Gary Neville
https://youtu.be/ZQdWSsbTUVo
https://www.ft.com/content/4cbef20a-7599-4580-82aa-2af383bd0f5a
Many of Europe's wealthiest football clubs have agreed to join a breakaway "Super League" competition that would mark the biggest transformation of the game in decades. Up to 12 clubs have signed up to a plan, backed by $6bn in debt financing from JPMorgan, to launch a new tournament that would supersede the Champions League, currently the continent's top annual club competition. According to people with knowledge of the discussions, those ready to join the breakaway contest include Spain's Real Madrid and FC Barcelona; England's Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea; and Italy's Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan. These clubs either declined or did not respond to a request for comment.
The new league, according to documents seen by the Financial Times, would involve 20 clubs with 15 being "permanent members", meaning they could not be relegated and would not need to qualify through strong performances in national league competitions. The founder members would be granted between €100m-€350m each and would continue to play in their national competitions, such as England's Premier League and Spain's La Liga. With expected revenues of €4bn for the competition through media and sponsorship sales, clubs would receive a fixed payment of €264m a year. JPMorgan declined to comment. The clubs not yet signed up include France's Paris Saint-Germain and Germany's Bayern Munich, among the richest in Europe, according to people close to the discussions. A declaration about the Super League is designed to head off an alternative plan for a radical transformation of the Champions League, which is run by Uefa, European football'sgoverning body.
As I said on the PL thread whilst I completely agree with what he is saying its hard to take it seriously being said from behind the mic of an organisation that has funded and benefited from a break away league for almost 30 years. Particularly as it was the same break away league that contributed to his fame, fortune and his current work.
So this is basically an elite champions league? the teams would still play in their own national leagues.
Quote from: clarshack on April 18, 2021, 08:23:43 PM
So this is basically an elite champions league? the teams would still play in their own national leagues.
I think that was the plan but the national associations and the Premier League have koboshed that so it might now be a straight league instead of a domestic league
Arsenal finished 8th in the Premier league last season and are currently 9th why would they be involved in a super league?
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:07:09 PM
As I said on the PL thread whilst I completely agree with what he is saying its hard to take it seriously being said from behind the mic of an organisation that has funded and benefited from a break away league for almost 30 years. Particularly as it was the same break away league that contributed to his fame, fortune and his current work.
this breakaway league is different though as its a closed shop. Invite only and no threat of relegation. The original Premier league was basically just a continuation of the old football league top division. Teams like Swindon, Barnsley, Oldham etc were all in Premier league in early days.
The money men have already ripped the arsehole out of the Champions League. Dozens of meaningless games among the same teams. It doesn't get remotely interesting until the QFs. And maybe not even then.
Now this shite. The money men are doing a good job at ruining football.
15 teams who can't get relegated
It's a closed shop.
Imagine a GAA where Galway, Mayo, Meath, Tyrone and Cork were guaranteed quarter finals
https://www.ft.com/content/4cbef20a-7599-4580-82aa-2af383bd0f5a
The competition would resemble the structure of "closed" North American sports leagues, where franchise owners enjoy reliable profits and with the valuation of teams steadily rising over time.
So the only issue is the lack of promotion and relegation? I'm abhorred by the idea of a super league but that issue is far from the most important one as far as I'm concerned. I mean you could easily extend the league to 24 teams have no equivalent to the current European competitions and then introduce some form of relegation. The super league would still not be good for football
For me the important thing is what happens with free to air football. If that stays pretty much the same like it is in the champions league then I don't have a problem with this.
I wouldn't be in favour at all, but it's a bit of an irony that Sky pundits are leading the criticism. Buying success in soccer is already an established principle.
The Champions League is usually won by one of the richest clubs but it's never set in stone. In recent years , Dortmund, Atletico, Monaco , Ajax and others -none of them in the breakaway list- have reached the final stages. The new proposal would end the possibility of this.
4 of that 6 mightn't even finish in the top 6 this season.
What if say, Arsenal, got relegated to the championship?
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 18, 2021, 09:04:58 PM
For me the important thing is what happens with free to air football. If that stays pretty much the same like it is in the champions league then I don't have a problem with this.
The Champions League would be a half arsed competition with the big teams no longer in it.
Though maybe more traditional Clubs like Ajax, Porto. would benefit in the Champions League, without the Sugar Daddy clubs involved.
Between this and the World Cup in Qatar, losing its respect.
UEFA thanked French and German clubs for refusing to take part.
Most of the top English clubs are owned by American plutocrats.
This nonsense has been floating around for 30 years. It was dusted off ahead of tomorrows rejigging of the CL. It is a negotiating ploy and nothing else
Quote from: David McKeown on April 18, 2021, 08:07:09 PM
As I said on the PL thread whilst I completely agree with what he is saying its hard to take it seriously being said from behind the mic of an organisation that has funded and benefited from a break away league for almost 30 years. Particularly as it was the same break away league that contributed to his fame, fortune and his current work.
It was a breakaway league with the full consent of the EFA who still had an element of control. It was in reality just a rebrand of an existing league
This is (or not as its nonsense) 15 teams leaving the FIFA world permanently to play on their own. But as the football authorities are gently reminding them that has consequences with them having no relationship with the rest of football.
Quote from: clarshack on April 18, 2021, 08:23:43 PM
So this is basically an elite champions league? the teams would still play in their own national leagues.
The Associations in question have said that of they break away they break away and won't be playing domestically
JP Morgan behind it. Just like FSG, the Glazers and the Saudi journalist-murderers trying muscle in on the EPL to launder dirty money, they should be rejected out of hand. Shame on the owners of the 6 clubs who signed the letter, bargaining chip or not.
Quote from: StPatsAbu on April 18, 2021, 10:38:13 PM
JP Morgan behind it. Just like FSG, the Glazers and the Saudi journalist-murderers trying muscle in on the EPL to launder dirty money, they should be rejected out of hand. Shame on the owners of the 6 clubs who signed the letter, bargaining chip or not.
Its the same 6 clubs (with City replacing Spurs) that have been dusting this plan off since the 90's. Shame has been and gone.
Stillborn horseshit.
Wouldn't you love to see all their bluffs being called, being expelled from their National leagues and playing only in their Super league, it would be some humiliation.
Club statements all out now. That escalated quickly or should I say this European league was signed/sealed ages ago and not made public.
The same support that is against it will be out supporting their teams in it.
More chances for Liverpool supporters to stone a team bus
Zero integrity in these clubs.
Spirit of shankly my arse
Founding Clubs? Do any of them know their history?
15 clubs sign up, 6 Premier League clubs and delmonte focuses on Liverpool ;D
Truth be told if Everton were big enough to be invited they would have jumped ship too..
Btw The Spirit of Shankly group have issued a statement saying they are completely against this.
I hope the big 5 + Arsenal get kicked out of the Premier league next year. Its the sort of drastic action needed to nip this in the bud.
Really really fear klopp will walk in the summer now :-[
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 07:30:22 AM
I hope the big 5 + Arsenal get kicked out of the Premier league next year. Its the sort of drastic action needed to nip this in the bud.
Really really fear klopp will walk in the summer now :-[
You would wonder how much the likes of Klopp and Ole and the rest knew about this?
Does Top 4 even matter now? Will these clubs even be allowed into the Champions League next season.
I've yet to hear any fan say they actually want this, it's a complete shit show.
it'll start as a European super league, closed shop after a few years the idea will be floated about bringing a team to China or the likes and that'll be the start of it, one of the big clubs franchise will be sold to the highest bidder, same as the hype for bringing an NFL team to London, can see it coming a mile off thats what these money men want.
Complete and total boycott is the only way. But I'm sure it'll attract enough attention in Asia and Africa to offset a few english and Irish fans. What has the reaction been from fans in Europe?
Given the backlash already I honestly don't see this going ahead. I genuinely would have zero interest in watching a european super league.
Klopp will be getting some grilling tomorrow after the game no matter the result. Be interesting to hear his views after what he said in 2019
Quote from: gawa316 on April 19, 2021, 08:01:38 AM
Klopp will be getting some grilling tomorrow after the game no matter the result. Be interesting to hear his views after what he said in 2019
I'm sure his views will be no different. Whether he expresses them or not is his call. This isn't his doing. It's not on the managers of these clubs. Or the fans. There is no chance that any manager was sitting around their laptops for these zoom calls. It's all on the owners.
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:14:45 AM
Quote from: gawa316 on April 19, 2021, 08:01:38 AM
Klopp will be getting some grilling tomorrow after the game no matter the result. Be interesting to hear his views after what he said in 2019
I'm sure his views will be no different. Whether he expresses them or not is his call. This isn't his doing. It's not on the managers of these clubs. Or the fans. There is no chance that any manager was sitting around their laptops for these zoom calls. It's all on the owners.
Exactly. When Joel Glazer is vice chairman it tells you all you need to know about the motives for this shit show.
So this is to replace the CL then.
Biggest issue is obviously these 12 teams (+3) guaranteed entry every year.
Everything else will remain the same.
SKY/BT will be banging the drum loudly about how its hurting the other clubs/supporters/integrity etc when in reality they dont give a flying f**k.
Sky started all of this in the early 90's
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2021, 08:21:33 AM
So this is to replace the CL then.
Biggest issue is obviously these 12 teams (+3) guaranteed entry every year.
Everything else will remain the same.
SKY/BT will be banging the drum loudly about how its hurting the other clubs/supporters/integrity etc when in reality they dont give a flying f**k.
Sky started all of this in the early 90's
And that is their motivation for the whole thing - at least from the perspective of the English 6. These owners have build their business models on being in Champions League every season. They have seen what has happened with Arsenal. They were in it every year. Now they are out (although they could qualify via Europa this season) and don't look like getting back in the top 4 any time soon. They see the likes of Everton and Villa with super wealthy owners now and are scared shitless than the 4 places will be diced up even thinner. FFP was supposed to protect them (despite what it said it's actual aims were) and has indeed slowed down these aspiring clubs. But it won't hold them back forever. Clubs rise and fall. That's how it should be.
These owners want to ensure that they can never fall again.
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Quote from: gawa316 on April 19, 2021, 08:01:38 AM
Klopp will be getting some grilling tomorrow after the game no matter the result. Be interesting to hear his views after what he said in 2019
He'll be German manager by that time so he won't give a f**k
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
As Nicky asked the ex chairman of Man City today on the radio, if City are playing Real Madrid in the final of this cup will you watch it or Master chef on the other channel. Of course, the chairman lied and said he'd be watching master chef.
It'll be hyped up to f**k and everyone will tune in, its just the game evolving and this was always going to happen at some level.
Going to be fascinating to see what happens next.
Not sure I'd be dismissing this as just a negotiating tactic, as we're a very long way through the negotiations and UEFA have already made concessions.
This idea/threat has been put to UEFA many months ago as a negotiating tactic. This has resulted in UEFA changing the format of the Champions League (expected to be formally announced today), where there are 2 backdoor slots for big clubs. So Liverpool could finish 5th in the league and get a backdoor slot (Arsenal, Spurs and maybe Juve could all be looking for such slots though).
It's going to need Premier League approval to get off the ground. As Gary Neville said this morning, how can the other clubs approve this, when by doing so you are guaranteeing the Big 6 an extra £100m a year (maybe £300m a year) so that would surely mean they would lock in those top six positions for ever more?
Is the next negotiating tactic that if the Premier League doesn't approve it, the big 6 will threaten to join the Super League full time rather than just midweek?
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 08:54:05 AM
Going to be fascinating to see what happens next.
Not sure I'd be dismissing this as just a negotiating tactic, as we're a very long way through the negotiations and UEFA have already made concessions.
This idea/threat has been put to UEFA many months ago as a negotiating tactic. This has resulted in UEFA changing the format of the Champions League (expected to be formally announced today), where there are 2 backdoor slots for big clubs. So Liverpool could finish 5th in the league and get a backdoor slot (Arsenal, Spurs and maybe Juve could all be looking for such slots though).
It's going to need Premier League approval to get off the ground. As Gary Neville said this morning, how can the other clubs approve this, when by doing so you are guaranteeing the Big 6 an extra £100m a year (maybe £300m a year) so that would surely mean they would lock in those top six positions for ever more?
Is the next negotiating tactic that if the Premier League doesn't approve it, the big 6 will threaten to join the Super League full time rather than just midweek?
The various FA's, UEFA and FIFA could scupper this in one fair swoop.
Play in this league and you're banned from all other sanctioned football leagues and tournaments, World cups and all.
The players would have to think long and hard about that one.
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
Football needed change but not in this direction.
It's no surprise really that the owners are chasing the $$$. The yank owners are all capitalist hedge fund and investment bankers. The Spanish clubs are in debt up to their earlobes and only know one way - spend and get bailed out, this is the latest bail out for them. Italian clubs are been left behind and rely on owner investment to keep them afloat. They can't compete with oil money, so they all onboard for this. Oil money - they see clubs as commodities and looking a return on their investment.
The change that was needed was inward - less games, return to traditions, less spending, less influence of agents, less influence of PPV TV, less corruption at UEFA/FIFA level. This will increase all of this. Fans have long since been down the food chain. The game in the pandemic without fans is a diluted version of its former self.
You do need to look past the very hyped Sky agenda on this and the risk to their power base in the premier league. They will be very anti this. But I think the reasoning of Neville yesterday was instinctive and hit the Mark.
All fan groups in England seem against it. For United it's going to take more than scarves to impose their will on this for change. Liverpool fans in the past have acted and got some luck on changing owners decisions but this one seems to have moved on basis of ignoring them. City, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea - have never seen them having to confront owners in a meaningful way.
No idea how this is been taken by fans in the continent. That would be interesting as their support base can be very volatile and can split into different factions.
It will be a horrible move to go this way. And it would only be the start. You'd see more teams invited to join in a second tier and domestic leagues left behind altogether once it up and running.
I'm sure Klopp be asked on this tonight and it could set the tone for other managers. I expect it'll be "I manage and play football....owners make those decisions....I only had thoughts on tonight's game" but he does seem to be the type to give his opinion when asked. Players the same? Will they break ranks and voice an opinion?
Plenty of legs in this yet.
https://www.ft.com/content/4cbef20a-7599-4580-82aa-2af383bd0f5a
leading clubs wanted to be given greater assurances over a joint venture that would control all media and sponsorship rights for European club competitions.
The declaration about the Super League was designed to head off an alternative plan for a radical transformation of the Champions League, which is run by Uefa.
Uefa said it was united with Europe's top leagues, national governing bodies and Fifa in "efforts to stop this cynical project, a project that is founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever".
It added that it would consider "all measures available to us, at all levels, both judicial and sporting in order to prevent this happening".
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
16 of the premier league's 22 founding members have been relegated since its foundation. 49 different clubs have played in it. It has it's flaws, but at least the results on the pitch matter.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 19, 2021, 09:06:37 AM
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 08:54:05 AM
Going to be fascinating to see what happens next.
Not sure I'd be dismissing this as just a negotiating tactic, as we're a very long way through the negotiations and UEFA have already made concessions.
This idea/threat has been put to UEFA many months ago as a negotiating tactic. This has resulted in UEFA changing the format of the Champions League (expected to be formally announced today), where there are 2 backdoor slots for big clubs. So Liverpool could finish 5th in the league and get a backdoor slot (Arsenal, Spurs and maybe Juve could all be looking for such slots though).
It's going to need Premier League approval to get off the ground. As Gary Neville said this morning, how can the other clubs approve this, when by doing so you are guaranteeing the Big 6 an extra £100m a year (maybe £300m a year) so that would surely mean they would lock in those top six positions for ever more?
Is the next negotiating tactic that if the Premier League doesn't approve it, the big 6 will threaten to join the Super League full time rather than just midweek?
The various FA's, UEFA and FIFA could scupper this in one fair swoop.
Play in this league and you're banned from all other sanctioned football leagues and tournaments, World cups and all.
The players would have to think long and hard about that one.
Absolutely.
Although the various FA's, UEFA and FIFA are all separate bodies, with varying levels of competency.
It will come to the Breakaway Clubs versus UEFA, in attempting to get the FAs and FIFA onside. If the clubs do manage to persuade their national leagues to accept it, then I think they'd get FIFA onside too, as FIFA will want the best players playing international football.
But if it did come to an unreconcilable position and the FAs/FIFA/UEFA all held firm and the breakaways decided to form their own European Super League and they got their multi billion TV deals all set up, I don't think players missing out on international football would scupper it.
Would many players take a 50% paycut to join West Ham, Southampton, etc. because it would allow them play international football?
(If such a thing did get off the ground, I think FIFA would buckle soon enough anyway).
(
I'm just playing devil's advocate for the sake of conversation, it's also impossible to imagine the club owners getting away with this!)
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
The EPL is an intermediate stage between the Football League and this proposal.
in the 30 years prior to the EPL, 9 clubs won
Ipswich
Forest
Liverpool
Leeds
Derby
Man Utd
Everton
Villa
Several outsiders
In the EPL era, 7 clubs have won
Blackburn
Chelsea
Liverpool
Man Utd
Chelsea
Man City
Leicester
Only 1 non moneybags
The big moneybags teams win more EPL titles than they did in the Football League .
This latest proposal is about turning football into a reliable cashflow.
