Dublin v Derry - 14 March 2009

[orangeman]

Great result for Derry - Gilroy is up against it now. He was always going to be up against it but it's going to be tougher from here on.

[INDIANA]

Hats off to Derry who kicked some tremendous scores and totally dominated the 2nd half.

Ger Brennan is worth his place on the team, but definitely not at 6.

It'll be Henry and Griffin at 2 and 4 come championship, because they are our best two intercounty corner backs.

Most insipid Dublin performance in Parnell that I can remember.

We were beyond belief we were so poor. We're going backwards at a rate of knots and there is no sector of the team functioning. They take off Bonner when we can't win a ball at midfield . Derry had the luxury of taking off their best players last night. There is no question about it but having watched Laois last night- Leinster is by far the weakest province at the moment.
I think the management are in big trouble too. If they don't win next week metaphorcially speaking the shit will hit the fan. Poorest crowd at a sat night league game in a long time. Totally depressed this morning.

[Maguire01]

There is no question about it but having watched Laois last night- Leinster is by far the weakest province at the moment.

Have to agree there. Westmeath seem to have taken a step back, Meath and Laois are threading water in Division 2, Wexford are on the way back to Division 3, three other Leinster teams are in Division 3 (and quite possibly all staying there) and three more in Division 4 (again, all quite possibly staying there). It's bleak. Kildare for the Leinster title in 2009?

[INDIANA]

Kildare would be favourites at this stage. Unbelievably Dublin are not prioritising a leinster title. Its not about priortising anything in my view its about winning games. Winning games breeds confidence. i've never subscribed to the idea that winning leinster championships has stopped us in the all-ireland race. We just haven't been good enough outside our province similar to Armagh.

[Zulu]

Unlike Laois, I didn't think Dublin were that bad, in the second half they were very poor alright but I thought they played some good football in the first half. I also think they do have good footballers but some of them just aren't playing well at the moment, they're also short some of their main players and they clearly need these guys back if they are going to compete. I do think the management need to look at settling down the team for championship from now on though, for example Brennan at center back won't do IMO, wing back maybe but center no. I'd drop Henry back to corner back now, he hasn't set the world alight at wing forward (though he has done alright in fairness) but he is needed at CB so get him in there. Play Keaney at full forward and leave him there with Bernard Brogan in one of the corners, I'd also give Ciaran Whelan a break for a game or two and play McConnell and Ryan midfield. I thought Whelan was very poor last night but the reason I'd do this is to give McConnell his head and see how he goes, with Whelan beside him he is the junior partner but with him gone he would be the main ball winner with Ryan offering the mobility. One way or another Dublin need to nail down who is going to play championship at 2, 4, 6, 9, 11 & 14 soon.

[David McKeown]

Kildare would be favourites at this stage. Unbelievably Dublin are not prioritising a leinster title. Its not about priortising anything in my view its about winning games. Winning games breeds confidence. i've never subscribed to the idea that winning leinster championships has stopped us in the all-ireland race. We just haven't been good enough outside our province similar to Armagh.

Not disagreeing with what your saying but just out of curiosity Armagh have only been beaten by teams from outside Ulster 3 times in the last 8 championships (since the back door came in) contrasted with 7 defeats to ulster teams (3 in ulster championship) in that period where Armagh won 5 Ulsters. Armagh also have beaten a significantly higher number of non ulster teams than they lost to in that period.   How does Dublins record compare to this?

[INDIANA]

Unlike Laois, I didn't think Dublin were that bad, in the second half they were very poor alright but I thought they played some good football in the first half. I also think they do have good footballers but some of them just aren't playing well at the moment, they're also short some of their main players and they clearly need these guys back if they are going to compete. I do think the management need to look at settling down the team for championship from now on though, for example Brennan at center back won't do IMO, wing back maybe but center no. I'd drop Henry back to corner back now, he hasn't set the world alight at wing forward (though he has done alright in fairness) but he is needed at CB so get him in there. Play Keaney at full forward and leave him there with Bernard Brogan in one of the corners, I'd also give Ciaran Whelan a break for a game or two and play McConnell and Ryan midfield. I thought Whelan was very poor last night but the reason I'd do this is to give McConnell his head and see how he goes, with Whelan beside him he is the junior partner but with him gone he would be the main ball winner with Ryan offering the mobility. One way or another Dublin need to nail down who is going to play championship at 2, 4, 6, 9, 11 & 14 soon.

I can't agree Zulu, last night was the worst dublin display bar last august since the early 70's . It really was that bad. Derry took off all their main players and won in a canter. No disrepect to Derry but they are barely top5 - it wasn't as if we were playing kerry-tyrone,galway or cork. I know Derry have underachieved and its obvious they have a lot of talent but on the basis of prior championship form they are barely top 5, thats what made it so bad at the moment- but I think they will make a major challenge this year.
I mean Paddy Andrews is one the best club forwards in the county- and we play him at corner back? Some of the others are not up to it either and they were afraid to take off big names last night. Not a good sign.
We don't have many to come back Zulu. Vaughan isn't a regular starter, Griffin hasn't been great either for us recently. Cian O Sullivan is one who could add somthing. Shane Ryan has an arse the size of a small country at the moment and he needs to ship weight sooner rather than later. Hard to know where we're going at the moment and the management don't seem to know either which makes it worse.
We have absolutely no chance of an all-ireland in the near future. We don't have the players , but we're not even getting the best out of what we have either.

