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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM

Title: Irish History
Post by: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Master Yoda on March 03, 2010, 10:17:43 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island
There are some parts of North Derry that are still fairly savage.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:21:44 AM
Wouldn't Disagree with that  ;D.
Was there ever a film made about the Ireland back in them days. You would think that the Irish film board could come uo with something instead of that shite the Turd-ors
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Hardy on March 03, 2010, 10:31:52 AM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
The Island was a savage place back in the early days where ... the women walked about with their private bits exposed

Funny how things have come full cycle.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: ludermor on March 03, 2010, 10:51:26 AM
Who would have thought you would have survived on Hob Nobs and yogurt.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Ulick on March 03, 2010, 10:57:47 AM
The book is based on the long running Raidió Uladh series which you should be able to listen to again somewhere on the BBC site:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/ashorthistory/about/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/ashorthistory/about/)
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: mylestheslasher on March 03, 2010, 11:35:16 AM
Well when I was going to national school in Killeshandra, Co Cavan all we were thought about was the battles that occured in our area along with all Irish Mythology. Our head master, a fairly violent man himself, loved nothing more than to tell us how Mylestheslasher laid siege to Killeshandra in the 1641 rebellion and how he threw a few english settlers into the Erne with rocks around their legs. Not a man to be messed with. Obviously, this has had a lasting effect on me!
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: ONeill on March 03, 2010, 11:50:15 AM
Yeah and feckin homo sapiens and the Tollund man.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

Wait till you get to the bit about cromwell  >:( >:( >:( >:( grrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: thebigfella on March 03, 2010, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

I was (don't know anyone who was force to learn English history by a foreign body as you put it)............. In fact we never covered much English histoy, apart from the history linked with our own. Personnaly I always prefered European, Middle East etc... I think some of the stuff we got taught was through rose tinted glasses and are not objective enough for my liking.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 03, 2010, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Thats certainly not my experience, we learnt about the flight of the earls, the plantation, drogehda/cromwell, 1690, the potato famine, the united irishmen and the home rule issue amongst other irish history.

We did do some stuff about 'england' but that was more in the context of europe as a whole to be honest.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Tony Baloney on March 03, 2010, 12:31:51 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens
Nonsense. If anything there is more Irish history than British in state schools in N.I. i.e. Medieval Ireland, Potato Famine, Easter Rising, Partition, Home Rule etc. etc. are all on the curricula.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 03, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

Wait till you get to the bit about cromwell  >:( >:( >:( >:( grrrrrrrrrr

I presume you are talking about the massacre at drogehda when virtually of all of the garrison (about half of which were english royalists) and as many clergy as they could find were put to the death. I think their is general consensus amongst historians that civilians were not massacred on the grand scale suggested by some (which i guess you are alluding too).
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 01:28:44 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

Wait till you get to the bit about cromwell  >:( >:( >:( >:( grrrrrrrrrr

I presume you are talking about the massacre at drogehda when virtually of all of the garrison (about half of which were english royalists) and as many clergy as they could find were put to the death. I think their is general consensus amongst historians that civilians were not massacred on the grand scale suggested by some (which i guess you are alluding too).
No Delboy guess again, The whole "to hell or to Connaught" replanting is the bit of cromwells input to Irish history I find most distasteful.If you had guessed that my loathing of "old ironsides" was to do with the forced indentured labour of over 50,000 Irish to Bermuda, Barbados and other far flung places, you would have guessed correctly
Cromwell's hostility to the Irish was religious as well as political, he abhorred the Catholic church and by extension catholic people, he was a bigot of the highest order, though i do accept that in some siege situations it is recoreded  and accepted historical fact that he did spare some civilians who were not "under arms". Most likely these were then given the "to hell or to Connaught" option.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Main Street on March 03, 2010, 01:51:01 PM
To Hell or to Connaught  ???

Jaysus, before I decide can I have a few minutes to think?
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 01:52:45 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2010, 01:51:01 PM
To Hell or to Connaught  ???

Jaysus, before I decide can I have a few minutes to think?

Its some choice
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Ulick on March 03, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 03, 2010, 01:51:01 PM
To Hell or to Connaught  ???