I'm not really sure how FIFA/UEFA could interpret employment law in such a way that they can prevent players changing "code" in either direction.
I'd then expect it would be up to each individual FA to honour a gentleman's agreement not to select the "renegades". Good luck with that one.
—-/
This is going to happen folks.
But the better news is that there's at least a 50:50 chance it will fall on its face within a few years.
The risks the clubs are taking:
1. That people will always tune into say Man Utd v Madrid, regardless of circumstance. Footballers are innately horrible bastards. So when they've nothing to play for, they don't try. And a competition with only one prize, and no relegation, would have dead rubbers once a quarter the season is gone, and half the games would be dead rubbers from the halfway point. That's not entertainment, and champions league viewing figures show that people don't tune into European dead rubbers.
2. That the players won't just run their own coup on this one, and leave finances exactly as they are... or maybe worse. The new competition won't have salary caps, and won't have honour among clubs. Some like Mbappe could horse trade his way to a million a week. Which is okay. The problems will really happen when the Mbappe lites are claiming half a million a week to watch dead rubber games from the bench.
3. The leagues in Spain, England and Italy might continue to prosper without those 12 clubs. Now don't get me wrong they wouldn't have the same pulling power. But sponsorship and tv rights needs bidding wars to become lucrative. If the major car manufacturers are happy to be associated with national competitions, and then major investment banks the same, then there may not quite be the level of contributions for the new competition, as predicted.
The ESL offers no improvement on anything structural, that is the most obvious issue, it is a clear pull up the ladder behind you money grab. It's such a retrograde step for football in general, I'd love to see a confrontation
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:49:04 AM
I'm not really sure how FIFA/UEFA could interpret employment law in such a way that they can prevent players changing "code" in either direction.
I'd then expect it would be up to each individual FA to honour a gentleman's agreement not to select the "renegades". Good luck with that one.
—-/
This is going to happen folks.
But the better news is that there's at least a 50:50 chance it will fall on its face within a few years.
The risks the clubs are taking:
1. That people will always tune into say Man Utd v Madrid, regardless of circumstance. Footballers are innately horrible bastards. So when they've nothing to play for, they don't try. And a competition with only one prize, and no relegation, would have dead rubbers once a quarter the season is gone, and half the games would be dead rubbers from the halfway point. That's not entertainment, and champions league viewing figures show that people don't tune into European dead rubbers.
2. That the players won't just run their own coup on this one, and leave finances exactly as they are... or maybe worse. The new competition won't have salary caps, and won't have honour among clubs. Some like Mbappe could horse trade his way to a million a week. Which is okay. The problems will really happen when the Mbappe lites are claiming half a million a week to watch dead rubber games from the bench.
3. The leagues in Spain, England and Italy might continue to prosper without those 12 clubs. Now don't get me wrong they wouldn't have the same pulling power. But sponsorship and tv rights needs bidding wars to become lucrative. If the major car manufacturers are happy to be associated with national competitions, and then major investment banks the same, then there may not quite be the level of contributions for the new competition, as predicted.
This isn't even in question, in my option.
In England, games outside the Premier League get 130% of the combined attendances of the Premier League its self. Albeit spread across many many more games, and for much cheaper ticket prices. Nobody in Africa/Asia is interested in clubs outside the top few - but the people who actually go to the games are very much interested. I think these clubs are overplaying their hand. Of course they may realise this and it may all be about anchoring for bargaining power.
Interesting points wobbler
Quote1. That people will always tune into say Man Utd v Madrid, regardless of circumstance. Footballers are innately horrible bastards. So when they've nothing to play for, they don't try. And a competition with only one prize, and no relegation, would have dead rubbers once a quarter the season is gone, and half the games would be dead rubbers from the halfway point. That's not entertainment, and champions league viewing figures show that people don't tune into European dead rubbers.
Agreed. The premier league always has dead rubbers from mid table teams towards the end of the season, and there's never really an issue with them as teams do seem to want to finish say 9th instead of 12th, etc. It would presumably be more pronounced under this system. They'll probably build something into it that allows for some minor reason why it's better to finish higher. NFL is never worried about dead rubbers. Once the stadiums are full and TV deals done, it may not matter hugely.
Quote2. That the players won't just run their own coup on this one, and leave finances exactly as they are... or maybe worse. The new competition won't have salary caps, and won't have honour among clubs. Some like Mbappe could horse trade his way to a million a week. Which is okay. The problems will really happen when the Mbappe lites are claiming half a million a week to watch dead rubber games from the bench.
I think the 12 clubs are proposing to agree to an agreed spend per year.
Quote3. The leagues in Spain, England and Italy might continue to prosper without those 12 clubs. Now don't get me wrong they wouldn't have the same pulling power. But sponsorship and tv rights needs bidding wars to become lucrative. If the major car manufacturers are happy to be associated with national competitions, and then major investment banks the same, then there may not quite be the level of contributions for the new competition, as predicted.
Agreed.
There was a time I'd rarely miss a CL game or highlights. Nowadays I rarely even watch the semis/final. There are too many teams (who aren't even their league winners), too many meaningless games. It's boring watching the same teams playing over and over again.
But fans are fickle. They will buy tickets to any old shite. Blind loyalty, while money is sucked from their wallets.
Yes the PL is full of money men but it's still the results that matter.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
There was a time I'd rarely miss a CL game or highlights. Nowadays I rarely even watch the semis/final. There are too many teams (who aren't even their league winners), too many meaningless games. It's boring watching the same teams playing over and over again.
But fans are fickle. They will buy tickets to any old shite. Blind loyalty, while money is sucked from their wallets.
Yes the PL is full of money men but it's still the results that matter.
Been going that way myself, the lack of fans also highlights how much atmosphere matters and actually masks the muck that's on offer a lot of the time.
The dead rubber point is a key one for me. CL pool round 6 usually has at least half the pools with dead rubbers. As a Liverpool fan the only thing keeping me interested at the minute is trying to get the Top 4 spot. If that doesnt matter then I am pretty sure I would find something else to do tonight. I would guess they will address this by US type Top 4 in each group into "post season" etc.
There are successful closed leagues such as US sports and AFL in Australia but based on very different principles. The AFL obviously is the national sport and I think the big clubs have effective B Teams in local regional leagues that seems to work quite well. The NFL is an absolute money rules everything concept (anyone who has seen Ballers on Sky with Dwayne Johnson will appreciate). They do not give one fcuk about anything other than money. How else can you just move a team thousands of miles to a different city?
One thing the single leagues usually have in common is a draft. This helps to keep it competitive and generally does not allow one team to completely dominate for long periods like Bayern/Barca/Utd/Liverpool/RM/Juve have in the past. That is something that will be interesting if this ever came about, all these clubs used to winning something eevry couple of years might have to get used to No Trophies being the norm.
All in all I do not have a problem replacing the CL. I think Uefa have brought this on themselves with their constant changes (all designed to line their own pockets) but the concept of a closed shop is totally wrong.
Are we all in agreement it's hilarious that Spurs are included in this Super League?
Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2021, 10:17:29 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
There was a time I'd rarely miss a CL game or highlights. Nowadays I rarely even watch the semis/final. There are too many teams (who aren't even their league winners), too many meaningless games. It's boring watching the same teams playing over and over again.
But fans are fickle. They will buy tickets to any old shite. Blind loyalty, while money is sucked from their wallets.
Yes the PL is full of money men but it's still the results that matter.
Been going that way myself, the lack of fans also highlights how much atmosphere matters and actually masks the muck that's on offer a lot of the time.
Are you two related? ;)
Quote from: laoislad on April 19, 2021, 10:42:04 AM
Are we all in agreement it's hilarious that Spurs are included in this Super League?
I'm rolling over backwards laughing at how the 9th richest club in the world managed to get a place in a financially elite football competition.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/ken-early-super-league-s-naked-power-grab-aims-for-permanent-aristocracy-1.4540872
Ken Early: Super League's naked power-grab aims for permanent aristocracy
Breakaway attempt is a gamble on the nature of fandom across the world
Today was meant to be a good day down at Uefa HQ. At 1.30 this afternoon they were due to unveil the big Champions League revamp.
The Swiss System, or as Uefa's press release put it: "Every. Game. Counts." Four extra games for everybody, four extra places in the competition, more money all round – what's not to like?
Well, lots of things actually, but what are you going to do – it's not like there's some other Champions League you can go and watch instead.
As it turned out, by mid-afternoon on Sunday, Uefa found itself issuing the most dramatic call to arms in the organisation's history.
A joint statement from the European governing body along with the football associations and leagues in each of England, Spain and Italy read: "[We] have learned that a few English, Spanish and Italian clubs may be planning to announce their creation of a closed, so-called Super League. If this were to happen, we wish to reiterate that we . . . will remain united in our efforts to stop this cynical project, a project that is founded on the self-interest of a few clubs at a time when society needs solidarity more than ever.
"We will consider all measures available to us . . ... to prevent this happening . . . We call on all lovers of football, supporters and politicians, to join us in fighting against such a project if it were to be announced. This persistent self-interest of a few has been going on for too long. Enough is enough."
"This persistent self-interest of a few" has indeed been going on a long time.
It has been the force driving the reorganisation of European football since the 1980s, and Uefa are well-placed to know because they've been negotiating with it at every turn. The Champions League reforms to be announced today were just the latest stage in that decades-long process, the latest concession in a long Cold War in which the balance of power has shifted gradually but steadily in favour of the biggest clubs.
News of the planned breakaway suggests those clubs finally feel as though they hold the whip hand.
Uefa's statement, with its reference to "a time when society needs solidarity more than ever" made it sound as though they were shocked and outraged that the clubs could make a break for it now, in the tragic context of the pandemic.
Their indignation was shared by pundit Gary Neville, who told Sky Sports "to bring forward proposals in the midst of Covid and the economic crisis for all clubs is an absolute scandal".
Such moral grandstanding misses the point that the pandemic is literally the crisis that has prompted the would-be breakaway clubs to make their move.
Last November, the European Club Association's annual report predicted that Covid would inflict €5 billion of losses on European football clubs by the end of the 2021 season.
Meanwhile the TV rights market has been curdling for some time. The Premier League lost a Chinese TV contract worth nearly half a billion dollars, the French league's new TV deal collapsed in December, while the German and Italian TV rights auctions did not meet expectations.
The big clubs in the Premier League have long felt as though they should be getting a bigger share of the pie; the League has been able to contain this anger by making sure the pie keeps growing. Now that trend has reversed the anger is becoming explosive.
Incremental measures
The logic of European football at the top end has long suggested the eventual establishment of some kind of superleague. The essential problem is that the game in Europe is an uncontrolled arms race between clubs who aren't all playing by the same commercial rules.
Uefa's effort at an arms-limitation treaty in the form of Financial Fair Play failed miserably. We have a Champions League semi-final line-up where three of the four clubs are owned by petro-billionaires or -trillionaires.
The big clubs' need for more and more money to fund spiralling wage and transfer costs is an itch that can never be scratched by the sort of incremental measures Uefa planned to announce today.
An NFL-style organisation incorporating spending restrictions such as salary caps is the only way to escape the arms race dynamic that has seen the likes of Barcelona – Europe's biggest club by turnover – plunge themselves into a billion euro of debt.
The major obstacle to the establishment of this American-style owners' paradise has always been: can't get there from here.
The European football structure has grown up organically over 150 years, rather than being designed rationally according to which regional conurbation could best support a profitable franchise at any given time. Nobody has yet come up with a way by which the members of this Euro-NFL could be selected. Until now.
With previous successful plans to enrich the biggest clubs, such as the Premier League or the Champions League, it was always clear how the new formations would relate to the existing structure.
The Champions League created enormous new financial rewards for participating clubs, but if you wanted to collect them you had to qualify first. So while in practice the Champions League has entrenched elitism and inequality, in principle it remains a competition your team might get to play in.
The proposed breakaway league, with its permanent cast of 15 or 16 founder members, is different. It's a naked power-grab by a self-appointed group of gangster clubs who want to set themselves up as a permanent aristocracy.
A gamble
They must have anticipated that everyone else was going to hate it , since their proposal benefits nobody but themselves. The interesting question is: how do they expect to get away with it?
The breakaway is a gamble on the nature of fandom. The clubs would be betting that most existing fans would not be repulsed by the move, that the casual fans would tune in to see the top players, and that the angry objectors would be a noisy minority.
They might find they're grappling with larger forces than they'd reckoned with.
In an impassioned tirade on Sky Sports, Neville's key accusation was that the club owners had "no loyalty to this country or these leagues". Nigel Farage's tweet also hit on the theme of foreign subversion: "A breakaway European Union of Football backed by globalist banks and the so-called "Big Six" must fail."
With populist nationalism in the ascendant, the clubs are standing up for the rights of the international billionaire class to maximise profits. In an age of division and rancour, hating this idea might be the one thing all the peoples of Europe can agree on.
This is hardly all shocking carry-on from the good guys at Mes Que Un Club or Real who rig the TV money in their own country. Or from Juve and all their scandals. Or from the USA owners or the nation-state backed club in the EPL.
They are all the worst shower going in fairness. They will end up playing in Qatar or China or they will end up being referred to as the franchise and uprooted to God knows where.
Sadly, the international fan bases will cover any loss of the locals who have been with the likes of City in the lower leagues. Time for a big reboot and get rid of UEFA and FIFA while we are at it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/19/european-super-league-announcement-statement-reaction-live-latest/
Three Premier League clubs – Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur – have confirmed to The Daily Telegraph that they have resigned from the European Club Association.
The ECA is the body that represents all the clubs in Uefa and is the only one officially recognised by European football's governing organisation. Quitting the ECA is an aggressive step and significant move towards the formation of the proposed European Super League.
The ECA held an emergency meeting on Sunday evening about the biggest threat football has faced but the clubs did not attend and have now all formally resigned.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 07:49:37 AM
Complete and total boycott is the only way. But I'm sure it'll attract enough attention in Asia and Africa to offset a few english and Irish fans. What has the reaction been from fans in Europe?
The Irish fans are exactly who are being targeted. Man U fans who couldn't find Manchester on a map.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/19/sickened-liverpool-backing-shameless-breakaway-fans-will-not/
I am sickened by Liverpool backing shameless breakaway - fans will not tolerate it
Fans will simply not tolerate a plan that places the whole principle of our club system in jeopardy
JAMIE CARRAGHER
19 April 2021 • 6:29am
Funny how the voices on the Kop matter only when it is most convenient.
The more I read about the European super league proposals, the more it seems Liverpool's owners must like empty stadiums because all they have done is raise the likelihood of another mass walkout.
Liverpool's game with Leeds on Monday night could not be better timed to expose the insanity of the closed-shop idea.
It is a game with potentially massive ramifications for Champions League qualification, full of jeopardy, and hence drama.
Millions will tune in for that reason, emotions running high whatever the result. The same anxious excitement will accompany all of Liverpool's remaining seven games, which is why the broadcasters pay millions for them.
That is the beauty of league football – where every action and point matters. That is why, as a former Liverpool player, it sickens me that my club's reputation is being damaged by the arrogance of an ownership group that wants to remove such peril, creating a culture where we no longer need to fight to earn our success. That is the antithesis of everything I understand football – especially in my city – to stand for.
To be tainted by association with the European super league is bad enough, but Liverpool's apparent leading role in threatening football's competitive ideals – the very ideals which allowed the club to emerge from England's second division to become six-time European champions – is a betrayal of a heritage they are seeking to cash in on.
Manchester United's shameless capitalism does not surprise me. United fans will agree that from day one, the Glazers have never hidden the fact they bought the club for the cash. They summed up their contempt for United fans when introducing a system forcing season-ticket holders to pay additional fees for cup matches.
• European Super League explained: teams, format, winners and losers
But John W Henry is more cunning, courting fans' groups in his early years and presenting himself as keen to engage, yet consistently failing to grasp the culture of the Kop. I was among the paying season-ticket holders who walked out in disgust when Liverpool tried to charge £77 for match tickets in 2016, and only last summer the club were forced to backtrack on their attempts to claim taxpayer funds for furloughed staff.
Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Spurs will also get rightly hammered for this. Those four always seem happy hiding behind Liverpool and United when the flak is flying.
Whenever these radical schemes emerge, it is an opportunity for everyone to pile in, accusing the so-called "elite" of self-interest. True as that is, the moralistic intervention of Uefa, the Football Association, national leagues and whatever government minister is after a few votes is laughable.
"It's all about money. It's all about greed," they say. Wow. These organisations would jump on any passing gravy train if they thought it would make them richer.
Football, at every level of the professional game, is about money. The notion of English football being a meritocracy at the summit has been a myth since the Premier League formed, with only Blackburn Rovers (bankrolled by Jack Walker) and Leicester City shocking the world. Only seven clubs have won the Premier League in 29 years.
The actions of Liverpool and United, especially, are grounded on a grievance that for too long they have been denied the chance to make more of what they could earn, blocked from using their global popularity to maximise all revenue opportunities.
But that can never justify efforts to destabilise the system without the backing of those they most need – the fans.
Football executives always make the mistake of believing they are the most influential force in football. They swiftly realise that without the supporters, they are weak and powerless.
