Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Angelo]

Of Covid reported deaths in NI over 91 % were as a direct result of covid. (It's actually up to 95% now I believe)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deaths-caused-by-covid-19-in-northern-ireland-reach-755-39539154.html

But I'm not sure what your point is? There's 80,000 excess deaths in 2020 in the UK.  The majority of these due to covid (75K). (If you want to take 91% of that figure then that's still a hell of a lot) in comparison to 25K odd for flu and flu like deaths in 2018. And that's with the lock downs that weren't in place in 2018. So I'm sure you can imagine the carnage if there wasn't a lock downs.

I'm really lost on what your point is here?

It's when you look at the data, the most worrying findings turn up.

For a start we don't test for flu. But on a historic analysis, there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of Dec 17 - Mar 18. A four month period. That's a fact. And we didn't bat an eyelid back then when it happened.

If you want to look at the death statistics from NISRA. 1 March - 31 August.

Covid related deaths 875
Aged over 65: 93%
Aged over 70: 88%
Aged over 75: 79%
Aged over 80: 66%

Back in April, the NHS published information that 95% of patients who died from Covid had underlying health conditions.

We know that if a person who dies from Covid tested positive for Covid within a certain period of time, they are going to be classified as a Covid, irrespective of whether it killed them or not.

Now could you imagine if we classifed flu deaths in a similar way?

[Angelo]

What will be or particular interest to me is when NISRA publish their excess mortality figures for Dec 2020 - Marc 2021 on how it stacks up to the winter flu season of 17/18 which we didn't bat an eyelid at.

[Taylor]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

[Taylor]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did he accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You do know the excess deaths with Covid have still occurred even with lockdowns and social distancing measures?

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

[trueblue1234]

Of Covid reported deaths in NI over 91 % were as a direct result of covid. (It's actually up to 95% now I believe)

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/deaths-caused-by-covid-19-in-northern-ireland-reach-755-39539154.html

But I'm not sure what your point is? There's 80,000 excess deaths in 2020 in the UK.  The majority of these due to covid (75K). (If you want to take 91% of that figure then that's still a hell of a lot) in comparison to 25K odd for flu and flu like deaths in 2018. And that's with the lock downs that weren't in place in 2018. So I'm sure you can imagine the carnage if there wasn't a lock downs.

I'm really lost on what your point is here?

It's when you look at the data, the most worrying findings turn up.

For a start we don't test for flu. But on a historic analysis, there were 50k excess deaths during the winter flu season of Dec 17 - Mar 18. A four month period. That's a fact. And we didn't bat an eyelid back then when it happened.

If you want to look at the death statistics from NISRA. 1 March - 31 August.

Covid related deaths 875
Aged over 65: 93%
Aged over 70: 88%
Aged over 75: 79%
Aged over 80: 66%

Back in April, the NHS published information that 95% of patients who died from Covid had underlying health conditions.

We know that if a person who dies from Covid tested positive for Covid within a certain period of time, they are going to be classified as a Covid, irrespective of whether it killed them or not.

Now could you imagine if we classifed flu deaths in a similar way?

But I've just explained 91% of deaths recorded as Covid, the people die because of covid, not any other issues.
We don't test for the flu but we have a vaccine program in play. And Flu is classified as ILI deaths - Influenza-like illness. So I'm not sure ehat the difference is?
Also the bit about 95% of people who die from covid have underlying heath problems. About 1 in 5 people have underlying heath problems. 1 in 5. That's a huge amount of people who could potentially be at risk from covid.

[trueblue1234]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

[Angelo]

If you look at the 26 as an example.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/over-93-of-people-who-died-with-covid-19-had-underlying-condition-cso-1.4402354

93% of people who are classified as a Covid death had underlying health conditions. Are we meant to believe that all these people died from Covid rather than whatever it was their underlying health condition was?

We know up north (Mar-Aug) 93% of those classified as Covid deaths are over 65, 66% of the those who are over 80% classified as Covid deaths.