Or Barbados:

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0 (http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13181.0)
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 03, 2010, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 01:28:44 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

Wait till you get to the bit about cromwell  >:( >:( >:( >:( grrrrrrrrrr

I presume you are talking about the massacre at drogehda when virtually of all of the garrison (about half of which were english royalists) and as many clergy as they could find were put to the death. I think their is general consensus amongst historians that civilians were not massacred on the grand scale suggested by some (which i guess you are alluding too).
No Delboy guess again, The whole "to hell or to Connaught" replanting is the bit of cromwells input to Irish history I find most distasteful.If you had guessed that my loathing of "old ironsides" was to do with the forced indentured labour of over 50,000 Irish to Bermuda, Barbados and other far flung places, you would have guessed correctly
Cromwell's hostility to the Irish was religious as well as political, he abhorred the Catholic church and by extension catholic people, he was a bigot of the highest order, though i do accept that in some siege situations it is recoreded  and accepted historical fact that he did spare some civilians who were not "under arms". Most likely these were then given the "to hell or to Connaught" option.

It was the obvious guess to be fair, since it the one that most people flag up when it comes to cromwell, wiping out the whole place etc, wexford of course would be a better choice.

I agree with you that his hostility to the irish was certainly religious as well as political although the boundaries between these two things was blurry to say the least. Rightly or wrongly catholiism at the time was tied up with theocracy and the divine right of kings whereas protestanism was linked with support for parliment (although there was some protestant royalists but this was the exception).

Wasn't virtually all the deportation you mention carried out under the orders of other generals after cromwell had left ireland (thats my understanding of the chronology). Before anyone accuses me of making excuses for cromwell, i'd just add that i don't have a lot of time for him as a historical figure, as it transpired he seemed to want to supplant one papacy for his own IMO.

Talking about wexford reminds me of a book i was recommended to read by my history teacher at the time, it was told through the eyes of a family during the seige, it was in the style that many historical books now seem to be written in ie a fictional account based on real events, remember it being a good read, wouldn't mind getting it again, i don't suppose it rings any bells with anybody on here (i've long since forgot the title).   





Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: leenie on March 03, 2010, 02:44:18 PM
we were taught in p7 about the plantation / famine and the when i went into secondary school it was back to 1066...

it alls depends on the history teacher, ours didn't give a fluke.. but there was another history teacher in our school was big into his irish history unfortunately i never got taught by him... anyone that had him and enjoyed history sang his praises... he was very passionate about it!

i must get that book... would love to extend my knowledge of history....
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 03:14:32 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 02:21:32 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 01:28:44 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 12:06:18 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

Wait till you get to the bit about cromwell  >:( >:( >:( >:( grrrrrrrrrr

I presume you are talking about the massacre at drogehda when virtually of all of the garrison (about half of which were english royalists) and as many clergy as they could find were put to the death. I think their is general consensus amongst historians that civilians were not massacred on the grand scale suggested by some (which i guess you are alluding too).
No Delboy guess again, The whole "to hell or to Connaught" replanting is the bit of cromwells input to Irish history I find most distasteful.If you had guessed that my loathing of "old ironsides" was to do with the forced indentured labour of over 50,000 Irish to Bermuda, Barbados and other far flung places, you would have guessed correctly
Cromwell's hostility to the Irish was religious as well as political, he abhorred the Catholic church and by extension catholic people, he was a bigot of the highest order, though i do accept that in some siege situations it is recoreded  and accepted historical fact that he did spare some civilians who were not "under arms". Most likely these were then given the "to hell or to Connaught" option.

It was the obvious guess to be fair, since it the one that most people flag up when it comes to cromwell, wiping out the whole place etc, wexford of course would be a better choice.

I agree with you that his hostility to the irish was certainly religious as well as political although the boundaries between these two things was blurry to say the least. Rightly or wrongly catholiism at the time was tied up with theocracy and the divine right of kings whereas protestanism was linked with support for parliment (although there was some protestant royalists but this was the exception).

Wasn't virtually all the deportation you mention carried out under the orders of other generals after cromwell had left ireland (thats my understanding of the chronology). Before anyone accuses me of making excuses for cromwell, i'd just add that i don't have a lot of time for him as a historical figure, as it transpired he seemed to want to supplant one papacy for his own IMO.