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2021, 11:16:26 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/19/european-super-league-announcement-statement-reaction-live-latest/
Three Premier League clubs – Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur – have confirmed to The Daily Telegraph that they have resigned from the European Club Association.
The ECA is the body that represents all the clubs in Uefa and is the only one officially recognised by European football's governing organisation. Quitting the ECA is an aggressive step and significant move towards the formation of the proposed European Super League.
The ECA held an emergency meeting on Sunday evening about the biggest threat football has faced but the clubs did not attend and have now all formally resigned.
According to the BBC, Manchester United executive vice-chairman Ed Woodward and Manchester City chief executive Ferran Soriano have also stood down from their roles at Uefa.
Reaction from supporters groups of the "super" clubs:
Liverpool supporters' group Spirit of Shankly (SOS) said it was "appalled" by the decision of Fenway Sports Group, the club's US-based owner. In a social media post, SOS said: "FSG have ignored fans in their relentless and greedy pursuit of money. Football is ours, not theirs. Our football club is ours not theirs."
Chelsea Supporters' Trust called the move "unforgivable" and said its members and "football supporters across the world have experienced the ultimate betrayal".
The
Arsenal Supporters' Trust called the club's agreement to join "the death of Arsenal as a sporting institution", while
Manchester City's Official Supporters Club said the move showed "those involved have zero regard for the game's traditions", adding it was "determined to fight against this proposed Super League".
The
Manchester United Supporters' Trust had earlier said the proposals were "completely unacceptable" and the ESL "goes against everything football, and Manchester United, should stand for".
Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust said the ESL was a "concept driven by avarice and self-interest at the expense of the intrinsic values of the game we hold so dear".
Anybody else not really bothered by it all?
It's horrendous.
Speculation Mourinho booted due to not taking his players onto the training field in protest at it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 19, 2021, 12:35:41 PM
It's horrendous.
Speculation Mourinho booted due to not taking his players onto the training field in protest at it.
That's not true, few of the banter sites are putting it out there
Liverpool fan groups taking their kop flags down in protest.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Load of shite. People can't be moaning about this and yet putting up with the EPL or the Champs league. Neville going off on one yesterday was pure hypocrisy.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 01:10:14 PM
Liverpool fan groups taking their kop flags down in protest.
Groundball, where you can advocate trading meatsuits for £150,000,000 pay it £500,000 a week and still moralise to others
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 01:14:37 PM
Load of shite. People can't be moaning about this and yet putting up with the EPL or the Champs league. Neville going off on one yesterday was pure hypocrisy.
Not the same. There's nothing in the rules preventing any club from making the Premier league or Champions league. In theory any club can do it. There have been 49 teams in England's top flight since 1991. The open system of promotion and relegation is one of the attractive characteristics of football.
Apart from the corruption, sportswashing and greed, professional football isn't too bad! Add in the removal of any spontaneous emotion through the introduction of VAR, the constant diving and cheating and the totally soulless experience of watching football this season in front of empty seats and I often wonder why Irish fans get so worked up over English premier league teams. See it for what it is, a billionaires plaything where every fan is a 'customer' and everything is measured in monetary terms. When entire nations are using football as a way of projecting soft power and sportswashing you know there is something filthy.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Apart from the corruption, sportswashing and greed, professional football isn't too bad! Add in the removal of any spontaneous emotion through the introduction of VAR, the constant diving and cheating and the totally soulless experience of watching football this season in front of empty seats and I often wonder why Irish fans get so worked up over English premier league teams. See it for what it is, a billionaires plaything where every fan is a 'customer' and everything is measured in monetary terms. When entire nations are using football as a way of projecting soft power and sportswashing you know there is something filthy.
What sport do you follow?
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Apart from the corruption, sportswashing and greed, professional football isn't too bad! Add in the removal of any spontaneous emotion through the introduction of VAR, the constant diving and cheating and the totally soulless experience of watching football this season in front of empty seats and I often wonder why Irish fans get so worked up over English premier league teams. See it for what it is, a billionaires plaything where every fan is a 'customer' and everything is measured in monetary terms. When entire nations are using football as a way of projecting soft power and sportswashing you know there is something filthy.
What sport do you follow?
I would follow almost any sport, not sure where you're going with this.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
Ah but what about 1992? That's when football really started .....
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
In terms of competition it's different, in terms of rebranding a competition to make more money out of football as we saw in 1992, it's the same.
UEFA president Ceferin has just confirmed that all players in the new Super League will be banned from playing in the World Cup.
This is absolutely bonkers :o
Quote from: Taylor on April 19, 2021, 01:45:47 PM
UEFA president Ceferin has just confirmed that all players in the new Super League will be banned from playing in the World Cup.
This is absolutely bonkers :o
UEFA going all in very early. Still a few cards to come....
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
In terms of competition it's different, in terms of rebranding a competition to make more money out of football as we saw in 1992, it's the same.
So if it's the same will the new Euro league put 400 mil into the EFL I don't think so, for what it's worth the smaller clubs I think should get more bit to suggest it's the same is wrong.
This is gona be like when the PDC went away from the BDO in the darts
2 world cups. The wemen are gona love this
This is football heading down the road of American professional franchise sports. Clubs belonging to cities and fan bases? f**k that. That's so 20th century.
No relegation, nothing to play for except the main title.
Then, if your team is shit or support fades away, let's up and move the whole kit and kaboodle to another city.
Remember the Seattle SuperSonics? Now OKC Thunder. Baseball started in California because of a stalemate between the owners of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Robert Moses, longtime infrastructure emperor of NYC. LA said they'd build them a beautiful stadium. SF the same for the Giants, formerly of the Polo Grounds in Harlem. NYC loses two long standing baseball teams in the blink of an eye. May not happen with football, but the possibility is there, with clubs the business possessions of corporations, not entities with roots in a community.
Thing totally f**king stinks.
This is great:
https://www.grimsby-townfc.co.uk/news/2021/april/big-six-shirt-amnesty-launched/
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Nonsense. The EPL replaced the first division with the full agreement of the clubs and association.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Apart from the corruption, sportswashing and greed, professional football isn't too bad! Add in the removal of any spontaneous emotion through the introduction of VAR, the constant diving and cheating and the totally soulless experience of watching football this season in front of empty seats and I often wonder why Irish fans get so worked up over English premier league teams. See it for what it is, a billionaires plaything where every fan is a 'customer' and everything is measured in monetary terms. When entire nations are using football as a way of projecting soft power and sportswashing you know there is something filthy.
What sport do you follow?
I would follow almost any sport, not sure where you're going with this.
Soccer has many levels. If you object to the circus that is English top flight stuff pick a lower level, or heaven forbid a local club.
None of the above happens in Ireland
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:58:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
In terms of competition it's different, in terms of rebranding a competition to make more money out of football as we saw in 1992, it's the same.
So if it's the same will the new Euro league put 400 mil into the EFL I don't think so, for what it's worth the smaller clubs I think should get more bit to suggest it's the same is wrong.
It's not about money to smaller clubs
They're rebranding a new competition to make more money out of football, which is exactly what we saw in 1992.
Have i got this right then? The 12 (or 15) original clubs can't get relegated and 5 new clubs can get promoted / relegated each year - so Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea could finish in the bottom 3 of the new Super League but Ajax, for example, could finish 4th from bottom and get relegated? Sounds class. :-\
Quote from: Louther on April 19, 2021, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on April 19, 2021, 10:17:29 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 19, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
There was a time I'd rarely miss a CL game or highlights. Nowadays I rarely even watch the semis/final. There are too many teams (who aren't even their league winners), too many meaningless games. It's boring watching the same teams playing over and over again.
But fans are fickle. They will buy tickets to any old shite. Blind loyalty, while money is sucked from their wallets.
Yes the PL is full of money men but it's still the results that matter.
Been going that way myself, the lack of fans also highlights how much atmosphere matters and actually masks the muck that's on offer a lot of the time.
Are you two related? ;)
Aye, we're brothers ;D
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
This is football heading down the road of American professional franchise sports. Clubs belonging to cities and fan bases? f**k that. That's so 20th century.
No relegation, nothing to play for except the main title.
Then, if your team is shit or support fades away, let's up and move the whole kit and kaboodle to another city.
Remember the Seattle SuperSonics? Now OKC Thunder. Baseball started in California because of a stalemate between the owners of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Robert Moses, longtime infrastructure emperor of NYC. LA said they'd build them a beautiful stadium. SF the same for the Giants, formerly of the Polo Grounds in Harlem. NYC loses two long standing baseball teams in the blink of an eye. May not happen with football, but the possibility is there, with clubs the business possessions of corporations, not entities with roots in a community.
Thing totally f**king stinks.
Correct
Robert Kraft the owner of New England Patriots said he wouldn't invest in a European football club because they can get relegated and knocked out of a competition. If this new format goes ahead then you will see more billionaires getting involved and clubs purchased becoming a global franchise. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and needs to be stamped on now.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 02:11:54 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Nonsense. The EPL replaced the first division with the full agreement of the clubs and association.
And what.
There is still a rebranding of football going on here, which is what has happened before, from the first division and the old European cup format. You're probably one of the ones who claim Liverpool "only have 1 premier league".
The fake hysteria is rife here.
Quote from: seafoid on April 19, 2021, 11:42:51 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/19/sickened-liverpool-backing-shameless-breakaway-fans-will-not/
I am sickened by Liverpool backing shameless breakaway - fans will not tolerate it
Fans will simply not tolerate a plan that places the whole principle of our club system in jeopardy
JAMIE CARRAGHER
19 April 2021 • 6:29am
Funny how the voices on the Kop matter only when it is most convenient.
The more I read about the European super league proposals, the more it seems Liverpool's owners must like empty stadiums because all they have done is raise the likelihood of another mass walkout.
Liverpool's game with Leeds on Monday night could not be better timed to expose the insanity of the closed-shop idea.
It is a game with potentially massive ramifications for Champions League qualification, full of jeopardy, and hence drama.
Millions will tune in for that reason, emotions running high whatever the result. The same anxious excitement will accompany all of Liverpool's remaining seven games, which is why the broadcasters pay millions for them.
That is the beauty of league football – where every action and point matters. That is why, as a former Liverpool player, it sickens me that my club's reputation is being damaged by the arrogance of an ownership group that wants to remove such peril, creating a culture where we no longer need to fight to earn our success. That is the antithesis of everything I understand football – especially in my city – to stand for.
To be tainted by association with the European super league is bad enough, but Liverpool's apparent leading role in threatening football's competitive ideals – the very ideals which allowed the club to emerge from England's second division to become six-time European champions – is a betrayal of a heritage they are seeking to cash in on.
Manchester United's shameless capitalism does not surprise me. United fans will agree that from day one, the Glazers have never hidden the fact they bought the club for the cash. They summed up their contempt for United fans when introducing a system forcing season-ticket holders to pay additional fees for cup matches.
• European Super League explained: teams, format, winners and losers
But John W Henry is more cunning, courting fans' groups in his early years and presenting himself as keen to engage, yet consistently failing to grasp the culture of the Kop. I was among the paying season-ticket holders who walked out in disgust when Liverpool tried to charge £77 for match tickets in 2016, and only last summer the club were forced to backtrack on their attempts to claim taxpayer funds for furloughed staff.
Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea and Spurs will also get rightly hammered for this. Those four always seem happy hiding behind Liverpool and United when the flak is flying.
Whenever these radical schemes emerge, it is an opportunity for everyone to pile in, accusing the so-called "elite" of self-interest. True as that is, the moralistic intervention of Uefa, the Football Association, national leagues and whatever government minister is after a few votes is laughable.
"It's all about money. It's all about greed," they say. Wow. These organisations would jump on any passing gravy train if they thought it would make them richer.
Football, at every level of the professional game, is about money. The notion of English football being a meritocracy at the summit has been a myth since the Premier League formed, with only Blackburn Rovers (bankrolled by Jack Walker) and Leicester City shocking the world. Only seven clubs have won the Premier League in 29 years.
The actions of Liverpool and United, especially, are grounded on a grievance that for too long they have been denied the chance to make more of what they could earn, blocked from using their global popularity to maximise all revenue opportunities.
But that can never justify efforts to destabilise the system without the backing of those they most need – the fans.
Football executives always make the mistake of believing they are the most influential force in football. They swiftly realise that without the supporters, they are weak and powerless.
Fans won't stop this. Even if there's 99.9% against it, it's the elites who will stop it.
If this Super League started in the morning, stadiums would be full*
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 02:14:50 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:22:12 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 01:18:59 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 01:17:37 PM
Apart from the corruption, sportswashing and greed, professional football isn't too bad! Add in the removal of any spontaneous emotion through the introduction of VAR, the constant diving and cheating and the totally soulless experience of watching football this season in front of empty seats and I often wonder why Irish fans get so worked up over English premier league teams. See it for what it is, a billionaires plaything where every fan is a 'customer' and everything is measured in monetary terms. When entire nations are using football as a way of projecting soft power and sportswashing you know there is something filthy.
What sport do you follow?
I would follow almost any sport, not sure where you're going with this.
Soccer has many levels. If you object to the circus that is English top flight stuff pick a lower level, or heaven forbid a local club.
None of the above happens in Ireland
That is my very point and the road that professional soccer has been on for many years going back to when Sky money came into the game only reinforces that notion. Id much prefer to follow sport at a local level both GAA and soccer, it feels more authentic. Can still enjoy top level soccer but take it for what it is, just a product and a brand to be monetised.
The new Champions League structure was announced where there is space for elite clubs to play in it if they havent qualified.
So in essence making sure the rich clubs qualify for it every year :o
Pot calling the kettle black
The owners wont care what the fans think - they'll just move their franchise to a place where the fans want it or the games will just tour around the world - Man Utd v Barcelona in Tokyo, Juve v Real Madrid in New York, Arsenal v Spurs in Omagh.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 02:26:45 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 19, 2021, 02:00:43 PM
This is football heading down the road of American professional franchise sports. Clubs belonging to cities and fan bases? f**k that. That's so 20th century.
No relegation, nothing to play for except the main title.
Then, if your team is shit or support fades away, let's up and move the whole kit and kaboodle to another city.
Remember the Seattle SuperSonics? Now OKC Thunder. Baseball started in California because of a stalemate between the owners of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Robert Moses, longtime infrastructure emperor of NYC. LA said they'd build them a beautiful stadium. SF the same for the Giants, formerly of the Polo Grounds in Harlem. NYC loses two long standing baseball teams in the blink of an eye. May not happen with football, but the possibility is there, with clubs the business possessions of corporations, not entities with roots in a community.
Thing totally f**king stinks.
Correct
Robert Kraft the owner of New England Patriots said he wouldn't invest in a European football club because they can get relegated and knocked out of a competition. If this new format goes ahead then you will see more billionaires getting involved and clubs purchased becoming a global franchise. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and needs to be stamped on now.
I can't think of a situation much worse than Liverpool sitting around 10th spot in this super league, year after year, winning maybe 8-10 games a season, and with absolutely nothing to play for.
Or worse, sitting in the bottom couple of spots, and still with nothing to play for, as they can't get f**king booted out in favour of another team on the rise.
I live in Queens, and we see it year after year after year with the Mets, playing in August and September to a half-empty stadium as yet another season fizzles out.
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 19, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
The owners wont care what the fans think - they'll just move their franchise to a place where the fans want it or the games will just tour around the world - Man Utd v Barcelona in Tokyo, Juve v Real Madrid in New York, Arsenal v Spurs in Omagh.
Don't think the soccer ball pitch is used in Omagh town.. The Casement of the soccer world..
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:58:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
In terms of competition it's different, in terms of rebranding a competition to make more money out of football as we saw in 1992, it's the same.
So if it's the same will the new Euro league put 400 mil into the EFL I don't think so, for what it's worth the smaller clubs I think should get more bit to suggest it's the same is wrong.
It's not about money to smaller clubs
They're rebranding a new competition to make more money out of football, which is exactly what we saw in 1992.
Correct. But they didn't reinvent the wheel qnd the rebrand was done with everyones blessing.
This proposal is to leave FIFA and set up a new sport. Its closer to rugbys split than the launch of the EPL
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 19, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
The owners wont care what the fans think - they'll just move their franchise to a place where the fans want it or the games will just tour around the world - Man Utd v Barcelona in Tokyo, Juve v Real Madrid in New York, Arsenal v Spurs in Omagh.
This. The Irish Pool fan is far more valuable than the local to the owners.
And don't be surprised to see rule changes and in game ad breaks
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
Quote from: sensethetone on April 19, 2021, 03:00:17 PM
Quote from: BennyHarp on April 19, 2021, 02:45:25 PM
The owners wont care what the fans think - they'll just move their franchise to a place where the fans want it or the games will just tour around the world - Man Utd v Barcelona in Tokyo, Juve v Real Madrid in New York, Arsenal v Spurs in Omagh.
Don't think the soccer ball pitch is used in Omagh town.. The Casement of the soccer world..
Could use Healy Park, as long as it doesn't rain in the 20 days prior.
UEFA have announced their plans for revised Champions League - although it doesn't come in until 2024/25
I think you'd have to see it in action to decide whether it's a better or worse than the current version, but can't understand deferring it for 3 and half years!
