Author Topic: Down Club Hurling & Football  (Read 6109690 times)

6th sam

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27630 on: January 26, 2017, 02:27:29 PM »
Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

Would agree , a witch hunt is the last thing this county needs. Not that healthy debate and strongly stating positions shouldn't be encouraged, as listening and considering such views in the past has helped us to a position where we have great leagues compared to most other counties.
A few points:
1. Wobblers point that clubs should learn to play without players has merit, and is the key to the argument . It would solve most of the causes of stress for clubs around fixtures. There is only 1 major problem...it penalises clubs with county players , relatively speaking. This problem is easily solved by ensuring weekly fixtures in a premier graded competition, when county players are available, but also have weekly fixtures in a secondary competition when county players aren't available. This system already works effectively cf the international player management system in Rugby.
2. Taking away the July holiday break effectively disadvantages clubs with a high percentage of players who work in construction(usually rural clubs) , and clubs with smaller squads. The vast majority of club players are recreational and if they are Normal human beings they will want and are entitled to a summer holiday. Players historically have planned holidays and weddings etc for the July fortnight for years, and to pull the plug on this without at least 1 full year's notice( to respect those who have already made wedding/holiday plans) is unfair .
3. Div3/4 starts on the 31st march and for teams with early championship exit (50%) their season is finished in just over 4 months on the 10th August. Leaving to a nearly 8 month off season! This is unthinkable not least because , it's depriving potential county players in the lower divisions the opportunity to develop in a competitive environment in the months when they want to play :August/September/October .
By retaining the July fortnight in the lower divisions , you will be extending the player season by at least 1 month....regardless of any decision tonight that's a "no- brainer"
4.though I can empathise with Kilcoo and loughinisland who had difficulties in the last 2 seasons.the proposed new rules around league winners should prevent such a scenario developing again.
5. I think one rule which everyone should agree to , is a simple one, that CCC may rearrange league numbers Eg 10 team division 1, at the end of any season , on the basis of clubs end of year league position. Too often we have had good proposals which have had to be delayed 12 months to give clubs  a full season's warning and preparation  ( as should be done for July fortnight, if agreed) .

Congrats to clubs like Ballymartin and Kilcoo who have forwarded proposals to improve leagues in the in the past couple of years. The worry I have re tonight's meeting is not the heated debate (which is healthy and will undoubtedly unearth answers) but rather unmandated , apathetic or misinformed club delegates voting in poor fixture decisions .
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 02:32:57 PM by 6th sam »

Smurfy123

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27631 on: January 26, 2017, 05:59:26 PM »
It will be very interesting in what comes out of tonight's county board meeting.The leagues are not bad the way they are so should continue that way.
Downup you hardly expect the Club Down representatives to do the job for the good of their health?I would imagine it would be a time consuming role which would take up a good bit of time.

thewobbler

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27632 on: January 26, 2017, 06:15:33 PM »
It will be very interesting in what comes out of tonight's county board meeting.The leagues are not bad the way they are so should continue that way.
Downup you hardly expect the Club Down representatives to do the job for the good of their health?I would imagine it would be a time consuming role which would take up a good bit of time.

This is a great point Smurfy.

There will never be a perfect league system when it's on the same timeline as the county championship, but by God we were close to it in 2009 with 10 team leagues, starred matches as required, quickfire end of season playoffs, and a July break.

Why in fucks name we had to f**k with all that I don't know.

Smurfy123

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27633 on: January 26, 2017, 06:26:43 PM »
Your right wobbler we near had it perfected
It's like this tonight play throughout the year with county players missing some important league games or have a stop start year with county players playing every game

I'll take the first one please

Club managers can't have it both ways

supersub

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27634 on: January 27, 2017, 09:12:23 AM »
Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

