Antrim Hurling

[NAG1]

Can't see people lining up to be involved with the squad at the moment.

Would it not be a case of the county secretary selecting a squad if necessary to fulfill fixtures?

[paddyjohn]

Can't see people lining up to be involved with the squad at the moment.

Would it not be a case of the county secretary selecting a squad if necessary to fulfill fixtures?

It's a no lose situation I think, we compete in or maybe even win the CR and its job done, get beat in the 1st round & sure it was expected.

Not sure what way it works to be honest.

[Brocky]

My opinion, if some of the existing team stay, bring in someone with a bit of experience, have the squad once a week, the rest of the time with their clubs and give CR a go. Maybe bring a wee bit of pride back into the shirt.
Let's face it even before PJ it was a shambles and his reign certainly didn't help it.
This would give a better foundation for future years.

Apart from that, the new county exec need to improve things largely with underage squads to set a better standard moving forward. This is where the main focus should be.
Plus have a look at the Roscommon way of doing things. Division 4 to 1 means they must be doing something right.

[NAG1]

My opinion, if some of the existing team stay, bring in someone with a bit of experience, have the squad once a week, the rest of the time with their clubs and give CR a go. Maybe bring a wee bit of pride back into the shirt.
Let's face it even before PJ it was a shambles and his reign certainly didn't help it.
This would give a better foundation for future years.

Apart from that, the new county exec need to improve things largely with underage squads to set a better standard moving forward. This is where the main focus should be.
Plus have a look at the Roscommon way of doing things. Division 4 to 1 means they must be doing something right.

Not that this is the way to have arrived at it, but I think this gives us a serious unprecedented opportunity to have a full and open analysis of where we are and how to improve things.

New Executive should be using this time to look at the system top to bottom and have a costing of what is required coach wise from grass roots through to senior level. This is then ammunition to take to Croke park and say that we have been neglected long enough in terms of employed bodies on the ground.

Yes we have a lack of committed volunteers but I think if a proper and well financed plan was in place that everyone could see and buy into then we might have a chance of turning some of those volunteers into committed coaches/ helpers in the new system.

Hope we dont just stick our heads in the sand and appoint a new manager and expect something to change from simply doing this.

[btdtgtt]

My opinion, if some of the existing team stay, bring in someone with a bit of experience, have the squad once a week, the rest of the time with their clubs and give CR a go. Maybe bring a wee bit of pride back into the shirt.
Let's face it even before PJ it was a shambles and his reign certainly didn't help it.
This would give a better foundation for future years.

Apart from that, the new county exec need to improve things largely with underage squads to set a better standard moving forward. This is where the main focus should be.
Plus have a look at the Roscommon way of doing things. Division 4 to 1 means they must be doing something right.

Not that this is the way to have arrived at it, but I think this gives us a serious unprecedented opportunity to have a full and open analysis of where we are and how to improve things.

New Executive should be using this time to look at the system top to bottom and have a costing of what is required coach wise from grass roots through to senior level. This is then ammunition to take to Croke park and say that we have been neglected long enough in terms of employed bodies on the ground.

Yes we have a lack of committed volunteers but I think if a proper and well financed plan was in place that everyone could see and buy into then we might have a chance of turning some of those volunteers into committed coaches/ helpers in the new system.

Hope we dont just stick our heads in the sand and appoint a new manager and expect something to change from simply doing this.

Fully agree with the last bit - we can't just keep appointing new managers and thinking everything will change.

However there seems to be a perception that we  get some sort of raw deal financially. All monies from Croke Park are set out and justified - otherwise every county would be screaming the house down!
And on that point - every single other county in Ireland with plans going to Croke park - and again they need to be justified.
I refer you back to Dr John McSparran and his time in the media and telling us all what he wanted from Croke Park - join the queue! And head back up the road!

I guess what I'm getting at is two-fold:
1) We are not under-funded or being given a raw deal from Croke park regarding money
2) Do not expect some "ach sure it's those lovely Antrim folk" windfall.

