The Covid all Ireland hurling championship 2020/21

Started by seafoid, June 26, 2020, 07:32:45 PM

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didlyi

https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1

Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1

Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.

Managers will work hat out, as they have done over the years
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

seafoid

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/hurling-championship-2020-county-by-county-guide-1.4386995

Hurling Championship 2020: County-by-county guide
Seán Moran runs the rule over the 10 squads competing for the Liam MacCarthy
Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 05:26

Seán Moran


Leinster
DUBLIN
Manager: Mattie Kenny (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 33/1; Leinster 10/1
First up: v Laois, tbc, October 24th, 6.0
Last year: Qualified from Leinster but shocked by Laois
Longest year: All-Ireland final, December 14th, 1924, beat Galway
Where we left them: After a humdrum league in which they won the obvious fixtures against Laois and Carlow but lost to all of the better counties.Unlucky versus Wexford but well beaten by Kilkenny and Clare.
Where they are: Still not enough new players coming through, especially in attack where All Star nominated back Chris Crummey is likely to relocate. Defence is sound but lacking wallop up front.
GALWAY
Galway's Fintan Burke. Photograph: Inpho/Cathal Noonan
Manager: Shane O'Neill (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 4/1; Leinster 13/8
First up: v Wexford, tbc, October 31st, 6.15
Last year: Failed to get out of Leinster
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final (1898), December 17th, 1899, lost to Tipperary
Where we left them: In a league quarter-final after an improving league campaign under new management, with Shane O'Neill running the rule over 31 players, including the promising Evan Niland and Darren Morrissey.
Where they are: Time has allowed Fintan Burke regain full fitness and find luminous form for St Thomas at full back, which frees up serial All Star Dáithí Burke for deployment farther out or vice versa.
KILKENNY
Kilkenny's Adrian Mullen. Photograph: Inpho/Gary Carr
Manager: Brian Cody (22nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 9/2; Leinster 11/8
First up: v Dublin/Laois, tbc, November 1st, tbc
Last year: All-Ireland and Leinster finalists, they eliminated All-Ireland champions Limerick
Longest year: All-Ireland final, December 12th, 1909, beat Tipperary

Where we left them: Had qualified for league quarter-finals but form was understandably underwhelming given the resting of senior Ballyhale players.
Where they are: Fully restored if positive tales of Adrian Mullen's cruciate recovery are accurate, Kilkenny haven't appreciably restocked but retain a strong spine and the Shamrocks players are again in form. Proved last year that they can take almost anyone – but everyone? 
LAOIS
Mark Kavanagh of Laois. Photogrxaph: Inpho/Ryan Byrne
Manager: Eddie Brennan (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 1000/1; Leinster 100/1
First up: v Dublin, tbc, October 24th, 6.0
Last year: McDonagh Cup winners, shocked Dublin and lost to Tipperary
Longest year: All-Ireland final, October 24th, 1924, beat Cork
Where we left them: In not bad form at end of the league'having got the crucial win over Carlow to secure Division 1 status and reasonably competitive elsewhere.
•   Nicky English: Extra game will improve both Dublin and already formidable Limerick
•   Limerick score 36 points to overpower Tony Kelly's solo act
•   Inspirational Burke points the way as Dublin clear opening hurdle
Where they are: Losing the intended advantage of getting at least four championship matches in good conditions, they have traditional one shot, against Dublin. Prolific Mark Kavanagh's fitness a worry and other absentees leave them weaker that last year.
WEXFORD
Manager: David Fitzgerald (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 12/1 and Leinster 7/2
First up: v Galway, tbc, October 31st, 6.15
Last year: Leinster champions, lost All-Ireland semi-final against Tipp
Longest year: All-Ireland final, November 20th, 1910, beat Limerick
Where we left them: In league quarter-final after a good run with just one defeat, against Clare. Emergence of Joe O'Connor at corner back adds to David Fitzgerald's options.
Where they are: Leinster champions but still short of top table reservation. Full strength. Covid facilitates Liam Ryan's recover from injury but removes the crowds on which Wexford thrive. Will they adapt running game in wintry conditions? 
Munster
CLARE
David McInerney of Clare. Photograph: Inpho/Ryan Byrne
Manager: Brian Lohan (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 20/1; Munster 10/1
First up: v Limerick, Thurles, October 25th, 3.45
Last year: Didn't qualify from Munster
Longest year: All-Ireland final, October 18th, 1914, beat Laois
Where we left them: Unbeaten and top of their group, which qualifies them for abbreviated league's final but also with captain John Conlon injured.
Where they are: Fallen back, having lost players with Conlon's return still a few weeks off. Peter Duggan hasn't returned. Still some serious performers, like Tony Kelly, David McInerney and Shane O'Donnell but a bit one-paced at the back. Struggled in recent challenges. 
CORK
Cork's Séamus Harnedy. Photograph: Inpho/Laszlo Geczo
Manager: Kieran Kingston (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 7/1; Munster11/4
First up: v Waterford, Thurles, October 31st, 3.30
Last year: Lost All-Ireland quarter-final to Kilkenny
Longest year: All-Ireland final (1903), November 19th, 1905, beat London

