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1
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 09:55:15 PM »
Look at the pathetic coverage of the three hurling finals this weekend.
That is where a Tier 2 football competition will end up.

Mayo hurlers won at the weekend. How many people travelled down to that compared to the footballers?

The level of coverage was comparable to the level of interest to those teams.

How much coverage did the Wicklow, Waterford, Antrim footballers for example get on the Sunday Game for their games this season?

People claiming lack of media coverage for 2nd tier competitions seem to ignore smaller counties are more or less ignored as it is. At least if they got to a 2tier final they'd actually get some national coverage in the papers/tv

I was in Croke park for Tyrone v Mayo and I didnít even watch it, yet some people want a full Sunday game analysis on it for the 6 people whoíd tune in.

2
General discussion / Re: The Offical Glasgow Celtic thread
« on: August 02, 2021, 09:52:13 PM »
Jesus Joe Hartís career has taken some nose dive.

3
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 08:07:37 PM »
For me the answer is open draw knock-out Senior, Intermediate and Junior All Irelandís, same as clubs.  Lots of lads on here will have proudly won a Junior or Intermediate with their club and itís a stepping stone to the next level.  All Ireland B, Tailteann Cup etc just donít get me interested but if my county was in the Junior level and aiming for an All Ireland final in Croke Park then Iíd be looking forward to it, plus can enjoy the big teams in the Senior as well knocking bells out of each other.  Keep the Provincials as separate competitions and use the leagues to determine who is at what level.

No. This definitely not the answer. We want more evenly matched games. Not less.
Donít think youíve read it right, or else I havenít explained myself - 3 tiers, junior, intermediate and senior = more evenly matched games.

But still open draw knock out? Tyrone draw Dublin 1st round and one of them is out? Season over?
Tyrone get to play a full national league, likely in Div 1, an Ulster Championship (at least one game), and then All Ireland (at least one game), and with the thrill of knock out football and open draws - Iím ready for that, and itís at least one game more than most counties enjoy on a regular basis, plus very few hammerings.  Just my tuppence worth.

Yes, but also no. Iíd be up for that but invert it and give Sam to the league winners.

4
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 07:48:11 PM »
For me the answer is open draw knock-out Senior, Intermediate and Junior All Irelandís, same as clubs.  Lots of lads on here will have proudly won a Junior or Intermediate with their club and itís a stepping stone to the next level.  All Ireland B, Tailteann Cup etc just donít get me interested but if my county was in the Junior level and aiming for an All Ireland final in Croke Park then Iíd be looking forward to it, plus can enjoy the big teams in the Senior as well knocking bells out of each other.  Keep the Provincials as separate competitions and use the leagues to determine who is at what level.

No. This definitely not the answer. We want more evenly matched games. Not less.
Donít think youíve read it right, or else I havenít explained myself - 3 tiers, junior, intermediate and senior = more evenly matched games.

But still open draw knock out? Tyrone draw Dublin 1st round and one of them is out? Season over?

5
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 06:57:53 PM »
For me the answer is open draw knock-out Senior, Intermediate and Junior All Irelandís, same as clubs.  Lots of lads on here will have proudly won a Junior or Intermediate with their club and itís a stepping stone to the next level.  All Ireland B, Tailteann Cup etc just donít get me interested but if my county was in the Junior level and aiming for an All Ireland final in Croke Park then Iíd be looking forward to it, plus can enjoy the big teams in the Senior as well knocking bells out of each other.  Keep the Provincials as separate competitions and use the leagues to determine who is at what level.

No. This definitely not the answer. We want more evenly matched games. Not less.

6
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 05:02:39 PM »
Iím not sure I follow.

Monaghan played Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone this year. Are you saying it would have been much better if they had just played Armagh and Tyrone?

Was the interest in those games less because they played Fermanagh first?

Dunno if this is directed at me or not, but I don't see what Fermanagh got out of the 10 point defeat. Would they not have been better to play teams at their level?
Sorry, I thought your point was that having teams like Fermanagh in the championship is the reason why people are turning off/losing interest.