Number of teams increases from 32 to 36 in the UEFA Champions League, the biggest change will see a transformation from the traditional group stage to a single league stage including all participating teams. Every club will now be guaranteed a minimum of 10 league stage games against 10 different opponents (five home games, five away) rather than the previous six matches against three teams, played on a home and away basis.
The top eight sides in the league will qualify automatically for the knockout stage, while the teams finishing in ninth to 24th place will compete in a two-legged play-off to secure their path to the last 16 of the competition.
Similar format changes will also be applied to the UEFA Europa League (8 matches in the league stage) and UEFA Europa Conference League (6 matches in the league stage). Subject to further discussions and agreements, these two competitions may also be expanded to a total of 36 teams each in the league stage.
Qualification for the UEFA Champions League will continue to be open and earned through a team's performance in domestic competitions.
One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking. Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called "Champions Path".
The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.
All games before the final will still be played midweek, recognising the importance of the domestic calendar of games across Europe.
Let's call a spade a spade here, it's about American millionaires taking complete control for more financial gain and no governing body of influence. This whole thing happened in F1 a few years back but Bernie ecclestone and the FIA put a stop to the the car manufacturers take over. Mercedes have 1800 people employed at Brackley compared to 600 at Williams. The FIA have now stepped in and put spending caps on teams to even up the field and early signs are it seems to be working. Maybe the positive out of all this is FIFA and their EUEFA will start getting its house in order.
This is what the Glazers wanted all along. Guaranteed cashflow.
What a load of balls.
It's a bit like the GAA's Super 8's, but on steroids, with added gamma rays, eating spinach.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 03:21:57 PM
Let's call a spade a spade here, it's about American millionaires taking complete control for more financial gain and no governing body of influence. This whole thing happened in F1 a few years back but Bernie ecclestone and the FIA put a stop to the the car manufacturers take over. Mercedes have 1800 people employed at Brackley compared to 600 at Williams. The FIA have now stepped in and put spending caps on teams to even up the field and early signs are it seems to be working. Maybe the positive out of all this is FIFA and their EUEFA will start getting its house in order.
Bernie never done anything that didn't benefit himself.
https://www.ft.com/content/f00bb232-a150-4f7d-b26a-e1b62cd175c3
The 12 football clubs that have signed a binding agreement to form a new European "Super League" have been guaranteed a "welcome bonus" worth €200m-€300m each, according to people
with direct knowledge of the terms of a deal that will reshape the world's favourite sport. The announcement on Sunday of the breakaway league has kicked off an intense power battle within the game, with politicians including UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson and French president Emmanuel Macron as well as fans' groups all expressing fierce opposition. The move also sparked threats of legal action between the sport's power brokers. The teams that have declared they plan to join the competition are: Spain's Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atlético Madrid; England's Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur; and Italy's Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan.
People briefed on the deal said that the next clubs to be sought as "permanent members" would be Germany's Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund and France's Paris Saint-Germain, though they have so far rebuffed any approaches. A further five clubs will be invited to play in the 20-club league each season, though they would need to qualify for the competition. The money to launch the league will be provided by JPMorgan Chase, which has committed to underwriting a €3.25bn "infrastructure grant" that will be shared among the clubs as a "welcome bonus" on joining the competition. The US investment bank has provided a debt financing deal amortised over 23 years and secured against future broadcasting rights for the competition, said people with knowledge of the terms. The rebel clubs have agreed to pay €264m a year to pay down the debt, a figure that includes the 2-3 per cent interest rate that the borrowing will carry. JPMorgan declined to comment. The league's 15 permanent members will jointly own a newly incorporated company in Spain which will share all future media and sponsorship rights derived from the competition, according to people familiar with the matter. Anas Laghrari, a banker at Spanish advisory firm Key Capital, has been named general secretary of the Super League. He has close ties to Real Madrid's billionaire president Florentino Pérez, who was named chair of the competition and is the driving force behind the plans. Key Capital declined to comment. Weekly newsletter Scoreboard is the Financial Times' new must-read weekly briefing on the business of sport, where you'll find the best analysis of financial issues affecting clubs, franchises, owners, investors and media groups across the global industry. Sign up here. The Super League's organisers have held early discussions with broadcasters about the competition, according to people familiar with the talks, seeking to secure deals with likes of Amazon, Facebook, Disney and Comcast-owned Sky that would raise annual revenues worth €4bn a year. This is roughly double the amount earned by Champions League, the continent's top annual club competition. The belief that such projections are realistic is because the 200 new European games a year will be played midweek and only feature the world's top sides which have global fanbases. The Super League clubs will seek to continue to play in their respective national league contests, but would need the approval of groups like England's Premier League and Spain's La Liga to do so. The Super League was not immediately available for comment. But Super League clubs have vowed to provide about €400m in "solidarity grants" to teams and governing bodies in other competitions, a large increase on the funds provided through existing European competitions and money they hope will convince football authorities to avoid a protracted fight over the project. On Sunday night, the Super League clubs threatened legal action against football governing bodies that have vowed to block the breakaway competition. Recommended Football Premier L
eague boss attacks breakaway 'Super League' plan The announcement of the Super League comes as clubs across Europe have suffered steep revenue shortfalls owing to the pandemic, raising concerns over the sustainability of their business models and complicating any plans for new signings. The timing also coincides with a period which has seen the valuations for top-tier franchises grow rapidly, prompting questions over where these clubs would find new sources of revenue. Negotiations have been going on for months, with detailed term sheets shared with the founder clubs since November, according to documents seen by the Financial Times. But the clubs signed binding contracts to join the project over the weekend, ahead of a Uefa meeting on Monday at which European football's governing body was set to agree a radical transformation of the Champions League.
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 02:23:27 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:58:24 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:35:05 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 19, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 01:12:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on April 19, 2021, 09:15:56 AM
Have to laugh at the fake hysteria. The same people making excuses for the premier league being the exact same thing as it was pre 1992 but only being rebranded, are the same people that claim Liverpool have only won the league once.
You couldn't make it up. Hypocrites. According to them, the "Premier League" is fine, but a big no no to the European super league.
The games gone
It's not really the same thing. Until 1991, all 92 clubs had equal voting rights and in effect a group of the weakest clubs could dictate terms to the largest clubs.
What the PL did was maintain almost identical structures to before, but while ensuring that the biggest clubs could pursue financial arrangements that would allow them to match Italian clubs.
The change was oddly enough an implementation of equality: basically "we all started with an equal chance of getting ahead, but that doesn't mean we have to be equal in all things forever"
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
——
What we are facing now isn't the same thing. It's an attempted corporate takeover of football.
This is no different to the formation of the premier league, it is the same thing.
You confirm that the formation of the premier league put power into the bigger clubs hands, this is exactly the same with the ESL. So it was anything but equality.
City progressed through oil money, Leicester did it more in the proper way, by buying and selling smartly.
My point is that the people who are outraged are the same people who only recognise football post 1992. The hypocrisy is astounding.
I thought premiership money filtered down through to championship clubs so it's not the thing at all.
In terms of competition it's different, in terms of rebranding a competition to make more money out of football as we saw in 1992, it's the same.
So if it's the same will the new Euro league put 400 mil into the EFL I don't think so, for what it's worth the smaller clubs I think should get more bit to suggest it's the same is wrong.
It's not about money to smaller clubs
They're rebranding a new competition to make more money out of football, which is exactly what we saw in 1992.
They're not though.
They're creating a closed shop competition where these "founding" clubs can't get relegated out of it.
There'll never be a Leicester moment with this competition unless they buy their way into it.
These three "open" spots are bullshít.
Ed Woodward not coming out of this smelling of roses according to UEFA but that's not in the least bit surprising. He is the embodiment of commercialism.
Quote from: yellowcard on April 19, 2021, 03:57:18 PM
Ed Woodward not coming out of this smelling of roses according to UEFA but that's not in the least bit surprising. He is the embodiment of commercialism.
Him glacier and Fenway, they base their status in this world on how many zeros are on the end of their bank accounts. Time to get rid of them all even if it means LFC playing in the EFL I couldn't care less.
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 03:19:43 PM
UEFA have announced their plans for revised Champions League - although it doesn't come in until 2024/25
I think you'd have to see it in action to decide whether it's a better or worse than the current version, but can't understand deferring it for 3 and half years!
Number of teams increases from 32 to 36 in the UEFA Champions League, the biggest change will see a transformation from the traditional group stage to a single league stage including all participating teams. Every club will now be guaranteed a minimum of 10 league stage games against 10 different opponents (five home games, five away) rather than the previous six matches against three teams, played on a home and away basis.
The top eight sides in the league will qualify automatically for the knockout stage, while the teams finishing in ninth to 24th place will compete in a two-legged play-off to secure their path to the last 16 of the competition.
Similar format changes will also be applied to the UEFA Europa League (8 matches in the league stage) and UEFA Europa Conference League (6 matches in the league stage). Subject to further discussions and agreements, these two competitions may also be expanded to a total of 36 teams each in the league stage.
Qualification for the UEFA Champions League will continue to be open and earned through a team's performance in domestic competitions.
One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking. Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called "Champions Path".
The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.
All games before the final will still be played midweek, recognising the importance of the domestic calendar of games across Europe.
That and this so called super league are awful formats.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 03:19:43 PM
UEFA have announced their plans for revised Champions League - although it doesn't come in until 2024/25
I think you'd have to see it in action to decide whether it's a better or worse than the current version, but can't understand deferring it for 3 and half years!
Number of teams increases from 32 to 36 in the UEFA Champions League, the biggest change will see a transformation from the traditional group stage to a single league stage including all participating teams. Every club will now be guaranteed a minimum of 10 league stage games against 10 different opponents (five home games, five away) rather than the previous six matches against three teams, played on a home and away basis.
The top eight sides in the league will qualify automatically for the knockout stage, while the teams finishing in ninth to 24th place will compete in a two-legged play-off to secure their path to the last 16 of the competition.
Similar format changes will also be applied to the UEFA Europa League (8 matches in the league stage) and UEFA Europa Conference League (6 matches in the league stage). Subject to further discussions and agreements, these two competitions may also be expanded to a total of 36 teams each in the league stage.
Qualification for the UEFA Champions League will continue to be open and earned through a team's performance in domestic competitions.
One of the additional places will go to the club ranked third in the championship of the association in fifth position in the UEFA national association ranking. Another will be awarded to a domestic champion by extending from four to five the number of clubs qualifying via the so-called "Champions Path".
The final two places will go to the clubs with the highest club coefficient over the last five years that have not qualified for the Champions League group stage but have qualified either for the Champions League qualification phase, the Europa League or the Europa Conference League.
All games before the final will still be played midweek, recognising the importance of the domestic calendar of games across Europe.
That and this so called super league are awful formats.
100%.
Both protecting the elite clubs.
Means the likes of City/Liverpool/Utd will get into it every year regardless of where they finish
I'd love to see the new 36 team league format in action. Playing 10 different teams would be better than just 3. There'd be a bit of the luck of the draw in terms of which 10 out of the other 35 you play, but there's luck of the draw in any event.
Would need to see it in action to judge properly of course, might be an interesting format for the All Ireland ;D
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
I think that's where it's headed. LA Galaxy, NY red bulls, some of the big Chinese sides, Saudi Arabia, Dubai. Clubs with no history but lots of cash will be "invited" to join to create a global tv audience which is where the big momey comes in. Obscene idea with no sporting integrity but business people couldn't care less as long as they have mugs spending all their money for merchandise and the opportunity to watch on tv. I'll not be spending a penny on this so called glamour "product". The time england moved to the premier league was the first time I heard soccer being referred to as a product and that was the start of the slippery slope. Soccer fans are being taken for mugs.
I think we can all agree that the owners of Juve, Inter, AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcelona,Atletico Madrid, Man United, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City are right cnuts.
Hopefully this competition never gets up and running and if it does UEFA and the Premier league, La Liga, Serie A should not hold back on punishment.
I think it's clear that this is not a negotiating tactic
Yeah it seems a lot more than a negotiating tactic at this stage. I don't think the dirty dozen can come back from this, they've certainly done a lot of damage if they do somehow back down from this position
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
70 min Irish diaspora is a pretty decent tv market. Strangers things have happened.
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
70 min Irish diaspora is a pretty decent tv market. Strangers things have happened.
And a ready to go Aviva Stadium in waiting! I'm sure even the GAA would hire out an empty Croker for the empty months of October to May!
https://www.otbsports.com/soccer/uefa-super-league-champions-league-1182218
How about the players make a stand ?
Klopp not happy at all going by that interview
How can any football person be happy with this , it's just completely soulless, its horrible.
I understand the anger of fans of this sport, but they're not being realistic if they think this greed is now a big thing.
These clubs stopped caring about the working class fans a couple of decades ago. The players and bosses earn more in a week than many supporters will in 10-20 years. Ticket prices, merchandise moving to stadiums named after sponsors ....fans will keep buying it and make the rich richer. Instead of being 2 light-years away in terms of a connection with the fans, they'll now be 4 light-years away.
I stopped really caring about the sides I liked a long time ago for those reasons and couldn't care less about this news.
PSG finally get that champions league win and poch will win a trophy.
Had to laugh at Richards from City on 5 Live tonight, he's gutted and raging that his club from humble beginnings are entering this ESL!
Quote from: larryin89 on April 19, 2021, 07:43:09 PM
How can any football person be happy with this , it's just completely soulless, its horrible.
I'm less annoyed today than I was the day 16 years ago my club was signed into £570m of debt. Almost all of which is still owed despite £1.5 billion been stripped from the club to service the debt.
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 19, 2021, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
70 min Irish diaspora is a pretty decent tv market. Strangers things have happened.
And a ready to go Aviva Stadium in waiting! I'm sure even the GAA would hire out an empty Croker for the empty months of October to May!
The FAI didn't allow the Dublin Dons in the 90's. There is less chance now and the pressure UEFA would put them under if they got use of the FAI's hall.
I cannot see the GAA letting this in. If they see grassroots and LoI football as a threat, imagine how this wpuld be percieved
Quote from: lenny on April 19, 2021, 05:03:03 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
I think that's where it's headed. LA Galaxy, NY red bulls, some of the big Chinese sides, Saudi Arabia, Dubai. Clubs with no history but lots of cash will be "invited" to join to create a global tv audience which is where the big momey comes in. Obscene idea with no sporting integrity but business people couldn't care less as long as they have mugs spending all their money for merchandise and the opportunity to watch on tv. I'll not be spending a penny on this so called glamour "product". The time england moved to the premier league was the first time I heard soccer being referred to as a product and that was the start of the slippery slope. Soccer fans are being taken for mugs.
As soon as I posted it struck me I was missing the arab markets.
To be fair, I haven't heard one soccer fan cheer for this, but this is directed at the consumers, not the fans
The soul is long gone out of English soccer. Late 80s probably the end of real supporters from the immediate catchment area of the various grounds.
Used to care then you wise up or grow up and realise the nonsense of any affiliation to a team that you really have no physical connection with.
I do get a chuckle from adult men running around in replica jerseys talking about 'we' when referring to Spurs, Utd, city, Arsenal or Liverpool.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on April 19, 2021, 06:58:39 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 19, 2021, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Sportacus on April 19, 2021, 03:14:43 PM
No relegation so the whole thing is de-risked for the billionaires. This isn't going away. A billionaire could role into Dublin and launch a team for the ESL - strangers things could happen in the future.
I think Rome, Berlin, Moscow, Istanbul, New York, Beijing, Tokyo, Rio, Buenos Aries would be higher on the list. Even Glasgow.
70 min Irish diaspora is a pretty decent tv market. Strangers things have happened.
And a ready to go Aviva Stadium in waiting! I'm sure even the GAA would hire out an empty Croker for the empty months of October to May!
The FAI didn't allow the Dublin Dons in the 90's. There is less chance now and the pressure UEFA would put them under if they got use of the FAI's hall.
I cannot see the GAA letting this in. If they see grassroots and LoI football as a threat, imagine how this wpuld be percieved
I think the stadium issue will mean Dublin is a non runner for an ESL franchise. The aviva will not be allowed by the loacal residents, Dublin City Council etc to play an extra 20 games a year in the stadium. Croke Park being the GAA and an extra 20 games a year on top of what is already there will not be tolerated by the residents and Dublin City Council
There's enough reason to be anti Super League without going into the realms of fantasy/nonsense.
There is absolutely no chance that any of the 12 would move from Liverpool, Manchester, London, Madrid, Barcelona, Milan or Turin to Dublin or anywhere else!
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Also ManU and Arsenal out of the other yoke.
UEFA very keen to do this, but need to find a rule they can impose! If they do, there is some talk that rather than awarding PSG the trophy, they could re-instate Porto and Dortmund to play a semi, with winner playing PSG.
I wasn't listening with 100% attention, but the Palace chairman on Sky Sports seemed to say that the PSG chair and the UEFA chair are very close, hence PSG not joining the bandits.
Quote from: Hound on April 19, 2021, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Also ManU and Arsenal out of the other yoke.
UEFA very keen to do this, but need to find a rule they can impose! If they do, there is some talk that rather than awarding PSG the trophy, they could re-instate Porto and Dortmund to play a semi, with winner playing PSG.