Talking about wexford reminds me of a book i was recommended to read by my history teacher at the time, it was told through the eyes of a family during the seige, it was in the style that many historical books now seem to be written in ie a fictional account based on real events, remember it being a good read, wouldn't mind getting it again, i don't suppose it rings any bells with anybody on here (i've long since forgot the title).   







I'll try to find out about that book for you, it rings a bell and i have a mate whos a librarian and history nerd that would know.

Back to cromwell, I would'nt be so sure about your point that cromwell did'nt send anyone to Barbados,cromwell is recorded as saying after the sacking of Drogheda "the officers were knocked on the head, every tenth man of the soldiers killed and the rest shipped to Barbados"

I would not argue that his underlings such as Henry Ireton and Edmund Ludlow did indeed send captured Irish to the West Indies but to try and peddle the line that Cromwell did no such thing does not correspond with what i have read on the subject

This whole "cromwell was'nt that bad of a chap really" revisionism started roughly in 2000, the 350th anniversary of his ahem visit, the cromwell association had the nerve to have a mini roadshow round the country to try and dispell the "myth" that this great english hero and warrior was anything other than a thoroughly decent chap don't you know.

I would suggest reading "To hell or Barbados:The ethnic cleansing of Ireland" by Sean O'Callaghan ( not the tout)
which will back up my view that cromwell was  up to his facial warts in the slave trade of our unfortunate forebearers to the Caribbean. 
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Hardy on March 03, 2010, 03:48:08 PM
Cromwellian lore abounds in my immediate home locality in the Meath hinterland of Drogheda and, of course, in Drogheda itself.

I was born and raised within a mile of Cromwell Cross (more correctly Cromwell's Bush Crossroads, but known to us as "Crummel" which is how it was pronounced locally), where Cromwell's army is said to have overnighted en route from Dublin to Drogheda. The bush, apparently, was where Cromwell tethered his horse.

Whatever about his bloodthirsty predilections, he had a high sense of morality when it came to theft and it is recorded that he had two of his soldiers hanged for stealing a chicken from a local woman. More likely, I suppose, is that it was a matter of army discipline.

There has indeed been some revisionism in the history of the massacre in Drogheda, but I think the kindest interpretation that can be put on it, even if we do accept that there were no specific orders to massacre the population, is that the soldiery had free rein in the town for at least two days. Whether or not their orders were to execute only those bearing arms, there is no doubt that hordes of civilians were butchered and nobody in authority seems to have been too concerned about restraining the soldiers' blood lust. It is documented, for instance, by Cromwell's officers, that St. Peter's church was torched and the civilians who had taken refuge in it incinerated.

Scarlet Street in Drogheda is said to be named from the river of blood that flowed in it during the massacre.

An interesting illustration that history is complicated and that the gaels vs. saxons lines of antagonism that we all grew up with are ridiculously simplistic is that two of my close friends and under-age team-mates were Cromwells (spelt that way, but pronounced, again, Crummel) and their brother played for Meath. Later, when I lived in Limerick, my neighbours two doors down were Iretons and no more Irish family could you find.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: JUst retired on March 03, 2010, 04:20:20 PM
Great topic, at least we can learn something here.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 03, 2010, 04:45:44 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 03:14:32 PM

I'll try to find out about that book for you, it rings a bell and i have a mate whos a librarian and history nerd that would know.

Back to cromwell, I would'nt be so sure about your point that cromwell did'nt send anyone to Barbados,cromwell is recorded as saying after the sacking of Drogheda "the officers were knocked on the head, every tenth man of the soldiers killed and the rest shipped to Barbados"

I would not argue that his underlings such as Henry Ireton and Edmund Ludlow did indeed send captured Irish to the West Indies but to try and peddle the line that Cromwell did no such thing does not correspond with what i have read on the subject

This whole "cromwell was'nt that bad of a chap really" revisionism started roughly in 2000, the 350th anniversary of his ahem visit, the cromwell association had the nerve to have a mini roadshow round the country to try and dispell the "myth" that this great english hero and warrior was anything other than a thoroughly decent chap don't you know.

I would suggest reading "To hell or Barbados:The ethnic cleansing of Ireland" by Sean O'Callaghan ( not the tout)
which will back up my view that cromwell was  up to his facial warts in the slave trade of our unfortunate forebearers to the Caribbean.