I donít necessarily agree with that and I canít see how early round mismatches have any bearing on the interest people have in the matches later on in the championship.
People understand that Tyrone are likely to put 20 points on Antrim and may only show a passing interest in that game but thatís not going to put them off the whole championship.

Yes 100% not the whole championship. But there are lots of different issues here.
Mis Matches: People as you say are turned off the mis matches but by not grading teams we miss the chance of some great games at 2nd and 3rd tiers. Like in reality the Championship is only started to get interesting for Dublin, Kerry and probably Mayo. But if we had 8 teams all playing each other in an even format, the quality and the product would be far superior at all levels.

Coverage: Weird one for me. There are hapes of instances of managers denying access to players for interviews. Teams are named with a host of changes. No one had a notion of the Tyrone team on Saturday and when it did come out it wasn't near right. There was changes on the Dublin team as well. Teams moan all the time but they don't help themselves. By all means promote the dung out of the games but Counties shoulder a lot of the blame for me.
GAA should insist that all teams are named 2 days before the game any changes only within the 26 named. And a mandatory press conference with Management and Players available before and after.

Chance to win Sam or Liam: Another red herring. Leitrim, Antrim, Sligo etc have no chance of winning Sam and this is the reality. Put them in a competition that they can realistically win and get promoted from.

There is no rational for continuing with the current Provincial and All Ireland format. It's time we all got real.
Tyrone didn't win their first Ulster title until 1956. That was very shoddy. Should Tyrone have been shunted off into a different competition in the 1940s?

No because I am from Tyrone that would've been wrong.
It's absolutely irrelevant to the debate 65 years on but yes if they weren't good enough then of course they should've been.

It's actually very relevant just don't let your biased views cloud that.

You're going to need to share your definition of the word "biased" as it doesn't make sense in this context. Maybe it means something else in your part of the world?
You can read back on your own comment. "No because I am from Tyrone" Enough said.

Sorry that was actually joke. If you had have read the entire post all 32 words of it (I know, quite a lot) you would've realised that I absolutely think they should've been in a 2nd or 3rd tier.
 

7
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 04:48:01 PM »
Iím not sure I follow.

Monaghan played Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone this year. Are you saying it would have been much better if they had just played Armagh and Tyrone?

Was the interest in those games less because they played Fermanagh first?

Dunno if this is directed at me or not, but I don't see what Fermanagh got out of the 10 point defeat. Would they not have been better to play teams at their level?
Sorry, I thought your point was that having teams like Fermanagh in the championship is the reason why people are turning off/losing interest.

I donít necessarily agree with that and I canít see how early round mismatches have any bearing on the interest people have in the matches later on in the championship.
People understand that Tyrone are likely to put 20 points on Antrim and may only show a passing interest in that game but thatís not going to put them off the whole championship.

Yes 100% not the whole championship. But there are lots of different issues here.
Mis Matches: People as you say are turned off the mis matches but by not grading teams we miss the chance of some great games at 2nd and 3rd tiers. Like in reality the Championship is only started to get interesting for Dublin, Kerry and probably Mayo. But if we had 8 teams all playing each other in an even format, the quality and the product would be far superior at all levels.

Coverage: Weird one for me. There are hapes of instances of managers denying access to players for interviews. Teams are named with a host of changes. No one had a notion of the Tyrone team on Saturday and when it did come out it wasn't near right. There was changes on the Dublin team as well. Teams moan all the time but they don't help themselves. By all means promote the dung out of the games but Counties shoulder a lot of the blame for me.
GAA should insist that all teams are named 2 days before the game any changes only within the 26 named. And a mandatory press conference with Management and Players available before and after.

Chance to win Sam or Liam: Another red herring. Leitrim, Antrim, Sligo etc have no chance of winning Sam and this is the reality. Put them in a competition that they can realistically win and get promoted from.

