Antrim Hurling

[btdtgtt]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Firstly - Brocky is entirely correct.
Schools are a massive missing link in our hurling development.
For a number of reasons GAA can no longer be pushed and developed my teachers - so that's where funding should go.
NOT in development squads which actually are a base for the already better hurlers - but to develop!
Let those better hurlers play with their clubs and continue to progress as they have - put the resource into developing talent in schools!
After all, nearly every main county has a "hurling college" - we need to push resources here -why do we think we can do without it!


NAG - if the Glens are a "hurling stronghold" then why would we invest there?
Surely the investment is needed in areas which need development?
What "special treatment" are you talking about? Does this "special treatment" not need money?


Finally, and not totally related, but I think we need to get real about our actual playing population across Antrim. We might like to think we are a big county - but in terms of actual playing numbers we are small fry!
Take out the Unionists/Protestants across the whole county, take out the areas of Belfast and mid-Antrim which are not traditional GAA areas - then factor in the fact that we are a two-code county - what you are left with is one of the smaller playing populations in Ireland I think?

Seriously are you not picking this up or what?

I said we need a review to point out to the rest of the country what most hurling people already know, i.e. the areas of deficiency.

NA is a stronghold yet most schools are getting limited coaching time, imagine how much stronger it could be with proper structured coaching plans in place.

Belfast is a special case and that means investment on a large scale....... I thought that was self explanatory.

Until there is a complete look at the structures within the county as a whole we will continue to make bad decisions and invest the limited resource that we have in areas that we always have done.

Whoops! My bad then - sorry read it the wrong way around if u get my drift!

[btdtgtt]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Firstly - Brocky is entirely correct.
Schools are a massive missing link in our hurling development.
For a number of reasons GAA can no longer be pushed and developed my teachers - so that's where funding should go.
NOT in development squads which actually are a base for the already better hurlers - but to develop!
Let those better hurlers play with their clubs and continue to progress as they have - put the resource into developing talent in schools!
After all, nearly every main county has a "hurling college" - we need to push resources here -why do we think we can do without it!


NAG - if the Glens are a "hurling stronghold" then why would we invest there?
Surely the investment is needed in areas which need development?
What "special treatment" are you talking about? Does this "special treatment" not need money?


Finally, and not totally related, but I think we need to get real about our actual playing population across Antrim. We might like to think we are a big county - but in terms of actual playing numbers we are small fry!
Take out the Unionists/Protestants across the whole county, take out the areas of Belfast and mid-Antrim which are not traditional GAA areas - then factor in the fact that we are a two-code county - what you are left with is one of the smaller playing populations in Ireland I think?

Seriously are you not picking this up or what?

I said we need a review to point out to the rest of the country what most hurling people already know, i.e. the areas of deficiency.

NA is a stronghold yet most schools are getting limited coaching time, imagine how much stronger it could be with proper structured coaching plans in place.

Belfast is a special case and that means investment on a large scale....... I thought that was self explanatory.

Until there is a complete look at the structures within the county as a whole we will continue to make bad decisions and invest the limited resource that we have in areas that we always have done.

Spot on, but we've been saying it for years, its doing it that is the main stumbling block... so many people have put the effort in for so long but it loses it's momentum for some reason or another and its back to the start again....  recording developments and finding out what works best for each area is needed as one shoe does not fit all areas....

I still believe we've too many clubs in Belfast, if there were less clubs, but more teams within the clubs that are coaching correctly and with intensity then we'd produce better teams.... Dublin teams have 4/5 senior teams within some of the bigger clubs with a development and coaching plan in place to ensure that the style of hurling is brought through from juvenile up... what we have are some clubs with 6/7 core players and then lads with little or no interest playing for that team and not getting any better, those lads with little interest to put the effort in but still want to play can do that with the junior teams ..... once we get over losing our identities then Antrim will produce better hurlers in Belfast..

Ah yes - the problem everyone knows - but no-one wants to confront!

I was hoping the sanction system might alleviate this but who knows.

[NAG1]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Where is the loads of information at then?