I wasn't listening with 100% attention, but the Palace chairman on Sky Sports seemed to say that the PSG chair and the UEFA chair are very close, hence PSG not joining the bandits.
Also PSG are tied to Bein Sports. Who have not been included in the party.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Whos saying it? Would be incredible if it happened.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Whos saying it? Would be incredible if it happened.
The head of UEFA mentioned it this morning. The head of the Danish FA said this evening there's a UEFA meeting on Friday to try and kick them out.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 09:09:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on April 19, 2021, 08:29:38 PM
More journalists are saying Real Madrid, Chelsea and Manchester City will be thrown out of this seasons Champions league. Will the cup be given to PSG if that happens. Won't make much sense as PSG will eventually join a Super League.
Whos saying it? Would be incredible if it happened.
The head of the Danish FA, and UEFA executive committee member, Jesper Møller expects Chelsea, Real Madrid, and Manchester City to be kicked out of this season's Champions League.
Really stirring stuff from Neville and Carragher on MNF.
Quote from: RedHand88 on April 19, 2021, 09:13:48 PM
Really stirring stuff from Neville and Carragher on MNF.
I know but f**k sake were do these guys get off. They are on Sky Sports. A Murdoch owned pay tv channel. Neville never opened his mouth when the Glaziers bought the club. He has a backbone when it suits his agenda.
Birmingham City have already came out and said the club won't be entering this new enterprise.
Ståle Solbakken (Norway Manager):
"In recent years [Juventus] have been knocked out by Lyon, Porto and Ajax in the Champions League. Why the f*ck should they be in such a tournament then? Tottenham and Arsenal are currently, probably not, among the 20-30 best teams in Europe"
https://www.ft.com/content/fa8ca103-515a-42d7-8acf-81527114f552
When the head of Uefa heard on Saturday that many of the world's most famous football clubs were on the verge of announcing a radical plan to join a breakaway "Super League" that would upend the sport, he knew who to ask. Aleksander Ceferin, president of European football's governing body Uefa, turned to Andrea Agnelli, a scion of the Italian billionaire dynasty that owns Turin-based Juventus, Italy's most dominant football club. "[Agnelli] said these are only rumours and then he said I'll call you in one hour," Ceferin told a press conference on Monday. "He turned off his phone. The next day, we get the announcement."
(https://i.ibb.co/WnkKZpg/Screenshot-20210419-215435-2.png) (https://ibb.co/5TrcmxB)
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
Ffs. Third tier Leicester City who were bought by a Thai billionaire?!
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
Good grief, do people actually believe this pony?! Man City have shown what's possible? To who? Other clubs owned by petrostates?!
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
Ffs. Third tier Leicester City who were bought by a Thai billionaire?!
So what? They still won the league having come from the 3rd tier. They still qualified for the champions league based on the results of actual football matches played in that season. The nationality or wealth of their deceased owner does not alter the relevance of that.
Fans want to believe that what's happens on the pitch matters. This proposal says that it does not.
Fair play to Milner for being a man in front of the cameras and klopp earlier. Time for the other clubs to step up in the press.
The popular response seems to be very strongly against. That means the political response will be similar. It's plutocrats vs the people.
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 10:12:57 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
Ffs. Third tier Leicester City who were bought by a Thai billionaire?!
So what? They still won the league having come from the 3rd tier. They still qualified for the champions league based on the results of actual football matches played in that season. The nationality or wealth of their deceased owner does not alter the relevance of that.
Fans want to believe that what's happens on the pitch matters. This proposal says that it does not.
Leicester winning the league totally against the odds was a great story and all neutral fans was pleased for them. Less so Manchester City's recent success.
This is laughable. Outrage over the rich wanting to be richer so fans can pretend that anything is possible, using Leicester as an example. Because that's what fans want. Fairytales.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 19, 2021, 09:49:04 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 19, 2021, 09:27:35 PMI know but f**k sake were do these guys get off. They are on Sky Sports. A Murdoch owned pay tv channel. Neville never opened his mouth when the Glaziers bought the club. He has a backbone when it suits his agenda.
BiB: Murdoch sold off BSkyB in 2018.
Ack ok but the point is valid.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:07:01 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 19, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
As Leicester and Man City have shown, progress through the ranks has always been possible
Good grief, do people actually believe this pony?! Man City have shown what's possible? To who? Other clubs owned by petrostates?!
I think you're talking about apples but thinking about pears.
Regardless of how much money Leicester and City spent on their journeys from lower leagues to the Champions League, they could only do so because the opportunity exists.
And they got a chance to wave at the likes of Leeds and Portsmouth on the way down.
But there's Leeds back on Monday Night Football tonight.
——
The "Super League" ends these possibilities.
That the "opportunity exists" on an equal and shared basis is a complete fabrication. The opportunity only exists to historically relevant, large successful clubs, or those backed by wealthy benefactors, or both.
Leicester could only take that opportunity (an incredible achievement) due to having a wealthy owner. Swindon Town aren't winning the PL. Ever. Despite the fact that the opportunity exists for them.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:23:12 PM
That the "opportunity exists" on an equal and shared basis is a complete fabrication. The opportunity only exists to historically relevant, large successful clubs, or those backed by wealthy benefactors, or both.
Leicester could only take that opportunity (an incredible achievement) due to having a wealthy owner. Swindon Town aren't winning the PL. Ever. Despite the fact that the opportunity exists for them.
Some people just don't wish to understand the concept of equality. It's not possible for everyone to have equal all the time. The key to equality in sport is that everyone involved has a chance, through strategic purchases, production and appointments, to achieve the lot. But here's the basic reality: only one team can win a championship each season. There's at least 19 losers in every flight.
By the same accord football wasn't "equal" for the blue half of Manchester for 50 years. Their neighbours had more money, more support, more influence. And then they'd Ferguson.
Then they hit the financial jackpot and things evened up, then tilted in their favour.
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
Ffs. Third tier Leicester City who were bought by a Thai billionaire?!
Ah come on. What did that Leicester team cost compared to United/City/Chelsea teams?
Fair play to Jurgen Klopp. Would love to see someone like Marcus Rashford come out strongly against this shite, he'd get huge support.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:25 PM
Fair play to Jurgen Klopp. Would love to see someone like Marcus Rashford come out strongly against this shite, he'd get huge support.
That's a lot to expect of a young lad like Rashford, credit to himself as he is.
Hopefully senior players will lead the way. James Milner said his piece tonight, as did Bamford for Leeds. But you need more senior players from the six teams involved.
They have to come together to stop this, as must the fans.
Top class Euro competition places must be earned on the pitch, not divied out based on wealth and perceived standing solely to make rich owners and banks even more rich.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:25 PM
Fair play to Jurgen Klopp. Would love to see someone like Marcus Rashford come out strongly against this shite, he'd get huge support.
And a P45.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 11:41:23 PM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 10:03:43 PM
Quote from: shark on April 19, 2021, 08:43:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on April 19, 2021, 08:33:32 AM
So much faux outrage over this from fans. They'll still watch and fork out whatever insane subscription fee is required to do so on DAZN or whatever and they'll still buy season tickets and the stadia will all be full. Until fans actually start voting with their wallets, no meaningful change will ever happen. Look at the state of so many Newcastle fans and prominent Newcastle journalists trying to argue that there's absolutely nothing wrong with MBS buying the club.
Perhaps United fans can buy some green and gold scarves again?
Fans don't want change. They want things to stay the way they are. The model where we can see 3rd tier Leicester City competing in the last 16 of the European Cup within 6 years.
Ffs. Third tier Leicester City who were bought by a Thai billionaire?!
Ah come on. What did that Leicester team cost compared to United/City/Chelsea teams?
Come on what? It's undeniably a great against-the-odds story. It's also undeniable that it was underwritten by external money that allowed them to climb the divisions. Pretending otherwise is daft
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 01:51:14 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 19, 2021, 11:43:25 PM
Fair play to Jurgen Klopp. Would love to see someone like Marcus Rashford come out strongly against this shite, he'd get huge support.
And a P45.
If enough players come out against it, the owners will be sitting on a big pile of nothing.
Milner has come out against it.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
It's an absolute mess. How would a world cup or european championships look without players from these clubs? It would be a mess. Are they really going to pull teams out of the champions league too? How big a can of worms would that be for sponsors, tv companies etc etc. They would all want their money back and probably then some.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Yeah fair play to him was great to see.
He's very likeable Milner to be fair to him. Great professional. Even for a Liverpool player ;D
This ESL thing is senior hurling
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/19/super-league-clubs-may-kicked-years-uefa-competitions-president/
Uefa in talks over £5.2bn private investment to ward off Super League threat
By Tom Morgan and Jason Burt
Uefa executives are in talks over a £5.2 billion cash injection from a London-based private investment firm as part of efforts to torpedo the Super League breakaway.
Centricus Asset Management are said to be discussing a $6 bn financing package as an alternative funding arrangement for the Champions League. As it stands, all money European competitions generate is through television rights, leading to annual distribution of around £3 billion.
The breakaway plot that includes England's so-called 'Big Six' will attempt to win favour by telling domestic competitions a solidarity package worth up to £10 bn over 23 years would exceed any equivalent packages from Uefa.
To counter that move, Uefa is said to have been in contact with Centricus to discuss a plan for Champions League reform that could go beyond the "Swiss-system" announced yesterday.
A private-finance backed scheme would offer an immediate threat to the JP Morgan-backed breakaway which still needs to attract three more founding members.
A representative for Centricus declined to comment when contacted by the Bloomberg news agency, which first reported on the talks. Meanwhile, the 14 Premier League clubs not included in the breakaway will meet on Tuesday to discuss legal options to defeat the rebels.
The meeting, scheduled for 11am, will be chaired by top tier chief executive Richard Masters, who will lay out the organisation's planned response. With lawyers due to explain the top tier's legal position, Masters will invite the clubs to take part in a brainstorm and frank discussion. It is hoped the clubs will agree on a position for an updated statement, which sources hope will have "significant ramifications".
The 'Big Six' rebels are confident that the other clubs will not try and expel them from the Premier League and not least because their involvement drives up the broadcast revenues which are so vital to their existence. Without the 'Big Six' the multi-billion pound contracts paid by the likes of Sky Sports would be in tatters and the whole of the football pyramid – including the 72 EFL clubs – would be in jeopardy.
FSG don't need the local fans
they're perfectly happy with 30,000 day trippers each week who don't care about this stuff
The Glazers bought Man Utd for this. It's effectively an option. If it works out they are in the money. If ESL was defeated why would they stay ?
UEFA are threatening to ban players from Wotld Cups etc because this Super League plan threatens their new look Champions League/Europa League cash cows.
I think we're at a time where less games in Europe are needed, not more (especially what's been going on in the wotld for more than a year). The arsehole has been well and truly ripped out of European competitions. It's become so sanitized and monotonous.
Perhaps if the premier league and UEFA had clamped down on the Glazer takeover in the first place we wouldn't be in this situation, an absolute disgrace such a highly leveraged takeover was allowed to happen with no interference from any governing body.
Gary Neville is another hypocrite, just looks at what he's doing with Salford and had to laugh when he talked about City and what they've done to east Manchester; You'd think nobody else was interested in the land, he's highly involved with property in Manchester City Centre and has his own relationships with the council.
United were taken over in 2005 so its taken him 16 year to come out and slaughtered them, funnily enough just weeks after United had appointed Fletcher/Murtough to roles that Neville was apparently interested in.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Perez talk on behalf of the Super league, shows how unprepared and illjudged they have been to date.
Car crash stuff. Basically blamed years of mismanagement and over spending by Real and Barca on the pandemic and said they need a bail out as a result and this is the way. Then says everyone will be ok because we will go back to doing that again and spend all this money and smaller clubs will benefit as we will pay more money. Bonkers stuff.
And that's before he talks about possibly reducing length of games, agreeing an entry system for CL teams with UEFA and random surveys they have carried out. Even tried to say PSG and German teams not mentioned.
Mad stuff.
https://www.ft.com/content/e42b84e8-91f3-4642-9306-fe81552453fe
A battle for the soul of European football Super League plans would import a US-style model of competition THE EDITORIAL BOARD
Never has football seen a clash like this. The proposed European Super League pits a US model of a tournament played among members of a largely closed group against the more open style of footballing competitions in the "old continent".
Cynics might call it a brass-knuckle attempt by a powerful new quasi-cartel to supplant a rather older one, in the shape of Uefa, its Champions League and national associations. Who wins will have a profound impact on the future of the European game. The struggle poses questions about football's nature: is it a business like any other, or something more? With billions of euros of television rights and sponsorship money at stake and many clubs owned by investors demanding a return, top-level football clearly is big business. Today's clash reflects its evolution from community-based sport into an arm of the global entertainment industry. Yet TV revenues generated by the big clubs help to support an extensive ecosystem of more minor teams.
As a business, football also relies for its audience on passion, suspense and unpredictability. True, a handful of clubs are now dominant in most countries. But the "pyramid" structure of the game in Europe allows even the smallest teams to break through to the top ranks — including European competitions — or win trophies through giant-killing exploits. Outside the top few, other clubs rise and fall with time. While the Super League is proposed to have five rotating places, it will have 15 permanent members. That will make it look more like US leagues where there is no relegation or promotion and, as a result, revenues are far more predictable — leading to higher valuations. It is no coincidence that four founding clubs — Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool, plus Italy's AC Milan — have American owners, and a US bank is providing the financing. The league may also have US-style cost-control elements such as salary caps and spending limits. Its backers insist there is no shortage of excitement in American sport.
The potential to pull in larger global TV audiences and tap new markets, they add, including through partnerships with the likes of Amazon and Facebook, would create a more financially stable tip of the European pyramid and increase fund flows to the base. Yet having only five places up for grabs each year would limit the intrigues over who will "qualify for Europe". Even if national divisions, such as the Premier League, relent on their threat to bar ESL participants, there is a real likelihood they will become less competitive as the top teams focus on midweek European fixtures. That would erode the attraction for the hundreds of thousands of fans who turn out to weekend games each week, but could never afford to travel repeatedly to European matches.
A better solution would be to rejig the Champions League in a way the big clubs can live with, without caving in to all their demands. There is no reason Uefa itself could not market a revamped product to new audiences via Big Tech. Some elements of the ESL's plans, such as tighter caps on spending and pay — which could reduce the ability of super-wealthy owners to buy their way to success — may be worth copying. Yet even if football is more than pure business, it is not an area in which governments should intervene, despite the spluttering of leaders from Boris Johnson of the UK to France's Emmanuel Macron. The battle may be brutal, and poses a threat to this year's European Championship for national teams. But the future of top-flight football should be decided not by politicians but by players, clubs, managers, if necessary the courts, and above all the fans.
Quote from: Louther on April 20, 2021, 10:17:52 AM
Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Perez talk on behalf of the Super league, shows how unprepared and illjudged they have been to date.
Car crash stuff. Basically blamed years of mismanagement and over spending by Real and Barca on the pandemic and said they need a bail out as a result and this is the way. Then says everyone will be ok because we will go back to doing that again and spend all this money and smaller clubs will benefit as we will pay more money. Bonkers stuff.
And that's before he talks about possibly reducing length of games, agreeing an entry system for CL teams with UEFA and random surveys they have carried out. Even tried to say PSG and German teams not mentioned.
Mad stuff.
In fairness, Spurs owe about 1bn on the new Stadium, United have been in debt for years....it's not just the Spanish.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 09:28:57 AM
FSG don't need the local fans
they're perfectly happy with 30,000 day trippers each week who don't care about this stuff
Sadly, you appear to be absolutely correct.
I would go further even, and say that they're much less concerned with ANY match-going fans and much more with the tv audience.
They know they'll fill Anfield no matter what.
UEFA/FIFA threating players won't be allowed to play in their own hyper corrupt World Cup is peak irony.
Football sold its soul a long time ago, at this rate it looks to me something on par with the Kinahan infiltration of boxing, these clubs are surely being used to wash dirty money, this is just a further extension of this.
A lot of lessons here for the GAA, grassroots structures and community cohesion is everything as the output is a genuine contribution to society.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
This breakaway group should have taken the GAA approach - announce a top tier competition and claim that participation is based on merit.
Whenever a big name is in danger of failing to make the cut, then make up new rules to allow them participate.
Case in point, when Cork footballers looked at risk of falling into the Tailteann Cup, then a fudge was made about losing provincial finalists making the cut.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 11:03:00 AM
Quote from: Louther on April 20, 2021, 10:17:52 AM
Whoever thought it was a good idea to let Perez talk on behalf of the Super league, shows how unprepared and illjudged they have been to date.
Car crash stuff. Basically blamed years of mismanagement and over spending by Real and Barca on the pandemic and said they need a bail out as a result and this is the way. Then says everyone will be ok because we will go back to doing that again and spend all this money and smaller clubs will benefit as we will pay more money. Bonkers stuff.
And that's before he talks about possibly reducing length of games, agreeing an entry system for CL teams with UEFA and random surveys they have carried out. Even tried to say PSG and German teams not mentioned.
Mad stuff.
In fairness, Spurs owe about 1bn on the new Stadium, United have been in debt for years....it's not just the Spanish.