There is no rational for continuing with the current Provincial and All Ireland format. It's time we all got real.
Tyrone didn't win their first Ulster title until 1956. That was very shoddy. Should Tyrone have been shunted off into a different competition in the 1940s?

No because I am from Tyrone that would've been wrong.
It's absolutely irrelevant to the debate 65 years on but yes if they weren't good enough then of course they should've been.

It's actually very relevant just don't let your biased views cloud that.

You're going to need to share your definition of the word "biased" as it doesn't make sense in this context. Maybe it means something else in your part of the world?

8
General discussion / Re: Lions Tour
« on: August 02, 2021, 04:36:26 PM »
I actually agree that top level rugby can't go on as is, as much as I love watching it, it is shocking brutal, some of the hits are wince inducing and dangerous (the legal ones). Turning pro could be responsible for killing it long term. (But then again I look at hurlers nowadays and think how can this sport keep moving forward when you've now got 2 X 15 sets of players at 6ft 2+ and 16 st and not a dermy to be seen).

An easy solution would be to reduce the number of Subs. We often see front rows completely changed in a game. Reduce the sub option and those players need to become fitter and leaner to survive the 80 mins. Leaner and in theory lighter players would hopefully reduce the force of the collisions. Rugby does recognise the problem, at least internally anyway. But the rule changes etc are simply window dressing. More drastic changes are needed.

9
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: August 02, 2021, 04:32:59 PM »
A few musings.

We were very good in the first half but Monaghan lacked intensity and Tyrone players had time to run and break lines. The Monaghan game plan was all about stopping McCurry. Two men marshalling him at all times. Problem is it left space for others. Even though McCurry was well marked he kept them busy with intelligent runs and game play.

Monaghan of course were a different animal in 2nd half. Pushing up and squeezing Tyrone. Tyrone didn't have many answers, but kicking it long was an option that nearly provided a few goal chances. This will be good practice for what Kerry will do.

The Goalkeeping one is interesting. Morgan and Beggan occupying the space was a great tactic. Morgan for the most part had a very good game, but missing two very similar 45s was criminal. His KOs were for the most part very good and helped to keep ball well at the end to see out the game.
Frees. Anything in McCurry range left or right he should take. Donnelly and McShane missed two very scoreable frees. At this level those are critical. That's 4 points that we can't afford to really give up.

McShane obviously rusty. Felt he was just too casual. He needs to sharpen up.
McGeary had another great game, Logan and Dooher have obviously turned him into a footballer.
Meyler gets through lots of work, but again his footballing skills are lacking. Some poor decisions and passes. He must offer more.
Sludden was brilliant. A real attacking HB with great energy.
Two MFs did well and Tyrone probably edged that battle.
McCurry was fantastic. Marked within an inch of his life he kept them constantly guessing. A real Rolls Royce player.
McKenna and Harte were both quiet. Hoping we get more out of them next time.

There is a lot of positives. Winning an Ulster in their 1st year is a great achievement for this management team. Beat the two other best sides on the way.
They did play a lot of good football. I've enjoyed watching them evolve and get better. Will we win an AI? Probably not but we're playing with a bit more jizz and it's great change from the previous regime.

McCurry missed a very scoreable free too yesterday and has missed them in the past also.

I honestly can't remember him missing one.

was just before half time i think, outside 45 just on the right hand side, hit it high & wide, definitely not scoreable for a forward out of the hands, but scoreable for Morgan if he had more confidence

OK well I am more referring to those frees in and around the D on both sides. If it is on the edge of his range or way out on the left then No, but those 14 -30 meter frees are meat and drink to him.

10
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
« on: August 02, 2021, 04:25:27 PM »
A few musings.

We were very good in the first half but Monaghan lacked intensity and Tyrone players had time to run and break lines. The Monaghan game plan was all about stopping McCurry. Two men marshalling him at all times. Problem is it left space for others. Even though McCurry was well marked he kept them busy with intelligent runs and game play.