Have people stopped dying from cancer, heart disease, respiratory failure, old age? Why is it Covid being assigned as the cause of death to people who are terminally ill and have very low life expectancies as it is?

[Franko]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

[trueblue1234]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

You have said this multiple times.

Any chance of a response to the couple of questions I asked earlier?

You are purporting to be the guy who never shirks them, after all.

I haven't said that.

That's just a lie as it is impossible to say. I did pull you out on definitively saying the opposite when there's no way of telling.

On the first lockdown?

I believe it was the right thing to do in terms of a novel virus we were ill prepared to deal with. The fatality rate is nearly 10x less now that the first wave but governments have still failed to address inadequacies in their health systems and have used lokdowns to shirk responsibility for their poor response.

This is the third time they are repeating a failed strategy. When they release statistics on suicides, domestic violence incidents, addiction relapses etc for 2020 it's going to make interesting reading.

It's only impossible to say if one of the following is true;

1. You wilfully ignore all the data produced over the past year saying that it is much worse
2. You can't understand this data

Agreed, on the gov't failures - but you are into Doc Brown/Delorean territory here, which is as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the minute.

So again, what's your plan?

And if involves letting the virus "run its course", please explain how a virus like this "runs its course".

The data isn't comparable. March/Apr was an outlier as it was a novel virus we were ill prepared for but as the graph Armaghniac put up earlier we are seeing excess death rates not too disimilar to a bad winter flu season in 17/18 and while you may point to restrictions being in place, every winter we have an operational in place so that should be considered.

This is a novel virus as such so there's no way of saying it one way or another. It is not provable so you are stating something quite ridiculous in reality.

You ask about my plan? The difference between me and you is I take an outlook on society as a whole, the pros and cons to all groupings in society and particularly the most vulnerable. You take a view on Covid and screw anyone else who are not directly at risk from Covid but who are at risk from some of the draconian restrictions brought it through lockdowns. You are saying screw them and let's repeat a failed strategy for the third time.

[Angelo]

Angelo - are you saying this isnt serious and is similar to the flu?

You said earlier the 1st lockdown was the right thing to do - we dont lock down for the flu.

Im confused as to what point you are trying to make as you are comparing it to the flu

I didn't say that.

But what I did say how it is unusual how we don't bat an eyelid when we have 50k excess deaths due to a winter flu season and such hysteria and panic exists over Covid?

Why did we accept the winter flu season of 17/18 so meekly and without any recriminations?

And around we go again. There was 50K excess deaths. They weren't due to Flu. ILI only clocked up less than half that. Nearly 100% of the excess deaths in 2020 were due to Covid (75K out of 80K odd). Your muddying the waters, intentionally I might add.

Aye, round the f**king bend again.

I f**king know well they weren't attributed to flu. I've said it multiple times, maybe read my posts the next time, I have never stated anything to the contrary so here you are again with another strawman argument.

For the sake of facts, we don't test for flu do we, not on a mass scale? What we do know for fact and something you seem to keep ignoring was there were 50k excess deaths when a very virulent strain of flu hit the UK - if we had mass testing and used the same criteria as we do for Covid, how many flu deaths do you think we would have recorded? What we also know for a fact is we do mass testing for Covid, we do know that anyone who dies with a positive test for Covid has Covid registered as their cause of death ergo Covid deaths are grossly exaggerated. Something even the NHS and bodies who record these numbers fully acknowledge.

The last claim you have made is absolutely bogus. You haven't the first clue of that, you're talking utter nonsense there, complete and utterly out of your arse.

You don't get tired of making a boll!x of yourself do you?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200615/1-in-5-has-health-issues-that-impact_covid-19#1
https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2020/estimates-suggest-one-five-people-worldwide-have-underlying-health-condition
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/health/coronavirus-underlying-conditions.html

You've posted 3 links that bear absolutely no correlation to what you just said.

You'd be better off admitting you're talking out of your arse here.

Someone who is terminally ill with cancer etc and had Covid is registered as a Covid death, regardless of whether Covid was the cause of death. Do you continue to dispute that?