Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Angelo]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

We get on with things with reasonable restrictions like we had in the summer.

You do know what caused the additional lock downs? It was because the reasonable restrictions weren't working and numbers were starting to increase. If we had managed to maintain the numbers over the summer then I don't think there would have been any need to use any additional lockdowns. But the reality was, the numbers weren't maintained, therefore lockdown was essential. It's just a pity the 2nd lockdown was half arsed.

Did you have any joy on the numbers with regards to suicides and domestic abuse?

Yes.

Lockdowns aren't sustainable and cause more damage that good. It's like a failed one trick pony here, we are in a vicious cycle of repeating the same failed strategy for the third time. The gov strategy seems to be cross its fingers and hope the vaccine works and/or doesn't kill us all. Modellers, doctors, scientists, politicians have been getting this whole thing wrong for a start.

What I can't understand is how none of you were voicing your concers when we had huge deaths in the winter flu season of 17/18. These are tangible figures. In the 2020 we haven't had one single month that came close to the number of deaths we had in Jan 2018. At the peak of the Covid 1st wave we had 1,933 deaths in April, in Jan 2018 we had 2,101 deaths and all we had on it were maybe a small column on page 5 of the daily newspapers.

We have absolutley lost the run of ourselves. You can die of anything as long as its not Covid and nobody gives a toss.

[dublin7]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

That's it in a nutshell.

It's a shit sandwich, but there don't seem to be any other approaches.

At least any that stand up even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The know-alls and bluffers amongst us would tell you different, but, as illustrated clearly on this thread, they are left flapping when asked for a credible alternative.

All the countries that have managed to get this under control have used societal lockdowns to do so.

Even the buccaneering Swedish were forced to fall in line eventually when things got out of hand.

All those anti covid loons claiming Sweden's approach was the example for everyone else to follow have gone very quiet now. Their population density is quite low compared to the rest of Europe so they have a natural advantage alot of countries don't and despite this their death by covid figures are way higher than any of their scandanvian colleagues and thier health system is o the verge of collapse.

[Angelo]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

That's it in a nutshell.

It's a shit sandwich, but there don't seem to be any other approaches.

At least any that stand up even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The know-alls and bluffers amongst us would tell you different, but, as illustrated clearly on this thread, they are left flapping when asked for a credible alternative.

All the countries that have managed to get this under control have used societal lockdowns to do so.

Even the buccaneering Swedish were forced to fall in line eventually when things got out of hand.

There certainly doesn't seem to be any other approaches when they keep on using the same one that has failed.

How has Sweden's approached faired out any worse than their European counterparts?

[Angelo]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

That's it in a nutshell.

It's a shit sandwich, but there don't seem to be any other approaches.

At least any that stand up even the slightest bit of scrutiny.

The know-alls and bluffers amongst us would tell you different, but, as illustrated clearly on this thread, they are left flapping when asked for a credible alternative.

All the countries that have managed to get this under control have used societal lockdowns to do so.

Even the buccaneering Swedish were forced to fall in line eventually when things got out of hand.

All those anti covid loons claiming Sweden's approach was the example for everyone else to follow have gone very quiet now.

Why have they gone quiet?

How are Sweden any worse?

Sweden lie 14th in Europe in terms of cases per population, 18th in deaths per population.

How have countries like Spain (12th), the UK (10th) and Italy (5th) who did impose severe lockdowns got on?

Logic really defies the rantings of you guys.

[dublin7]

Angelo/Seany ins't the only person to use the figure of 50,000 excess flu deaths against the Covid 19 cases. Hotel owner Sir Rocco Forte has also made this claim. To be fair to Sir Rocco however he doesn't go as far as to suggest the virus should be allowed "run its course" (whatever that means)


https://www.bbc.com/news/54735702

[Milltown Row2]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

[Angelo]

Angelo/Seany ins't the only person to use thew figure of 50,000 excess flu deaths against the Covid 19 cases. Hotel owner Sir Rocco Forte has also made this claim. To be fair to Sir Rocco however he doesn't go as far as to suggest the virus should be allowed "run its course" (whatever that means)


https://www.bbc.com/news/54735702

Nobody said they were flu deaths. They were excess deaths during flu that seemingly everyone thought were fine, dandy and acceptable at the time.