Im not trying to say his wasn't a nasty peice of work lets face it anyone in a position of power back in the day had to be a ruthless ****.

Im also not saying that he didn't send anyone to Barbados, but that the majority of those that were sent by others in command of Ireland at the time (which the timing supports), the quote you use would certainly suggest after the sacking of Drogheda that he sent some of the combatants to Barbados, although how that squares with the contention that only 30/none (depending on who you believe) of the garrison was spared seems a bit odd. However It wouldn't be implausible to make the case that the rump parliament which ordered the deportations and land confiscation did so under the direct influence of Cromwell, i'd buy that espcially in light of his anger at the events of 1641 (maybe your book throws some light cromwells control of the rump parliment).

I have to say though i don't agree with your view that indenture and slavery are one and the same it does a disservice to those that suffered slavery, to be indebted to someone or an institution for the cost of your passage is not the same as slavery if this was the case then lots of irish people previous to and after Cromwell freely signed up for 'slavery' to the west indies and many other countries.

This isn't me being a Cromwell apologist/revisionist, its just someone with a interest in irish history wanting to see the events accurately reported, they were bad enough without the need to over egg the history pudding, it does the history a disservice and leaves fertile ground for inaccurate revisionism.

BTW, Ta for offering to ask your mate about the book, pm me if he knows anything.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: gallsman on March 03, 2010, 05:18:59 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Lies.

All depends on the exam board. Rathmore actually have quite an extensive syllabus with regards to Irish history from the OCR board at both GCSE and A-Level.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2010, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island

That would have been me, if you are interested in Scottish history, I have a good one for you. Can't remember the name right now.

If I am correct the piece you refer to above was the accounts of a Catalan pilgram.
There are some funny bits too, such as the battle over a cabbage patch, which resulted in the only casualty of a failed rebellion where thousands had previously assembled but forgot to bring enough food so went home.
Or the time when the Loyal men of Ulster came down to Mayo to help out Captain Boycott. They got of the train in Claremorris the locals just ignored/bycotted them and none of the taxi's (yes hores and cart/horses drawn carriages) would bring them to Ballinrobe, so they had to walk. When they arrived to help Boycott free of charge, he charged them rent to camp on his land to work his land.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

I was taught this stuff but it was more to do with the teacher rather than the ciriculum.

What pisses me off is that I was taught English War poetry >:(

Any history were the Irish were involved internationally over the last 100 years inc two world wars has a direct link with British History and is probably taught the same way in the 26 counties. As we have been pretty much divided people throughout this time we tend to lean more towards different Irish individuals in history rather than the actions of the State/Country/Nation etc.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2010, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 05:23:55 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

I was taught this stuff but it was more to do with the teacher rather than the ciriculum.

What pisses me off is that I was taught English War poetry >:(

Any history were the Irish were involved internationally over the last 100 years inc two world wars has a direct link with British History and is probably taught the same way in the 26 counties. As we have been pretty much divided people throughout this time we tend to lean more towards different Irish individuals in history rather than the actions of the State/Country/Nation etc.

In the 26 counties we are taught a lot of local history. I remember talking to a friend from Cork about Grannuaile and she had never heard of her, but she knew every last detail of the Battle of Kinsale, where I only had the basics. Grannuaile and the Ulster Earls where contemporaries.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: FL/MAYO on March 03, 2010, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2010, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island

That would have been me, if you are interested in Scottish history, I have a good one for you. Can't remember the name right now.

If I am correct the piece you refer to above was the accounts of a Catalan pilgram.
There are some funny bits too, such as the battle over a cabbage patch, which resulted in the only casualty of a failed rebellion where thousands had previously assembled but forgot to bring enough food so went home.
Or the time when the Loyal men of Ulster came down to Mayo to help out Captain Boycott. They got of the train in Claremorris the locals just ignored/bycotted them and none of the taxi's (yes hores and cart/horses drawn carriages) would bring them to Ballinrobe, so they had to walk. When they arrived to help Boycott free of charge, he charged them rent to camp on his land to work his land.

