What is it about the GAA? The hierarchy is absolutely obsessed with rule changes, most of which are stupid and have made the game worse - like the mark. But worse than that is the media. If they are not suggesting that we need to ban the handpass, or go to 13 aside, it's that football is too physical and hurling is loosing its physicality. There was more coverage to rule changes over the weekend than there was to the actual games. It would melt your head.
The GAA has watched football turn into a form of Rugby league over the years. Coaches like Harte, McGuinness, Walsh, have had success with ultra defence formations. The GAA are caught in the headlights trying to see a way back to the beautiful game.
If they want to stop Rugby League type stuff
GET RID OF OR SEVERELY LIMIT THE ****IN THROWBALL.
The new black/penalty inside 20/arc is a solution to Hurley cynical fouling problems being landed onto football.
Every sport tinkers with its rules all the time. But in other sports the tinkering is usually either a reaction to technology (VAR) or a necessary reaction to medical advice (rugby's past decade).
No organisation though make seismic changes to their games with even a semblance of the regularity of the GAA.
The main reason for this is media optics. Whereas the media in every sport are fully signed up bandwagoners convinced that everything theirs watching is at a level never seen before, our media influence is led out by former players who decry everything as rubbish.
The problem then, when this outcry seeps into the national mindset is that it continually sets in motion dozens of people across Ireland who are determined to find ways to get things (particularly football) back to the way they used to be. And even if you dig them in a room for days and point out through video that the highest standard of football in the 70s and 80s (AI finals) was generally slow, error ridden, technically deficient hooliganism, they cannot and will not hear otherwise.
The saddest thing though is that the same clampets haven't worked out in order to get people to play a sport in their "purist" fashion, then the rules have to make it the most attractive way to play the game - otherwise it settles as an option, not the plan. And if what they really, really want is an endless delivery of 50/50 long balls, then they need to understand that having a mark only makes this a slightly more attractive than no mark. Whereas if the ball carrier could be emptied Aussie Rules style for holding onto the ball, then getting rid of it with a territorial advantage becomes such an attractive option.
While Im typing this someone somewhere will be posting about rule changes to make the games better.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2021, 04:54:49 PM
If they want to stop Rugby League type stuff
GET RID OF OR SEVERELY LIMIT THE ****IN THROWBALL.
The new black/penalty inside 20/arc is a solution to Hurley cynical fouling problems being landed onto football.
I don't understand people giving out about too much handpassing. It's a fundamental part of Gaelic football. They tried putting a limit on handpassing in the fbd league a couple of years back and it was a farce.
Maybe soccer is a better sport for you.
Quote from: didlyi on May 18, 2021, 05:56:45 PM
While Im typing this someone somewhere will be posting about rule changes to make the games better.
Quote from: MayoBuck on May 18, 2021, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2021, 04:54:49 PM
If they want to stop Rugby League type stuff
GET RID OF OR SEVERELY LIMIT THE ****IN THROWBALL.
The new black/penalty inside 20/arc is a solution to Hurley cynical fouling problems being landed onto football.
I don't understand people giving out about too much handpassing. It's a fundamental part of Gaelic football. They tried putting a limit on handpassing in the fbd league a couple of years back and it was a farce.
Maybe soccer is a better sport for you.
Spot on! You make a post complaining about too many rule changes and someone responds immediately about the need for rule changes.
The GAA are making changes and then not even allowing time for those to bed in before making new changes. The entire media commentary is about rules needing changed and how the rule changes are making a bollix of the game. It's not just ex-players. Martin Breheny would be an awful man for it too. It's like they are bored commentating on the actual game and have got into a rut of suggesting changes.
Wobbler spot on too about the ex-players. Basically these guys are given a platform by RTE to denigrate the game and make us feel like idiots for watching it. Pat "it was far better in my day" Spillane being the poster boy for this crap. There was nothing golden about the golden years. Middling skills, middling fitness, loads of handpassing (handpassed goals FFS) - but far fewer games televised, hence, people didn't have to sit through Carlow and Wicklow in the first round of Leinster.
All the same, it's great to have it back. There were a number of decent games on yesterday and instead of the Sunday Game and the radio giving a few minutes to look at Armagh v Monaghan (only one of two decently competitive Div 1 games this weekend), we had to listen to more and more shite about rules.
Aaaarrrghh
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2021, 04:54:49 PM
If they want to stop Rugby League type stuff
GET RID OF OR SEVERELY LIMIT THE ****IN THROWBALL.
The new black/penalty inside 20/arc is a solution to Hurley cynical fouling problems being landed onto football.
?
"Hurling man" told us for years there was no cynicism in their game.
Last Autumn it became patently obvious there was a load of "Sean Cavanagh" pulling down a man going for goal.
They wouldn't bring in a black card but brought in the penalty/sin bin punishment.
Then it was decided it should apply in football too.
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
"Hurling man" told us for years there was no cynicism in their game.
Last Autumn it became patently obvious there was a load of "Sean Cavanagh" pulling down a man going for goal.
They wouldn't bring in a black card but brought in the penalty/sin bin punishment.
Then it was decided it should apply in football too.
So the black card started in hurling?
Quote from: MayoBuck on May 18, 2021, 06:30:19 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 18, 2021, 04:54:49 PM
If they want to stop Rugby League type stuff
GET RID OF OR SEVERELY LIMIT THE ****IN THROWBALL.
The new black/penalty inside 20/arc is a solution to Hurley cynical fouling problems being landed onto football.
I don't understand people giving out about too much handpassing. It's a fundamental part of Gaelic football. They tried putting a limit on handpassing in the fbd league a couple of years back and it was a farce.
Maybe soccer is a better sport for you.