[trueblue1234]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

We get on with things with reasonable restrictions like we had in the summer.

You do know what caused the additional lock downs? It was because the reasonable restrictions weren't working and numbers were starting to increase. If we had managed to maintain the numbers over the summer then I don't think there would have been any need to use any additional lockdowns. But the reality was, the numbers weren't maintained, therefore lockdown was essential. It's just a pity the 2nd lockdown was half arsed.

Did you have any joy on the numbers with regards to suicides and domestic abuse?

Yes.

Lockdowns aren't sustainable and cause more damage that good. It's like a failed one trick pony here, we are in a vicious cycle of repeating the same failed strategy for the third time. The gov strategy seems to be cross its fingers and hope the vaccine works and/or doesn't kill us all. Modellers, doctors, scientists, politicians have been getting this whole thing wrong for a start.

What I can't understand is how none of you were voicing your concers when we had huge deaths in the winter flu season of 17/18. These are tangible figures. In the 2020 we haven't had one single month that came close to the number of deaths we had in Jan 2018. At the peak of the Covid 1st wave we had 1,933 deaths in April, in Jan 2018 we had 2,101 deaths and all we had on it were maybe a small column on page 5 of the daily newspapers.

We have absolutley lost the run of ourselves. You can die of anything as long as its not Covid and nobody gives a toss.

We haven't had a January in Covid yet. Jan death rates are higher in general than April. Lets compare this again at the end of January 2021. Plus I might add that we had a lockdown in March 2020. This thankfully will have reduced the number of deaths that would have occurred in April 2020 if no restrictions had been put in place as like Jan 2018.

Can I ask why would people not care if you don't die of Covid? Just explain that logic to me?

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

[dublin7]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

[Angelo]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

We get on with things with reasonable restrictions like we had in the summer.

You do know what caused the additional lock downs? It was because the reasonable restrictions weren't working and numbers were starting to increase. If we had managed to maintain the numbers over the summer then I don't think there would have been any need to use any additional lockdowns. But the reality was, the numbers weren't maintained, therefore lockdown was essential. It's just a pity the 2nd lockdown was half arsed.

Did you have any joy on the numbers with regards to suicides and domestic abuse?

Yes.

Lockdowns aren't sustainable and cause more damage that good. It's like a failed one trick pony here, we are in a vicious cycle of repeating the same failed strategy for the third time. The gov strategy seems to be cross its fingers and hope the vaccine works and/or doesn't kill us all. Modellers, doctors, scientists, politicians have been getting this whole thing wrong for a start.

What I can't understand is how none of you were voicing your concers when we had huge deaths in the winter flu season of 17/18. These are tangible figures. In the 2020 we haven't had one single month that came close to the number of deaths we had in Jan 2018. At the peak of the Covid 1st wave we had 1,933 deaths in April, in Jan 2018 we had 2,101 deaths and all we had on it were maybe a small column on page 5 of the daily newspapers.

We have absolutley lost the run of ourselves. You can die of anything as long as its not Covid and nobody gives a toss.

We haven't had a January in Covid yet. Jan death rates are higher in general than April. Lets compare this again at the end of January 2021. Plus I might add that we had a lockdown in March 2020. This thankfully will have reduced the number of deaths that would have occurred in April 2020 if no restrictions had been put in place as like Jan 2018.

Can I ask why would people not care if you don't die of Covid? Just explain that logic to me?

April was an outlier, we've had 10x the number of cases in the Oct/Nov that we had in March/April but death rates were nowhere near the same level. I'd expect death rates to be in and around with a small variance of common death rates for Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar.

[Angelo]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

Imagine if we plugged all excess deaths down to one cause?