Was there not railway line to take them to Ballinrobe back then? The remains of the old line are still there as you leave Claremorris on the right hand side on the Ballinrobe road.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2010, 05:49:24 PM
Quote from: FL/MAYO on March 03, 2010, 05:44:42 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 03, 2010, 05:19:12 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Just started to read a book recommended by a board member called
"A History of Ireland in 250 Episodes" by Jonathan Bardon.
I am about a quarter of the way through which is about the time of the flight of the earls. The Island was a savage place back in the early days where the Irish (poor) people lived on oat biscuits, butter & sour milk, the women walked about with their private bits exposed which was normal practice. We really do have a violent history, something which wasn't taught at our school. Would highly recommend this book to anyone who wants to get an insight to the early beginnings of this Island

That would have been me, if you are interested in Scottish history, I have a good one for you. Can't remember the name right now.

If I am correct the piece you refer to above was the accounts of a Catalan pilgram.
There are some funny bits too, such as the battle over a cabbage patch, which resulted in the only casualty of a failed rebellion where thousands had previously assembled but forgot to bring enough food so went home.
Or the time when the Loyal men of Ulster came down to Mayo to help out Captain Boycott. They got of the train in Claremorris the locals just ignored/bycotted them and none of the taxi's (yes hores and cart/horses drawn carriages) would bring them to Ballinrobe, so they had to walk. When they arrived to help Boycott free of charge, he charged them rent to camp on his land to work his land.

Was there not railway line to take them to Ballinrobe back then? The remains of the old line are still there as you leave Claremorris on the right hand side on the Ballinrobe road.

If I remember thats what the book says, I know the estate was at Ballinrobe, perhaps it was closer to Claremorris. Thats what I remember reading anyways.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 03, 2010, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 03, 2010, 11:35:16 AM
Well when I was going to national school in Killeshandra, Co Cavan all we were thought about was the battles that occured in our area along with all Irish Mythology. Our head master, a fairly violent man himself, loved nothing more than to tell us how Mylestheslasher laid siege to Killeshandra in the 1641 rebellion and how he threw a few english settlers into the Erne with rocks around their legs. Not a man to be messed with. Obviously, this has had a lasting effect on me!

And I always thought you took your board name from your incurable incontinence, especially on street corners  ;)
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: mylestheslasher on March 03, 2010, 06:32:58 PM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on March 03, 2010, 06:31:36 PM
Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 03, 2010, 11:35:16 AM
Well when I was going to national school in Killeshandra, Co Cavan all we were thought about was the battles that occured in our area along with all Irish Mythology. Our head master, a fairly violent man himself, loved nothing more than to tell us how Mylestheslasher laid siege to Killeshandra in the 1641 rebellion and how he threw a few english settlers into the Erne with rocks around their legs. Not a man to be messed with. Obviously, this has had a lasting effect on me!

And I always thought you took your board name from your incurable incontinence, especially on street corners  ;)

A little of both perhaps.  :)
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Main Street on March 03, 2010, 07:51:09 PM
More likely to be found swaying under a lamppost, taking advantage of the support.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right bastards.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: JUst retired on March 04, 2010, 08:03:23 AM
Hereiam. I read you post with interest and found it funny that the hores in claremorris were so un friendly towards the loyal sons of ulster. ;D
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 04, 2010, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: JUst retired on March 04, 2010, 08:03:23 AM
Hereiam. I read you post with interest and found it funny that the hores in claremorris were so un friendly towards the loyal sons of ulster. ;D

Not only were they unfriendly but they led the world in this type of protest, which soon entered common lexicon. It was so effective that boycott and his family left the area after 4 months if my memory serves me right, the Ulster men referred to by MGHU travelled from Monaghan and Cavan, they would have been orange hue, and they were protected by a massive force of police despite the protest been peaceful,it was only after Gladstones defeat in the commons when he tried to push through land reform and grant the Irish the three "F's", fair rent , fixity of tenure and free sale, that the land struggle turned violent. This lead to the Coercion act in 1881 and Parnell, Davitt and others were arrested.
Gladstone and Parnell then agreed the Kilmainham treaty and for a short while things settled down, the land league morphed into the Irish national league and in 1885 they wiped the boards in that years election with the only seat not won by them been in Dublin university ( Trinity surprise surprise) and East Ulster ( Quelle Surprise  ::) )

This got the brits rightly worried and after cavindish( Lord Lieutenant of Ireland) and Burke were murdered in the Phoenix park there was a concerted smear campaign launched to discredit Parnell ( sounds familiar) and the Times of London carried article after article culminating in a letter seemingly signed by Parnell that more or less gave the go ahead for the Phoneix park murders, this was a forgery, and Parnell got substantial damages from the times and his name cleared.However the brits smelt blood and eventually "done" Parnell over his John Terry like nailing of Captain O'Shea's wife the famous Kitty O'Shea.

He eventually married Kitty but the spin of the time had him marked as a "cad" and a "Bounder" to be messing with another mans wife, this split the Irish national league/Irish parlimentry party and some sided with Parnell whilst some sided with Justin McCarthy ( sounds like saipain and the Limerick hurlers  ;D)  however what finished Parnell is that the catholic church believed the sanctity of marriage was critical and divorce was seen almost as a sin. The biggest sinner of all was the person who was central to the divorce, i.e. the cause of it. This is what finished Parnell

He married Kitty in June 1891 and died in October or November 1891. Parnell was a revolutionary of his time in that 
He helped to create a political party that had discipline and could operate effectively at Westminster and also showed
that there were sections of the British establishment who would stop at nothing to undermine the cause of the Irish.

Some things never change
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 04, 2010, 11:21:54 AM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Come off it, trying to compare working for a few years to pay off your passage with a lifetime of slavery and the continued enslavment of your offspring is a not a case of simply splitting hairs. The difference is night and day and i suspect you know it.

Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 04, 2010, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Did i not say as much? what do you want me to say?
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delboy on March 04, 2010, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 04, 2010, 11:27:26 AM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.

Did i not say as much? what do you want me to say?

I know this is getting a bit drawn out now, but no i don't think that says as much you are linking the two things with the same description, both are bad but one in my opinion is much worse than the other.
I'll leave it at that though as this is probably distracting from the main thrust of this thread.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: The Subbie on March 04, 2010, 12:42:14 PM
agreed
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Orior on February 08, 2016, 02:05:30 PM
Eye-witness account from 1641 when 80 english and scotch were marched onto Lake Kernan outside Gilford in County Down. Seems to me the root cause was James I's plantation of Ulster in 1610.

"Phelim M'Art McBrenn (sic), and his wicked company had brought the fourescore English and Scottes, that came out of the County of Armagh upon the aforesd. lough, called Lough Kearne, And whereas they found it so frozen with ice that they could not be drowned nere the sides there of, then they forced them as far as they could on the ice, But not dareing to drive or pursue them farr for feare to breake the Ice under their owne fete, and soe to be drowned themselves, They those wicked and merciles Irish (then) tooke the sucking children from their, parents, and those that carried them, and; with all the strength they could, threw them as far as they were able towards the place where the ice was weake and thinn : Whereupon those parents,nurses, and friendes, striving to fetch off the children, went soe farr that they burst and brake through the ice. and then and there both they and the children perished together by drowning, all save one man (that escaped from them wounded) (sic), and a woman; whose names he cannot express."
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2016, 02:10:37 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 07:56:54 PM
Quote from: delboy on March 03, 2010, 06:24:30 PM
Quote from: The Subbie on March 03, 2010, 05:02:55 PM
Bonded servants/ indentured labourers were not slaves in the known "roots" version of the word but for those harassed battered, forced  to work unremunerated under a hot sun and dying before their indenture was completed, the difference must have seemed academic.

For an african slave working under a hot sun knowing no matter how long they toil they'll never be free and that death will be the only freedom and that their offspring and subsequent generations will also share the same fate i doubt very much the differnence between them and indentured labourers would seem academic.

