China Coronavirus

[sid waddell]

Regardless of which side your on ... I reckon this is worth 30 minutes of anyones time even if its just to test their own current beliefs about this whole hashter (including how they perceive 'the other side')

Paul Kingsnorth sees the vaccine wars as symptomatic of a bigger division between two fundamentally different world views: he calls them "thesis" and "antithesis." When it comes to Covid, "thesis" is the establishment viewpoint: that lockdowns are needed to contain the virus, masks work, vaccines are safe, and people who question them are wrongheaded or worse. When Covid-19 first struck, Kingsnorth took the "thesis" viewpoint.

But over the last few months, his perspective changed. As he  in today's UnHerd, the crystallising moment arrived when he woke up to the news that the Austrian government had 'interned an entire third of the population'. This move, he writes, sent a 'chill down my spine'.

The "antithesis" view can be summed up as: lockdowns are not needed, masks do not work, the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are being oversold, vaccine passports will not only fail but further segregate society, and in the near future we can expect Giradian scapegoating of the unvaccinated. In other words, we are positioned on the precipice of a slippery slope that leads towards increasingly draconian biopolitical control measures, the grip of which is unlikely to release even once the pandemic is over.

In a conversation with Freddie Sayers on this week's UnHerdTV, he explains this division and the bigger epistemological divides it reveals. "People are arguing about vaccines," he says, "but they're really under the surface arguing about what kind of person you are if you have taken these things, whether you're a good or a bad person, or clean or unclean one".

In Kingsnorth's view, each of us has a line that cannot be crossed. And his has now been reached.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4SEIY0kLpuYK2nziSgLPsI?si=yTAWV8x6QDu6qMtZB7dWvw&utm_source=native-share-menu

Kingsnorth is a nut. He is a former environmental campaigner (he protested against motorway building in England back in the 1990s) now turned evangelical Christian.

In 2009 he wrote with relish of a "cleansing catastrophe" in the earth's climate and eco-systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncivilization_(manifesto)

And he has carried that "thinking" through to Covid, calling the virus a "delicious sign". These are not the words of somebody who values human life or avoiding mass human suffering.

And it is entirely in keeping with the carry on of the rapture fiends which infest evangelical Christianity.

Whatever sort of a world Kingsnorth wants to live in, I don't want to live in.

"Rip it up and start again" might be a good song by Orange Juice but a serious view of the world it is most definitely not. The world doesn't work that way. It is nihilism.

George Monbiot, who is a former friend of his, has been damning about his turn to the nihilist right.

[J70]

moderna made 14 million profit in 2019 so far this year it's about 11 billion for 3 quarters

That they're on a similar course to 2019 is relevant to what I said, how, exactly?

For once he's right.

Net income up to end Sept is plus ~ $7 billion.
Same period in 2020 was minus ~ $0.5 billion.
Same period in 2019 was minus ~ $0.4 billion.
Same period in 2018 was minus ~ $0.25 billion.

That's pretty hideous.


Of course, as you say, is that relevant to whether the vaccine is redundant or just less effective?

Actually, he IS right on the profit.

Million... billion.

My bad.

That still said... relevance?

Pandemics are a godsend for companies that can produce vaccines. Is that not the way the free market, (formerly?) worshipped by the GOP, is supposed to work?

[Gmac]

I see in Australia they have "voluntary "quarantine camps surrounded by barbed wire fencing to lock up the natives , lockdowns and removal of rights of unvaccinated all over Europe, if you said any of this could happen 6 months ago you would be called conspiracy theorist or tin foil hat guy , what will be next I wonder , All the while double and triple jabbed people keep testing positive.

[Rossfan]

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-agrees-to-introduce-nphet-rules-on-household-visits-and-hospitality-41116329.html

[Blowitupref]

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cabinet-agrees-to-introduce-nphet-rules-on-household-visits-and-hospitality-41116329.html

Whos going to run with 50% capacity for upcoming events that has booked out at 100%. They'll all likely be cancelled now

The nightclubs are sure to be very busy this weekend as the last until at least a month.

[imtommygunn]

What is the general consensus on that guy Stephen Donnelly in the south? Anything I read he doesn't come across very well.

[RadioGAAGAA]

I see in Australia they have "voluntary "quarantine camps surrounded by barbed wire fencing to lock up the natives , lockdowns and removal of rights of unvaccinated all over Europe, if you said any of this could happen 6 months ago you would be called conspiracy theorist or tin foil hat guy , what will be next I wonder , All the while double and triple jabbed people keep testing positive.

While vaccinated people are testing positive, they are largely staying out of hospital.

Unless you want a collapsing health service - then you'd best consider that while the vaccines aren't as good as hoped*, they still are making a massive massive difference to mortality rate.



*They were as good as hoped (including being infectious) until delta broke that part of them

[Rossfan]

What is the general consensus on that guy Stephen Donnelly in the south? Anything I read he doesn't come across very well.

He knew everything when he was in opposition.
FF is his 2nd or 3rd party.
Most folk don't think a whole pile of him now that he has to do something other than moan.

[Armagh18]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

[lenny]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

There's a good bit of truth in that. The health service is designed to be at full capacity in the winter when the flu surges along with other respiratory illnesses. It's often been at stretching point before but it's just about able to cope and the flu vaccine is a big help in reducing patient numbers. The numbers with covid are potentially way beyond that stretching point an that's the issue.

[sid waddell]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.

[Captain Obvious]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.

Especially if it turns out to be a variant of mild symptoms.

[HiMucker]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.

Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?

[Cunny Funt]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it’s feck all to do with covid but the government’s lack of investment for years.

76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.

Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?

Of those that can be vaccinated (above the age of 12) 90% of the population are fully vaccinated.

[sid waddell]

How are people accepting going back to restrictions when everyman and his dog has been vaccinated? If the shit show of a health service is overrun at this stage it's feck all to do with covid but the government's lack of investment for years.

76% have been vaccinated. Which means 24% haven't. That's 1.25 million people.

Now Omicron changes the game again.

People will accept restrictions because they are necessary.

If Omicron wasn't around, restrictions over Christmas would still be necessary.

With Omicron around, the token restrictions that were announced last night will be like a chocolate fireguard.

The next week will change the game.

Sid is that 76% of the total population, or adult population?

The total population - which is the only figure that matters.

The adult population figure is strictly for media consumption.