruses_in_the_UK_2018_to_2019-FINAL.pdf

We don't test for flu.

[tbrick18]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

I'm really struggling here to see the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that because "everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable" (which I don't believe at all) that we should find similar or higher death rates acceptable now?

No-one wants to be in lock down. But what is the realistic alternative? Let things go on as they were? Allow hospitals to be overrun with patients to the point where new patients cannot be admitted or staff collapse on their feet? With an R rate of 1.8, the number of cases will grow very quickly and likewise the small percentage requiring hospital treatment will grow (did I see 1% somewhere?). 1% of our populate is over 18K hospital admissions which would not normally happen over the lifecycle of this covid pandemic.

In my opinion, we need the short term emergency lockdown to protect the health system from collapsing whilst the medium/long term answer is the Vaccine (provided it is used in the way it has been designed to be used). And whilst lock down will adversely affect the economy and mental health of some, surely a big picture approach has to be taken where the highest risk conditions (currently Covid) are prioritised?

The single biggest failing is that there is too much dithering in deciding to impose the restrictions

If you have a better idea Angelo, I'd love to hear it.

[trueblue1234]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

It was attributed to a harsh winter temperatures, the beast from the east and an ineffective flu jab for the year. These were identified and with regards to the flu jab actions were taken to try and prevent this happening again. 2017-2018 was not a success, far from it and it will still be talked about in 10 years time when discussing a bad flu year. It was the worst in 40 odd years.

Yet we didn't bat an eyelid, a one day minor news stories at 50k excess deaths during a winter flu season. Done and dusted, move on a few days later, chalk it down to a "bad year".

But in Covid's case it's doomsday, mass hysteria and the destruction of society to cater for a 16% rise in excess deaths, primarily of people already with underlying health conditions, with very low life expectancy.

It was one bad year. That's the thing with Flu, we know where we are with it. We know the average death toll we know 2017-2018 was the highest in 40 odd years. And the "no one batted an eyelid" rubbish is wearing thin. Most people I know could tell you 2017-2018 was a bad flu year. Have a quick google and you'll see thousands of references to it. But it was an outlier. This is the first year with Covid and it has already surpassed the worst year for flu/ excess deaths in 40 years. And that was while the world changed to try and deal with it. 

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

If you're referring to me I have said very clearly and distinctly. There were 50k excess deaths during the 17/18 winter flu season in the UK, whether they are down to flu is not quantifiable as we don't test for flu as we do for Covid. Were we too use the same criteria for recording Covid deaths and testing criteria you could almost guarantee that excess deaths associated with flu would be astronomical.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/urgent-care/flu-and-cold-weather-contributed-towards-50000-excess-winter-deaths-last-year/

At this point, that's when the sentence should stop, as you don't know, you have said its not available, there could have been multiple reasons why there may have been spikes in deaths that winter...

I'd two clients that died over xmas, both with chest infections, both elderly, both not covid related.. Other deaths are happening

Absolutely but there is also a trend year on year with excess deaths during the winter flu season.

Conversely you must apply the same criteria to Covid deaths then and the arbitrary way in which they are assigned.

But then again we know people like you like to reverse the logic they apply when the narrative reads a littler differently in other situations.

Excess deaths in April - must be Covid.

Excess deaths in January - must not be flu.

[Milltown Row2]

The entitlement of the anti vaccine crowd would sicken your hole.

What an utterly insane comment.

- Anyone who wants the vaccine should go ahead and get it, it should be a matter of personal choice
- If I was in at an at risk grouping, I would most likely roll the dice and get it
- The virus is not a threat to my demographic
- There is absolutely no evidence that shows the vaccine will stop me getting the virus
- There is absolutely no evidence that shows the vaccine will stop me transmitting the virus
- The only potential upside for me is that the vaccine could potentially mean I suffer from a milder dose if I did contract the virus

And your talking about my sense of entitlement because I would rather exercise a personal choice in whether or not to take a rushed through vaccine from a shady industry with little upside in stopping the spread of the virus?

What an utter clown you must be.

Don't take it personally, its a general statement.. If I've something to point out to you I'll quote you. Is that easy enough for you to understand? Shit Ive asked you question, sorry.

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

I'm really struggling here to see the point you're trying to make. Are you saying that because "everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable" (which I don't believe at all) that we should find similar or higher death rates acceptable now?

No-one wants to be in lock down. But what is the realistic alternative? Let things go on as they were? Allow hospitals to be overrun with patients to the point where new patients cannot be admitted or staff collapse on their feet? With an R rate of 1.8, the number of cases will grow very quickly and likewise the small percentage requiring hospital treatment will grow (did I see 1% somewhere?). 1% of our populate is over 18K hospital admissions which would not normally happen over the lifecycle of this covid pandemic.

In my opinion, we need the short term emergency lockdown to protect the health system from collapsing whilst the medium/long term answer is the Vaccine (provided it is used in the way it has been designed to be used). And whilst lock down will adversely affect the economy and mental health of some, surely a big picture approach has to be taken where the highest risk conditions (currently Covid) are prioritised?

The single biggest failing is that there is too much dithering in deciding to impose the restrictions

If you have a better idea Angelo, I'd love to hear it.

I'm talking about facts here.

If you didn't find it acceptable in Jan 18, shows a few posts where you wanted something done about it?

It's the complete and utter contradictions of people like you who will put out a rationale on one hand and then go against it when you are shown something else.

Why don't we lockdown every winter to save deaths when we know flus are a huge problem? Can you answer me that? Should we have been locking down in Nov/Dec 17?

[Milltown Row2]

Now a spike of 25k deaths to normal winters one year in 40, you are now saying its happening every year? or was it just the winter of 17/18?

[Angelo]

I don't know anyone that is in favour of lockdowns, no one I've ever spoken to has said, great I love these lockdowns, some craic...

The problem is we have a community of people that can't follow instructions, we've an inept government that can't govern, we've the shittish NHS service for the whole of the uk. The entitlement of the anti vaccine crowd would sicken your hole. The fact that a worldwide pandemic has created more division than unity is staggering..

This insignificant country can't come together and put a plan in that could be like NZ, after seeing how well they have coped with the problem tells you everything you need to know about this place.

Personally, lockdowns ruin my business, even for an essential business/service that I'm in. If there was another solution I'd jump at it, The only solution I'm getting from some here is, lock up the vulnerable and elderly and let everyone under the age of 60 carry on, as its not the demographic that is being affected..

Is that what Angelo wants?

The whole of Europe cannot follow instructions seemingly. If you don't know anyone in favour of lockdowns then you are more stupid than I initially thought, there are plenty of posters here demanding lockdowns and ignoring all the huge societal consequences that come with them. People simply will not open their eyes to the bigger picture, it's covid, covid, covid, covid, covid. It's the only show in town for them.

[Angelo]

Now a spike of 25k deaths to normal winters one year in 40, you are now saying its happening every year? or was it just the winter of 17/18?

Every year it happens.

But 50k excess death was a staggering amount and people batted their eyes.

I wonder what would happen if they had rebadged the winter flu that year and gave it a new name, said it was a novel virus, mass tested the population and released daily case and death figures.

Most deaths in a single month 2006-2020 inclusive?

January 2018.