a bit of hair splitting going on here, neither indentured labourer nor slave had a happy time of it back in the day, now back to history, i would have a good knowledge of Irish history from the 1500's to present times,always did well at school at the subject and if i was'nt doing my current job would have loved to have studied history further.
One small slice of Irish History that i would really like to get into more is the 100 years or so pre flight of the earls, to try to gauge what Ireland was like when there was a functioning aristocracy throughout the land, what type of characters there were about the place, were they good to the hoi polli or were they right b**tards.
I heard from someone that when Aodh Rua came down to Galway in the 1590s he was fairly brutal and turned the locals against himself
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: seafoid on February 08, 2016, 02:12:49 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.
We were taught about Benburb and the Ford of the Digestives in Galway.
The castle museum in Limerick is very interesting about the siege and that war 
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Oraisteach on February 08, 2016, 07:11:57 PM
Word has it that the Christian Brothers inculcated a Republican view of Irish history, but my experience with the CBS is that we received feck all Irish history and equally little Irish literature, since of course we were following a state-determined curriculum that was essentially English.  We did study Grattan's Parliament, I recall, and beyond that zilch.  As for literature, we got the odd Yeats poem here and there, but not much else.  We did read Shaw's Arms and the Man, but I had little sense while reading it that he was Irish. My Irish history I gleaned from reading and from listening to my Dad and neighbours recount the history of Ireland.  I do recall standing at O'Neill's castle in Benburb and listening to my Dad present a detailed account of the Battle of the Yellow Ford. 

A former English teacher myself, I'm certain that the huge gap in my own education is the reason that I taught an elective course, here in the US, on the Literature of the Troubles, designed as much to satisfy myself as to educate my students.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: ardchieftain on February 08, 2016, 07:18:44 PM
Quote from: Hereiam on March 03, 2010, 11:41:21 AM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:22:44 AM
Quote from: Orior on March 03, 2010, 11:13:35 AM
The state schools in the occupied six counties dont get taught any Irish History. Its all about english kings and queens

Our historys are linked.
Yes they are linked but we were never taught about the O'Neills etc and how they battled the English outside Benburb in Co. Tyrone. There were 100's/1000's killed in this battle and I never knew it even took place. That there was a great fort built there that was an important statement made by the English to the O'Neills. There were other great battles that took place over the Island of Ireland and we were never told about any of them. Instead our minds were filled with crap about England fighting and winning all these great battle's. My young son will know the correct history of this Island and not some bullshit taught to him by a foreign body.

I went to school in Armagh and we done all the stuff from that period with emphasis on the Battle of Benburb. Outside of football this was one of my happier memories of school.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 09, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
The academia in Ireland north and south is controlled by the British. For example. I used to think there was a famine in Ireland because people were reliant on the potato crop and when it failed they starved to death. But the truth is Britain removed Irelands food at gun point with over half of their army and the Irish race was close to extinction.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Farrandeelin on February 09, 2016, 09:37:54 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 09, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
The academia in Ireland north and south is controlled by the British. For example. I used to think there was a famine in Ireland because people were reliant on the potato crop and when it failed they starved to death. But the truth is Britain removed Irelands food at gun point with over half of their army and the Irish race was close to extinction.

God brought the blight, England brought the famine.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: From the Bunker on February 09, 2016, 10:08:44 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 09, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
The academia in Ireland north and south is controlled by the British. For example. I used to think there was a famine in Ireland because people were reliant on the potato crop and when it failed they starved to death. But the truth is Britain removed Irelands food at gun point with over half of their army and the Irish race was close to extinction.

One of the disguised efforts at Genocide. It's hard to believe that Ireland, with such a climate that it has. Could suffer such a fate unless there is interference. The ensuing workhouses were a level of concentration camps.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: foxcommander on February 09, 2016, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 09, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
The academia in Ireland north and south is controlled by the British. For example. I used to think there was a famine in Ireland because people were reliant on the potato crop and when it failed they starved to death. But the truth is Britain removed Irelands food at gun point with over half of their army and the Irish race was close to extinction.


Shhhh - don't be upsetting the west brits on here (like Rossfan).

He thinks Ireland looks like this

(http://d2z7bzwflv7old.cloudfront.net/cdn_image/exH_600/images/maps/en/ei/ei-outline.gif)
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: seafoid on February 09, 2016, 10:37:06 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 09, 2016, 10:08:44 PM
Quote from: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 09, 2016, 09:26:44 PM
The academia in Ireland north and south is controlled by the British. For example. I used to think there was a famine in Ireland because people were reliant on the potato crop and when it failed they starved to death. But the truth is Britain removed Irelands food at gun point with over half of their army and the Irish race was close to extinction.

One of the disguised efforts at Genocide. It's hard to believe that Ireland, with such a climate that it has. Could suffer such a fate unless there is interference. The ensuing workhouses were a level of concentration camps.
It was an extreme version of capitalism
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Íseal agus crua isteach a on February 10, 2016, 12:13:32 AM
If any teacher in 26 county Ireland who new the truth and wanted to tell his students the truth, they faced being fired. I have a couple examples of that.

Britains ruling elite through history have always violently attacked the Irish people. It was especially ramped up during Elizabeth the first, Cromwell and Victoria.

In 1781 The United States finally frees itself of British rule. Lord Cornwallis's sword is surrendered to George Washington. One third of Washington's army were Irish. This defeat freed up a lot of British regiments. Many were later moved to Ireland. Almost 67 of 130 British regiments were in Ireland to over see the food removal. During this period 300,000 Irish homes were destroyed  with an average of seven people per house hold. Many of these homes had three generations in the same house. I have actually seen British military records of this time period it is 100% proof of their intentions.

Last week a friend took me to Newberry Library in down town Chicago to show me some fascinating books a bout Ireland. The Library has in it, a special storage unit with Ordnance (military terminology) maps of Ireland that were made by the British militia. They started in Derry 1830 and worked their way down to the bottom of the Island and were finished in 1843. Final engravings were completed by 1845. Ireland had an abundance of grain mills, live stock pounds ect

If anyone goes to Chicago they should check the Library out. The experience was like a script from a movie. First they take your ids then take you to a walled in room surrounded with glass where someone watched you the whole time. In came a worker from the Library with the books in a special trolly. I was glad they let me take pictures with my i phone.
 
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Orior on August 11, 2021, 11:34:05 AM
I was up in Derry hi the other day and joined in on a tour of the Derry Walls. Fascinating no-holes-barred talk by the guide. There was a lot about Derry that I didn't know and I would highly recommend doing that tour which takes about an hour.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Orior on August 11, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?

There was one in the Fountain estate in July, and it is being rebuilt for the Apprentice Boys march. It is about 20 paces from terraced houses and right in front of a firestation. I didn't see any nationalist bonfires.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delgany on August 11, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 11, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?

There was one in the Fountain estate in July, and it is being rebuilt for the Apprentice Boys march. It is about 20 paces from terraced houses and right in front of a firestation. I didn't see any nationalist bonfires.

Omagh CBS A level history - full on Irish History  -1900- 1970!
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 06:31:11 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 11, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?

There was one in the Fountain estate in July, and it is being rebuilt for the Apprentice Boys march. It is about 20 paces from terraced houses and right in front of a firestation. I didn't see any nationalist bonfires.

We know themmuns are at that sort of crack, it was people purporting to be Irish emulating them that was the problem.
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Aughafad on August 11, 2021, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: delgany on August 11, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 11, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?

There was one in the Fountain estate in July, and it is being rebuilt for the Apprentice Boys march. It is about 20 paces from terraced houses and right in front of a firestation. I didn't see any nationalist bonfires.

Omagh CBS A level history - full on Irish History  -1900- 1970!

By Theresa by any chance?
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: delgany on August 12, 2021, 12:32:56 AM
Quote from: Aughafad on August 11, 2021, 07:23:01 PM
Quote from: delgany on August 11, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
Quote from: Orior on August 11, 2021, 04:53:18 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 11, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
Did they have that ridiculous bonfire in Derry this year, or have they wised up?

There was one in the Fountain estate in July, and it is being rebuilt for the Apprentice Boys march. It is about 20 paces from terraced houses and right in front of a firestation. I didn't see any nationalist bonfires.

Omagh CBS A level history - full on Irish History  -1900- 1970!

By Theresa by any chance?
Unfortunately not!  Wee John...
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: tonto1888 on August 12, 2021, 01:00:43 AM
The Voyage of the Catalpa is worth a read guys

Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: Main Street on August 12, 2021, 01:35:38 AM
Quote from: tonto1888 on August 12, 2021, 01:00:43 AM
The Voyage of the Catalpa is worth a read guys
I haven't read it but the TG4 Irish history documentary was outstanding, an astonshing story. Fenians rock!!
Title: Re: Irish History
Post by: armaghniac on August 12, 2021, 01:54:45 AM
There was some talk if a film about the Fenian rescue, it could be good plot for a movie.