Author Topic: The US policing crisis thread  (Read 78113 times)

whitey

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2015, 04:09:32 PM »
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world. They're absolutely entitled to their opinion. The people, who in my opinion, express this view the loudest weren't shy about relying on the very same (Irish)Americans for arms and cash when they were engaged in their most recent struggle. Those in glass house and all that

If you help bomb people back into the stone age, then expect blowback. Legitimacy is irrelevant. If you kick a stray dog enough it will bite you. That is not saying that it is right, just that it will happen.

Arguing about legitimacy is missing the point.

So when exactly did the Irish have this awakening? The U.S. has been supporting Israel since the 1940s.  Quite convenient that they had their "come to Jesus moment" after they no longer needed arms or money from America-LOL

Ireland refused to establish relations with Israel until 1975, due to their on-going violations of UN resolutions.

So in conclusion, you have no argument.

I don't think the people who got arms and money from America recognized "Ireland" either-and they seems to me to be the loudest in their condemnation of US foreign policy

screenexile

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2015, 04:10:08 PM »
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

AZOffaly

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2015, 04:10:57 PM »
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

gallsman

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2015, 04:12:11 PM »
Well most Irish people I know think that because the US supports Israel, they are a legitimate target for attack from the Islamic world.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

Still don't hink it's an apples to apples comparison-Name me one player from the Premiership who gave up a muti million pound contract to the Army and serve in an active service unit.

What in the name of God does this have to do with anything? Pat Tillman's actions were honourable and commendable (unlike those who covered up the circumstances of his death so they could continue to utilise his celebrity) but what point are you actually trying to make? Premiership footballers are overpaid prima donnas who care about little beyond women and fast cars? That may be the case but what's that got to do with the militarisation of sporting events in the US?
"Never mind your why. Why ain't in your repetoire no more n***a"

AZOffaly

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2015, 04:13:26 PM »
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

J70

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2015, 04:14:47 PM »
You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.

As long as other people's kids are lining up to go and die or be hideously maimed, Americans will keep supporting US foreign policy. Because Soviets/Saddam/AL Qaida/ISIS/Ebola are coming to American shores...

whitey

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2015, 04:16:11 PM »
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

muppet

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2015, 04:16:17 PM »
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

He is from Mayo afaik.

Suggesting that because Noraid existed, it somehow prohibits us from having an opinion on Israel is, even if we didn't support Noraid is........well I'd better not say or MacDanger will get offended.
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AZOffaly

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2015, 04:17:50 PM »
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.

muppet

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2015, 04:23:18 PM »
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

You can provide clarity and context, but surely you can't just simply dismiss the stat: 111 killed in 1 month v 52 in 115 years?

It doesn't mean we are calling the police in the US crazed killers, it is obviously something much deeper in society than that. But before anyone finds a solution to the problem, firstly key people will need to start accepting that there is a problem.
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The Iceman

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2015, 04:23:28 PM »
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

whitey

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2015, 04:25:57 PM »
OK, now you are primarily talking about the Republicans in the 6 counties? Earlier you referred to most Irish people you know. So either most Irish people you know are Republicans from the wee 6, or else you made that up :)

Most Irish people I know who have an opinion hold that opinion. Of course a lot of people could give a shit too

You said something like the people who opine loudest (that you know) are those who wanted gun money from the states.

Yes, I would stand by that opinion.  Let's just say that I personally know a well known, High profile Sinn fein member who was Stateside before the peace process started up. He is now an Elected representative. Let's just say, I had some very interesting conversations with him

screenexile

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2015, 04:28:37 PM »
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

That may be true AZ but the numbers are overwhelming even if you take into account population we are talking over 100 years for the UK and 1 month for the US!!

Of course it isn't just the fault of the police force for all these killings and the Gun Culture accounts for a hell of a lot of death by cop in the US but even still it's enormous!!

screenexile

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2015, 04:29:30 PM »
Not justifying the riots or violence by any means. Simply sharing some interesting reading on on going and historical police brutality in Baltimore:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/?fb_ref=Default

The Mayor should be impeached. And Obama is doing himself no favors - he has yet to condemn the riots and looks like he is quietly stirring up a race war...?

Is that you Hannity??!!!!?!!!

johnneycool

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Re: The US policing crisis thread
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2015, 04:32:24 PM »
Came across this the other week which is quite disturbing . . .
Quote
American police killed more people in March (111) than the entire UK police have killed since 1900
by Shaun King


Yeah. Those numbers are real.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

Don't bother adjusting for population differences, or poverty, or mental illness, or anything else. The sheer fact that American police kill TWICE as many people per month as police have killed in the modern history of the United Kingdom is sick, preposterous, and alarming.

In March:

Police beat Phillip White to death in New Jersey. He was unarmed.

Police shot and killed Meagan Hockaday, a 26-year-old mother of three.

Police shot and killed Nicholas Thomas, an unarmed man on his job at Goodyear in metro Atlanta.

Police shot and killed Anthony Hill, an unarmed war veteran fighting through mental illness, in metro Atlanta.

I could tell 107 more of those stories.

This has to end.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. How many of the 111 police kills involved shoot outs with armed criminals? How likely is a copper in the UK to encounter an armed Criminal, and when he does is he any less likely to kill him? Statistics without context are dangerous because they lead to emotive comments.

I'd say if you trawled through enough stats you'd find that more Cops in the US have been gunned down that the police in the UK, so its no wonder some of the Cops in certain situations are prepared to shot first and ask questions later.

Whilst I can understand that, with that comes an acceptance that the Police have a difficult and dnagerous job to do, so the legislators seemingly turn a blind eye to all indiscretions irrespective if the Cop was in any danger or not and the cops themselves are taking liberties.

There's no easy solution especially when every nut job can get their hands on a gun of one kind or other, legally or otherwise.