Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[trueblue1234]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

You've posted 3 links that bear absolutely no correlation to what you just said.

You'd be better off admitting you're talking out of your arse here.

Someone who is terminally ill with cancer etc and had Covid is registered as a Covid death, regardless of whether Covid was the cause of death. Do you continue to dispute that?

It's there for all to see. People can see who's talking out of their arse. You've been handed your arse because each claim you make is BS. As I've already pointed out to you. 91% of the deaths were due to covid. So the 8% is what you are talking about above. I'm happy for you to remove 8% of the deaths.

Alsdo what you are failing to mention in your posts is that there were no lock downs in any of the other years. So 2020 still had 80K excess deaths and that was with restrictions in place that weren't in place every other year including 2017-2018. So it's not comparing like for like. If there were no lock downs we would have been looking at a much higher excess deatj rate. 

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

[sid waddell]

Alsdo what you are failing to mention in your posts is that there were no lock downs in any of the other years. So 2020 still had 80K excess deaths and that was with restrictions in place that weren't in place every other year including 2017-2018. So it's not comparing like for like. If there were no lock downs we would have been looking at a much higher excess deatj rate.

This is the point, all day every day

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

So this is the one where we live with the virus until it has "run its course"?

I've asked you now three times to explain how a virus like this runs its course.

You haven't done it yet.

[trueblue1234]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

You've posted 3 links that bear absolutely no correlation to what you just said.

You'd be better off admitting you're talking out of your arse here.

Someone who is terminally ill with cancer etc and had Covid is registered as a Covid death, regardless of whether Covid was the cause of death. Do you continue to dispute that?

Sorry just to be fair, what claim was utterly bogus? I thought you were chatting about the 1 in 5 with underlaying health conditions. But I see that was on another post.

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

And the strategy hasn't failed before.

It did exactly what it was supposed to do, on both occasions.

It reduced the spread of the virus and prevented health services becoming overwhelmed.

But I'll agree that on both previous occasions, the government has totally fcuked up the end game.

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

So this is the one where we live with the virus until it has "run its course"?

I've asked you now three times to explain how a virus like this runs its course.

You haven't done it yet.

And yet your answer is to repeat a failed strategy for the third time. Yet you want me to readress something I have already done there and don't want to have to discuss how doing the failed thing for the third time is going to bring up any different results.

How many more failed lockdowns do you want to bring? How many more suicides, job losses, domestic violence incidents do you want to take place before trying something else?

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

You've posted 3 links that bear absolutely no correlation to what you just said.

You'd be better off admitting you're talking out of your arse here.

Someone who is terminally ill with cancer etc and had Covid is registered as a Covid death, regardless of whether Covid was the cause of death. Do you continue to dispute that?

Sorry just to be fair, what claim was utterly bogus? I thought you were chatting about the 1 in 5 with underlaying health conditions. But I see that was on another post.

100% of excess deaths were due to Covid as you claimed.

That is utterly, utterly bogus.

[trueblue1234]

I said nearly. There's 80k excess deaths, 75k COVID deaths. I'll let you do the maths.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

 

And yet your answer is to repeat a failed strategy for the third time. Yet you want me to readress something I have already done there and don't want to have to discuss how doing the failed thing for the third time is going to bring up any different results.

How many more failed lockdowns do you want to bring? How many more suicides, job losses, domestic violence incidents do you want to take place before trying something else?

has your strategy not failed? we tried to live with covid, it didnt work it led back to lockdowns again

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

So this is the one where we live with the virus until it has "run its course"?

I've asked you now three times to explain how a virus like this runs its course.

You haven't done it yet.

And yet your answer is to repeat a failed strategy for the third time. Yet you want me to readress something I have already done there and don't want to have to discuss how doing the failed thing for the third time is going to bring up any different results.

How many more failed lockdowns do you want to bring? How many more suicides, job losses, domestic violence incidents do you want to take place before trying something else?

You have neither answered nor even addressed this question.

How does a virus like this "run its course"?

And again - the lockdowns didn't fail.  The bit that was supposed to come after it did.

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

You've posted 3 links that bear absolutely no correlation to what you just said.

You'd be better off admitting you're talking out of your arse here.

Someone who is terminally ill with cancer etc and had Covid is registered as a Covid death, regardless of whether Covid was the cause of death. Do you continue to dispute that?

Sorry just to be fair, what claim was utterly bogus? I thought you were chatting about the 1 in 5 with underlaying health conditions. But I see that was on another post.

100% of excess deaths were due to Covid as you claimed.

That is utterly, utterly bogus.

He didn't claim that.

[lenny]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

So no plan at all then?

Anything?

Yes. Are you looking for me to post it for the fourth time today?

And your plan is to repeat a strategy that has failed twice before?

So this is the one where we live with the virus until it has "run its course"?

I've asked you now three times to explain how a virus like this runs its course.

You haven't done it yet.

And yet your answer is to repeat a failed strategy for the third time. Yet you want me to readress something I have already done there and don't want to have to discuss how doing the failed thing for the third time is going to bring up any different results.

How many more failed lockdowns do you want to bring? How many more suicides, job losses, domestic violence incidents do you want to take place before trying something else?

You have neither answered nor even addressed this question.

How does a virus like this "run its course"?

And again - the lockdowns didn't fail.  The bit that was supposed to come after it did.

The goal for lockdowns here to reduce the R number means that they worked. The problem is that they aren't strict enough and they should have a goal of zero covid. We are an island and could achieve what new zealand have if we imposed a very strict lockdown for 2 or 3 months including strict quarantine for anyone flying into the island.

[trailer]

Get the Vaccine. If you want to be a great person and do something for your country and your fellow country people you get the vaccine. It's really that simple.