[Na Glinntí Glasa]

Also why would croke park throw perfectly good money into a county thats clearly in a complete mess.

If anything they will want to come and look at it and see what the hell has gone wrong.

many people have given up on county hurling in Antrim judging by the poor support it receives, this saga will have pushed people even farther down the track.

[NAG1]

Also why would croke park throw perfectly good money into a county thats clearly in a complete mess.

If anything they will want to come and look at it and see what the hell has gone wrong.

many people have given up on county hurling in Antrim judging by the poor support it receives, this saga will have pushed people even farther down the track.

This would be the point of the analysis, to identify the areas that need improvement and a costing to show how much a plan would take to fix these areas.

[btdtgtt]

Also why would croke park throw perfectly good money into a county thats clearly in a complete mess.

If anything they will want to come and look at it and see what the hell has gone wrong.

many people have given up on county hurling in Antrim judging by the poor support it receives, this saga will have pushed people even farther down the track.

This would be the point of the analysis, to identify the areas that need improvement and a costing to show how much a plan would take to fix these areas.

Not sure what exact areas you are talking about?

Development squads?
Administrations?
Competition structures?
Coaching?
Fixture making?

Some of these are already financed by Croke Park grants - how effective they are made - is up to Antrim - there's no heavenly being going to give us a blank cheque & master-plan ahead of 31 other counties.
For example great reviews of some development squad work from the dedication of likes of Ciaran Kearney which is fantastic now - but the true measure of these is how many players go on to raise Antrim hurling at senior level.
Other areas are not financial issues - just the fine mess we are in ourselves - and we can only get out of ourselves - or not!

[NAG1]

Also why would croke park throw perfectly good money into a county thats clearly in a complete mess.

If anything they will want to come and look at it and see what the hell has gone wrong.

many people have given up on county hurling in Antrim judging by the poor support it receives, this saga will have pushed people even farther down the track.

This would be the point of the analysis, to identify the areas that need improvement and a costing to show how much a plan would take to fix these areas.

Not sure what exact areas you are talking about?

Development squads?
Administrations?
Competition structures?
Coaching?
Fixture making?

Some of these are already financed by Croke Park grants - how effective they are made - is up to Antrim - there's no heavenly being going to give us a blank cheque & master-plan ahead of 31 other counties.
For example great reviews of some development squad work from the dedication of likes of Ciaran Kearney which is fantastic now - but the true measure of these is how many players go on to raise Antrim hurling at senior level.
Other areas are not financial issues - just the fine mess we are in ourselves - and we can only get out of ourselves - or not!

All of these and more, that is what an analysis would be for?

[Brocky]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

[NAG1]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

[btdtgtt]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Firstly - Brocky is entirely correct.
Schools are a massive missing link in our hurling development.
For a number of reasons GAA can no longer be pushed and developed my teachers - so that's where funding should go.
NOT in development squads which actually are a base for the already better hurlers - but to develop!
Let those better hurlers play with their clubs and continue to progress as they have - put the resource into developing talent in schools!
After all, nearly every main county has a "hurling college" - we need to push resources here -why do we think we can do without it!


NAG - if the Glens are a "hurling stronghold" then why would we invest there?
Surely the investment is needed in areas which need development?
What "special treatment" are you talking about? Does this "special treatment" not need money?


Finally, and not totally related, but I think we need to get real about our actual playing population across Antrim. We might like to think we are a big county - but in terms of actual playing numbers we are small fry!
Take out the Unionists/Protestants across the whole county, take out the areas of Belfast and mid-Antrim which are not traditional GAA areas - then factor in the fact that we are a two-code county - what you are left with is one of the smaller playing populations in Ireland I think?

[NAG1]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Firstly - Brocky is entirely correct.
Schools are a massive missing link in our hurling development.
For a number of reasons GAA can no longer be pushed and developed my teachers - so that's where funding should go.
NOT in development squads which actually are a base for the already better hurlers - but to develop!
Let those better hurlers play with their clubs and continue to progress as they have - put the resource into developing talent in schools!
After all, nearly every main county has a "hurling college" - we need to push resources here -why do we think we can do without it!