Oh wait.

[GetOverTheBar]

Death toll of who though?

People with underlying health conditions over the age of 80? How do we counter that with rises in suicide and long term impacts of unemployment, domestic violence, mental health, children's education and development? We seem to have a sole focus on Covid but are not looking at the negative impact that the current strategy. You can't have a debate on it without some hysterical people trying to say you want people to die (not you btw).

Should we not be taking a different approach to protecting the elderly and vulnerable and easing up on some of the more excessive restrictions?

What other approach is an option? There's a vaccine being rolled out. That will take the majority of the vulnerable out of the firing line for Covid. Once that's done things can reopen and relax restrictions more. We are buying time. What were the numbers of suicide increases during Covid? I haven't seen anything that quantifies how big an issue this is to be fair? Do you have any data on that? Same for abuse? It's hard to assess unless we've an idea of the impact these are causing?

We get on with things with reasonable restrictions like we had in the summer.

You do know what caused the additional lock downs? It was because the reasonable restrictions weren't working and numbers were starting to increase. If we had managed to maintain the numbers over the summer then I don't think there would have been any need to use any additional lockdowns. But the reality was, the numbers weren't maintained, therefore lockdown was essential. It's just a pity the 2nd lockdown was half arsed.

Did you have any joy on the numbers with regards to suicides and domestic abuse?

Yes.

Lockdowns aren't sustainable and cause more damage that good. It's like a failed one trick pony here, we are in a vicious cycle of repeating the same failed strategy for the third time. The gov strategy seems to be cross its fingers and hope the vaccine works and/or doesn't kill us all. Modellers, doctors, scientists, politicians have been getting this whole thing wrong for a start.

What I can't understand is how none of you were voicing your concers when we had huge deaths in the winter flu season of 17/18. These are tangible figures. In the 2020 we haven't had one single month that came close to the number of deaths we had in Jan 2018. At the peak of the Covid 1st wave we had 1,933 deaths in April, in Jan 2018 we had 2,101 deaths and all we had on it were maybe a small column on page 5 of the daily newspapers.

We have absolutley lost the run of ourselves. You can die of anything as long as its not Covid and nobody gives a toss.

Angelo raises some fair points lads. The one in bold I tend to agree with.

It's ok to not like being restricted and locked down. I've had enough of it personally, compounded by the National Office of Statistics declaring death due to Covid on two occasions now when I know it was 100% not the cause of death (and a few more word of mouth, but obviously not exactly rock solid evidence). Just puts me right off "the cause".

Lockdown went from the last option, to the only option and nobody batted an eyelid. The politicians are offering no hope whatsoever. Robin Swann (Who quit the UUP leadership because it was too stressful...) and your Chief Medical Officer actually look happy enough to be in the limelight every Thursday during their press conference.

The repeated line is, "the vaccine is the way out". The vaccine is here, yet we are in the deepest lockdown yet and they are only predicting worse.

[Milltown Row2]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

25k is the expected death each winter from all illnesses (not just flu). The 50k being quoted for 2017/18 is the total deaths from all illnesses, not just flu/pneumonia.

No, don't believe you, I've seen quotes that 50k people died of the flu, only, during the winter of 17/18, check your figures again please... as these figures are so relevant to this all year round, not flu, covid virus we have going on at the minute

[trueblue1234]

Can anyone tell me how many people died of the flu, in the winter of 17/18? I've been trying to find these figures for a while now, no luck..

In the UK there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season. What this is attributable to is not confirmed. All we know is that everyone found that type of excess death rate perfectly acceptable and every winter we find excess death rates perfectly acceptable.

Except this winter that is.

It was attributed to a harsh winter temperatures, the beast from the east and an ineffective flu jab for the year. These were identified and with regards to the flu jab actions were taken to try and prevent this happening again. 2017-2018 was not a success, far from it and it will still be talked about in 10 years time when discussing a bad flu year. It was the worst in 40 odd years.