Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Chief]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

You're a prime example of the type of people I'm on about and you're making contradictory points.

I'm not criticising or telling anyone what to do. I am having to defend my own views and my right to make a choice on my health from fascists like you who are clearly very dogmatic against those who disagree with you.

The experts can't even find agreement with yourself so maybe you should be a bit more tolerant to the views of others and stop trying to force your ideology on others.

Yes they can, they have found 3 vaccines.

It also appears you don't understand the different between nuance & balance, and contradiction. There is zero contradiction between having sympathy with those who suffered adverse reactions to vaccines yet also allowing your arguments to have the nuance and balance of accepting that by preventing hundreds of thousands of deaths that vaccines are far and away a force for good.

You can do what you like regards a vaccine, that's your own business. But  if you come on here and post your views you can fully expect them to be ridiculed - as they deserve to be.

You should also learn the difference between fascism/nazism and groups of people, often large groups of people, laughing at you for having idiotic opinions on a matter you gave no demonstrable knowledge in.

[Angelo]

This is where Angelo sets out his master plan together with analysis of intended and unintended consequences.

If he has specific concerns on this virus what are they and what would make them go away?
What measures should society take in the interim?
What will the impact on the economy be?
What level of economic damage would be an acceptable price for that?
What would be the acceptable level of Covid deaths whilst the reassurance comes?

Before Angelo says he has answered this already he should probably reread this and related threads.

Before Angelo labels anyone a nazi he should reflect that asking questions does not a nazi make

I have answered these questions already.

There's a difference between asking questions and making allegations and insults toward people because they are quite rightly sceptical toward the vaccine.

Maybe you should practice what you preach and be a little more tolerant to others views and rather than question them. Maybe you should be less dogmatic of others and actually question yourself a little more but I suppose that's not how fascism works and therein lies the answer.

[LCohen]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Would you get a tetanus shot Angelo if a doctor told you that you needed one?

Before you suggest you don't intend to get bitten by an animal or getting your skin cut in an accident these are not events you can guarantee won't happen

I'm not anti-vaccine.

I just happen to have concerns about the speed about Covid vaccines and how quickly they have been brought to market. They should be natural concerns for any sound-thinking individual.

How long do you think it will be before you will be comfortable with a vaccine approved in 2020/2021 and rolled out in 2021?

[LCohen]

Sinn Fein's support is the most anti-vaccine - a new poll shows only 55% of SF supporters would take a Covid vaccine

That compares to 91% of Green Party supporters, 89% of Labour supporters, 83% of Fianna Fail supporters

Even the flat earthers of Aontu on 64% were ahead

I found that quite interesting

Sinn Fein really do have a large subset of supporters with very strange views

Big opportunity for leadership for Mary Lou here

[LCohen]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Would you get a tetanus shot Angelo if a doctor told you that you needed one?

Before you suggest you don't intend to get bitten by an animal or getting your skin cut in an accident these are not events you can guarantee won't happen

I would guess if he needed a tetanus jab that Angelo would only take one if the Doc could get a Jab from the pre 1940 stock. Any of the ones done since might be better but wouldn't have 80 years analysis of long term side effects

[LCohen]

This is where Angelo sets out his master plan together with analysis of intended and unintended consequences.

If he has specific concerns on this virus what are they and what would make them go away?
What measures should society take in the interim?
What will the impact on the economy be?
What level of economic damage would be an acceptable price for that?
What would be the acceptable level of Covid deaths whilst the reassurance comes?

Before Angelo says he has answered this already he should probably reread this and related threads.

Before Angelo labels anyone a nazi he should reflect that asking questions does not a nazi make

I have answered these questions already.

There's a difference between asking questions and making allegations and insults toward people because they are quite rightly sceptical toward the vaccine.

Maybe you should practice what you preach and be a little more tolerant to others views and rather than question them. Maybe you should be less dogmatic of others and actually question yourself a little more but I suppose that's not how fascism works and therein lies the answer.

Classic Angelo there. Pretend to have answered the questions already and get a nazi reference in even though he was warned on both beforehand.

I bet if he was asked to produce the quotes of him having answered the questions he could do it. He hasn't answered the questions. The quotes don't exist.

[Seaney]

But if you were 85 years of age, in good health and were sick of living in isolation, you might look at it very differently and see it as a minor risk worth taking. The problem is that it is not just about individual health; it is about public health and as far as I can see, the kind of people that are opposed to vaccinations, do not understand or support public health. Moreover, they just don't care. 

The way I see it, taking the vaccine is a minor risk for the benefit of public health.  There is a big picture: on balance of risk, what is the greater threat to worldwide health systems and the economy - vaccination or uncontrolled spread of Covid 19.  Clearly the latter.

