Down Club Hurling & Football

Started by Lecale2, November 10, 2006, 12:06:55 AM

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Mourne Red

Quote from: mightymad on January 25, 2017, 09:11:13 AM
All you deluded supporters are only good for running down our county, all sit on their back sides every game waiting to read match reports to try figure out who played well and what we should change about our team. its about time yous all got of your high horse and got out and support our county to help motivate our lads in what we need so much, to help give down players that drive again that they need. RANT OVER

Only good for running down the County?? I'm sure a right few of the posters are doing there bit for the County by coaching or playing Gaelic for their local club... Right to be aggrieved by lack of funding for there clubs with the hard work put in in clubs.. End of the day, Clubs do a hell of a lot for County board and if they feel screwed over they have a right to vent their frustrations. Strong club scene = Strong County team

oileain blues

Mighty mad as someone who played 19 yrs in senior football and for the past 20 yrs being involved in running my club I take great exception to your comments, I accept our county is not in good shape on and of the field but  I believe we are improving , albeit slowly but like a previous post a strong club = a strong county,.
The closed fortnight needs to be re introduced, regular football is good and any postponed matches should be played within the 10 days as per county bye law , I think the proposal regarding postponements by Ballymartin has merit, and I would like to see any decisions regarding
refixing matches be agreed by the clubs and not by the ccc who have shown in the past to be totally inept.The voting on county issues should be made solely by the club representatives with only the county chairman having a vote from the top table , should be an interesting meeting tonight.

thewobbler

Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

downup

From my experience in club committees and at the few county board meetings I was in attendance there never really seemed to be any thought given to the plight of the club player. Fixtures were tailored around the county team and the club players will just accept whatever is left. It always amazed me that the fixture setters where able to put fixtures at the start of the year on a Friday evening at 6.30 or 6.45pm which was in a lot of cases physically impossible for players to meet and be properly warmed up to play a match. What was ever wrong with Sunday games until the longer evenings?? Then towards the end of the year they fire in a number of Saturday games and to hell with anyone that works. Off course at county board meetings these fixtures are ratified at the beginning of the year so don't come crying through the year if they don't suit you. I don't agree with clubs chopping and changing to suit themselves but how about suiting the majority instead of the few!!
On another note, I have been told that this New Club Down position is a paid role - I mean are we for real!!! Paying someone to fundraise. Who is funding this or does it come out of the proceeds from future club Down members? Was the position advertised? Are there targets set for job performance? etc etc. If this is true then any thought I had of becoming a member is out the window!

DownFanatic

Quote from: thewobbler on January 26, 2017, 09:25:49 AM
Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

Clubs calling off games for spurious reasons is one of our main problems.
In the past I think our leagues have been run pretty well.
Would still like the July fortnight left free of games.

Down Follower

Is the July fortnight that big of a deal!! In my experience, players, and management, take holidays at varying times throughout the year. Most try and avoid championship fixtures ok, but they dont go for July fortnight.

mightymad

Yes Agree with most statement made regarding my previous rant, but I also feel the county board need to be investing money back into clubs to help provide clubs with new facilities, gyms etc. I see in which many clubs have now got new quality gyms for their players to have great use of. But the likes of Ballyholland them poor lads gym is in an awful state no wonder whenever you walk into gym tech in newry you see most of their team.

DownFanatic

Quote from: Down Follower on January 26, 2017, 10:53:48 AM
Is the July fortnight that big of a deal!! In my experience, players, and management, take holidays at varying times throughout the year. Most try and avoid championship fixtures ok, but they dont go for July fortnight.

In my experience players generally book for that fortnight as they know they will have it free. It is the only time from the season starts that we definitely know is free from fixtures.

thewobbler

Quote from: mightymad on January 26, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Yes Agree with most statement made regarding my previous rant, but I also feel the county board need to be investing money back into clubs to help provide clubs with new facilities, gyms etc. I see in which many clubs have now got new quality gyms for their players to have great use of. But the likes of Ballyholland them poor lads gym is in an awful state no wonder whenever you walk into gym tech in newry you see most of their team.