Its totally different though. Utd were an LBO and took on the debt to pay for the club and the club has had no issue servicing that debt from its internally generated free cash. (In stark contract to what Hicks and Gillette ha din mind for LFC). Utd fans might not like it but its the owners prerogative to leverage a company as they see fit as long as they do not deliberately adversely affect creditors. Spurs took on debt to pay for a major, transformative cash generating asset. Again, there was a business plan prepared that will set out how the higher cash generation pays down the debt.
Barca and RMs debt plan seemed to be based on paying on the never never, almost like a country's national debt. I am not sure how true it is but I have heard rumours about banks being "encouraged" to lend to these clubs by high profile public figures and politicians.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
What court room? CAS rarely side eith the owners. If registrations are voided so are contracts. If clubs can dump players for getting banned players can dump clubs for getting banned.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
Bizarrely it might be Chelsea who brings the Super League down if the reports doing the rounds are accurate.....either them or City anyway.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
Bizarrely it might be Chelsea who brings the Super League down if the reports doing the rounds are accurate.....either them or City anyway.
That makes sense. I am guessing City/Chelseaowners are not as concerned with club valuations as FSG/Glazers/kroenke/Levy. Those guys are all investors and will always have planned to exit and cash in at some point. The ESL just creates a value event by making revenue streanms more certain meaning they can take on more debt which increases returns to equity holders. Sheikh Mansoor and Abramovich bought the clubs as vanity projects and while they will obvioulsy want to make as much as possible I suspect there are different levels of incentivisation in there.
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
What court room? CAS rarely side eith the owners. If registrations are voided so are contracts. If clubs can dump players for getting banned players can dump clubs for getting banned.
They have already filed in local courts apparently and it might not even go through CAS but hey I'm no law expert like yourself
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 12:20:49 PM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 20, 2021, 11:40:55 AM
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
Exactly
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
What court room? CAS rarely side eith the owners. If registrations are voided so are contracts. If clubs can dump players for getting banned players can dump clubs for getting banned.
They have already filed in local courts apparently and it might not even go through CAS but hey I'm no law expert like yourself
What local courts tbough? Thats just yank puffchesting
https://twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1384457495402352642?s=19 (https://twitter.com/vicderbyshire/status/1384457495402352642?s=19)
It's ok, the Dubai Liverpool supporters club are all for it, that's the main thing.
Problem is that these lads are the target audience. The owners will look at people like this and think they are doing a good job by breaking away.
Between this and the farce the All Ireland championship is becoming, life just sucks.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Bruce Buck the chairman of Chelsea is or was CEO of a Global law firm. To think these sharks haven't anticipated all this is naive. These guys can "lawyer up" and fight with anybody in a courtroom.
Bizarrely it might be Chelsea who brings the Super League down if the reports doing the rounds are accurate.....either them or City anyway.
That makes sense. I am guessing City/Chelseaowners are not as concerned with club valuations as FSG/Glazers/kroenke/Levy. Those guys are all investors and will always have planned to exit and cash in at some point. The ESL just creates a value event by making revenue streanms more certain meaning they can take on more debt which increases returns to equity holders. Sheikh Mansoor and Abramovich bought the clubs as vanity projects and while they will obvioulsy want to make as much as possible I suspect there are different levels of incentivisation in there.
It seems widely agreed that Chelsea and Man City were the last two of the six to agree to join, but the rumours of them pulling out are based on that rather than anything real.
They all signed contracts at the weekend which seemingly would result in severe financial penalties owed to the other members, if they unilaterally pull out.
But we'll see.
It'll be very interesting to see what the Premier League 14 come up with after today's meeting.
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
https://www.ft.com/content/e80299a4-8012-447a-8512-c24e149304b1
Leaked Super League documents reveal US-style plan to transform elite football's finances
Documents for breakaway football contest reveal revenue-sharing agreements and cost controls
One person involved in the deal says the Super League's distribution model aims to ensure the competition's winner will receive just 1.5 times more than the bottom side © REUTERS
Murad Ahmed and Arash Massoudi in London AN HOUR AGO
Leaked plans for the European Super League show an unprecedented effort to cap spiralling player wages and share wealth between football's richest clubs.
The measures, which range from revenue-sharing arrangements to strict spending limits, have been confirmed by the Financial Times and closely resemble the structure of top US sports leagues.
A dozen top clubs including England's Manchester United, Spain's Real Madrid and Italy's AC Milan, have signed up to join the breakaway contest that threatens to shatter the existing power structures in the world's most-watched sport.
Despite uproar among fans, European politicians and football pundits, the Super League clubs are pushing ahead with a project they believe will raise upwards of €4bn a season from global broadcasting and sponsorship rights. That figure is roughly double that of the Champions League, the continent's top club contest, which the Super League is designed to supersede.
According to those familiar with the plans, the 15 "founding clubs" of the Super League would share 32.5 per cent of these commercial revenues. A further 32.5 per cent would be distributed between all 20 participating teams, including the five sides invited to play in the competition each year. Twenty per cent of revenues would be allocated on "merit" or be dependent on performance in the competition. The final 15 per cent would be shared based on broadcast audience size.
A person directly involved in the deal said the distribution model ensured the competition winner would receive just 1.5 times more than the bottom side. By comparison, that ratio in Spain's La Liga is closer to 3.5 times. However, clubs will be also allowed to retain all revenues from gate receipts and club sponsorship deals.
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The model is closer in design to North American sports leagues such as the National Basketball Association and National Football League, in which franchises strike joint commercial agreements, and use collective bargaining agreements with players and other measures to level the playing field.
Those competitions are "closed", meaning that teams are guaranteed their place every year, ensuring reliable revenues and steady profits for owners.
But the Super League structure represents a fundamental break with how European football has been governed for years, with its "pyramid" structure that ensures any team, through on-pitch success, can reach for the top prizes.
Many of the Super League's main architects, such as Manchester United, Liverpool and AC Milan have US owners, while the €3.25bn launch cost is financed by a debt deal underwritten by US investment bank JPMorgan Chase.
Yet the driving force behind the project is Florentino Pérez, Real Madrid's president who has been named chair of the Super League. He has pointed to the financial crisis at top clubs, many of which have suffered steep revenue shortfalls due to the pandemic and are heavily indebted, saying in a Spanish TV interview that they "are ruined".
Another common feature of US franchises is strict spending limits. Super League clubs have committed to using only 55 per cent of their revenues on "sport spending", such as player salaries, transfer and agent fees, according to people familiar with the terms. European clubs typically spend 70 to 80 per cent of their income on footballers' wages alone.
Super League clubs have also signed up to a "tax equalisation" clause so that "income tax on salaries shall be normalised and calculated at a rate of 45 per cent", according to people with direct knowledge of the contracts. This would ensure clubs in Spain, where footballers pay a higher top rate of tax than in Italy or England, are not at a competitive disadvantage when the spending limits are assessed.
The documents add that Super League clubs must have "positive trailing earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation and net profit". This is intended to break with the past dynamic, where many clubs, particularly those with rich owners, have racked up huge losses to acquire the best players in the pursuit of silverware.
The Super League declined to comment on the numbers, but said its model was based on higher "solidarity" payments to smaller teams and an effort to create a "sustainable model for the whole of the football pyramid".
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
Don't think the greedy six intend to drop out of the Premiership and in all likelihood would intent to fulfill their commitments to the PL.
Problem is the lack of "top 4" and thereafter for the other 14 teams in the premiership unless UEFA decide to continue with their Champions League without the rest...
Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on April 20, 2021, 11:26:47 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on April 20, 2021, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 20, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
Milner has come out against it.
Seriously? You'd need players that will actually be playing in it. As much as Milner is a great pro, his best days are behind him, If Liverpool are in this league next year he'll be at Norwich.
Unless we get the likes of Salah Rashford Kane and co coming out and s are ting they won't play in it then it won't get any traction.
These lads are paid a wage and under contract. No one will walk away from an increase in wages, unless another team outside of the 12 offer them the same
The bigger issue might be will players be able to walk away from a contract? This talk of banning players from other competitions is non sensical to me. Like it or not players are employees and subject to employment laws. They will therefore be in an impossible situation. Forego years of their career and their salary or play for their employers. That's before restraint of trade and monopoly laws are even considered. The governing bodies need to tread softly on this one or they could end up alienating the player base which would make a league like this more likely.
I understand it is very simple. Players can be banned worldwide for anumber of reasons. This would be another one. Contracts are tied to registrations. Remember this time next week those 12 clubs may no longer be soccer clubs in the sense we know it. Contracts would void and they would be free agents.
I'm no legal expert but it's far from simple. This has the potential to be a massive pain in the arse. Also CAS are not anti owners although this probably wouldn't even end up there with the myriad of other issues
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
As was I until I heard the Palace chairman on last night.
The rest of the PL need these big clubs to stay in the PL.
Talk of expelling them from the PL would be the death kneel for the PL as we know it and would mean significantly less £££ for all of the remaining clubs.
Like it or not the top 6 could have the PL by the balls here so to speak
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 02:37:18 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
Don't think the greedy six intend to drop out of the Premiership and in all likelihood would intent to fulfill their commitments to the PL.
Problem is the lack of "top 4" and thereafter for the other 14 teams in the premiership unless UEFA decide to continue with their Champions League without the rest...
The six definitely want to stay in the premier league as their first option. They already have a spending advantage over the 14, this new Super League would make that way bigger, and would almost guarantee the 6 would be the top 6 every year forever.
Seafoid's FT article shows how revenues will be split. It adds up to 100%! What about the % going down the pyramid?!
Or is it as Florentino Perez said - "We'll buy your best players, so you'll get more money that way" !
I would think Premier League 14 have to threaten to throw the 6 out.
That would likely be a big short term hit, and they'd be hoping all out that the 6 would cave and not call their bluff.
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 02:43:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
As was I until I heard the Palace chairman on last night.
The rest of the PL need these big clubs to stay in the PL.
Talk of expelling them from the PL would be the death kneel for the PL as we know it and would mean significantly less £££ for all of the remaining clubs.
Like it or not the top 6 could have the PL by the balls here so to speak
Would it be the case that the 6 that are joining up will play their main players in the ESL and a mix for the league?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 20, 2021, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: Taylor on April 20, 2021, 02:43:23 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
As was I until I heard the Palace chairman on last night.
The rest of the PL need these big clubs to stay in the PL.
Talk of expelling them from the PL would be the death kneel for the PL as we know it and would mean significantly less £££ for all of the remaining clubs.
Like it or not the top 6 could have the PL by the balls here so to speak
Would it be the case that the 6 that are joining up will play their main players in the ESL and a mix for the league?
That looks like the plan and would devalue the PL - as well as being against the rules.
I see Rashford has come out and tweeted against it (in a roundabout sort of way).
That will probably be the start of the high profile players coming out as well
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/20/european-super-league-clubs-face-lawsuit-billions-pull-competition/
European Super League clubs to face lawsuit for billions if they pull out of competition
Withdrawing without consent of other members could lead to legal action, especially if the multi-billion-pound competition collapsed
By Ben Rumsby20 April 2021 • 1:27pm
Manchester United, Liverpool and the other Super League clubs face being sued for billions of pounds if they pull out of the competition, Telegraph Sport has been told.
Amid claims Chelsea and Manchester City were wavering about taking part in the new European tournament, a source at one of the so-called 'Big Six' Premier League sides to sign up to it has confirmed they have penned a "binding agreement" to that effect.
The existence of such agreements, which were made public by Florentino Perez, the president of Real Madrid who has been named chairman of The Super League, could mean clubs being unable to withdraw even if the outrage it has provoked has caused them to think again.
Pulling out without the consent of the other members could leave them open to legal action, especially if that saw the multi-billion-pound competition collapse.
The same source described the last 48 hours since news of the Super League first broke as "a s---show" but expressed surprise at claims any of those involved were considering withdrawing given the consequences of doing so.
A source close to the competition itself said each of the 12 clubs had signed contracts to become an equal shareholder in it alongside another three clubs who had yet to do so.
Aleksander Ceferin, the president of Uefa, earlier issued a direct plea to the owners of the English clubs involved to change their minds about joining the rebel tournament.
Speaking at Uefa's annual congress, he said: "I would like to address the owners of some English clubs. Gentlemen, you have made a huge mistake. Some will say it is greed, others disdain, arrogance, flippancy or complete ignorance of England's football culture. Actually, it doesn't matter.
"What matters is that there is still time to change your mind. Everyone makes mistakes in life. English fans deserve to have you correct your mistake. They deserve respect."
Fair play to Pep Guardiola but I doubt his greedy owners will pay any attention.
"I'm uncomfortable" talking about this competition, which I only found out about on Sunday
"It is not a sport if success is guaranteed or if it doesn't matter when you lose," he told a news conference.
"I have said many times I want a successful Premier League, not just one team at the top.
"Sport is not sport when the relationship between effort and reward does not exist."
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 20, 2021, 03:47:56 PM
Fair play to Pep Guardiola but I doubt his greedy owners will pay any attention.
"I'm uncomfortable" talking about this competition, which I only found out about on Sunday
"It is not a sport if success is guaranteed or if it doesn't matter when you lose," he told a news conference.
"I have said many times I want a successful Premier League, not just one team at the top.
"Sport is not sport when the relationship between effort and reward does not exist."
Every bit of creditable information suggests Man City and Chelsea only have joined for fear of being left behind. They will be the two clubs to break it up.
It's the American owners pushing this.
Quote from: Hound on April 20, 2021, 02:29:29 PM
Premier League statement:
QuoteThe Premier League, alongside The FA, met with clubs today to discuss the immediate implications of the Super League proposal.
The 14 clubs at the meeting unanimously and vigorously rejected the plans for the competition.
The Premier League is considering all actions available to prevent it from progressing, as well as holding those Shareholders involved to account under its rules.
The League will continue to work with key stakeholders including fan groups, Government, UEFA, The FA, EFL, PFA and LMA to protect the best interests of the game and call on those clubs involved in the proposed competition to cease their involvement immediately.
The Premier League would like to thank fans and all stakeholders for the support they have shown this week on this significant issue.
The reaction proves just how much our open pyramid and football community means to people.
I was expecting some more teeth
Yawn. Gonna roll over by the sounds of that
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Is he fúck.
He's more concerned about lining his own pockets and those of his cronies.
PSG and Bayern Munich backing away from this by the looks of it..
https://www.ft.com/content/4f7291cf-1225-4127-8972-6e46cc3f1ce1
Fabrizio Zaccari, head of the Brussels supporters club for Lazio, one of Rome's two big teams, and which has not joined the initiative, said it would ruin the integrity of the sport he loved.
"It will completely distort the system, creating a model that comes close to American show business and only helps the teams that will participate," he said. "But we should not be surprised. For years economic interests have been leading the sport to ruin."
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:24:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Is he fúck.
He's more concerned about lining his own pockets and those of his cronies.
PSG and Bayern Munich backing away from this by the looks of it..
PSG have only backed away because Qatar are their owners and they dont want the World Cup to be impacted.
You can be sure after the WC they will be in it.
Interestingly their president refused to take up the post vacated by Woodward and the Juve president
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Boris and his mates will side with whoever offers them the most money.
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2021, 04:56:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Boris and his mates will side with whoever offers them the most money.
Is that all that matters , have we learned nothing through this pandemic time . It's a tragedy this , American manure , they really are a soulless people.
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 20, 2021, 04:07:40 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 20, 2021, 03:47:56 PM
Fair play to Pep Guardiola but I doubt his greedy owners will pay any attention.
"I'm uncomfortable" talking about this competition, which I only found out about on Sunday
"It is not a sport if success is guaranteed or if it doesn't matter when you lose," he told a news conference.
"I have said many times I want a successful Premier League, not just one team at the top.
"Sport is not sport when the relationship between effort and reward does not exist."
Every bit of creditable information suggests Man City and Chelsea only have joined for fear of being left behind. They will be the two clubs to break it up.
It's the American owners pushing this.
No doubt they are with the long term objective to make theses clubs like the American sport franchises. City with their wealth didn't need to sign up to this pure greed that they did.
Liverpool Fans vs FSG is straight outta Scooby doo
Quote from: larryin89 on April 20, 2021, 05:04:11 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2021, 04:56:44 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 20, 2021, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 20, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/04/20/boris-johnson-greensill-european-super-league-keir-starmer-lockdown/
Boris Johnson is understood to have told the football authorities in the meeting that the Government should "drop a legislative bomb... now" to prevent the breakaway European Super League, according to multiple reports.
The Prime Minister told them "the Government will not stand by while a small handful of owners create a closed shop", a spokesman said following the meeting. "He was clear that no action is off the table and the Government is exploring every possibility, including legislative options, to ensure these proposals are stopped."
Measures under consideration include preventing players of the clubs involved getting work visas and the withdrawal of police funding for match days.
The greedy six missed a trick by not making a donation to the Tory party.
The Tories are afraid of working class voters. Boris Johnson wouldn't dare side with the ESL.
Boris and his mates will side with whoever offers them the most money.
Is that all that matters , have we learned nothing through this pandemic time . It's a tragedy this , American manure , they really are a soulless people.
To money men, yes. That's all that matters.
Chelsea owners first to backdown apparently.
Yeah, the 4 teams still in the CL having doubts or not a part of it...
Brilliant.
