Man Utd Thread:

[brokencrossbar1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

[deiseach]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful.

No, I am not comparing their squads. Bayern change manager and get better. Man Utd change manager and get worse. Do you think Man Utd would be in their current pickle if Guardiola was in charge?

[EC Unique]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Don't agree with that at all. If he is not up to the job (as he may well be) then questions need to be asked of those who appointed him and their judgement ie Alex Ferguson. Part of the reason that the fans in the stadium haven't turned more forcefully on Moyes is because it was Ferguson who appointed Moyes and told them to 'stand by their manager'. If it had been the Glazers that had appointed Moyes he would have been gone by Christmas. Therefore can you imagine the next manager appointed who in all likelihood WON'T have the backing of Ferguson and will be perceived to have been a GLAZER appointment. He will get a lot less leeway yet will still have a rotting squad with a multitude of deficiencies. God knows where this will end up as they have spent £65m already yet have got worse as the season has gone on. They need to spend big in the summer which if it isn't got right, could put the whole future of the club in jeopardy given the debt levels that already exist. 

They won the league by 11 points last year FFS!

I did not really expect Moyes to come in and win the league but the least Utd fans expect is a top 4 finish. You can say what you want about aging players etc but that squad should be good enough to make the top 4 when the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool are currently there.

[imtommygunn]

Moyes always went 4-5-1 at everton and when he tried 4-4-2 it didn't work.

Players like Tim Cahill and Phil Neville worked brilliantly under him but when you added a bit more flair to it in Coleman or Barkley he never really gave them too much of a chance. Even Baines took ages to get a go as they had a centre back in there (Lescott).

Always too negative. This was ok for a club who were trying to build from being relegation candidates to moving up the table but not for a big club.

All for giving managers a chance and all but I think it's beyond that point now. There is no confidence in that team whatsoever - they were beat from the start and Fellaini looks absolutely useless. Even Mata, who's a superb player, doesn't look great.

[brokencrossbar1]

Tells a big tale

[EC Unique]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.

[NAG1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

How many games did Giggs/ Scholes play last year?

It all honesty looking at it objectively or at least trying to, it is probably a combination of DM and the players to blame for the slide.

Whether you say DM cant get the best out of RVP or whether you say RVP is pissed off and didnt like Fergie retiring on him and has decided to protect himself for the WC we will never know.

The decision needs to be made and this is where David Gill is a massive loss, as to how, where and when to splash the cash.

[brokencrossbar1]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.

You can't blame the players for all of that,  he is simply letting the ship sink around him as he hasn't a clue how to  stop the water coming in. 

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful.

No, I am not comparing their squads. Bayern change manager and get better. Man Utd change manager and get worse. Do you think Man Utd would be in their current pickle if Guardiola was in charge?

No, but Guardiola wasn't available at the time and I still think he would have struggled albeit to a lesser extent. Up until last summer Moyes was considered one of the best managers in the English game so there aren't THAT many managers that would have done a whole lot better whilst maintaining the stability that a plc club requires. The oil clubs like Man City and Chelsea can hire and fire at will since there is less accountability and a desire for instant success but a plc has to be run in a different manner.

I'm not saying Moyes is the right man but they (Ferguson) made the decision to give him the job and I can't see them sacking him at this junction nor what it would achieve. In fact it would probably make things worse if they sacked him. Ferguson himself was the victim of protests and abusive banners from fans so it would be hugely hypocritical of him to sack Moyes to appease the 'glory glory' brigade at this junction.   

[Mayo4Sam]

"In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said."

[rodney trotter]

Utd won the league 11pts last seaon, if those other clubs hadn't so many problems that wouldn't have been the case. Machester City with Mancini as manager last season had many fall outs, and he came to blows with Balotteli in training in December 2012. They weren't a united team last year. Chelsea sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez , Benitez got off to a terrible start with Chelsea so they fell further behind the league race

Utd were never 11pts better last season.

[brokencrossbar1]

A good manager will get more out of the same group of players. Instead of looking at what is happening at Man United to analyze Moyes I would look at what is happening in Goodison Park this season.  Martinez is a clever manager who is getting more out of less than Moyes did for years.  Of course he has new players in but he also lost one of Moyes stars in Fellani.  They are playing with a freedom that wasn't there under Moyes.  Moyes is a tactical dinosaur and I think United fans need to see that.  I am happy he stays there for as long as they want him,  he spunked £65m on 1 donkey and 1 player who he doesn't know how to use.  He doesn't have the mentality to manage a large team and never will.

How many games did Giggs/ Scholes play last year?

It all honesty looking at it objectively or at least trying to, it is probably a combination of DM and the players to blame for the slide.

Whether you say DM cant get the best out of RVP or whether you say RVP is pissed off and didnt like Fergie retiring on him and has decided to protect himself for the WC we will never know.

The decision needs to be made and this is where David Gill is a massive loss, as to how, where and when to splash the cash.

Hold on now are you saying that Scholes and Giggs were the difference last year?  If that is the case then surely the money that was spent on Mata and Fellani should have arrested that problem,   it didn't and that is purely down to Moyes.  He is a mid table mentality manager,  similar to Hodgson when he was appointed at Liverpool,  and will do irrepearable damage to United if left there.  #MoyesIn

"In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said."

I saw that, can you imagine Fergie coming out with such shite.  Hodgson did the same typeof things a few times!

[EC Unique]

Utd won the league 11pts last seaon, if those other clubs hadn't so many problems that wouldn't have been the case. Machester City with Mancini as manager last season had many fall outs, and he came to blows with Balotteli in training in December 2012. They weren't a united team last year. Chelsea sacked Di Matteo and replaced him with Benitez , Benitez got off to a terrible start with Chelsea so they fell further behind the league race

Utd were never 11pts better last season.

I understand that but they are also not the 7th or 8th best squad in the league either.

[orangeman]

In a comment that may further anger fans, Moyes stated that City are the side he wants his United team to emulate. "I think we've played a very good side and it's the sort of standard and level we need to try and aspire to get ourselves to at this moment in time," he said.

[EC Unique]

Tells a big tale

Says it all really.

You can't blame the players for all of that,  he is simply letting the ship sink around him as he hasn't a clue how to  stop the water coming in.

The only hard bit to understand is the away record. Best in the League. It is the home record that is so hard to take as OT was such a fortress over the years.