Ulster Council will be able to tell you the number of coaching hours put in by their staff in Antrim and will be able to tell you numbers of kids involved in clubs and number of tournaments played each year etc etc

[theskull1]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

You'll not entice a kid to play and stay playing hurling on the back of a few primary school visits. Not saying more wouldn't help but finance is always a factor.
Its a tough sport to develop as it needs significant numbers of coaches with the right knowledge to develop the skills and long-term interest in those players.

Some boys wouldn't be that interested in coaching courses no matter how many chances the are to get to them and learn a bit

[NAG1]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

You'll not entice a kid to play and stay playing hurling on the back of a few primary school visits. Not saying more wouldn't help but finance is always a factor.
Its a tough sport to develop as it needs significant numbers of coaches with the right knowledge to develop the skills and long-term interest in those players.

Some boys wouldn't be that interested in coaching courses no matter how many chances the are to get to them and learn a bit

+1

But my thinking would be give them more opportunity to play the game at school through employed coaches and then try to convert this to clubs numbers etc

Hopefully improving both number of kids involved and the quality of said kids.

I know it seems simplistic but suppose we need to start somewhere. Not deriding or bemoaning the good work that is already going in, just looking to supplement it.

[Justanopinion]

I don't think anyone should knock the work that has went into the schools in recent times and with the success of Cross and Passion, St Mary's CBS and lately St Louis we are starting to bear fruit but there is still a long way to go.

For me it's always about continual improvement, never rest on what we might have achieved.  Continue the work started in the schools and look for new ways to improve.

[Brocky]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

You'll not entice a kid to play and stay playing hurling on the back of a few primary school visits. Not saying more wouldn't help but finance is always a factor.
Its a tough sport to develop as it needs significant numbers of coaches with the right knowledge to develop the skills and long-term interest in those players.

Some boys wouldn't be that interested in coaching courses no matter how many chances the are to get to them and learn a bit

If you don't get the kids interested at schools, where else do you get them.
I agree it will take a lot of finances to get the adequate level of coaches on a regular basis but what better chance is there of capturing them into the gaa.

[Dualta Duane]

btdtgtt - your numbers don't stack re smallest playing population...
2011 census - Klkenny (county not town) 95k, West Belfast (on its own, not whole county) 93k

investment in Belfast and lots of it - 5/10 year plans maybe academy type models / dev squads coaches the whole heap. More regular leagues/ Go Games at u8/10 all year long and properly organised in advance.
- best example of this is Davitts, for the first time in years theyve kids on dev squads and compete in every single Go Games, Competition (maybe somtimes amalgamated) from p1/2 to under 14. they have put huge work into capturing the kids at very early age and now 30 or so all from Lower Falls playing U6/8/10.
investment in SW Antrim were little hurling happens  - nothing happening under age at all!! Creggan & LochMor the exception been totally ignored by the hurling fraternity forever.
Let Nth Antrim crack on as they seem to have their house in order in terms of developing hurling.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

btdtgtt - your numbers don't stack re smallest playing population...
2011 census - Klkenny (county not town) 95k, West Belfast (on its own, not whole county) 93k

investment in Belfast and lots of it - 5/10 year plans maybe academy type models / dev squads coaches the whole heap. More regular leagues/ Go Games at u8/10 all year long and properly organised in advance.
- best example of this is Davitts, for the first time in years theyve kids on dev squads and compete in every single Go Games, Competition (maybe somtimes amalgamated) from p1/2 to under 14. they have put huge work into capturing the kids at very early age and now 30 or so all from Lower Falls playing U6/8/10.
investment in SW Antrim were little hurling happens  - nothing happening under age at all!! Creggan & LochMor the exception been totally ignored by the hurling fraternity forever.
Let Nth Antrim crack on as they seem to have their house in order in terms of developing hurling.

Hes taking into account the fact that 3/4 of the county of antrim are unionist then you have people within that quarter that are nationalist who dont have any interest in the GAA and then some who have no interest in hurling.

It does limit the playing resources in this county more so than any other in Ireland.