NAG - if the Glens are a "hurling stronghold" then why would we invest there?
Surely the investment is needed in areas which need development?
What "special treatment" are you talking about? Does this "special treatment" not need money?


Finally, and not totally related, but I think we need to get real about our actual playing population across Antrim. We might like to think we are a big county - but in terms of actual playing numbers we are small fry!
Take out the Unionists/Protestants across the whole county, take out the areas of Belfast and mid-Antrim which are not traditional GAA areas - then factor in the fact that we are a two-code county - what you are left with is one of the smaller playing populations in Ireland I think?

Seriously are you not picking this up or what?

I said we need a review to point out to the rest of the country what most hurling people already know, i.e. the areas of deficiency.

NA is a stronghold yet most schools are getting limited coaching time, imagine how much stronger it could be with proper structured coaching plans in place.

Belfast is a special case and that means investment on a large scale....... I thought that was self explanatory.

Until there is a complete look at the structures within the county as a whole we will continue to make bad decisions and invest the limited resource that we have in areas that we always have done.

[Brocky]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Where is the loads of information at then?

[Milltown Row2]

Agree with nag1. But in top of that we need coaches going into the schools.
I don't know but I would like to know, how many schools in Antrim have coaches visit them to encourage the kids.
I know rural parishes like loughgiel dunloy Cushendall will take care of this generally themselves but what about Belfast Ballymena etc..
Is there any information available on this.

There is loads of information on this, but my point is North Antrim is a hurling strong hold and deserves more investment, Belfast is the second city and for loads of different reasons requires special treatment.

Yes there loads of good coaches doing lots of good work, but they need help guidance and support. They also need a plan to work toward, maybe that is a bit far fetched for Antrim but it just seems logical to me.

Firstly - Brocky is entirely correct.
Schools are a massive missing link in our hurling development.
For a number of reasons GAA can no longer be pushed and developed my teachers - so that's where funding should go.
NOT in development squads which actually are a base for the already better hurlers - but to develop!
Let those better hurlers play with their clubs and continue to progress as they have - put the resource into developing talent in schools!
After all, nearly every main county has a "hurling college" - we need to push resources here -why do we think we can do without it!


NAG - if the Glens are a "hurling stronghold" then why would we invest there?
Surely the investment is needed in areas which need development?
What "special treatment" are you talking about? Does this "special treatment" not need money?


Finally, and not totally related, but I think we need to get real about our actual playing population across Antrim. We might like to think we are a big county - but in terms of actual playing numbers we are small fry!
Take out the Unionists/Protestants across the whole county, take out the areas of Belfast and mid-Antrim which are not traditional GAA areas - then factor in the fact that we are a two-code county - what you are left with is one of the smaller playing populations in Ireland I think?

Seriously are you not picking this up or what?

I said we need a review to point out to the rest of the country what most hurling people already know, i.e. the areas of deficiency.

NA is a stronghold yet most schools are getting limited coaching time, imagine how much stronger it could be with proper structured coaching plans in place.

Belfast is a special case and that means investment on a large scale....... I thought that was self explanatory.

Until there is a complete look at the structures within the county as a whole we will continue to make bad decisions and invest the limited resource that we have in areas that we always have done.

Spot on, but we've been saying it for years, its doing it that is the main stumbling block... so many people have put the effort in for so long but it loses it's momentum for some reason or another and its back to the start again....  recording developments and finding out what works best for each area is needed as one shoe does not fit all areas....

I still believe we've too many clubs in Belfast, if there were less clubs, but more teams within the clubs that are coaching correctly and with intensity then we'd produce better teams.... Dublin teams have 4/5 senior teams within some of the bigger clubs with a development and coaching plan in place to ensure that the style of hurling is brought through from juvenile up... what we have are some clubs with 6/7 core players and then lads with little or no interest playing for that team and not getting any better, those lads with little interest to put the effort in but still want to play can do that with the junior teams ..... once we get over losing our identities then Antrim will produce better hurlers in Belfast..