Monaghan of course were a different animal in 2nd half. Pushing up and squeezing Tyrone. Tyrone didn't have many answers, but kicking it long was an option that nearly provided a few goal chances. This will be good practice for what Kerry will do.

The Goalkeeping one is interesting. Morgan and Beggan occupying the space was a great tactic. Morgan for the most part had a very good game, but missing two very similar 45s was criminal. His KOs were for the most part very good and helped to keep ball well at the end to see out the game.
Frees. Anything in McCurry range left or right he should take. Donnelly and McShane missed two very scoreable frees. At this level those are critical. That's 4 points that we can't afford to really give up.

McShane obviously rusty. Felt he was just too casual. He needs to sharpen up.
McGeary had another great game, Logan and Dooher have obviously turned him into a footballer.
Meyler gets through lots of work, but again his footballing skills are lacking. Some poor decisions and passes. He must offer more.
Sludden was brilliant. A real attacking HB with great energy.
Two MFs did well and Tyrone probably edged that battle.
McCurry was fantastic. Marked within an inch of his life he kept them constantly guessing. A real Rolls Royce player.
McKenna and Harte were both quiet. Hoping we get more out of them next time.

There is a lot of positives. Winning an Ulster in their 1st year is a great achievement for this management team. Beat the two other best sides on the way.
They did play a lot of good football. I've enjoyed watching them evolve and get better. Will we win an AI? Probably not but we're playing with a bit more jizz and it's great change from the previous regime.

McCurry missed a very scoreable free too yesterday and has missed them in the past also.

I honestly can't remember him missing one.

11
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 03:15:27 PM »
Iím not sure I follow.

Monaghan played Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone this year. Are you saying it would have been much better if they had just played Armagh and Tyrone?

Was the interest in those games less because they played Fermanagh first?

Dunno if this is directed at me or not, but I don't see what Fermanagh got out of the 10 point defeat. Would they not have been better to play teams at their level?
Sorry, I thought your point was that having teams like Fermanagh in the championship is the reason why people are turning off/losing interest.

I donít necessarily agree with that and I canít see how early round mismatches have any bearing on the interest people have in the matches later on in the championship.
People understand that Tyrone are likely to put 20 points on Antrim and may only show a passing interest in that game but thatís not going to put them off the whole championship.

Yes 100% not the whole championship. But there are lots of different issues here.
Mis Matches: People as you say are turned off the mis matches but by not grading teams we miss the chance of some great games at 2nd and 3rd tiers. Like in reality the Championship is only started to get interesting for Dublin, Kerry and probably Mayo. But if we had 8 teams all playing each other in an even format, the quality and the product would be far superior at all levels.

Coverage: Weird one for me. There are hapes of instances of managers denying access to players for interviews. Teams are named with a host of changes. No one had a notion of the Tyrone team on Saturday and when it did come out it wasn't near right. There was changes on the Dublin team as well. Teams moan all the time but they don't help themselves. By all means promote the dung out of the games but Counties shoulder a lot of the blame for me.
GAA should insist that all teams are named 2 days before the game any changes only within the 26 named. And a mandatory press conference with Management and Players available before and after.

Chance to win Sam or Liam: Another red herring. Leitrim, Antrim, Sligo etc have no chance of winning Sam and this is the reality. Put them in a competition that they can realistically win and get promoted from.

There is no rational for continuing with the current Provincial and All Ireland format. It's time we all got real.
Tyrone didn't win their first Ulster title until 1956. That was very shoddy. Should Tyrone have been shunted off into a different competition in the 1940s?

No because I am from Tyrone that would've been wrong.
It's absolutely irrelevant to the debate 65 years on but yes if they weren't good enough then of course they should've been.

12
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 03:00:02 PM »
8 teams in the championship (presumably having to play each other a hape of times to prolong it beyond 3 weeks)? No thank you.