That's some self righteous shite right there, so folk should accept health risks taking a vaccine so you can get to a football match or a concert, the NHS appear to be coping ok, who aren't coping are the cancer patients, those in isolation, the abused, the mental well being of everyone.

And those are the ones you should be taking it for. That is what herd immunity is about, eliminating the transmission paths to those who are vulnerable.
You on the other hand are not prepared to take a small risk for the greater good.

How do you know it is small, what statistical data are you using, the oxford one is under the spotlight, imagine the carnage if it is forced on poor residents in care homes and something goes astray a few months down the line - you prepared to accept that risk or are they collateral damage for the greater good, in which case why have they all been locked up all year.

So we are not to trust the MHRA and other global approval bodies. We keep everything locked down until there is more data? How much do you need, or rather how much more do you need than the MHRA, FDA, etc require?

Do you not understand the concept of long term side effects?

How many vaccines have serious adverse effects? Vaccines have been on the go for >200 years. Do you hanker for the good old days of polio, small pox and rubella?

How many were developed for mass human vaccination in 10 months, if you supply a list that would be helpful ta.

[Seaney]

But if you were 85 years of age, in good health and were sick of living in isolation, you might look at it very differently and see it as a minor risk worth taking. The problem is that it is not just about individual health; it is about public health and as far as I can see, the kind of people that are opposed to vaccinations, do not understand or support public health. Moreover, they just don't care. 

The way I see it, taking the vaccine is a minor risk for the benefit of public health.  There is a big picture: on balance of risk, what is the greater threat to worldwide health systems and the economy - vaccination or uncontrolled spread of Covid 19.  Clearly the latter.

That's some self righteous shite right there, so folk should accept health risks taking a vaccine so you can get to a football match or a concert, the NHS appear to be coping ok, who aren't coping are the cancer patients, those in isolation, the abused, the mental well being of everyone.

We have seen how the general public rank public health in terms of importance against their need to go shopping at Primark or go drinking in Temple Bar.  The public can't or won't take the kind of precautions necessary to protect public health to allow us to live with Covid.

It is not about whether I can go to a football match nor is it about about individual risks versus individual benefits.  Vaccination is about what works at population level for the greater good of public health, the health service and economy also.  It's not self-righteous, it's common sense. 

If it wasn't for the successive lockdowns, social distancing etc the NHS would be overrun.  Despite best efforts, major unseen damage is actually being done to public health systems and the NHS by Covid.  The longer this goes on the greater the risks to other areas of health at a population level, including cancer, mental health services or social care.  The system doesn't have capacity to cope with increased incidence of mental illness, or of large numbers of delayed cancer diagnoses.

The vaccine will be most effective if it is taken on a widespread basis across the population.  The benefits to public health of a vaccine are enormous and the risks are tiny.

The problem is that the success of the vaccine is undermined if large swathes of people choose not to take it due to some perceived risk to their own health.  They might calculate that Covid will do them very little harm if they get it and that they would prefer to take the risk of catching Covid than taking the vaccine.   The problem is however, that if this reservoir of people is big enough (because they believe everything they read online or hear from their esteemed Engineering PHd friend), it will mean that  the disease will continue to thrive and mutate in the human population, ultimately undermining the effectiveness both the vaccine programme and the vaccine itself. 

Covid really has brought out the worst in many people and a lot of what we see is pure selfishness and a large dollop of gullibility.  I think if you surveyed the anti-vaxxers, the anti-maskers, the covid deniers and the covidiots you would find a lot of narcissism, selfishness and a fair few mental health issues also.

Its amazing how society has changed with those hiding behind a keyboard, nowadays if one doesn't agree with the narrative they are berated, dehumanised, accused is self arrogance, selfishness  etc. and that is accepted by the self righteous.  Back in the day if this was being debated in a pub I seriously doubt you would question the mental health of anyone with a cautious approach to a expediently created vaccine, but whatever rocks your boat.

Back in the day before the Internet, clowns like you would only have the pub to debate in and the rest of the sane world would put their faith in people who have spent their life gaining the qualifications and experience to make decisions on medicine, epidemiology, the economy and a million other subjects you haven't a clue about.

I just read clown and ignored the rest, bet you are the guy who wins the argument by shouting and screaming the loudest.

[Seaney]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

Are these the experts who's predictions to date and who's rules to date have been well, bollock.

[Chief]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

Are these the experts who's predictions to date and who's rules to date have been well, bollock.

No.

Thee vaccination experts neither made the lockdown rules nor made predictions about the potency of the virus. The former was politicians, the latter a mixture of epidemiologists and behavioural scientists for the most part.

The vaccinations experts are the same genre who have rid the world of several lethal diseases over the course of the last century or so, and helped vastly reduce the effects of many others.