Where we left them: Inconsistent league campaign in Kieran Kingston's first year back.
Where they are: Going impressively in challenges, whatever that indicates, but they have great pace around the field. Improved under-age supply picking up and some fresh attacking talent emerged in the county championship, like Alan Connolly, but there are injury concerns with Darragh Fitzgibbon gone for a while. Defensive issues also don't look resolved, either.
LIMERICK

Limerick's Richie English after the 2019 loss to Kilkenny. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
Manager: John Kiely (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 11/4; Munster 5/2
First up: v Clare, Thurles, October 25th, 3.45
Last year: Munster champions, beaten by Kilkenny in All-Ireland semi-final
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final, December 3rd, 1911, beat Galway
Where we left them: On 100 per cent record, which puts them in a league final (doubling up with championship opener) against Clare but also with significant injury to Richie English.
Where they are: Mike Casey's bad injury exacerbates English's absence given comparative lack of resources in full-back line. Main contenders, fuelled by last year's disappointment. Shane Dowling has retired and Na Piarsaigh club mate David Dempsey is injured.
TIPPERARY
Tipperary's Patrick Maher. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
Manager: Liam Sheedy (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 10/3; Munster 15/8
First up: v Clare/Limerick, tbc, November 1st, 4.0
Last year: All-Ireland champions, beating Kilkenny
Longest year: All-Ireland semi-final (1898), December 17th, 1899, beat Galway
Where we left them: Shaping up like any other season defending the All-Ireland for Tipp. One win out of five in the league.
Where they are: Delay distances them from downbeat league and facilitates the return of Bonner Maher from long-term injury. County championship's best player, John Meagher, is called up but will he translate to the top level? Good young players as well as proven performers. 
WATERFORD
Manager: Liam Cahill (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 14/1; Munster 13/2
First up: v Cork, Thurles, October 31st, 3.30
Last year: Didn't qualify from Munster
Longest year: All-Ireland final (replay), October 4th, 1959, beat Kilkenny
Where we left them: Encouraging league under new manager Liam Cahill dimmed the controversy of panel cuts, reaching quarter-final.
Where they are: Badly hit by Pauric Mahony's long-term injury although delayed season and county championship produced one major bonus: Tadhg de Búrca's return from injury and to top form means that Austin Gleeson can move to the forwards, the sector where the team needs greater impact. Well positioned in the long grass for the meeting with Cork.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnnycool

#48
Quote from: didlyi on October 27, 2020, 04:59:09 PM
https://twitter.com/sixtwofourtwo/status/1320011916677386240/photo/1

Yes I have a bee in my bonnet over handpassing. See the link above. Laois are handpassing almost half of their passes. I watched highlights of the Westmeath County final and the amount of handpassing was shocking. If this the way the game is going there will be no intensity to the game whatsoever and the game will just become handpass to the man in space and shoot from distance.

What's a punt pass? Edit, its in the small print. hit and hope  ;D

Interesting enough stats those and as I said hurling is now a possession based game and reinforces my point about Kilkenny still the most inclined to fire the "punt" pass into their forwards and allow the likes of Colin Fennelly, Walter Walsh and TJ Reid to win their own ball.

That's a fierce amount of handpassing from Laois and to carry off that type of gameplan needs huge levels of fitness for the support play.

I'd say most hand and stick passes happen in working through the lines like most teams do now in attempts to avoid sweepers, deep lying half backs and the likes.



didlyi

Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.

johnnycool

Quote from: didlyi on October 28, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.

Don't get me wrong as the game last Sunday was hopefully an outlier exacerbated by the lack of atmosphere and we'll know more with the four games at Liam McCarthy level this weekend but there's always been a move to low risk, high percentages possession game and handpassing football like is a big part of that.

I can see the 2020 stats having even more handpassing and stick passing and less punts and I'm not keen on it either but sports like eveything evolve and sometimes not for the better.

Great scores are more important than high scores IMO and by that I mean the amount of effort, skill, bravery required to get it means a lot more to me than someone receiving a run of the mill handpass and tapping it over from 60 or 70 metres.
The great Tipp v KK game wasn't great because of the scoreline, it was great because of the epic battle at both ends of the field where scores were hard to come by and great defenders had a chance of preventing great forwards from scoring. Same with the epic Galway and KK games in 2012.
We've lost a bit of that but its early days yet.

