The US policing crisis thread

Started by Eamonnca1, April 28, 2015, 07:10:37 AM

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screenexile

In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

whitey

Quote from: gallsman on April 28, 2015, 04:12:11 PM
Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:41:41 PM
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Quote from: whitey on April 28, 2015, 03:54:36 PM
Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?

Ah Jaysus were so far into the weeds here we'll never get out

AZ made some accurate statements about the military hoopla which goes on at US sporting events. The point which I tired (unsuccessfully it would seem) to make was when you view this hoopla through the eyes of the fans who attend such events, they would most likely have a different view of the military than say most people in Ireland (who probably wouldn't know a single person who served in either Iraq or Afghanistan) Most would think it's great (or at least he ones I know do)

Pat Tillman is relevant to the conversation, because here you have a real time real life hero who gave up a multi million dollar contract and endorsements to serve his country in an elite special forces unit. AZ Cardinals fans would most likely not  view a tribute to the military as hoopla in any way shape or form






muppet

Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Fear, uncertainty & doubt
MWWSI 2017

J70

Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:46:39 PM
In terms of Baltimore I've been following it loosely until today.

Trump has basically accused "Our Great African American President" of not doing enough to stop it and is calling for the Mayor to stand down.

Do people really think Obama is sitting in the Whitehouse thinking ... hmmm yeah I'll let this situation play out and start a race war in Baltimore!!


Fox seem to be peddling the notion that the Administration are quietly condoning attacks on Law Enforcement.

Flat out lunatics. If... IF this is the case what possible purpose does it serve Obama or his administration. In todays world if there was even a hint of this being a policy of his people would be whistleblowing on it straight away. Any wonder Yanks are so paranoid with this drivel they're being fed. They think Palestine is for invading in the morning for God's sake!!

Don't mind Trump. He will say anything to get in the news, especially stuff to endear him to the Fox watching tinfoil hat crowd. And Fox, well, what else would they say given the demands of their audience?

foxcommander

Quote from: macdanger2 on April 28, 2015, 04:03:02 PM
Muppet, can you ever have a discussion without this complete insistence that you're right all the time and no other point of view is relevant?

Not sure if you mean to do it or if it's just the way you discuss things but it makes you come across as one hell of an annoying c*nt.

LOL!!
Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

AZOffaly

Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.

J70

Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Race war??

Are you fuckin serious?

What the hell is the matter with you?

Bord na Mona man

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.

muppet

Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM
Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.

Absoutely. I have no doubt that there is far more gun play in the US than anywhere else. I believe it stems from the general gun society over there where cops are much more willing to take a life rather than risk their own when they know guns are everywhere. It absolutely leads to bad, reckless kills, but I think they are in some way understandable. (Not justified, just I can see why a nervous cop in fear for his life might shoot). Incidents like the disgraceful one in South Carolina are outliers and pure murder and cannot be either justified or understood.

There is no doubt some of these guys shoot first and ask questions later out of fear. I would imagine some of these neighbourhoods are not places you would want to find yourself so yes it is understandable to a degree. But better resources and training might help.

That and scrapping the NRA and FOX.
MWWSI 2017

foxcommander

#69
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!



There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

...and Nappies for all!!

Every second of the day there's a Democrat telling a lie

whitey

Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 28, 2015, 05:10:51 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on April 28, 2015, 12:38:43 PM
whitey, it seems to me that the whole faux patriotism and thanks for your service lark has gone through the roof since 9/11 particularly. I'm sure the Vietnam vets are bemused by all this. Where was the thanks for their service?  It's a cynical ploy, in my view, to maintain support for the foreign wars of the US, and to maintain recruitment rates.
Yep, imagine how popular a war would be if the production line of recruits ran out and they had to resort to conscription. Having to use the draft in Vietnam was a disaster in PR terms. 

You could see it as annoying militarism, or maybe some of the US public are happy enough to run with, so long as it ensures that enough Billy Bobs and Jethros answer the call of duty and the war is kept from their doorstep.

As whitey might put it, most people in Ireland wouldn't know a single person who had to dodge the draft.

Having seen what I have seen and now that I know what I know....I would be all in favor of compulsory military service with no waivers and a separate line item on your pay stub showing a "war tax". Those fvcking idiots may not be as fast to start a war next time around if people truly knew the cost...both human and financial

The Iceman

He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

screenexile

Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!

J70

Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 28, 2015, 03:15:56 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on April 28, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 28, 2015, 09:04:58 AM
So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!



There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

Nappies for all!!



;D Fair enough.

Should be easy enough to ID all those people however.

The Iceman

Quote from: screenexile on April 28, 2015, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on April 28, 2015, 05:18:52 PM
He isn't exactly handling it well? calls for the police and national guard to show restraint- doesn't ask for rioters to stand down and again stokes the flames of rasicm by sending a representative to Mr. Grays funeral.....
His comments after the Michael Brown case where similar. He isn't helping matters....  but maybe in the past 8 years black and white are doing better..... maybe there is no more racism in America and I'm completely wrong...

Of course there is racism in America. My issue is what has Obama to gain by "stoking up these racial tensions" as you speak of it?? Should the National Guard and Police not show restraint so as not to exacerbate the situation? The rioters are obviously criminals what good is the President telling rioters to stand down going to do?!!
the same as politicians and leaders all over the world who condemn the actions of people acting illegally..... Because you think it won't make a difference as a leader and commander in chief of the USA he shouldn't tell Rioters to stand down??

The silence is deafening..... He doesn't speak up against the riots and sends someone on his behalf to the funeral....nothing to see here...
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight