Man Utd Thread:

[Shrewdness]

Some utd fans here need to get real. That performance tonight was shocking and things will only improve once Moyes leaves the club.... At last someone talking sense. Huge rebuilding job needed, but Moyes is not the man to do it. He has never won anything as a manager and now we can see why. The deterioration at United has been so rapid, so his time is up. He can bring Fellaini with him.

[under the bar]

How about bringing this guy back?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2003603-bebe-scores-wonder-goal-after-backheel-flick-to-set-himself-up?

[yellowcard]

I'm not a Man Utd fan but their fans need to get real. Blaming everything on Moyes is grossly unfair considering some of the deadwood he was left behind by Ferguson. At best there are about 6 or 7 players in that squad worth keeping the rest are either too old, want out or are simply not good enough.

However Moyes has to take some responsibility for signing Fellaini and Mata for way more than their market value. Mata is a decent player but couldn't get on the Chelsea team nor make the most recent Spanish squad. That tells you something. Fellaini is not nor will never be good enough for Man Utd. As for Rooneys £300k per week contract, that will cause major problems down the line.

[BennyCake]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

[dec]

I'm not a Man Utd fan but their fans need to get real. Blaming everything on Moyes is grossly unfair considering some of the deadwood he was left behind by Ferguson. At best there are about 6 or 7 players in that squad worth keeping the rest are either too old, want out or are simply not good enough.

However Moyes has to take some responsibility for signing Fellaini and Mata for way more than their market value. Mata is a decent player but couldn't get on the Chelsea team nor make the most recent Spanish squad. That tells you something. Fellaini is not nor will never be good enough for Man Utd. As for Rooneys £300k per week contract, that will cause major problems down the line.

So what are the major differences between the squad that Ferguson won the league by 11 points with last year and the squad that is currently 18 points out of first place?

[seafoid]

Carrick is a poor man's Michael Carrick.
Bayern matches could be bibical.

Gory Gory Man Utd


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/26/sir-alex-ferguson-abused-fans-appointing-david-moyes

"With Moyes also receiving verbal abuse from supporters and stewards being asked to guard "The Chosen One" banner that hangs at the stadium's Stretford End after the 167th Manchester derby, the ire shown towards Ferguson, who is a club director, will cause serious questions at boardroom level."

The manager gets all the flak but the Glazers are the ones the fans
should be screaming at

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f33253f0-79f5-11e3-a3e6-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2x2zUbMKt

Moyes has a modest reputation, having never managed a giant club or won a trophy, but the club's problems go deeper. Sir Alex also bears some blame. But the chief culprits for United's slide are probably the Glazers themselves. Almost uniquely in football, they run their club as a profit-seeking business. With Sir Alex gone, the family's pursuit of profits is now likely to impede United's pursuit of trophies. Private equity-style management has squeezed investment in the UK's most famous sports club.
The Glazers represent a new kind of football club owner to have emerged in recent years: the profit-driven investor, usually American. There are now six US majority owners of Premier League clubs, including John Henry at Liverpool and Stan Kroenke at Arsenal. They seek to earn money from their clubs rather than winning at all costs. That makes them different from the "sugar daddies" – the sheikhs and oligarchs who treat their clubs as playthings and throw money at them. A conflict between the two kinds of owner now looms.

Man Utd is like football purgatory now. Nobody is going to buy the club from the Glazers because the price is too high. All fans can do is buy a few jerseys and hope the Glazers divert some of the money to buying players.

[yellowcard]

I'm not a Man Utd fan but their fans need to get real. Blaming everything on Moyes is grossly unfair considering some of the deadwood he was left behind by Ferguson. At best there are about 6 or 7 players in that squad worth keeping the rest are either too old, want out or are simply not good enough.

However Moyes has to take some responsibility for signing Fellaini and Mata for way more than their market value. Mata is a decent player but couldn't get on the Chelsea team nor make the most recent Spanish squad. That tells you something. Fellaini is not nor will never be good enough for Man Utd. As for Rooneys £300k per week contract, that will cause major problems down the line.

So what are the major differences between the squad that Ferguson won the league by 11 points with last year and the squad that is currently 18 points out of first place?