The current format is completely drawn out. Pre Covid it took Connacht about 4 months to run off their province. 3 weekends would've sufficed. 

13
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 02:08:47 PM »
Iím not sure I follow.

Monaghan played Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone this year. Are you saying it would have been much better if they had just played Armagh and Tyrone?

Was the interest in those games less because they played Fermanagh first?

Dunno if this is directed at me or not, but I don't see what Fermanagh got out of the 10 point defeat. Would they not have been better to play teams at their level?
Sorry, I thought your point was that having teams like Fermanagh in the championship is the reason why people are turning off/losing interest.

I donít necessarily agree with that and I canít see how early round mismatches have any bearing on the interest people have in the matches later on in the championship.
People understand that Tyrone are likely to put 20 points on Antrim and may only show a passing interest in that game but thatís not going to put them off the whole championship.

Yes 100% not the whole championship. But there are lots of different issues here.
Mis Matches: People as you say are turned off the mis matches but by not grading teams we miss the chance of some great games at 2nd and 3rd tiers. Like in reality the Championship is only started to get interesting for Dublin, Kerry and probably Mayo. But if we had 8 teams all playing each other in an even format, the quality and the product would be far superior at all levels.

Coverage: Weird one for me. There are hapes of instances of managers denying access to players for interviews. Teams are named with a host of changes. No one had a notion of the Tyrone team on Saturday and when it did come out it wasn't near right. There was changes on the Dublin team as well. Teams moan all the time but they don't help themselves. By all means promote the dung out of the games but Counties shoulder a lot of the blame for me.
GAA should insist that all teams are named 2 days before the game any changes only within the 26 named. And a mandatory press conference with Management and Players available before and after.

Chance to win Sam or Liam: Another red herring. Leitrim, Antrim, Sligo etc have no chance of winning Sam and this is the reality. Put them in a competition that they can realistically win and get promoted from.

There is no rational for continuing with the current Provincial and All Ireland format. It's time we all got real.

14
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 01:16:55 PM »
Iím not sure I follow.

Monaghan played Fermanagh, Armagh and Tyrone this year. Are you saying it would have been much better if they had just played Armagh and Tyrone?

Was the interest in those games less because they played Fermanagh first?

Dunno if this is directed at me or not, but I don't see what Fermanagh got out of the 10 point defeat. Would they not have been better to play teams at their level?


15
GAA Discussion / Re: Would you be in favour of a second tier?
« on: August 02, 2021, 12:13:23 PM »

Look I take your point. I sat down and watched Down v Monaghan on Friday. By chance just happened onto it, but my point is valid. Tyrone have no Hurling pedigree. They have very little interest in Hurling. I watched the Sunday game last night and went to bed after the football. RTE Editors would be castigated if they dedicated 15 mins to those 4th and 5th tier matches. There is very little demand unfortunately.

How are you not getting this? The only footballing equivalent to Tyrone hurling is Kilkenny, and they are not the type of county that's at issue here. Offaly football and hurling is now broadly similar, in that we're ranked around the middle of the pack in both. Our football matches against Louth and Kildare got 100 times the exposure of all our Christy Ring Cup matches combined. Yet the interest level in the two teams, both domestically and nationally, is about the same.

Leave it so then. Lets all tune in to watch Tyrone put 20 points on Antrim. Do you think Pairc Chaoimh will be able to hold the crowd for the Clare V Waterford in the Football?
If teams are good enough by all means they should get the chance but the reality is this. Dublin are now playing in an All Ireland SF and no one has has come close to them Kerry likewise. It's a cake walk for them and totally unfair against other counties like Tyrone or Donegal who have to battle through a competitive Ulster.
Offaly aren't good enough in either codes. Their footballers got far too much exposure. Sure they have great pedigree but at this moment in time it's not happening. Their players train just as hard as Dublin but they are not good enough. All the column inches and TV exposure in Ireland will not change that. The more the GAA offers up these mis matches the more people will turn off.

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