Have fun with your fishing fella.

mightymad

Quote from: thewobbler on January 26, 2017, 12:13:05 PM
Quote from: mightymad on January 26, 2017, 11:11:08 AM
Yes Agree with most statement made regarding my previous rant, but I also feel the county board need to be investing money back into clubs to help provide clubs with new facilities, gyms etc. I see in which many clubs have now got new quality gyms for their players to have great use of. But the likes of Ballyholland them poor lads gym is in an awful state no wonder whenever you walk into gym tech in newry you see most of their team.

Have fun with your fishing fella.
Fishing?? its stating the facts, you must be from up the hill cant face the fact once again, "ballyholland men don't need fancy gym equipment" LOL enjoy another successful year. #PoachersArmy

6th sam

#27610
Quote from: thewobbler on January 26, 2017, 09:25:49 AM
Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

Would agree , a witch hunt is the last thing this county needs. Not that healthy debate and strongly stating positions shouldn't be encouraged, as listening and considering such views in the past has helped us to a position where we have great leagues compared to most other counties.
A few points:
1. Wobblers point that clubs should learn to play without players has merit, and is the key to the argument . It would solve most of the causes of stress for clubs around fixtures. There is only 1 major problem...it penalises clubs with county players , relatively speaking. This problem is easily solved by ensuring weekly fixtures in a premier graded competition, when county players are available, but also have weekly fixtures in a secondary competition when county players aren't available. This system already works effectively cf the international player management system in Rugby.
2. Taking away the July holiday break effectively disadvantages clubs with a high percentage of players who work in construction(usually rural clubs) , and clubs with smaller squads. The vast majority of club players are recreational and if they are Normal human beings they will want and are entitled to a summer holiday. Players historically have planned holidays and weddings etc for the July fortnight for years, and to pull the plug on this without at least 1 full year's notice( to respect those who have already made wedding/holiday plans) is unfair .
3. Div3/4 starts on the 31st march and for teams with early championship exit (50%) their season is finished in just over 4 months on the 10th August. Leaving to a nearly 8 month off season! This is unthinkable not least because , it's depriving potential county players in the lower divisions the opportunity to develop in a competitive environment in the months when they want to play :August/September/October .
By retaining the July fortnight in the lower divisions , you will be extending the player season by at least 1 month....regardless of any decision tonight that's a "no- brainer"
4.though I can empathise with Kilcoo and loughinisland who had difficulties in the last 2 seasons.the proposed new rules around league winners should prevent such a scenario developing again.
5. I think one rule which everyone should agree to , is a simple one, that CCC may rearrange league numbers Eg 10 team division 1, at the end of any season , on the basis of clubs end of year league position. Too often we have had good proposals which have had to be delayed 12 months to give clubs  a full season's warning and preparation  ( as should be done for July fortnight, if agreed) .

Congrats to clubs like Ballymartin and Kilcoo who have forwarded proposals to improve leagues in the in the past couple of years. The worry I have re tonight's meeting is not the heated debate (which is healthy and will undoubtedly unearth answers) but rather unmandated , apathetic or misinformed club delegates voting in poor fixture decisions .

Smurfy123

It will be very interesting in what comes out of tonight's county board meeting.The leagues are not bad the way they are so should continue that way.
Downup you hardly expect the Club Down representatives to do the job for the good of their health?I would imagine it would be a time consuming role which would take up a good bit of time.

thewobbler

Quote from: Smurfy123 on January 26, 2017, 05:59:26 PM
It will be very interesting in what comes out of tonight's county board meeting.The leagues are not bad the way they are so should continue that way.
Downup you hardly expect the Club Down representatives to do the job for the good of their health?I would imagine it would be a time consuming role which would take up a good bit of time.

This is a great point Smurfy.

There will never be a perfect league system when it's on the same timeline as the county championship, but by God we were close to it in 2009 with 10 team leagues, starred matches as required, quickfire end of season playoffs, and a July break.