Some players have downed tools for whatever reason since Ferguson left.. Three quarters of their first choice back 4 are past it while the other Raphael, is a poor right back. It's common knowledge that their midfield has been muck for a good few years, Paul Scholes had to be brought out of retirement to hide deficiencies in this area a few years back whilst Giigs is now only fit for monthly appearances.

Rooney has been decent this season and Van Persie is quality but looks to be one of those who wants out. The club has disintegrated into a mess and Ferguson should be held more accountable than Moyes imo. It was his decision to appoint Moyes and if it's thought that Moyes isn't up to the job then questions need to be asked of the man who appointed him. I have a lot of sympathy for Moyes who I believe was given an impossible task, yet who would have turned down the job and a lucrative 6 year contract. However a new manager will have the exact same problems so I don't think changing horse now will solve all ills. They need to give him a summer to get his own players and judge him at the end of next season. If he can manage to get them back into th CL by the end of next season he will have done a very good job imo.

[seafoid]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

[yellowcard]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

That's the thing. A whole generation of fans have been fed a diet of success and glory and need to re adjust their expectations. The reason a lot of them would have chosen to support Man Utd in the first instance will have been because of this. I have no real sympathy for these type of fans but it's hard to watch Moyes suffer and take the brunt of it.

[seafoid]

Stewards had to guard the Chosen One banner from being ripped down, and abuse hurled at Fergie too. Fans have had enough.

The poor craythurs. They expect to win something every year. God love them.

That's the thing. A whole generation of fans have been fed a diet of success and glory and need to re adjust their expectations. The reason a lot of them would have chosen to support Man Utd in the first instance will have been because of this. I have no real sympathy for these type of fans but it's hard to watch Moyes suffer and take the brunt of it.

This thing of attaching yourself to success couldn't go on forever anyway. Imagine if it that was possible in GAA. Winning would be no fun.

Moyes was smart. He got a 6 year contract so if they buy him out he'll be fine. He can always get another job managing a team like Villa or WBA. Dunphy says football belongs to the fans but it doesn't any more.

The whole thing reminds me of Meath in the last days of the Boylan administration. The fans were screaming for Eamonn but it didn't make any difference.  Decline is hard to take.

[deiseach]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Don't agree with that at all. If he is not up to the job (as he may well be) then questions need to be asked of those who appointed him and their judgement ie Alex Ferguson. Part of the reason that the fans in the stadium haven't turned more forcefully on Moyes is because it was Ferguson who appointed Moyes and told them to 'stand by their manager'. If it had been the Glazers that had appointed Moyes he would have been gone by Christmas. Therefore can you imagine the next manager appointed who in all likelihood WON'T have the backing of Ferguson and will be perceived to have been a GLAZER appointment. He will get a lot less leeway yet will still have a rotting squad with a multitude of deficiencies. God knows where this will end up as they have spent £65m already yet have got worse as the season has gone on. They need to spend big in the summer which if it isn't got right, could put the whole future of the club in jeopardy given the debt levels that already exist. 

[rodney trotter]

Bayern Munich had a team of World Class players when Guardiola over, Utd didn't when Moyes took over, hardly a great comparison.

[deiseach]

Bayern Munich had a team of World Class players when Guardiola over, Utd didn't when Moyes took over, hardly a great comparison.

The point is that changing a manager does not inevitably lead to a downturn in fortunes. Your team lacking world class players won the title last season. Look at them now.

[yellowcard]

While I'm enjoying Man Utd's current woes - not so much last night, really could have done with them getting a result - I wouldn't sneer at fans who have 'had enough'. The problem here is entirely down to Moyes. Anyone could do better than he is doing. For Christ's  sake, Bayern replaced their all-conquering manager in the summer and got better. If a couple of players are swinging the lead, the problem is the players in question. If most of the players are swinging the lead, the problem is the manager. How much more evidence do the Man Utd board need that he isn't up to it? (I look forward to finding out)

Seriously your not comparing Bayern's squad to Man Utd? Bayern won the treble last season so to say they have got better is both subjective and premature. They have to prove that by winning the CL again. Ferguson could see what was coming and got out at the right time for him. He massively over achieved with this group of players over the last few years largely due to the force of his personality and the fear factor that he brought upon his players, officials, media and the powers that be in the English game. Those factors cannot be measured but were an undoubted part of what made him successful.