Theres also a big catchment in the SW who dont even cater for hurling in Cargin, Moneyglass area. How many hurlers are slipping through the net there. Cargin recently started up camogie after a long lapse and in their first season won the Antrim junior championship and ulster shield. It has went from strength to strength and are now producing under age teams from U8 to U14.

It can be done if the right people are in place and the will and desire are also there.

[btdtgtt]

btdtgtt - your numbers don't stack re smallest playing population...
2011 census - Klkenny (county not town) 95k, West Belfast (on its own, not whole county) 93k

investment in Belfast and lots of it - 5/10 year plans maybe academy type models / dev squads coaches the whole heap. More regular leagues/ Go Games at u8/10 all year long and properly organised in advance.
- best example of this is Davitts, for the first time in years theyve kids on dev squads and compete in every single Go Games, Competition (maybe somtimes amalgamated) from p1/2 to under 14. they have put huge work into capturing the kids at very early age and now 30 or so all from Lower Falls playing U6/8/10.
investment in SW Antrim were little hurling happens  - nothing happening under age at all!! Creggan & LochMor the exception been totally ignored by the hurling fraternity forever.
Let Nth Antrim crack on as they seem to have their house in order in terms of developing hurling.

Key word - PLAYING population. You've actually just proved my point.
You are quoting the population figures, the point I'm making is the number of these people who actually PLAY our sports!
We are fixated by quoting the number of people who live in our city/county.
But there's settlements much smaller - but with bigger playing populations.

Great work going on in Davitts, but there are more Clubs seeing diminishing numbers.
That's just fact - look at the number of amalgamations teams / sanctions / non-fielding teams.
Bigger clubs just about fielding - when before they had 2 teams at certain ages!
If you think the playing population is healthy - you are quite simply wrong!

Also, some schools deserve great credit - Trojan effort.
That said, sometimes it's a result of a strong club supplying them.
Agree fully - it's more than a matter of throwing a few coaches in now and again.
Firstly - I'm talking about primary schools - it can be too late by secondary school age.
Massive effort needed and co-ordinated to last - not done on a whim.
Sustained throughout years - not in blocks between different schools.
Inter-class leagues in primary schools - and inter-school leagues.
Give the kids a hurl, a sliotar, a jersey, a trophy, let them play in Casement (?!) - you get the drift!
Quality trained coaches infused throughout every single school, and no child left wondering where is nearest Club might be. Push them to it! Get them on a bus if need be! The coaches in the schools liaise with the Clubs etc!

[theskull1]

I still believe we've too many clubs in Belfast, if there were less clubs, but more teams within the clubs that are coaching correctly and with intensity then we'd produce better teams.... Dublin teams have 4/5 senior teams within some of the bigger clubs with a development and coaching plan in place to ensure that the style of hurling is brought through from juvenile up... what we have are some clubs with 6/7 core players and then lads with little or no interest playing for that team and not getting any better, those lads with little interest to put the effort in but still want to play can do that with the junior teams ..... once we get over losing our identities then Antrim will produce better hurlers in Belfast..

Important to remember here that St Johns and Rossa have by far the best record at juvenile level over the past lot of years. In the context of that fact, what do you think creating super clubs would do? Doesn't sound like a good or practical solution that'll develop the game. It'll do the opposite in my opinion.

More kids playing the game at the appropriate skill level for their age has to be the goal. Not filtering out kids who can't cut it in a super club system. 

I think the quality of coaching in clubs right across the county should be made the focus with a view to understanding the gaps and working with clubs to develop their coaching resources and providing them with support in the early to medium stages of any planned initiative. The downfall of anything changing could be the disease of apathy which plagues this part of the world. 

Brocky
In regard to the work that has went on in Secondary level Schools.
I've never seen a school, 'develop develop' a hurler. They arrive at the school gates with whatever skill level they have developed with their clubs and the schools will 'make hay' n the back of that IMO. That's not saying that experiencing success with a school team doesn't bring them up a notch because I'm sure it does and credit to the work that is done with them as they put in serious effort. But the non successful schools/school years will go through the motions and do next to nothing to develop their players IMO.