Why in fucks name we had to f**k with all that I don't know.

Smurfy123

Your right wobbler we near had it perfected
It's like this tonight play throughout the year with county players missing some important league games or have a stop start year with county players playing every game

I'll take the first one please

Club managers can't have it both ways

supersub

Quote from: 6th sam on January 26, 2017, 02:27:29 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on January 26, 2017, 09:25:49 AM
Could be interesting. Could also be a witch hunt.

I'm hoping one or two clubs try to lead everyone towards a sensible resolution (and a sensible realisation that county players need to focus solely on county football at certain periods in the calendar) (and a sensible realisation that clubs need protecting from themselves, and that trying to get a match postponed because a few players are absent, should result in large fines and points deductions). Basically a realisation that the show must go on.

My worry is that a lynch mob might form instead. If that happens we could end up with a short season of approximately no games. An OTT prediction perhaps, but if the tail tries too often to wag the dog, eventually the dog might just go for lie down.

Would agree , a witch hunt is the last thing this county needs. Not that healthy debate and strongly stating positions shouldn't be encouraged, as listening and considering such views in the past has helped us to a position where we have great leagues compared to most other counties.
A few points:
1. Wobblers point that clubs should learn to play without players has merit, and is the key to the argument . It would solve most of the causes of stress for clubs around fixtures. There is only 1 major problem...it penalises clubs with county players , relatively speaking. This problem is easily solved by ensuring weekly fixtures in a premier graded competition, when county players are available, but also have weekly fixtures in a secondary competition when county players aren't available. This system already works effectively cf the international player management system in Rugby.
2. Taking away the July holiday break effectively disadvantages clubs with a high percentage of players who work in construction(usually rural clubs) , and clubs with smaller squads. The vast majority of club players are recreational and if they are Normal human beings they will want and are entitled to a summer holiday. Players historically have planned holidays and weddings etc for the July fortnight for years, and to pull the plug on this without at least 1 full year's notice( to respect those who have already made wedding/holiday plans) is unfair .
3. Div3/4 starts on the 31st march and for teams with early championship exit (50%) their season is finished in just over 4 months on the 10th August. Leaving to a nearly 8 month off season! This is unthinkable not least because , it's depriving potential county players in the lower divisions the opportunity to develop in a competitive environment in the months when they want to play :August/September/October .
By retaining the July fortnight in the lower divisions , you will be extending the player season by at least 1 month....regardless of any decision tonight that's a "no- brainer"
4.though I can empathise with Kilcoo and loughinisland who had difficulties in the last 2 seasons.the proposed new rules around league winners should prevent such a scenario developing again.
5. I think one rule which everyone should agree to , is a simple one, that CCC may rearrange league numbers Eg 10 team division 1, at the end of any season , on the basis of clubs end of year league position. Too often we have had good proposals which have had to be delayed 12 months to give clubs  a full season's warning and preparation  ( as should be done for July fortnight, if agreed) .

Congrats to clubs like Ballymartin and Kilcoo who have forwarded proposals to improve leagues in the in the past couple of years. The worry I have re tonight's meeting is not the heated debate (which is healthy and will undoubtedly unearth answers) but rather unmandated , apathetic or misinformed club delegates voting in poor fixture decisions .

1 - If it was easily solved we wouldn't have the problem, so no doubt it isn't easy at all
2 - We are seeing more and more players not using the July fortnight for holidays, while having weddings, weekends away etc throughout the year so this window isn't used as widely for holidays as it has been previously
3 - If you wait until the end of the season to implement for the next season how is promotion and relegation ever going to work? Clubs won't know if they are definitely up or down if they are in that situation if the following year structure isn't decided until the leagues are finished?

The league structures and fixtures aren't the worst in the world. We actually don't have much call for the CPA in Down when you see the reasons it is set up i.e. clubs going 10/12 weeks without a game etc. After all that, any word how it went last night?