Jeepers Creepers

Quote from: johnnycool on October 29, 2020, 10:24:46 AM
Quote from: didlyi on October 28, 2020, 02:03:03 PM
Johnny. I think it would be a dis service to all the players who ever played hurling for a team to get fit enough to play a handpassing game. The day that happens we can safely say Hurling has followed Football all the way to the slurry pit.

Don't get me wrong as the game last Sunday was hopefully an outlier exacerbated by the lack of atmosphere and we'll know more with the four games at Liam McCarthy level this weekend but there's always been a move to low risk, high percentages possession game and handpassing football like is a big part of that.

I can see the 2020 stats having even more handpassing and stick passing and less punts and I'm not keen on it either but sports like eveything evolve and sometimes not for the better.

Great scores are more important than high scores IMO and by that I mean the amount of effort, skill, bravery required to get it means a lot more to me than someone receiving a run of the mill handpass and tapping it over from 60 or 70 metres.
The great Tipp v KK game wasn't great because of the scoreline, it was great because of the epic battle at both ends of the field where scores were hard to come by and great defenders had a chance of preventing great forwards from scoring. Same with the epic Galway and KK games in 2012.
We've lost a bit of that but its early days yet.

Fully agree with the JC.

didlyi

And I agree aswell. Sure this weekend could be completely different especially given the weather forecast,  but in general over the last few years theres been alot of teams playing the quick ball to the free man and then shoot for score. For that we get high scores and in some cases at the same time lot of wides aswell. Limerick and Galway appear to do this the most IMO.

Milltown Row2

So we want:

50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession

As an ex manager, on the things above that's  not how I'd set my team up, it would be,  retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.

None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

marty34

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:

50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession

As an ex manager, on the things above that's  not how I'd set my team up, it would be,  retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.

You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!

johnnycool

Quote from: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:

50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession

As an ex manager, on the things above that's  not how I'd set my team up, it would be,  retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.

You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!

I want a deader sliotar that takes a bit more hurling to get it from one end of the field to the other.  LAds are flicking the current sliotars over from 60 to 70 metres. Yes, S&C has improved, but not that much.

IF and that's a big IF we see more referees blowing up the head high tackling, the overcarrying, the spare arm dragging and the dodgy handpassing this weekend then I think we may actually see a better game develop.
It'll take players and coaches time to understand that these things will be punished whereas in the recent past they haven't been and maybe coach tackling for the ball like the good Offaly teams with their flicks and interceptions were as good as anything to behold.

Now for some finches orange to wash down the hang sandwiches  ;D

Jeepers Creepers

Quote from: johnnycool on October 30, 2020, 12:19:54 PM
Quote from: marty34 on October 29, 2020, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 29, 2020, 08:08:14 PM
So we want:

50/50 balls into the forwards
No hand passes
Soloing into into tackles
No shooting if free
No scores from 60 yards
Poor possession

As an ex manager, on the things above that's  not how I'd set my team up, it would be,  retain possession, pass to team mate, shoot when free, don't take the ball into the tackle, lay it off to a player in a better position, take your points the goals will come.

You forgot the lads also want a white sliotar!!

I want a deader sliotar that takes a bit more hurling to get it from one end of the field to the other.  LAds are flicking the current sliotars over from 60 to 70 metres. Yes, S&C has improved, but not that much.

IF and that's a big IF we see more referees blowing up the head high tackling, the overcarrying, the spare arm dragging and the dodgy handpassing this weekend then I think we may actually see a better game develop.
It'll take players and coaches time to understand that these things will be punished whereas in the recent past they haven't been and maybe coach tackling for the ball like the good Offaly teams with their flicks and interceptions were as good as anything to behold.

Now for some finches orange to wash down the hang sandwiches  ;D

Good luck!

Milltown Row2

I thought that the ref did pull the hand pass a lot last week
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

didlyi

He did and rightly so. Its very difficult for refs to see what we can see on HD tv and expect him to know the difference between a ball that leaves the hand for 2mm before being palmed or a throw. Change it so that the ball must go from hurl to handpass or from one hand to the other hand for the pass. Problem solved and looks alot better too.

Milltown Row2

Quote from: didlyi on October 30, 2020, 02:16:35 PM
He did and rightly so. Its very difficult for refs to see what we can see on HD tv and expect him to know the difference between a ball that leaves the hand for 2mm before being palmed or a throw. Change it so that the ball must go from hurl to handpass or from one hand to the other hand for the pass. Problem solved and looks alot better too.

I agree on that, that's a clear passage of play
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea