Hurling 2024

Started by seafoid, January 01, 2023, 08:24:25 PM

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seafoid

They can be marked for 30-35 minutes. Afterwards they can't.  That is not skill. That's S&C.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

imtommygunn

ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?

NAG1

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?

Kinnerk is the key for that tactical element.

It's no coincidence that they have hit the perfect storm of S&C and skill level. When they set out in the development squads they are looking at players with certain characteristics, size shape frame etc throw the hurling coaching at them and if you have enough of these lads the hurling will stick with enough of them as we are seeing at the moment.

Granted there are a few who are just blessed with that level of skill and talent. But you don't produce a machine like they are without the above systems in place.

imtommygunn

Yeah it needs a lot of that in place - well to operate the way they do it does anyway.

That being said no amount of s&c and training could provide you with the vision that Lynch has. You just can't manufacture that.

Saffrongael

That Limerick team is all sorts of shapes too, it's not as if they are all rippling with muscles, they are built for hurling. Byrnes for example very lean and wirey, Sean Finn small but strongly built.
Let no-one say the best hurlers belong to the past. They are with us now, and better yet to come

seafoid

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

marty34

Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 01:51:48 PM
They can be marked for 30-35 minutes. Afterwards they can't.  That is not skill. That's S&C.

It's not S&C.

They're top class hurlers.

imtommygunn

Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster

It's hurling not a video game  ;D

johnnycool

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster

It's hurling not a video game  ;D

Some of the KK lads are a bit off on the S&C though, take Tom Phelan, I thought he was a young lad, 21 or 22 or so, but he's 27.

A fine hurler but was bounced about and lost possession twice in the tackle in the second half that I can remember. Now he'd have been better off not going into those tackles although a lot of the time with Limerick those tackles come to you..

On the flip side, take Cathal O'Neill or Adam English, bit part players, 20 to 21 years old and far better conditioned for this type of hurling.

Kilkenny do have a bit of catching up to do in terms of S&C, no doubt but it starts in the youth teams and not when they're adults.



imtommygunn

I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?

johnnycool

Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?

More than they'd care for you to believe.

As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's

seafoid

Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?

More than they'd care for you to believe.

As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness  of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.

The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was  selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnnycool

Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?

More than they'd care for you to believe.

As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness  of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.

The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was  selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.

Cork are banking on a few strong juvenile teams to push them into contention, but barring a few were light enough looking. Plenty of pace alright and that's always good, but they need a sprinkling of ball winners and a few hardy souls in their defence. I don't see them as yet.
Clare for me are the not so dark horses. They've brought in young Hogan into their defence and their U20 fullback whose name escapes me looks like a proper modern fullback, big enough lad, pacey and fine wrists. Clare sort that defence out and they'll maybe finally land some silverware in Munster.


seafoid

Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?

More than they'd care for you to believe.

As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness  of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.

The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was  selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.

Cork are banking on a few strong juvenile teams to push them into contention, but barring a few were light enough looking. Plenty of pace alright and that's always good, but they need a sprinkling of ball winners and a few hardy souls in their defence. I don't see them as yet.
Clare for me are the not so dark horses. They've brought in young Hogan into their defence and their U20 fullback whose name escapes me looks like a proper modern fullback, big enough lad, pacey and fine wrists. Clare sort that defence out and they'll maybe finally land some silverware in Munster.
Kilkenny started running out of gas in 2012/13 . In the next few years Tipp and Galway were the clear pretenders but now there doesn't seem to be anyone.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

marty34

#1109
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster

It's hurling not a video game  ;D

Some of the KK lads are a bit off on the S&C though, take Tom Phelan, I thought he was a young lad, 21 or 22 or so, but he's 27.

A fine hurler but was bounced about and lost possession twice in the tackle in the second half that I can remember. Now he'd have been better off not going into those tackles although a lot of the time with Limerick those tackles come to you..

On the flip side, take Cathal O'Neill or Adam English, bit part players, 20 to 21 years old and far better conditioned for this type of hurling.

Kilkenny do have a bit of catching up to do in terms of S&C, no doubt but it starts in the youth teams and not when they're adults.

In fairness, Phelan was probably one of KK's best players in the final.  Iirc, he got 3pts after being emptied by WOD after 5 mins.