I'm not surprised you hadn't clocked the difference. Your chemical engineer mate will probably be able to explain it to you though.

[LCohen]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

Are these the experts who's predictions to date and who's rules to date have been well, bollock.

Struggling to remember a more inane post on any thread, ever.

Utterly embarrassing.

[Seamus]

Of the 70% or so of yes voters how many of ye are for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination?

How many would agree that children 11 years old and upwards can consent to all vaccinations without their parents knowledge?

"The District of Columbia (DC) is advancing a bill which circumvents parental consent when it comes to their minor children being given a vaccine. The "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act of 2019," states, "this bill permits a minor of any age to consent to receive a vaccine where the vaccination is recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. It also establishes that if a minor is able to comprehend the need for, the nature of, and any significant risks inherent in the medical care then informed consent is established."

According to The Vaccine Reaction, "The bill would not only permit children aged 11 years and older to give consent for doctors and other vaccine administrators to give them vaccines without their parents' knowledge or consent, but would also require insurance companies, vaccine administrators and schools to conceal from parents that the child has been vaccinated."

The report clarifies, "If this bill passes, it is clear that minor children will be at risk of being pressured and coerced into getting a COVID-19 vaccine behind their parents' back."

The crimes against humanity continues.

[JoG2]

Of the 70% or so of yes voters how many of ye are for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination?

How many would agree that children 11 years old and upwards can consent to all vaccinations without their parents knowledge?

"The District of Columbia (DC) is advancing a bill which circumvents parental consent when it comes to their minor children being given a vaccine. The "Minor Consent for Vaccinations Amendment Act of 2019," states, "this bill permits a minor of any age to consent to receive a vaccine where the vaccination is recommended by the United States Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. It also establishes that if a minor is able to comprehend the need for, the nature of, and any significant risks inherent in the medical care then informed consent is established."

According to The Vaccine Reaction, "The bill would not only permit children aged 11 years and older to give consent for doctors and other vaccine administrators to give them vaccines without their parents' knowledge or consent, but would also require insurance companies, vaccine administrators and schools to conceal from parents that the child has been vaccinated."

The report clarifies, "If this bill passes, it is clear that minor children will be at risk of being pressured and coerced into getting a COVID-19 vaccine behind their parents' back."

The crimes against humanity journalism continues.

[lenny]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

Are these the experts who's predictions to date and who's rules to date have been well, bollock.

No.

Thee vaccination experts neither made the lockdown rules nor made predictions about the potency of the virus. The former was politicians, the latter a mixture of epidemiologists and behavioural scientists for the most part.

The vaccinations experts are the same genre who have rid the world of several lethal diseases over the course of the last century or so, and helped vastly reduce the effects of many others.

I'm not surprised you hadn't clocked the difference. Your chemical engineer mate will probably be able to explain it to you though.

Once the vaccine is widely available it's important that there's a good take up so we can end the lockdowns. I wouldn't make the vaccine compulsory but it should be linked to accessing large crowds like sporting events, concerts and going through airports. That way we can eradicate the virus from society.

[Seaney]

If only we could get polio, small pox etc etc back.....

Polio?

You're bringing Polio into it? Did you hear about or remember the Polio vaccine that paralysed people for life?

I really pit the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question on here:

Neil Lennon
Vaccines and Big Pharma

Did you hear about or remember about all the people Polio killed before a vaccine stopped that?

I really pity the stupidity of some of you on here.

A list of the things we simply cannot question or debate on here:

- The effectiveness of vaccines in improving mortality rates in the vast majority of cases
- The primacy of scientific process over amateurs with egos

So you're just going to remove the fact that an approved vaccine paralysed people for life?

Of course vaccines can help but they can also cause serious consequences, what is disappointing is that we have a group of vaccine fascists on here who are very dogmatic with people who are quite right to have concerns about the vaccines introduced here.

Discount? No

Put them in the larger context of the thousands of lives that have been saved? Yes.

Listen to the people who actually know what they are talking about in relation to these things? Yes

Berate people who are not experts but contradict qualified experts? Yes - their opinions deserve it

Are these the experts who's predictions to date and who's rules to date have been well, bollock.

No.

Thee vaccination experts neither made the lockdown rules nor made predictions about the potency of the virus. The former was politicians, the latter a mixture of epidemiologists and behavioural scientists for the most part.

The vaccinations experts are the same genre who have rid the world of several lethal diseases over the course of the last century or so, and helped vastly reduce the effects of many others.

I'm not surprised you hadn't clocked the difference. Your chemical engineer mate will probably be able to explain it to you though.

Again how many of the vaccinations experts have produced a mass rollout vaccination in 10 months, as I asked the other guy post a list can you ta.