I agree with you regarding the handpass. There wouldn't be a Meath v Dublin moment in 1991 if there was a limit of let's say three handpasses.
The limited handpass trial was abandoned by the players and the refs almost before it started and the trial was a farce. If hurling and football have anything in common going forward it is that too much hand passing is ruining both games. It was a shame that the trial was not completed to show its true worth.
I send it earlier and while I hate these constant rule changes and making the games something it's not, why is it that these changes get a small bit of coverage when been brought forward and then suddenly the first weekend they in place there is wide spread coverage and disbelieve at them. Like all a sudden media, team mgt and ex players all find their voices and are openly outraged at them? Where they all under a rock when they where been discussed?
Did they not canvas their county boards at the time or reach out to the media to voice their concerns?
It's like they never seem to want to be the first one to speak out or they be considered weak and giving other teams an advantage somehow.
Genuinely they need to get all round a table, look at what has been introduced, remove any and then say for next 5 years rules stay as they are. McGeeney talked some sense today and said they still never look at actual existing rules such as the tackle and define it.
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
Really not sure about that Johnny.
A by-the-book referee usually makes football unwatchable, for anytime a ball carrier gets tackled at half speed or more it's regarded a foul. It's just boring to watch and besides if we want to play/watch a non-contact ball sport, soccer is already fulfilling that need.
This would have to be worse again in hurling, given that a by-the-book indiscretion in anything up to 70% of the field will likely result in a point conceded.
I don't like watching free taking contests myself.
Agreed Johnny. Its the mindset that needs to change. Fouling is being mistaken for manly hurling. The truth is you wouldn't dare put a hand where players put them now when the game was truly manly. Hurlers have a hurl to do the tackling. In football the tackle involves the use of hands so from that perspective there will always be more borderline offenses and IMO will always be more difficult to officiate.
If implementing the rule book would make a game unwatchable is it not time to remove a whole scatter of fouls from said rulebook?
As it is we're hiding behind the "let it flow" refs who choose to ignore a load of fouls in a game.
Or we could maybe start by implementing the 4 step rule in football and the throw rule in the Hurley stuff.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
100%.
That's why hurling needs a reset as these fouls, the spare arm tackle have now been accepted as part of the game. This isn't a recent thing, it happened as far back as the mid 00's.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
100%.
That's why hurling needs a reset as these fouls, the spare arm tackle have now been accepted as part of the game. This isn't a recent thing, it happened as far back as the mid 00's.
It was dual players that brought that into the game Johnny ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2021, 01:54:34 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
100%.
That's why hurling needs a reset as these fouls, the spare arm tackle have now been accepted as part of the game. This isn't a recent thing, it happened as far back as the mid 00's.
It was dual players that brought that into the game Johnny ;)
In Kilkenny?
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
i think you hitting te naiul on the head . Its not the Rules its the desperately poor Quality of Referee that is causing issues .
Im 100% in favor of the Sean cavnanagh Rule,When It is a clear and Obvious goal chance but Dublin got a penalty last weekend when they player was running away from Goal and players inside him.
by the same rule there would be about 5 Penos in Every Game.
the rest of the issue could easily be solved but the refs allowing legitimate tackles ,
Train the Refs don just give them a new Weapon to ruin games every time they feck up-
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40293542.html
Quote from: rosnarun on May 19, 2021, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
i think you hitting te naiul on the head . Its not the Rules its the desperately poor Quality of Referee that is causing issues .
Im 100% in favor of the Sean cavnanagh Rule,When It is a clear and Obvious goal chance but Dublin got a penalty last weekend when they player was running away from Goal and players inside him.
by the same rule there would be about 5 Penos in Every Game.
the rest of the issue could easily be solved but the refs allowing legitimate tackles ,
Train the Refs don just give them a new Weapon to ruin games every time they feck up-
Yes, it's the ref's fault.......
Quote from: rosnarun on May 19, 2021, 02:48:57 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 12:08:15 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 19, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on May 19, 2021, 09:21:14 AM
The GAA hierarchy seem to think the whole thing is a 'product'
It's a product that needs to sell and free fests like we've seen in recent weeks in the hurling don't endear it to the paying public.
John Kiely came out and said the other day that the tackle is being refereed differently in the hurling and he got his riposte from ex referee Barry Kelly who said that other than flicking, blocking and the shoulder charge, pulling and dragging were always fouls;
""Other than hooking and blocking, the only contact that is truly legitimate remains the shoulder. Hands are going in and the player in possession is being slapped hard. It's not really a tackle. You can't dislodge the ball in hurling by tackling like in football.""
He's entirely right.
If hurling referees are beginning to implement the rules as they were meant to be then the coaches and players need to realign as well.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40291766.html)
FWIW, I'm a big fan of the new penalty rule and sin binning. Proper defending is desperately needed back in the sport.
proper defending will return when the steps rule is enforced, throw balls are blown for
i think you hitting te naiul on the head . Its not the Rules its the desperately poor Quality of Referee that is causing issues .
Im 100% in favor of the Sean cavnanagh Rule,When It is a clear and Obvious goal chance but Dublin got a penalty last weekend when they player was running away from Goal and players inside him.
by the same rule there would be about 5 Penos in Every Game.
the rest of the issue could easily be solved but the refs allowing legitimate tackles ,
Train the Refs don just give them a new Weapon to ruin games every time they feck up-
The Sean Cavanagh drag down is the template, Big Sean can be proud that his legacy has endured.
I'd opine there are 3 considerations to fulfill for the full black card & penalty award, a black card assault, it happenend inside the 20m line and the player was with a realistic chance of a shot on goal /one on one with the goalie.
I thought that was a clusterfuck of refereeing performances at the weekend.
Cassidy and Hurson with two very bad performances, Cassidy in particular.