Irish History

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

I was taught this stuff but it was more to do with the teacher rather than the ciriculum.

What pisses me off is that I was taught English War poetry

Any history were the Irish were involved internationally over the last 100 years inc two world wars has a direct link with British History and is probably taught the same way in the 26 counties. As we have been pretty much divided people throughout this time we tend to lean more towards different Irish individuals in history rather than the actions of the State/Country/Nation etc.

In the 26 counties we are taught a lot of local history. I remember talking to a friend from Cork about Grannuaile and she had never heard of her, but she knew every last detail of the Battle of Kinsale, where I only had the basics. Grannuaile and the Ulster Earls where contemporaries.

[FL/MAYO]

Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island

That would have been me, if you are interested in Scottish history, I have a good one for you. Can't remember the name right now.

If I am correct the piece you refer to above was the accounts of a Catalan pilgram.
There are some funny bits too, such as the battle over a cabbage patch, which resulted in the only casualty of a failed rebellion where thousands had previously assembled but forgot to bring enough food so went home.
Or the time when the Loyal men of Ulster came down to Mayo to help out Captain Boycott. They got of the train in Claremorris the locals just ignored/bycotted them and none of the taxi's (yes hores and cart/horses drawn carriages) would bring them to Ballinrobe, so they had to walk. When they arrived to help Boycott free of charge, he charged them rent to camp on his land to work his land.

Was there not railway line to take them to Ballinrobe back then? The remains of the old line are still there as you leave Claremorris on the right hand side on the Ballinrobe road.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island

That would have been me, if you are interested in Scottish history, I have a good one for you. Can't remember the name right now.

If I am correct the piece you refer to above was the accounts of a Catalan pilgram.
There are some funny bits too, such as the battle over a cabbage patch, which resulted in the only casualty of a failed rebellion where thousands had previously assembled but forgot to bring enough food so went home.
Or the time when the Loyal men of Ulster came down to Mayo to help out Captain Boycott. They got of the train in Claremorris the locals just ignored/bycotted them and none of the taxi's (yes hores and cart/horses drawn carriages) would bring them to Ballinrobe, so they had to walk. When they arrived to help Boycott free of charge, he charged them rent to camp on his land to work his land.

Was there not railway line to take them to Ballinrobe back then? The remains of the old line are still there as you leave Claremorris on the right hand side on the Ballinrobe road.

If I remember thats what the book says, I know the estate was at Ballinrobe, perhaps it was closer to Claremorris. Thats what I remember reading anyways.

[delboy]

Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Well when I was going to national school in Killeshandra, Co Cavan all we were thought about was the battles that occured in our area along with all Irish Mythology. Our head master, a fairly violent man himself, loved nothing more than to tell us how Mylestheslasher laid siege to Killeshandra in the 1641 rebellion and how he threw a few english settlers into the Erne with rocks around their legs. Not a man to be messed with. Obviously, this has had a lasting effect on me!

And I always thought you took your board name from your incurable incontinence, especially on street corners 

[mylestheslasher]

Well when I was going to national school in Killeshandra, Co Cavan all we were thought about was the battles that occured in our area along with all Irish Mythology. Our head master, a fairly violent man himself, loved nothing more than to tell us how Mylestheslasher laid siege to Killeshandra in the 1641 rebellion and how he threw a few english settlers into the Erne with rocks around their legs. Not a man to be messed with. Obviously, this has had a lasting effect on me!

And I always thought you took your board name from your incurable incontinence, especially on street corners 

A little of both perhaps. 

[Main Street]

More likely to be found swaying under a lamppost, taking advantage of the support.

[The Subbie]

Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right bastards.

[JUst retired]

Hereiam. I read you post with interest and found it funny that the hores in claremorris were so un friendly towards the loyal sons of ulster.

[The Subbie]

Hereiam. I read you post with interest and found it funny that the hores in claremorris were so un friendly towards the loyal sons of ulster.

Not only were they unfriendly but they led the world in this type of protest, which soon entered common lexicon. It was so effective that boycott and his family left the area after 4 months if my memory serves me right, the Ulster men referred to by MGHU travelled from Monaghan and Cavan, they would have been orange hue, and they were protected by a massive force of police despite the protest been peaceful,it was only after Gladstones defeat in the commons when he tried to push through land reform and grant the Irish the three "F's", fair rent , fixity of tenure and free sale, that the land struggle turned violent. This lead to the Coercion act in 1881 and Parnell, Davitt and others were arrested.
Gladstone and Parnell then agreed the Kilmainham treaty and for a short while things settled down, the land league morphed into the Irish national league and in 1885 they wiped the boards in that years election with the only seat not won by them been in Dublin university ( Trinity surprise surprise) and East Ulster ( Quelle Surprise  )

This got the brits rightly worried and after cavindish( Lord Lieutenant of Ireland) and Burke were murdered in the Phoenix park there was a concerted smear campaign launched to discredit Parnell ( sounds familiar) and the Times of London carried article after article culminating in a letter seemingly signed by Parnell that more or less gave the go ahead for the Phoneix park murders, this was a forgery, and Parnell got substantial damages from the times and his name cleared.However the brits smelt blood and eventually "done" Parnell over his John Terry like nailing of Captain O'Shea's wife the famous Kitty O'Shea.

He eventually married Kitty but the spin of the time had him marked as a "cad" and a "Bounder" to be messing with another mans wife, this split the Irish national league/Irish parlimentry party and some sided with Parnell whilst some sided with Justin McCarthy ( sounds like saipain and the Limerick hurlers  )  however what finished Parnell is that the catholic church believed the sanctity of marriage was critical and divorce was seen almost as a sin. The biggest sinner of all was the person who was central to the divorce, i.e. the cause of it. This is what finished Parnell

He married Kitty in June 1891 and died in October or November 1891. Parnell was a revolutionary of his time in that 
He helped to create a political party that had discipline and could operate effectively at Westminster and also showed
that there were sections of the British establishment who would stop at nothing to undermine the cause of the Irish.

Some things never change

[delboy]

Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Come off it, trying to compare working for a few years to pay off your passage with a lifetime of slavery and the continued enslavment of your offspring is a not a case of simply splitting hairs. The difference is night and day and i suspect you know it.

[The Subbie]

Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Did i not say as much? what do you want me to say?

[delboy]

Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Did i not say as much? what do you want me to say?

I know this is getting a bit drawn out now, but no i don't think that says as much you are linking the two things with the same description, both are bad but one in my opinion is much worse than the other.
I'll leave it at that though as this is probably distracting from the main thrust of this thread.

[The Subbie]

agreed

[Orior]

Eye-witness account from 1641 when 80 english and scotch were marched onto Lake Kernan outside Gilford in County Down. Seems to me the root cause was James I's plantation of Ulster in 1610.

"Phelim M'Art McBrenn (sic), and his wicked company had brought the fourescore English and Scottes, that came out of the County of Armagh upon the aforesd. lough, called Lough Kearne, And whereas they found it so frozen with ice that they could not be drowned nere the sides there of, then they forced them as far as they could on the ice, But not dareing to drive or pursue them farr for feare to breake the Ice under their owne fete, and soe to be drowned themselves, They those wicked and merciles Irish (then) tooke the sucking children from their, parents, and those that carried them, and; with all the strength they could, threw them as far as they were able towards the place where the ice was weake and thinn : Whereupon those parents,nurses, and friendes, striving to fetch off the children, went soe farr that they burst and brake through the ice. and then and there both they and the children perished together by drowning, all save one man (that escaped from them wounded) (sic), and a woman; whose names he cannot express."