Hopefully only the first crack
Man City pulling out too!!
Man city pulling out along with Chelsea?
https://mobile.twitter.com/MartinLipton/status/1384568903515377665
https://mobile.twitter.com/MiguelDelaney/status/1384564828459749383
Man City, Chelsea and PSG the saviours of football.... Can't even be bothered with the roll eyes.
Pool and Barca expected to pull out now.
Arsenal and Spurs standing strong.
Super 12 being renamed the North London Derby
3 of the 12 pull out already? That happened very easily. Something not quite right about that
Ed Woodward resigns
Agnelli away too it seems.
Brilliant news. Hopefully this ESL nonsense collapses and with Woodward gone it will be a case of onwards and upwards.
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 20, 2021, 08:02:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on April 20, 2021, 08:01:58 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 20, 2021, 07:55:22 PM
Ed Woodward resigns
Great news if true.
He was going in the summer apparently anyway
A normally reliable Fabrizio Romano says
has resigned because of the super League situation will remain in his role until the end of the year and then he will leave.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/20/european-super-league-news-premier-teams-meeting-live-latest/
Plans for a breakaway European Super League were left in tatters after Chelsea and Manchester City began preparing documentation to withdraw from the competition.
The rest of the 12 clubs appear set to join them with Ed Woodward resigning as Manchester United's executive vice-chairman.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
If this has told us anything, it's that full stadiums aren't where the money it at for big clubs. It's the huge TV deals. I thought maybe no crowds in stadiums would damage many clubs (and it has), that football in general would get a reality check right across the board.
But obviously the likes of a breakaway league is where the mega megabucks are. So in reality, even if fans boycotted matches, it wouldn't really bring down a breakaway league. Enough people would pay TV subscriptions to make it more than viable.
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
I don't think they need to worry.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 20, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
Looks like for now the proposed European Super League is very unlikely going to come to fruition dead in the water, but unless there is some serious structural change in how top level soccer in Europe is run and owned by various interests, then it's simply delaying another similarly planned competition/breakaway by the end of this decade.
I'm not sure. I was convinced this one would happen. But as this conglomerate of billionaires and big brands were put firmly in their place by public opinion (not FIFA) now, I'm not really sure what it is they can do to change or soften that feeling, even decades from now.
They may try to increase their numbers and devise a multi-tier European league - with some framework for other European clubs to replace struggling members. But it's maybe hard to believe that such and arrangement would be any more lucrative for the "big 12" than being top dogs in their national leagues. And it's harder to believe again that national FAs would sanction a promotion/relegation system to the "super league".
Quote from: BennyCake on April 20, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
If this has told us anything, it's that full stadiums aren't where the money it at for big clubs. It's the huge TV deals. I thought maybe no crowds in stadiums would damage many clubs (and it has), that football in general would get a reality check right across the board.
But obviously the likes of a breakaway league is where the mega megabucks are. So in reality, even if fans boycotted matches, it wouldn't really bring down a breakaway league. Enough people would pay TV subscriptions to make it more than viable.
This isn't entirely true.
Full stadia (especially at premium prices) is a reflection of a competition's elite standing. It's the clearest indication on supply and demand, and I don't think it's possible to claim the latter without the former.
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 20, 2021, 10:16:35 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
I don't think they need to worry.
that is the attitude of the owners of the'Big 6', we're bigger and better than you. You're the exact sort of supporter these owners love.
Quote from: SHEEDY on April 20, 2021, 10:29:06 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 20, 2021, 10:16:35 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
I don't think they need to worry.
that is the attitude of the owners of the'Big 6' owners, we're bigger and better than you. Your the exact sort of supporter these owners love.
You cut me bro. You Cut me deep.
Fair play to the Liverpool players. I'm actually disappointed Woodward is leaving, should be allowed nowhere near the football side of things obviously but the commercial deals the man has brought have been unbelievable.
Quote from: Armagh18 on April 20, 2021, 10:33:31 PM
Fair play to the Liverpool players. I'm actually disappointed Woodward is leaving, should be allowed nowhere near the football side of things obviously but the commercial deals the man has brought have been unbelievable.
Such deals he did are overrated. Manchester United are a global brand and anyone with a clue in business could have arranged similar commercial deals.
All six out now. They filled the togs after the reaction. What did they expect? A bizarre few days.
The cynic in me wouldn't be surprised if the players weren't seeing what way the wind was blowing before coming out so strongly against it. Let's face it most players couldn't give a monkeys who they play for as long as the dough is right, and aren't arsed about the fans (regardless of what they say on their *social media channels) *That are run by PR companies
Are we seriously thinking some of them weren't wondering how much extra they could earn in a Super League?
It looks like the sporting socialists Sky have saved soccer, well saved it for 14 clubs anyway. Hoorah for Sky ;D
Close thread.
Twas an interesting couple of days tho eh 😂
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 20, 2021, 11:39:02 PM
Close thread.
Twas an interesting couple of days tho eh 😂
:)
This debacle is going to become a textbook case of corporate arrogance and cultural cluelessness. And the effects an intense, heartfelt, public backlash can generate.
Gary Neville can dine out on this for years. And he deserves to.
The ESL model was based on Wednesdays ESL and Saturday domestic league. Not enough money in Wednesdaya alone. It would be certain but not enough to give up Saturdays Plus the money that ESL would generate would give them an unfair advantage in the Saturdays, UEFA can jig around with CL money. One positive aspect of ESL was salary caps on players. Barca/Real is a whorehouse.
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 03:43:17 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 20, 2021, 11:39:02 PM
Close thread.
Twas an interesting couple of days tho eh 😂
:)
This debacle is going to become a textbook case of corporate arrogance and cultural cluelessness. And the effects an intense, heartfelt, public backlash can generate.
Gary Neville can dine out on this for years. And he deserves to.
Gary Neville? For what? For having the same opinion as pretty much everyone else?
Pretty sure the fans would have protested anyway, they didn't need Neville or Carragher for that matter to tell them what to do.I saw a clip with James Corden going off on one for 5 or 6 minutes on his show about it, maybe he deserves credit also ? ::)
Yes fair play to the lads, they came out at the start instead of waiting on it collapsing first before posting on Twitter.
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2021, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 20, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
Looks like for now the proposed European Super League is very unlikely going to come to fruition dead in the water, but unless there is some serious structural change in how top level soccer in Europe is run and owned by various interests, then it's simply delaying another similarly planned competition/breakaway by the end of this decade.
I'm not sure. I was convinced this one would happen. But as this conglomerate of billionaires and big brands were put firmly in their place by public opinion (not FIFA) now, I'm not really sure what it is they can do to change or soften that feeling, even decades from now.
They may try to increase their numbers and devise a multi-tier European league - with some framework for other European clubs to replace struggling members. But it's maybe hard to believe that such and arrangement would be any more lucrative for the "big 12" than being top dogs in their national leagues. And it's harder to believe again that national FAs would sanction a promotion/relegation system to the "super league".
Where they though? Or was it the threatened crackdown by the government that really spooked them? The premier League is a massive export for the UK and it looked like the Tories weren't going to sit back and let it happen. I'm just sceptical of the clubs saying they listened to back lash of the fans. They would have surely known that. Fans in the stadium only accounted for something like 4% of profit for these big clubs.
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 20, 2021, 11:39:02 PM
Close thread.
Twas an interesting couple of days tho eh 😂
It's still happening as stands "reshaped".
It'll be a mess now. Champions League with no Real / Barca / and the three Italian teams.
Lots of talking to be done.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 21, 2021, 09:14:26 AM
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on April 20, 2021, 11:39:02 PM
Close thread.
Twas an interesting couple of days tho eh 😂
It's still happening as stands "reshaped".
It'll be a mess now. Champions League with no Real / Barca / and the three Italian teams.
Lots of talking to be done.
How are the fans of these clubs reacting?
Surley a ESL with no English involvement is a bit pointless?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
Everton are owned by a billionaire from overseas, he's not an Everton fan. He's bought the club to make money, there is no logical reason why he or any other premier league would have turned it down. The only clubs who'd say no are fan owned clubs.
Quote from: HiMucker on April 21, 2021, 08:01:48 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2021, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 20, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
Looks like for now the proposed European Super League is very unlikely going to come to fruition dead in the water, but unless there is some serious structural change in how top level soccer in Europe is run and owned by various interests, then it's simply delaying another similarly planned competition/breakaway by the end of this decade.
I'm not sure. I was convinced this one would happen. But as this conglomerate of billionaires and big brands were put firmly in their place by public opinion (not FIFA) now, I'm not really sure what it is they can do to change or soften that feeling, even decades from now.
They may try to increase their numbers and devise a multi-tier European league - with some framework for other European clubs to replace struggling members. But it's maybe hard to believe that such and arrangement would be any more lucrative for the "big 12" than being top dogs in their national leagues. And it's harder to believe again that national FAs would sanction a promotion/relegation system to the "super league".
Where they though? Or was it the threatened crackdown by the government that really spooked them? The premier League is a massive export for the UK and it looked like the Tories weren't going to sit back and let it happen. I'm just sceptical of the clubs saying they listened to back lash of the fans. They would have surely known that. Fans in the stadium only accounted for something like 4% of profit for these big clubs.
Government intervention would have put FIFA in awkward position given their clear stance on governments not being entitled to meddle in football associations and/or competitions. Mind you FIFA do things as they suit. I see David Martin was appointed FIFA vice president yesterday. Hes from Dromore, was removed from the IFA board in 2010 by Nelson McCausland on the basis of his and others handling of the dismissal/resignation of the chief executive. Martin then failed the competency tests that were enacted after a report into that situation when he tried to get back on to the board and failed them twice more only getting back on to the board once they were removed. When asked about the Super League he apparently refused to condemn it and simply deflected questions saying they were for another day
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2021, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
Everton are owned by a billionaire from overseas, he's not an Everton fan. He's bought the club to make money, there is no logical reason why he or any other premier league would have turned it down. The only clubs who'd say no are fan owned clubs.
Everton weren't going to be invited to the closed shop. Neither were Lazio or Monaco. But if it went ahead those teams would be disadvantaged by the cash piles of the ESL teams. So they had to oppose it.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/20/europes-elite-suffer-sports-astounding-humiliation-will-take/
Europe's elite suffer sport's most astounding humiliation - and wounds will take a long time to heal
The European Super League plan blew up in an extraordinary day, leaving the sport more divided than ever... but still intact
SAM WALLACE
CHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER
20 April 2021 • 9:52pm
Fans celebrate outside Stamford Bridge after it was announced that Chelsea Football Club would seek to withdraw from the new European Super League CREDIT: Getty
It was on the Spanish chat show El Chiringuito late on Monday evening that the Real Madrid president Florentino Perez declared with some confidence that, along with his 11 European Super League co-conspirators, he was about to "save football" and within 24 hours many would argue that he had done just that.
Some of the most powerful clubs in the European game, and some of its wealthiest owners had suffered the most astounding humiliation in sporting history. The career of their most ambitious leader, Ed Woodward, the Manchester United executive vice-chairman, and chief architect of this, the game's most divisive breakaway, was hastily curtailed. In Italy, doubt surrounded the future of the equally hawkish Andrea Agnelli, president of Juventus, and erstwhile chairman of the European Club Association whom he had abandoned as recently as Sunday.
In west London, protesting Chelsea fans flocked to an empty Stamford Bridge and sat in Fulham Broadway to block the team bus entering for the fixture against Brighton. The club's legendary former goalkeeper Petr Cech, now technical director, was compelled to break out of the Covid-secure bubble and negotiate from behind a line of police officers. "Give us time!" he could be heard shouting in response to fans' demands. But Roman Abramovich did not need time. From an undisclosed location, on an undisclosed phoneline, the Russian owner pulled the plug on Chelsea's involvement and very soon the European Super League would be no more.
Petr Cech appeals to fans gathered outside Stamford Bridge CREDIT: Getty Images
First Chelsea went, then Manchester City and then Atletico Madrid. Then came news of Woodward's resignation, announced to club staff at Old Trafford – a decision that he had made some time ago, according to sources. Woodward, it was claimed, had planned to leave at the end of 2021 after 16 years at United overseeing the Glazer ownership but decided to make the announcement now. In quick succession, Arsenal, Tottenham Hotspur, Manchester United and Liverpool all withdrew. The public relations experts instructed in five European countries who had so far bullishly stood by the plans were told to stand down. The line went cold. The league was dead.
In Spain, the country's richest man, Perez, the old dictator of Real Madrid - kings of the European Cup, kings of the Champions League - had indeed made history. Perhaps he had even saved football. This had been a furious three-day reckoning and the once secret plans of this wealthy elite of venture capitalists and fossil fuel billionaires, of career football politicians like the old man in charge at the Bernabeu were over. The limits of their power had been exposed. The people had spoken.
Project Big Picture, the proposal to radically change the voting rights and revenue distribution of the Premier League, lasted five days before it was killed at a Premier League shareholders' meeting on a Thursday lunchtime in October. The lifespan of its equally disreputable sibling, the Super League, did not even make it past three days. The power-grab reforms of the wealthiest clubs and their owners, emboldened by losses incurred in the pandemic, have been defeated for a generation and maybe even longer. The game is still imperfect, still riven by inequality, still loaded with debt and jacked up on inflated player wages. But the last five months have told us that some lines cannot be crossed.
An extraordinary day. At 11am, the Premier League shareholders met for the first time with six of their number absent, unthinkable in the past for a collective that has prided itself on the tight discipline of its governance and the collegiate nature of its decision-making. While talks went on for more than three hours, Wolverhampton Wanderers' official account tweeted that maybe it was too late for a bus parade to celebrate their 2019 Premier League title. They had finished seventh that year, behind six clubs who were now breakaway rebels. Southampton's account offered congratulations and pointed out that under those rules Saints were now the 2015 champions. There was a mood of insurrection.
Wolves: 2018/19 Premier League Champions
In the meeting the 14 clubs discussed their next move. Even then they believed that the sheer weight of public feeling – the universal condemnation from politicians, royalty and governing bodies - would be too hard for the six rebel clubs to bear for long. They suspected that City and Chelsea, whose owners regarded their clubs primarily as a public relations exercise, would be the least enthusiastic. There was a quiet confidence that they had won the war already, the question now would be how to win the peace.
It was clear then, as it is now, that the six rebel clubs could not be allowed to come back into the fold without punishment for breaking Rule L9 that prohibits members from entering unsanctioned competitions. But the executives noted that punishment of players and managers would be unfair on individuals who had played no part in the plotting. Any punishment would target specifically those who had knowledge and complicity. How many of them may offer themselves up for sanctions is another question.
What is certain is that the wounds, already raw from Project Big Picture, will take a long time to heal. The most radical among the 14 would like the Premier League to have the kind of regulatory powers conferred on US leagues who can compel an owner to sell a franchise if they are determined to have taken action that contravenes the values and integrity of the competition. That day still seems a long way off, but what is certain is that this was a victory for the Premier League, for its 14-strong super majority, for the likes of Leicester City, Southampton and Crystal Palace.
At the Premier League office there was elation. Getting the 2019-2020 season completed in the teeth of the pandemic had been an exhausting, no-days-off exercise. Then this season, chief executive Richard Masters and his team had been hit by two huge betrayals from the major clubs. This morning, the world's most popular sport league finds itself battered, divided, and with a whole new level of resentment and mistrust among some of its members. Yet, still intact.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56830308
It's finished.........for now.
Quote from: David McKeown on April 21, 2021, 09:35:44 AM
Quote from: HiMucker on April 21, 2021, 08:01:48 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on April 20, 2021, 10:21:12 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on April 20, 2021, 08:42:31 PM
Looks like for now the proposed European Super League is very unlikely going to come to fruition dead in the water, but unless there is some serious structural change in how top level soccer in Europe is run and owned by various interests, then it's simply delaying another similarly planned competition/breakaway by the end of this decade.
I'm not sure. I was convinced this one would happen. But as this conglomerate of billionaires and big brands were put firmly in their place by public opinion (not FIFA) now, I'm not really sure what it is they can do to change or soften that feeling, even decades from now.
They may try to increase their numbers and devise a multi-tier European league - with some framework for other European clubs to replace struggling members. But it's maybe hard to believe that such and arrangement would be any more lucrative for the "big 12" than being top dogs in their national leagues. And it's harder to believe again that national FAs would sanction a promotion/relegation system to the "super league".
Where they though? Or was it the threatened crackdown by the government that really spooked them? The premier League is a massive export for the UK and it looked like the Tories weren't going to sit back and let it happen. I'm just sceptical of the clubs saying they listened to back lash of the fans. They would have surely known that. Fans in the stadium only accounted for something like 4% of profit for these big clubs.
Government intervention would have put FIFA in awkward position given their clear stance on governments not being entitled to meddle in football associations and/or competitions. Mind you FIFA do things as they suit. I see David Martin was appointed FIFA vice president yesterday. Hes from Dromore, was removed from the IFA board in 2010 by Nelson McCausland on the basis of his and others handling of the dismissal/resignation of the chief executive. Martin then failed the competency tests that were enacted after a report into that situation when he tried to get back on to the board and failed them twice more only getting back on to the board once they were removed. When asked about the Super League he apparently refused to condemn it and simply deflected questions saying they were for another day
Its government intervention on FIFA's behalf. They don't mind that.
