Laochra Gael TG4 (New Series)

[6th sam]

No doubt Sean Cavanagh was a fine player Angelo but I think putting him in top 5 of the last 30 years is stretching it somewhat.

In terms of influence he has to be there.

5 all-stars, 1 FOTY and a key player on the 3 All Ireland's Tyrone won. Name me five more influential players in the past 30 years. He has to be up there.

That's fair enough and more people will probably agree with you than me (they might actually lol at some of my suggestions) but it is purely subjective. The only reason I'm saying is that it's a bit of stretch is the fact it's over the 30 years. If it was purely over the last 15-20 then aye fair enough no doubt he's in the argument.

In terms of what they have done for their respective teams I would go. In no particular order.

Cluxton
Canavan
Giles
Tomas O'Se
Michael Murphy
Brian Fenton

Can't disagree with most of that , Rich Ricci,  but Tomás O'Sé?

Cavanagh was a top performer but compared to others, too much of his influence was due to the less attractive side of the game: cynical fouling , diving, pressurising referees. I would say that His working for rte and comments about Harte lost him a lot of respect in Tyrone and elsewhere . For me O'Neill, and especially Canavan were significantly better, with Canavan in the frame for being the best player of all time ( and I'm not even a Tyrone man.)

[Angelo]

No doubt Sean Cavanagh was a fine player Angelo but I think putting him in top 5 of the last 30 years is stretching it somewhat.

In terms of influence he has to be there.

5 all-stars, 1 FOTY and a key player on the 3 All Ireland's Tyrone won. Name me five more influential players in the past 30 years. He has to be up there.

That's fair enough and more people will probably agree with you than me (they might actually lol at some of my suggestions) but it is purely subjective. The only reason I'm saying is that it's a bit of stretch is the fact it's over the 30 years. If it was purely over the last 15-20 then aye fair enough no doubt he's in the argument.

In terms of what they have done for their respective teams I would go. In no particular order.

Cluxton
Canavan
Giles
Tomas O'Se
Michael Murphy
Brian Fenton

Can't disagree with most of that , Rich Ricci,  but Tomás O'Sé?

Cavanagh was a top performer but compared to others, too much of his influence was due to the less attractive side of the game: cynical fouling , diving, pressurising referees. I would say that His working for rte and comments about Harte lost him a lot of respect in Tyrone and elsewhere . For me O'Neill, and especially Canavan were significantly better, with Canavan in the frame for being the best player of all time ( and I'm not even a Tyrone man.)

O'Neill was a tremendous footballer but was nowhere near the influential footballer Cavanagh was for Tyrone

Think that's a very fair depiction of Cavanagh, a lot of the classic games were shown over the past year with lockdowns and plenty of them from that Tyrone team. What was very evident is that Cavanagh was consistently and deliberately targeted by the opposition with late hits, pulling and dragging, off the ball stuff over the years. He had an incredible engine and nobody in his era could match his running power and scoring ability from the middle of the pitch.

I can fully understand why he was an unlikeable figure but I think if people look back at the early Cavanagh years he got very little protection from referees and maybe that says a lot in how he behaved toward the end of his career.

[Rich Ricci]

Awk I don't maybe it's a slight bias because he's one of my favourite players over the years but has any half back been as dominant in the position as he has been over the years? Keegan, McCaffrey, Lacey and McGeeney maybe but for me he was in the best in the last 20 years.

5 All-Ireland's, 5 All stars and a POTY award. 3-35 or thereabouts isn't bad going for a half back. Pound for pound I dont think there's many players who have achieved as much or performed as well in their position as he has in his.

[Angelo]

Awk I don't maybe it's a slight bias because he's one of my favourite players over the years but has any half back been as dominant in the position as he has been over the years? Keegan, McCaffrey, Lacey and McGeeney maybe but for me he was in the best in the last 20 years.

5 All-Ireland's, 5 All stars and a POTY award. 3-35 or thereabouts isn't bad going for a half back. Pound for pound I dont think there's many players who have achieved as much or performed as well in their position as he has in his.

The problem for Kerry is that those 5 All Irelands that were won were

2 against ordinary enough Mayo teams
2 against a very big and athletic Cork team who stumbled over the line v Down in 2011.

When it came to the big battles against Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal they struggled to come out on top. Kerry's most impressive wins in the past 20 years for me would be Armagh in 06 (I think?) and Donegal in 2014.