Would agree , a witch hunt is the last thing this county needs. Not that healthy debate and strongly stating positions shouldn't be encouraged, as listening and considering such views in the past has helped us to a position where we have great leagues compared to most other counties.
A few points:
1. Wobblers point that clubs should learn to play without players has merit, and is the key to the argument . It would solve most of the causes of stress for clubs around fixtures. There is only 1 major problem...it penalises clubs with county players , relatively speaking. This problem is easily solved by ensuring weekly fixtures in a premier graded competition, when county players are available, but also have weekly fixtures in a secondary competition when county players aren't available. This system already works effectively cf the international player management system in Rugby.
2. Taking away the July holiday break effectively disadvantages clubs with a high percentage of players who work in construction(usually rural clubs) , and clubs with smaller squads. The vast majority of club players are recreational and if they are Normal human beings they will want and are entitled to a summer holiday. Players historically have planned holidays and weddings etc for the July fortnight for years, and to pull the plug on this without at least 1 full year's notice( to respect those who have already made wedding/holiday plans) is unfair .
3. Div3/4 starts on the 31st march and for teams with early championship exit (50%) their season is finished in just over 4 months on the 10th August. Leaving to a nearly 8 month off season! This is unthinkable not least because , it's depriving potential county players in the lower divisions the opportunity to develop in a competitive environment in the months when they want to play :August/September/October .
By retaining the July fortnight in the lower divisions , you will be extending the player season by at least 1 month....regardless of any decision tonight that's a "no- brainer"
4.though I can empathise with Kilcoo and loughinisland who had difficulties in the last 2 seasons.the proposed new rules around league winners should prevent such a scenario developing again.
5. I think one rule which everyone should agree to , is a simple one, that CCC may rearrange league numbers Eg 10 team division 1, at the end of any season , on the basis of clubs end of year league position. Too often we have had good proposals which have had to be delayed 12 months to give clubs  a full season's warning and preparation  ( as should be done for July fortnight, if agreed) .

Congrats to clubs like Ballymartin and Kilcoo who have forwarded proposals to improve leagues in the in the past couple of years. The worry I have re tonight's meeting is not the heated debate (which is healthy and will undoubtedly unearth answers) but rather unmandated , apathetic or misinformed club delegates voting in poor fixture decisions .

1 - If it was easily solved we wouldn't have the problem, so no doubt it isn't easy at all
2 - We are seeing more and more players not using the July fortnight for holidays, while having weddings, weekends away etc throughout the year so this window isn't used as widely for holidays as it has been previously
3 - If you wait until the end of the season to implement for the next season how is promotion and relegation ever going to work? Clubs won't know if they are definitely up or down if they are in that situation if the following year structure isn't decided until the leagues are finished?

The league structures and fixtures aren't the worst in the world. We actually don't have much call for the CPA in Down when you see the reasons it is set up i.e. clubs going 10/12 weeks without a game etc. After all that, any word how it went last night?

mightymad

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27635 on: February 01, 2017, 10:13:24 AM »
Its been very quiet on here last few days, up the hill must be looking for a new gym now that they realise they are miles behind any other club in county. Even the likes of Downpatrick (no disrespect) have got a new gym for their players to get in the best possible shape to compete with top teams. BH still think there hard men walking around with their disco weights. its about time to wake up and smell the cookie crumble.

Ed Hardy

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27636 on: February 01, 2017, 06:01:11 PM »
Another good display from Madine yesterday for uuj. Surely Eamon Burns must call him up to the county panel! Any ideas on the team to face Fermanagh this weekend?

supersub

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27637 on: February 02, 2017, 08:27:53 AM »
Deafening silence from the Co Board meeting last week. Anything of note?

SHEEDY

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27638 on: February 04, 2017, 09:23:18 PM »
that was a complete shambles, getting beat by 9 points at home by fermanagh is a total embarrassment. kick outs were a disaster, we  hardly won a ball in the middle third. fermanagh won at their ease and really should have won by more. playing like that we'll go another year without winning a match, a 2nd relegation in a row beckons.
nil satis nisi optimum

Mourne Rover

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27639 on: February 04, 2017, 10:11:38 PM »
It's a long time since Down supporters were leaving a home game against Fermanagh with 15 minutes to go, and it must be even longer since we last lost 13 league and championship matches in a row, but we probably should not have been surprised.