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
;D
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
;D
Spurs are more entitled to be in any ESL conversation than Arsenal.
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2021, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
;D
Spurs are more entitled to be in any ESL conversation than Arsenal.
Bald men fighting over a comb.
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2021, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
;D
Spurs are more entitled to be in any ESL conversation than Arsenal.
That may well be the case.
It's still a funny statement.
Quote from: trailer on April 21, 2021, 03:51:32 PM
Quote from: J70 on April 21, 2021, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2021, 01:28:23 PM
Stephen Bush, in the New Statesman, described the ESL as follows : "11 of Europe's biggest football clubs and Tottenham Hotspur have announced their intention to establish a new midweek tournament in which the 12 clubs play each other, as a replacement for the Champions League"
;D
Spurs are more entitled to be in any ESL conversation than Arsenal.
Neither should be involved, Why do you think they are more entitled?
As for owners saying sorry.
https://youtu.be/kV9nHcttVnU
For the ESL, a business's position in the Deloitte Football Money League is more important than a team's sporting merit.
(https://soccer.nbcsports.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2021/01/Deloitte-money-list.png)
You would think spurs would spend some money.
Tottenham are a mess
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mGKp_VRozM
I love the way Carragher says Juergen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Bt09B6Z6s
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2021, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
Everton are owned by a billionaire from overseas, he's not an Everton fan. He's bought the club to make money, there is no logical reason why he or any other premier league would have turned it down. The only clubs who'd say no are fan owned clubs.
I don't think he bought Everton to make money.
united have lost their soul as a club. Everton are still in the main a club supported by local people
and I think you underestimate a lot of other clubs just because your own is interested in nothing but the pursuit of more money
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 21, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2021, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
Everton are owned by a billionaire from overseas, he's not an Everton fan. He's bought the club to make money, there is no logical reason why he or any other premier league would have turned it down. The only clubs who'd say no are fan owned clubs.
I don't think he bought Everton to make money.
united have lost their soul as a club. Everton are still in the main a club supported by local people
and I think you underestimate a lot of other clubs just because your own is interested in nothing but the pursuit of more money
Of course he didn't buy Everton to make money. There is zero chance he could achieve that. Most football clubs don't make any profit. It's a hobby for a person who doesn't need all the money he has.
These 'apologies' from club owners to fans are laughable.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/21/european-super-league-news-teams-clubs-withdraw-collapse-live/
As the blame game began over the botched breakaway, it emerged that:
Heavy fines fines or worse could be imposed on those involved for bringing themselves and the Premier League into disrepute.Ed Woodward, Tom Werner, Bruce Buck, Ferran Soriano and Vinai Venkatesham were asked to quit their roles on the league's working groups or face being forcibly removed.The plotters were in danger of being stripped of their right to enter the revamped Champions League through the back door.
They will be back, this has been in motion for years. It will be a bit more palatable the next time
Quote from: BennyCake on April 21, 2021, 09:23:02 PM
These 'apologies' from club owners to fans are laughable.
Would have thought it was pretty clear at this stage they don't really care too much about the existing fans.
They are only really interested in getting new fans.
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 21, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
They will be back, this has been in motion for years. It will be a bit more palatable the next time
Couldn't see it. It's a fundamentally different business model that only works in North America. I have serious doubts that it would ever fly in Europe, the traditions are too deep-rooted.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 02:52:03 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 21, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
They will be back, this has been in motion for years. It will be a bit more palatable the next time
Couldn't see it. It's a fundamentally different business model that only works in No rth America. I have serious doubts that it would ever fly in Europe, the traditions are too deep-rooted.
I think it's down to fundamental cultural differences. The US was a settler colony with huge resources. If something didn't work out the thing to do was move on. It's an extreme philosophy in US capitalism. Walk away and start over.Continuity is less important.
In Europe there is less walking away and more continuity.
In the US system there wouldn't be 3 teams from the NW of England because it is poor. Liverpool is one of the poorest cities in England.
Quote from: seafoid on April 22, 2021, 04:08:01 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on April 22, 2021, 02:52:03 AM
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 21, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
They will be back, this has been in motion for years. It will be a bit more palatable the next time
Couldn't see it. It's a fundamentally different business model that only works in North America. I have serious doubts that it would ever fly in Europe, the traditions are too deep-rooted.
I think it's down to fundamental cultural differences. The US was a settler colony with huge resources. If something didn't work out the thing to do was move on. It's an extreme philosophy in US capitalism. Walk away and start over.Continuity is less important.
In Europe there is less walking away and more continuity..
In the US system there wouldn't be 3 teams fom.the NW onlf England because it is poor.
There's a lot of truth in that.
Quote from: shark on April 21, 2021, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 21, 2021, 09:09:22 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 21, 2021, 09:33:59 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on April 20, 2021, 08:41:02 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 20, 2021, 05:09:08 PM
There is certainly no premier league club who'd have turned down the opportunity to join a super league especially Leeds United so their antics last night were comical.
As for PSG the super league doesn't need them but PSG definitely needs the super league. Once the world cup is out of the way they'd be all over it. Bayern are the one super power who don't need it, biggest club in their league by a mile.
Everton wouldn't have, no way.
They actually generally have a bit of class and know their history and roots
Everton are owned by a billionaire from overseas, he's not an Everton fan. He's bought the club to make money, there is no logical reason why he or any other premier league would have turned it down. The only clubs who'd say no are fan owned clubs.
I don't think he bought Everton to make money.
united have lost their soul as a club. Everton are still in the main a club supported by local people
and I think you underestimate a lot of other clubs just because your own is interested in nothing but the pursuit of more money
Of course he didn't buy Everton to make money. There is zero chance he could achieve that. Most football clubs don't make any profit. It's a hobby for a person who doesn't need all the money he has.
Couldn't be any further from the truth, delusional.
Just fancy that
https://www.ft.com/content/9cfdbbb9-75e4-4374-8214-977a1ddfce68
Real Madrid, whose revenues Pérez said this week have been €400m short of budget over the past two seasons, has an outstanding loan of €575m for the redevelopment of its Bernabéu stadium and a reported €200m in emergency government-backed coronavirus loans
No Super League, but potentially Celtic and Rangers.....
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 21, 2021, 10:48:54 PM
They will be back, this has been in motion for years. It will be a bit more palatable the next time
Definitely, only a matter of time before this happens.
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2021, 09:35:42 AM
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
Politics is getting itself far too concerned with Sport.
Boris Johnson threads on very blurred lines right now.
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2021, 09:35:42 AM
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
I cannot see any reason why either club should get in.
Added to that how or where they would enter the league and would it mean English clubs dropping out of the PL means it would be a non runner
Quote from: Taylor on April 22, 2021, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2021, 09:35:42 AM
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
I cannot see any reason why either club should get in.
Added to that how or where they would enter the league and would it mean English clubs dropping out of the PL means it would be a non runner
Same premise as Cardiff and Swansea - too big for their "native" leagues i.e. sporting merit.
Existing PL teams dropping out has always been a hurdle. The money men were pushing for a 39th game before, why not 39, 40, 41 and 42. Both teams would be a huge addition to the league.
They should have to work their way up. At present I am not sure either would be anything other than relegation material.
Quote from: tiempo on April 22, 2021, 10:09:40 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 22, 2021, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2021, 09:35:42 AM
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
I cannot see any reason why either club should get in.
Added to that how or where they would enter the league and would it mean English clubs dropping out of the PL means it would be a non runner
Same premise as Cardiff and Swansea - too big for their "native" leagues i.e. sporting merit.
Existing PL teams dropping out has always been a hurdle. The money men were pushing for a 39th game before, why not 39, 40, 41 and 42. Both teams would be a huge addition to the league.
Did they get added to the top division?
Quote from: tiempo on April 22, 2021, 10:09:40 AM
Quote from: Taylor on April 22, 2021, 10:00:32 AM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on April 22, 2021, 09:35:42 AM
I'd like to hear a logical reason why the owners of PL clubs would vote for allowing Celtic/Rangers into the league, there isn't any.
I cannot see any reason why either club should get in.
Added to that how or where they would enter the league and would it mean English clubs dropping out of the PL means it would be a non runner
Same premise as Cardiff and Swansea - too big for their "native" leagues i.e. sporting merit.
Swansea, along with Cardiff City, Newport County, Wrexham and Merthyr Town all play in the English Football League as when they were first formed, no Welsh football league had existed. And so, their only option was to join the English Football League – Cardiff doing so in 1920 and Swansea following suit in 1921 .
Nothing to do with being to big for their native leagues.
https://www.ft.com/content/46cc7a08-95c9-44c3-9aea-136ca3ae80b5
. In England, the Premier League is pushing to remove from its subcommittees representatives from Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur, according to someone close to the English top flight.
So Boris met Ed Woodward days before this was announced l not to discuss the super league apparently...
Quote from: seafoid on April 22, 2021, 08:11:31 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/46cc7a08-95c9-44c3-9aea-136ca3ae80b5
. In England, the Premier League is pushing to remove from its subcommittees representatives from Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur, according to someone close to the English top flight.
While they should be punished I doubt they will be. They are too powerful. And I hope they are punished.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/04/22/premier-league-plans-new-rule-expel-clubs-plot-breakaways-super/
The Premier League is set to introduce changes to its rulebook which would prevent any future breakaways by the 'Big Six' rebel clubs.
A global furore around the European Super League fiasco has cemented the determination of top tier executives to agree on new legal powers.
Competition law changes are being considered as part of an internal governance review sparked even before the Project Big Picture domestic coup last autumn.
While new laws are expected to stop short of immediate expulsions, lawyers are understood to be working through options that would be designed to make it impossible for any club to join a breakaway.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/21/government-review-of-english-football-will-look-at-treatment-of-fans
The new Champions League format is just as sinister as the ESL. Based on the "Swiss system" apparently, is all you need to know really. Anything Swiss has to be dodgy.
A 36 team league, but you only play 10 of the other 35 teams. What the f**k is that all about?
Likely means another 4 European nights before Christmas. Surely that means the end of the League Cup?
I don't know about the rest of you, but European competitions are long past being any way interesting. This is just ripping the arse out of it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2023/02/09/european-super-league-organisers-say-new-format-could-contain-80-teams/
European Super League organisers say new format could contain 80 teams
Competition would be based on sporting performance only with no permanent members
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Real Madrid chief Florentino Perez, who was the original ESL president. Photograph: Getty Images
Thu Feb 9 2023 - 10:05
A new-look, open European Super League could contain up to 80 teams in a multi-divisional format, the competition's chief executive has said.
The competition would be based on sporting performance only with no permanent members, A22 chief executive Bernd Reichart told German newspaper Die Welt.
Teams would be guaranteed a minimum of 14 matches per season, Reichart wrote.
A22, a company formed to sponsor and assist with the creation of the Super League, has consulted with nearly 50 European clubs since October last year and developed 10 principles based on that consultation which underpin its plans for a new-look league.
"It's time for a change. It is the clubs that bear the entrepreneurial risk in football. But when important decisions are at stake, they are too often forced to sit idly by on the sidelines as the sporting and financial foundations crumble around them.
"Our talks have also made it clear that clubs often find it impossible to speak out publicly against a system that uses the threat of sanctions to thwart opposition.
"Our dialogue was open, honest, constructive and resulted in clear ideas about what changes are needed and how they could be implemented. There is a lot to do and we will continue our dialogue."
A22 has challenged Uefa and FIFA's right to block the formation of the Super League and sanction the competing clubs in the courts, arguing the governing bodies are abusing a dominant position under EU competition law.
The European Court of Justice is due to give its final ruling in the case later this year, but a non-binding opinion delivered by the Advocate General in the case in December said rules allowing Uefa and Fifa to block the formation of new competitions was compatible with EU law.
Reichart said the new-look Super League would be an open competition, with qualification achieved via performance at national level and with all its teams competing in their domestic leagues.
Those national leagues would remain "the foundation" of the game, Reichart said, and argued that the new Super League would generate new revenues to support the entire pyramid.
The guarantee of a minimum of 14 matches, Reichart says, would provide "stability and predictability" of revenue.
Reichart sets out plans for cost control measures, saying clubs should spend only a fixed percentage of their annual football-related revenue on player salaries and net transfers.
"Club spending must be based solely on the funds generated and not on competitively distorting capital injections," he wrote.
European Super League launches radical new plan for football
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european-super-league-new-plan-b2467762.html
he European Super League (ESL) have launched a radical new plan to overhaul football after a landmark court ruling determined that Uefa had violated EU competition law by forbidding the project initially.
The European Court of Justice ruled that football's governing bodies acted "unlawfully" by blocking the breakaway league – stating that Fifa and Uefa abused their dominant position by forbidding clubs outright to compete in the ESL, although added that the Super League may still not be approved.
Sports development company A22, formed to assist in the creation of the ESL, celebrated the ruling and heralded a new dawn for the sport.
"We have won the right to compete. The Uefa monopoly is over. Football is free," said A22 CEO Bernd Reichart. "Clubs are now free from the threat of sanction and free to determine their own futures."
In addition to the Uefa ban, the Super League's initial plans that were launched in April 2021 went down in flames due to huge backlash from fans – specifically surrounding the breakaway tournament being a 'closed shop' protecting big teams with no promotion or relegation and no indication of a women's competition.
Following the ECJ ruling, the Super League has now relaunched with a new format – proposing men's and women's midweek European competitions with promotion and relegation included and all Super League matches being free to watch.
is the super league now back uefa says they cant block it a22 say they have a new tournament ready to go
I dont see how they can have this new competition and the new champions league format one will probably not survive.
What was the punishment again and what rule did they supposedy break?
Clubs are nothing without their fans.. Would fans go for this?
Quote from: JoG2 on December 21, 2023, 01:38:47 PMClubs are nothing without their fans.. Would fans go for this?
The big objection on the part of the fans (which most of us here, as fans, shared) was the closed shop aspect of it, the idea that the elite teams would be part of it based on reputation alone. They wouldn't have to earn their way in each season.
Looks like they're proposing that teams would have to qualify now, which removes that primary reason for the backlash.
On that basis, there's no way both the CL and this competition could co-exist.
In the case of the PL, the Independent article says that UK law would prevent teams joining it, however.
There is no way you could have two European competitions that are similar you to each other if this super league became a thing the champions would league would have to become a knockout competition to make it radically different from the new super league.
Quote from: J70 on December 21, 2023, 01:56:29 PMLooks like they're proposing that teams would have to qualify now, which removes that primary reason for the backlash.
they are not proposing that. They are proposing that teams
can qualify , for the 3rd competition, and eventually work their way up. But the teams who start in the top competition could have multiple bad seasons domestically and it wouldn't matter as long as they did ok in this competition.
they started off with a closed shop proposal, which was rejected.
now they've returned with as close to that as possible.
if a team like Girona, Villa, or Leverkusen (to use this years high flyers as example) were to have a brilliant season domestically , they still would not be in the top european competition the following year.
I don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Pretty much everyone gets to watch any game they want (Inc 3pm Sat) and chpions league for £50/£60 per year on the firestick.
How will this free to air work? The TV rights for the Premier league alone are astronomical. How is this financed? The likes of the Spanish big hitters are pushing hard as they need the money, where is the money going to come from? Advertising alone? Ticket sales won't cut it
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Issue would be they don't want their sport to become a franchise sport like those American sports?
Florentino Pérez certainly doesn't take no for answer and will keep fighting until this elitist competition gets up and running
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
I think,by and large, it is the match-going fans that object. Think back to how the United fans got their match called off.
The lack of relegation/promotion is part of what is wrong with American sports, imo.
Who actually wants this apartment from the club owners .
Quote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Premier League and Champions League can go and jump then.
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 21, 2023, 08:48:17 PMQuote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Premier League and Champions League can go and jump then.
What do you currently pay for PL and CL?
Quote from: JoG2 on December 21, 2023, 09:02:43 PMQuote from: Armagh18 on December 21, 2023, 08:48:17 PMQuote from: Capt Pat on December 21, 2023, 06:49:17 PMI don't know why the fans in the UK would object. They don't get free premier league or free champions league. At least in Ireland we get free champions and Europa league. The new super league promise free to air for everyone.
As for teams having to qualify every year, well it isn't a problem in American sports. NBA, NFL,MLB and NHL teams come back every year without fear of relegation and nobody complains. It is not an issue.
Premier League and Champions League can go and jump then.
What do you currently pay for PL and CL?
That would be private officer ;)
But seriously, whats Sky/BT a month now? Pure robbery. And fair whack of games aren't on it. Plus that 3pm Saturday bullshit needs gone as well.
Hope the door doesn't hit them on the way out
Whatever private equity crowd is behind this wants to get its hands on the cashflows that currently belong to the EPL. The Bundesliga and the French League have SFA international income. All of the money in European soccer now is in either England or Spain.
if it was going to be midweek games people would just confuse it with the champions league anyway.
Another European giant has said they WON'T be joining.....
https://x.com/OfficialBlues/status/1737862940521382360?s=20 (https://x.com/OfficialBlues/status/1737862940521382360?s=20)
Apparently fan and club support lev3ls for the project have fallen since last time