[Zulu]

obviously I'd bow to your knowledge of dublin football over the past 30 years but I don't agree that it was that bad Indiana, the first half wasn't bad at all, though the second was woeful. Nevertheless I think Henry, Bastick and Griffin in the FB line and maybe Brennen and O'Sullivan on either side of 6 (or maybe Lally) would be a decent half back line, though I'm not sure who should be 6, maybe Shane Ryan? Midfield Whelan and AN other and upfront the 2 Brogans and Keaney are certainties with Vaughan, Sherlock, Connelly, Bonner, Andrews etc. looking to fill the gaps. It's not bad IMO though I agree Dublin won't win the AI this year and the management need time, certainly more than a year to make their mark. I'd also disagree with you about Derry, they are as much a threat as Cork or Galway to Tyrone's title IMO. I can understand your frustration though Indiana and Dublin football looks like it could do with a root and branch review, yer not producing enough really top quality players especially when you consider you have 3 or 4 of the country's best clubs.

[INDIANA]

Too many foreign stars plying their trade up here Zulu and the clubs have to be blamed for that but i beleive the county board is going to step in soon- at last on that one.
Our underage record is poor and doesn't help. The problem is for the mangement if they lose a lot of games this year there won't be a second year. They need to put some shape on the team now and forget about experimentation. Can never understand Dublin's constant apathy towards the league- we have the arrogance to think we can turn up in the championship and turn it on-while tyrone and kerry constantly do well in the league as preparation for the championship. Brainless.

[criostlinn]

Kildare would be favourites at this stage. Unbelievably Dublin are not prioritising a leinster title. Its not about priortising anything in my view its about winning games. Winning games breeds confidence. i've never subscribed to the idea that winning leinster championships has stopped us in the all-ireland race. We just haven't been good enough outside our province similar to Armagh.

Paddy Power still giving 10/1 on kildare. Ladbrokes were 12/1 this morning but have moved them to 8/1. Definatley worth a punt I think

[Canalman]

Nowhere near good enough I'm sad to say and going nowhere quickly. An abject display encapsulated by Diarmuid Connolly's inability (yet again) to hold on to the football. McConnell was anonymous and but for Cluxton's saves humiliation (yet again) was on the cards.

Maybe, rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic, but Henry should be shipped back corner back pronto and left there. Only Cluxton,Brogan (B), Keaney (barely) and Cahill  can hold their heads up after last night.

I fear I caught a glimpse of the future for Dublin football last night and it wasn't pleasant.

[screenexile]

Indiana we would beat Cork comfortably and will give Galway a right game next week. For me the rankings at the minute would be Tyrone, Kerry, Galway, Monaghan, Derry.

Anyway I was impressed by the application of our lads last night. Muldoon in MF was great, McGuigan didn't play the workhorse WHF and stayed on the 45 as an orthodox HF and did well. Our defence was very solid all round with Barry again impressing at CHB and Sean Leo at WHB very good also. Skinner just had one of those games where everything he kicked went over and I was impressed with his general workrate as well hopefully he can keep this form up.

I have to take back my comments of last week about Lynn and Mullan, they stepped up last night and I was wrong to say they couldn't cut it at this level as they put in huge effort and both played well. I don't think both will be there come championship but if they keep playing as they did yesterday it will be hard to drop them.

Dublin were awful last night and even lynchbhoy said they had 5 of their starting 6 forwards from last year on at a time and they still couldn't muster a decent challenge at all. Again it was noticeable in the players they brought on that they were big men and worked hard in the gym but as usual this is useless unless you have the skills to play football as well. A mystery really why Dublin can't find these players as I'm sure they exist but the current crop just don't seem up to it.

Anyway relegation is not a worry anymore and hopefully we are starting to get the look of a championship team about us. A few lads still to come in and competition for places all over the park is the way a team should be and Derry definitely have that now, as well as strength in depth. Things are looking up although best not to get too carried away. Monaghan in the first round of the Championship will answer any questions over the team.

[INDIANA]

Indiana we would beat Cork comfortably and will give Galway a right game next week. For me the rankings at the minute would be Tyrone, Kerry, Galway, Monaghan, Derry.

My rankings are on championship form and no disrespect but Derry haven't been at the races in the championship for a while. On current form I would agree but Derry have chroncially underachieved in the championship. Anyway in the context of the game it was  only a moot point. I'd certainly have Cork ahead of Monaghan. I think Cork are the most under-rated team in the country but have the best crop of young talent anywhere in the country at the moment at u21 level.
Anyway it looks good for Derry this year- Cassidy knows what he's doing.

[Zulu]

Indiana we would beat Cork comfortably

This the same Cork that beat Kerry in the championship? Not sure why but Ulster lads don't seem to rate Cork very highly but yer wrong, Cork, as indiana points out have been consistently strong at U21 level for the last 5-6 years and have plenty of experienced quality players to backbone the team.

[screenexile]

That's fair enough Indiana and I do take your point that we are far from what you would call a 'Championship Team'.

The other thing is I would be of the opposite opinion of Cork in that I think they are massively over rated and the only reason they have managed to get far is because of the lack of any other competition in Munster and favourable draws this past few years. Last year they beat Kerry on an off day and only really beat Kildare then. The year before they beat Louth and a poor enough Meath team to get to an AIF. They may have some players coming through but I think they would struggle against an Armagh/Dublin/Mayo team if they had to play them this year. Maybe in a few years time when the last batch of U21s have matured they might threaten to win the big one but I'm not so sure at the minute.