[Milltown Row2]

I still believe we've too many clubs in Belfast, if there were less clubs, but more teams within the clubs that are coaching correctly and with intensity then we'd produce better teams.... Dublin teams have 4/5 senior teams within some of the bigger clubs with a development and coaching plan in place to ensure that the style of hurling is brought through from juvenile up... what we have are some clubs with 6/7 core players and then lads with little or no interest playing for that team and not getting any better, those lads with little interest to put the effort in but still want to play can do that with the junior teams ..... once we get over losing our identities then Antrim will produce better hurlers in Belfast..

Important to remember here that St Johns and Rossa have by far the best record at juvenile level over the past lot of years. In the context of that fact, what do you think creating super clubs would do? Doesn't sound like a good or practical solution that'll develop the game. It'll do the opposite in my opinion.

More kids playing the game at the appropriate skill level for their age has to be the goal. Not filtering out kids who can't cut it in a super club system. 

I think the quality of coaching in clubs right across the county should be made the focus with a view to understanding the gaps and working with clubs to develop their coaching resources and providing them with support in the early to medium stages of any planned initiative. The downfall of anything changing could be the disease of apathy which plagues this part of the world. 

Brocky
In regard to the work that has went on in Secondary level Schools.
I've never seen a school, 'develop develop' a hurler. They arrive at the school gates with whatever skill level they have developed with their clubs and the schools will 'make hay' n the back of that IMO. That's not saying that experiencing success with a school team doesn't bring them up a notch because I'm sure it does and credit to the work that is done with them as they put in serious effort. But the non successful schools/school years will go through the motions and do next to nothing to develop their players IMO.

When there only 5/6 kids at under 8's up its very difficult to embed good coaching with a view to organising games and keeping interest there... This view of getting good coaches at all levels within a club is brilliant but ultimately flawed and each fecking coach believes his way is better than a standard approach and sticking to the system usually falls flat

[btdtgtt]

I still believe we've too many clubs in Belfast, if there were less clubs, but more teams within the clubs that are coaching correctly and with intensity then we'd produce better teams.... Dublin teams have 4/5 senior teams within some of the bigger clubs with a development and coaching plan in place to ensure that the style of hurling is brought through from juvenile up... what we have are some clubs with 6/7 core players and then lads with little or no interest playing for that team and not getting any better, those lads with little interest to put the effort in but still want to play can do that with the junior teams ..... once we get over losing our identities then Antrim will produce better hurlers in Belfast..

Important to remember here that St Johns and Rossa have by far the best record at juvenile level over the past lot of years. In the context of that fact, what do you think creating super clubs would do? Doesn't sound like a good or practical solution that'll develop the game. It'll do the opposite in my opinion.

More kids playing the game at the appropriate skill level for their age has to be the goal. Not filtering out kids who can't cut it in a super club system. 

I think the quality of coaching in clubs right across the county should be made the focus with a view to understanding the gaps and working with clubs to develop their coaching resources and providing them with support in the early to medium stages of any planned initiative. The downfall of anything changing could be the disease of apathy which plagues this part of the world. 

Brocky
In regard to the work that has went on in Secondary level Schools.
I've never seen a school, 'develop develop' a hurler. They arrive at the school gates with whatever skill level they have developed with their clubs and the schools will 'make hay' n the back of that IMO. That's not saying that experiencing success with a school team doesn't bring them up a notch because I'm sure it does and credit to the work that is done with them as they put in serious effort. But the non successful schools/school years will go through the motions and do next to nothing to develop their players IMO.

True skull. Agree all round.
But the same point I made with development squads applies to Rossa & St Johns.
Their real measure is how they progress hurlers to senior level.

I think the point myself and MR2 were making (and in no way suggesting Rossa & St Johns are "super clubs") is that we lose far 2 many young hurlers because they are at clubs which do not pursue the game. Maybe their club doesn't field, or they get fed up getting stuffed every week - so they fall away from the sport altogether. They are a loss to everyone in Antrim - not just to their club. We're not sure how to deal with it - but we are sure it's happening far 2 often!

[NAG1]

He can't be 'effin' serious can he 

[Brocky]

He can't be 'effin' serious can he 

That would explain the betting then. Just trying to get their expenses back.