Apart from a decent spell in the second quarter, our display was very much in line with last season's performances - disjointed, sporadic with no lack of effort but largely directionless.

Cunningham's kick-outs were initially reasonable but disintegrated after the break and handed easy possession to Fermanagh. Defence was not our worst sector as the two McGoverns stuck to their task but we still conceded far too regularly under pressure.

Carr and Flynn tried hard but looked like half backs who were pressed into midfield and our attack appeared to have very little shape. Davidson had a couple of flashes of quality but there was not much else happening and, while Magee and Havern tried hard, they presented very little threat and it was difficult to understand other options from the bench were not given a chance in their place before the end.

It is going to be very tough to lift the squad for the trip to Clare, but, if we do not get anything in Ennis, there is a serious danger of drawing a blank for the rest of the league programme. These are difficult days for Down followers and signs of optimism remain hard to detect.




urbangael

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27640 on: February 04, 2017, 10:36:07 PM »
The lack of structure, organisation and awareness from our management is alarming. Down looked like a bunch of strangers that were playing together for the first time. Serious issues with kick outs. Not switched on at free kicks and general lack of game plan is not something one would not expect to see from a county side.

Some might say the players just aren't there but the lack of passion and negative body language from management seems to have spread to the players which isn't surprising. Lots of fans also questioning team selection.... the players on the bench looked like better options to start the match. I'd be very surprised if we dont get relegated.

As for the co board.... well that's just a massive mess! Time to sort priorities lads....forget about asking for money for a while and sending lads on jollies. Not many folk want to fund an unsuccessful team. I think the club down direct debit will have to bite the dust! Wee Pete or Jim McCorry don't look like bad options now recruitment panel!!!

OgraAnDun

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27641 on: February 04, 2017, 10:42:58 PM »
An easy way of getting through to the final round of the CB's "Last Man Standing" competition is just to pick whoever is playing us every week.

clowry13

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27642 on: February 04, 2017, 11:09:23 PM »
Jim McCorry got sacked after gaining permotion to division 1. Down GAA in a total shambles at all levels. Leaving Newry tonight after watching probably the worst Down Team performance I have ever seen. Bad times getting hammered by Fermanagh in your home patch.

Verticalball

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27643 on: February 05, 2017, 01:35:00 AM »
Not been on this in a while but feel the need to get involved. Firstly I feel that Fermanagh are more capable of an Ulster title this yr. Having said that, it's obviously about making the most of what is available to you. I'm sure that many would remember the fallout with blaney and mcartan pre championship 1994? Pete McGrath realised that he needed to get everyone on board.

Therefore, I have a question for you all - would a half fit Marty Clarke be on the Dublin panel? I think we all know the answer. At 29 we have had 2 seasons to appreciate his footballing talents.

Management is not all about dictatorship. Proper man management is sorely lacking, therefore fans are being deprived of watching one of the best players of the modern era pull on a Down jersey. Now we can argue all day long about this but we all know what should be happening.  As a lifelong Down supporter I am dismayed by the status quo.

imagine

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Re: Down Club Hurling & Football
« Reply #27644 on: February 05, 2017, 02:06:09 AM »
Not been on this in a while but feel the need to get involved. Firstly I feel that Fermanagh are more capable of an Ulster title this yr. Having said that, it's obviously about making the most of what is available to you. I'm sure that many would remember the fallout with blaney and mcartan pre championship 1994? Pete McGrath realised that he needed to get everyone on board.

Therefore, I have a question for you all - would a half fit Marty Clarke be on the Dublin panel? I think we all know the answer. At 29 we have had 2 seasons to appreciate his footballing talents.

Management is not all about dictatorship. Proper man management is sorely lacking, therefore fans are being deprived of watching one of the best players of the modern era pull on a Down jersey. Now we can argue all day long about this but we all know what should be happening.  As a lifelong Down supporter I am dismayed by the status quo.
What are you really talking about here? A half-fit MC wouldn't make the Dublin junior team.As he said tonight his days of County Football are over.What a waste! Marty and  brother JC are kings of the Bull-sh-t! It's going to be painful.
     Anyone going to Ennis?