By virtue of the construct of the Championship, Kerry were parachuted into the business end of the Championship every August. They didn't have to be throwing lads carrying niggles out for crunch games back in May like Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal had to.

Pre-Dublin dominance era the back door was a trail of banana skins. The only time Kerry had to come through the early stages of the back door was when they won it in 09 but they had some iffy enough performances along the line. Stumbled past Longford and Antrim and Sligo really should have put them out below in Kerry when they missed a late penalty with minutes left.

Tyrone had a number of scares through the backdoor. They were in serious bother against Westmeath in 08 before Westmeath imploded and had 2 players sent off in the second half. Mayo know full well on how dangerous the qualifier path can be in recent years. Cork, Derry, Fermanagh and Armagh all nearly had them out and Kildare managed it. I think they have bore the cost of that with the injuries they absorbed in recent years.

That's something Kerry historically have not really had to concern themselves with.

[Hoof Hearted]

If cavanagh had conducted himself the way canavan has and basically kept his mouth shut to the media about former teammates and managers  and not being all about me me me he could be talked about in the same breath about being a legend

[Milltown Row2]

Awk I don't maybe it's a slight bias because he's one of my favourite players over the years but has any half back been as dominant in the position as he has been over the years? Keegan, McCaffrey, Lacey and McGeeney maybe but for me he was in the best in the last 20 years.

5 All-Ireland's, 5 All stars and a POTY award. 3-35 or thereabouts isn't bad going for a half back. Pound for pound I dont think there's many players who have achieved as much or performed as well in their position as he has in his.

The problem for Kerry is that those 5 All Irelands that were won were

2 against ordinary enough Mayo teams
2 against a very big and athletic Cork team who stumbled over the line v Down in 2011.

When it came to the big battles against Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal they struggled to come out on top. Kerry's most impressive wins in the past 20 years for me would be Armagh in 06 (I think?) and Donegal in 2014.

By virtue of the construct of the Championship, Kerry were parachuted into the business end of the Championship every August. They didn't have to be throwing lads carrying niggles out for crunch games back in May like Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal had to.

Pre-Dublin dominance era the back door was a trail of banana skins. The only time Kerry had to come through the early stages of the back door was when they won it in 09 but they had some iffy enough performances along the line. Stumbled past Longford and Antrim and Sligo really should have put them out below in Kerry when they missed a late penalty with minutes left.

Tyrone had a number of scares through the backdoor. They were in serious bother against Westmeath in 08 before Westmeath imploded and had 2 players sent off in the second half. Mayo know full well on how dangerous the qualifier path can be in recent years. Cork, Derry, Fermanagh and Armagh all nearly had them out and Kildare managed it. I think they have bore the cost of that with the injuries they absorbed in recent years.

That's something Kerry historically have not really had to concern themselves with.

Not going through the back door is the best way and usually the best teams come through the front door.

Kerry are not at fault of Cork and the other Munster teams don't perform.

[GetOverTheBar]

If cavanagh had conducted himself the way canavan has and basically kept his mouth shut to the media about former teammates and managers  and not being all about me me me he could be talked about in the same breath about being a legend

No matter what you may think of Mickey Harte and his war on RTE. Cavanagh going on RTE the same week he retired said it all about him.

[Rich Ricci]

To me that Kerry side was a very good side littered with quality players throughout. The likes of the 3 O'Se's, Paul Galvin, Declan O'Sullivan, Cooper and prime Donaghy were exceptional players at the time. In the period 03-09 they won 4 All Ireland's and were beat in 2 finals. Remarkable consistency. Fair enough the defeats to Tyrone is a slight on their overall greatness but I think it's unfair to say they only beat poor teams.

[imtommygunn]

The likes of Joyce Fallon and donnelan very  influential too. Tohill as well. Probably a few more Meath boys.

[6th sam]

Awk I don't maybe it's a slight bias because he's one of my favourite players over the years but has any half back been as dominant in the position as he has been over the years? Keegan, McCaffrey, Lacey and McGeeney maybe but for me he was in the best in the last 20 years.

5 All-Ireland's, 5 All stars and a POTY award. 3-35 or thereabouts isn't bad going for a half back. Pound for pound I dont think there's many players who have achieved as much or performed as well in their position as he has in his.

The problem for Kerry is that those 5 All Irelands that were won were

2 against ordinary enough Mayo teams
2 against a very big and athletic Cork team who stumbled over the line v Down in 2011.

When it came to the big battles against Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal they struggled to come out on top. Kerry's most impressive wins in the past 20 years for me would be Armagh in 06 (I think?) and Donegal in 2014.

By virtue of the construct of the Championship, Kerry were parachuted into the business end of the Championship every August. They didn't have to be throwing lads carrying niggles out for crunch games back in May like Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal had to.

Pre-Dublin dominance era the back door was a trail of banana skins. The only time Kerry had to come through the early stages of the back door was when they won it in 09 but they had some iffy enough performances along the line. Stumbled past Longford and Antrim and Sligo really should have put them out below in Kerry when they missed a late penalty with minutes left.

Tyrone had a number of scares through the backdoor. They were in serious bother against Westmeath in 08 before Westmeath imploded and had 2 players sent off in the second half. Mayo know full well on how dangerous the qualifier path can be in recent years. Cork, Derry, Fermanagh and Armagh all nearly had them out and Kildare managed it. I think they have bore the cost of that with the injuries they absorbed in recent years.

That's something Kerry historically have not really had to concern themselves with.

A Great synopsis Angelo, the advantages the AI system conveys on Kerry amongst others has been a big factor in their success and their winning tradition

[6th sam]

Awk I don't maybe it's a slight bias because he's one of my favourite players over the years but has any half back been as dominant in the position as he has been over the years? Keegan, McCaffrey, Lacey and McGeeney maybe but for me he was in the best in the last 20 years.

5 All-Ireland's, 5 All stars and a POTY award. 3-35 or thereabouts isn't bad going for a half back. Pound for pound I dont think there's many players who have achieved as much or performed as well in their position as he has in his.

The problem for Kerry is that those 5 All Irelands that were won were

2 against ordinary enough Mayo teams
2 against a very big and athletic Cork team who stumbled over the line v Down in 2011.

When it came to the big battles against Armagh, Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal they struggled to come out on top. Kerry's most impressive wins in the past 20 years for me would be Armagh in 06 (I think?) and Donegal in 2014.

By virtue of the construct of the Championship, Kerry were parachuted into the business end of the Championship every August. They didn't have to be throwing lads carrying niggles out for crunch games back in May like Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal had to.

Pre-Dublin dominance era the back door was a trail of banana skins. The only time Kerry had to come through the early stages of the back door was when they won it in 09 but they had some iffy enough performances along the line. Stumbled past Longford and Antrim and Sligo really should have put them out below in Kerry when they missed a late penalty with minutes left.

Tyrone had a number of scares through the backdoor. They were in serious bother against Westmeath in 08 before Westmeath imploded and had 2 players sent off in the second half. Mayo know full well on how dangerous the qualifier path can be in recent years. Cork, Derry, Fermanagh and Armagh all nearly had them out and Kildare managed it. I think they have bore the cost of that with the injuries they absorbed in recent years.

That's something Kerry historically have not really had to concern themselves with.

Not going through the back door is the best way and usually the best teams come through the front door.

Kerry are not at fault of Cork and the other Munster teams don't perform.

The system is not Kerry's fault, but it does confer advantage on them. Clare ?1992 and Tipp 2020 have been the only exceptions to Kerry/Cork dominance in probably 70+ years. In that time the ulster title has been shared by 8 counties , Fermanagh being the only exception and they've made it AI closing stages on a couple of occasions . I don't think we should get rid of provincials as they are ready-made local  stadium fillers, but They shouldn't confer such an advantage into latter stages of AI. NFL status should also be taken into account to breath life into that competition and reward performance in an unbiased competition. Hurling has also shown that strict provincial restrictions need not necessarily apply eg Galway in Leinster

[BennyCake]

If cavanagh had conducted himself the way canavan has and basically kept his mouth shut to the media about former teammates and managers  and not being all about me me me he could be talked about in the same breath about being a legend

No matter what you may think of Mickey Harte and his war on RTE. Cavanagh going on RTE the same week he retired said it all about him.

What did Cavanagh say about Harte? Must have missed that.

[GetOverTheBar]

He didn't say anything, bar mentioning the thing in the book about the pressure getting to him.

For a man managed him for his whole career it was a bit strange.

[redzone]

Cavanagh said that Harte came to his house and aplozised. Said it was the ghost writer that slipped it in to the book. Cavanagh left it at that as he seen the bigger picture.
Don't know how yous missed that bit.

[Jim Bob]

"Don't blame me blame the ghost writer,"  which , if true , is a big an insult to any man's  intelligence as I've ever heard .....